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dst
QUOTE
Blatter proposal threatens Inter
Friday 5 October, 2007

FIFA President Sepp Blatter pushes for a limit of five foreign players in the starting 11 for League matches – a ruling that would devastate Inter.

EU law led to the abolition of any rule limiting the number of foreign players a club could field, but Blatter argues that such guidelines shouldn’t apply to football.

“Workers in Europe can circulate freely, but footballers are not workers,” he told BBC Sport.

“You cannot consider a footballer like any normal worker because you need 11 to play a match – they are more artists than workers.

“When you have 11 foreigners in a team, this is not good for the development of football, for the education of young players, and there is a financial aspect too.”

Blatter’s aim is to force clubs to pick no more than five foreign players in their starting formation.

The re-introduction of a foreigners rule will be extremely difficult to implement as it is likely to meet with determined resistance from the biggest clubs in Europe.

Inter, for example, would see their formidable squad rendered impotent as they depend so strongly on their overseas stars.

In last weekend’s Serie A clash against Roma, the Nerazzurri didn’t send a single Italian on to the pitch with the starting 11 entirely composed of foreigners.

Roma, Juventus and Milan are less vulnerable as they all regularly play at least five Italians, but they would still see many of their expensive imports become useless.


::channel4::
Tennie
I actually agree with Blatter on this one.
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (Tennie @ Oct 5 2007, 12:14 PM)
I actually agree with Blatter on this one.
*

I think it's a very good idea, but something I don't see happening.

The EPL tried it some time ago, it was considered racist and limiting job opportunites for foreign people. rolleyes.gif

I don't see his thing working with "footballers aren't workers" because they are.
Rossoneri7
Good .. Now kick the merda out of Europe biggrin.gif
Jack Sparrow
Leave it to Valencia...
milanista1899
I'll go along with anything that'll make Inter look like the merda they really are! devil.gif devilsmiley.gif
Locke Lamora
Devastating Inter = Great.
Devastating Arsenal as well = Not so great.
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (Locke Lamora @ Oct 11 2007, 11:40 PM)
Devastating Inter = Great.
Devastating Arsenal as well = Not so great.
*


Hehe .. Nah, Blatter just proposed it .. There are many teams that depend on foreigners as key players, off the top of my head Milan, Madrid, Barcelona, nearly half the French teams, and where would the EPL and La Liga be without their foreign imports rolleyes.gif

Personally I want to see inter damaged in any way, shape or form ! wink.gif
dst
I don't see it working either... plus, as Kurt said, it's stupid to suggest footballers are not workers! rolleyes.gif
kurtsimonw
QUOTE
Blatter to ignore EU over foreign player quotas

BRUSSELS, April 17 (Reuters) - FIFA president Sepp Blatter aims to bypass the European Union and UEFA next month over plans to curb foreign players at soccer clubs, which could lead to a spate of costly court cases, FIFA officials said.

UEFA has so far dismissed Blatter's proposal to restrict teams to five foreign nationals on the pitch on the grounds that it conflicts with EU laws on the free movement of workers, potentially leading to widespread legal actions.

Despite UEFA's stance and EU opposition, the world game's top official will seek a 'gentleman's agreement' on the matter among the national associations, including those in Europe, at FIFA's annual congress in Sydney next month, bypassing Europe's governing body, the officials said.

UEFA favours reaching a deal with the EU's executive Commission on its home-grown player rule which sets a quota of locally trained players at clubs but without any discrimination on nationality.

FIFA says that does not go far enough and allows too much exploitation of young players by clubs.

To change the rules, Blatter needs 75 percent support at the congress where each of FIFA's 208 member associations who are eligible to vote have one vote each and UEFA as an organisation has none.

Tensions have risen between the two power brokers after UEFA president Michel Platini refused to accompany Blatter on a trip to Brussels last week to convince the EU institutions of the merits of his plan, prompting the FIFA chief to cancel.

A spokesman for Blatter blamed 'circumstances beyond our control' for the u-turn, but EU, FIFA and UEFA sources told Reuters that Brussels officials and some lawmakers did not wish to engage with Blatter on the issue, notably in the absence of Platini.

