Very good disciplined performance from him today.

Agreed. This is what I like about him, a very disciplined player, an aggressive one but doesn't make rash tackles.

Yep, he doesn't over commit himself, very clean on the ball, doesn't try stupid sh!t and very tactically aware. Did he even make a foul today?

According to ESPN: 1 assist, 1 offside, 2 fouls drawn and 0 fouls commited.

No fouls committed? That's great. It reflected in the game as well. Although we played very defensively, but the match was clean throughout.

He'll be huge for us I can feel it. And this will undoubtedly push both Ambro and Rino out, THANK GOD!

+1

He did remarkably well tonight

He's on his way to show Flamini the exit door.

first game in CL. couldnt have asked for more.. im liking him

Can't believe we signed this guy for 500 k. Wow!!

I can't believe we did not have a thread for him before today. We need more guys of this type!

You mean Gattuso.

I think he meant Gattuso AND Ambrosini.

All 3 can leave next summer.


I wanted to open it a while ago but I get: "Sorry, you do not have permission to start a topic in this forum"

Doubled. They can take Seedorf with them too, if we sign a proper creative player. Apart from Flamini, all of them had their time in the sun, and enjoyed it. Now it's time to shake hands and move on.


Yup. "Helpers". I think we should have a standard template for player threads, a fixed set of information that should be filled in. Blue and Ash do them regularly, a few others too. You know just a few videos, images, history, stats, etc, so general members can get an idea of the new guy.

When I opened the thread it asked for certain information to be filled in about the player. I just figured it'd be put into the opening post or something so didn't bother doing it myself.

Oh, no problem! You most definitely opened it up in a hurry, after the match. I was talking more about the time we open up a player thread once we sign him up, since well all player stuff goes in their respective threads, anyway. While in other forums, people are free to open new threads up on the team players, anytime they feel like.

No, I mean Flamini. I'm not sure either Gattuso or Ambro will leave next summer, but it's irrelevant to me as long as they stay as bench players. On the other hand, if Nocerino continues to do as he did yesterday, there will be no need for the expensive Flamini; I think we could instead go for a cheaper and better DM or even finally introduce Strasser.

Strasser is more of an anchor type DM. Anyway, if we cut his wages by half then Flamini can stay, he's still a great squad player to have, a hell of a lot better then Rino or Ambro, because if they stay, then they'll play. And that is just not an option anymore.

Next season, if VB continues to play as he is, I only want him + Seedorf and Nesta to renew (should they want to) all are still very useful. Nesta just put in a masterclass performance against Messi FFS. Seedorf again, is still a great squad player to have, while VB is still a top notch DM

Rino and Ambro should definately be shown the exit door. Zambro isn't as critical he's a good squad player, definately better then Bonera.

Next summer we need to clean house of the baggage big time. Especially if we manage to bring in Montolivo, Ganso, etc

We'll see. I don't care or want to discuss the departure of the veterans, it is IMO unrelated. But I really think we don't need Flamini anymore. Nocerino played yesterday very good, if he continues like this, he'll surpass Flamini with no problem. Thing is - I'd like Ambro to stay as much as he's up to; he is still our captain.

Rino should obviously leave. But the problem with Flamini is, unlike Ambro, he does not have a special role in the team, nor is he fresh enough to be considered a future starter. I think all in all he's a mistake, and we should move on and try out something different. I see the potential in him, but it appears to me that this is a typical case of player potential and club expectations on collision resulting the player to appear worse then he really is. All we have out of him are a few flashes of good appearances and that's, what, after 3 years with Milan?

It's just like Podolski and Bayern. No, Milan should move on, it's not a money thing, it isn't an age thing either.

You want Ambro to stay? Have you watched him play lately?

He's on the same level as Rino and I don't care if he's captain, someone else will fill that role. Did you see the difference between him and Nesta yesterday? That is a captain's performance, not Ambro disappearing for the majority of the game and only showing up when he's hacking someone down or making an aweful pass in a dangerous area

Yesterday Ambro was dreadful, he almost cost us a goal. But that's not exactly the point - yesterday we played against the best team in the world. I still believe he can do good against teams like Lecce or Pilsen, that's all. I rate him above Rino; he wasn't superb against Lazio, but not that bad either.

We agree that he's old and should be played rarely, but with his role as captain I'd rather we keep him just as an extra, and release Rino and Flamini.

