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AC Milan - Milanfan.com _ Football Discussion _ [CL] Champions League 2014-15
Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Jul 20 2014, 03:44 PM
All Champions League talk in here...
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Jul 20 2014, 06:25 PM
Posted by: Danny Jul 20 2014, 07:02 PM
First season of my entire life neither Rangers or Milan have European competition. Utterly weird.
PS: I heard word that Milan and Utd might be trying to arrange friendlies with each other to compensate for lack of the above. Should get others involved, like Rangers.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 20 2014, 08:57 PM
Weird indeed.
With Milan out, who's gonna be your favorite/team you support?
Posted by: TriniKing_CE Jul 20 2014, 09:04 PM
With Milan out, who's gonna be your favorite/team you support?
I'll be backing PSG to an extent, in hope that Ibra & Thiago can bag a CL.
Posted by: Danny Jul 20 2014, 09:07 PM
With Milan out, who's gonna be your favorite/team you support?
That's a good question. Possibly Atleti. In reality, not really anyone. You?
Posted by: X-Offender Jul 20 2014, 09:53 PM
Roma or Napoli for me.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Jul 21 2014, 04:43 AM
Real Madrid for Carlo. Newcastle in England. And #TeamZlatan.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 21 2014, 08:44 AM
For me it's maybe PSG and Napoli, but surely not the same way I'd support Milan.
Posted by: han2503 Jul 21 2014, 09:29 AM
PSG and Roma are the obvious choices, can't stand to see any of the others win it.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 21 2014, 09:37 AM
Well, I wouldn't mind Ajax, Dortmund or some other underdog team lift the cup, but this won't happen.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 21 2014, 12:46 PM
Serie A + PSG + Madrid.
Posted by: X-Offender Jul 21 2014, 02:54 PM
Oh yeah, Dortmund for me too.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Jul 22 2014, 07:08 AM
Yeah I like Klopp. When I was in Munich, there was this very pretty girl at work, who was a Dortmund fan. I've liked the club ever since then. 
Posted by: X-Offender Aug 19 2014, 10:31 PM
Pity about Napoli. They were a mess in the first half, but they made a U-turn in the second and missed plenty of good chances. In Spain it's gonna be tough.
Posted by: han2503 Aug 20 2014, 07:20 AM
Italy might just end up with 2 teams once again. At this rate we're going to slip behind France and Portugal within the next season or 2
Posted by: Danny Aug 20 2014, 11:47 AM
We already fell behind!
Both these countries are a fair distance in front of us in terms of club ranking.
http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/trank2015.html
It's only going to get worse for Serie A.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 27 2014, 09:16 PM
So it's happening. Most probably 2 Italian teams in the CL this year.
Napoli with some appalling defending.
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Aug 27 2014, 09:26 PM
Napoli with some appalling defending.
Napoli lacks a lot on the European front, but they have a coach who has done it twice before. Hope they go through, heck we need them through
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 27 2014, 09:41 PM
Naah. I such defending...really can't get you anywhere. The need a normal CB and a good keeper desperately.
Posted by: han2503 Aug 27 2014, 09:47 PM
Yet, people on here still say they have a better defence then ours.
2 teams for Italy... It's just one big downward spiral, we'll be lucky if we have 2 CL places in a couple of years' time at this rate
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 27 2014, 11:09 PM
One defence conceded 39 and qualified for the CL. One defence conceded 49 and didn't.
Posted by: KillerMax Aug 27 2014, 11:11 PM
But I also think attack is the best form of defense and where Napoli are ahead of us is their attack!
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 27 2014, 11:20 PM
That's where we're going wrong then, we should play with 10 strikers.
Posted by: acid911 Aug 27 2014, 11:29 PM
The league is volatile right now, people. 
20 managerial changes in Serie A last season. Goals, defenses, attacks, forms and qualifications only count after stability. Financial and administrative.
Posted by: KillerMax Aug 27 2014, 11:48 PM
I can kick your lanky @ss you know.
Posted by: X-Offender Aug 28 2014, 01:24 AM
Napoli's defending, no words. I always said their defenders were never better than ours.
Posted by: Danny Aug 28 2014, 01:30 AM
You also said Roma's sucked, but here's Benatia with a 15M+ move to Bayern.
PS Bilbao could beat any team in Serie A at home with ease. Furthermore Napoli drew the first match in Naples.
What I will say is whether it's defending, midfield or attack - Serie A as a whole is just f*ckin' rotten now. It's been surpassed by the likes of France and Portugal completely, and Juve & Roma will get trashed in the CL this season.
Posted by: X-Offender Aug 28 2014, 01:40 AM
I never said it sucked, just that it wasn't much better than ours. And I did say that Benatia is/was their only good defender.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 28 2014, 07:50 AM
I remembering to dare say I wanted us to sign him.
I wonder why Bayern weren't interested in the chuckle brothers instead?
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 28 2014, 08:21 AM
So now Bayern is the measure of things? A team with the Boateng-Dante duo and a Milan-age van Buyten? Really?
Posted by: han2503 Aug 28 2014, 08:35 AM
Napoli are a better unit, not defence, the names they have in that area are laughable.
On the other hand we've been a mess for a while, we only started to do something in terms of team organization to help out the defence under Seedorf last season when we were far more compact and produced far better numbers.
Napoli's defence yesterday just made fools of themselves, that third goal was just idiotic
RE: Benatia, I still think he's good to ok, but he's certainly not a great or top class defender, don't kid yourselves, Roma's system made him look far better than he truly is and to show what a major and total pr!ck he is, he forced his way out to Bayern after Roma put him on the map. The key to having a great defence is having an even better midfield and Roma absolutely have that, same goes with Juve, look at the trio kurt used to hail so loudly of Chiellini, Bonucci, Barzagli for Italy, they look like bumbling idiots most of the time
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 28 2014, 09:32 AM
Certainly says more than a CB not wanted by Villarreal and a CB not wanted by Valencia.
Do they? At the World Cup defence was the last of Italy's problems, they couldn't score. At the Euros, it mostly fell apart when they played a back 4 and Chiellini went off.
Posted by: han2503 Aug 28 2014, 11:13 AM
Do they? At the World Cup defence was the last of Italy's problems, they couldn't score. At the Euros, it mostly fell apart when they played a back 4 and Chiellini went off.
Chiellini is the only decent one out of the lot of them imo. Just look through the Juve forum, they absolutely despise Bonucci and aren't too happy about Barzagli either, and these guys probably watch them more than we do
And I beg to defer about the World Cup. The defending was an absolute joke, Chiellini kept making mistakes, Barzagli was so slow it was painful to watch and Bonucci is just Bonucci. I get that it was mostly down to Prandelli's constant messing about with the midfield/formation/tactics in every one of the games played, but all 3 contributed to the downfall as well, scoring goals was an issue, but so was keeping a clean sheet
And I disagree about the Euros, Italy looked their best in that competition when Prandelli utilised the diamond midfield vs England and Germany
Posted by: X-Offender Aug 28 2014, 12:13 PM
I wonder why Bayern weren't interested in the chuckle brothers instead?
How nice of you to quote something I said nearly a year ago, when only a few weeks ago I considered Benatia as Roma's best defender and the only one who's good compared to the rest.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 28 2014, 12:44 PM
Juve fans rate Barzagli for the most part, I agree they aren't sold on Bonucci though.
Yeah, because that's the point I wanted to sign him and was told by a few people that he's not exactly that good. If you changed your mind on him recently, good.
Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Aug 28 2014, 12:55 PM
Boateng isn't too bad imo, just inconsistent.
Dante is an absolute liability.
Posted by: han2503 Aug 28 2014, 05:46 PM
Juve always with an easy group, let's see how they f@ck it up this time
Posted by: milanbuf88 Aug 28 2014, 06:15 PM
If Badstuber can get healthy and get a good run of games I think their best pairing might be Badstuber and Benatia.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 28 2014, 09:47 PM
Juve lucky, Roma pretty unlucky. As usual. One Italian club in the last 16. As bad as it gets.
Posted by: Ry4n Sep 4 2014, 02:16 PM
Posted by: han2503 Sep 4 2014, 03:50 PM
How come Pippo is there but no other Serie A coaches aside from Benitez?
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 4 2014, 04:02 PM
I was asking myself the same.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 4 2014, 04:33 PM
Not many from EPL either. Good.
Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Sep 4 2014, 05:59 PM
Is AVB lost?
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 4 2014, 11:05 PM
Where's the special one?
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 5 2014, 12:21 AM
There's a UEFA logo in the bakcground, I imagine he's avoiding it like the plague.
Posted by: KillerMax Sep 5 2014, 12:44 AM
Too much Platini, not enough Mourinho.
Posted by: Ry4n Sep 6 2014, 12:52 AM
As long as theres Carlo , Pippo , Klopp and Collina !! I'm good ,could not care for the rest tho !
Fergie and that tikki takka guy 
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 6 2014, 01:36 AM
I miss Collina.
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 13 2014, 09:11 PM
Poor Madrid. They undid everything good they built last season with that disastrous signing campaign. Another loss, another poor display. Di Maria should have never been sold, James should have never been bought.
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 13 2014, 09:28 PM
Oops, wrong thread. 
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 16 2014, 10:29 PM
Arsenal got lucky Mkhitaryan forgot how to play football. Could have easily been 5/6-0.
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 17 2014, 12:01 AM
Yeah. I saw the first half and part of the second, Arsenal were very bad. Happy for Immobile.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 17 2014, 08:20 PM
If you wanna see a live r@pe, watch Roma - CSKA.
Posted by: han2503 Sep 17 2014, 08:55 PM
Great to at least see a Serie A side swashbuckling it in the CL
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 17 2014, 09:09 PM
I certainly wasn't expecting Roma to win so easily, and with so many goals.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 18 2014, 07:26 AM
Go Italian teams. I dislike both Roma and Juve, but when they're in the CL, they have my support. We need some co-efficients ASAP.
