[X-Offender]

Yeah, I really don't think Baselli would have had better luck than Bertolacci to be honest. The latter is the perfect example of an average player who might excel at inferior clubs but will choke big time in a big club.

[Danny]

You think he'd have produced that kind of form with us?

Not every small club player is unable to produce on the bigger stage.

He'd be in the same water as Bertolacci imo. Who was doing great things with Genoa as well but he's simply not good enough to be an integral part of Milan and neither is Baselli, or Bonventura before them, who has produced good performances for us, but he's simply not someone good enough to build around or to take us to the next level.

Players like these would have been bench fillers back in the day at Milan, now we're talking about using them as integral cogs in the team, and we wonder why we can't get into the CL positions

I guess it's the same old thing leading to the question I posed above, why do very average teams manage to have good to great seasons while performing very well, and while we granted don't have top players have a relatively good squad on paper (that granted might not be well balanced or a good mix), but still can't even manage to muster a mildly decent performance let alone a good result.

Because we're expected to win every match and do so with aplomb. And if we don't have big time players then we can't cope with the expectation.

But I stand by my reason that's not what's killing us this season.

[han2503]

Not every small club player is unable to produce on the bigger stage.



Because we're expected to win every match and do so with aplomb. And if we don't have big time players then we can't cope with the expectation.

But I stand by my reason that's not what's killing us this season.

True, there are a select few who go on to prosper and to do bigger and better things at bigger clubs.

Look at Verratti for example, from Serie B, to PSG on a big transfer and now he's one of the most coveted young players out there. But generally speaking this only happens with younger players like Verratti, sure there are exceptions, but when a player hits his mid 20s and he's still at a mid-table club (doing very well) it's generally because he's not good enough for a bigger stage.

Look at Cerci for example, he's excelled at smaller clubs throughout his career, had his shot to go to bigger clubs and failed, and excelled again when he went to a team like Toro, only to fail again when he got his big money move that he pushed for.

I think players who have the potential to be really great show this at a very young age. Generally speaking it's strikers like a Toni for example who bloom late in their careers and that's mostly because they're penalty area players who learn their craft over time.

[Danny]

I think Cerci has extenuating circumstances. He isn't a winger, he's a support striker. Best period of his career at Torino was in that slot. Every other big club has played him as a winger - and he just isn't one.

Today he looks bright and he's playing as a SS.

[X-Offender]

I think Cerci has extenuating circumstances. He isn't a winger, he's a support striker. Best period of his career at Torino was in that slot. Every other big club has played him as a winger - and he just isn't one.

Today he looks bright and he's playing as a SS.

Um, disagree. He's looked shite IMO and he's been clearly playing as winger.

[han2503]

I think Cerci has extenuating circumstances. He isn't a winger, he's a support striker. Best period of his career at Torino was in that slot. Every other big club has played him as a winger - and he just isn't one.

Today he looks bright and he's playing as a SS.

He was playing wide right in a 4-3-3 today, and I wouldn't call it a bright performance either, he was okay, had a couple of decent moments, especially with that pass to Bacca, but other than that, it wasn't anything to write home about.

Cerci is just a player who tends to excel at smaller teams, I don't think it has anything to do with positioning, he's just not cut out for playing at top sides.

[Danny]

Um, disagree. He's looked shite IMO and he's been clearly playing as winger.

Despite the fact he got applauded off by fans who booed him previously and the fact it was his best display in a Milan shirt to date, yes, you're spot on.

[Danny]

He was playing wide right in a 4-3-3 today, and I wouldn't call it a bright performance either, he was okay, had a couple of decent moments, especially with that pass to Bacca, but other than that, it wasn't anything to write home about.

Cerci is just a player who tends to excel at smaller teams, I don't think it has anything to do with positioning, he's just not cut out for playing at top sides.

Didn't look wide right to me at all. Barely saw him at the touchline once. It was always Abate over there or Kucka. He was further inside.

But herein lieth the problem with the club and the forum:

The match thread being derailed by Alex/Zaps/Mexes shite again, and now this about Cerci.

It's the same arguments by the same people over and over. Because we've nothing new and fresh to discuss.

