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han2503
I was going to post this yesterday but I left it for today, which is a shame since people are rating the mercato in the transfers thread already. (Maybe we can move those posts here so we can close that thread?)

This is a rundown of the transfers we made and the profits/money spent on transfers.










We loaned even more Primavera kids than in these charts but majority of them never even stepped onto the pitch for us. I used various sources to get my numbers, mostly Gazzetta for the wages to try to be as accurate as I can with the number
Jack Sparrow
Making a transfer profit in a season without CL is crucial. Fair play to the management here.
han2503
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Sep 2 2014, 09:19 AM) *
Making a transfer profit in a season without CL is crucial. Fair play to the management here.

Can we move your rating post over here jack, so we can close that transfer thread and open a winter one?
Jack Sparrow
Yeah. Which post though? unsure.gif I've been at work all day, so I've posted quite a lot. tongue.gif
dst
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Sep 2 2014, 12:45 PM) *
unsure.gif I've been at work all day, so I've posted quite a lot. tongue.gif

laugh.gif laugh.gif
han2503
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Sep 2 2014, 10:45 AM) *
Yeah. Which post though? unsure.gif I've been at work all day, so I've posted quite a lot. tongue.gif

laugh.gif laugh.gif Nice Jack

The one where you analysed out transfer market (the long one) did you write that while at work as well? FOR SHAME!!!
Jack Sparrow
QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 2 2014, 06:03 PM) *
laugh.gif laugh.gif Nice Jack

The one where you analysed out transfer market (the long one) did you write that while at work as well? FOR SHAME!!!


Yeah. I was waiting for some other people to complete something that I needed to get done. I couldn't twiddle my fingers, whereas typing furiously on the keyboard fools enough people into thinking you're busy.

My post coming up next.
Jack Sparrow
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Sep 2 2014, 01:46 PM) *
Summer transfer window closes and Galliani zone was in full effect. I loved it. It leads me to believe that we're getting some groove back, some of our old habits are resurfacing. I'm actually optimistic about this season.

My opinions on the transfer window : 7.5 /10 Or I'd give it a B+. It would have been an A if we had sold Balo for around 10 million more.

I don't have too much complaints about Bonaventura. I see no point in keeping Cristante as one for the future when what we need is someone who can come in and deliver in the present. Galliani tried to push him on loan to Benfica or to other Serie A sides. He refused the loan. Also refused a move within Italy.

Instead we got a highly rated 25 year old (That's still relatively young) who has the same name as myself, and who cried with joy when he signed the contract. wub.gif

Bonaventura is an excellent player who always f@cks up Inter when they play against him, he can play wide or through the middle. Mostly an AM, not a mezzala, but will give us cover for Honda and SeS besides slotting in the mid-3.

---

On the transfer window, I think it was an excellent garage clean up. We've made two mistakes in purchasing Agazzi and selling Balo for at least 5 million too less. But we've cleared out a lot of dead-wood and made some good acquisitions for players who will only be playing in one tournament.

I still think we could have gotten rid of 2 more players to cut down the squad size. I feel we don't need a squad size of more than 24 and now we have 27. I would prefer to have Essien, Albertazzi and Saponara out , the latter two on loan.

As for Cristante and playing time, I mentioned this before. For the mid-3 we had 8 players.

1. De Jong
2. Montolivo
3. Muntari
4. Poli
5. van Ginkel
6. Essien
7. Saponara
8. Cristante

I'm listing them in the order with which they're picked into the team. And two players in consecutive arrangement are interchangeable. For example, it's an either/or between Muntari and Poli based on fitness and tactics.

Once again 8 players for 3 positions. For argument's sake let me assume that Essien is crap, and Cristante is better than Saponara in the mid three. Even then he moves up at max to position 6 and perhaps competes with van Ginkel?

van Ginkel is definitely a better player than Cristante at this stage- a better passer and a better scorer of goals and 2 years older than Bryan.

