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Portman
QUOTE
LEVEL WITH BOCA

5/24/2007 12:59:00 PM

The triumph in Athens sees Milan move ahead of Real Madrid and Independiente and draw level with Boca Juniors in the number of international trophies won

Milan have now won 16 international trophies to draw them level with Argentine side Boca Juniors at the top of the table. The victory in Athens took the Rossoneri ahead of Real Madrid and Independiente who remain on 15.

Milan have two opportunities this year to move ahead of Diego Maradona's former club when they play in the European Super Cup against Seville on August 31 and the World Cup for clubs in Tokyo in December. If Boca win the South American Libertadores Cup then the two sides could be in line for a world championship match-off in Japan. The triumph in the Greek capital was also of great importance for Italian football who have now won 43 trophies on the international stage, putting them further ahead of Spain on 39 and England on 36.

MILAN'S WORLD NUMBERS

INTERNATIONAL CUPS
Milan, Boca Juniors 16
Real Madrid, Independiente 15
Ajax, Barcellona, Liverpool, Juventus 11

CHAMPIONS CUPS
Real Madrid 9
Milan 7
Liverpool 5

ROSSONERO HONOURS
League titles 17
Champions League 7
Italian Cups 5
Cup Winners' Cups 2
European Super Cups 4
Intercontinental Cups 3
League Super Cups 6
arivanjj
it would be nice if we could win both of them. devilsmiley.gif

btw Roni will be playing in these matches, right?
Portman
QUOTE (arivanjj @ May 24 2007, 02:03 PM)
btw Roni will be playing in these matches, right?
*

Of course. cool.gif



He'll be there.

PS: He already won the Supercup and Intercontinental with Madrid in 2002. He only misses the CL.
arivanjj
QUOTE (Porty @ May 24 2007, 11:14 PM)
Of course.  cool.gif



He'll be there.

PS: He already won the Supercup and Intercontinental with Madrid in 2002. He only misses the CL.

*

i know sad.gif
Portman
QUOTE (arivanjj @ May 24 2007, 02:14 PM)
i know  sad.gif
*

He'll give us the 8th. A brazillian trio will give us that. Mark my words. (It doesn't mean it's next year)
dst
I really want us to win these two cups! Especially the Intercontinental!! smile.gif
kurtsimonw
I'm not sure if I'm right with this so I might need some help clearing it up.

Is the Intercontinental cup: Champions League Winners vs Copa Libertadores Winners?

If we win this competition, would it put us on top of the all-time international honours, or doesn't it count as 'major enough'?

There's a chance we could play Boca, they drew their CL first leg 1-1 and will play Cucuta Deportivo in the semi-finals. (I don't like how this tournement is worked. Gremio and Santos were in the different half of the draw, but now play each other in the semi's to avoid an all Brazil final huh.gif)
Portman
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ May 24 2007, 04:50 PM)
I'm not sure if I'm right with this so I might need some help clearing it up.

Is the Intercontinental cup: Champions League Winners vs Copa Libertadores Winners?

If we win this competition, would it put us on top of the all-time international honours, or doesn't it count as 'major enough'?

No. That was until 2004. Now it's not the Intercontinental Cup. Now it's FIFA Club World Cup or Club World Championship...

The Intercontinental club was only between the Libertadores and Champions League winners.

Now... it's a 6 team tournament, with all the FIFA Federations with 1 club. We'll be there in December as Kings of Europe (UEFA - Federation).

Check out the federation map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:World_Map_FIFA2.png
kurtsimonw
Ah of course. I think I remember Liverpool playing various teams.

Depending on how it's drew/how the draw works out. I'd expect nothing than a UEFA vs CONMEBOL Final.#

There's a few decent Mexican sides though, if one of theirs gets in they may do alright.
Portman
Boca winning 2-0 to Cucuta and almost in the Libertadores final.

They'll face Gremio. Probably another title for Boca... sad.gif

PS: Riquelme is BY FAR their best player. Thank fvck he's probably going to be sold by Villarreal this Summer, coming back to Europe.
dst
We'll get the Euro Super Cup and Intercon. one and that means revenge AND first place in the ranking! cool.gif
Portman
QUOTE (dst @ Jun 8 2007, 01:37 PM)
We'll get the Euro Super Cup and Intercon. one and that means revenge AND first place in the ranking!  cool.gif
*

I think they've some kind of SuperCup too in South America. sad.gif
dst
Oh, crap! Well, we'll see. I hope we'll get to play them and beat them in Japan at least! smile.gif
Rossoneri7
QUOTE (dst @ Jun 8 2007, 03:37 PM)
We'll get the Euro Super Cup and Intercon. one and that means revenge AND first place in the ranking!  cool.gif
*


So Milan is considered #1 in the world king.gif
Portman
QUOTE (dst @ Jun 8 2007, 02:19 PM)
Oh, crap! Well, we'll see. I hope we'll get to play them and beat them in Japan at least! smile.gif
*

Let's all pray and support Gremio!