Posted by: han2503 Sep 18 2014, 08:38 AM
That being said we're not going to win back big co-efficiants through the CL. That's certainly not how the Germans did it.
Tonight's games in the EL are what matters we have 4 teams in that competition, 3 of which should go far in it, no excuses there. If Italian sides start to make some decent effort in the EL then we can see that co-efficient climbing back up and who knows, maybe the Germans might get complacent in that competition now that they have 4 spots so they're more occupied with fighting for that spot in the league.
That being said, the fact that you get into the CL by winning the EL is a pretty great incentive.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 18 2014, 09:25 AM
But Italians being Italians will blame the UEFA for not keeping enough money in the UEFA tournament therefore not providing any benefits.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 18 2014, 10:08 AM
Well, that kind of logic has to perish. This is why I'm always against the likes of Udinese.
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 18 2014, 11:07 AM
Wait, what? Did they apply that rule?
Posted by: han2503 Sep 18 2014, 11:49 AM
As far as I know, yes, it starts from this season
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 18 2014, 12:13 PM
Interesting. So, what if, say, Inter win the thing but we end up 3rd in the league. Does that mean they take our place?
Posted by: han2503 Sep 18 2014, 01:04 PM
No I don't think that's how it works.
I honestly do not know, I just read that whoever wins the EL from this season onwards gets into the CL the following season. I don't really know how they'll figure out the logistics of it all.
Posted by: han2503 Sep 18 2014, 01:06 PM
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/22640095
I think this one explains it better
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11945/8732180/uefa-to-reward-europa-league-winners-with-champions-league-place-from-2015
So no, according to that, if the scenario you mentioned would happen, Italy would have 4 teams in the CL, 3 in the EL
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 18 2014, 05:31 PM
Nice!
Posted by: han2503 Sep 18 2014, 09:52 PM
Great week 1 for Italy, all wins aside from 1 draw from Torino who had the most difficult opposition out of all the other Italian sides in the EL not to mention they were away.
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 18 2014, 09:54 PM
Not to mention they're not good enough.
Posted by: han2503 Sep 18 2014, 10:29 PM
But it is admirable that they held their own, the fact that they're not good enough for the competition is not really their fault, they had a good season while we were complete sh!t so rightfully so, we did not deserve that place
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 19 2014, 12:19 AM
Well, they didn't deserve it either, Parma did. 
Posted by: han2503 Sep 19 2014, 09:17 AM
True but if they didn't have their admin stuff in order then it's also their fault not Toro's
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 19 2014, 09:47 AM
Read that Italy's performances now place us back above Portugal in the coefficients.
Posted by: han2503 Sep 19 2014, 10:31 AM
I think that was going to happen anyway because the earliest year taken into account will be wiped out this year (I read it was a very good one co-efficient wise for Portugal). So for now Italy's 4th place ranking is safe, no matter what really happens this season
Posted by: arivanjj Sep 26 2014, 10:56 AM
Anyone know where best place would be to get tix for psg barcelona game?
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 30 2014, 07:55 PM
Maicon surely knows how to f*ck his team. First causes an idiotic penalty, then shoots instead of passing to a completely free Cole that would have just tapped it in. Moron.
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 30 2014, 08:38 PM
Goddamn, Roma play some impressive football! It's not just the quality of the players, but they know exactly what to do. They constantly press the opponent, they cover their areas, defenders rarely lose their men, they're always moving and switching positions instead of being static. So much good stuff. And to think they're missing De Rossi, Strootman and Iturbe. Garcia has truly done a remarkable job. Fantastic coach. That coupled with an ambitious and clever management and you've got success on a golden plate.
How do we even compare? Rookie coach that keeps making mistakes, clueless players that don't know the f*ck they're doing on the pitch, a worn-out and senile management. *sigh*
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 30 2014, 09:29 PM
Aside from that penalty, he's been fantastic.
Kompany is so overrated it's hilarious.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 30 2014, 09:39 PM
Wins for Jose and PSG, Roma get a point in Manchester. Good CL day.
Posted by: acid911 Sep 30 2014, 09:42 PM
Well, Roma's stock is currently trading at €0.68. Up 0.01 today.
What do you say, we make some tactical investment, eh, R7, my man?! 
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 30 2014, 09:45 PM
A bit shaky defensively, especially in the second half, but yeah, he was good overall.
Good draw for Roma. They can make the KO round if they give it all in the group stage.
Posted by: acid911 Sep 30 2014, 09:49 PM
Well Maicon is a quality player, hard to deny. There's a reason why he's playing in Roma, after all.
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 30 2014, 09:55 PM
He seemed finished in his last year at Inter and at City, but he's managed to come back. I also thought Ashley Cole was superb.
Posted by: acid911 Sep 30 2014, 10:05 PM
Yeah, always thought of him as a class player. Guys like this are rarely finished, as in totally, until they retire. And then we have some of our defenders who never even started, and they don't even know it. Earning free money, as far as I am concerned, putting in nothing during matches.
Plus, we have that guy that costs us €166,666 a week, and then sits out, because, well, coaches don't think of him too highly. For me, he is the first name on the sheet, as long as he's with us. Can't be worse than others.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 30 2014, 10:22 PM
Incomparable.
I know the term "champion" and "winnger" may have a Gallianesque ring, but it does mean something. Seedorf, Costacurta, more recently Ibrahimović, etc etc. were winners and champions. Players who proved themselves over and over again and you never could deny the won their share of silverware and made their share of big wins. They faded in time or are starting to fade, but they still show us what they're worth and how they can play big.
What has Mexes ever won to be up there? For some goddam reason almost every French manager from Domenech to Deschamps avoided him, and every Milan manager seems to have a similar problem. Now this cannot be a coincidence nor a "petulant" move like Han likes to call it.
But comparing Maicon to Mexes is completely wrong. Maicon won with Inter, with Monaco. He proved himself over and over again. Mexes? Yes, he's good on his good day, but he's not up there with them...
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 30 2014, 10:25 PM
Oh and yes, Roma were good to watch (although Pjanić and Gervinho destroyed an incredible amount of chances with simple errors) - but Citys defense was horrific, especially in the first 45 minutes. Got caught wide in numerous occasions, the fullbacks moved inappropriate and never managed to cover Roma's sides,...just very, very bad. Kompany is definitively overrated.
Posted by: acid911 Sep 30 2014, 10:39 PM
Who was doing a comparison, Fillipo? 
I was merely stating that we have a player rotting on the bench, earning bucket loads of money, when he could be better used to build a defense around. Can't be much worse than what we are treated to with any given Sunday during matches, can he?
I think there's a bit of a sinister motive from the management, nothing else. Freezing him out for some reason. But as for comparison with any of the greats you mentioned, or even Maicon, I know better than that, man.
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 30 2014, 10:48 PM
He's simply being frozen due to his wage. Allegri ignored him initially after the huge shake-up we had in 2012, relying on Bonera, but then realized Mexes is the best we could afford and played him regularly for the majority of the games. Same with Seedorf. This time though we have Alex, along with Rami, so Mexes eventually becomes a 5th choice and rots on the bench.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 30 2014, 11:01 PM
I don't think it's that simple. Look, it happened again and again, not just with Milan managers but with the French NT managers as well. There's something wrong with this guy I suppose.
Posted by: acid911 Sep 30 2014, 11:03 PM
Let's end this, then. 
Hopefully he gets to leave in January.
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 30 2014, 11:41 PM
Something wrong? Yeah, he's probably a werewolf.
Come on now, Fillipo. He wasn't called by Domenech who's a total douche, and he wasn't called by Deschamps who also left out Nasri. NT call-ups mean nothing. They're all about coach favorites and in-form players. Mexes isn't exactly a world beater either, so him either being called up or left out doesn't stir any controversy and such. He was always a starter at Roma if that means something to you.
Nah, anyone who can put two and two together can see that Mexes is a good defender. He just happened to join us in a very chaotic period. We've changed CB pairings over the last 2-3 years for god knows how many times, and really, Mexes has been the most constant in terms of number and quality of performances. Everyone else has been hit and miss.
I tell you, the guy just isn't deemed necessary anymore because of his high wage. He's our highest earner if you forgot that. And he rots on the bench. We tried offloading him this summer but it didn't work, so we'll try to offload him once again during winter. It's typical Galliani treatment.
Same thing happened with Dida in his final years with us. Be it Abbiati or Kalac, we still ended up relying on good ol' Dida because, howlers aside, he was the best we had.
Posted by: Danny Sep 30 2014, 11:45 PM
Mexes is this forum's new Muntari.
In the red corner weighing in at a combined 250 lbs we have Acid, Han and X-Off who see Mexes as essentially the most wasted player at the club.
In the blue corner weighing in at a combined 100000000000 lbs we have the rest of us who would be happy to drive the hothead to the airport ourselves.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 1 2014, 09:06 AM
Deschamps did leave Nasri out because of his attitude/personality, maybe he felt similar about Mexes.
I don't know where to sit with Mexes. He's certainly better than Bonera and Zapata and I've always thought Alex was somewhat overrated defensively. So I think at the end, I probably agree with this from what X-Off said.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 1 2014, 09:34 AM
For some reason, the guy made around 20 caps for France in 10 years. Santini, Domenech and Deschamps avoided him almost completely, while only Blanc found a way to play him more regularly. For some reason, he was being dropped tournament after tournament.
Now, considering France do not have exactly stellar defenders apart from a few (Abidal, Gallas in-form, etc.), one could imagine to find Mexes being called up and playing more regularly then some other guys.
So no, this is not the same a Dida. Dida only fell out of position because he started to deteriorate and collected a fair amount of howlers. And you know how it's with keepers: you don't change them like they're fullbacks or attackers.