'As far as the EU is concerned, Blatter is flogging a dead horse and any discussion would have been pointless,' one EU official familiar with the situation said.

FIFA and UEFA sources said Platini advised Blatter in a letter not to travel to the EU capital as it could harm UEFA's positive relationship with Brussels, sparking an angry response from Blatter who warned Platini that failure to back him could have major consequences for their relationship in the future.

'He (Blatter) doesn't want a war with UEFA or to anger the EU, but this is a point of principle for him,' one FIFA official said.

'When he became president he made a promise on this and he sees this as a major legacy of his time in office. He believes he can get a gentleman's agreement with all the national associations.'

EU and UEFA officials warned that such a deal could prompt multi-million court cases challenging the rule and eventually end up before the European Court of Justice (ECJ).

In a similar case on the free movement of players across the 27-member bloc in 1995, the ECJ ruled against football's authorities. The judgement, known as the 'Bosman ruling', proved damning for the sport and changed the face of the game forever.

'Firstly you must be confident you are dealing with gentlemen that will stick to the deal. But in this day and age that is highly unlikely,' a senior UEFA source said.

ESPN


What he's trying to do is a good thing, I think teams need to have alot of players from their own country to have some sort of identity, otherwise it's stupid.

Inter look likely to win Serie A while barely using any Italians. Materazzi is the only guy to have made more than 10 appearances I think! In the EPL it isn't so bad, United and Chelsea have quite a few English players, but Arsenal and Liverpool barely have any! Hopefully Blatter keeps pushing for this!

But what he's trying to do right now doesn't even seem legal, so unless he bribes everyone like he usually, allegedly, does then it isn't going to happen!
Bluesummers
Won't happen. Will make uefa and fifa look like a racist organization. Second downfall is that players will head to mls and will make euro lose their important south american investments.
acid911
While the offer seems very tempting, I, like others, highly doubt we'll be seeing anything like this implemented anytime soon. Plus, there is also a matter of International market. The more players from all around the world, the larger the football market.

Then again, if it doesn't happen, it will hurt national teams the most - particularly the European ones. wink.gif
morgoth
QUOTE (acid911 @ Apr 18 2008, 01:31 PM)
While the offer seems very tempting, I, like others, highly doubt we'll be seeing anything like this implemented anytime soon. Plus, there is also a matter of International market. The more players from all around the world, the larger the football market.

Then again, if it doesn't happen, it will hurt national teams the most - particularly the European ones. wink.gif
*


That's the main reason why the organization are against it, because it involves money, they don't give a s*** about being xenophobic or anything else, their only concern is MONEY!
dst
It's stupid what he's trying to do... utterly stupid! While I don't like what Inter, Chelsea and Liverpool do, I believe it's their own damn business!! You can't force this **** into them, if they don't feel like having a core of native-born players then they should go this way... how the... just how can you constrain a club to have an indigenous identity? He has no authority to do anything like that...

Like always, Blatter is being an idiot...
morgoth
QUOTE (dst @ Apr 18 2008, 04:19 PM)
It's stupid what he's trying to do... utterly stupid! While I don't like what Inter, Chelsea and Liverpool do, I believe it's their own damn business!! You can't force this **** into them, if they don't feel like having a core of native-born players then they should go this way... how the... just how can you constrain a club to have an indigenous identity? He has no authority to do anything like that...

Like always, Blatter is being an idiot...
*


dst, imagine that there's a shopping centre that opens in your neighbour, and all the employees are from another city, while in your own there's a lot of unemployment, would you still find that stupid? Especially if those employees work for "cheaper" than your neighbours would, that exactly what's happening in football (not talking about the quality here), nowadays an average footballer wouldn't hesitate to go to play in the EPL because he knows he's going to get paid much more than in another country, yet his salary would be nothing compared to what a local footballer of the same level would ask. That's the main problem behind globalisation.
acid911
QUOTE (morgoth @ Apr 18 2008, 08:01 PM)
That's the main reason why the organization are against it, because it involves money, they don't give a s*** about being xenophobic or anything else, their only concern is MONEY!
*

