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Jack Sparrow
I think this is a must read for us Milanfans on exactly what is happening.

I just skimmed through at the moment, but a few things stand out.

1. Our wage bill has been increasing and is absolutely insane!!
2. Our commercial income is actually very good considering our market reach.
3. We are really losing out on matchday income at the stadium.

Milan's Financial State
kurtsimonw
We need to start building our own stadium.

Otherwise Serie A is going to turn into the EPL in the 1990s and Juve will be Man U.
Jack Sparrow
Yeah..but as you can see in the article...to build a stadium we need to take on a loan. To take on a loan we need to clear our debts. To clear our debts we need more income. But to get more income we need our own stadium. biggrin.gif
William405
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ May 4 2012, 12:29 PM) *
Yeah..but as you can see in the article...to build a stadium we need to take on a loan. To take on a loan we need to clear our debts. To clear our debts we need more income. But to get more income we need our own stadium. biggrin.gif


We need Silvio... wink.gif
Jack Sparrow
That move is checkmated too, thanks to FFP.
Zed.D
Jack,

Do you think we'd build our own stadium if we cleared our debts? we had the chance to do it before FFP was introduced. nah, I think B&G are simply too sentimental about San Siro. we missed our chance to move away from San Siro, but missed it and now probably can never do it as things stand.

Just great.

QUOTE
Mathieu Flamini Midfielder 28 4,500,000

Gennaro Gattuso Midfielder 34 4,000,000

Gianluca Zambrotta Defender 35 3,500,000

Clarence Seedorf Midfileder 36 3,000,000


No comment... huh.gif
Zed.D
Thanks for posting this article, btw. very informative.
Jack Sparrow
Yes..the wages are mind-boggling. I don't fault our new policy of offering contract discussions only at the end of the season.

I think next season, we should keep a keen eye out on the numbers. Especially with the players who are not extended.
Zed.D
QUOTE
It should be said that Barbara Berlusconi has expressed her desire to build a self owned stadium for the club.


??

Does this mean we still need to clear our debts?
han2503
The major problem here is not the San Siro. I do believe that Inter and Milan being the clubs they are and having the owners they do, should be able to come to an agreement with the Milan council. I personally don't want to see us moving to some generic FIFA stadium, just for the hell of it. The San Siro is a massive stadium and a club like Milan should not settle for some 40,000 seater.

The main problem has always been the player wages. Rino, Ambro, Flamini, Seedorf, Robinho, Zambro, etc. These guys are on massive wages, when mos of them are not even regulars on the team. It's just an unthinakble situation that Galliani simply has to deal with this summer
Zed.D
Han, do you really think we can compete at the highest level again if we only sort out our wages?

Sure we need to do that but we also need to do something about the stadium. it's astonishing that we earn less than 40 million compared to Arsenal, Barca, Man U or Real's 100+. I guess normally that number should be between 60-80 for us. 20-40 million more per year would make a good difference for us.

QUOTE
I personally don't want to see us moving to some generic FIFA stadium, just for the hell of it. The San Siro is a massive stadium and a club like Milan should not settle for some 40,000 seater.

Come on, the capacity and the design of the stadium is not even the issue.

Also:

QUOTE
the stadium is in poor condition and does not have the facilities to host sponsors and VIPs etc. For the same reasons the stadium are mostly half full as fans are not presented to the pleasant facilities a modern stadium must have.
Zed.D
QUOTE (Zed.D @ May 4 2012, 03:27 PM) *
??

Does this mean we still need to clear our debts?


That'd be no I think...

In Barbara we trust!! wub.gif
Jack Sparrow
I agree. The player wage cuts (and keep in mind we can only question the 'oldies') will save us maybe 20-25 million a season max.
acid911
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ May 4 2012, 05:56 PM) *
I agree. The player wage cuts (and keep in mind we can only question the 'oldies') will save us maybe 20-25 million a season max.

That's max enough, if you ask me. wink.gif 30 million net could mean one or two quality extra players every year.
kurtsimonw
Problem is there's a difference between saving £30m and getting £30m. Most of that money will not be re-invested, in my opinion.
acid911
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ May 4 2012, 06:07 PM) *
Problem is there's a difference between saving £30m and getting £30m. Most of that money will not be re-invested, in my opinion.

