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han2503
Should be a simple game, but you never know. After the mess we saw against Lazio I'm very apprehensive.

Will also probably miss this as I have a bbq to go to. Will watch the replay if we do well.
X-Offender
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 13 2017, 01:48 PM) *
EL probable line-up: Donnarumma; Musacchio, Bonucci, Romagnoli; Abate, Kessie, Biglia, Bonaventura, Antonelli; André Silva, Kalinic.
X-Offender
Now Mediaset has Calhanoglu as AM with Bona instead of Antonelli on the left.
Danny
QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 13 2017, 05:45 PM) *
Should be a simple game, but you never know. After the mess we saw against Lazio I'm very apprehensive.

Will also probably miss this as I have a bbq to go to. Will watch the replay if we do well.


Think of Milan if you should find a burnt sausage.
d'Arc.LP
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 13 2017, 10:45 PM) *
Now Mediaset has Calhanoglu as AM with Bona instead of Antonelli on the left.


I like this better.
Danny
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 13 2017, 08:45 PM) *
Now Mediaset has Calhanoglu as AM with Bona instead of Antonelli on the left.


Basically our strongest possible team, Suso and Cutrone aside.

Why no Conti, incidentally? Quite happy with Abate, fwiw.
d'Arc.LP
QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 14 2017, 03:08 AM) *
Basically our strongest possible team, Suso and Cutrone aside.

Why no Conti, incidentally? Quite happy with Abate, fwiw.


Sprained his right ankle when he was on duty with Italy NT.
Danny
Danke.
d'Arc.LP
QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 14 2017, 11:53 AM) *
Danke.


You're welcome.
X-Offender
Now they put Antonelli instead of Bona again. dry.gif
Danny
As much as I like Antonelli for what he gave us in recent years, he's not the standard for moving forward. Good enough squad option but should never be a first choice. Just like Borini.

That said, Jack looked 10 years older than he actually is when he came on. I've never seen him look so downtrodden. Could there be doubts about his attitude/temperament/mood?
d'Arc.LP
d'Arc.LP
HAKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN <3
Danny
Shiiiiiiiiiiiiit got my times wrong. Match has already started, we're one up - Hakan with the goal.
Ry4n
Good goal!
Ry4n
Good stuff.
d'Arc.LP
I just love Hakan Calhanoglu !!!
Fishdoll
Aaaand, this fish is still at work. ARGH. Am able to listen to RAI's radio commentary (actually a lot of fun, but good gosh do these guys speak Italian quickly.)

Will be seeing it on replay later tonight, though. Sounds much more encouraging than the game v Lazio.
d'Arc.LP
Give Hakan his position, he gives you the win !
Fishdoll
Atalanta is leading Everton 1-0. Goal Masiello off of a corner.

EDIT: make that 2-0. Goal Papu Gomez.

Edit 2: make that 3-0. Cristante
Fillipo Simone
Hakan at his best.

Typical for him. He is a talented guy, but he picks his games. When things go his way, he usually plays well and contributes. But he's got that strange habit of disappearing or playing terrible when things go south. Reminds me of Gourcuff, unquestionable talent, yet lacking effort and mental strength.
d'Arc.LP
Silva hat-trick !
Fishdoll
Much better indeed.
d'Arc.LP
OMG, what a goal by SUSO !!!
Ry4n
Different class , this game is over time to go to the gym. Next!
d'Arc.LP
FT 1-5 !
Danny
Without meaning to be too grumpy, Vienna are fourth in the Austrian Bundesliga. They are about the same as Crotone.

Atalanta put Everton away with ease as well.

Let's judge on league results, not the Consolation Cup.
han2503
Seems like it was another EL walkover from the comments here

What did you guys think of the team considering we were playing a back 3? Did they look okay? Saw the highlights, Zapata's defending on the corner was comical but other than that I didn't see any other defensive contributions on our part on the highlight reel

Will try to catch a replay tomorrow.

We'll see what we can do in the league next Sunday, that's the real test imo
Danny
Best we've defended since the last time we played a three.