Well... anyway... if Boca beats them in the final, Ronaldinho will have another reason to join Milan - revenge in the Intercontinental (Gremio de Porto Alegre = 10R club, the one he truly supports). cool.gif
bigmacmtl
QUOTE (Porty @ Jun 8 2007, 06:38 PM)
Let's all pray and support Gremio!

Well... anyway... if Boca beats them in the final, Ronaldinho will have another reason to join Milan - revenge in the Intercontinental (Gremio de Porto Alegre = 10R club, the one he truly supports).  cool.gif
*

i've always liked boca so it's kinda hard to root aaginst them, i just hope they win and we beat them in japan and then we win supercup. that way everyone wins!
misha
QUOTE (bigmacmtl @ Jun 12 2007, 07:56 PM)
i've always liked boca so it's kinda hard to root aaginst them, i just hope they win and we beat them in japan and then we win supercup. that way everyone wins!
*

Same here. In South America I like Boca the most.
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (mishale @ Jun 12 2007, 06:33 PM)
Same here. In South America I like Boca the most.
*

dry.gif

Boca are the Inter of Argentine football. River > Boca. I still want Boca to win though, they're good to watch. tongue.gif
misha
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 12 2007, 09:35 PM)
dry.gif

Boca are the Inter of Argentine football. River > Boca. I still want Boca to win though, they're good to watch.  tongue.gif
*

Not at all. Boca ain't losers. Boca>>>>>>>>Inter>River. I hate River.
bigmacmtl
QUOTE (mishale @ Jun 12 2007, 01:39 PM)
Not at all. Boca ain't losers. Boca>>>>>>>>Inter>River. I hate River.
*

ohhhh same! i hate river.
River = juve (not great in copa libertadores but most domestic titles)
Boca = Milan ( most inter. trophies tied with milan, 2nd most copa libertadores titles on course for another, pretty good in the league but 2nd best overall)
Independiente= Inter (not much sucess in the past 20 years 3 apertura titles in that span, used to be a powerhouse internationally from 64-84 but no sucess since)
misha
QUOTE (bigmacmtl @ Jun 12 2007, 10:10 PM)
ohhhh same! i hate river.
River = juve (not great in copa libertadores but most domestic titles)
Boca = Milan ( most inter. trophies tied with milan, 2nd most copa libertadores titles on course for another, pretty good in the league but 2nd best overall)
Independiente= Inter (not much sucess in the past 20 years 3 apertura titles in that span, used to be a powerhouse internationally from 64-84 but no sucess since)
*

Ditto cool.gif
kurtsimonw
When it comes to titles you can compare like that, but when it comes to general beheaviour it's completely the other way round. It is Boca's fans who cause all the trouble after all. Not to mention some of their players. rolleyes.gif
bigmacmtl
QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 12 2007, 02:19 PM)
When it comes to titles you can compare like that, but when it comes to general beheaviour it's completely the other way round. It is Boca's fans who cause all the trouble after all. Not to mention some of their players.  rolleyes.gif
*

i guess you can compare it like that. generally the boca fans come from the poor side of buenos aires (inter are generally supported byt the common people) whereas river is supported by the richer side of buenos aires. but in a country like argentina the fans of almost all the fans start ****. actually the river fans attacked their headquarters just 2 weeks ago cuz the team sucks tongue.gif
bigmacmtl
it's interesting to not that boca was founded by italians (genoaese)
kurtsimonw
QUOTE (bigmacmtl @ Jun 12 2007, 07:33 PM)
it's interesting to not that boca was founded by italians (genoaese)
*

I didn't know that. Well, it's true, you do learn something new every day. smile.gif
misha
QUOTE
Boca Juniors: A Look Inside The Libertadores Cup Finalist

After examining the (with all due respects) lesser known Grêmio, Goal.com provides readers with a look at the other Libertadores Finalist – Argentine giants Boca Juniors. Although most are well aware of the Xeneize history, first we reflect on some basic history and then examine exactly what makes the 2007 team tick…

Although it may come as a bit of a shock to those unaware of the cosmopolitan nature of both São Paulo and Buenos Aires, these cities have a huge Italian immigrant population.  It was from this community – rather than the Spanish that would seem to be more logical considering the colonial history – that Boca Juniors was born in 1905.