Still better than giving it away, now, is it? smile.gif unsure.gif Maldini earned 1m toward the end, and his performance was miles ahead of the above mentioned players, in that he played non-stop week in, week out. Or should I say, started every week. If they are to be retained it should probably be at that amount. 1m at most. At this time.

Or we can do almost as good by signing up good prospects or bringing them through our youth system and handing them 1 million roundabouts per season. If that 30 million is to be saved, then so be it. If invested? Nothing better.
X-Offender
There have been talks about San Siro being renovated this summer, including Sky boxes, bringing the pitch closer to the stands, removing the barriers between sectors, and a better sanitary system. It should be enough to make it a FIFA top-rated stadium, like Camp Nou and Bernabeu.
Zed.D
That doesn't solve the main issue though, it'd still be owned by the city municipality and we'll still have to pay rent.
han2503
QUOTE (Zed.D @ May 4 2012, 12:26 PM) *
Han, do you really think we can compete at the highest level again if we only sort out our wages?

Sure we need to do that but we also need to do something about the stadium. it's astonishing that we earn less than 40 million compared to Arsenal, Barca, Man U or Real's 100+. I guess normally that number should be between 60-80 for us. 20-40 million more per year would make a good difference for us.


Come on, the capacity and the design of the stadium is not even the issue.

Also:

We pay one of the highest payrolls in Europe, even when compared to clubs like Real, Barca and City, who have players like C. Ron, Messi, Aguero, Silva, etc, etc, etc. Certainly the highest one in Italy by a bit of a margin, and this when taking into account Inter don't have a meager payroll of their own. When you consider out roster, we only have 2 to 4 real super star players on the team, and even that number can be brought into question. Yet we're paying some ridiculous wages. If you think shaving off 30-40 million off that won't make a huge difference, think again. We're talking about this number per annum. So it's not a one time thing cut.

Yes, the stadium is still a huge issue. But I personally wouldn't like to see us moving out of the San Siro. If an agreement cannot be made with Inter and the City council in the future, than yes it will be something that has to be seriously considered.
Zed.D
Dude, I completely agree with what you say about the wages. hopefully this will FINALLY be the year we offload those veterans who are of no use anymore (I tried to be as polite as possible!).
han2503
QUOTE (Zed.D @ May 4 2012, 05:13 PM) *
Dude, I completely agree with what you say about the wages. hopefully this will FINALLY be the year we offload those veterans who are of no use anymore (I tried to be as polite as possible!).

biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

I sometimes feel bad when I look at someone like Rino for examle. A player who has always stood as one of my personal favourites, and now when I watch him all I can think about is how he's just dead weight in this team in the capacity of a player. I think he still has a lot to conribute to this club, because he's as passionate as they come and is still hugely important within the group. But as a player, he's only a hindrance at this point
TriniKing_CE
QUOTE (han2503 @ May 4 2012, 02:26 PM) *
biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

I sometimes feel bad when I look at someone like Rino for examle. A player who has always stood as one of my personal favourites, and now when I watch him all I can think about is how he's just dead weight in this team in the capacity of a player. I think he still has a lot to conribute to this club, because he's as passionate as they come and is still hugely important within the group. But as a player, he's only a hindrance at this point

+1 sleep.gif
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE (han2503 @ May 4 2012, 08:26 PM) *
biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

I sometimes feel bad when I look at someone like Rino for examle. A player who has always stood as one of my personal favourites, and now when I watch him all I can think about is how he's just dead weight in this team in the capacity of a player. I think he still has a lot to conribute to this club, because he's as passionate as they come and is still hugely important within the group. But as a player, he's only a hindrance at this point

It's sad, yes. I wouldn't say he's a hindrance, but I agree with you. My only demand is - if we're letting go world class veterans like Zambrotta or Seedorf then please bring in decent replacements with the capacity to become WC. If we're again gonna sign more Mesbah's and Taiwo's then releasing would be a mistake.
Zed.D
Kolarov doesn't seem to play much for Citeh. instead of signing someone we don't need (Tevez/Balo) for arguably the same price (if not more), we should focus on him while he's out of favor with Mancio.
han2503
QUOTE (Zed.D @ May 5 2012, 06:32 AM) *
Kolarov doesn't seem to play much for Citeh. instead of signing someone we don't need (Tevez/Balo) for arguably the same price (if not more), we should focus on him while he's out of favor with Mancio.

