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Jack Bauer
QUOTE
Kaka believes that Real Madrid are a bigger club than AC Milan and has admitted he is mystified by Ronaldinho's drop in form in recent seasons.

Los Merengues' Brazilian star is preparing to face his former club only four months after his Milanello departure and while he is looking forward to seeing old friends, he has also stoked things up.

Madrid and Milan both struggled last term wuthout winning silverware, but the Spanish behemoths spent €250 million in the summer and Kaka thinks that they have more global appeal.

"I think Real Madrid are slightly bigger throughout the world because people follow them everywhere. That's the greatest difference between both teams," he told a press conference on Tuesday.

"Milan have always been a strong team in Italy and in Europe. That has changed in the last two years.

"They haven’t been able to beat big teams and perhaps their signing policy has changed. What I gathered during my time there was that it was a good mix of youth and experienced players.

"It will be the first time I play against a former team of mine. It will be a new experience, but I am a professional and I now play for Real Madrid. Let’s see what happens tomorrow. I will do my very best.

I feel very Madridista. I do my best to win every game with this team because I feel well here. I am grateful to the club for everything they've done for me, both in the past and in the present."

Ronaldinho is being touted as Milan's player to watch in the game against Madrid, but Kaka does not understand why his form dipped so suddenly in recent years.

"Ronaldinho is a different player with the ball at his feet because he can place it wherever he wants. I would love to have that ability," he continued.

"I don't know what's happened to him or why he's dropped his performance level so much. He hasn't been able to make a difference on the team as he used to do at Barça or with Brazil.

"I think he needs to find motivation in order to be one of the best players in the world."

Lucas Brown, Goal.com
pacang

sad but true..
armiss
HaHaHa !!!

this is true :





You are no longer a Milan Player
kurtsimonw
Well, he's right, but it's nothing to be ashamed of. They're the biggest club in the history of the sport.
il_diavolo_mtl
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Oct 21 2009, 11:41 AM) *
Well, he's right, but it's nothing to be ashamed of. They're the biggest club in the history of the sport.

what about the montreal canadians... sad.gif
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (il_diavolo_mtl @ Oct 21 2009, 06:27 PM) *
what about the montreal canadians... sad.gif

I said history of 'the' sport (meaning football), not sport in general. I think Madrid are the biggest anyway, Yankees 2nd, you 3rd.
il_diavolo_mtl
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Oct 21 2009, 01:35 PM) *
I said history of 'the' sport (meaning football), not sport in general. I think Madrid are the biggest anyway, Yankees 2nd, you 3rd.

ok i agree with this list smile.gif
Danny
Of course he feels very Madrista, he's been engineering a move to them for well over half a year before they bid.

Why so many of our fans praise his character as some kind of loyal Rossoneri is beyond me.

If he was a loyal Rossoneri he would have stayed, just like he did when City came calling. He claimed that he wanted to stay because he wanted to be our captain and an idol - in reality he stayed because City was a rubbish option.

Soon as Madrid came in with a bid half the price of the City one he was off.

But he remains an angel in the eyes of so many of our fans. Yet Shevchenko did something similar and for many remains a devil.
Jack Bauer
QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 22 2009, 03:28 AM) *
Of course he feels very Madrista, he's been engineering a move to them for well over half a year before they bid.

Why so many of our fans praise his character as some kind of loyal Rossoneri is beyond me.

If he was a loyal Rossoneri he would have stayed, just like he did when City came calling. He claimed that he wanted to stay because he wanted to be our captain and an idol - in reality he stayed because City was a rubbish option.

Soon as Madrid came in with a bid half the price of the City one he was off.

But he remains an angel in the eyes of so many of our fans. Yet Shevchenko did something similar and for many remains a devil.

+1
Bluesummers
QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 21 2009, 05:28 PM) *
Of course he feels very Madrista, he's been engineering a move to them for well over half a year before they bid.

Why so many of our fans praise his character as some kind of loyal Rossoneri is beyond me.

If he was a loyal Rossoneri he would have stayed, just like he did when City came calling. He claimed that he wanted to stay because he wanted to be our captain and an idol - in reality he stayed because City was a rubbish option.

Soon as Madrid came in with a bid half the price of the City one he was off.