So all in all at this rate, Cristante AT BEST doesn't get more than 10-15 games a season with us in this team. He's at an age and a talent level where he needs to play 20+ games to ever develop into something good. But those 20+ games are going to be a series of B-level performances until he builds up skill to be a starter. Perhaps 3 or 4 years down the line?

Milan cannot have B-level performances from someone in the mid-3, because we are playing a 4-3-3 and we'll get screwed AND the rest of the team isn't as strong to compensate for one player not being good enough in that area.

No player in the modern day has the patience to sit around and wait. All our players who have left the team left because we couldn't give them space. And all of them took their own period of playing 20 games a season before they shone elsewhere.

For e.g. Aubameyang? 4 years in the wilderness of Ligue 1(playing an average of 20 games a season) before he broke big into St.Etienne and subsequently into Dortmund.
The same with Matteo Darmian, who spent the same 4 years in Serie A wilderness before breaking big last year with Torino.


Cristante did not want a loan. He didn't want Serie A for reasons I respect. He's joined Benfica, probably under Rui Costa's wing. I dearly hope we have got a buy back option for sentimental reasons. I don't see him becoming much more than a starter for tier-2 teams at the current rate. For context, we bought SeS at the exact same age as Cristante is now, for more than double the price. And we hardly consider SeS to be a world class athlete.

The last player who I can think of, who did stick with the team through this growing up period as a part-timer before establishing himself fully was Ambrosini. Of course he got the benefits of it, but that's very rare that a player will sacrifice his early years plying along as a substitute.

---

This youth project thing everyone harps about - comes at a cost. The cost being present performances. Our youth players at the moment are not at the level of Bayern Munich or Barcelona (the gold standards), at the same time it's not too bad, since our players are actually finding playing time in the top leagues. We shall improve gradually of course. But it's impossible to have a 2-3 year turn around time of youth products.

Even Chelsea and Man City with near infinite resources have failed at this.

We shall probably be some time till we get prodigies who in their teens can walk into the first team. Until then be patient on the youth project.

han2503
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Sep 2 2014, 11:38 AM) *
Yeah. I was waiting for some other people to complete something that I needed to get done. I couldn't twiddle my fingers, whereas typing furiously on the keyboard fools enough people into thinking you're busy.

My post coming up next.

I was hoping that instead of quoting it we could move the entire line of posts you and Danny posted in the transfers thread over here so the discussion can continue and we can close that thread out now that the window is closed. Is it possible to do that? I've never tried.

laugh.gif Good strategy for work biggrin.gif
TriniKing_CE
According to GdS, Milan had the 3rd best mercato in Serie A.




...I have to say, I am pleased overall.

See my earlier post
: http://www.milanfan.com/forums/index.php?s...mp;#entry396292
han2503
QUOTE (TriniKing_CE @ Sep 2 2014, 12:37 PM) *
According to GdS, Milan had the 3rd best mercato in Serie A.




...I have to say, I am pleased overall.

See my earlier post
: http://www.milanfan.com/forums/index.php?s...mp;#entry396292

Like we were talking about in the Serie A thread, Juve are mostly getting that mark based on the fact that they didn't lose Vidal and Pogba, other than that, they didn't really make any signings to really improve their squad to go from just steamrolling Serie A to CL contenders
kurtsimonw
I'd say 7.

I think letting Balo go for a relatively small amount and not replacing him with any kind of real quality loses some marks. I'm also disappointed with selling Cristante. A few transfers, like Torres, that I'm not happy with.

However I think we bought in quite a bit of depth for not much money. Rami and Alex mean 4 serviceable CBs now. Glad to have Poli permanently, Armero is a big upgrade on Constant and will mean MDS being injured isn't as big of an issue now. Bonaventura I'm pleased with, same with Menez. Diego Lopez is a very good signing.
han2503
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Sep 2 2014, 01:03 PM) *
I'd say 7.

I think letting Balo go for a relatively small amount and not replacing him with any kind of real quality loses some marks. I'm also disappointed with selling Cristante. A few transfers, like Torres, that I'm not happy with.

