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Danny
He certainly was last season and the season before - became, thanks to some high-energy, action packed displays one of our biggest assets, valued by myself (and others) in the £50M bracket going by today's insane price tags.

But this season Prince has been without doubt the biggest disappointment in the squad. His limitations have been exposed, laid bare for all to see; with Ibra and quality players in midfield he was able to play to his strengths and they got the best out of him. Remove that level of player and suddenly Prince looks like a Pauper.

Allegri seems bewildered as to what to do with him: he lacks pace so he's not a winger. He lacks dribbling skill or creative vision so isn't a trequartista. Neither is he an AM or deep-lying playmaker, and he isn't reliable up front enough to be a striker.

Yet our beleaguered manager yesterday put him behind Pazzini and SES and seemed to instruct him to basically do what he wanted. Left wing, right wing, CM, even DM at times. Hell he was even spotted in our own box now and then.

The problem with Prince is he is a less dynamic and versatile version of a young Frank Lampard. A circle to box attacker who keeps the passes simple then bursts into the box to score a goal now and then. He is capable of remarkable moments of quality - that goal V Barca was stupendous and some of his goals in the distant past were top drawer. Problem is in this team, bereft of supporting quality, Prince is next to useless.

He can't create, he doesn't have the pace to support, and he can't swing in crosses.

At his best Prince lives up to his name. Right now he's a waste of a jersey (not totally his fault) and serves no purpose in this team.
X-Offender
Suddenly, my comments about him this summer, which you heavily criticized, don't seem that far-fetched anymore.
Danny
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Oct 21 2012, 01:57 PM) *
Suddenly, my comments about him this summer, which you heavily criticized, don't seem that far-fetched anymore.


If you were slagging off Prince's ability, then I had every right to criticise you. If you were saying he'd struggle in this new team structure, then you were most prophetic.

Which was it?
X-Offender
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Aug 19 2012, 10:50 PM) *
We clearly need another striker up front. Robinho alone is not enough. Very disappointed by Boateng so far. I think the guy's been hyped too much around here. A few spectacular goals don't make you a world class player. I really like what I'm seeing from Constant. The guy has class and works very hard. Nice addition.


I'm sure there was another post like this which you got annoyed at, but I couldn't find it. Anyway, I think my criticism describes Prince to a tee. He was never a word-class, £50M valuable player. He only played 45 out of 76 league games due to injuries in the past two seasons, and shined in half of those games due to Ibra's genius and a few spectacular goals here and there. Is he a bad player? No, but I think the hype got to him, especially that #10 jersey which doesn't suit him at all. Obviously the fact that the team is playing like crap doesn't help his cause, but if there's been one huge disappointment so far this season, that's KPB.
Danny
If you sum up Boateng of the past 2 seasons by a 'few spectacular goals' then I had absolutely every right to call you on it.

My criticism of him this season exposes his weaknesses, and points out that in this awful setup with a manager who is unable to deploy him properly then he is a waste of a jersey.

Of course with better players around him he'll play better - if you are using that as a criticism of the player then it applies to most world class players. Put them in the local pub select against a good team and they will struggle.

Boateng in the right setup, as he was last 2 seasons, was a magnificent asset to the team and every bit as valuable as any of the other marquee players in any club in any country.

But he isn't being used properly and that's exposed the weaknesses in his game. Every amazing player has weaknesses - Falcao lacks pace and is no use as anything other than a predatory finisher (albeit he is the best in the world at it). Messi is not the strongest and struggles when up against robust players (as he did against Inter and Chelsea).

I stand by this thread, and I stand by my criticism of your previous comments equally.
kurtsimonw
Never really reated him. Highlights player who does little to affect a game for the most part. If we got 15m/20m I'd drive him away myself.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 21 2012, 11:53 PM) *
If you sum up Boateng of the past 2 seasons by a 'few spectacular goals' then I had absolutely every right to call you on it.

My criticism of him this season exposes his weaknesses, and points out that in this awful setup with a manager who is unable to deploy him properly then he is a waste of a jersey.

Of course with better players around him he'll play better - if you are using that as a criticism of the player then it applies to most world class players. Put them in the local pub select against a good team and they will struggle.