But he remains an angel in the eyes of so many of our fans. Yet Shevchenko did something similar and for many remains a devil.

boooooooo dry.gif
Zed.D
@ Danny

What if he was told he had to leave but was given the freedom of choice, so he (obviously) rejected City and (obviously) chose Madrid?

I think the fact that we didn't spend anything from his sale money this summer proves that he was sold for economical reasons (as it's been stated a million times by everyone involved in this transfer).

And even if (and that is a big IF) he engineered this transfer, at least he always gave his all whenever he put on the Rossoneri shirt. that's loyalty, not sticking to the club like a leech and playing your best football once in every 2 months.


PS: can't believe you!!
Bluesummers
QUOTE (Zed.D @ Oct 22 2009, 02:30 AM) *
@ Danny

What if he was told he had to leave but was given the freedom of choice, so he (obviously) rejected City and (obviously) chose Madrid?

I think the fact that we didn't spend anything from his sale money this summer proves that he was sold for economical reasons (as it's been stated a million times by everyone involved in this transfer).

And even if (and that is a big IF) he engineered this transfer, at least he always gave his all whenever he put on the Rossoneri shirt. that's loyalty, not sticking to the club like a leech and playing your best football once in every 2 months.


PS: can't believe you!!

thank you my love wub.gif
dst
QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 22 2009, 02:28 AM) *
Of course he feels very Madrista, he's been engineering a move to them for well over half a year before they bid.

Why so many of our fans praise his character as some kind of loyal Rossoneri is beyond me.

If he was a loyal Rossoneri he would have stayed, just like he did when City came calling. He claimed that he wanted to stay because he wanted to be our captain and an idol - in reality he stayed because City was a rubbish option.

Soon as Madrid came in with a bid half the price of the City one he was off.

But he remains an angel in the eyes of so many of our fans. Yet Shevchenko did something similar and for many remains a devil.

Why are you so biased you can't accept that nothing can be proven? You can't prove that he would go to Madrid if we did not need to sell him and we can't prove that he wouldn't. No one's right because we don't know the truth, get over it and stop talking like you know what happened and we're all blind.

The difference is, we did not have to sell Sheva.
I mostly put the blame on his wife but I still believe he could have stayed. He did came back after all and is now at Ukraine, I don't think the wife likes that so much...
dst
QUOTE (Zed.D @ Oct 22 2009, 11:30 AM) *
(as it's been stated a million times by everyone involved in this transfer).

Don't bother... he does not care about this, it's not convenient... he can only say that Kaka is an angel to our eyes when he's even more passionate in seeing a devil in him no matter what.
Jack Sparrow
Let's not entirely sully what Kaka's done for us over the years. I think there are a lot of differences between the Kaka and the Sheva case. What's common is that they're both history and we should move on...
Danny
QUOTE (dst @ Oct 22 2009, 09:40 AM) *
Don't bother... he does not care about this, it's not convenient...


I do care about this, which is why my post directly commented on it.

But you do not care about that, it's not convenient...
Danny
QUOTE (Zed.D @ Oct 22 2009, 09:30 AM) *
@ Danny

What if he was told he had to leave but was given the freedom of choice, so he (obviously) rejected City and (obviously) chose Madrid?

I think the fact that we didn't spend anything from his sale money this summer proves that he was sold for economical reasons (as it's been stated a million times by everyone involved in this transfer).

And even if (and that is a big IF) he engineered this transfer, at least he always gave his all whenever he put on the Rossoneri shirt. that's loyalty, not sticking to the club like a leech and playing your best football once in every 2 months.


PS: can't believe you!!


I find those who defend him come out with the above type of post. A post which ignores everything previously said, and which refuses to find fault with him in any way.

I stand by my view and am yet to find a convincing argument to sway me.

Feel free to keep trying though, but stop regurgitating unfounded rhetoric.
Danny
QUOTE (dst @ Oct 22 2009, 09:36 AM) *
Why are you so biased you can't accept that nothing can be proven?


Funny you say that as if it makes your view correct biggrin.gif

If nothing can be proven, then ALL of us are talking heresay. And your claims I'm wrong are unfair.
Danny
QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Oct 22 2009, 08:15 AM) *
+1


I think there's about 3 of us who don't see Kaka as some kind of angel. The majority do. That's fine.