Yeah he'd be an ok signing for the LB position, nothin spactacular but he should do the job better than all of the others combined. Plus he has Serie A experiance.

The only problem is that City would most likely want to keep him since they basically want 2 at least good to great players for every position
Zed.D
Oh, I don't want spectacular players as they remain dreams for us with the financial state of the club being as it is. I'm very OK with Kolarov.

Can Citeh afford two great players for every position though? I read they're HUGELY in debt.. they'll have to slow down a bit on the spending.
han2503
QUOTE (Zed.D @ May 5 2012, 07:22 AM) *
Oh, I don't want spectacular players as they remain dreams for us with the financial state of the club being as it is. I'm very OK with Kolarov.

Can Citeh afford two great players for every position though? I read they're HUGELY in debt.. they'll have to slow down a bit on the spending.

The dept can always be covered though.
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (han2503 @ May 5 2012, 11:59 AM) *
The dept can always be covered though.


How?
han2503
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ May 6 2012, 06:31 AM) *
How?

You really believe that Man City will "play fair" when the FFP rules come into play? They've got endless money backing them up. Those depts will be handled one way or the other.
kurtsimonw
FFP won't work.

English clubs, City inparticular, will keep spending and say "Yeah, what're you gonna do about it?" and nothing will be done. The English clubs that overspend are also the big draws for FIFA/UEFA, so they're hardly going to ban them from Europe are they?

These rules are a joke anyways, just proof that they're doing everything they can to give top clubs an extra advantage.
X-Offender
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ May 6 2012, 11:54 AM) *
FFP won't work.

English clubs, City inparticular, will keep spending and say "Yeah, what're you gonna do about it?" and nothing will be done. The English clubs that overspend are also the big draws for FIFA/UEFA, so they're hardly going to ban them from Europe are they?

These rules are a joke anyways, just proof that they're doing everything they can to give top clubs an extra advantage.


That's what you think, but I wouldn't be surprised if they actually do ban them from European competitions. Platini is stubborn ****, he always wants things to go his way.
kurtsimonw
I just don't see it, same with Barca.

The only thing FFP does is guarentee Madrid whatever success they want. Even after signing Ronaldo they made a profit that year, it's absurd how much money they make. They can sign who they want, while other clubs - Barca included - make a loss.

I don't see how it works. Yet another thing that's not been thought through at all.
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (han2503 @ May 6 2012, 12:01 PM) *
You really believe that Man City will "play fair" when the FFP rules come into play? They've got endless money backing them up. Those depts will be handled one way or the other.


Its debt tongue.gif

City have a massive sponsorship deal, the biggest in England I believe, that's where their money will be coming from. Mansour cant be pumping money in to cover losses, but there could put in place an SPV established to buy off City's debt and have it settled in that way, however not sure if that is legitimate under new FFP rules.

Hence, to answer your question City has to play fair, however its UEFA's tolerance at allowing these 'BIG' clubs more time to get things in line ... That we have yet to see, but cant pass premature judgments like that han smile.gif
acid911
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ May 6 2012, 03:08 PM) *
Its debt

Got him! friends.gif
han2503
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ May 6 2012, 11:08 AM) *
Its debt tongue.gif

City have a massive sponsorship deal, the biggest in England I believe, that's where their money will be coming from. Mansour cant be pumping money in to cover losses, but there could put in place an SPV established to buy off City's debt and have it settled in that way, however not sure if that is legitimate under new FFP rules.

Hence, to answer your question City has to play fair, however its UEFA's tolerance at allowing these 'BIG' clubs more time to get things in line ... That we have yet to see, but cant pass premature judgments like that han smile.gif

biggrin.gif Don't get on the acid train!!!

You just identified one method for them to slip on through. And I'm sure there are even more ways to bend things around.

But like kurt, I don't believe UEFA will be banning any top club. They're all about the money, and stopping clubs like City,. Chelsea, Man U, Milan, Inter, Barca would mean huge losses for them. They'd be ok with leaving out some Russian team, they're all in for applying the rules in those circumstances, but when it does not suite them they're willing to look the other way.
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (han2503 @ May 6 2012, 03:05 PM) *
biggrin.gif Don't get on the acid train!!!

You just identified one method for them to slip on through. And I'm sure there are even more ways to bend things around.

