All Champions league talk for the coming season here

Lazio evaded United but got Leverkusen. Perfect opportunity to test our debate from last season on Italian and German sides Han, yes?

I think it should be a good match up

Hopefully Lazio don't let me down here because they should be beating Leverkusen imo. They have some very talented players in their squad

First time ever an Albanian team makes it in the final play-off round. Skënderbeu vs Dinamo Zagreb. Bring it on, Fillipo!

Are you by any chance planing to visit Zagreb?

Nope, don't have the time.

Another time then

Good start for Lazio.

Lucky, but yes. Good.

So, seems to me that Lazio is going down fast. Not that it was unexpected, at least not for me. Sadly.

Terrible game form them. Didn't do jackshit for the whole 90 minutes.

Pioli messed up about everything. Picking three defenders while Mauricio struggled already in the first game. The midfield was non-existant, no real striker options...well, here it goes. Yet another German-Italian duel going in favor of the Germans.

The Germans are far ahead. What's important is to catch up the English.

That won't take long. Italy is building momentum. Juve, Inter and Roma are looking like going places. If we could just get our act together we'd join them. But those three (and Fio & Napoli) will be solid in UCL and UEL for years to come - England are absolutely ghastly and just get worse each season.

In 5 years it'll be Spain, Germany, France, Italy, England.

Are you sure about that one? I'm not an expert in EPL but,...

Can't be certain, but EPL fails at UCL year on year. Past 3 finals have seen zero English teams and the past 3 semi finals have seen one. 6 teams, only one of which was English.

For the richest, strongest, most 'powerful' league on earth supposedly, its best teams are increasingly failing at UCL.

Italy have suffered a dreadful lull since Milan won UCL, but Juve's progress last season coupled with strong showings at a European level from Napoli and Roma among others suggests England is moving in one direction while Italy is improving.

People look at the money and the hype and forget that the EPL actually isn't very good. It's entertaining, but if you picked a world XI, how many players from EPL would be in it?

I'd have (top of my head, it's late and I'll forget loads):

Neuer, Zabaleta, Silva, Hummels, Alba, Modric, Kroos, Hazard, Ronaldo, Messi, Suarez

Two. Two from Germany, the rest from Spain.

Silva ain't got nothing to do with Spain, Germany or England, Danny.

I'm still not convinced. You picked the XI, but forgot that none of the mentioned players is from - Italy. For all I know last season was a fluke. This one started rather badly for Italy - Lazio not making it as a possible 3rd Italian CL entry, while Sampdoria already got eliminated from the EL.

I didn't forget. I just confirmed right now the best players in the world are mostly Spain with Germany and England thrown in. Italy doesn't have a single player worthy of a world XI. But its clubs do appear to be on the slow improvement re: Europe. 2 in UCL and 3 in UEL.

England have 2 in UEL and 4 in UCL.

5 years ago someone claimed France were on the up - I scoffed. But they now have 2 in UCL and 4 in UEL. That's more & better than they were 5 years ago.

Either way the one thing I do believe for sure is England deteriorate every passing season. None of Utd, Arsenal, City or Chelsea will make a dent. Best they can hope for this season is one quarter finalist. Most likely a park the bus Chelsea, as usual.

Maybe it's early but I'm not sure the point you're trying to make here

Silva plays in France. You said two from England, two from Germany and the rest from Spain.

Like I said, it was late when I made that post, and early when I read Acid's point

Now with Samp and Lazio crashing out I can't see Italy catching up to England.

As expected, Lazio f@cking things up, this is what happens when a random team gets a CL spot from Italy, always does. I was bombarded in May for saying that Lazio would ruin Italy's chances, just like past teams have, and look where we are now.

For Italy to become a force in Europe again, Juve, Milan and Inter need to all be back to their best, even Roma and Napoli are huge failures in Europe

fwiw I don't actually care if Italy becomes a force in Europe again, unlike 99% on here I support Milan and only Milan. The other teams can rot for all I care. I don't give a toss if Italy gets success in Europe - it's of no interest to me. I am just stating a fact - England's teams are rapidly declining in Europe, while Spain, France and Germany's get stronger. Italy's are too, much more slowly though. And I believe in 5 years at the rate England are deteriorating they will slip down the rankings swiftly while Italy will slowly improve. I think in 5 years both will be quite comparible in terms of where they are in the coefficient.

2011:

England had 4 teams in the top 10, with Utd at #1.

