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> EL - Last 16 2nd Leg - Arsenal - Milan, Date: 15/03/18 Time: 21:00 CET

 
Fillipo Simone
post Mar 8 2018, 10:08 PM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ Mar 8 2018, 11:37 PM) *
Plenty of experience? Really, give me a handful of big CL ties that any of them have played.

Rodriguez played for Wolfsburg consistently in Europe. Hakan for years with Leverkusen.

QUOTE
I think it does have an impact.

A limited one. But it is a circular debate. We lack experience - why? Because are players ain't good enough (the older ones) to play European football. Why hasn't Bonaventura played euro-games so far? Because he isn't good enough.


QUOTE (han2503 @ Mar 8 2018, 11:40 PM) *
No doubt, that certain players are not CL level, but they're much better than they showed tonight and they have been showing this in the league.

Not sure here. Yes, they are better. Much better? Not sure.

QUOTE
Rodriguez should also be a rotation option, get rid of Antonelli and use him as a bench player. He's a good player but not good enough when you go to a certain level.

In modern football he's worth jack. He's slow and inconsistent, which exposes us constantly. Yes, a bench player definitively.

In fact all our buys this summer can be considered sub-par, too many inexperienced players and could-be players as well as bench players like Hakan, Rodriguez, etc. The only good by was Bonucci, and this was a lucky draw. I repeat, we gotta up our investments pronto. No more time for wasted money like Kalinić or too many inexperience.


QUOTE (amancik @ Mar 8 2018, 11:53 PM) *
Looking at things in longer-term, this is our window of opportunity to build our team to be dominant five years down the road. Most of the top teams in Europe are past their peak as their most influential players age I.e. Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, Bayern Munich. They will go through a new cycle like we did. I predict Liverpool, Man. City to be two of Europe's strongest teams in the next few years as they have great coaches and relatively young but experienced squad. So we should not hit the reset button again. We must build on this instead.

I don't know man. I'm not that optimistic. These top teams tend to accumulate talent immensely. They have the buying power and they have domination. It's not like before. If something doesn't change in modern football we'll be seeing the back of teams like Real and Barca for years to come.
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han2503
post Mar 8 2018, 10:48 PM
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QUOTE (amancik @ Mar 8 2018, 09:42 PM) *
I mean we have to get into the CL year in year out to obtain that experience. We cannot afford to miss out on European football. We have to sign better players for sure but we better not go on another spending spree. Three value added signings are good enough.

Yes, I understand, but I also feel like if we get into the CL now and get a slightly difficult group we won't be able to make it out of it.

The EL has allowed the team to get their feet wet. We've stumbled at the first difficult hurdle, no two ways about it, but it will serve as a lesson.

I agree, we need to start this summer with 3 quality signings and maybe 1 or 2 good rotation players.

Imo, we need a better LB, we need to replace Bona in the midfield, get a really good dynamic mid (I can't get Milinkovic-Savic out of my head but I know that's impossible) and a great striker. Cutrone is a good player and positionally he's 10 years ahead, but he's not a modern striker either, and to be a top side, I think that's essential

QUOTE (amancik @ Mar 8 2018, 09:53 PM) *
Looking at things in longer-term, this is our window of opportunity to build our team to be dominant five years down the road. Most of the top teams in Europe are past their peak as their most influential players age I.e. Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, Bayern Munich. They will go through a new cycle like we did. I predict Liverpool, Man. City to be two of Europe's strongest teams in the next few years as they have great coaches and relatively young but experienced squad. So we should not hit the reset button again. We must build on this instead.

All those teams you mentioned have huge spending power so they will manage to rebuild without taking big hits imo.

As for us, the pessimistic side of me, which I admit has been fed by this loss, feels like that once you're on the slippery slope it's virtually impossible to get back to where you were before, especially in today's football climate where money is everything, and that's something we lack. After years of Silvio not investing, we've been sold off to a shady Chinese guy who seems to have a lot of fake wealth. UEFA has rejected out voluntary agreement and we're at risk of being taken over by the hedge fund that loaned money to close the deal if the depth is not restructured.

So, I'm honestly very worried about our future. We spent a lot of money in the summer, but some of it wasn't spent very wisely. Sure more of the players are kicking into gear, and under the right direction we have a top 4 side imo. But they have a ceiling and it's not anywhere good enough in terms of competing for the big titles.

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Mar 8 2018, 10:08 PM) *
Rodriguez played for Wolfsburg consistently in Europe. Hakan for years with Leverkusen.

I think that's an exaggeration, you make it sound like they were seasoned CL players

Hakan has a grand total of 24 games in the CL and Rodriguez has an ample 13.

Hardly seasoned CL players. Rodriguez has a couple more EL appearances but not much either.

Fact is, none of these guys have any real experience playing these games, and I think that does have an effect. And that was maybe also part of the management's mistakes. Getting these types of players with the goal of being regular contestant in the CL in mind is counter-productive, no doubt.

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Mar 8 2018, 10:08 PM) *
A limited one. But it is a circular debate. We lack experience - why? Because are players ain't good enough (the older ones) to play European football. Why hasn't Bonaventura played euro-games so far? Because he isn't good enough.

