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han2503


Role: Midfielder

Jersey: #8

Birth date: 19/11/1993

Birth place: Cadice (Spagna)

Height: 176 cm

Weight: 70 kg
X-Offender
I'd really like to see him as CAM.
Danny
The one problem with this signing is we're so top-heavy now on forwards/wingers thanks to it.

Menez, Bona (way Pippo plays him anyway), Suso, Honda, Cerci.
X-Offender
Technically, we only have Suso, Cerci and Menez, since SES is injured, and Bona and Honda aren't exactly wingers. Besides, he can also play as CAM, so I wouldn't mind seeing a Menez-Suso-Cerci trio behind Destro.
Danny
That relies on 2-3-1 which Pippo won't play.

Agree though, that's a decent 3 behind Destro in theory.

But who goes in the two - Bona & De Jong? Monto and De Jong? Van Ginkel?

Let's face it Pippo's sticking with his 4:3:3, despite us really not having the players for it. Well, we do, just not in form ones.

If Monto was even remotely like he was in 2012 it would be less of a problem, he could sit with De Jong and Bona or Van Ginkel behind Destro with Menez/Suso/Cerci flanking him.

But there's a lot of selection issues.
Danny
F*ck knows why we signed this guy, he's never going to play.

PipposGonnaDoWhatPipposGonnaDo.
X-Offender
Suso and Menez behind Destro with De Jong, Bona and Poli in midfield would be ideal. Even so, we have no game, so these things come into second consideration.
Danny
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Feb 17 2015, 05:52 PM) *
Suso and Menez behind Destro with De Jong, Bona and Poli in midfield would be ideal. Even so, we have no game, so these things come into second consideration.


I'd prefer a midfield 3 of De Jong, Bona and Suso behind Destro flanked by Menez and Cerci.

Don't think Poli has enough to be considered part of our best potential team, but then, I am assuming Suso has!
X-Offender
QUOTE (Danny @ Feb 17 2015, 09:37 PM) *
I'd prefer a midfield 3 of De Jong, Bona and Suso behind Destro flanked by Menez and Cerci.

Don't think Poli has enough to be considered part of our best potential team, but then, I am assuming Suso has!


Not sure if Suso can pull the pure midfielder role. He's more of a winger/AM type of player.
Danny
Yes, hence I'd have him behind Destro in that DM/CM/AM combo I like.
han2503
QUOTE (Danny @ Feb 17 2015, 11:18 PM) *
Yes, hence I'd have him behind Destro in that DM/CM/AM combo I like.

Meaning what me and x-off call a creative CM?
X-Offender
Still no chance given to this guy. Would it really hurt at this point to start him in a couple of games? Why did we even bother in the first place? Oh, Pippo...
William405
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2412406...ime-at-ac-milan

Hopefully, he gets playing time this season. This guy has lots of potential, we should at least give him a chance!
X-Offender
The only way he's getting playing time is if he impresses in training and friendlies during this pre-season. Hopefully he understands that and gives his best to impress Miha.
Danny
A poor man's Menez. Don't want him anywhere near the first team.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 4 2015, 10:26 PM) *
A poor man's Menez. Don't want him anywhere near the first team.


Inzaghi, is that you?
Danny
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jul 4 2015, 09:41 PM) *
Inzaghi, is that you?


I don't rate him. Too selfish, too individualistic, but without the ability of Menez.

A poor man's Menez.

Happy for him to prove me wrong.

Not sure if Sini will give him the chance to though.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 5 2015, 05:25 AM) *
I don't rate him. Too selfish, too individualistic, but without the ability of Menez.

A poor man's Menez.

Happy for him to prove me wrong.

Not sure if Sini will give him the chance to though.


And your assessment comes from having seen him play in tons and tons of matches, right?
Danny
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jul 5 2015, 08:25 AM) *
And your assessment comes from having seen him play in tons and tons of matches, right?


If he acted out of character in the few appearances he made, then I'll be glad to see him act as more of a team player should he get his chance.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 5 2015, 11:26 AM) *
If he acted out of character in the few appearances he made, then I'll be glad to see him act as more of a team player should he get his chance.


A player that barely plays and is given the chance in a couple of games will tend to act a bit individualistic in order to impress the coach. Even so, I never got that feeling from Suso. Unlike Menez, it was fairly obvious he was playing for the team and not for himself.
Danny
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jul 5 2015, 10:35 AM) *
A player that barely plays and is given the chance in a couple of games will tend to act a bit individualistic in order to impress the coach.


Van Ginkel didn't v Empoli? He was excellent till his 30th minute injury. Played for the team, looked composed.

Armero didn't v Lazio in January. He was rubbish but he wasn't selfish.

QUOTE
Even so, I never got that feeling from Suso. Unlike Menez, it was fairly obvious he was playing for the team and not for himself.