The thing with Mexes is that for some reason coaches eliminate or sideline him time after time. Yes, agreed, he is a good defender on his day, but that's exactly why I think there must be more into this.
But Acid is right, enough said, at least from my part.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 1 2014, 10:50 AM
Now, considering France do not have exactly stellar defenders apart from a few (Abidal, Gallas in-form, etc.), one could imagine to find Mexes being called up and playing more regularly then some other guys.
Cassano was continuously avoided by Lippi even when he was in stellar form. Nainggolan was also excluded this year by Wilmots even though he's by far the best DM Belgium has. Like I said, when judging a player's quality, NT call-ups should be your last source.
He was always a starter at Roma. Now that tells you something.
The thing with Mexes is that for some reason coaches eliminate or sideline him time after time. Yes, agreed, he is a good defender on his day, but that's exactly why I think there must be more into this.
The reason I compared it to Dida is because even after a coach decides to sideline him, he still ends up relying on him when he realizes that he's better than everyone else who've got. It happened with Allegri, and it happened with Seedorf. Perhaps the guy doesn't have a good character, which coupled with what he earns makes him an easy target to bench.
But we can judge by ourselves. We've seen him play many times, and even though he's not exactly Thiago Silva, compared to the likes of Bonera and Zapata who Pippo prefers instead, he's miles better.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 1 2014, 08:44 PM
F*ck Atletico! They're a bunch of dirty whiners that play some of the most unattractive football in Europe.
Posted by: Danny Oct 1 2014, 09:46 PM
Delighted with the result. Well-deserved. Juve just aren't up to CL level, and Atletico know how to win.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 1 2014, 10:03 PM
Yeah, Juve were very poor. Allegri needs to drop the 3-man defense ASAP, but the problem is that they have no wingers or a proper AM. Coman is too green and Pereyra is average. Unless he plays Vidal or Marchisio there, which really would be typical Allegri like he did with Boateng and Emanuelson. Not to mention their only LB is 33-year-old Evra...
Posted by: Danny Oct 1 2014, 10:38 PM
Who tonight was played as a left winger...
Roma seem far more suited to CL football than Juve, who just don't know what it takes to succeed at that level. Roma themselves are no astounding team but they have a LOT of incredibly good players with lots of experience at CL level and higher.
Juve will struggle to get to the last 16, while Roma may actually manage it.
But it shows the decline of Serie A when its supposed best team struggles at that level.
But then, isn't it ironic that England's supposed best team, Man City, does too? In the battle of 'new European forces' between City and PSG it's PSG who are streets ahead of City.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 16 2014, 03:08 PM
This club is becoming more of a joke.
16 October ~ In the 1990s AC Milan owner Silvio Berlusconi complained that it did not make economic sense that the European season of top clubs such as his Milan could be over by the beginning of November, or even earlier. Those were still the days of European competitions with straight knockout rounds and no seedings. So, in 1988-89, Napoli found themselves up against Real Madrid in the first round and promptly went out, a fate which also befell Inter two years later against the much more modest Malmo.
Berlusconi's wish was soon granted as the European Champions Cup became the Champions League. But some people are never satisfied, and so now, again from Milan, has come another suggestion. The author is Umberto Gandini, a director of the club who is little-known outside Rossoneri circles.
No doubt influenced by the fact that Milan are not in Europe this season, he has come up with the idea that in order to improve the prestige of the Champions League certain clubs who have had the misfortune not to qualify due to poor league campaigns should be granted wild card entry to the competition. He named seven Italian and six English clubs who fight for, respectively, three and four places, and his argument seems to be that they should all be in the Champions League ex officio.
He says: "Every year two or three miss out and either go into the Europa League or 'have to' go without European football." And of course he could not fail to mention the importance to the clubs of revenue from European football, though it seems to have escaped his notice that for most clubs "going without" European football is the norm.
That this suggestion should come from Italy, a country where the national cup competition is programmed to ensure that two of the top clubs reach the final, should not come as a surprise. If its wider implications, the idea is clearly outlandish. Imagine that a medium-sized club, say Verona or Sampdoria, finish above Milan but out of the European placings. Gandini seems to be saying that Milan should leapfrog over them simply because of their past glories. So some Serie A clubs would be in Europe whatever their final league position, while others knew that no matter how well they performed they would never be allowed in. Yet most small- to medium-sized top division clubs manage to survive without any of the European money that Gandini seems to think is indispensable.
According to Gandini's logic clubs such as Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Sheffield United, Derby and Nottingham Forest should be in the Premier League at the expense of five of the current members with less "sporting merit" or support. That is without mentioning all the former League clubs in the Conference and the often smaller clubs that have replaced them.
Gianni Infantino, UEFA general secretary, has said that there is no chance of Gandini's proposals being adopted, but the power that the top clubs now wield suggests caution. It is not inconceivable that it could happen. And if it does it will be another nail in the coffin of the idea of football as an exercise in meritocracy and a sport which, more than almost any other, sometimes sees little triumph over large and be rewarded for doing so.
I hope it's true that it won't happen. But the fact it's even being suggested is a bit sad.
I imagine if it was to happen, smaller winners like Forest, Villa and Red Star/Crvena Zvezda won't be given entry. Just the big names
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 16 2014, 03:35 PM
That is one of the craziest and most absurd propositions I've ever heard of. And it's sad that it's coming from an official of our club.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 16 2014, 04:04 PM
Posted by: han2503 Oct 16 2014, 07:38 PM
So they want in on it without ever having to do the work or financial input that it requires to be in that competition, so typical of our management's new style of approach, cutting corners and taking shortcuts wherever they can without doing any leg work.
If this were to happen (never will in Galliani's wildest dreams) we'd be left with a Serie B squad. Just as long as they can get that CL money they won't care about much else
Posted by: Danny Oct 16 2014, 09:25 PM
I'm the only fan who agrees with the Club on this.
Fucking Ludogorets, who sound like a throat lozenge, are in this, and Milan, Utd, Rangers, Celtic and a few others who should be there aren't.
Don't get me wrong, it IS desperate, but you have to question the appeal of the competition this year. More has been made about the teams NOT in it than those IN it.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 16 2014, 10:17 PM
Fucking Ludogorets, who sound like a throat lozenge, are in this, and Milan, Utd, Rangers, Celtic and a few others who should be there aren't.
Don't get me wrong, it IS desperate, but you have to question the appeal of the competition this year. More has been made about the teams NOT in it than those IN it.
I can't believe you're saying this. Can't you see the absolute unfairness in all of it? Rewarding undeserving clubs like us and United, and disqualifying clubs who work hard all season only to be penalized by their inferior appeal and history. Everyone should have equal chances, be it Real Madrid or Ludogorets. The competition will never decline in appeal and financial income just because a few clubs don't make it every now and then.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 16 2014, 10:57 PM
The competition is already hilariously unbalanced in favour of the big nations.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 16 2014, 11:16 PM
There's nothing to do about it though, is there? For small clubs participation in itself is the victory, having to play with European powerhouses at the most prestigious football club tournament in the world. The only thing UEFA can do is put all inferior clubs into their own groups, but that would make their games completely uninteresting, and they would still have to go out once in the KO stages regardless.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 16 2014, 11:22 PM
There's nothing that can be done now, no. Football essentially ended in 1992 and the Champions League is what killed it IMO.
Posted by: Danny Oct 17 2014, 01:01 AM
I absolutely can see the unfairness in it, but money speaks louder than morals. Fact is a CL without Man Utd, Milan, Rangers and Celtic gets less viewers than one with them.
The level of sponsorship can be affected by losing the global interest of the estimated several hundred million fans those four clubs have in total.
And from a selfish point of view I really miss Rangers and Milan (and Utd) in the competition.
As an aside, I'd suggest an expansion to the CL so that seasons where big teams miss out, they can get a wildcard entry.
After all, by dismissing this idea you're also suggesting any sport which uses wildcards is undermining those who got there on merit.
As another aside, this competition lost its morals a long time ago anyway. It's no Champions League, it's a European Super Cup.
Posted by: Danny Oct 17 2014, 01:02 AM
That's a bit unfair. It was only a rebranding of an existing tournament.
It was when non-champions got in, THAT'S when the tournament started losing its credibility as a 'Champions League'.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 17 2014, 01:03 AM
It was when non-champions got in, THAT'S when the tournament started losing its credibility as a 'Champions League'.
My bad, I thought the rebranding happened the same time as the none-Champion entries. So I completely agree, letting in a bunch of other clubs was what ruined it for me.
Posted by: milanbuf88 Oct 17 2014, 07:37 AM
The level of sponsorship can be affected by losing the global interest of the estimated several hundred million fans those four clubs have in total.
And from a selfish point of view I really miss Rangers and Milan (and Utd) in the competition.
As an aside, I'd suggest an expansion to the CL so that seasons where big teams miss out, they can get a wildcard entry.
After all, by dismissing this idea you're also suggesting any sport which uses wildcards is undermining those who got there on merit.
As another aside, this competition lost its morals a long time ago anyway. It's no Champions League, it's a European Super Cup.
What sport actually uses wildcards other than the Ryder Cup competition in golf?
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 17 2014, 07:58 AM
Big Brother?
I think a few tennis tournaments do have this concept.
Posted by: han2503 Oct 17 2014, 10:22 AM
Agreed, not to mention that those clubs won their league and are actually Champions plus had to go through the wringer to qualify for the group stage while the big nations have 3/2 sides automatically in it.
Sorry but this suggestion is ridiculous and I'm ashamed that it was once again Milan who come out with this BS
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 17 2014, 10:23 AM
Once again? Why, did we make any other suggestions?
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 17 2014, 10:45 AM
The European Cup has been modified over the years, the latest suggestion is just to further modify and expand the current edition of the same.
Clubs like Milan/inter will look for solutions to their problems, and one of them would be what was suggested.
