It's a very important topic in football world today and I thought it should have a separate thread so we can discuss it.

What do you think?


Blatter: '6+5' rule is crucial 7 May 2008


Report Finds That FIFA's '6+5 Rule’ Breaks No EU Regulations 27 Feb 2009


'Yes in principle to 6+5 rule' 5 February 2008

I think it's nonsense. If you can do any other job as EU-citizen in an EU-country without an extra permission a football player should have that right as well.

+1. Besides if UEFA is so concerned about all this, they should try and help out the mid table and smaller clubs, both with their finances as well as improving the quality of their game.

Looks like I'm going to be the loyal opposition on this one too. I think it's a good idea that will help strengthen the national games of respective FIFA member countries. It'll force clubs to actually look at their (and their country's) youth systems rather than buying foreign imports because they're cheaper and it's easier to do. I don't think it's completely protectionist either, as the rule is calling for 6 players to be eligible to play for that country's NT. Doesn't say a thing about the other 5 or any subs who might come on later in the game. In short, I think the Bosman ruling has not been good in the long run for the sport.

I'm with Tennie on this one. The rule doesn't say non-EU players are banned from playing. Just that they can't start.

Surely 6 local players in a team of 11 are not too much to ask. In fact the team can even end with 3+8 players. With 8 being the non-nationals.

It is the only way clubs will focus on the youth system, and we can break free of the stranglehold that unlimited funds has. Otherwise, there is no way the rich clubs shall ever be dethroned.

That's true. But according to EU-regulations companies aren't allowed to treat their workers any different than the native workers, which would be the case when the 6+5 rule will be in power.

Yes, but that report says something about it. Since there is no way a company can implement the same guidelines without it being direct discrimination.

The non-nationals will not be discriminated on the basis of salary or anything. This would come out in the 'interests of sporting welfare' or some technical term like that and that's not illegal.

All for it.

I don't see how having a possible 11 out of 18 players in the squad being foreign is "limited job opportunity" for them. I think UEFA needs to push very hard for this, but unfortunately with the way the World is today, the minority has more power, so I see it as very unlikely that it'll ever happen.

I'm opposed to this idea in the sense that its a sport, which people pay for to watch, therefore the best should play. But i can agree on several points in favor of this because arsenal and inter are very good examples of where football is headed and even I personally dont want to see that happening to milan or any other clubs.

Does anybody think about the poor non-EU players who may better than the home-grown EU players but are supplanted by EU players under the 6+5 rule?

Yup. There will be huge losses for people all over the world if this occurs. In terms of the quality of football in a general standard.

I don't feel sorry for foreigners in this at all, if they lose out, good, so they should. What about all the home ntionals missing out on jobs at the moment because there are so many foreigners in the country? Think what you want of it, bu a country should ALWAYS look after it's own people first, in my opinion.

@ Kurt

This rule could weaken the EPL more than any other league, don't you have a problem with it?




PS: +1 @ Tennie, Jack and Kurt. I'm all for it and I pray it is legislated asap.

I don't really think so.

United could easily field 6 or 7 home based players and win the league - it also depends on whether people from Wales, Scotland and NI (those with a British passport) will be considered home grown or not. Ronaldo is probably their best player, but Ferdinand, Carrick and Rooney are certainly all in their top 5.

Chelsea could pretty much just about field 6 home based players next season when Scott Sinclair comes back, who's no worse than Malouda, so I'm sure he'll start. Lampard is their best player by a distance, I'd say probably 3.4 of their top 5 are al English.

Liverpool is Steven Gerrard. Even Torres is having a bad year, he's always injured and doesn't exactly score many goals when he does play, Chelsea and Boro at home are about the only good games he's had. They might struggle, but they don't exactly have many foreign 'stars' to speak of. Torres.. can you think of another big name they have?

Villa regularly field about 8 English players anyways, so it wouldn't effect us at all really. If anything it'd be good for us, because English players would be more in demand and we could basically get any kind of money we want for them.

