Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Coaches who get banned
AC Milan - Milanfan.com > General Football > Football Discussion
Fillipo Simone
So, I'm really interested. The Milan-Catania match inspired me. Walter Zenga was banned for that one. Still, he was in constant contact with his assistant. It looked even silly at some point, when the field coach turned his back to the pitch and communicated via mobile phone with Zenga. At the end, Catania lost. Now I'm just setting some questions and comments but I really like to here your opinions...

1) The coach ban (red card) existed a long time ago. But in times without mobile phone's and all the other modern gadgets, it was simple. The assistant coach (AC) would take over and do the neccesary. Some great coaches even started their coaching-career that way! Now it's different. Now the AC cannot even blink, he's in constant connection with the banned coach away on the stands, and listens to his "orders". Isn't this a bit streching the rules? If you are red carded you are/should be out, you cannot participate. A player cannot play, a coach cannot draw decisions, cannot do subs or anything else.

2) Isn't it also a bit silly? Really, why shouldn't a coach just accept the ban and let his AC do the job for one match? The AC sure isn't an amateur. Why shouldn't he be able to do one match? Okay, I get when it's the CL final, but one league game, somewhere in the middle of the season?


3) Isn't related directly to the main topic. What do you think of puritanism in football? Don't you think it's going to far? Players getting banned for pretty much everything these days. Insulted the referee, insulted the linesman, unsportsmanship, dives, fouls (afterwards via video proof), for giving comments after the game, etc?

acid911
That's because FIFA is a ruling body, not a coordinating body (like International Cricket Council). They do what they believe is good. Dictatorship if you will. The German coach got banned in the recent Euros, and it wasn't such a big deal, his AC did a darn fine job.

Interesting discussion, though, Sim. sleepysmiley03.gif
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Dec 12 2008, 10:12 PM) *
1) The coach ban (red card) existed a long time ago. But in times without mobile phone's and all the other modern gadgets, it was simple. The assistant coach (AC) would take over and do the neccesary. Some great coaches even started their coaching-career that way! Now it's different. Now the AC cannot even blink, he's in constant connection with the banned coach away on the stands, and listens to his "orders". Isn't this a bit streching the rules? If you are red carded you are/should be out, you cannot participate. A player cannot play, a coach cannot draw decisions, cannot do subs or anything else.

Well, the reason for this is that you can't ban somebody from using their mobile phone. So it is basically just a way around the rule.

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Dec 12 2008, 10:12 PM) *
2) Isn't it also a bit silly? Really, why shouldn't a coach just accept the ban and let his AC do the job for one match? The AC sure isn't an amateur. Why shouldn't he be able to do one match? Okay, I get when it's the CL final, but one league game, somewhere in the middle of the season?

I agree with you here, I think the problem arises when the AM/AC does something the players don't expect, make a change or a tactical move that the players wouldn't expect from their normal manager. They should do it out of respect of the AM/AC.. but if there's a doubt in their mind, do you think they would go with it? An AM/AC is't always just like a manager either sometimes, when Sammy Lee was at Bolton, he took over when Allerdyce left and did a bad job, because he didn't suit being a manager.

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Dec 12 2008, 10:12 PM) *
3) Isn't related directly to the main topic. What do you think of puritanism in football? Don't you think it's going to far? Players getting banned for pretty much everything these days. Insulted the referee, insulted the linesman, unsportsmanship, dives, fouls (afterwards via video proof), for giving comments after the game, etc?

Of those that you mention, I think only fouls found later by video should be punished.

Diving: It's part of the game and so it should be. It may not be classy, but there's plenty of times I've seen Cristiano Ronaldo been taken out with a bad challenge and nothing has been given, so I can see why players want to dive sometimes, it's basically a way of 'evening things out'. Also, the only person to blame for a dive that wins a free-kick is the referee, if they didn't fall for it, then diving wouldn't be a problem.

Abusive language towards officials: The EPL has bought in a new 'respect' campaign this season, 30 minutes before the game the team captains meet with the referees to gain a familiarity with each other and discuss how they want things to be done in the game. The captain are also the only players allowed to talk to the referees during the game.. the problem is that respect needs to work both ways, and it doesn't, the officials tke liberties. Villa drew 1-1 with Boro last season, we won a late penalty and scored it which got us a point, after the game Luke Young, who supposedly handballed it, asked the ref at the end of the game, if he would review the tape and then come out and admit he got the decision wrong if he found it to not be penalty worthy. The referee refused to review the tape and then shown Luke Young a red card (It was clearly not a handball either).. if referees want respect, they'll have to start to earn it, because I thought that was a disgrace, and I'm sure similar things happen all the time. So until they start acting like referees and stop acting like they're the star of the show, they warrant the abuse from players, in my opinion.

Comments: If a player makes a bad foul, the refs will come out and say that he made a terrible tackle, etc. If the refs make a bad decision, the managers will say he made a bad decision.. expect this isn't acceptable for some reason. I think it's stupid how players/managers get a fine or a ban or whatever for making comments, it's really stupid. I think it's also part reason why officials are so bad, because they're under no pressure. Their respective FAs just protect them so much that it doesn't matter whatether they make a mistake or not, nothing will be done.