But like kurt, I don't believe UEFA will be banning any top club. They're all about the money, and stopping clubs like City,. Chelsea, Man U, Milan, Inter, Barca would mean huge losses for them. They'd be ok with leaving out some Russian team, they're all in for applying the rules in those circumstances, but when it does not suite them they're willing to look the other way.


I identified one method and can come up with another five, but if that is considered legitimate under the FFP rules, we have yet to see.

Remember han, the BIG clubs asked for the FFP rules, they asked because they wanted to be protected from big spending clubs like Chelsea, City, and the likes ... Also to even out the playing field, but above all it was the big clubs that pushed for it.

Now whether UEFA will ban clubs, we can not 'prematurely' decide about that, we can only hope that UEFA will tolerate stuff and take clubs on a case-by-case basis to sort out certain problems (such as our financial strength, cuz within 3 years we could be bankrupt under FFP rules).


Big clubs bring money to UEFA, yes they do, but how come the FFP rules didn't get any resentment from the top clubs? apart from Wenger who complained about City, and in City's defense they signed a sponsorship deal worth $X and that was all they had to do to secure funds.

Again, I believe the FFP will be implemented slowly so as not to cause a shock, but at the same time clubs have to show their commitment (for example we implemented a wage cap amongst other things) ...

In conclusion, you cant say much about it until it has been implemented.
han2503
QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ May 6 2012, 01:22 PM) *
I identified one method and can come up with another five, but if that is considered legitimate under the FFP rules, we have yet to see.

Remember han, the BIG clubs asked for the FFP rules, they asked because they wanted to be protected from big spending clubs like Chelsea, City, and the likes ... Also to even out the playing field, but above all it was the big clubs that pushed for it.

Now whether UEFA will ban clubs, we can not 'prematurely' decide about that, we can only hope that UEFA will tolerate stuff and take clubs on a case-by-case basis to sort out certain problems (such as our financial strength, cuz within 3 years we could be bankrupt under FFP rules).


Big clubs bring money to UEFA, yes they do, but how come the FFP rules didn't get any resentment from the top clubs? apart from Wenger who complained about City, and in City's defense they signed a sponsorship deal worth $X and that was all they had to do to secure funds.

Again, I believe the FFP will be implemented slowly so as not to cause a shock, but at the same time clubs have to show their commitment (for example we implemented a wage cap amongst other things) ...

In conclusion, you cant say much about it until it has been implemented.

Did we really implement a wage cap? Because Ibra earns a huge 9m per year...
acid911
You guys do know that the FFP is just plain balderdash, right? huh.gif unsure.gif Anything they want to implement can be surpassed, all their rules bended by any willing soul. All these filthy rich guys (as well as those with dirty black money who want to turn it white) need to do is funnel the funds via sponsorship deals.

If Berlusconi wanted he can throw in 50m any given year using a fake front company. Same goes for almost every other big club, if they want the cash, they can bring it in bypassing any UEFA rules and regulations.
Jack Sparrow
Yeah..but that article also talked about UEFA assessing the market value for sponsorship deals. So they can't really bypass that too easily.
acid911
I know, but it'll be like the rest of the financial world, the one holding the money will (almost) always be one step ahead of the one doing the auditing. sleep.gif In theory FFP may be a good idea that took some time coming, but only in theory. If I am a Russian oil tycoon, or have loads and loads of black money, football is my ticket to white.

European football in particular. How else do you think we arrived at the massively inflated figures of today.
kurtsimonw
If they actually enforced this, a lot of football clubs would just die. I don't think Platini graps the idea that the majority of teams make a loss, so what are they meant to do? Sell players every year to break even until they have nobody left? If enforced properly, you might get 10-12 teams that can get into Europe?

Just another way to keep the rich clubs richer (in terms of success) and give the smaller clubs even less hope of success.
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (han2503 @ May 6 2012, 09:24 PM) *
Did we really implement a wage cap? Because Ibra earns a huge 9m per year...


Yes we did, with the exception of Ibra of course.

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ May 7 2012, 11:51 AM) *
If they actually enforced this, a lot of football clubs would just die. I don't think Platini graps the idea that the majority of teams make a loss, so what are they meant to do? Sell players every year to break even until they have nobody left? If enforced properly, you might get 10-12 teams that can get into Europe?

Just another way to keep the rich clubs richer (in terms of success) and give the smaller clubs even less hope of success.


Well, if FFP was implemented, you wont have high wages/transfer fees anymore. Financials of clubs will be improved if you have a regulatory body sanctioning them.