Wasn't obvious to me. Versus Udinese, where he started, the only three players to manage less passes in the match for us (24) than him were Lopez (23), Paletta (14) and Pazzo (11). Of all the mids and creative players, Suso ranked bottom in terms of team play. Even Menez managed more, 48. His success rate of those passes was also the lowest in the whole team - 62.5%.

He improved against Inter, with the highest number of passes of all the attackers (36 - not by a lot, Pazzo was 33), and the highest % in attack, but v Sassuolo, before his red card, he managed the lowest overall again (20), and even if it had doubled for the second half, he would have remained among the lowest passing players.

This is my issue - I see talent here, potential - but in three appearances he was too just selfish with the ball, not looking up, and wanting the glory for himself.

It goes one of two ways. Either he goes the way of Menez, playing for himself, ball hogging, wanting to be the match winner, or, at his young age he gets the time to mature his game, pass more, look up and work harder off the ball.

Even Niang has learned to play as a team player, so Suso certainly has time, and we see what happens when that isn't knocked out of a player at an early age (Menez).

It's in his hands, and hopefully Sini can get that side out of his game and turn him into a serious talent. If, he sees him as part of his plans, that is.



X-Offender
QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 5 2015, 03:11 PM) *
Van Ginkel didn't v Empoli? He was excellent till his 30th minute injury. Played for the team, looked composed.

Armero didn't v Lazio in January. He was rubbish but he wasn't selfish.


You can't really compare a LB and a CM to an attacker in that regard. And besides, the game against Empoli was early in the season. Suso was signed in January but was not given a proper chance until mid-April when we played Inter, where he was arguably one of the better players in that horrendous match. Then a bad game where everyone was crap and bam, relegated on the bench for the rest of the season.

QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 5 2015, 03:11 PM) *
Wasn't obvious to me. Versus Udinese, where he started, the only three players to manage less passes in the match for us (24) than him were Lopez (23), Paletta (14) and Pazzo (11). Of all the mids and creative players, Suso ranked bottom in terms of team play. Even Menez managed more, 48. His success rate of those passes was also the lowest in the whole team - 62.5%.

He improved against Inter, with the highest number of passes of all the attackers (36 - not by a lot, Pazzo was 33), and the highest % in attack, but v Sassuolo, before his red card, he managed the lowest overall again (20), and even if it had doubled for the second half, he would have remained among the lowest passing players.

This is my issue - I see talent here, potential - but in three appearances he was too just selfish with the ball, not looking up, and wanting the glory for himself.

It goes one of two ways. Either he goes the way of Menez, playing for himself, ball hogging, wanting to be the match winner, or, at his young age he gets the time to mature his game, pass more, look up and work harder off the ball.

Even Niang has learned to play as a team player, so Suso certainly has time, and we see what happens when that isn't knocked out of a player at an early age (Menez).

It's in his hands, and hopefully Sini can get that side out of his game and turn him into a serious talent. If, he sees him as part of his plans, that is.


Give him time, dear. Judging him on those few scraps of games he's played is way too immature.

And speaking of the devil, according to Corriere, Suso has been the real surprise in these first two days of training. He's really impressed Mihajlovic, who wants him to stay at this point.

Link

thumbup.gif
Danny
If Sini's not playing with wingers, I struggle to see where Suso can fit in.
X-Offender
QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 5 2015, 07:37 PM) *
If Sini's not playing with wingers, I struggle to see where Suso can fit in.


Suso can play anywhere in attacking midfield.
Danny
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jul 5 2015, 06:57 PM) *
Suso can play anywhere in attacking midfield.


Oh, seen enough of him to know that, have you wink.gif
X-Offender
QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 5 2015, 10:37 PM) *
Oh, seen enough of him to know that, have you wink.gif


No, just search the internet and you'll find out.
Ry4n
shame if we let this guy go he gets pretty good in FM15 tongue.gif
Danny
QUOTE (Ry4n @ Jul 6 2015, 10:33 AM) *
shame if we let this guy go he gets pretty good in FM15 tongue.gif


*snort*
han2503
Danny, you're so quick to judge players you give people whiplash. At first you're all about someone, they have one disappointing performance and they're suddenly dead to you.

I just don't get that type of attitude towards judging players. Players need time to adapt and integrate into a side, spending a season on the bench and getting one chance where you find it hard to impress isn't something that's unheard of, actually it's quite common

Like with Van Ginkel. Once he started to get more playing time later in the season he struggled a bit, but once he did find his feet he was our best mid imo in those last few matches
Danny
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jul 6 2015, 11:48 AM) *
Danny, you're so quick to judge players you give people whiplash. At first you're all about someone, they have one disappointing performance and they're suddenly dead to you.


Name a single example! For me, and this is key; you're only as good as your last match. I judge in real time. If someone has 3 bad matches and one good one I say they had three bad matches and one good one.