/end rant.
TriniKing_CE
I agree with most of what Kurt said, or at least understand where he is coming from.
I would have given my opinion, but I am not too good at compiling lengthy post and I'm kinda lazy/tired atm to try.
blink.gif innocent.gif

laugh.gif
Jack Sparrow
Agree with kurt except for the diving part. I think the problem of things not being given at that time, should be compensated by delayed video evidence.

The clubs should be allowed to bring such incidents for appeal.

And by all means, there must be an accountability system for refs as well. Otherwise you'll have idiots like the ref in the Italy-Korea match of 2002 come along.
TriniKing_CE
QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Dec 13 2008, 12:05 AM) *
Agree with kurt except for the diving part. I think the problem of things not being given at that time, should be compensated by delayed video evidence.

The clubs should be allowed to bring such incidents for appeal.

And by all means, there must be an accountability system for refs as well. Otherwise you'll have idiots like the ref in the Italy-Korea match of 2002 come along.

Fair enough, I agree with you too Jack, but since things aren't that way atm, players themselves would have to look out for their selves to an extent.
Don't get me wrong, I not a fan of all these Michael Phelps attempts, but I'm just saying its understandable (at times), why they would sometimes give in.
dst
QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Dec 13 2008, 12:12 AM) *
3) Isn't related directly to the main topic. What do you think of puritanism in football? Don't you think it's going to far? Players getting banned for pretty much everything these days. Insulted the referee, insulted the linesman, unsportsmanship, dives, fouls (afterwards via video proof), for giving comments after the game, etc?

No I don't think so. I believe more harsh punishments should be applied in some cases too.

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Dec 13 2008, 02:36 AM) *
Diving: It's part of the game and so it should be. It may not be classy, but there's plenty of times I've seen Cristiano Ronaldo been taken out with a bad challenge and nothing has been given, so I can see why players want to dive sometimes, it's basically a way of 'evening things out'. Also, the only person to blame for a dive that wins a free-kick is the referee, if they didn't fall for it, then diving wouldn't be a problem.

How is it part of the game? Anything could be labeled as part of the game then like abusive language... it existed way before too so it's traditionally part of the game... diving is no less disrespectful to your opponents than bad language is to the referee.

I just love it when a diver is forced down and yet no foul is given because of the player's reputation for diving. Diving is unfair and it comes back to you, that's for sure!

QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Dec 13 2008, 06:05 AM) *
And by all means, there must be an accountability system for refs as well.

Certainly!
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (dst @ Dec 13 2008, 10:50 AM) *
How is it part of the game? Anything could be labeled as part of the game then like abusive language... it existed way before too so it's traditionally part of the game... diving is no less disrespectful to your opponents than bad language is to the referee.

I just love it when a diver is forced down and yet no foul is given because of the player's reputation for diving. Diving is unfair and it comes back to you, that's for sure!

I don't mean just because it's done that it's part of the game. Because killing people could be part of the game then! Diving and abusive language are completely different in my opinion, one is "cheating" and the other is an attack on a person. The reason I think bad language is worse than diving is because the referee can't do anything about someone saying they're a prick, he can't rewind time or anything and tell them to shut up, while with diving it's so very simple to stop.. don't give them the free-kick. It only becomes cheating if the referee lets it.
dst
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Dec 13 2008, 03:28 PM) *
It only becomes cheating if the referee lets it.

It's always cheating in my opinion. In the same sense I'm not a killer if I shoot somebody and get away with it... just because I got away with it does not mean anything... that's sounds weird to me.

Of course the referees are going to fall for it sometimes it's only normal that they'll make mistakes. Especially since it has become an art these days, some players have learned to simulate a fall perfectly (unlike the WWE wrestlers biggrin.gif )!
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (dst @ Dec 13 2008, 01:49 PM) *
It's always cheating in my opinion. In the same sense I'm not a killer if I shoot somebody and get away with it... just because I got away with it does not mean anything... that's sounds weird to me.

I think that's a bit different. You're only a cheat IF you get away with something. How are you cheating if you dive, and get sent off? laugh.gif
dst
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Dec 13 2008, 03:57 PM) *
I think that's a bit different. You're only a cheat IF you get away with something. How are you cheating if you dive, and get sent off? laugh.gif

It's only a matter of definition I think.
Portman
Ain't a coach but I also get banned time to time. Should I get my own thread? smoke.gif
acid911
QUOTE (Portikins @ Dec 29 2008, 09:35 PM) *
Ain't a coach but I also get banned time to time. Should I get my own thread?

Welcome back. devil.gif
Fillipo Simone
QUOTE (Portikins @ Dec 29 2008, 05:35 PM) *
Ain't a coach but I also get banned time to time. Should I get my own thread? smoke.gif

I think you should get even more.. cool.gif
TriniKing_CE
QUOTE (Portikins @ Dec 29 2008, 12:35 PM) *
Ain't a coach but I also get banned time to time. Should I get my own thread? smoke.gif

laugh.gif
Jack Sparrow
You my dear sir, should get your own frickin forum topic. Call it Porty Discussion or something.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.