I think both sides are guilty of trying to force their view on the opposition, and I guess that makes me guilty too.
Tennie
Actually there are four if you count Fishdoll, Danny. smile.gif

This seems to be one of those polarising issues -- I've certainly gotten into arguments about it in the past -- that is, perhaps, best left for now.
Jack Sparrow
I think it's a combination of both.

Milan either had the option of selling Kaka, or a host of other players to get X amount of money. And Kaka probably was not willing to cut down on his wage bill or anything, Man City offered more to Milan, but less to Kaka and hence he chose Madrid.

Did Kaka love Milan? Probably. But not at the cost of his own success. I remember Calciopoli, and Kaka was definitely going if were gonna get relegated. However he did stay despite not having CL.

So in my book Kaka>>> Ibra. biggrin.gif

Did the management want to sell him? Yes...but probably if Kaka had said, listen I'll play for lesser wage, a resolution might have been worked out. Kaka didn't hand in a transfer request like Sheva did, but he probably didn't chain himself to the San Siro either.


So why the hell are we arguing anyway? He's gone! He was a great champion and I'm grateful. But he wasn't the first great player to leave Milan, and he won't be the last.
Zed.D
@ Danny

I don't find your arguments convincing either. at least I base what I say on what people involved in the transfer have said about it (for example when Galliani said we had to sell Kaka because "we couldn't lose 70m every season", hence my argument that the club needed the sale money to balance the books (doesn't that convince you? huh.gif )).

Yours are just personal opinions.
Danny
QUOTE (Zed.D @ Oct 22 2009, 01:40 PM) *
@ Danny

I don't find your arguments convincing either. at least I base what I say on what people involved in the transfer have said about it (for example when Galliani said we had to sell Kaka because "we couldn't lose 70m every season", hence my argument that the club needed the sale money to balance the books (doesn't that convince you? huh.gif )).

Yours are just personal opinions.


You base yours on what Galliani says?

Interesting.

And no, it is not my opinion that Kaka rejected Man City but accepted Real Madrid. Which was also about money.

tbh, I don't wholly blame him for leaving for the money, I just wish he'd not lied and said he was staying forever. When he rejected the City bid he stated he was staying for life and wasn't interested in leaving. If he'd said, back then, that City's interest was flattering but he didn't want to join them, then that would have been different. Because such a comment wouldn't have meant he didn't want to leave us, just that he didn't want to go to Manchester.
Danny
QUOTE (Tennie @ Oct 22 2009, 12:53 PM) *
Actually there are four if you count Fishdoll, Danny. smile.gif

This seems to be one of those polarising issues -- I've certainly gotten into arguments about it in the past -- that is, perhaps, best left for now.


Sadly I don't have your resolve and find the topic akin to a red rag.
Tennie
I stopped trying to argue the point after it got really quite unpleasant -- left the board for a couple of months because some of the attacks that came my way were not nice at all.
dst
QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 22 2009, 02:26 PM) *
I do care about this, which is why my post directly commented on it.

But you do not care about that, it's not convenient...

It being that Milan had to sell him? If I'm not crazy, you did not mention that:

"Of course he feels very Madrista, he's been engineering a move to them for well over half a year before they bid.

Why so many of our fans praise his character as some kind of loyal Rossoneri is beyond me.

If he was a loyal Rossoneri he would have stayed, just like he did when City came calling. He claimed that he wanted to stay because he wanted to be our captain and an idol - in reality he stayed because City was a rubbish option.

Soon as Madrid came in with a bid half the price of the City one he was off."

But he remains an angel in the eyes of so many of our fans. Yet Shevchenko did something similar and for many remains a devil."

QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 22 2009, 02:30 PM) *
Funny you say that as if it makes your view correct biggrin.gif

If nothing can be proven, then ALL of us are talking heresay. And your claims I'm wrong are unfair.

Please take the time to read my responses if you want us to have a serious discussion. What part of "no one's right because we don't know the truth" don't you understand? I never claimed that you are wrong or that I am right. Judging from the quoted post you've probably stopped reading this response too so I might as well go bla ble bloom, you won't even notice it! Come on, did you?

QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 22 2009, 02:31 PM) *
I think there's about 3 of us who don't see Kaka as some kind of angel. The majority do. That's fine.

I think both sides are guilty of trying to force their view on the opposition, and I guess that makes me guilty too.

The reason I'm reacting like this is because I hate being treated like a stupid fanboy!! So please quit with that ****ing angel ****!!! It's ****ing annoying!!! I probably am biased in favor of Kaka but that's limited to being lenient with him when he's having a bad day. I'm not closing my eyes on any facts here so quit acting like you know the truth and we don't see it!! Nobody sees him as an angel so leave the ****ing sarcastic tone aside!!

Nobody's trying to force anything on you, you're the one that's always bringing this issue up... it's closed for me, everyone has his/her own opinion on the matter and that's it but you are obsessed with making us agree with what you say.

Again, stop the ****ing angel thing, that's all I'm asking. I respect your opinion but not when you're trying to make mine look stupid and fanboy-ish.
Tennie
Fishdoll gives dst a cookie. You seem a bit cross. Did you and Kurtiepoo have a fight last night? smile.gif
dst
Yes, he was calling Nesta a whiner and I was calling Ambro a wanker... we have not talked since. tongue.gif

Like I said, I hate being made to look like a stupid fanboy that's all.

Thanks for the cookie... *tastes it*... these are even better than before!!
Jack Sparrow
laugh.gif I find that funny, you not liking to be treated like a fanboy. Especially considering you sig.
dst
That's not fanboy-ism, that's a whole religion you state official! (that has to be a huge curse when said to a pirate!)
Zed.D
QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 22 2009, 05:16 PM) *
You base yours on what Galliani says?

Interesting.

And no, it is not my opinion that Kaka rejected Man City but accepted Real Madrid. Which was also about money.

tbh, I don't wholly blame him for leaving for the money, I just wish he'd not lied and said he was staying forever. When he rejected the City bid he stated he was staying for life and wasn't interested in leaving. If he'd said, back then, that City's interest was flattering but he didn't want to join them, then that would have been different. Because such a comment wouldn't have meant he didn't want to leave us, just that he didn't want to go to Manchester.


That was just 1 example. I base my argument also on What Kaka, Galliani, Berlusconi, Finivest, etc etc have said and all of them indicated that selling Kaka was the club's decision. yes, Kaka came out and said if he ever HAD to leave it'd be only for Madrid. and that's why I think he had been told he eventually had to accept a transfer so he obviously chose Madrid over City.

Tell me, Danny, (if it's looks so weird that someone bases his argument on Galliani's statements) why would Galliani come out and say it was the club's decision to sell when in fact it was the player's wish to leave? why didn't he come out and say the same thing about Sheva back in 2006? I tell you, because it was Sheva who chose to leave - it wasn't the club's desire to sell. and to save himself from criticism, he came out and said the truth, despite all the love he and Berlu had for Sheva! and now you're telling me he's lied to us that it was the club who wanted to sell Kaka? why on earth would he do that?

I'm telling you, selling Kaka was the management's idea the moment they approached Dinho... JMO!
il_diavolo_mtl
QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 22 2009, 08:46 AM) *
You base yours on what Galliani says?

Interesting.

And no, it is not my opinion that Kaka rejected Man City but accepted Real Madrid. Which was also about money.

tbh, I don't wholly blame him for leaving for the money, I just wish he'd not lied and said he was staying forever. When he rejected the City bid he stated he was staying for life and wasn't interested in leaving. If he'd said, back then, that City's interest was flattering but he didn't want to join them, then that would have been different. Because such a comment wouldn't have meant he didn't want to leave us, just that he didn't want to go to Manchester.

i agree with this, but when he wore the shirt he never thought twice about what its weight was, he just performed to the best of him. Sadly he will never be that good again as he's being wasted on the wing but i do honestly believe Rick and berlu had reached an agreement before/during the city spending frenzy that he would be sold to a team to balance the books so long as it was real madrid.
Tennie
I'm staying out of the argument this time. People who've been here any length of time know what my view is and know that I disagree with most of you about Kaka and his motives and the reason for the sale.