Formed two years after fellow Copa Libertadores (Liberators Cup) Finalist Grêmio, the Argentine club was founded by five Italian immigrants in the working class neighbourhood of La Boca.  This nowadays often appears on postcards as the charming patchwork quilt of colours applied to the humble dwellings is either eye-catching or cornea-searing, depending on your point of view.

Whereas the Brazilian city of São Paulo (the largest concentration of descendents of Italian immigrants in South America) has the neighbourhood of Bixiga / Bela Vista that drips with influences from all over the old country, La Boca is dominated by descendants that mainly came from Genoa.

There is, in fact, a Genoese neighbourhood named Boccadasse (Bocadaze in the local Genoese lingo) and, although hard evidence that the name is an abbreviation is lacking, may have influenced the naming of the neighbourhood. 

La Boca has a distinct – almost revolutionary chic – personality all of it’s own as the fact that it (temporarily) declared independence from Argentina in 1882, rebels actually raising the Genoese flag in a reflection of the strength of feeling in the area, even though it was a short-lived protest.

This also gave rise to the nickname Xeneize, a local phonetic version of the Italian word Genovesi, simply meaning Genoese.  The other nickname is Bosteros, which Juan Arango describes in his enlightening article. 

Although the club moved location since it was founded, 1938 saw work start on a new stadium that would become known as La Bombonera (The Candy Box – from the French Bombom, although some prefer to translate is as chocolate box) due to its characteristic steep tiers (Maradona is often seen almost hanging out of them to cheer his side on) and strictly rectangular shape.

Officially called Alberto J. Armando stadium (after an ex-club President), it was formerly known as the Camilo Cichero stadium but neither name stuck in the public mind as much as the boxy nickname that is now world famous amongst the footballing cognoscenti.  It also has an odd ability to move sideways when fans jump in unison, Xeneizes fond of saying that the stadium doesn’t tremble…it beats like a heart.

The first leg of the Libertadores 2007 Final will take place on this hallowed ground and all 57,000 spaces are expected to be packed with the yellow-and-blue of Boca, visitors Grêmio having been allocated a measly 2500 seats (all sold out in minutes).

As to successes, it is no secret that Boca Juniors have a glittering trophy room that almost obliges the use of dark glasses, 22 domestic titles being almost overshadowed by a raging success at continental level.  Boca boasts no less than 16 South American trophies between the Libertadores, its little brother the Copa Sudamericana and other peripheral Cups.

The five Libertadores conquests take evident pride of place, Boca having hoisted the Holy Grail of South American football in 1977, 1978, 2000, 2001 and 2003 (Independiente have harvested seven to lead the rankings, but the last time they won dates back almost a quarter of a century to 1984). 

The original 1970s double-tap has been overshadowed by the early 21st century dominance under ex-Coach Carlos Bianchi, a legend at La Bombonera for his seeming effortless ability to bring home the bacon.  Many Boca fans still almost mourn the Maestro’s retirement, Basile doing well in his wake but La Volpe crashing and burning badly.  The jury is still out on Russo.

There is also immense chest-swelling pride at three Intercontinental Cups in 1977, 2000 and 2003.  Although Europeans generally are unconcerned about the title – seeing it as more of a pain in the rear end than an achievement – it cannot be underestimated how important this is to South Americans, partly as a cold dish of post-colonial revenge but mostly to show the richer clubs that even with a distinct financial handicap their clubs can be superior.

The total of 16 continental trophies leaves Boca Juniors neck-and-neck with AC Milan – and one above Real Madrid – although the balance could well sway back in favour of the Xeneizes if Grêmio can be downed.

Libertadores 2007 – The Road To Number 6?

This edition of the Libertadores is seen as something of an acid test after the Apertura 2006 was gifted to Simeone’s Estudiantes in December and San Lorenzo recently won the other half of the Argentine league by lifting the Clausura 2007 trophy.

The Xeneize performance in the local league does give an insight into the tactics that Miguel Angel Russo is using at Boca.  The favoured formation is a 4-3-1-2, the same that Bianchi used to allow Riquelme to shine so brightly.

In this system there is a certain sacrifice involved as Riquelme needs a bodyguard for his slower, more cerebral game to work well, hence the use of a threesome of holding midfielders to avoid lost possession turning into a rival goal.  A more standard 4-4-2 has been used from time to time, although everything points towards the 4-3-1-2 being employed in the Final.