2012:

3 teams, Utd at number 2.

2013:

3 teams, Chelsea at number 3

2014:

3 teams, Chelsea at number 4

2015:

3 teams, Chelsea at 4

2016:

2 teams, Chelsea at 4

Italy 2011:

2 teams in top 10, Inter at 9

2012:

1, Inter at 7

2013:

1, Inter at 7

2014:

0

2014:

0

2015:

0

2016:

1, Juve

England have gotten steadily worse every season while Italy have been a bit up and down, but right now they're slowly rising while England continue to rot.

^^ Sure, but Italy's chances of gaining ground on England now, even if they have another average year in Europe is being rapidly reduced with every team that drops out. Roma will most likely fail at coming out of their group, let's face it.

Hey, my abacus also needs an oiling late night and early morning.


98%, actually. Though I do have some sweet sports for the good teams in Serie A. And dare I say, even for our cousins across the city. No one comes close to Milan though, and technically, the whole league needs an overhaul in several areas for them to stake it in Europe, anyway.

I do remember when they had 4 places guaranteed, those were good times, I do say.

Since this seems to be the season of my personal rash predictions and fast judgments, let me add that now that the draw has been made, both Italian clubs could very well end up being eliminated after round one:

Juventus
Manchester City
Borussia Mönchengladbach
Sevilla

Barcelona
Leverkusen
Roma
BATE

While Chelsea and especially United seem to have a prepaid easy pass to the next round. Unbelievable how lucky United always gets. All English clubs have excellent chances of going through the first round.

United ALWAYS get an easy group. I don't ever recall them getting a Barca/Real/Munich in their group, at least not any time in recent memory.

And well, as we're talking about Italy failing. This could easily see Italy without any representation in the KOs

Although Juve should make it through their's considering the failure City are in this competition, if Juve manage to win both games against them it's game on

CL football back tonight. Juve-City looking mighty tasty.

Juve have been terrible so far this season while City are generally terrible in the CL. Will be interesting to see who's the least terrible on the night

We'll see. My tip is it will end up a draw.

If I had to put my money on someone though, I'd probably put it on City. Juve have been a down right mess this season. The Chievo game imo was a new low for them.

Agreed.

Easy win for City.

I sort of want that, because watching Juve get even more demoralised will be great fun for us all.

But on the other hand, I still want the Italian clubs to do well... Such a dilemma.

Juve have just too much quality.

Their midfield play was pretty terrible imo, however their defenders barely let City get a look in and 2 moments from their strikers won them the game.

Anyway, good night for Italy with both English sides losing.

We can still hope to pry that 4th spot away from them yet

In the end, United, Chelsea and Arsenal will prevail and reach the next stage. I don't think our clubs can match or surpass that.

Anyway. I just noticed how awful some groups are. Is this maybe the weakest group phase CL ever? So many bad teams involved.

Sure, they will get through, but the co-efficient situation is in a very precarious moment right now. All it takes if for 1 CL team and 1 EL team from Italy to do well like last season and we can be in a great position to take their spot.

Getting to the KOs is all well and good, they had teams in the KOs last season as well, while we only had Juve, but with the teams performing like they did in the EL and Juve's run to the final, it gave Italy a huge boost in the co-efficients.

Add to that the 11/12 (I think) season being earased which was very good for England and poor for Italy, so there's still a chance

Here's to hoping. Since I don't think we can make it to the CL this season, if the 4th spot is available next season and with a good mercato we could finally be back. Lots of ifs, though...

I don't see it as something that is solely important for us, but for the entire league

I think if we really want to get back to where we should be, the 4th spot shouldn't even be on our radar.

Nicely done, Roma.

Btw, Florenzi scored a euro goal.

The place where I was watching literally went nuts when that goal went in

Zabaleta is terrible. He and Kompany fell off a cliff last season.

From 4 English sides, only 1 won their opening game...

Pretty good so far.

Hopefully Fiorentina and Lazio do well tonight as well

Napoli killing it

Great week for Italian football till now.

Oh, forgot about Napoli

Roma playing like a bunch of amateurish idiots here.

Which they are.

This just reinforces me theory that for Italy to be great in Europe again, it needs Juve, Inter and Milan all back to their best, not the likes of Roma, Fiorenina or Lazio

So, 4 wins and 1 loss for Italian clubs in Europe this round, against 2 wins, 2 losses and 2 draws for English clubs. More points?