I'd rather have Milan directly qualify for the competition, but if the same is unachievable then it is the executives job to be creative in finding solutions for such issues.
Posted by: han2503 Oct 17 2014, 12:37 PM
Not suggestions but this goes along with many of the other themes we've seen the management put out. Like the most titled club in the world shtick they had going for a while.
They're not the same thing obviously but just more things that are embarrassing to this club's image. Saying that we should be given automatic entrance in the CL because we have history in the competition but couldn't be @arsed in terms of improving the team and actually fighting for a position fairly is imo embarrassing to the image of the club
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 17 2014, 02:24 PM
This is super old news. He came out on twitter and said it was just his personal opinion. I'm not a big fan of Gandini. I think he's poor at his job. I guess he's one of those nice blokes who almost all organizations keep around just coz they've always been there.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 17 2014, 02:39 PM
They're not the same thing obviously but just more things that are embarrassing to this club's image. Saying that we should be given automatic entrance in the CL because we have history in the competition but couldn't be @arsed in terms of improving the team and actually fighting for a position fairly is imo embarrassing to the image of the club
Naah, I don't buy into that so much as you do. But btw, why was that "most titled club in the world" thing so embarrassing? I think club officials in general talk too much and have stupid ideas (just think of Platini for starters). But no one cares, I truly believe this has zero impact on Milan's reputation.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 17 2014, 03:14 PM
Yep. Goran Ivanisevic wasn't ranked high enough to enter Wimbledon, but as he'd made Finals previously and had an injury that affected his ranking he was given permission to enter (and then won it).
Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 21 2014, 08:15 PM
What a meltdown by Roma. 0-3 after 25 mintes at home.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 21 2014, 08:16 PM
Bayern are just too good. 4-0.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 21 2014, 08:16 PM
0-4 after 30 minutes. Embarrassing.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 21 2014, 08:17 PM
De Sanctis should seriously think about his retirement. What a horror performance.
Posted by: han2503 Oct 21 2014, 08:17 PM
So embarrassing to watch this as a Serie A fan...
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 21 2014, 08:21 PM
Dear lord...
Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 21 2014, 08:25 PM
Posted by: han2503 Oct 21 2014, 08:32 PM
These Roma players must wish they can forfeit the game, at least the result would be more respectable.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 21 2014, 08:39 PM
Blame it on Garcia. He thought he could take Bayern on and went with a very offensive approach. But even so, Roma's defenders had no idea what the hell they were doing. Shambolic result, hopefully Bayern don't score more.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 21 2014, 08:58 PM
Did you guys know that Lahm has retired from the NT? Weird...
Posted by: acid911 Oct 21 2014, 09:17 PM
Of course.
Soon after the tournament.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 21 2014, 09:21 PM
6-1. What an amazing combination.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 21 2014, 09:30 PM
It's Brazil-Germany all over again.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 21 2014, 09:33 PM
Or ManU-Roma.
Posted by: han2503 Oct 21 2014, 09:35 PM
Terrible, terrible, terrible
Roma's tactical naivety plain to see here
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 21 2014, 09:56 PM
Why weird? He left at the top.
Posted by: Danny Oct 21 2014, 11:12 PM
This result puts a lot of perspective on England, Russia, Germany and Italy.
Roma went to City and got a credible draw in a match many saw as a 'cracker' between a top Italian side and the English champions.
However Bayern absolutely demolishing them away shows how far Italy have fallen, and just how poor City are in Europe.
They threw away a 2-0 in Moscow and dropped another two points, and somehow Pellegrini's millionaires just cannot translate their domestic form to European competition.
The Group of Death is a stroll for Bayern, while Roma, miles behind them, are still miles ahead of City, who are significantly ahead of Moscow.
Italian sides are appalling in Europe, bar Milan.
Juve got that lucky win V Malmo but were easily beaten by Atleti, if not by as many scores as the gulf in class merited. And Roma comfortably beat the woeful CSKA, scraped a draw against a dire City, and were simply r*ped tonight by a Bayern who arguably aren't what they were under Heynckes.
Football. A funny old game.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 21 2014, 11:33 PM
He's only 30.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 21 2014, 11:38 PM
Well Lahm has always been "special". He published a rather controversial autobiography that pinched quite a few players he played with. Beside this, Lahm left Germany at the top.
Posted by: Danny Oct 22 2014, 12:35 AM
I'd suggest having won almost everything there is to win at NT level, he retired at the top.
And it helps prolong his club career.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 22 2014, 06:35 AM
I've always disliked Roma. They're moaners through and through and I actually enjoy they got stuffed. F@ck em and their holier than thou attitude. Lazio anyday!
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 22 2014, 10:00 AM
Yeah, but this has not been about loving or liking Roma at all. Having the second team in Serie A get humiliated with 7 goals on their turf is something very bad for the whole Italian league.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 22 2014, 11:03 AM
Bayern got 4 from Madrid last year in Munich, Barça got 7 overall from Bayern two years ago. It's a terrible result, surely, but I wouldn't look so much into it. Everyone knows that Bayern are light years ahead of Roma. Garcia just approached the game in the worst possible way, and let Bayern do whatever they pleased. If they'd played more on the defensive and used their chances better, I'm sure the result wouldn't have been so tragic.
Posted by: Danny Oct 22 2014, 11:32 AM
Well personally I don't give a shite about the whole Italian league, just Milan.
I never did.
And I hate Roma. So EL OH EL.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 22 2014, 12:27 PM
Two curious facts:
1. Last time Roma lost with such a huge goal difference was against ManU in 2007, precisely 7-1
2. Last time a team coached by Garcia lost with such a huge goal difference was 6-1, when he was training Lille, against ... wait for it... Bayern
Posted by: William405 Oct 22 2014, 07:31 PM
1. Last time Roma lost with such a huge goal difference was against ManU in 2007, precisely 7-1
2. Last time a team coached by Garcia lost with such a huge goal difference was 6-1, when he was training Lille, against ... wait for it... Bayern
1- Ohhh, I remember that match..some real battering.
2
..He has some issues with Bayern.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 22 2014, 09:22 PM
Juve playing pretty well in the second half. Very unlucky not to have scored so far.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 22 2014, 09:42 PM
Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2014, 09:44 PM
The Italian champions and their closest rivals humiliated in different ways this week, great couple of days for Italian football 
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 22 2014, 09:45 PM
Did you see the game?
Posted by: Danny Oct 22 2014, 10:07 PM
Juventus just don't have CL DNA inside them. However well they may play at CL level they just don't know how to win.
I've preached this for years, and as Han knows, I got abused elsewhere for saying it. By Milan fans! But, the results bear my view out.
They just don't know how to do CL.
And the fact they're actually not very good at at doesn't help - further evidence of the decline of Serie A in CL. Milan aside.
Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2014, 10:42 PM
Did you see the game?
Nope, don't really need to, no matter how they played they still lost to a Greek side. And most people won't have seen it either, they'll look at this result and the Roma one and they'll come to their own conclusions
Roma were awful yesterday, totally and completely outclassed by Bayern, this is the side that is basically the only other challenger in our league for the title while the undisputed favourites can't even win against a Greek side and got humbled by Atletico. This says it all about Serie A in general
I know Roma were just naïve in how they approached the game, but I would expect a tactically astute coach/team to approach a game against one of the top 3 sides in world football right now more prepared than they were, instead we saw an idiotic gung-ho performance. At least in the past with Italian sides you'd at the least expect them to be stubborn and incredibly difficult to break down. Juve's loss is just the icing.
Hopefully the clubs in the EL do better tomorrow.
Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2014, 10:45 PM
I've preached this for years, and as Han knows, I got abused elsewhere for saying it. By Milan fans! But, the results bear my view out.
They just don't know how to do CL.
And the fact they're actually not very good at at doesn't help - further evidence of the decline of Serie A in CL. Milan aside.
We haven't been great shakes in Europe either for a while now, we've only gotten past the last 16 once since we won it in 2007 and have been repeatedly humbled by Barca and once against Man U during that time. Fact is Italian sides just cannot compete in terms of quality.
However there shouldn't be any excuses for Juve, they have a far better team than Olympiacos and still lost, yeah they're not a good continental side, that's true, the fact that they've only won the thing twice in their history considering all the riches they had throughout the years says it all
Posted by: dst Oct 22 2014, 11:02 PM
Olympiacos are actually a very solid team. They also beat AM at home on opening night. They lost at Malmo but they should have won there too.
That said, I agree with what you say about Juventus lacking CL DNA.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 22 2014, 11:05 PM
Then you can't really say they got humiliated. Juve completely dominated the second half, and the only reason they didn't score 2-3 goals tonight was because Olympiakos' goalie made some incredible saves.
I would agree with what Danny said every other day of the week, but not tonight. Tonight Juve played well and didn't deserve to lose.
Besides, Olympiakos also beat Atletico Madrid, last year's finalists and Spanish champions, so you shouldn't underestimate them.
Posted by: Danny Oct 22 2014, 11:12 PM
That was mine
Posted by: Danny Oct 22 2014, 11:16 PM
But they did. And that's my point. Look at this picture:
That's a Barca (last season) who 'didn't deserve to lose' - but Celtic, until this season, were basically unbeatable at Parkhead no matter WHAT you did, how well you played.
Have you ever seen stats like those?
Well Celtic knew how to win at home - regardless of what Barca threw at them.
Juve are the opposite - they can play as well as they like, as Barca did that night, but they just do not have the mentality or CL 'stuff'.
They are not, never have been, and never will be a CL team. They are a domestic titan, but it will never translate to Europe.
Posted by: Danny Oct 22 2014, 11:22 PM
Errr what? We've made it to the last 16 5 times since 2007.
I agree there, but Milan are by far the most successful at this level. Even last season when we were domestically woeful we still got to the last 16. More than a supposedly stronger Juve did, with a weaker group than we had.