Well, Bona was at Atalanta before he came to Milan and we've been out of Europe since before he joined. It's all relative. I'm not saying that he should have been playing in Europe but those were his circumstances.

Look, I don't think Bona is a top class player, far from it, he's a good Serie A player and a good squad player to have, he's been a sort of focal point of the team because everyone around him was basically pants, so he looked very good. I think this season he's been exposed a lot, he's showing that he's reached a ceiling in terms or what he can offer us and if we're serious about being competitive then he has to be a squad player.

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Mar 8 2018, 10:08 PM) *
Not sure here. Yes, they are better. Much better? Not sure.

The last 5 games have shown that they are much better imo. The games against Roma and Lazio for me were masterful, especially defensively. We showed none of that today.

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Mar 8 2018, 10:08 PM) *
In modern football he's worth jack. He's slow and inconsistent, which exposes us constantly. Yes, a bench player definitively.

In fact all our buys this summer can be considered sub-par, too many inexperienced players and could-be players as well as bench players like Hakan, Rodriguez, etc. The only good by was Bonucci, and this was a lucky draw. I repeat, we gotta up our investments pronto. No more time for wasted money like Kalinić or too many inexperience.

Like I said, all our buys have a certain ceiling, I think you've been extra harsh on Hakan, he's been good, especially under Rino. I think he's hindered a lot by Bona and Rodriguez tbh because they don't really see the passes he wants to make and don't make a lot of good runs for him. Bona tends to hold onto the ball way too long while Hakan tends to want to release it quickly which causes confusion there.

Kalinic was a mistake, and I think Biglia was also a mistake, he was great for Lazio, and he's been good recently, but he's not someone you can build around when you're aiming for certain things. We should have looked at more dynamic options. Kalinic has been a total disaster no doubt. Rodrigues looked good when everyone else was sh!t but now that everyone else has improved, his flaws are becoming glaringly obvious. Silva for me is a mystery. He's an incridbly skilful striker. He's quick, good at hold up and a very good passer, yet he's not been given the time at all to settle into this team. I get that Cutrone has scored more, but overall I think Silva would be better in terms of general team play, and once he's settled in that the goals would come

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Mar 8 2018, 10:08 PM) *
I don't know man. I'm not that optimistic. These top teams tend to accumulate talent immensely. They have the buying power and they have domination. It's not like before. If something doesn't change in modern football we'll be seeing the back of teams like Real and Barca for years to come.

Agreed

The money that certain team have is ridiculous, and I fear that we've been lead down a cull de sac with this sale to Li. I don't see how we can compete with any of those sides. Not even with Juve
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Fillipo Simone
post Mar 8 2018, 10:54 PM
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It's sad, but I really think that our time is over.
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maldini03
post Mar 8 2018, 11:08 PM
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Damn Fillipo you are really down on the team right now haha. I wasn't able to catch the game but I watched the result and just like everyone I am disappointed. I had hoped for a better result but Arsenal is ahead of us at the moment. We have been down for a while with a young coach and a very inexperienced team. They have players who have been through the CL, albeit not very far and a coach with experience.

I agree with a lot of the sentiment around here that these players - despite a few all have a glass ceiling. But, you don't buy Kalinic and Biglia and hope they turn into superstars. They are depth players who ended up costing way too much. But, we do have a backbone. Look at the team we have one of the most promising players at a lot of positions: GK, CB, RB, CM, CM, ST, SS. This type of game shapes them. We aren't winning the CL in the foreseeable future. It takes baby steps.

This game will (hopefully) burn the asses of those young guys. Next time they will remember. We need to invest in more players like them. Those 3 players han mentioned should be good solid starters with some room to grow. The squad players should be young guys who will grow into something. This year we spend the squad player money on guys with no future but next year we should once again supplement our spine and buy with an eye for the future.
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Fillipo Simone
post Mar 9 2018, 01:03 AM
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Sorry for being depressive, but well...

I really don't see any point in all this. Our players are green. The moment some of them cross that tiny imaginary line and become more reliable (good) they will be sold: like Donnarumma who's future is set with one of the bigger clubs. And all was for nothing. Look at Dortmund, selling like crazy and still not getting a grip.

This plus the fact that we are under shady ownership right now...makes me really think that Milan won't be coming back.
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Rossoneri7
post Mar 11 2018, 04:11 PM
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As I expected, Arsenal won the first leg. Not because Milan played badly, but because Milan lacks experience while Arsenal is rich in experience having participated in European competitions YoY. Form counts for nothing in 2-legged ties.

I sincerely hope Milan gets knocked out. Focus on the league and coppa italia.

Next up Genoa. Not an easy opponent for us.
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han2503
post Mar 15 2018, 09:45 PM
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Criminal dive by Wellbeck and scores from the penalty. F@cking ridiculous!
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han2503
post Mar 15 2018, 10:56 PM
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The result tonight is unjust. At least they gave it a try despite the odds.