However I think we bought in quite a bit of depth for not much money. Rami and Alex mean 4 serviceable CBs now. Glad to have Poli permanently, Armero is a big upgrade on Constant and will mean MDS being injured isn't as big of an issue now. Bonaventura I'm pleased with, same with Menez. Diego Lopez is a very good signing.

Agreed on most counts, the Balo transfer mostly p!ssed me off because of the relatively small fee Liverpool paid us in this current market climate, not to mention the fact that they spent big money on much lesser players like Lovren and Lallana.

However, footballing wise, I think it was a good move, I'm not predicting that Torres will be a prolific scorer for us, but I think he'll fit Pippo's system much better

As I've said I'm pretty indifferent to Cristante's departure, 6m for a kid who's only made 5 pro appearances with only 1 being as a starter is good business, and until Benfica sell him for 30m or something we can't really say it was otherwise at this point
Danny
QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 2 2014, 12:18 PM) *
Agreed on most counts, the Balo transfer mostly p!ssed me off because of the relatively small fee Liverpool paid us in this current market climate,


Real paid £20M for Kroos - who's surely worth double that in this climate.
han2503
QUOTE (Danny @ Sep 2 2014, 09:51 PM) *
Real paid £20M for Kroos - who's surely worth double that in this climate.

Last I read it was 34m Euros, don't know if the £ -> € would bring that conversion, but 34m is a lot of money still.

We sold Balo too cheaply, especially when Liverpool spent £25m on Lallana and were the second highest spenders in the EPL.

They bought Carroll for twice what we sold them Balo for (!!), It's the usual with us, Galliani just lowballs prices for our players. You think if Balo was at Porto for example, even with all his problems, they would let him go for just €20m??
kurtsimonw
Kroos had 1 year left on his contract which changes his value drastically. He'd have gone for over £30m otherwise I would imagine.
han2503
@ Jack, I finally had some time to read your monster post, and I pretty much agreed with the majority of what you wrote, even your rating of 7.5 is pretty accurate.

I was hoping for at least 2 more players to be sold and Sapo or Niang to be loaned to get some much needed experience. But I guess that's that for this window.

I don't think we did anything spectacular in terms of bringing players in aside from Diego Lopez, because that's the only move that can be deemed as genius by Galliani, the rest was just scavenging for opportunities rather than having a clear cut plan and following through with it.

I'd probably go a little lower on the 7.5 and give a 7 because of the Balo transfer in the last week of the window when they knew they would be selling him for months before hand and then having to scramble for a striker with no replacement ready or even a specific one in mind. It just reeks of the terrible planning and strategy Galliani always goes into a transfer window with, not to mention the terrible fee we got for him considering today's market.

I'm mostly giving a 7 because of the work that was done to remove a lot of the unwanted players still on the roster, even though the problem was self-inflicted at least we've addressed a large chunk of it even if it is just on loan, hopefully we'll sell a couple more in January.

However to hail Galliani as some mercato genius is such a ridiculous stretch that I can't help but laugh. It's his strategy to starve the fans of any sort of good activity throughout the transfer window, so much so that they will be ecstatic with anything he throws at them on the final few days when everyone is desperate and lost hope.

So I rate this a 7 mercato, we did some good work, good players that improve the squad were brought in, both for the first 11 and the backup department and we removed some deadweight players. There's still more work to be done for us to be competitive but after the nightmare of last season, I think this is a satisfying outcome.
Rossoneri7
We got Balotelli from City for 21.4M Euros. Did City make a bad decision to sell him at that price?

Food for thought.
X-Offender
I would give it a 6.5. We made a mistake selling Balo for just €20 million. Furthermore, we should have reduced the squad size to 25-26 players max instead of 28. We didn't end up signing a quality winger, and van Ginkel's purchase is just a loan with no right of purchase. If all these issues were addressed properly, then it'd have been a 7, or even 7.5.
Fillipo Simone
The thing that makes me pissed is not Balotelli. I don't know, maybe 20M was the right amount. But selling Paloschi and Cristante was a mistake if you ask me. I'd rather try them out then keep clinging on guys like Pazzini or "developing" Chelsea's talent.
han2503
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Sep 3 2014, 12:05 PM) *
We got Balotelli from City for 21.4M Euros. Did City make a bad decision to sell him at that price?