I remember the match they drew v Galatasaray - they played 'well' that night and 'deserved' to win. But the fact is they didn't.
Winning is about knowing how to win, not deserving to.
Posted by: Danny Oct 23 2014, 02:20 AM
Press in UK giving Balo absolute dog's abuse. Not abuse, you understand, but utterly valid criticism.
Every passing failed match, every passing addition to his 'emotional baggage' collection continues to vindicate myself and X in terms of not being able to shove him out the door fast enough. I was overjoyed we got £16M for him, because now everyone seems to think Liverpool were robbed. And they were.
It was plain to those who understood that Balo is just a lost cause, and moving to Anfield wasn't going to make him anything else.
The guy, quite simply, is a total and utter d*ck and he ruins every club he's at.
I'm just glad it's a club I hate he's now doing it to
Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 23 2014, 06:35 AM
No better club for him to fail at too. Fans so full of self delusion it's unreal. This post when he signed was embarrassing to read.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 23 2014, 11:55 AM
Posted by: Danny Oct 23 2014, 12:04 PM
So tweeting this
Posted by: Danny Oct 23 2014, 12:05 PM
DP
Posted by: han2503 Oct 23 2014, 01:11 PM
I wrote "into" instead of "past". Fixed it. We've only got past the last 16 once during that time period
Posted by: Forza Milan! Oct 23 2014, 05:22 PM
Every passing failed match, every passing addition to his 'emotional baggage' collection continues to vindicate myself and X in terms of not being able to shove him out the door fast enough. I was overjoyed we got £16M for him, because now everyone seems to think Liverpool were robbed. And they were.
It was plain to those who understood that Balo is just a lost cause, and moving to Anfield wasn't going to make him anything else.
The guy, quite simply, is a total and utter d*ck and he ruins every club he's at.
I'm just glad it's a club I hate he's now doing it to
Yup. Had my doubts, somehow believed that maybe Pippo could bring out the champion in him, and felt we should have gotten more money out of him on a transfer. However, it looks like he is hopeless. Good riddance !
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 23 2014, 10:51 PM
I've preached this for years, and as Han knows, I got abused elsewhere for saying it. By Milan fans! But, the results bear my view out.
They just don't know how to do CL.
And the fact they're actually not very good at at doesn't help - further evidence of the decline of Serie A in CL. Milan aside.
Serie A lost its fourth CL seating for a reason, that reason is evident for the past 15 years. Whereby Milan was the only notable 'constant' from Italy. Even at EL (uefa cup) level, Italian teams never really ventured past the early knockouts in that same period.
Fundamental Perspective: On the upside, let us look at how the German teams fared over the course of the same period. How competitive were they in collecting European coefficient points? How long did it take? How did the WC2006 play a role in advancing the Bundesliga to its status these days? Think the answer to all these queries is simple, the German government invested in this sector directly and indirectly over the course of the past 15 years lets say.
Macroeconomic Perspective: It is also important to note Italy as a country has regressed significantly, to the extent that it rivals Spain, Greece, Ireland, and Portugal in the deficit its respective governments is running on. To this very day, Germany and to an extent the UK(or London in particular) has done better coming out of the recession of 2007-9 in comparison.
Is it a coincidence Italian football is where it is? The government needs to allocate funds to invest in a European Cup or World Cup. In 1990 the Italian gov't funded the WC and promoted the Italian game. It is not a spontaneous spark of when you spend money, but how. Italians surely, as proven historically, have the know-how, they just do not have a gov't as healthy as that of England or Germany to help 'promote' the domestic league.
And that is in a nutshell of what I believe is going on. Will Milan surprise? Well, Athletico Madrid did and that is enough of a confirmation to what we can aspire to become given the right circumstances.
Posted by: dst Oct 23 2014, 11:05 PM
...
Posted by: X-Offender Nov 25 2014, 10:46 PM
Roma-City after two weeks should be interesting.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 25 2014, 11:00 PM
Can't see Roma beating them. They needed City to lose today or at least draw.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Nov 26 2014, 01:36 AM
City are even more chokers than Roma in CL. I don't think they will win in Italy.
Posted by: acid911 Nov 26 2014, 02:13 AM
Regardless, it's going to be a cracker. I just hope it were Bayern in City's position. Even more of a cracker. I would still give it to Roma if they can bring their A game, but anything less and they can go bye bye.
Posted by: X-Offender Nov 26 2014, 09:46 AM
Chokers or not, they only lost 1-0 to Bayern in Munich in the last minute, and actually beat them at home. Roma overall conceded 9 goals against Bayern, only scoring once. I agree with Acid, it's going to be a cracker. Any result is possible, but I see City as favorites right now. They can pass if they draw 1-1 and above, always assuming that CSKA lose against Bayern. If CSKA draw in Munich, then any draw between City and Roma would get Roma through. That's what I read anyway.
Posted by: han2503 Nov 26 2014, 11:50 AM
Keep in mind that City won against Bayern only after Bayern had already gone through the group, had Bayern still needed to qualify it would most likely have been a totally different game
Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 26 2014, 04:58 PM
According to wiki, the tiebreakers suggest any draw would put Man City through as tiebreakers are first from the whole group, then from the matches between each other. Surely that's not right.
Posted by: han2503 Nov 26 2014, 05:18 PM
Fact is that Italy will most likely end up with only one them in the KO's, a terribly rubbish Juve at that who have been failing in this competition for decades
At this rate I can't see us keeping our 4th ranking for too much longer
Posted by: X-Offender Nov 26 2014, 06:38 PM
Gazzetta said that if all three teams end up with 6 points, Roma go through.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 26 2014, 06:40 PM
I would have thought that would be the case too. Seems weird wiki suggests Bayerns results matter in a 3 way tiebreak.
Posted by: X-Offender Nov 26 2014, 06:46 PM
Why would Roma pass, though? What's the rule?
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Nov 26 2014, 09:24 PM
I wish Roma would pass, but its like banging your head to a wall. Or a miracle. City are better equipped to go through with at least two goals.
Roma could surprise, however they are far to weak for CL heavyweights like Bayern or City.
Posted by: X-Offender Nov 26 2014, 10:18 PM
Watching Juve play is a delight. Not only for the fast and attractive football, but also because everyone runs like a damned and sacrifices himself for the team, showing an admirable altruistic spirit. Compare that to how we play, where everyone runs at the pace of a snail, and individualism reigns high, and you get a clear picture of how many worlds apart we are.
Posted by: Danny Nov 26 2014, 10:47 PM
And yet...Allegri's their manager. Just thought I'd throw that in there...
As of yet he has not destroyed them, in fact he's arguably improved them.
Posted by: X-Offender Nov 26 2014, 11:01 PM
As of yet he has not destroyed them, in fact he's arguably improved them.
Improved? Nah, Juve have been like this for the past two years. Like you said, he hasn't destroyed them, which is an achievement for Mr. Antifootball.
Posted by: han2503 Nov 27 2014, 01:41 PM
As of yet he has not destroyed them, in fact he's arguably improved them.
Juve are still playing the same way now as they did when Conte was there.
He hasn't improved them imo. They're top of the league as we all expected they would be given the quality they have compared to the other teams in the league and they're still terrible in Europe when faced with a mildly difficult opponent.
As x-off said, at least he didn't take them backwards, I wonder how he does long-term there if they start losing their best players.
Posted by: X-Offender Nov 27 2014, 01:51 PM
Even if the quality of the league was higher, Juve would still be first. They are really good. That midfield (Pirlo, Pogba, Marchisio and Vidal) is pure class, one of the best in Europe. Then they've got pretty decent defenders in Chiellini, Lichtsteiner and Bonucci (who has improved significantly over the last couple of years), as well a top striker in Tevez. There are very few things they lack. Perhaps a quality striker to pair with Tevez, but I think Morata has all the potential to fill that void.
I really hope they beat Atletico with a 2+ goal difference and top the group. The truth is I don't like them in general, but in Europe I'm always supporting Italian clubs. Even if I don't want to, something inside of me that makes me want to support them.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 27 2014, 02:07 PM
Yes, agreed. Inter being my exception sometimes.
Posted by: han2503 Nov 27 2014, 03:30 PM
I really hope they beat Atletico with a 2+ goal difference and top the group. The truth is I don't like them in general, but in Europe I'm always supporting Italian clubs. Even if I don't want to, something inside of me that makes me want to support them.
Which further makes the point, that it's hard for Allegri to really mess up with them as the quality of the league is that much inferior to them. Last season they were already running away with it during this period IIRC
Still, they're chokers in Europe and I don't think they'd really find it as easy if the league were actually competitive and the other big clubs had any actual quality. Right not their direct competition being Roma, who are also perennial chokers domestically as well speaks for itself
Posted by: Danny Nov 27 2014, 04:13 PM
Neil Lennon's Celtic. 3 SPL titles in a row, and year-on-year qualification to CL group stage.
Under their new manager Deila and no player losses, they took till the most recent match to finally go top on goal difference, and lost 6-1 on aggregrate to Legia Warsaw before being comically reinstated then losing their next match anyway.
A new manager can indeed ruin a well-established team and the SPL isn't exactly Serie A...
Posted by: han2503 Nov 27 2014, 04:27 PM
Under their new manager Deila and no player losses, they took till the most recent match to finally go top on goal difference, and lost 6-1 on aggregrate to Legia Warsaw before being comically reinstated then losing their next match anyway.
A new manager can indeed ruin a well-established team and the SPL isn't exactly Serie A...
Just like a great manager can make an average team look unstoppable (Conte/Simeone)
Listen, all scenraio's can apply in different specific situations.
But with Juve what we're seeing is basically the same thing we saw with Conte, Allegri has said so himself that he does not want to rock the boat (so to speak) and change things too much. But fact is, he has a team that is heads and shoulders above the rest of the league both in terms of quality and morale.
