Calcio Debate: Who Was Better - Pele Or Maradona?


Following Diego Maradona’s controversial comments about Pele yesterday, Carlo Garganese asks the question: Who was the greatest?


There are some things in this world that simply cannot be agreed on. For example; the Rolling Stones vs The Beatles, Magic Johnson vs Michael Jordan, and Pele vs Maradona.

This last question has split opinion almost more than any other and will continue to do so forever.

So how do you judge how good a player is? Well there are many ways.

Medals & Trophies

Pele won three World Cups, two Copa Libertadores’, two Intercontinental Cups and a host of other Brazilian and American titles, while he picked up the FIFA Player of the Century Award in 2000.

Maradona on the other hand won just a single World Cup, league titles in Argentina and Italy, national Cups in Spain and Italy, and a horde of individual honours including best player at the 1986 World Cup, FIFA Goal of the Century, and FIFA Player of the Century (People’s Choice).

Some would argue that the fact that Pele won three World Cups to Maradona’s one, would make him the better player.

Of course team prizes, the greatest of them all being the World Cup, are very important, however it is totally incorrect to judge a player solely on the trophies they won. Pele was a young 17-year-old in 1958, barely made an impact in 1962 and 1966 due to injury, and in 1970, despite his fine performances, he was playing in the best football team of all time alongside the likes of Tostao, Rivelino, Gerson and Jairzinho.

Maradona however dragged a distinctly average Argentina team all the way to World Cup glory in 1986, scoring the greatest goal of all time against England in the quarter-final, and another almost equally as brilliant against Belgium in the semis.

As has been stated on numerous occasions in the past, Brazil would have won the 1970 World Cup with or without Pele. Sixteen years later Argentina probably wouldn’t have got past Enzo Francescoli’s Copa America holders Uruguay in the second round without Maradona in their side.

This doesn’t necessarily make Maradona a better player. Although one has to ask themselves the question. If Pele was playing for Argentina in 1986 – would they have won the World Cup? I very much doubt it.

Goals Scored

Supporters of Pele always boast how he scored 1281 goals in 1363 games. First of all it must be pointed out that there is a great deal of uncertainty over this total. Many of these goals were scored for Santos in the state and local championships, where the opposition was not that strong.

Nevertheless with 77 goals in 92 appearances for Brazil, 12 of them in the World Cup, no one can question Pele’s astonishing goalscoring ability.

Maradona hit 34 in 91 appearances, eight in World Cups, and had a career total of 311 in 590 appearances.

Once again you should not read too much into goal statistics such as these. A great player or forward will score goals when they really matter, such as in big title deciders or cup knockout matches.

Some prolific goalscorers from the past have not always necessarily produced their best in these big games. Followers of Italian football will know that Alberto Gilardino has a fine record for Milan, however he has always struggled to score against the top teams or in the important matches.

Both Pele and Maradona did this, so in this respect they cannot be separated.

Fair Play

This is the argument that Pele is the greatest because Maradona is a poor role model - Diego’s substance abuse and the fact that he ‘cheated’ with his ‘hand of god’ goal against England in 1986 makes him a lesser player.

This hypothesis is frankly ridiculous. Regardless of how poorly Maradona behaved off the pitch, and how much he bended the rules on it, this all makes no difference to how great a player he was.

Indeed in central and southern Europe and South America, being crafty and sneaky is seen as a major part of the game. If you can con the referee or an opponent and score a goal because of it, then you are tactically and mentally a better player.

While on moral grounds Maradona can be criticised for his cocaine addiction, it should not interfere with how he is regarded as a footballer. Do you say that Amy Winehouse is a bad singer because she takes drugs? I don’t think so.

Pele is no angel either. Indeed some would argue that, as part of the “FIFA Family” along with Sepp Blatter, Joao Havelange and Co, he is indeed worse than Maradona. Politics is the disease of football and one only has to look at the annual shortlist for the FIFA World Player of the Year to realise this.

It should also be cleared up that Maradona never took performance-enhancing drugs, as is often mistakenly believed. Cocaine actually results in a drop in the level of play, and indeed Diego said yesterday that he would have been three-times the player he was without his addiction.

Video Footage

Deciding who was better out of Pele and Maradona is difficult due to the lack of video footage that was around during the 1950s and 60s when Pele was in his prime.

Maradona burst on the scene during an age when football was exploding into a multi-million-pound business. The footage of Pele is mainly restricted to that from World Cups. Indeed the King said himself that the greatest goal he ever scored, when he supposedly took on an entire team, was deleted from the archives a couple of decades ago.

With this in mind it is perhaps wrong to use video footage to decide who was better out of Maradona and Pele. Best clip compilations on the Internet are dangerous. I could put a highlights package of all the best moments and tricks from Emile Heskey’s career and claim that he was in fact the best player of all time.