Boateng in the right setup, as he was last 2 seasons, was a magnificent asset to the team and every bit as valuable as any of the other marquee players in any club in any country.

But he isn't being used properly and that's exposed the weaknesses in his game. Every amazing player has weaknesses - Falcao lacks pace and is no use as anything other than a predatory finisher (albeit he is the best in the world at it). Messi is not the strongest and struggles when up against robust players (as he did against Inter and Chelsea).

I stand by this thread, and I stand by my criticism of your previous comments equally.


If Boateng was this world class, £50M valuable player you make him out to be, then the team's poor form and the fact that he plays out of position should not have hindered his performances so drastically. Players of that calibre can overcome the difficulties and be themselves the one who take the squad by the hand. Yet the guy is totally lost. He can't make a decent pass, dribble the opponent or even shoot the goddamn target anymore. Against Lazio he hit rock bottom, totally disappearing from the game. I saw this coming in the pre-season, and now it's simply being confirmed. Boateng is just an average player, with a few flashes now and then. He performs well when the team performs well, and plays like crap when the team succumbs. Like Nocerino. Like Montolivo. And like many other players in our roster nowadays.
Danny
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Oct 22 2012, 02:22 AM) *
If Boateng was this world class, £50M valuable player you make him out to be, then the team's poor form and the fact that he plays out of position should not have hindered his performances so drastically.


I am not saying he's worth £50M, I am saying in this supersized market at his best, he is. If Hulk is worth around that (who, btw, has only scored once in Russia, despite the team's reasonable form and the fact he's playing IN position) then Boateng is. Truth is, of course, neither actually is worth that. Transfer fees are stupid.

Point is you seem to be taking a very, very black and white view of this. Boateng isn't playing well right now, so in your view that backs up your (imo) previous comments where you didn't rate him in the first place.

QUOTE
Players of that calibre can overcome the difficulties and be themselves the one who take the squad by the hand.


Care to explain Hulk then? Hasn't really done it yet in Russia despite the fact we all know him to be a superb player. Or are you going to make a claim that he's not very good either?
Don't tell me you think Axel Witsel is nothing special either?! Neither has really done that well in Russia - and given the above statement you made you can't use the league as an excuse.

QUOTE
Yet the guy is totally lost. He can't make a decent pass, dribble the opponent or even shoot the goddamn target anymore. Against Lazio he hit rock bottom, totally disappearing from the game. I saw this coming in the pre-season, and now it's simply being confirmed. Boateng is just an average player, with a few flashes now and then. He performs well when the team performs well, and plays like crap when the team succumbs. Like Nocerino. Like Montolivo. And like many other players in our roster nowadays.


I consider your reply lacking in conviction. You've never rated Boateng, a choice you made some time ago. That's fine, but the problem is your arguments don't prove anything - the same logic can be used to smear other great players who struggle if so desired.

Decent pass - never really could carve up defences. Dribble - never been a forte. Shoot - yes, that is one area he's struggled badly where normally he excels. And the curious thing is you say 'any more'. That rather backs up what I am saying, that the circumstances are affecting him as much as anything.

I don't disagree he is lost, but I disagree his own ability has everything to do with it. And seeing it coming in pre-season doesn't prove much either - I saw the entire team struggling given pre-season performances. I hardly deserve a cookie for noticing that losing about 800 top class players might impact on the season ahead and the potential contribution impact of those left at the club.

When Pato came on, he was agony to watch. Yet we know how good he has potential to be. What's your excuse for him?
Danny
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Oct 22 2012, 12:49 AM) *
Never really reated him. Highlights player who does little to affect a game for the most part. If we got 15m/20m I'd drive him away myself.


That's right, because with us losing all these players, including selling Ibra and Silva for about 70M, we can afford to just sell more players and Silvio WILL reinvest in the squad...

I feel you are both missing the point.

If we overhauled the system, got a manager in who plays to the squad's strengths, guys like Boateng would shine again.

I can't actually believe anyone would suggest he cannot affect a game when he has won several practically alone in the past.