All sports are completely about money. The lure of millions and billions is too much to resist for these organizations, be it FIFA, NHL, or ICC. Speaking of which, take a look at where Cricket is now that money has come into it. In fact, the only sports that's not as commercialized is what, maybe Sumo wrestling? Or ping-pong, for that matter? laugh.gif

For fans, yes it's agonizingly frustrating, but who gives a rat's asss for the fans? wink.gif
dst
QUOTE (morgoth @ Apr 18 2008, 05:30 PM)
dst, imagine that there's a shopping centre that opens in your neighbour, and all the employees are from another city, while in your own there's a lot of unemployment, would you still find that stupid? Especially if those employees work for "cheaper" than your neighbours would, that exactly what's happening in football (not talking about the quality here), nowadays an average footballer wouldn't hesitate to go to play in the EPL because he knows he's going to get paid much more than in another country, yet his salary would be nothing compared to what a local footballer of the same level would ask. That's the main problem behind globalisation.
*

I don't really get what you are saying... Your example is about people from another place getting picked ahead of others because they accept being paid less... what Blatter is trying to stop is teams buying foreign players who they pay MORE... The thing is, this is not about money... Blatter just wants to see the clubs focusing on national "resources"...

And I don't think you're right about what you're saying at all... clubs don't pick foreign players so that they can pay them less. In fact, in Serie A and the EPL the highest paid footballers are foreign... huh.gif

It's as simple as this... clubs choose QUALITY... and if you think about it, there are many more world-class players that are (for example) non-Italian (or non-whatever) than Italian... a single country cannot beat the rest of the world in total number of quality players... so in my view, it's normal that clubs have more foreign than they do local players.
morgoth
QUOTE (dst @ Apr 18 2008, 04:50 PM)
I don't really get what you are saying... Your example is about people from another place getting picked ahead of others because they accept being paid less... what Blatter is trying to stop is teams buying foreign players who they pay MORE... The thing is, this is not about money... Blatter just wants to see the clubs focusing on national "resources"...

And I don't think you're right about what you're saying at all... clubs don't pick foreign players so that they can pay them less. In fact, in Serie A and the EPL the highest paid footballers are foreign...  huh.gif

It's as simple as this... clubs choose QUALITY... and if you think about it, there are many more world-class players that are (for example) non-Italian (or non-whatever) than Italian... a single country cannot beat the rest of the world in total number of quality players... so in my view, it's normal that clubs have more foreign than they do local players.
*


No, they pay more the likes of C.Ronaldo, Pato, Anderson, Torres, Ibrahimovic ... etc Do you think Flamini is paid as much as Carrick, Walcott as much as Bentner, Berbatov as much as Rooney, of course no! Blatter was not talking about the stars but about the young players.

Right now, this problem is only in the EPL because the others countries don't spend as much (on the young players) but with time, and if they want to be competitive they'll have to.

Clubs choose quality of course, but what I was talking about are the average players, an english version of Diabi, L.Diarra, Elano, Bentner, Clichy, Mickel ... would cost 3 times more to the club, so he prefers to go shopping aboard.
You that it's normal for a club to have more foreign then quality player, and I say no tongue.gif
dst
QUOTE (morgoth @ Apr 18 2008, 06:08 PM)
Clubs choose quality of course, but what I was talking about are the average players, an english version of Diabi, L.Diarra, Elano, Bentner, Clichy, Mickel ... would cost 3 times more to the club, so he prefers to go shopping aboard.
*

I guess this is where we disagree as I don't think this is bad.
kurtsimonw
I'm really for it, unfortunatly it will never happen. What Blatter is trying to do wil basically help the World of football. Instead of spending millions a year on new players, the money will be spent on the youth academies, improving the quality of younger players as they'll have better facilities to use. Each team will be able to rely on younger players that are in a sense 'free' rather than having to pay tonnes of money on new players. It will still happen, but less frequently.
Bluesummers
football is a business first sport second. If kaka plays better football than delpiero. Milan will buy kaka. End of story. Its the same idea as why we bought pato where we could have easily bought g rossi. Hes italian, pato is brazillian. When buying players they look at skill not cost.
morgoth
QUOTE (Bluesummers @ Apr 18 2008, 08:34 PM)
football is a business first sport second.  If kaka plays better football than delpiero.  Milan will buy kaka.  End of story.  Its the same idea as why we bought pato where we could have easily bought g rossi.  Hes italian, pato is brazillian.  When buying players they look at skill not cost.
*