Barca or Lecce, I don't really care. He should know better, he's supposed to be an experianced player. And I don't want him on unless it's a Coppa game.He's been bad in pre-season as well.

And you saying you'd rather keep him ahead of Flamini to me is equivelant to Chu saying he want to keep Ambro and Rino ahead of Pirlo

Ambro was never a true captain, and he just doesn't fulfill that role. Someone better will step in next season, what's the point of keeping him as captain when he's never playing anyway?

Keeping Ambrosini for games vs Lecce is pointless, because A it's better to use a promosing DM for it, and B you probably need 1 DM on the pitch anyway. There's no point in keeping Ambrosini even longer, same goes for Gattuso obviously.

May it be...but you skip the Flamini part. I'm talking about him, and not Ambro or Rino which you mixed into this discussion. Why would Flamini be of any use? He hasn't got the first team experience, he's never manged to play 3 matches as a starter in a row, he's never managed to maintain a good form trend longer then 2 matches in a row. Why on earth should we stick to Flamini when the signature of Nocerino showed us that we can find a cheap, not-so-much earning, equally good/better and younger, less injury prone, defensive midfielder? What possible explanation would fit?

Now, the bolded part, that's offensive man, don't talk like that

And one more thing about Ambrosini. You may never accepted him as captain, but try to understand that many Milan fans actually did. I still think he's of use for us in the locker-room. My point is, I don't see any urge to push the veterans out of the team unless they are blocking someone else. The day I realized Rino being played over and over again yet reaching bottom, I accepted that it's for the best for him to leave. Same goes for some other players as well. But players like Pippo, Ambro or Zambrotta, who are hard workers and have experience, but don't present a major handicap for our budget...they are free to leave or stay, I don't mind.

Promising DM? Where's the promising DM?

Strasser and Calvano.

How is Ambro useful exactly? He's just not anymore, it's plain as day, maybe he doesn't make it obvious as Rino does by tackling Nesta, but the fact that I only notice that he's on the pitch when he's fouling someone says it all. Why keep him? He'll help in the dressing room? If we want someone to help in the dressing room then it would be more feasable to keep Rino then Ambro, at least he motivates the team more then Ambro does.

I never mentioned Zambro as being one who should leave. He still has something to offer, and as a rotation option, not many teams would have that kind of luxury. Aside from that momentary laps when he thought 3 players would actually stop Messi so he took his eye off Pedro, he was perfect last night. That's why I'm ok with him, Seedorf and Nesta staying on. I don't care about their age, they still have something to offer to the team, while Ambro and Rino simply do not.

Also, he's not a financial burden? Check again, he earns more then the majority of our best players. And that is the most ridiculous thing I saw in that wage list next to Rino earning a hefty 4m

Again Calvano. Don't you think he would have been picked by Allegri for the CL list if he was any good? How many times did you watch Calvano play?




You see what I mean? I ask you about Flamini, and here you go again talking about Ambro.

Let's be fair. You don't like Ambro, I don't like Flamini. Both are getting more and more useless. I've got a fixation on team captains and value him to the right end only because of this, and because I still can see his contribution. What's your excuse for Flamini ?


Now you're being unfair. Sorry the most ridiculous thing beside Rino, or even above Gattuso's wages, is Flamini.

My only excuse is that these days, he's better. It's simple really, it shouldn't be a rocket science, and if we're going to keep one of the 3, then that has to be Flamini

Flamini's wages were justified when we brought him, it's the club's probem that they didn't re-negotiate a longer and less financially weighing contract with him. Ambro and Rino's deals have recently been renewed. And that is why it's so ridiciulous. Giving Ambro that kind of money when Nesta accepted the 2m deal.

You see, again you're not objective enough. How come Flamini's wage is the clubs problem, but Ambro and Rino's isn't? Doesn't make any sense. But yes, I do know why Matteo has such a darn wage sum. But anyway,...


Naah, that's a very very lame excuse, near to the one I made for Ambro. In fact, let me play a bit with you logic: Ambro is useless but Flamini isn't because he's better then useless. So, if you exclude Ambro from the equation, you've got Flamini who's the worst of all (not counting Rino for anything). And then what?

Again, my point is Flamini is okay, but why bother with a reconvalescent DM that never showed up and negotiate a reduced wage when you can easily find an replacement for him?