Meh, I guess this thread highlights how different opinions become magnified when things go badly on the pitch.
Jack Sparrow
For me this team has a HUGE gap in technical quality. We do not have players in our mid-field who are 'masters' of anything. What we have is (and I blame it a little on Allegri's gameplay mentality) in-betweens. Players like Nocerino (not a DM, not a creative/defensive box-to-box), Prince, Flamini(what happened to him sad.gif ), Traore- if our best mid-field player is Montolivo...then something is wrong.

It's like our mid-field is a a bunch of construction workers and a foreman (Montolivo), but no architect - and they're trying to build something.

Is Prince responsible? Well third of it is his form, another third of it is his ego which forces him to try the spectacular instead of making the percentage plays, then there is a third of it which is Allegri putting him in a position which no longer suits him, since he cannot play off Ibra anymore.

Ibra's departure is now affecting us more than Silva's (as I worried, but kept in denial). Silva's leaving hurt us 'emotionally', but we could still have progressed with Ibra dragging us onwards. Ibra leaving meant essentially Noce, Prince and to some extent Robinho have become useless. Not to mention the added stress on our fullbacks to create which means we're funked defensively.
Danny
All very fair comments Jack.

You're spot on about the width issue. I'm not saying Antonini, De Sciglio and Abate are terrible, they aren't. I think the latter 2 are our best FBs on the left and right respectively, but they are no Janku or Cafu - they're not even Serginho. We have feeble width because neither of our best FBs really excel at it. And they're all we have.

I mean christ I saw bloody Pazzini at one point on the left wing. tbh he actually did ok for the time he was there but if we're resorting to him up there we're really in trouble.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 22 2012, 07:23 AM) *
I am not saying he's worth £50M, I am saying in this supersized market at his best, he is. If Hulk is worth around that (who, btw, has only scored once in Russia, despite the team's reasonable form and the fact he's playing IN position) then Boateng is. Truth is, of course, neither actually is worth that. Transfer fees are stupid.

Point is you seem to be taking a very, very black and white view of this. Boateng isn't playing well right now, so in your view that backs up your (imo) previous comments where you didn't rate him in the first place.

Care to explain Hulk then? Hasn't really done it yet in Russia despite the fact we all know him to be a superb player. Or are you going to make a claim that he's not very good either?
Don't tell me you think Axel Witsel is nothing special either?! Neither has really done that well in Russia - and given the above statement you made you can't use the league as an excuse.


I don't understand why you are bringing Hulk in the discussion. It doesn't matter whether their situations are similar, we are strictly talking about Boateng here. The problem is that you consider Boateng to be a marquee player, and I simply can't agree with that. Plain and simple.

QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 22 2012, 07:23 AM) *
I consider your reply lacking in conviction. You've never rated Boateng, a choice you made some time ago. That's fine, but the problem is your arguments don't prove anything - the same logic can be used to smear other great players who struggle if so desired.

Decent pass - never really could carve up defences. Dribble - never been a forte. Shoot - yes, that is one area he's struggled badly where normally he excels. And the curious thing is you say 'any more'. That rather backs up what I am saying, that the circumstances are affecting him as much as anything.

I don't disagree he is lost, but I disagree his own ability has everything to do with it. And seeing it coming in pre-season doesn't prove much either - I saw the entire team struggling given pre-season performances. I hardly deserve a cookie for noticing that losing about 800 top class players might impact on the season ahead and the potential contribution impact of those left at the club.


I never rated Boateng? Then you clearly haven't read any of my posts regarding him in these two past seasons. I rated Boateng for what he was to us: a utility player that took advantage of Ibra's magic and raised his status within the team. Now that Ibra's gone, we're finally seeing Pricer's true colors. Even though I believe he's much better than this, he's not the overhyped player you make him out to be either. At least, that's my opinion.

QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 22 2012, 07:23 AM) *
When Pato came on, he was agony to watch. Yet we know how good he has potential to be. What's your excuse for him?


Pato hasn't played a single, full game with us in months. That's my excuse for him.
William405
And at least Pato knew how to pass the ball wink.gif.

I'm not saying now that Boateng is a horrible player, but it seems that he needs a definite set-up or he seems to fail miserably.
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