Football was never a business, it has become one wink.gif
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (Bluesummers @ Apr 18 2008, 07:34 PM)
football is a business first sport second.  If kaka plays better football than delpiero.  Milan will buy kaka.  End of story.  Its the same idea as why we bought pato where we could have easily bought g rossi.  Hes italian, pato is brazillian.  When buying players they look at skill not cost.
*

But it isn't helping the game. And Italy will suffer because of this. Have you seen the Italy Under-21s? They're... average, very average. The Championships in Holland last year were terrible for them, having too many foreign players in your league doesn't help at all.

It's not the end of the World if it doesn't happen though I suppose. Ah well.
Bluesummers
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Apr 18 2008, 04:48 PM)
But it isn't helping the game. And Italy will suffer because of this. Have you seen the Italy Under-21s? They're... average, very average. The Championships in Holland last year were terrible for them, having too many foreign players in your league doesn't help at all.

It's not the end of the World if it doesn't happen though I suppose. Ah well.
*


The top teams in the world should incorporate whoever they like while they smaller teams use their youth systems. Its been working good and has always worked in the past. Blatter's problem is that they dont see enough of italians say in inter but thats a special case. Milan juve and roma have a fair share of italians. In england united, liverfool,chelsea also have a fair share of english players. Arsenal is the only one who looks like inter.

My point is that top clubs shouldn't be limited to they use because that just turns the level of football quality down. The under 21 italians suck yes but would you think it would be any different if milan started rotating them around? Look at gourcuff. Look at gilardino now who used to be good and now is trash. what i'm getting at is that top teams shouldn't be forced to bring down the quality of their game because their home country youth arent cutting it.
dst
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Apr 19 2008, 12:48 AM)
But it isn't helping the game. And Italy will suffer because of this. Have you seen the Italy Under-21s? They're... average, very average. The Championships in Holland last year were terrible for them, having too many foreign players in your league doesn't help at all.
*

Italy's U21 team is not so bad in my opinion but anyway.

In general, it does not really matter what the youth teams do in terms of results. There can't be good teams on all generations, it's only normal... there are a number of good players though. The senior team consists of players of different generations... and that's where results matter.
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (dst @ Apr 19 2008, 12:48 PM)
Italy's U21 team is not so bad in my opinion but anyway.

In general, it does not really matter what the youth teams do in terms of results. There can't be good teams on all generations, it's only normal... there are a number of good players though. The senior team consists of players of different generations... and that's where results matter.
*


World cup winners doesn't come from having too many foreigners in your league too
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (Bluesummers @ Apr 18 2008, 11:34 PM)
The top teams in the world should incorporate whoever they like while they smaller teams use their youth systems. 
*

That's my point exactly.

If the majority of young players are coming through at smaller teams, and never get a chance at the top, they're generally not going to be as good - worse training facilities, playing alongside worse players, etc. And this will eventually reflect on the NTs, obviously not right away. As dst said the NTs are made up of many generations, but eventually squads, in Europe at least, will consist of teams from outside the top 4. Just look at the current England squad as an example.
dst
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Apr 19 2008, 02:10 PM)
World cup winners doesn't come from having too many foreigners in your league too
*

Victory in the World Cup comes from 11 great players and a good bench. The number of foreigners in a league has nothing to do with how many great players a country "produces". There would be more good players yeah but the great ones will always come through... so, in my view, the results of a national team in a World Cup (or Euro for that matter) are irrelevant to the number of foreigners in the league of that country.
Rossoneri7
Well yes its 11 of the best then a good bench (plus a great coach) ... Thats a given.