Food for thought.

He was younger then and everything around him was about potential. He's 24 now and should in theory be able to lead a team and should have at least matured and honed his skills more. He should be worth more than that now. In fact we made a loss on him going by the number you posted so how is it a good deal?

Liverpool wanted him, they've spent silly money on players like Lovren for example, who isn't that good and is a CB not a forward.

We always do this with our players, just like we did with Silva and Ibra. Galliani just doesn't negotiate a good price for us, I'll repeat the same question I posed to Danny which he didn't answer, You think that if Balo was at Porto for example, they would have settled for less than what they deemed a good price for Balo? Even with all his issues, he's still a star player, both on and off the pitch, he will attract more income simply be being on the team, let alone the fact that he's a match winner.

No, they would have bled any team who wanted him dry. Yet we simply don't do that, either because Galliani has his hands tied or because (which is the most plausible option imo) he's not in tune with today's football reality, and he acts like this on both sides of the coin, whether he's the one doing the selling or the purchasing
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Sep 3 2014, 01:05 PM) *
We got Balotelli from City for 21.4M Euros. Did City make a bad decision to sell him at that price?

Food for thought.

I think the difference is that he'd already been there 3 years so his contract was beginning to run down, he was also 3rd choice. Here, he was pretty much our most valuable asset, had a long time to run on his contract.

Italian clubs have a history of making bad deals when selling players though IMO.
Rossoneri7
I see where you boys are coming from, yet I suspect his attitude wasn't given a higher -ive points from your side. Had he done a Kaka or Shevchenko then Madrid or PSG would change our views completely on the matter by knocking on our door. Him leaving us was a must IMHO, simply like when a limb has to be amputated for a body to live. His attitude was letting us back, without him around the team has a common denominator and that is Milan; Balo's denominator was Balotelli. Add to that we will need to compensate for income lost due to lack of Europe.

@han he was bought from inter @ 29M Euros.
han2503
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Sep 3 2014, 03:49 PM) *
I see where you boys are coming from, yet I suspect his attitude wasn't given a higher -ive points from your side. Had he done a Kaka or Shevchenko then Madrid or PSG would change our views completely on the matter by knocking on our door. Him leaving us was a must IMHO, simply like when a limb has to be amputated for a body to live. His attitude was letting us back, without him around the team has a common denominator and that is Milan; Balo's denominator was Balotelli. Add to that we will need to compensate for income lost due to lack of Europe.

@han he was bought from inter @ 29M Euros.

Be that as it may, he's a star player no matter how you look at it, he was our only star player. Liverpool wanted him as they had no main striker and hadn't replaced Suarez. I'm just saying that Galliani should have negotiated and held out for more, Liverpool would have ultimately given into our demands as they wanted the player and they have money to splurge just like City did when they bought him in the first place from Inter.

We made a loss on him, that's just not acceptable when he was our most important player.

And yes, I tend to agree that he had to be moved on as the team ends up playing for Balotelli when he's here and he's just not a leader, but he was still a big draw and every football journalist/expert/observer has said that the 20m we got for him was too little.

I know the WC skewed his price because the Italian media was all too happy to blame it all on him when he was one of the few who actually contributed a little to the cause, but Galliani and Raiola have both said that we knew we were going to sell him since May, so this again begs the question, why didn't we sell him before the WC? When his price wasn't altered because of a bad Italy showing? He was just coming off his best season (statistically speaking), if we were already decided on selling him then we should have done it before the WC. That would have been good planning and would have allowed Galliani more time to find a replacement
milanbuf88
If we had sold him before the WC and then he went on to a tournament similar to Euro 2012 his value would have exploded and you'd be criticizing Galliani for selling too early.
Rossoneri7
Sure, except there is a missing link there, no? Like something we don't know just like we didn't know the transfer and fee was already agreed three months ago, until all three parties decided to break the silence. Hence there very well could have been a price of 30M slapped on him, except no one wanted to pay that?