Boca Juniors Domestic Performance (Torneo Clausura) 2007

Date / Venue / Rival / Result / Formation

10-Feb-07 away  Banfield  4-0      4-4-2

18-Feb-07 home Rosario Central  1-1      4-3-1-2 

24-Feb-07 away  Independiente.  3-1      4-3-1-2

04-Mar-07 home  S.Lorenzo  0-3      4-3-1-2

10-Mar-07 away  Estudiantes LP  3-1      4-3-1-2

18-Mar-07 home  Gimnasia. LP  5-1      4-3-1-2

25-Mar-07 away  Godoy Cruz  1-0      4-3-1-2

31-Mar-07 home  Nueva Chicago  2-0      4-3-1-2

08-Apr-07  away  Velez Sarsfield 3-1      4-3-1-2

15-Apr-07 home  River Plate 1-1      4-3-1-2

22-Apr-07  away  Newell’s Old Boys 2-1      4-3-1-2

29-Apr-07 home  Racing  2-2      4-3-1-2

06-May-07  away  Argentinos Jrs  3-3      4-3-1-2

13-May-07 home  Arsenal de Sarandí  1-1      4-3-1-2

20-May-07  away  Quilmes  2-1      4-4-2

27-May-07 home  Gimnasia. Jujuy  3-1      4-4-2

03-Jun-07  away  Colon  1-2      4-4-2

As far as the Libertadores goes it has hardly been a smooth ride, but Boca have proved that they don’t wilt like daisies in the heat of Libertadores pressure.  If we take a quick look at the journey we can see that it’s been a rocky road to the 2007 Final.

Group Phase

Group 7

Position / Club / Points / Played / Won / Drawn / Lost / Goals For / Goals Against / Goal Difference

1.  Toluca 12 6 4 0 2 10 6 +4

2.  Boca Juniors 10 6 3 1 2 11 5 +6

3.  Cienciano 9 6 3 0 3 12 8 +4

4.  Bolívar 4 6 1 1 4 5 18 -13

As the table reflects, it wasn’t Boca who triumphed in the first phase but Mexicans Toluca.  Boca started off with a poor draw away against minnows Bolivar, only managed a slim 1-0 over the weak Cienciano at home, were slammed 2-0 away in Mexico by Toluca (although they extracted revenge with a 3-0 whupping of the Mexicans at La Bombonera).

The first goalfest came with a 7-0 drubbing of Bolivar in Buenos Aires at the end of April that sealed the classification with a just a meagre point (and goal difference) over Cienciano.  With a bit of huffing and puffing Boca were through to the knockout phase.

Last Sixteen

The first hurdle also proved problematic for Boca, facing ex-Coach Ricardo La Volpe, now with fellow Argentine outfit Vélez Sarsfield.  The first leg seemed to indicate something of a turkey shoot as Riquelme, Palermo and Morel Rodriguez scored for a clean-sheet Boca.


The second leg almost spelled disaster, however, as Vélez Sarsfield muddied that clean sheet with their own trio of goals from Zárate (2) and Ocampo, but Riquelme and Caranta saved the day.  The former netted a vital away goal with a curled corner that beat Sebastián Peratta and the latter pulled off a series of providential saves.

Quarter-Finals

Having squeezed through Boca faced an easier task with Paraguayan underdogs Libertad, winning 0-2 away in the second leg (Riquelme and Palacio) after drawing 1-1 in the first match (Osvaldo Martínez for the visitors, Palermo for the hosts) to nab a spot in the semis with relative ease compared to the other fraught classifications.

Semi-Finals

The last hurdle before the Final brought Boca juniors face to face with the revelation of the current Libertadores Cup: Colombians Cúcuta.  It would end with sever déjà vu from the Vélez experience as Boca managed to shade it with a 4-3 aggregate scoreline. 

Things almost went pear-shaped in the first leg, Ledesma scoring with a 26th minute strike that would eventually equal classification, but a brace from Panamanian striker Blás Pérez and a Bustos goal left the Colombians on top for the decider.

The second leg was a triumphant stroll in the Bombonera park: 1-0 Riquelme, 2-0 Palermo and 3-0 Battaglia, although the plucky Colombians who bowed out with heads held high despite not managing to score in La Bombonera.

The Typical Boca Juniors Team – Libertadores 2007

BOCA JUNIORS (4-2-3-1): Caranta; Ibarra, Diaz, Morel Rodríguez and Clemente Rodríguez; Ledesma, Battaglia (Banega), Cardoso (Jesús Dátolo); Riquelme; Palacio and Palermo

Boca are lucky to be able to count on an on-song keeper whose performances have effectively kept the Xeneizes alive and kicking, although Bobadilla is a back-up in case his nagging injury that flared up in the 3-1 defeat to Cúcuta should sideline the number 12.