And that wasn't a corner. As in, it was, but it was wildly outside the quadrant and was completely illegal.
X-Offender
QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 14 2017, 08:25 PM) *
Seems like it was another EL walkover from the comments here

What did you guys think of the team considering we were playing a back 3? Did they look okay? Saw the highlights, Zapata's defending on the corner was comical but other than that I didn't see any other defensive contributions on our part on the highlight reel

Will try to catch a replay tomorrow.

We'll see what we can do in the league next Sunday, that's the real test imo


Vienna were just poor on every level. We need to up the tempo of our play. More movement, quick passes and mutual understanding from the players is necessary if we wanna excel at higher levels. Because right now we're too static, and that might work against the Vienna's and Crotone's but not against a tougher opponent.

As for individual performances, Calhanoglu was super inspired tonight, especially in the first half. We haven't had a player with his passing and vision since Pirlo. I'm also in love with Silva's overall style of play. He has great technique and movements. If he can be as deadly in front of the goal as he was tonight then we have a champion in the making in our hands here.
d'Arc.LP
Vincenzo Montella believes a setback “did us good,” as Milan flattened Austria Vienna 5-1. “The hat-trick will boost Andre Silva’s confidence.”

The Rossoneri have won all five of their Europa League games this season, including the preliminary rounds, but this was their first match since the 4-1 Serie A loss at the Olimpico.

“Sunday’s defeat to Lazio was weighing on us, but today I liked the spirit and interpretation of the game,” Montella told Sky Sport Italia.

“The side played with pace, got the result under lock and key by half-time, then we saw the willingness to suffer and be solid. There was a slight drop in concentration levels after the restart, so we need to work on that, but we are happy with this victory.”

This was the first really successful test for the 3-5-2 formation, though Hakan Calhanoglu had a free role.

“We built this squad thinking of a three-man defence, but had to wait until Alessio Romagnoli was fully recovered.”


While Calhanoglu was inspirational, Andre Silva was the star of the show with a hat-trick.

“Silva is hungry and he scores goals. Today he was able to make the most of his characteristics, attacking the space. He seemed much better than in other games and this will really boost his confidence. He needed that.

“Calhanoglu had a great performance, he played vertical passes and set up goals for his teammates. We worked on the strikers pressing the opposition, and were more determined tonight.

“I think the defeat to Lazio did us good and we’ve got to feed this determination throughout the campaign.

“In other matches this season, we didn’t finish the job and therefore left the door open to our opponents. Tonight we changed that. It’s important to focus on mental strength and concentration throughout a game.”
X-Offender
I sure as hell hope Montella won't play Borini and Cutrone in the next league game.
Danny
QUOTE (d'Arc.LP @ Sep 14 2017, 10:21 PM) *

“We built this squad thinking of a three-man defence, but had to wait until Alessio Romagnoli was fully recovered.”


Lie.
Danny
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 14 2017, 10:18 PM) *
Vienna were just poor on every level.


Which is why this is yet another comfy win that's ultimately meaningless.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 15 2017, 11:23 AM) *
Lie.


Agreed. He just saw his system fall apart against Lazio and had to succumb to the pressure of playing with a 3-man defense.

QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 15 2017, 11:23 AM) *
Which is why this is yet another comfy win that's ultimately meaningless.


The win, perhaps, but at least we won't have to witness to that ugly 4-3-3 with Calabria, Borini and Cutrone anymore.
Danny
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 15 2017, 11:49 AM) *
Agreed. He just saw his system fall apart against Lazio and had to succumb to the pressure of playing with a 3-man defense.


It was comical - watching Abate cover Bonucci in the way a full back should when a CB is bypassed is the way to do it. Calabria was away in Hawaii when our backline was being attacked v Lazio.

QUOTE
The win, perhaps, but at least we won't have to witness to that ugly 4-3-3 with Calabria, Borini and Cutrone anymore.


Not sure about that - he could have selected Abate for Lazio but inexplicably went with the younger shiter version. And nothing wrong with Cutrone! Are you really dissing arguably our joint best player this season?! Agreed on Borini - I was more generous with him than the rest but he offers nothing in that position. Or any, really.