And I do rate Suso as a player, but he's immature like Niang was and plays like he did. Menez is what happens when that isn't coached out of a player.

QUOTE
I just don't get that type of attitude towards judging players. Players need time to adapt and integrate into a side, spending a season on the bench and getting one chance where you find it hard to impress isn't something that's unheard of, actually it's quite common

Like with Van Ginkel. Once he started to get more playing time later in the season he struggled a bit, but once he did find his feet he was our best mid imo in those last few matches


Even SES excelled in our last few matches. Even Pippo looked like a manager.

han2503
QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 6 2015, 01:55 PM) *
Name a single example! For me, and this is key; you're only as good as your last match. I judge in real time. If someone has 3 bad matches and one good one I say they had three bad matches and one good one.

And I do rate Suso as a player, but he's immature like Niang was and plays like he did. Menez is what happens when that isn't coached out of a player.

You mean just players from this season?

Armero, Bocchetti (not saying you're wrong there, but as soon as he had a bad game you turned on him completely), DS is suddenly sh!t to you after a couple of bad matches and months out injured, same with SES, Destro, Cerci, Suso, who you were all about and then suddenly, nah he's not good enough, etc.

My point is, that you can be right about certain players. But I prefer to give them a longer chance then suddenly decalring them a joke or bad after one bad or really terrible performance.

It's not like I don't agree with you about certain players from that list, but the quickness of your decision about them is a bit unfair.

Have we really seen enough of Suso to make any sort of logical assessment? No imo, far from it.

Are Bocchetti, Armero and Cerci terrible? Yes, I didn't want any of them in the first place. But I still gave them a chance, I gave Cerci even more than that before I completely threw in the towel and this coming from someone who was adamant about how average he is and his season at Torino was nothing but a fluke for a player who's pretty much failed in any decent side he's played for.

For me, I judge a player on a wider span of games than just 2 or 3, especially if they're new to the side.

QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 6 2015, 01:55 PM) *
Even SES excelled in our last few matches. Even Pippo looked like a manager.

Van Ginkel had been consistently good for the last 2 months though, he took a bit of time to get into a rhythm once Pippo started playing him regularly after February, but the last 2 months or so were very good from him.

We only looked decent in the last 2 or 3 games, which is not what I meant for Van Ginkel
X-Offender
Suso: "I can play the #10 role and be a starter for this team"

Link

king.gif
milanbuf88
QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jul 8 2015, 01:51 PM) *
Suso: "I can play the #10 role and be a starter for this team"

Link

king.gif

I'm not sure he's up to that yet but I like his confidence and he should definitely be given a fair shot at proving himself this preseason. He's probably good enough to be the first back up for that spot depending on tactical requirements.
han2503
I think if we're looking for someone to play the "Di Maria" role, Suso is the only guy that can be realistically considered. This SES nonsense for that position is just laughable and makes you think, do these people ever watch these players play?
Danny
QUOTE (han2503 @ Jul 8 2015, 08:16 PM) *
I think if we're looking for someone to play the "Di Maria" role, Suso is the only guy that can be realistically considered. This SES nonsense for that position is just laughable and makes you think, do these people ever watch these players play?


There's no such thing as the 'Di Maria' role. There's only a player called Di Maria who plays the way he does.
han2503
QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 8 2015, 09:25 PM) *
There's no such thing as the 'Di Maria' role. There's only a player called Di Maria who plays the way he does.

That's what they're saying they'll be trying SES at though, which is just baffling. At least Suso comes closer to what is needed to play in that position in the way that Di Maria does.

I think playing an attacking mid/winger there can be a "thing". But Carlo is the master of doing that, just like he's the one who created a position for Pirlo to occupy. But this is something that can only happen in very specific situations. I'm not advocating that we try it. I've actually been on my knees begging for a proper creative CM for a while now, I don't want to see SES or Suso or anyone else trying to fill that role.

But if it really came down to it, Suso is the only one in our squad who can be tried out there, and maybe Honda
han2503
Bumped. Back from loan and will most likely be staying as Montella has been impressed. Hopefully he'll be a dependable option for next season.

I'll be bumping up the players' thread and updating it with the current roster.

Abbiati, Menez, Nocerino, Agazzi, Alex, Mexes and Balotelli all moved to the past players section
Fishdoll
Suso has renewed through 2022, officially. Picture with Fassone & Mirabelli and everything.




(-1 cookie.gif to the penguins for letting this thread go idle for more than a year. Suso is really good! Also he has a nice tushie.)

X-Offender
He should be switched to the right, with Bonaventura on the left. Sadly we don't have a capable LFW except for Borini.
Fishdoll
Hrm. Details on the contract renewal: there's apparently a buyout of 50 million. Not sure I like that.
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