But what I meant was Serie A, has more of an Italian feel to it. I mean you look at the Italian championship (regardless of the cugini of course) and can get that feel. You could say the same about the Bundesliga.

You go to the EPL and you count the number of foreigners playing their trade there, along with the La Liga ...


Ok for the sake of example ... When you think Serie A; name the best players in each position for the Italian national side: Buffon, Zambrotta, Oddo, Nesta, Matrix, Cannavaro, Panucci, Cameronesi, Totti, Pirlo, Gattuso, Ambrosini, De Rossi, Aquilani, Toni, Inzaghi, Iaquinta, Del Piero, (and this is just for the sake of example 2 have retired).


Can you do the same for the EPL ?! I mean when you think of the EPL for example when you think Gkeeper, Cech comes to mind not Robinson ... Then for a winger CRonaldo comes to mind not Bently etc etc ...
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Apr 19 2008, 02:35 PM)
Ok for the sake of example ... When you think Serie A; name the best players in each position for the Italian national side: Buffon, Zambrotta, Oddo, Nesta, Matrix, Cannavaro, Panucci, Cameronesi, Totti, Pirlo, Gattuso, Ambrosini, De Rossi, Aquilani, Toni, Inzaghi, Iaquinta, Del Piero, (and this is just for the sake of example 2 have retired).

Can you do the same for the EPL ?! I mean when you think of the EPL for example when you think Gkeeper, Cech comes to mind not Robinson ... Then for a winger CRonaldo comes to mind not Bently etc etc ...
*

I don't see what the relation is between the top paragraph and the bottom one. You said "Name the best players in each position for the Italian NT" Obviously there's going to be no foreigners, as no foreigners can play for the Italian NT.
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Apr 19 2008, 05:40 PM)
I don't see what the relation is between the top paragraph and the bottom one. You said "Name the best players in each position for the Italian NT" Obviously there's going to be no foreigners, as no foreigners can play for the Italian NT.
*



That's exactly it Kurt, the foreigners cant play in the NT, hence you don't have such a strong NT but have a rather strong league .. yes? wink.gif



p.s. This was not a swipe at you (since that is how you usually take it, so chill).
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Apr 19 2008, 02:54 PM)
That's exactly it Kurt, the foreigners cant play in the NT, hence you don't have such a strong NT but have a rather strong league .. yes? wink.gif


p.s. This was not a swipe at you (since that is how you usually take it, so chill).
*

But surely I could just do the same as you, but in reverse? No?

When you think of the England NT and take the best players from each position, you think of James, Carragher, Richards, Ferdinand, Terry, Lampard, Gerrard, Joe and Ashley Cole, Owen, Rooney, etc.

But In Serie A when you think of Strikers, you think Ibrahomovic or Trezeguet, not Del Piero or Inzaghi. And in midfield the best is clearly Kaka'.

I personally do think the best GK and DEF in the league this season have been English. James has been alot better than Cech, and Ferdinand has had the best season of his career by a mile at the back. But to be honest, you can make points for and against every league. In my opinion Italy and Spains best player doesn't even play in their own league - Toni and Torres - while only Beckham of any decent English players plays out of the country.

It's something that will never end, especially as the leagues seem to just go through cycles of dominance and the NTs are very up and down, it's just a matter of opinion. What somebody thinks is great, another person will think is rubbish.


What makes you think it's personal? Why do you think that because somebody disagrees with you they take it personally. unsure.gif
whoarethepatriots
Inter and the Premier league can rest easy, this proposal would never come through as it contravenes the EU's free movement of labour
Tennie
unsure.gif unsure.gif unsure.gif Oh dear. Kurt and I are agreeing about something related to English football. Surely the sky is falling.

I think Kurt's spot on about David James. He's been very good indeed this year.


As for the Blatter proposal, I think it would be very good for the sport of football. That said, I don't think the business of football would be at all in favor of it and, well, it does contravene the free movement of labor laws.

I look back with nostalgia on the days when teams could only field 3 non-national players at a time.
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Apr 19 2008, 06:05 PM)
But surely I could just do the same as you, but in reverse? No?