Arsenal would struggle, they'd need to buy in English.

I think people use the EPL and foreigners to fit their arguement most of the time. People wil say the EPL is over-rated and crap.. then when people say it's great, they say "only because of the foreigners".. make your mind up! Home based players, 99% of the time, will be the best players in the league in my opinion, mainly because of the style of play. I also think the national team has improved because Capello is allowing England to play like a Premier League team, rather than wanting us to pass the ball around and keep posession. He's playing to our strengths and it's working.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/8/main/2009/03...six-plus-five-r

A little bit too anti-English, but I agree with 90% of it.

Seriously...I can't say how strong I object this "6+5" idea. it's so totally xenophobic. When I read this guys text I can't stop but to think of Samuel Huntington.... "clash of cultures". OMG, are we living in the 30ies or what? What are the poor players from eastern Europe going to do when this rule is in effect? Most of them won't be able to play in the leagues of western Europe where the money is as this rule will change everything.
I'm always in favor of buying homegrown players. But to achieve this by force? It would be like saying "Our players aren't good enough to compete with those from other countries..." That's absolutely not what my understanding of "Fair play" is.

What about those 'poor' youth players, La Palma??

LaPalma, I have to ask.. how is it xenophobic? Foreign players are still able to be bought by clubs, it's just a way of making teams progress their youth teams, essentially making sure every country improves its youth academies, which will ensure the improvement of football around the World.

I suppose it depends on the individual though. I for one believe that my local community is the most important thing, then my country, then everywhere else. Which is why I will never give to a Worldwide charity, my country needs help as it is. This is also what I'd like to see bought into football. At the moment youth academies of Premier League clubs are only allowed to sign English players living within a certain distance of the club, which means kids will usually play for their local teams. The 6+5 rule will then be the next step up which is looking after your own country - meaning English players at English clubs. People may disagree, but I think it's the way forward.

As for the ruling itself.. I really disagree with people thinking it'd weaken England. Didn't Milan have 0 Italians in their lineup a few months ago? Don't Inter only have 2 or 3 regular Italians? Only Arsenal would really get effected by this in terms of pretty much needing new players. One thing that will happen more, is young players at top clubs being given more of a chance. The early 90s is a great example as to what could happen in the future. English football was at a low so foreign players simply just weren't interested in coming here, so English teams were forced to bring through their youth players and that hardly went badly. The Nevilles, Butt, Giggs, Scholes, Beckham and Sharpe were all given chances at United, along with Hansens infamous "You'll never win things with kids comment" and United went on to be one of the most dominant teams in history. Liverpool bought through McManaman, Redknapp, Fowler, Owen, Carragher and Gerrard, these guys went onto to win tonnes of things. If anything, it will be good for English football, Chelsea and United are basically built around English players as it is, Liverpool are essentially a one-man team and could put anyone around Gerrard and still be as they are now. The next tier of teams, Everton, Villa and Spurs are full of English players.. so I fail to see where we'll get hurt here. The Premier League would stay as it is, I feel, but our national team would see more players coming through, so I pray for this to go through.

I'll answer your posts in some hours when I'm back from the Bochum vs. Bayern match.

(Fishdoll FORZA BOCHUM!)

What about them? Why should we say "oh you guys aren't as good as the foreign youth players so we are going to give you a handicap in order to play in the top clubs"

Heres a good example.


Why should arsenal buy english youth players when their foreigners are 10x better. Would you rather have peter crouch or samuel eto in your club?


Just because england have more money and are able to buy great young foreigners doesn't mean they should be punished because italians or spanish cannot do the same.


Clubs are meant for clashes of the best vs the best. Not countries vs countries. Inter vs manchester is not italy vs england. Its the club inter vs manchester united. If you guys want to see england vs italy watch the world cup or the euro.



I doubt the euro council would allow such a thing. Every other job has free borders between all countries in the European union. Football is no different.