I really am not sure why we're having this particular argument again.
Zed.D
I know I didn't start it smile.gif
dst
We are not here to agree and we've all made out opinions clear so there's no point going on with this; the one side can't prove that Kaka wanted to and/or pushed for a transfer at Madrid and the other side can't prove the opposite... we don't know the whole truth and we never will.
il_diavolo_mtl
QUOTE (Zed.D @ Oct 22 2009, 10:32 AM) *
I know I didn't start it smile.gif

blame the ranger fan for being angered about the thrashing his team took, he's taking it out on us tongue.gif
no ibut i generally agree with bboth sides of the story, i don't mind having the argument now. because there will be no name-calling now that we're not in the heat of the momment though smile.gif
Jack Sparrow
QUOTE (dst @ Oct 22 2009, 09:08 PM) *
We are not here to agree and we've all made out opinions clear so there's no point going on with this; the one side can't prove that Kaka wanted to and/or pushed for a transfer at Madrid and the other side can't prove the opposite... we don't know the whole truth and we never will.


Agnostic prick!! tongue.gif
Danny
QUOTE (dst @ Oct 22 2009, 02:15 PM) *
It being that Milan had to sell him? If I'm not crazy, you did not mention that:

"Of course he feels very Madrista, he's been engineering a move to them for well over half a year before they bid.

Why so many of our fans praise his character as some kind of loyal Rossoneri is beyond me.

If he was a loyal Rossoneri he would have stayed, just like he did when City came calling. He claimed that he wanted to stay because he wanted to be our captain and an idol - in reality he stayed because City was a rubbish option.

Soon as Madrid came in with a bid half the price of the City one he was off."

But he remains an angel in the eyes of so many of our fans. Yet Shevchenko did something similar and for many remains a devil."


Please take the time to read my responses if you want us to have a serious discussion. What part of "no one's right because we don't know the truth" don't you understand? I never claimed that you are wrong or that I am right. Judging from the quoted post you've probably stopped reading this response too so I might as well go bla ble bloom, you won't even notice it! Come on, did you?


The reason I'm reacting like this is because I hate being treated like a stupid fanboy!! So please quit with that ****ing angel ****!!! It's ****ing annoying!!! I probably am biased in favor of Kaka but that's limited to being lenient with him when he's having a bad day. I'm not closing my eyes on any facts here so quit acting like you know the truth and we don't see it!! Nobody sees him as an angel so leave the ****ing sarcastic tone aside!!

Nobody's trying to force anything on you, you're the one that's always bringing this issue up... it's closed for me, everyone has his/her own opinion on the matter and that's it but you are obsessed with making us agree with what you say.

Again, stop the ****ing angel thing, that's all I'm asking. I respect your opinion but not when you're trying to make mine look stupid and fanboy-ish.


Is there really any point replying to this?

I made a post and you attacked it and me, not the other way around. I don't recall treating you like a fanboy, I only said the majority of our fans see nothing to criticise about him while the minority feel otherwise.

And then you came in with your size 12s taking it all personally for some curious reason best known to yourself and are now ranting and raving as if you had 12 Red Bulls too many in the past hour.

Calm down - I'm not personally attacking you, and I feel it is best served if this debate closes now. I really don't want a situation like the unfortunate Tennie's been at the end of.
Danny
QUOTE (dst @ Oct 22 2009, 03:38 PM) *
We are not here to agree and we've all made out opinions clear so there's no point going on with this; the one side can't prove that Kaka wanted to and/or pushed for a transfer at Madrid and the other side can't prove the opposite... we don't know the whole truth and we never will.


Fair enough, a nice diplomatic answer there from your good self.

Let us all agree to move on, and perhaps try to keep this subject off the forum smile.gif
Danny
QUOTE (il_diavolo_mtl @ Oct 22 2009, 03:38 PM) *
blame the ranger fan for being angered about the thrashing his team took, he's taking it out on us tongue.gif


Cheap shot!

If a Nerrazzuri said the same to you following the derby you'd stab him in both eyes with an ice pick.

Aim your jabs a bit higher next time.
Zed.D
You know what, we are Milan fans. we're supposed to be united but this debate over Kaka is separating us! I'm grateful for what he did for us on the pitch and still don't fault him for the Madrid move, but now he's gone. time for us to move on. so... screw Kaka!
kurtsimonw
Not this again..