Smaller clubs don't have to worry about complying, as they are not even participating in Europe, Medium sized clubs will, but this system only serves to even the playing field and maybe giving a Greek team a chance of a EL final?

Again, you guys just can not jump to conclusions when the FFP has yet to be put in practice, assumptions are one thing and conclusions are another.

ps .. I see opportunity in the FFP, just that the clubs need time to get accustomed to it.
Jack Sparrow
QUOTE
The Mayor of Naples has presented plans for the new stadium, which will resemble “a shell at the feet of Mount Vesuvius.”

President Aurelio De Laurentiis has repeatedly stated he wants to construct a new arena for the club to replace the San Paolo or at least restructure it.

“For three more years Napoli will play at the San Paolo. Once the new stadium in the Ponticelli area is completed, work will begin on restructuring the San Paolo,” Mayor Luigi De Magistris told Radio Crc.

“The shell at the feet of Mount Vesuvius is a proposal put forward by the council for the construction of a new stadium, an activity I have said I will do from the start of my work as Mayor.

“Finally someone put forward a serious project and it involves the construction of a new arena in the Ponticelli area and a restyling of the San Paolo.

“We want it to be not only a stadium, but a stadium-arena where other than football games it represents a meeting place for youngsters, a cinema, shops and gyms.

“De Laurentiis will participate in the construction of a new stadium, as any project will be made in conjunction with Napoli. In 2014 the contract between the council and Napoli football club expires, so we have to work both on renewing that and ensuring participation in the new stadium.

“In any case, over the next three years the San Paolo will also be improved and renewed, as we are working with De Laurentiis on this. We’ll improve the toilets, pitch-side advertising boards, the pitch and other significant alterations.”


How come there is no transparency when it comes to Milan?! sad.gif
acid911
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ May 10 2012, 02:21 PM) *
How come there is no transparency when it comes to Milan?!

That's exactly what I asked for in the other thread, yesterday. sad.gif Where does all the money go?!
Jack Sparrow
No I meant transparency on the stadium plans.

The money goes into the wage bill we already know this. 230 million revenue and 192.8 on wages. biggrin.gif
acid911
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ May 10 2012, 03:20 PM) *
No I meant transparency on the stadium plans.
The money goes into the wage bill we already know this. 230 million revenue and 192.8 on wages.

I know, and it shouldn't, we should try and cut it down to 100/120 million at most. dry.gif And also increase the revenue any way we can (even if it means exploring new markets like Korea/Japan as I said). And then try and cut down on injuries at all costs, that's the most important part.

It does look like they are saying goodbye to heavily-paid seniors now, and chaps like Flamini, etc. Which is good.
Jack Sparrow
Yes...and look how wonderfully that has worked for Arsenal. tongue.gif

I think our commercial income is going well. We have a proper strategy there. Perhaps they're taking on issues one at a time. This season fix the wage bill. Next season fix the stadium problem. So on and so on...
acid911
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ May 10 2012, 04:49 PM) *
Yes...and look how wonderfully that has worked for Arsenal.

Wait a minute, did you not say something exactly along these lines in another thread. huh.gif laugh.gif

QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ May 10 2012, 04:49 PM) *
I think our commercial income is going well. We have a proper strategy there. Perhaps they're taking on issues one at a time. This season fix the wage bill. Next season fix the stadium problem. So on and so on...

Hope so, man. smile.gif Let's just say that compared to our current standings (financially and Milan as a brand), I have always felt we should have achieved more these past few years, and well, dead weight should have been replaced with cheaper, younger and quality players right after the 2007 win. But let's hope for the best now.
Jack Sparrow
An article on Gazzetto dello Sport saying that we are chasing some serious investment this season. Apparently the options mooted are Arab investment or the Hong Kong Stock Exchange. unsure.gif
acid911
Serious investment, love it, love it. sleepysmiley03.gif Wouldn't mind that one bit. It would be great if we can find some further financial footing, and become a force again - we are just this far away from being one. One or two good players, and much less injuries, and bam! We'll be the 2nd or 3rd best club in the world again.

And who knows, maybe even the best in a few years time. We certainly have the panache to compete with clubs like City, Madrid, Barcelona, Chelsea, United and Bayern. smile.gif Milan matches them blow for blow, just can't find to finish the job where it matters. With some good investment, and great signings, we can. I am sure.
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