+1 thank you la palma. Finally someone who sees the other side!

Who says foreign youngsters are 10× better than local youngsters?

I think the only reason foreigners (even the lame ones) look better right now is because local youngsters are being unfairly overlooked...

Well, there are "pour" youth players in every country of Europe. Those in the nations with less infrastructure will surely suffer a lot more from this rule than those in England, Spain, Italy, Germany...
It's not fair when a kid from Poland doesn't have the same chances to make to, let's say the EPL, than a British youngster. Plus, why does his friend, who's a industrial worker, have better chances to work in England than our football player?


Yes, they are still able to play in England, but they have worse chances than natives. And that's an antagonism in the European Union. Same chances for any citizen of the European Union in any country of the European Union. Why shouldn't this apply to football? One thing we should have learned from the Bosman ruling is: Football is a job market like any other.

About foreigners in EPL. I know that EPL and the Bundesliga are the leagues with the biggest share of foreigners. So, I just looked up how many teams would have played in accordance to Blatters new idea last weekend (starting line-ups only). Those are shown in bold.

Chelsea - 8 foreign players
City - 8 foreign players
Tottenham - 6 foreign players
Villa - 3 foreign players
ManUnited - 8 foreign players
Liverpool - 9 foreign players
Boro - 7 foreign players
Portsmouth - 3 foreign players
Sunderland - 8 foreign players
Wigan - 6 foreign players
Hull city - 6 foreign players
Newcastle - 6 foreign players
Arsenal - 10 foreign players
Blackburn - 8 foreign players
Bolton - 6 foreign players
Fulham - 6 foreign players
Everton - 5 foreign players
Stoke City - 7 foreign players

So..it's exactly three teams (good for you Villa is one of them Kurt ) matched the rule. 120 foreigners were played, which means that more than 54% percent of the EPL players last weekend are not allowed to play for the English NT. I think this process can't be revised that easily.
And will this rule improve football around the world by boosting youth academies? Probably not, because
1. This rule only is only in charge within the range of the UEFA. (EDIT: Does it? )
2. Countries in eastern Europe, Africa, northern Europe will get in serious trouble. They need the money the receive for transferring their best players to the big leagues in western Europe to refinance their own youth academies. And the clubs from those league will probably think twice then before buying a foreign player. So it will only strengthen countries with a big league and good infrastructure (football wise that is).

Don't get me wrong. I think that a league should always reflect the country they play in. And I, like any other fan, like to see local players in Bochum and Milan (although Bochum doesn't have too many ). And I understand every club who's concept it is to play mainly local/homegrown players. But FIFA shouldn't make this happen by force.


I can't see where this is the case. On the contrary: Fans and officials always want local youngsters which grants them chances someone from a foreign country would never get

My thoughts exactly.


Interesting list. So last weekend only 3 teams would get through with the rule.. but look at how many teams are on 6/7 and could easily make the grade. The only teams I worry for in the Premier League are Arsenal, Liverpool and Man City!


I understand what you're getting at. I think it will probably only affect UEFA club, though that's somewhat irrelevant since clubs in other regions are generally filled with home grown players anyways, so they'd fit in with the rule whether it applies to them or not.

I agree that many teams rely on selling their kids to survive as clubs, but they will still be able to sell them, but it will be different clubs that come in for them. Instead of Arsenal buying every good kid, they will just buy some and then other clubs will buy the rest. This rule will have a knock-on effect on transfer prices as well. Why would Man City spend £50m on Torres if he may only be able to play a certain amount of games? It will increase the prices of home grown players, because they will be more valuable to teams as to fit in with the rules.


For me personally, he shouldn't. English people, with the right qualifications, should have better chance of employment than somebody from elsewhere. And the same goes for everywhere, people in Germany, Spain, France, etc, should have better chance of employment in their own countries than English people should. I don't think it's right that people who's families that have lived here for hundreds of years are being pushed into the streets because foreigners are willing to work for below the minimum wage, it's not right.