I've said from day 1 that if the Juve management don't sell their star players then I personally still see Juve sweeping all before them domestically no matter who's coaching them
Allegri's only real test at Juve imo is the CL, he needs to get them past the last 16 and have a good quarter final showing in order to improve on what Conte did, because domestically there really isn't much else to do considering he took over a record breaking team and the rest of the league is what it is
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 27 2014, 04:30 PM
I think you guys are going in circles.
Posted by: X-Offender Nov 27 2014, 05:06 PM
That's the leitmotif of this forum.
Posted by: han2503 Nov 27 2014, 05:52 PM
What's new?
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 27 2014, 05:57 PM
You're both right, which per se isn't new
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 10 2014, 10:31 PM
No one watching CL or?
Typical Roma display. Garcia playing with stupid tactical schemes and their loser mentality once again prevailing. Not good for Italy; second year in a row we got reduced to Juventus.
Posted by: han2503 Dec 10 2014, 10:55 PM
Typical Roma display. Garcia playing with stupid tactical schemes and their loser mentality once again prevailing. Not good for Italy; second year in a row we got reduced to Juventus.
Roma are plain chokers! That's why no matter how many people try to talk them up for the title I know for a fact that they won't really put up a challenge for the title. Juve will just mosey on to it without much trouble or fan fair
With regards to the CL, well, typical of Italian teams in the past few years really, and with only Juve there who unless are really lucky an get and easy draw, it will be another no-show for Italy in the QFs
At least we have some very strong teams in the EL and most of them should really mount a good challenge for it. The only way to try and gain ground on Germany is to do it how they did, through the UEFA Cup/EL
Posted by: Danny Dec 10 2014, 11:10 PM
Typical Roma display. Garcia playing with stupid tactical schemes and their loser mentality once again prevailing. Not good for Italy; second year in a row we got reduced to Juventus.
I was watching Zlatan.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 10 2014, 11:20 PM
Good for you. For all I know, Barcelona-PSG was a amusing match while I lost my nerves with those Roma chokers.
Agreed with you Han. But what especially disappointed me today was Rudy Garcia and his tactics. Rigid, leaving key players on the bench,...very poor match on his side.
Posted by: X-Offender Dec 10 2014, 11:25 PM
I have a Roma friend and he told me he wouldn't mind going out, cos he wants to win the scudetto. And I have to agree with him. Roma are just too green for Europe yet. By focusing solely on the league, I think they have a fair chance of winning the title.
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Dec 11 2014, 12:03 AM
Just goes to show the gulf in quality that separates Roma and City.
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Dec 11 2014, 12:03 AM
Just goes to show the gulf in quality that separates Roma and City.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 11 2014, 01:18 AM
But to be quite fair, today quality didn't decide actually and the difference wasn't as evident as one might suppose.
Posted by: Danny Dec 11 2014, 02:48 AM
You mean lack of one, right? City struggled V CSKA yet Roma destroyed them and got a pretty easy draw at the Etihad. City managed this qualification thanks to managing to beat both Bayern & Roma despite not being as good as either of them.
As X says, Roma are green round the ears re: Europe and UCL in particular, and City are absolutely horrendous given the resources they have.
I am no Roma fan but they're unlucky to have lost out to that City.
Posted by: han2503 Dec 11 2014, 08:58 AM
Agreed with you Han. But what especially disappointed me today was Rudy Garcia and his tactics. Rigid, leaving key players on the bench,...very poor match on his side.
I personally thought they played an overall good game and were the better side (who also had the better chances). But as usual, they choked when it mattered the most. City had what? 3 clear cut chances? They took 2 of them. Roma had 5 or 6 and took none
Meh, I don't think they have any realistic shot at winning it tbh. Yeah they'll push Juve right up till April or May, but at the end of the day, there's only one possible winner for this title imo.
Anyone saying that Roma can win it for me are mostly wishful thinkers and are trying to fool themselves into believing Serie A is more competitive than it really is.
Roma have some great players (midfielders) that I would kill to have on our team, but they're just not as good as Juve. Add in the choke factor and you have a recipe for failure
Did you even watch the game? Roma had just as many chances to win this as City did, probably even more, Roma had the upper hand during most of the game but choked when it mattered (as usual for them whether it's Serie A or the CL).
Roma were the better side against City in both their encounters
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 11 2014, 10:10 AM
But it's not just a matter of choking. Why didn't Strootman or De Rossi play? Roma were rapidly loosing the midfield battle, while Garcia insisted with the Nainggolan-Pjanić-Keita (who was too defensive) combination. He also insisted on Totti playing 70 minutes and came too late with the subs. This one goes (IMO) mostly on Garcia, just like when he lost to Bayern.
Posted by: han2503 Dec 11 2014, 11:58 AM
I don't really think they lost the midfield battle. As I said, they were the ones who created more chances and had the upper hand in the game for most of the time.
But yeah, I also agree that you just don't leave a player like De Rossi on the bench in such a big match, and has Strootman been playing regularly since returning from injury?
Posted by: X-Offender Dec 11 2014, 12:14 PM
Troll.
Anyone saying that Roma can win it for me are mostly wishful thinkers and are trying to fool themselves into believing Serie A is more competitive than it really is.
Roma have some great players (midfielders) that I would kill to have on our team, but they're just not as good as Juve. Add in the choke factor and you have a recipe for failure.
Nah, the league is different. They have all it takes to push for the title until the very end. I wouldn't be so sure of Juve winning it.
I agree about Totti. He was terrible last night. His old age couldn't let him cope with City's physical players and their constant pressuring. I was also boggled why De Rossi didn't play. He wasn't injured, was he?
As for Strootman, the guy hasn't started a game yet since his injury. Playing him last night would have been too risky.
Posted by: han2503 Dec 11 2014, 10:14 PM
We'll see, but I personally can't see them winning it, certainly not this season
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Dec 11 2014, 10:16 PM
Roma showed spirit and hunger, they did not give up. They were playing at home, it is only natural. Especially after that Bayern result. Had they not played like that there would have been more damage to the score.
It is definitely about quality, considering City have players of world class status and 'continuity', while Roma have a fallen Italian star in 'Totti' and a team that is relatively newly built.
Dude City are the reigning EPL champions, Roma are?
Posted by: acid911 Dec 11 2014, 10:23 PM
Playing in the best league there is?
At least in terms of tactics and tactical sense of the game.
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Dec 11 2014, 11:16 PM
At least in terms of tactics and tactical sense of the game.Is Serie A the best league? As far as rankings go, they aren't.
In terms of tactics and tactical sense? I believe football has evolved from the 90s. Italian teams are not as qualified as they once were in the 90s. Our coaches have migrated to Spain, England, France, Russia etc and are sharing all those traits we used to have exclusively at Serie A.
But that is just my opinion
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 12 2014, 12:24 AM
I know, but Roma were continually loosing the midfield game, and not to bring in some like De Rossi or Strootman was a big mistake IMO.
Posted by: Danny Dec 12 2014, 01:02 AM
At least in terms of tactics and tactical sense of the game.I'd love to agree but Serie A is miles off being the best league in any context.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 12 2014, 01:15 AM
Tactical sense? Which one is? Or are above Serie A?
Posted by: acid911 Dec 12 2014, 04:39 AM
Who cares about rankings, man.
Numbers. Fudged up numbers. I mean, if you ask some people they'd say that the Spanish league is the best, or they'll put up the German one higher up (among the top two). Which they really aren't. They may be more entertaining, or on the up overall.But it's been Serie A and then the EPL in terms of competitiveness and technique for quite some time. It's the modern game that has been skewed towards La Liga, and flash, so to say.
But as an honest, neutral fan, I'd never follow that one over the Italian one knowing just how loopy it is.Almost like a video game, where for the top two teams, it's just about not losing points, instead of winning them. Unless the Serie A and the EPL follows the same flashy route, which I hope they never will, both will be up there at the top. At least for me, and a lot of others. I'd rather watch football games, not money talking.
That's not to say they have their own problems, Serie A having much more pressing issues to fix. And maybe they will someday, but it's still a strong league, and in some aspects the strongest.
Hard to disagree, but that's always been the case, really.
Football is a global game, and in the future some other flashy league pops up, say in China, or football in the USA totally goes mainstream, the coaches and players will follow. I'm not saying the Italian teams are still the best, but they do provide a wholesome, tactical watch.The game has evolved from the 90s, but some things are still the same.
And I respect that.
Not that you're wrong, but there are many that watch and prefer watching the Italian league for the spectacle it provides. Many do at the expense of other leagues. Many of my friends in the UK watch it regularly. Besides, there still is hope that one day things will change. One can't forsake values.There's a reason why Spain couldn't beat Italy for 80 odd years, and Germany has yet to.
Well, they are in consistency.
As in most teams are at the same level, and that makes for some rather engrossing match ups. But anyway, at least Serie A has the pace thing going for it. The steady flow of the game sets it apart from all other leagues, you just kick back for the 90 minutes, grab something to eat and relax.I guess, we should not equate our performances with the league, because AC Milan as a club has been run pretty bad these past few years. The Italian game, though, is still entertaining. Mid table teams put up a good show, and even those below can spring up surprises rather regularly.
Can you say that it's because things are bad in terms of finances and all that? Yeah. But there's also that element of tactics, which means fewer 5-0 scores or even the 1-0 and defend we see in EPL ever so often.
It's just this value that sets it apart, and endears it, at least to me. You too, I'm sure, and many other members here.Serie A is not mainstream, I'll give you that. It's not been since the rise of the English league since 2000s.
None, in my opinion.
Maybe there is some other league in some far off country that emphasis more on tactics and technique, but never gets the focus in terms of media, and that I don't know of, but if you're talking about core concepts of the game, I am yet to see any that matches the Italian league.