In front he can count on a sturdy back four in the shape of Ibarra, Diaz, Morel Rodríguez and Clemente Rodríguez, Ibarra carrying the weight of organisation and also showing commendable bite on the wing.  This foursome can mesh into a tight catenaccio-like formation if the three holding midfielders pull back.

The recent Clausura match against Belgrano showed a cast of reserve players, unsurprisingly given the Final, although Sebastián Battaglia and potential first eleven midfielder Jesús Dátolo were both fielded by Russo.  Lately it’s been Ledesma who’s been capturing the hearts of the Boca faithful in the wake of the Gago move to Madrid.

Alternating with the defensive mesh designed to keep Grêmio at bay, the midfield will also have to be vigilant and ensure they can drag markers away from Riquelme.  Juan Román Riquelme is the heart of Russo’s team in a similar way to his pre-Europe core role under Bianchi.  After a slow re-adaptation back to South American play Riquelme is back to his masterful pampas-prowling with that clinical eye for a last pass or a dead-ball opportunity.

In front he has a chalk and cheese duo that nevertheless have been pulling off great performances in tandem.  Palacio is more of a speed merchant whose diagonal cutbacks into the box from the wing and sudden arrival in the box has served Boca very well.  Add that to a mad Martín 'Loco' Palermo with a still-sharp nose for goal and the Xeneizes have some well-grounded reasons to approach the match with real hope and joy.
misha
Boca won 3:0 in the first game devil.gif
Portman
Libertadores final 1st leg: Boca 3-0 Gremio. rolleyes.gif

Riquelme: 1 assist and 2 goals (the 2nd was consider an own-goal though).
Jack Sparrow
^^^^

And we can actually get him if we want!!!
misha


dst
They get a weird horn with alien ears for a prize!?? rolleyes.gif biggrin.gif
Tennie
Not sure how much interest there is in this, but I was chatting with a journalist friend whilst on holiday in Utah. Real Salt Lake played an exhibition tonight against Boca Juniors (1-1 draw). My friend forwarded the Boca travel roster to me. I thought it made interesting reading.


2 Matias Silvestre DF 6-1 9/25/1984 Buenos Aires

3 Claudio Morel Rodriguez DF 5-9 2/02/1978 Asuncion, Paraguay

5 Sebastian Battaglia MF 5-11 11/08/1980 Santa Fe

8 Pablo Ledesma MF 5-10 2/04/1984 Codoba

9 Martin Palermo FW 6-3 11/7/1973 Buenos Aires

12 Mauricio Ariel Caranta GK 6-0 7/31/1978 Cordoba

13 Leandro Diaz MF -- -- --

17 Mauro Boselli FW 5-11 5/22/1985 Buenos Aires, Argentina

18 Marcos Mondaini FW 5-10 2/14/1985 Saenz Pena, Argentina

19 Neri Cardozo MF 5-8 8/08/1986 Mendoza, Argentina

20 Jonathan Maidana DF 6-0 7/29/1985 Buenos Aires, Argentina

23 Jesus Datolo MF 5-9 5/19/1984 Spegazzini, Argentina

25 Pablo Migliore GK 6-3 1/27/1982 Buenos Aires, Argentina

27 Nicolas Bertolo MF 5-11 1/02/1986 Cordoba, Argentina

31 Josue Ayala GK -- 5/30/1988 Buenos Aires, Argentina

33 Facundo Roncaglia DF -- -- --

34 Bruno Urribarri DF -- 1/06/1986 --

# Carlos Fondacaro DF -- -- --

# Nicolas Gaitan MF -- 2/23/1988 San Martin, Argentina

# Alvaro Gonzalez MF 5-8 10/29/1984 Montevideo, Uruguay

# Juan Krupoviesa DF 5-7 4/16/1979 San Miguel de Tucuman

# Matias Maidana D/M -- 3/09/1987 Buenos Aires, Argentina

# Lucas Pratto FW -- 6/04/1988 La Plata, Argentina

# Mariano Torres MF -- 5/19/1987 Buenos Aires, Argentina
kurtsimonw
I assume the numberless guys are not really first team players, but I know of quite a few of the others, seems like a decent strength team. A bad result for Boca I suppose, we should beat them IF they make the final. cool.gif

I can't understand why MLS teams are having so many friendlies though? It's unheard of to have a mid-season friendly over here!
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