When you think of the England NT and take the best players from each position, you think of James, Carragher, Richards, Ferdinand, Terry, Lampard, Gerrard, Joe and Ashley Cole, Owen, Rooney, etc.

But In Serie A when you think of Strikers, you think Ibrahomovic or Trezeguet, not Del Piero or Inzaghi. And in midfield the best is clearly Kaka'.

I personally do think the best GK and DEF in the league this season have been English. James has been alot better than Cech, and Ferdinand has had the best season of his career by a mile at the back. But to be honest, you can make points for and against every league. In my opinion Italy and Spains best player doesn't even play in their own league - Toni and Torres - while only Beckham of any decent English players plays out of the country.

It's something that will never end, especially as the leagues seem to just go through cycles of dominance and the NTs are very up and down, it's just a matter of opinion. What somebody thinks is great, another person will think is rubbish.
What makes you think it's personal? Why do you think that because somebody disagrees with you they take it personally.  unsure.gif
*



It's not about rubbish ... And it's not about disagreeing (all I have to do is mention the EPL or the England NT and state my opinion, if its negative, you'll always do a Galliani, then again Galliani's team has backed itself with honors biggrin.gif ) ... I was just stating a point.

Clearly Kaka is a phenomeno and Ibra cadabra is a player of great quality ... There is no doubt that in the top European leagues, you will find foreigners of high quality, no doubt


But your missing the point again (lets try again smile.gif and u don't need to 'agree'), when you take Serie A; take out the best players in the league, the majority would be Italians. Sure Toni plays his trade in Germany as Cannavaro plays in Spain (but that said, there is no demand for the English players outside of EPL ... Becks is the excepion to the rule, maybe Owen !? but what happened to him ... If you wanna look at an English man abroad, Gaza wink.gif but you dont wana go that far back ).

Sure Lampard, Gerrard, Carra, Ferdinand, and Rooney are all world class ... They have all played their trade at the top. But then again, who is James ?! Richards ?! King ?! I mean we are talking world class here and non of these guys fit the bill. Compare that to the Italy NT or Germany NT, I am 100% sure you will find a stronger foundation of a NT in them than you would find in the England NT.


Maybe Capello can set the records straight ... Maybe he cant, but it is a fact that when you look at how rich (in quality) the EPL is, the burden definitely rests on foreign imports. And of course this is my opinion in the end.

But proof lies in that where is the England NT honors ?! Where is the gold ? silver ? bronze medal ?


I have always told you that I am shocked of how unlucky the England NT is, and have always reiterated that the prob is the lack of a world class Gkeeper. Maybe Capello can finally get one of those honors.
dst
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Apr 19 2008, 04:35 PM)
Well yes its 11 of the best then a good bench (plus a great coach) ... Thats a given.
But what I meant was Serie A, has more of an Italian feel to it. I mean you look at the Italian championship (regardless of the cugini of course) and can get that feel. You could say the same about the Bundesliga.
*

I too prefer to see each league have an indigenous core and feeling, we agree on that.

But what you said about the WC has nothing to do with this in my view.

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Apr 19 2008, 05:05 PM)
In my opinion Italy and Spains best player doesn't even play in their own league - Toni and Torres - while only Beckham of any decent English players plays out of the country.
*

Is this a good or a bad thing?
kurtsimonw
Which part? I think it's good that the England squad is primarily basied in it's own league. I don't think it's good when your best player doesn't even play in your own country, if it's a top league and you're born in that country, why leave?
dst
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Apr 19 2008, 08:41 PM)
Which part? I think it's good that the England squad is primarily basied in it's own league.
*

I think it does not matter.

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Apr 19 2008, 08:41 PM)
I don't think it's good when your best player doesn't even play in your own country, if it's a top league and you're born in that country, why leave?
*

why not leave?

We are just disagreeing though I don't think this is getting anywhere! biggrin.gif
kurtsimonw
laugh.gif

We would be here for days.. weeks.. years if we kept this up.
Jack Sparrow
^^^

unsure.gif I don't get your point. You've already been here a year. So you still haven't made up your point whether your coming or going...
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