[han2503]

Hummels had a poor final tbh. Got exposed quite frequently first half for pace till the game settled.

Agree on James, Robben and Mascherano but honestly wouldn't include Hummels or Neymar.

My other two would be Suarez (the two matches he played Uruguay were world beaters - I firmly believe him to be the world's best now), and a toss up between Lahm and Van Persie.

Still I think Hummels was probably the best CB in the tournament, I didn't know he had issues throughout the tournament as Fillipo said, which in my eyes make his performances even more special now that I know he was carrying an injury. I know the defending was absolutely awful in this tournament and it's not that hard to be the best out of a bad bunch, but still, in terms of defenders he was the most eye catching imo.

I think Neymar overall was much better than RvP who was pretty much absent throughout the KOs and really didn't add much to his side. Neymar basically dragged Brazil the semi-finals, it's not really his fault that he had his back broken and couldn't carry on. But up until that point, I think he was brilliant (and I'm someone who just a few months ago thought he was all tricks and no substance)

Oh, and about Messi. So you really think Messi deserved the Golden Ball? Was he the MvP of this tournament?

Personally, I would have picked Robben. If not him then Thomas Müller, who won the cup, had 5 goals (group stage + KO) and 3 assists. Messi's stats don't impress me as much.

But it's not always about the stats. And IMO we're back to Robben. If you ask me, he was even more decisive for Holland the Messi for Argentina. More dangerous and omnipresent.

Agreed on Robben.

Muller, I'm personally not a fan, I don't really like his style, sure he's efficient but, meh.

[Jack Sparrow]

Muller has a really good touch married to some great game awareness. He is a definite champion material to me. Would happily have him in Milan and would even more happily trade Balotelli for him.

Also props to Schweinsteiger. For me he has been the best player in the KOs amongst all the teams. Gladiatorial at times, and magical at others.

Ok..so my two cents on the Golden Ball. It should have gone to Robben. But like Pana said, he didn't reach the final. That is a pre-requisite to win the Golden Ball.

So that only left Messi and Lahm. Muller has been spectacular but mostly reaping the benefits of a well worked plan. Mascherano really came into his own only in the last two or three games. He's been very average before that. Lahm has been crucial but has almost no stats to back his importance to the team. Which left Messi alone as a pick. He has been crucial to drag Argentina to the knockouts. And let's be honest, every team has had to work twice as hard to stop him. It was their good fortune that considering the form of Argentina's attackers, Messi was their only threat to deal with. Imagine if one more player in the mould of Riquelme or Batistuta had been present in this squad?! This would have been Messi's world cup plain and simple. He was in good touch and working hard for the team.

So finally. Yes. I understand why Messi got the golden ball, but I don't agree with it.

[Fillipo Simone]

I don't think the final argument works. Looking back, I see Forlan and Schillaci who did not play the final, yet won the award.

[Fillipo Simone]

Oh, and I was also a bit surprised to see the Young player award go to Pogba and Fair play award to Colombia.

[han2503]

Oh, and I was also a bit surprised to see the Young player award go to Pogba and Fair play award to Colombia.

Agreed about Pogba, underwhelming considering what he does on a weekly basis at Juve.


They should have given the fair play thing to Uruguay (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[dst]

Mascherano's wasn't either. He was Argentina's MVP, not Messi.

That was your point, not mine.

Oh, and about Messi. So you really think Messi deserved the Golden Ball? Was he the MvP of this tournament?

Personally, I would have picked Robben. If not him then Thomas Müller, who won the cup, had 5 goals (group stage + KO) and 3 assists. Messi's stats don't impress me as much.

But it's not always about the stats. And IMO we're back to Robben. If you ask me, he was even more decisive for Holland the Messi for Argentina. More dangerous and omnipresent.

I'm not saying Messi should have been the GB winner, I just don't understand those who so strongly claim he should not, and I'm making a point why he was.

To me, choking is when you're someone who is rated highly and regularly fail to deliver in important games. Argentina have failed to win anything since 1993, they've reached the latter stages in both the CA and WC a number of times - that's choking.

Germany have reached a bunch of latter stages too, had won nothing since 1996, that means they've been chokers since then. Obviously with Bayern's CL win and Germany's WC win that tag goes.

Messi is considered to be one of the best players. Before the World Cup he'd only scored in 2 competition in his career. He also, again, failed to score in the KO stages. He choked. To put it into perspective, Ronaldo has now scored in 6 straight tournaments. To me when you score 40/50 a season, then barely score goals in a major competition, and 0 in KO stages, that's choking.