We were robbed, that penalty just deflated everyone. I'm not saying we could have turned it around. But scoring that goal during that moment and taking it to HT would have been a huge boost to come on to the 2nd half pumped up to get another. The refereeing was shambolic in both legs imo and we were the ones who suffered for it. Hakan was also fouled in the penalty area in the first leg and wasn't given anything, but to give that for the blatant dive from Welbeck? Honestly so disappointed tonight because we deserved better

We deserved to lose the first leg, but we didn't deserve to lose today. Especially with that score

Donnarumma needs to grow up and put a muzzle on his agent as well. That goal just shows how much growing he still has to do. The fact that rumours still continue to swirl around him is just disgusting after the contract we gave him and his brother.
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X-Offender
post Mar 16 2018, 12:48 AM
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We were robbed, plain and simple. The first half would have ended 0-1, we would have scored in the second and eventually passed the round. Arsenal were not existent.

Terrible refereeing, but gotta say Rodriguez sort of asked for it. Why risk it when the ball would have gone out anyway. Stupid, stupid thing to do.

Overall we played well, up until their second goal, which practically killed the match.

But the main problem persists, that is, lack of goals from our forwards. Silva moved well today but lacks that final touch. Cutrone showed his clear limitations, and Kalinic is mostly a waste of space. Need to sign a top striker in the summer AT ALL COST!
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Jack Sparrow
post Mar 16 2018, 03:08 PM
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We need pace on the left wing and a forward. The midfield can last us one more season before we need an upgrade.
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maldini03
post Mar 16 2018, 03:55 PM
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I disagree Jack. We are so sorely missing a midfielder who can pick a pass. We haven't had one since Pirlo/ Seedorf. Cal and Bona aren't really dynamic creators IMO. They are rare but we need someone who can break a game open with their creativity
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han2503
post Mar 16 2018, 04:31 PM
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QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Mar 16 2018, 03:08 PM) *
We need pace on the left wing and a forward. The midfield can last us one more season before we need an upgrade.

I think a LB and someone to replace Bona are also sorely needed. We need to inject speed into our attacks and that starts from midfield, everything is just too slow and static. In the league we can get away with it (generally speaking) but we saw against Arsenal how much that hindered us.

QUOTE (maldini03 @ Mar 16 2018, 03:55 PM) *
I disagree Jack. We are so sorely missing a midfielder who can pick a pass. We haven't had one since Pirlo/ Seedorf. Cal and Bona aren't really dynamic creators IMO. They are rare but we need someone who can break a game open with their creativity

Agreed. It doesn't necessarily have to be someone like Pirlo or Seedorf, I think those types of players are pretty much extinct nowadays. My dream for that position would be Milinkovic-Savic. He's strong, quick, good goal scorer with both his head and feet, good vision and passing range and can put in a shift defensively. Sadly, he'll be out of our reach this summer with most big clubs with cash to spend coming a-knocking. But I feel like that's the mold of player we should be looking at. Someone dynamic, who can drive the midfield forward.

A LW and a striker are also essential. Having one slow winger and one quick one maybe you can get away with, but having two of them is just too much of a handicap. Not going for Deulofeu in the winter is looking more and more like a big mistake. If we only had that kind of outlet of pace in attack we'd be so much deadlier.

Also Rodriguez is a good player but I feel like he's holding that left side back because he doesn't really make the right runs. Also, I don't blame him at all on that false penalty, you always have to track your man, had he left him alone and Welbeck somehow got hold of possession in that position we'd all be accusing him of making a mistake. The dive was disgraceful and blatant, giving the penalty was even worse.
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Fillipo Simone
post Mar 16 2018, 06:31 PM
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Meh, Rodriguez is bench material.
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Rossoneri7
post Mar 16 2018, 07:39 PM
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Team walks out with heads up high. They did their best, teams like Arsenal are always tough.

Milan has to secure a European position on the table, that is the target. Then the coppa.
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han2503
post Mar 16 2018, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Mar 16 2018, 06:31 PM) *
Meh, Rodriguez is bench material.

I think you're too harsh on the guys we got from the Bundesliga. As I've said many times, and I think many would agree, both are good players, but if we have higher aspiration than just making 4th each year, then we have to look at players who are a level above.

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Mar 16 2018, 07:39 PM) *
Team walks out with heads up high. They did their best, teams like Arsenal are always tough.

Milan has to secure a European position on the table, that is the target. Then the coppa.

Agreed. The Curva guys were cheering their @sses off yesterday and it's a beautiful thing to see them still cheering on the players after a loss.

As many have said, we lost this in the 1st leg because of the dear in the headlights performance we gave at the San Siro. We were robbed yesterday no doubt. But I hope the players use that to spur them on for the rest of the season.

We have a must-win against Chievo coming up, then the international break and then Juve. Who we face at the absolute perfect moment because they have Real in the midweek.

We were not going to win this thing with Atletico still in there anyway and this frees up our calendar and will allow us to focus solely on the league from now till the Coppa final.

As for European football, EL is already in the bag, but we must do everything we can to get that last CL spot, and with Lazio still in the EL it will maybe give us better chances with them having their focus split. Same goes with Roma
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