Ok I probably couldn’t – but you get my point. In order to decide how good a player is, you have to see them for the full 90 minutes, on a regular and consistent basis.

Longevity, which both of these players had, is important too. It is no good being world-class for two years before disappearing from the game. These players are legends because they were at the top of world football for 15 years or more. This is what makes the likes of Paolo Maldini, now in his 23rd year of top-flight football such a phenomenon.

Pele Came Before Maradona

One thing that is important to recognise is that Pele was 10 maybe 20 years ahead of his time. His footballing brain was like no other.

“I told myself before the game, 'he's made of skin and bones just like everyone else' - but I was wrong,” said Tarciso Burgnich of Italy after the 1970 World Cup final.

Some say that if there was no Pele, there would have been no Cruijff, Zico, Maradona, Baggio or Zidane.

Pele (some would say along with Ferenc Puskas) revolutionised the game from the point of view of the classical ‘number 10’. The great fantasistas who followed Pele were copying his lead.

Deciding who was better out of Pele and Maradona is a hugely difficult answer to arrive at.

I have laid out a number of arguments above and now it is up to you, the fans, to decide.

I reach my own answer by asking myself whether Argentina would have won the World Cup in 1986 had they had Pele instead of Maradona.

For me the answer is no, and for this reason I would say that Maradona had more of an ‘individual’ impact on a team than Pele.
However we will never know for sure the answer to this question.

What are your views on this topic? Who was the greatest – Pele or Maradona? Goal.com wants to know what YOU think

Carlo Garganese

Maradona for me.

The fact that Pele never played in Europe counts against him a whole lot for me, while Diego was superb over here. Yes, Pele was fantastic for Brazil, but he was in a squad of World class players. Looking back at the Argie squad Maradona won the WC, they wouldn't have come close without him.

Another thing for me is the era they played in. Football in the 60s/70s wasn't very competitive, there were the very top teams, then the rest would just get thumped. While the gap has certainly become much closer between the best and the rest.

Maradona is better than Pele, in my opinion. And I'm not one to praise an Argie, he inparticular.

Maradona.

What did he say about the money whore yesterday?

Pele is the money whore? or you mean Ronaldinho?

I'm not terribly fond of either of them, but I say Maradona.
That's 3-0 to Diego so far...

I meant Pele this time. Both are whores.

And Maradona is a CHEAT!

Yes he is. None of them I really like but if I had to choose it certainly would not be Pele... that guy is just...

I like your thinking.

Diego for sure

football is not all about goals. that said, even tho the number of goals pele scored is amazing theres many doubts over the exact figures (apparently he counted pre season friendlies and sh1t...) + he played his whole career in brazil in USA i mean come on, i would have liked to see him play in europe. for all we know he could have been a bust just like many other south americans.

maradonna may be an arrogant pr1ck, but pele aint much better cuz he's a arrogant f@g + maraddona would have been even better without the drugs and all.

I think we should all remember that Maradona didn't to performance-improving drugs.
Sure, he snorted lots of cocaine, but that don't turn you into a superman does it...except in Scarface off course.

I was, and still am the best!

MORE RESPECT!

Simple - PELE

I have never seen Pele play. I have seen Maradona and he was amazing. But that can't really give me the right to judge now that Diego was better.

Pele's a Brazillian legend. Maradona is Argentina's equivalent. I'd love to give Brazil the benefit of the doubt, since there have been more Brazillian talents doing better in Europe than Argie, but there just isn't enough evidence to make a judgement.

People who have seen Pele say he was better. His chemistry with the team was also brilliant. Point is we haven't seen him play have we??

So in the end, I think this is a pointless, useless discussion. It's all down to our favourites really. I'd say this is what Pana would call a 'np-complete' problem.

I haven't seen him play live, but I've seen tons of old video tapes, so that should count,..

Never been to Brazil myself but I know from friends who have that Garrincha is a bigger legend than Pele there.

^^^

I know...but it was Pele who was officially heralded as legend. Garrincha I guess never managed to promote himself as well as Pele did.

I remember Best also saying something about some player, saying this guy could have been better than him.

But I still think it was difficult. You can't compare Diego and Pele, also because I'd say their roles in the team were a bit different. Pele was an out and out fantasista. A true blue number 10. Maradona also had the play from mid sometimes.

For me I could never choose between, Pele, Diego, Cryuff and MvB. Their contributions to my awe of football have been huge.

In recent times only Zidane and a certain Andy P have made me sit up and take notice. Don't hurt me Mo, but I could never see anything beyond a clever trickster in R10. Kaka's great to watch, but he doesn't challenge my footballing theory.

And the day, Cristiano Ronaldo shows up in Europe and carries his team like he does in the EPL, I'll add him to the list.

Diego Armando Maradona-simply the best footballer ever, yes his reputation will be tarnished with all his off the field problems but even with them he is the best footballer this planet has ever seen.