All of it is the club's problem at the end of the day, but Ambro's contract was just renewed with that amount, while Flamini always had that deal since he came for free. Giving Ambro and Rino those kind of contracts were huge mistakes, giving them 3m while they sit on the bench or make idots out of themselves on the pitch.

Next summer we could be looking at some major changes, signing on Flamini would mean one less headache since we'll need to buy at least 5 players imo if we want to be competitive, especially if Zambro, Seedorf and Nesta don't renew

Does this mean you agree on Strasser? So that's 1 already, which I find a shame already the little he has played for Milan so far (and will since he won't this season) because of such players we are mentioning. So we got 1 or 2, that's enough reason already. Who wants to see Gattuso struggling rather than seeing Strasser play and develop?

Calvano doesn't have to be on the CL list, he fits in the youth list so he can play anyway. So that really says literally nothing. I have seen Calvano close to never, but it's based on what I hear from others and Allegri does have included him sometimes in the squad. He's still very young and simply is seen as a promising player. Nothing more or less. It's not like I say he has world class potential or so. But there must be a reason why I often hear he is either the most promising and/or best Primavera player or one of the.

Though as long as a young player haven't had some games for the firs team you never can say too much. It's one thing to do well in Primavera and an other for the first team. So he simply must get his chance to show it at Milan's first team, and then we can judge him. In Primavera he apparently earned to get that chance, and there are not much better opportunities for that then when facing a team like Lecce.

But even without Calvano, we got Strasser who I do know, and I rate him. Van Bommel (if he keeps it up), Nocerino and Strasser are already three DM's should be in Milan's squad next season. And if Van Bommel doesn't keep it up and leaves, we must sign a replacement for him anyway. So we keep 3, and the 4th simply would be pointless to be a signing or declining players like Gattuso and Ambrosini. Better use your most promosing DM from Primevara then, those few times he is needed anyway. The more chances you give to your youngsters the better chance you have at raising excellent players yourself. We do that too little now. So many old players from which many are not obvious better than young players, or may be even worse. No, if it's that close, go for young, since they will become better and actually need to play to be able to become better.

typo (last sentence)

I think Seedorf could very well be playing his last season, not only with Milan, but in football general. Nesta and Zambro should renew, we need them around, especially if Ambro, Rino and Clarence won't be around.

Yes, it might appear handy keeping Flamini, but only with a substantially reduced wage. What about Abbiati, he ain't gonna be there for ever as well? Yes, next summer will be crucial, and I hope our financial situation won't lead us into a position were we are forced to sign extensions rather then replace the veterans.

And? If a hypothetical worst player in the world existed and he was our captain, would you still want him to remain? Ambrosini is no Baresi or Maldini, his departure wouldn't really cause any turmoil inside the locker room. I'd rather have Nesta wear the armband, he truly is the finest example of a true rossonero captain.

Great!

Next season there's the possibility of loosing both Rino and Ambro as captain. I think Ambro's role has been always underestimated. Sure he ain't Baresi and Maldini, but who is? Nesta never seemed be comfortable as Milan captain, I think it's a Lazio story. Then you have Clarence who'll be leaving also maybe. And after Nesta, which isn't that far away, I don't see a possible candidate.

Merkel

You must be joking, right?

I have no reasons to believe he isn't. In fact, I'd be very surprised if Merkel ever wears the armband. Even if the guy playes regularly we'll probably sign up an Italian NT starter or two that will get the nod ahead of him mosf of the time. But yeah, our captaincy mojo is running very low these past few years - I dread to think what the future holds.

I think the club is rather stable, we might not win season in - season out, and we might not be the club with multimillion stacked up as transfer kitty .. But we are the club that has a very stable management, which has been very rational and you never feel any sense urgency from the club's hierarchy.

Milan has been through some rough patches, yet this management has always proved that the wind will still blow against the sail's of this club. There will always be moments of transition, but also there will be moments of success. Hence I don't think you should be anxious about what the future holds

Ho ho, saying our management has been stable is going overboard, mate. Sure, we're not as deep in financial problems as, say, Inter or Manchester City, but the last 3-4 years have been anything but satisfying. Of course, like you said, there will always be moments of transition, but to me it looks like we're stuck in that we can't seem to ensure a promising future to ourselves. We're still holding onto legends of the past decade. I dread the possibility that our board could once again renew the contracts of those players that should have already been let go this summer. And such a possibility is directly related to the fact that we barely invest any longer. We always look for cheap options and leftovers. Our determination in being the great AC Milan has gone down the drain. Now we're just struggling to survive as a club.