But yes, no more 4-3-3. We hope.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 15 2017, 02:47 PM) *
It was comical - watching Abate cover Bonucci in the way a full back should when a CB is bypassed is the way to do it. Calabria was away in Hawaii when our backline was being attacked v Lazio.



Not sure about that - he could have selected Abate for Lazio but inexplicably went with the younger shiter version. And nothing wrong with Cutrone! Are you really dissing arguably our joint best player this season?! Agreed on Borini - I was more generous with him than the rest but he offers nothing in that position. Or any, really.

But yes, no more 4-3-3. We hope.


Cutrone really offers nothing to our game. He's just a poacher who scores the easy goals. Silva and Kalinic are way better all-around strikers who contribute to much more.
Fishdoll
So what was the general opinion on Abate?

It appears we may be seeing quite a lot of him for the next few months.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Fishdoll @ Sep 15 2017, 03:23 PM) *
So what was the general opinion on Abate?

It appears we may be seeing quite a lot of him for the next few months.


Abate is good, always has been. But for RWB Conti is better. Bummer about his injury.
Danny
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 15 2017, 03:22 PM) *
Cutrone really offers nothing to our game. He's just a poacher who scores the easy goals. Silva and Kalinic are way better all-around strikers who contribute to much more.


I'm the one who gets absolutely panned around here for 'judging' after one game. Seems I'm not the only one guilty of it.
Danny
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 15 2017, 04:11 PM) *
Abate is good, always has been. But for RWB Conti is younger. Bummer about his injury.


Fixed that for you wink.gif
X-Offender
QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 15 2017, 06:23 PM) *
I'm the one who gets absolutely panned around here for 'judging' after one game. Seems I'm not the only one guilty of it.


You think Cutrone has an ounce of the technique that Silva or even Kalinic posses?

QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 15 2017, 06:23 PM) *
Fixed that for you wink.gif


You don't think Conti is a better RWB than Abate?
Danny
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 15 2017, 08:54 PM) *
You think Cutrone has an ounce of the technique that Silva or even Kalinic posses?


I think your dismissal of him after the start he's made is disappointing.

QUOTE
You don't think Conti is a better RWB than Abate?


I think claiming he is after a mere few appearances is insulting to Abate.

You seem eager to destroy anyone we didn't sign this summer.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 15 2017, 09:44 PM) *
I think your dismissal of him after the start he's made is disappointing.


He had a fantastic start, but I'm no stats man. I look at what a player contributes to the overall play. Cutrone's scoring rate has been great given he's just a Primavera kid, but you can't deny that he thrives on service. When there's no service, as it happened against Lazio, he practically becomes a non-player.

Kalinic and Silva have far superior technique, they are better at handling the ball and thus get more involved with the rest of the team. Hence why I prefer them over Cutrone.

QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 15 2017, 09:44 PM) *
I think claiming he is after a mere few appearances is insulting to Abate.

You seem eager to destroy anyone we didn't sign this summer.


Maybe you're not aware of the fact that I'm the biggest Abate fan here. But I know his limitations, especially when it comes to crossing, something Conti is really good at. Hence why I said he's the better RWB. I never said he's the better player overall, because I think Abate is much better defensively.
Danny
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 15 2017, 11:15 PM) *
He had a fantastic start, but I'm no stats man. I look at what a player contributes to the overall play. Cutrone's scoring rate has been great given he's just a Primavera kid, but you can't deny that he thrives on service. When there's no service, as it happened against Lazio, he practically becomes a non-player.

Kalinic and Silva have far superior technique, they are better at handling the ball and thus get more involved with the rest of the team. Hence why I prefer them over Cutrone.


If we're going with a 3-5-2 we're looking at any two of Kalinic, Cutrone, Silva and Suso up front. It's not quite MSN but it's not bad and I don't really want to dismiss any of these players for any reason.