There is an Arab proverb, 'When the reason is known, there will be no more wonder'.
Balotelli has potential, City bought him from inter because of that, later sold him to us for less, we handed him off to Pool for less, and am I the only one seeing a pattern here? The trend? Mourinho of all people threw the inter prodigy out with all his potential. I wish Balotelli all the happiness and success in his life, yet I truly believe Milan will be better off without him. His potential is there, his mind is sporadically there. 20M IMO is too much for Balotelli, remember Adriano of Parma the inter? Professional conduct is a prerequisite for players in top flight leagues, and we always had our coaches cover up for his non-professionalism. Just like Adriano had a potential to score 60 goals a season, what became of him?

I'm happy with our window, we upgraded a lot on last season. As if refined the quality of play and players. Doubt we would have a strong 'team' performance in that first game with Balotelli onboard.
han2503
QUOTE (milanbuf88 @ Sep 3 2014, 04:40 PM) *
If we had sold him before the WC and then he went on to a tournament similar to Euro 2012 his value would have exploded and you'd be criticizing Galliani for selling too early.

They wanted to sell him all along, so what's the point of keeping him until the last 2 weeks or so and then scrambling to find a replacement?

How Italy performed in the WC is all ifs and buts. But it would have made more sense. If we sold him for around 30m before the WC his price after it if Italy had had a decent WC (which they didn't) wouldn't have fluctuated too much more than that.
han2503
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Sep 3 2014, 05:00 PM) *
Sure, except there is a missing link there, no? Like something we don't know just like we didn't know the transfer and fee was already agreed three months ago, until all three parties decided to break the silence. Hence there very well could have been a price of 30M slapped on him, except no one wanted to pay that?

There is an Arab proverb, 'When the reason is known, there will be no more wonder'.
Balotelli has potential, City bought him from inter because of that, later sold him to us for less, we handed him off to Pool for less, and am I the only one seeing a pattern here? The trend? Mourinho of all people threw the inter prodigy out with all his potential. I wish Balotelli all the happiness and success in his life, yet I truly believe Milan will be better off without him. His potential is there, his mind is sporadically there. 20M IMO is too much for Balotelli, remember Adriano of Parma the inter? Professional conduct is a prerequisite for players in top flight leagues, and we always had our coaches cover up for his non-professionalism. Just like Adriano had a potential to score 60 goals a season, what became of him?

I'm happy with our window, we upgraded a lot on last season. As if refined the quality of play and players. Doubt we would have a strong 'team' performance in that first game with Balotelli onboard.

I still say we should have at the least held out for 5m more, especially when you consider that we're so desperate for money. It just feels like that if any club were to offer Galliani anything above a certain point .i.e actual money he'll yell SOLD!! Anything really to bring in some cash, even if it's a small amount, I truly fear what will happen next summer should SES have a break out season and PSG or some other team come knocking with anything above 25m, because we all know that's enough to more than just tickle Galliani's fancy

The rest about Balo and his conduct/professionalism I wholeheartedly agree with you. He disrupted the team too much
Danny
QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 2 2014, 09:12 PM) *
Last I read it was 34m Euros, don't know if the £ -> € would bring that conversion, but 34m is a lot of money still.

We sold Balo too cheaply, especially when Liverpool spent £25m on Lallana and were the second highest spenders in the EPL.

They bought Carroll for twice what we sold them Balo for (!!), It's the usual with us, Galliani just lowballs prices for our players. You think if Balo was at Porto for example, even with all his problems, they would let him go for just €20m??


Well Benfica let Luiz with his problems go for the same value so, yeah, probably.

Re: Carroll and Lallana. English players cost double what they're worth. Look at Welbeck for £18M.
kurtsimonw
It's not English players, it's Premier League players. Reason being that the Premier League clubs get ridiculous amounts of money from the tv deals, they make prices get silly. It'll only get worse too.
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