I never said that foreign youngsters are any better than locals.


But to whom should they sell then? It's not as if Arsenal is the only club buying young players from abroad. They're everywhere in every league. Plus, the prices for homegrown players are already higher than those for others.


So and a if there's a job in Paris and citizen of Paris should be preferred to a citizen of Lyon? And so on?
The equality of all citizens within the EU is the basic idea of this institution. Without it could as well be closed. (Maybe that is what you want )

How would europe survive then? Individually england spain and germany working their own people would never be able to compete with usa/canada or china/russia.


Workers willing to work for cheap makes countries rise to the top. Look at germany with the turkish, england with the indians, usa/canada with every kind.



I think your idea is facist but i can see where your coming from.

I don't get one thing: even under the 6+5 rule, foreign players will still have equal chance of being employed as home grown players. team selection is a completely different matter. a club can buy as many foreigners as possible but still field 11 home grown players. how come that doesn't break EU regulations?!


Spot on.

there is already a limit to the number of foreigners you can have on your team.

On top of that you can only transfer 2 foreign players per year. There are no restrictions on european players. That right is alot.


I tihnk they should limit the rule to 2 foreigners period. For example england cannot buy from spain without using one of those spots.

No, because they are both French nationals. I mean within countries. Like if a citizen of Paris and a citizen of London went for a job in Lyon.. the Parisian should get it, in my opinion.


England is pretty much in the worst state it's been economically since the wars, and even the wars don't really count because the country is losing money by necessity.

Why would England fall behind? England has always been one of the Worlds top countries, if anything it's in modern times when foreigners have began to work here that we've slowly declined as a country, though I know it's not down to them, but it still suggests we don't need them.

I don't even think the system works at all. If foreigners are coming in for high speciality jobs like doctors, opticians, etc. then I have nothing against it, these jobs are often the most important and the least in terms of people going for them since the qualifications are difficult to obtain.

But it's the people who come here willing to work under the minimum wage that hurts it. If anything it costs the country even more. That may sound mathematically stupid as you may wonder how it could cost the country more if they're paying less in wages.. I go to college with someone who moved here from India about 6 months ago, he started working at a supermarket at minimum wage (£5.70ish I think) which had also been a place my brother had applied for, but didn't get it. So due to their unemployment rate at the moment, my brother gets about £200 a month for doing nothing at all until he gets a job.. while my friend only earns about that while doing a job. If my brother had got the job, my Indian friend would NOT be entitled to money from the gov'ment. So the country is basically paying out twice, instead of once, because a foreigner has taken a job from someone born here. It also increaes mass employment in the country. Take me for example, and everybody my age.. we'll be finishing college/university in the next few years but there will be no jobs open for us. People who've already got jobs will obviously take up some jobs, but then foreigners willing to work for less than us will take up others.. what the hell is my generation going to do?

I believe this for everywhere, not just England. I don't think it's right for people coming out of schools to find no employment because others are just coming into the country to take their jobs, I don't think it's healthy for a country at all. Some may not like or agree with what I have to say, but I personally really believe in it.

Before anyone says anything, no, I'm not facist nor racist.


There's a limit to how many foreigners you can have? Are you sure? What's the limit then.. 11? Because Arsenal have fielded 11 players in the majority of their games this season.

The 2 foreign players per season rule is only in place in some leagues. English teams can buy whoever they want as long as they can get a work permit for the player.

I'd agree with this as it goes with what I believe. If teams can only buy 2 foreigners..
1) Values on foreign players will decrease as if teams want too much, buying clubs will just go elsewhere for a cheaper option.
2) Hme based players prices will increase, meaning big clubs will have to pay out massive sums of mney in order to get these players.
3) With onl 2 foreigners being able to be bought in and home based players costing too much, teams will be forced to use their youth academy more which will improve the quality of youngsters as they will be given more attention and at least given a chance.

Aren't all nations in a pretty bad shape these days? It's a global crisis.