I do find it intriguing you don't really want to be positive about his scoring rate; indeed, you're using the same argument against him as many did against Bacca. Are Milan fans against Inzaghi-style players now?

QUOTE
Maybe you're not aware of the fact that I'm the biggest Abate fan here.


*raises hand*

QUOTE
But I know his limitations, especially when it comes to crossing, something Conti is really good at. Hence why I said he's the better RWB. I never said he's the better player overall, because I think Abate is much better defensively.


To be a right wing back requires quality in both attack and defence. In truth it is barely any different to RB nowadays. So if you think one is better at defending and one is better at attacking then I'm a little confused as to why you would have a preference at all. For me I think both rotate nicely and both are fine options to have, game dependent.

And I'm yet to see Conti produce a good cross so I'll bow to your knowledge of him there.
amancik
QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 16 2017, 08:30 PM) *
Are Milan fans against Inzaghi-style players now?


I don't think Milan fans generally are against Inzaghi-style players. It's just that Inzaghi-style players are icing on the cake type of players. You can't have them as the main man leading the attack for the whole season. Inzaghi excelled because when we were playing with two strikers, Shevchenko was next to him. When we played Inzaghi as a lone striker, Kaka was behind him. My point is that Inzaghi was never the main 'threat' therefore the focus was not on him. These type of strikers, the more they are in the spotlight, the less effective they become and more so if he cannot receive services. But Kalinic and Silva both have something extra that they need not necessarily rely entirely on services from midfield.

So, do not dismiss Cutrone yet. There will be games where he will be exactly what we need. But for the long-haul, Kalinic and Silva should lead the line.
Danny
Bear in mind, neither of them have scored in Serie A for us. I think this sudden waxing lyrical about them is a bit premature tbh.

Neither has proven a thing, while Cutrone's scored plenty already.

I await the next Serie A match where one or both of Kalinic or Silva has a rubbish match and guys are suddenly screaming for Cutrone or saying the two of them suck.

Meh.
amancik
I don't disagree. Kalinic and Silva have yet to do anything in Serie A. But as I said, they have something more than Cutrone in terms of team play. In the long-run, you'd want that.

But again, like I said there will be times where we'll be screaming for Cutrone. So for the most part, I'd like to see Kalinic and Silva pairing with Calhanoglu pulling the strings behind them. Besides, I'd rather we not put too much pressure on Cutrone and let him develop slowly and surely.

I was one of those who wanted Cutrone to keep playing because he was on a hot streak so for me it was fair to give him the chance to continue that streak. But as we saw against Lazio, there are limitations to his game. Let me reiterate, his game. Not his talent.
Danny
As we saw against Lazio, there's limitations to the 4-3-3 used against a half decent team.

It had nothing to do with Cutrone.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 16 2017, 12:30 PM) *
If we're going with a 3-5-2 we're looking at any two of Kalinic, Cutrone, Silva and Suso up front. It's not quite MSN but it's not bad and I don't really want to dismiss any of these players for any reason.

I do find it intriguing you don't really want to be positive about his scoring rate; indeed, you're using the same argument against him as many did against Bacca. Are Milan fans against Inzaghi-style players now?


I'm not dismissing Cutrone, at all. I'm just saying Kalinic, Silva and Suso offer much more than just tap-in goals.

And if we really wanna talk about scoring rates, then Silva has the best of all our players, every 68 minutes on average.

QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 16 2017, 12:30 PM) *
To be a right wing back requires quality in both attack and defence. In truth it is barely any different to RB nowadays. So if you think one is better at defending and one is better at attacking then I'm a little confused as to why you would have a preference at all. For me I think both rotate nicely and both are fine options to have, game dependent.

And I'm yet to see Conti produce a good cross so I'll bow to your knowledge of him there.


Wingbacks have less defensive duties, I can't see how you say they barely differ from fullbacks. A fullback in principle is still a defender, whereas a wingback is a midfielder. Obviously both have to defend, but a wingback attacks more and defends less than a fullback.

Oh, and if you haven't seen Conti produce a good cross then maybe you haven't paid much attention to our games.
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