Posted by: Danny Dec 12 2014, 04:37 PM
I don't think any league is especially good tactically. Football these days mostly relies on individuals being brilliant or individuals making errors.
The only tactical master of the game who still gets it right more than wrong is Mourinho. But EPL is far from being sharp tactically. LVG can't make head or tails of Man Utd, and while Pep is starting to get it right with Bayern, outside them Germany is actually a very open and blood and thunder league.
Serie A was the master in the Catenaccio days, but nowadays it's just football.
I remember when a team getting a Serie A in European competition filled them with fear because how good they were at being clinical and how hard they were to score against - now they barely blink and practically actively want a Serie A side.
Look at how Roma fared V Bayern. Embarrassing. Juve also only got through by the skin of their teeth.
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Feb 24 2015, 07:52 AM
Juventus vs BVB 
Going to be a tough one, but just like Allegri's Milan gave Barca a run for their money .. Hope Allegri's Juve does more and does not concede in this fixture.
Italian football need Juventus to push hard in Europe.
Posted by: X-Offender Feb 24 2015, 09:47 AM
It's going to be interesting. Looking forward to it.
Posted by: han2503 Feb 24 2015, 01:07 PM
BVB this season are hardly the Barca we faced under Allegri
Juve in reality should be able to win. Dortmund have been awful this season in the league, and Juve have a pretty great squad. The fact that they are big time chokers in Europe does not give me confidence for Italy's chances in Europe
Posted by: X-Offender Feb 24 2015, 01:40 PM
Dortmund are in a good moment at the moment, though...
Posted by: Danny Feb 24 2015, 02:12 PM
They've also been a much different animal in the UCL compared with the Bundesliga.
C'mon BVB.
Posted by: han2503 Feb 24 2015, 04:21 PM
But for me, Juve are still the stronger team and on paper they should be okay over the 2 games. But history has shown that they tend to struggle needlessly in Europe, especially away from home, and Allegri so far hasn't shown that he could change that going by the way they played their group
Posted by: Danny Feb 24 2015, 04:51 PM
On paper Dortmund are superior. On the CL pitch they are too.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Feb 24 2015, 06:45 PM
On paper? How so?
Posted by: X-Offender Feb 24 2015, 07:02 PM
Juve have a monster of a midfield. Granted, Vidal isn't exactly a trequartista, but he's still a quality midfielder. Defensively they're far better than Dortmund. So yeah, I don't see how on paper Dortmund are superior.
Posted by: han2503 Feb 24 2015, 09:24 PM
I can't see how that's the case...
Juve's midfield is amazing, their attack not too shabby and a defensive line that is generally very solid.
Dortmund have some great players as well, but for me, Juve just trump them in some areas
On a side note, Reus is such an amazing player to watch, I wonder where he'll be playing next season...
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Feb 24 2015, 09:35 PM
Chiellini brainfart. Typically Juventus.
Posted by: Danny Feb 24 2015, 09:44 PM
Let's see, world-cup winning players all over their pitch including several player to recently play CL finals and get to advanced stages.
Dortmund's weakness is their strangely disorganised defence, elsewhere they're fantastic.
And clearly the better team tonight, Juve should not be in the lead.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Feb 24 2015, 09:51 PM
Dortmund's weakness is their strangely disorganised defence, elsewhere they're fantastic.
And clearly the better team tonight, Juve should not be in the lead.
Dortmund has 5 WC winning players. Out of the 5, Weidenfeller, Durm and Ginter played little to nothing. Juventus has 3 WC winners, Pirlo, Barzagli and Buffon. So what? I think they're pretty even teams.
Posted by: X-Offender Feb 24 2015, 10:41 PM
2-1
Great 70 minutes from Juve. They started strongly, but Chiellini's brainfart sent them on a blackout. Morata's goal completely revitalized them and in all honesty they should have scored at least once more. Deserved win.
Posted by: Danny Feb 24 2015, 11:27 PM
Cheers.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Feb 25 2015, 01:17 AM
Dortmund looked a shadow of the side that made the CL final
Posted by: Danny Feb 25 2015, 01:38 AM
The one that qualified for the last 16 with around the same number of points they did this time?
And that drew 2-2 in the first leg of their last 16 tie with the mighty Donestk?
The only good team they had to beat to get to the final was Real and even then only just.
Point they've been really good in the UCL this season, but people are dismissing them based on their domestic form.
I thought they played well tonight and bossed large spells of the match.
Posted by: X-Offender Feb 25 2015, 11:06 AM
They bossed from 18' till 42', then nothing. Juve were far better.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Feb 25 2015, 11:46 AM
Yeah Juve were the better side, even though their system should've been one Dortmund found comfortable to play against. I don't think they have a clue how to defend, both goals were so simple, should've had more too.
Posted by: Danny Feb 25 2015, 12:18 PM
Defence is Dortmund's big weakness. Like ours.
Best teams either dominate the ball so their weak defence doesn't get exposed (Real, Barca), or they build their team around a brilliant defence (Atleti, Chelsea)
Posted by: X-Offender Feb 25 2015, 01:37 PM
Three notes I wanted to make about Juve:
Bonucci has evolved into a very, very reliable defender. I always thought he'd stay a choker after they signed him, his first couple of seasons at Juve were a nightmare, but the guy has truly stepped up his game. I even rate him higher than Chiellini now.
Juve won't suffer Pirlo's blow. Marchisio is fantastic as anchor. Such an overall complete player, can play anywhere and always delivers.
Morata will become awesome. For a pure striker, he has all it takes to shine.
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 10 2015, 11:41 PM
Carlo almost doing another Deportivo/Liverpool tonight...
Posted by: kurtsimonw Mar 11 2015, 01:33 PM
His range of passing is out of this World for a centre back, something you just don't see in the modern game very often.
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 11 2015, 09:19 PM
Harsh red.
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 11 2015, 09:29 PM
This ref is a joke. That was a clear penalty on Costa.
Posted by: han2503 Mar 11 2015, 09:34 PM
Obviously trying to make up for the awful decision to send Ibra off
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 11 2015, 10:02 PM
What a miss!
Posted by: han2503 Mar 11 2015, 10:09 PM
Verratti is so good though, the fact that we could have signed him for as little as 12m just a few years ago makes me want to weep like a little girl
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 11 2015, 10:15 PM
PSG owning Chelsea at Stamford with 10 men.
Posted by: han2503 Mar 11 2015, 10:18 PM
Too bad they can't seem to grab that goal. I'm really rooting for them, but it seems like it won't happen for them today
Chelsea totally riding their luck aside from that penalty decision, they've been mostly MIA, especially in this 2nd half
Posted by: han2503 Mar 11 2015, 10:23 PM
Posted by: han2503 Mar 11 2015, 10:28 PM
LOL Luiz equalises
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 11 2015, 10:30 PM
What a game!
Posted by: han2503 Mar 11 2015, 10:34 PM
Costa is a total ****
Posted by: kurtsimonw Mar 11 2015, 10:48 PM
Oh Thiago...
Posted by: han2503 Mar 11 2015, 10:48 PM
He had no reason to raise his hand like that
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 11 2015, 10:49 PM
WTF was Silva thinking there? Game over.
Posted by: han2503 Mar 11 2015, 11:07 PM
SILVA
Posted by: kurtsimonw Mar 11 2015, 11:07 PM
THIAGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!
Posted by: han2503 Mar 11 2015, 11:08 PM
lol, Terry and Cahill marking each other while Silva is alone behind them. Comical
Posted by: Danny Mar 11 2015, 11:17 PM
Really fucking enjoyed that!
Posted by: han2503 Mar 11 2015, 11:18 PM
Great game
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 11 2015, 11:18 PM
Holy crap, I completely forgot that PSG could pass with 2-2, so I turned it off after Hazard's goal. Go Thiago! 
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 11 2015, 11:19 PM
Mourinho did a "Inzaghi" with Zouma.
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 11 2015, 11:22 PM
This has got to be the lamest way to go out for Chelsea. Your opponent loses (unfairly) their best player, you have 90 minutes with one more man, at home, go ahead twice, yet get kicked by a heroic PSG. Kudos to them, really.
Posted by: han2503 Mar 11 2015, 11:23 PM
@ Fillipo, Mourinho was entitled to make that decision because he was a few minutes away from going through against a top team
Not barely clinging on to a 1 goal lead against Serie A minnows.
Did it pay off? No this time it didn't. But Zouma came on and was actually good. He didn't bring on Bocchetti to disrupt what was already a well functioning duo at the back
Chelsea conceded off of 2 corners, Zouma had nothing to do with either goal
Posted by: han2503 Mar 11 2015, 11:24 PM
Mourinho will now make it a point to mention the penalty that was not given (unfairly, I have to admit, but PSG had their own bad decisions to deal with, one effected their entire game plan)
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 11 2015, 11:25 PM
Mourinho can say whatever he wants, no-one can deny that PSG deserved to pass tonight.
EDIT: Especially when you consider both legs.
Posted by: han2503 Mar 11 2015, 11:33 PM
EDIT: Especially when you consider both legs.
Totally agree with that. Thought Matuidi, Verratti, Pastore, Cavani and Thiago were just amazing (Aside from that small brain fart from Thiago).
Unsurprisingly, 4 of which are players PSG took off Serie A clubs. No wonder this league has gone to the shitter in recent years
Posted by: Danny Mar 11 2015, 11:38 PM
Silva, after a fairly forgettable 12 months, is back with a bang.
On that form the world's best defender bar none.
Posted by: han2503 Mar 11 2015, 11:41 PM
On that form the world's best defender bar none.
Too true
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 11 2015, 11:45 PM
Unsurprisingly, 4 of which are players PSG took off Serie A clubs. No wonder this league has gone to the shitter in recent years
I also thought Thiago Motta was surprisingly good. I've never rated him, but tonight he was very organized and barely made any mistakes.