I don't think the European countries wouldn't be able to compete on their own. After all most states are among the biggest economies in the world on their own. That said, of course, if Europe wants to challenge China and the US....it's only possible within a united Europe.
But since we are still talking about football. I don't think Europe has a problem. Our nations are the most successful in football. Plus, there's no limit for foreign players in Europe.


It's a system that is supposed to work within the EU. So you could as well go to Spain and get a job there. It's Solidarity Group. Works pretty fine if you ask me.

You've pretty much mentioned the biggest problem here.

Why should we have to leave our own country, family, friends, etc just to get a job nowadays? Not only that, but where am I going to get the money from to move over there and the like? I suppose that what our careers advisors will be telling us "I know you can't get a job in England, but don't worry, you can always get a job in the rest of Europe.." Great.

I don't agree with people from EU nations travelling to another EU nations, but even that's not the case, there'a very good % of people living here from none EU countries.

Anyways, this is meant to be a football topic!

Let's say Platini puts this forward and it does get accepted.. will each individual league in UEFA have to accept it in order for it to be passed, will they have to put a vote to the leagues clubs? Because I can't see teams like Arsenal or Liverpool going with it, nor can I see the FA agreeing with it..

The FA has agreed with it. I read it on their website a few days ago!
(here's the link)

I don't think clubs/leagues have any say on this anyway. it's up to three parties if I'm not wrong: FIFA, UEFA, the EU.

That's surprising.. then again, maybe the FA actually does care about the national team, who'd have imagined that.

I saw the title of an article on goal.com the other day - would not bother reading past it. It read something like "The 6+5 rule: UEFA's plan to get back at the success of English football"... it's so weird, that guy could see through it but the FA officials could not...

I know, it's stupid really.

I have no problem with people disliking our league, clubs, fans, whatever.. but when Platini or Blatter are blatently trying to stop this league by pretty much making rules for Premier League clubs that don't go for the rest of Europe, it's not right.

The 6+5 rule is okay in my opinion as it at least affects other countries. But reports saying Platini wants man City banned from Europe for having too much money, or the EPL has too much money. Last time I checked Madrid spent nearly £50m on Figo and Zidane each.. yet when an EPL club spends £30m there's outrage. It seems that it's okay for teams in Italy and Spain to spend what they want, but we can't.

Y"know, it's funny. The Italians think Platini hates them (except for the Gobbi) too. And they REALLY dislike Blatter.

I think the money thing is meant to apply to everyone and would hit the Spanish clubs rather hard too (as well as some English and some Italian clubs. Think the German clubs are relatively healthy, fiscally). The latest proposal I heard was that to compete in UEFA competition (ie, the CL), a club has to show it's debt is in some proportion to its assets and spending (so clubs in massive debt whose rich owners decide to walk away or who go bankrupt would be the ones in trouble). I think that's fair.

I'd agree with that.

I was looking at the Forbes list the other day, and some teams debt is incredible. Liverpool, United and Valencia have a debt that just seems near impossible to get out of.

I think Platinis suggestion was to sanction clubs with a serious debt by not allowing them to play in the CL or the Uefa Cup. And I totally agree with this, as I don't think it's fair that clubs like Valencia, ManU, Chelsea can accumulate massive debts....and nothing happens. Chelsea and ManU have debts of almost a billion Euro. Barcelona, Madrid and Valencia also have debts of hundreds of millions.
I mean it's their problem, but it's not fair that clubs with a sustainable fiscal policy are actually being punished for it in Europe because they don't pay crazy transfer fees. So I absolutely agree with Platinis proposal.

Me too. But I suppose that these clubs would retort saying that without the Champions League their earnings will be hit.

I think if Man U is banned from the CL they will definitely go under.

I would be 100% behind this, but the trouble is you can't force teams to pay off their debt and some probably can't even afford to.

Wenger bought up something in an interview I read earlier and he really is spot on. (The question is in bold.)