What's your definition of choking if it's not this?

I don't remember Germany been the favorites to win previous tournaments, people always talk about how they always do well "despite whatever".

Argentina were never favorites to win either.

And more importantly Argentina are not now chokers and Germany non-chokers just because of a simple kick the ball. Just because Goetze is a better sub than Palacio does not mean a whole team is or is not a team of chokers. A single goal does not make the team that scored winners and the team that lost losers (mentally not practically). This is again the 'you're first or you're nothing' mentality which I couldn't disagree more with.

Why are we only counting Messi's (or Cristiano's) goals and determining his worth merely by that? If it's that simple why is there even a debate as to who is the best player? It should be the guy the scores the most goals. Well, no it's not. For starters, this season, also with Barcelona, Messi has not been playing as an advanced role as he used to. Regardless of that, every footballer does so much more than simply put up a number on a box score.

[kurtsimonw]

Argentina were never favorites to win either.

Sorry, but this is rubbish. Argentina play in a region where they are a top dog. The other major nation in that region doesn't take their regional competition seriously. Brazil took an U23 team to the Copa.

If you seriously feel like they're not a top 2 favourite to win the Copa, every single time, then you're deluded.7

Argentina and Germany, pretty much all the time, are top 4/5 favourite in every tournament they enter.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Jul 15 2014, 05:40 PM

[dst]

Sorry, but this is rubbish. Argentina play in a region where they are a top dog. The other major nation in that region doesn't take their regional competition seriously. Brazil took an U23 team to the Copa.

If you seriously feel like they're not a top 2 favourite to win the Copa, every single time, then you're deluded.7

Argentina and Germany, pretty much all the time, are top 4/5 favourite in every tournament they enter.

I was talking about the WC. I have no idea what's going on at the Copa as I've never once watched it.

Top 4/5 favorite means nothing. There are not enough good teams, in my view frankly, there are none. Belgium was top 5 this year...

[kurtsimonw]

Top 4/5 favorite means nothing. There are not enough good teams, in my view frankly, there are none. Belgium was top 5 this year...

So surely that's even more reason Argentina/Germany should've won more in the past few decades.

[dst]

So surely that's even more reason Argentina/Germany should've won more in the past few decades.

No, my point was, it's always open because there are no good teams and it's difficult for the same reason because even theoretically lower level teams can challenge anyone like Costa Rica leading the match against Holland to a PS. In my view, you can't choke if you're not distinctly better than someone. And even then losing doesn't mean you choked because anything can happen (to some extent). I mean, it's the reason why we watch sports, if we knew the outcome we wouldn't bother.

[kurtsimonw]

No, my point was, it's always open because there are no good teams and it's difficult for the same reason because even theoretically lower level teams can challenge anyone like Costa Rica leading the match against Holland to a PS. In my view, you can't choke if you're not distinctly better than someone. And even then losing doesn't mean you choked because anything can happen (to some extent). I mean, it's the reason why we watch sports, if we knew the outcome we wouldn't bother.

I think Argentina are clearly better than the likes of Costa Rica. they were an easy top 4 team, without any doubt.

[dst]

I think Argentina are clearly better than the likes of Costa Rica. they were an easy top 4 team, without any doubt.

On paper they are. Argentina were not eliminated by CR anyway. My point is, how are the Argentinians chokers for losing to what most people thought was a better team? Even if Argentina was slightly better I still would not call them chokers. There has to be an obvious quality gap between the two teams in my view.

[Rossoneri7]

Brazilian press have disclosed that after Germany won the WC, and after the party ended, Angela Merkel's government donated the prize money of 35M dollars to the Brazilian govt to build infrastructure for the poor the work as well as donated to the Brazilian labor party to support the Brazilian economy. This, a first for any nation participating (or won) the WC and the German's comment: "we did not come here to take money, we came here to win..".


The above is a translation from our local paper here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

[han2503]

Brazilian press have disclosed that after Germany won the WC, and after the party ended, Angela Merkel's government donated the prize money of 35M dollars to the Brazilian govt to build infrastructure for the poor the work as well as donated to the Brazilian labor party to support the Brazilian economy. This, a first for any nation participating (or won) the WC and the German's comment: "we did not come here to take money, we came here to win..".


The above is a translation from our local paper here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/king.gif)

That's great of them. Not that the German economy really needed the money, while Brazil are in the situation they're in, mostly of their own doing. Hopefully that money is really spent on where it's needed

[kurtsimonw]

It's obviously a kind act. But let's be honest, we're talking of countries here. 35m to Germany is nothing, 35m to Brazil is nothing.