We need a new direction at the club, and we need new member registrations because, honestly, these narrowing arguments about the same things by the same people every time I come on are why I left.

And I'm close to being bored to tears with it again.

[han2503]

Really Danny??? If we're not going to talk about our players and how they performed and who should play then WTF are we going to talk about on this MILAN forum???

I seriously don't get you. Should we talk about the weather and only the weather now?

Cerci is a Milan player, the topic turned to him, so what's wrong with discussing him, his past history or his most recent performance?

I said in the match thread that his performance today was probably his best in a Milan shirt, it's not anything to brag about though considering how utterly terrible he's played for us on any other previous outing.

And I disagree about his positioning, he was right out by the touchline throughout the game and only shifted a bit when Adriano came on. He was playing as a winger, his pass to Bacca started from a play on the wing where he came inside and made that pass.

[X-Offender]

Despite the fact he got applauded off by fans who booed him previously and the fact it was his best display in a Milan shirt to date, yes, you're spot on.

Well excuse me but that's my opinion. I said in the match thread that he had a few flashy moments, the assist being one of them, but most of the time he was messy and imprecise.

[Rossoneri7]

I totally understand why you would consider this the mother of all crisis Milan related, we have been regressing lower by the season. As if this team has become accustomed to failure (or worse yet, failure without trying). Lots of flaws in this Milan, we could sit here till the early hours figuring out how this is worse than that, but ultimately the coach needs a player 'representing him' on the field of play. A Seedorf/Scoles/someone who knows how to keep the ball, dictate tempo, communicates well and this list could go on. Simply put, a player the coach brings in to lead the team. Emphasis is on coach having the right eggs to make Silvio's omelette.

Ofcourse, the defense and midfield need this, that and the other. And that is just as crucial.

Coach change? as much as I dislike this ex interisti, I believe Milan's problems wont be fixed with a couple of smooth firing forwards and a strong goalkeeper. We have enough on our tables as it is, taking on another coach wont make sense unless its a long term thing. Milan has gone from an Ancelotti era straight to the Palermo era. I would rather we keep Miha, if for anything to piss the interisti off with. Plus he was a good at free-kicks, so why not (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) He could teach the lads a thing or two. Seedorf, Inzaghi, Miha, Allegri, <insert-name>. Even Mourinho would demand those waitrose premium-extra-bullshit-given eggs.

The market, or to be Specific The Milan Market, shall commense the instance Silvio and the Chinese sign the sale. Milan would push to wrestle PSG, Madrid and the likes in terms of capacity (sponsorships, tv, merchandise, a nice transfer kitty). If not, then ... Lets assume that Milan goes forth without that, the next step is kick Miha and upgrade Broochi/Donadoni. Then summer kick them both out and restart with either ancelotti (if we are lucky) or Rodgers (IMG:style_emoticons/default/96.gif)


P.S. Milan has been through worse, and I honestly believe this Chinese deal will happen at somepoint, just hope it is before the winter transfer break.

[maldini03]

I can't believe it's taken me this long to read this thread, where's Danny?! Come back, I have some fresh ideas!

I think that a small club player can go to a big team and jump in quality, look at Vidal, sure he made his name playing for his country but before that and for a major part of his career ~mid 20's was playing for smaller teams. He comes to Juve and bam he jumps the list to one of the top 10 midfielders in the world. For me it's a crap shoot, and it depends more on the mentality and work ethic of the player, and the players around him. Look at Benatia, Lewandowski Miranda. There are plenty of examples of players developing to their full potential despite playing for much of their careers at small teams. There are also players who seem promising with a big club, stall and resucrect themselves at smaller teams.

That being said, who knows if Baselli or Soriano would be able to make the jump to becoming stars, both are also relatively young so I would be surprised if they never get a chance to find out. The market today is a different beast then it has been in the past. Players are joining the best clubs as teens, with teams like Chelsea going for quantity hoping 1 in 10 can push their way into the first team. We simply don't have that business model, we go for quality young players. Abate, DS, Anto, Donna are not superstars by any stretch but they are good squad players. Without the superstars to inspire, push, and take the pressure off of them they don't really have a good chance to become superstars. In that vein, do you believe that Thiago Silva would be as good as his is without Nesta next to him? I'd bet not.