My post was exactly targeting the likes of you .. Those who believe the management is taking the club below its standards. Weren't they the ones who set the standards for this club in the first place? And if not for their 'wise' management we would have been long gone as a club, probably split in two with one part bankrupt.

Your post above paints a story of the management trying effortlessly in taking this club down. As if blinded by 'legends of the past decade' .. Regardless of their track record in presenting the team with strong players that provide the difference time and again.

Struggling to survive as a club ?? Seriously, is it all gloom and doom on your side of the spectrum? In the past two years, didn't you notice a shift in transition? A shift that got us a Scudetto? Or was that just Ibra and a strike of luck?

Regardless, it is based on your vision ... Are you looking at short-term results? If so, then you probably will find matters that will validate your post above. However, if you take a long-term vision and assess the club 26 years ago to-date, you will find your post doesn't weigh a grain of salt.

Yeah, well I don't disagree with you, but really the winds of change are definitely blowing. Not even in the right direction too. I mean, I'm all for diversity, but a solid Italian core is still needed. It's just falling apart, not just at Milan, but Italian NT too. I mean, Paloschi is the best that we can put up?!

If there is a darth of talent, then we are part of the problem for not nuturing it up. Any 12-year-old is the same in any country, a raw diamond. It's up to the people responsbile in the higher seat to polish the kid. Any kid. All kids. So that in a few years time, one, two or three are ready for the big fights in the first XI. Sure, balance it all up by signing up champinons from other leagues/countries. But really, no point in losing your identity.

When I said future, I did not mean it just as club success, because, really, we'll always be there and around at the top. If not in Europe, then domestically, at least. Unless something very, very drastically goes wrong. And well the lack of quality home grown talent means something just did.

Times change, my friend. How can you expect a management to retain high standards for 26 years? It's impossible. We had our ups and downs during the Berlusconi era, but we always managed to get back on our feet due to the generous investments of our owner. Right now, however, I don't see it happening. We stopped being competitive after we won our last Champions League. Since then, we've been mocked and ridiculed plenty of times, on both national and European grounds.

The answer may appear simple, really. It's all about investing after all, no? Well, it's about investing wisely. The lack of champions and the over-abundance of elder players is destroying this team. We need a rejuvenation as soon as possible. We must change strategy entirely, and put our absolute faith in youngsters. And I don't mean unproved youngsters, but players that can guarantee you a certain level of success in the long-term. There's plenty of interesting assets out there. However, if you don't splash the cash and believe in what you're acquiring, then it's all fruitless. No crazy signings, no. I would never want us to spend €45 million for someone like Falcao or Aguero. That is downright crazy and illogical. But if we can't afford even the likes of Montolivo, Eriksen, Ganso, Cissokho etc. then tell me how exactly is this management trying to get us back on our feet again? By renewing the contracts of the Seedorf's and the Ambrosini's and the Gattuso's and the Dida's and the Oddo's etc? Because this is exactly what we've been doing for the last 3-4 years.



Of course our last scudetto was a strike of luck! What did you think, that we dominated and played flawless football all season long? We were brilliant only during scraps of periods, but in reality we were struggling to find an identity that we found and lost many times in the process. I can generalize our triumph as a mixture of luck, the Ibrahimovic factor and the declining competition in the Serie A.

Last season we didn't face any threats at all. Not because we were too strong, but because there was no-one there to challenge us. Inter, Juventus and Roma had an awful season, not on par with expectations. Only Napoli tried to scare us off, but even they fell, considering their emergence is only recent and not yet complete. Our worth last season was proved in the Champions League. Out of all qualified clubs from the group stages, we had the least amount of points (8), and we were defeated in the first knock-out round by a mediocre team like Tottenham. It was our third consecutive elimination in the round of 16.

I think you lack the experience to see the big picture. I trust the management that has done well in 20 and more years, and I think R7 is relying on his experience as well. I don't see it as fatal as you see it - I don't think we're struggling.

Simply said: no. It's much more then investing right or wisely. It's marketing, business, preparation, keeping a balanced financial situation and adapting. We've become lately very unflexible, but it still is just a transitional phase IMO. I think a lot will change in football in let's say a decade or so. The gigantic transfer sums, the millions of Euros debts - all that has to break at some point. And as I see it, our management will be or is preparing us for those times.