Pele, Garrincha, Maradona, Cryuff, MvB, Zidane and Baggio are the best players I know of. I don't even know why only the two are separated from the rest.

They are different players anyway, Pele was a true forward, Maradona was an attacking midfielder/second striker like Kaka.

Football and Society


Check the link out Pana. Besides being a good read, it also has a small bit on Artur Friedenreich. Brazil's first great footballer.

The only guy who I've heard Pele mention as being better than him.

Don't forget in those days of Friedenreich, he has to wrestle obstacles that Maradona never faced.

For instance:

1) Artur was of mixed ancestry (half black), and Brazil was at that time heavily racist. The referees would not blow the whistle whatever a white guy did to a black. So Artur had to invent ways to avoid tackles.

2) The equipment at the time, was sh!te. No Puma or adidas or any scientific research. Don't know if you've seen a program, where they gave modern day players modern boots and old boots and asked them to play. These players could juggle, do an ATW, whatever with the new stuff. But on the old fashioned heavy boots, they could do sh!te. And the footballs weren't pressed. They were stitched leather, with the stitches on the outside. And tearing your head when heading the ball was the norm.


Anyway my point was inspite of all this, Artur has just as many goals as Pele. Maybe more.
Link
EDIT: Much Better Link


It's pointless to judge these things and compare.

Like Tera Patrick and Jenna Jameson. Some days I like the blonde, somedays the brunette. I'm just grateful we have both.

It's just in the human nature to make lists and pick the best... we can't do without it.

Nowadays football is much more competitive, and there are a lot of great players that you can't separate one or two from the others.

While at that time there were few great players and kinds of Pele or Maradona outshined the others and that's why they are still thought to be the best of all time.

I think that if players like Zidane, MvB, Ronaldo, or even Kaka & Ronaldinho would have played 30 yrs ago, they would have had the same impact.

And I rate them equal to Maradona and Pele.

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BTW, from what I've seen Maradona was better than Pele.

I completely agree.

But hey, they're from Argentina and Brazil, just being from one of those countries automatically makes you a great player.

I think Maradona was better than Pele, in my opinion. But neither is the greatest ever. It's an opinion anyways, there are no facts when you try to decide ability. If I say Darren Fletcher is the best player ever, he is. There's no real arguement against it. It will always differ on each individual opinion, and even if everybody did agree with the same player, it still doesn't make it true.

Well, there is a limit...

Th best ever? Like you guys said it's an almost unananswerable question. Maradonna was great, but I haven't seen him playing on his prime (can only remember the WC '94 Diego)...just like Pele. Other than them people also say Arthur Friedenreich (the son of a german migrant and a brazilian who played in the 20ies and 30ies of the 20th century) was an amazin player. He invented some basic football tricks and the twisted shot.

From the players I have seen Zidane is without a doubt the most amazing...I just can't find words for this guy.

Maradona for sure, this is coming from a brazil fan

Whos the top 5 footballers in our time?

Top 5? You mean who is the best right now? Or who is the greatest overall?

The best right now would be
1.CR
2.Casillas
3.Ibra
4.Adebayor
5.Robinho

The greatest are (in no particular order except for the first! )
Maldini
Raul
Casillas
Giggs
Scholes
Buffon

Adebayor?? ..maybe right now, but,...
Scholes????? ..and no Zizou???

So, my choice would be:

Alltime:
1. Maldini
2. Pele/Maradona
3. Baresi
4. Beckenbauer
5. Crujiff/Sindelar

1998-2008:
1. Maldini
2. Zidane
3. Ronaldo
4. Kaka/Ronaldinho
5. Sheva

Right now:
1. Casillas
2. Ibrahimovic
3. Robinho/Messi
4. Ribery
5. CR/Pirlo

I'm not sure I'd be able to rank the all-time greatest players in a list, I wouldn't know where to start.

Past decade:
1) Paolo Maldini
2) Thierry Henry
3) Zinedine Zidane
4) Alan Shearer
5) Andriy Shevchenko

Right now:
1) Cristiano Ronaldo
2) Iker Casillas
3) Zlatan Ibrahimovic
4) Leo Messi
5) Ruud van Nistelrooy

It's funny how everyone's list is completely different. Just shows there's no way to determine 'ability' or who is better.

Zizou is the best ever. end of story!

At least from the last decade he surely is.

Agreed!

Yes that was a list with the players that play better than the other right now.


and this was a list about the greatest players still playing.

Right,...my bad.


Yes, but Scholes,..? I mean, he's good, but,..we have Ronaldo still playing, also Rivaldo, Cannavaro, Rui Costa and Figo?

It could be one of them too. As you saw, it was in no order... I think of all them being equally great... it's not like greatness can be measured like weight or something anyway...

But Paolo is the greatest!

All 85 kgs of him??