There have been rumors of us getting him as De Jong's replacements. After tonight's performance, I wouldn't mind that at all.
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 12 2015, 12:26 AM
Mourinho admitting that PSG deserved to pass.
Posted by: Danny Mar 12 2015, 01:49 AM
I got the feeling Luiz rather savoured his goal tonight too...
Posted by: kurtsimonw Mar 12 2015, 02:27 AM
Has his moments, horrific defender though.
PSG have so much talent it's sickening. Basically raided Serie A for all of my favourite players!
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 12 2015, 02:33 AM
@ Fillipo, Mourinho was entitled to make that decision because he was a few minutes away from going through against a top team
Not barely clinging on to a 1 goal lead against Serie A minnows.
Did it pay off? No this time it didn't. But Zouma came on and was actually good. He didn't bring on Bocchetti to disrupt what was already a well functioning duo at the back
Chelsea conceded off of 2 corners, Zouma had nothing to do with either goal
Haha, really?
No, it was a mistake. You don't put in an extra defender in a home match against a team who's down one man. Zouma wasn't at fault for the goal (Bochetti wasn't as well), but I wouldn't say he played well. A couple of times he looked shaky and made unnecessary panic moves.
Sure, this is the CL, it's nothing like Serie A. But with and extra midfielder instead of Zouma who contributed to nothing, he could have put in an extra midfielder and shut off PSG. I think it's more then enough for a parallel.
Posted by: han2503 Mar 12 2015, 10:10 AM
There have been rumors of us getting him as De Jong's replacements. After tonight's performance, I wouldn't mind that at all.
Nope, still wouldn't want him anywhere near Milan
You have to look at the context. At PSG he's surrounded by uber talented players, all he has to do is the defensive work and some organization. With us it's a completely different situation and he'd look the average player he really is.
Any time I watched him with Italy I was absolutely put off by him and one decent performance does not change that.
No, it was a mistake. You don't put in an extra defender in a home match against a team who's down one man. Zouma wasn't at fault for the goal (Bochetti wasn't as well), but I wouldn't say he played well. A couple of times he looked shaky and made unnecessary panic moves.
Sure, this is the CL, it's nothing like Serie A. But with and extra midfielder instead of Zouma who contributed to nothing, he could have put in an extra midfielder and shut off PSG. I think it's more then enough for a parallel.
Well, as I also said, it obviously was a mistake since Chelsea were KO's in the end. And yeah, I agree that a midfielder would have been the smarter decision.
But comparing that to what Pippo did? For me what Pippo did is just a completely new low. Yes it was essentially the same thing but the scenarios are vastly different. And Bocchetti wasn't at fault for the goal? Look at it again. He and Mexes essentially got in each other's way because Pippo lumped him in there with no clear instructions for either him or the other defenders.
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 12 2015, 10:50 AM
Aye, the sheer quality of their roster is incredible. They lack a world class anchor, but anywhere else they are stuffed with massive talent. Pastore last night was sublime.
You have to look at the context. At PSG he's surrounded by uber talented players, all he has to do is the defensive work and some organization. With us it's a completely different situation and he'd look the average player he really is.
Any time I watched him with Italy I was absolutely put off by him and one decent performance does not change that.
I did look at the context. He was always spot on in every intervention, never misplaced a pass and looked very confident. Like I said, I've never rated him, but last night he was very good, and not just because PSG played well.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Mar 12 2015, 03:15 PM
No, it was a mistake. You don't put in an extra defender in a home match against a team who's down one man. Zouma wasn't at fault for the goal (Bochetti wasn't as well), but I wouldn't say he played well. A couple of times he looked shaky and made unnecessary panic moves.
Sure, this is the CL, it's nothing like Serie A. But with and extra midfielder instead of Zouma who contributed to nothing, he could have put in an extra midfielder and shut off PSG. I think it's more then enough for a parallel.
I agree with your logic, but I do think you are wrong.
Zouma played his last game for Chelsea, in a Cup Final no less, as a midfielder. He was bought on as a midfielder as a like for like with Matic (for Zouma's better aerial ability).
More indication that he's seen as a DM these days is the rest of the Chelsea bench - Cech, Luis, Willian, Drogba, Remy, Cuadrado. He was the only midfielder on the bench.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 12 2015, 03:22 PM
Maybe. I admit, I wasn't following Zouma in a regular rhythm to know such a thing. But in the end, Zouma ended up in defense and didn't work as a DM, right?
Posted by: kurtsimonw Mar 12 2015, 04:28 PM
It didn't work, I don't think anyone would disagree with that.
In the end, I'm pleased that a refereeing error didn't overshadow the tie. The best team went through. I'd love PSG to win it, I like so many of their players. I really want Ibra to get a CL title.
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 12 2015, 04:52 PM
Drogba played in defense as well. All Chelsea players were trying to defend the result. Not only they played a bad game, but they also displayed a very defeatist attitude.
Me too.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 12 2015, 06:04 PM
Yeah, but that's just not gonna happen. Blanc hasn't got it in him and I don't trust Ibra as well.
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 12 2015, 09:07 PM
There's always a first time for everything.
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 12 2015, 09:13 PM
Now Napoli concede.
Wow, Kevin Kuranyi. This guy still playing?
Posted by: han2503 Mar 18 2015, 09:19 PM
No one watching tonight?
Well that's City also out. When was the last time that there were no English clubs in the quarter finals?
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 18 2015, 09:37 PM
Two years ago, han 
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 18 2015, 09:40 PM
Watching Juve.
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Mar 18 2015, 09:51 PM
Juve has this game locked up, just hope Dortmond don't give them the '7 minutes of blackout' aka istanbul
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 18 2015, 09:56 PM
The sideline refs have their heads up their arses tonight in Dortmund-Juve.
Posted by: han2503 Mar 18 2015, 10:24 PM
Really?
Was that when Man U and Chelsea both ended up in the EL?
How's that Juve game going x-off?
Thought they were the better team in Italy. Dortmund looked nothing like the side of the last 3 or so years
Man City doing everything to shoot themselves in the foot while Barca have repeatedly shot at Heart's chest
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 18 2015, 10:26 PM
Juve having a stroll. Tevez has been a beast tonight.
Posted by: han2503 Mar 18 2015, 10:30 PM
Good to hear.
Lol, the Barca game is just becoming ridiculous now. I think they've hit the post about 5 times and shot the ball straight at Heart about 20+ times now
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 18 2015, 10:33 PM
And people used to advocate a no-Tevez stance here. If only we signed him...
Posted by: han2503 Mar 18 2015, 10:36 PM
Yep, I'm ashamed to admit that I was one of the few who was on the fence about it because I was still hopeful about Pato.
Of course I still wanted him but at that time I didn't think that it should have been an either-or situation between him and Pato. Just goes to show... Hindsight and all that jazz...
Can't believe we were actually a few hours away from signing him but he went to Juve and completely elevated them as a team
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 18 2015, 10:46 PM
Barça
Madrid
Atletico
Monaco
PSG
Juve
Bayern
Porto
Interesting line-up, Monaco clearly being the underdog.
Posted by: han2503 Mar 18 2015, 10:50 PM
Madrid
Atletico
Monaco
PSG
Juve
Bayern
Porto
Interesting line-up, Monaco clearly being the underdog.
Interesting to see how the leagues are represented this year, once again, it's still strange not seeing an English side there
Hopefully Juve get a nice draw since the EL teams from Italy seem to have once again managed to f@ck up what should have been a solid year for Italy
So the draws are on Friday?
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 18 2015, 10:54 PM
Yeah.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 18 2015, 11:23 PM
Was that when Man U and Chelsea both ended up in the EL?
How's that Juve game going x-off?
Thought they were the better team in Italy. Dortmund looked nothing like the side of the last 3 or so years
Man City doing everything to shoot themselves in the foot while Barca have repeatedly shot at Heart's chest
No. ManU and Chelsea never ended up in the EL in the same season. It was the year when ManU got eliminated by Real while Arsenal lost yet another tie against Bayern. Bayern being the winner that year.
Posted by: Danny Mar 19 2015, 12:07 AM
If Allegri takes Juve past the quarters then he's done better on his first shot than Conte ever did. In three attempts.
Think about that! Already equalled him.
Juve under were European duds, but have to say Allegri has elevated them. Borussia, despite their woeful domestic form till recently, were a different team in the UCL.
Credit where it's due, Juve have done remarkably well under Allegri.
Someone even tweeted he was the most underrated coach in Europe.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 19 2015, 12:13 AM
You do understand that it's harder to start building something then adding up? I mean Conte almost started from scratch. Allegri got a winning team already formed and ready handed to him. Yes, he's doing a good job right now, but you've gotta keep that on your mind.
Posted by: han2503 Mar 19 2015, 12:14 AM
Think about that! Already equalled him.
Juve under were European duds, but have to say Allegri has elevated them. Borussia, despite their woeful domestic form till recently, were a different team in the UCL.
Credit where it's due, Juve have done remarkably well under Allegri.
Someone even tweeted he was the most underrated coach in Europe.
Conte also took them to the quarters on his first shot at the CL Danny
And really, let's not get into it about Allegri because you're always the first one to complain how it's always about him
Most underrated coach in Europe?
Posted by: han2503 Mar 19 2015, 12:14 AM
This!
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 19 2015, 12:33 AM
Guys, let's not start talking about Allegri again please... We promised we wouldn't.
Posted by: Danny Mar 19 2015, 02:07 AM
*holds hands up*
My fault.
Posted by: X-Offender Mar 20 2015, 12:15 PM
PSG-Barça
Real-Atletico
Porto-Bayern
Juve-Monaco
Great draw for Juve, they have to make the semis. Too bad Pogba will be out for two months, but at least they'll have Pirlo back.
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