If anyone is to blame, it's the management. I don't exactly hide how much of a fan I am of Sheva, but that was down to his choice to leave. Kaka'? the guy turned down a move and repeatedly stated he wanted to stay. But our club was more than happy to offer Kaka' to the highest bidder. I don't care how much I liked a club, if they kept trying to sell me at every opportunity, I wouldn't stay either.
Tennie
Well, if you want to bring it up, him batting his eyelashes at Madrid and Manchester every transfer window and accepting obscene pay hikes when he (or his manager who presumably knows how to read financial statements) should probably have known the club wasn't in great financial shape doesn't exactly do it for me either. I don't think he was in any way as loyal to the club as some people make him out to be. I also don't think he was completely uninterested in earning even more obscene amounts of money.
dst
QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 22 2009, 06:42 PM) *
Is there really any point replying to this?

I made a post and you attacked it and me, not the other way around. I don't recall treating you like a fanboy, I only said the majority of our fans see nothing to criticise about him while the minority feel otherwise.

And then you came in with your size 12s taking it all personally for some curious reason best known to yourself and are now ranting and raving as if you had 12 Red Bulls too many in the past hour.

Calm down - I'm not personally attacking you, and I feel it is best served if this debate closes now. I really don't want a situation like the unfortunate Tennie's been at the end of.

My response was distasteful to say the least but so was in my view your way; of course you did not attack me personally, you attacked everyone who does not agree with you on this issue by making it sound like we're stupid fanboys who idolize Kaka and refuse to see "the truth". There's nothing to reply with to my post really it's just a stupid angry post but try not to be derogatory next time.
Tennie
So....ouzo and flapjacks for everyone now? biggrin.gif
dst
Can I have cookies instead of flapjacks? goodheart.gif
Tennie
Fishdoll will think about it, especially if loukoumades are involved. smile.gif
dst
These are all not very good for our health droolsmiley.gif
I_Rossoneri
QUOTE (Tennie @ Oct 22 2009, 08:31 PM) *
Well, if you want to bring it up, him batting his eyelashes at Madrid and Manchester every transfer window and accepting obscene pay hikes when he (or his manager who presumably knows how to read financial statements) should probably have known the club wasn't in great financial shape doesn't exactly do it for me either. I don't think he was in any way as loyal to the club as some people make him out to be. I also don't think he was completely uninterested in earning even more obscene amounts of money.


All I will say on the matter bis that when Sheva left galliani was their trying to offer him a massive pay rise to stay, Ricky wasn't offered anything. Also we invested a lot of the money from the Sheva sale - $18m + Vogel IIRC, yet we have yet to see a 'major' signing to cover Ricky's absence.
I_Rossoneri
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Oct 22 2009, 08:27 PM) *
Not this again..

If anyone is to blame, it's the management. I don't exactly hide how much of a fan I am of Sheva, but that was down to his choice to leave. Kaka'? the guy turned down a move and repeatedly stated he wanted to stay. But our club was more than happy to offer Kaka' to the highest bidder. I don't care how much I liked a club, if they kept trying to sell me at every opportunity, I wouldn't stay either.



QUOTE (Zed.D @ Oct 22 2009, 03:07 PM) *
That was just 1 example. I base my argument also on What Kaka, Galliani, Berlusconi, Finivest, etc etc have said and all of them indicated that selling Kaka was the club's decision. yes, Kaka came out and said if he ever HAD to leave it'd be only for Madrid. and that's why I think he had been told he eventually had to accept a transfer so he obviously chose Madrid over City.

Tell me, Danny, (if it's looks so weird that someone bases his argument on Galliani's statements) why would Galliani come out and say it was the club's decision to sell when in fact it was the player's wish to leave? why didn't he come out and say the same thing about Sheva back in 2006? I tell you, because it was Sheva who chose to leave - it wasn't the club's desire to sell. and to save himself from criticism, he came out and said the truth, despite all the love he and Berlu had for Sheva! and now you're telling me he's lied to us that it was the club who wanted to sell Kaka? why on earth would he do that?

I'm telling you, selling Kaka was the management's idea the moment they approached Dinho... JMO!


+1
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