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> 2015 Summer transfers

 
Fillipo Simone
post Feb 14 2015, 06:29 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Feb 13 2015, 10:44 PM) *
Let's go back to what I wrote previously. We have 31 players, currently. Serie A from next season does not allow a roster that exceeds 25 players. In this context, I think we should have:

3 GKs
4-5 CBs
3 FBs (one of which can play both sides, i.e. MDS)
5-6 DMs/CMs
4-5 AMs/wingers
2 CFs

That's 22-24 players. We have to get rid of a lot of dead weight this summer, and that's going to be a challenge considering our excess baggage in addition to the various loan spells we have circulating here and there.

In terms of goalies I think we're fit.

In terms of CBs, the only one I would keep without a doubt is Alex (and the guy will be 33). Everyone else is a question mark.

In terms of mids, we have to do everything in our power to keep De Jong. The guy is crucial for us. You can't find someone as good as him for his role nowadays without spending +15 million. The others that need to be confirmed are Poli and Bonaventura. Montolivo I don't give two sh*ts about, but he's the team captain and I can't see us parting ways at this point. If he accepts a substitute role I wouldn't mind. MVG will return to Chelsea so let's forget about him. The others (Essien, Muntari, even Honda) I don't want them near this team.

We agree mostly. But Danny has a point, 3 FBs has absolutely no sense. Maybe if the 5th CB is Bonera, who can cover both flanks. But we definitively need 4 FBs. I'd also like if Milan would drop the winger system and build on our previous tactical formations. None of the mentioned players is truly a good winger bar Cerci maybe.

We'll be keeping Honda for the sake of our Asian business.

QUOTE (Danny @ Feb 14 2015, 04:45 AM) *
Our first choice is currently horrendous. Antonelli impressed me v Juve, in the way Bocchetti did not v Parma.

Two deputies, both given a chance - and one did far better than the other, while the senior first choice is wildly out of form. Remember I whined about Armero being given a chance in the face of MDS being so poor? Well he too turned out awful, but I stand entirely by my desire to see someone else (whoever that was) given a chance. Just so happens we now have Antonelli who's managed to impress us all to a degree (more than MDS has this season) on his sole appearance so given the start, why change it?

If Antonelli has a shocker v Empoli, which I doubt, then we really are in the crapper because then all of Bocchetti, Armero, and Antonelli will be in poor form while MDS is miles away from being fit.

My God are you fast too judge. One game means nothing. As Han said, there's probably a reason why Antonelli got shipped off years earlier while Milan didn't have a solid LB as well (ever since Maldini/Serginho).

As for MDS, he's very young. He needs time and patience to become a good performer. Look at Abate; most of us criticized him for years, but he turned out into one of our best performers: how? By sheer determination and playing time. We have one of the best fullbacks in history with Tasso, I'm positive he'll do his thing and help MDS develop. We've gotta give MDS more time and space.

And it's not like there's a line of good LB's waiting. Look at the broader situation. Most clubs hold on to routine's and veterans, and only rare teams have someone fresh, young and already great. And we really don't need another Mesbah, Constant or Armero.
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X-Offender
post Feb 14 2015, 08:12 PM
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I'd like to think of the 4 FB as someone from the CBs who can cover that position in cases of emergencies, like Rami or Bonera.
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Danny
post Feb 14 2015, 09:14 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Feb 14 2015, 05:29 PM) *
My God are you fast too judge.


Yes I am.

QUOTE
One game means nothing.


Give me an example of a really bad debut which got turned around the player ended up great.

While you're at it, give me an example of a brilliant debut but the player ended up a shambles.

QUOTE
As Han said, there's probably a reason why Antonelli got shipped off years earlier while Milan didn't have a solid LB as well (ever since Maldini/Serginho).


Guess we're glad guys like Tomasson, KJH, and Gourcuff weren't given a chance here either then.

QUOTE
As for MDS, he's very young. He needs time and patience to become a good performer. Look at Abate; most of us criticized him for years,


Only the short-sighted ones. I never did.

QUOTE
but he turned out into one of our best performers: how?


Because he always was. He just matured and eventually fans learned of his value.

QUOTE
By sheer determination and playing time. We have one of the best fullbacks in history with Tasso, I'm positive he'll do his thing and help MDS develop. We've gotta give MDS more time and space.


I didn't say we shouldn't? I just said, pound for pound, right now Antonelli is our best option at LB and worth giving a chance to.

Where you saw 'let's give up on MDS completely' I'm less sure.

QUOTE
And it's not like there's a line of good LB's waiting. Look at the broader situation. Most clubs hold on to routine's and veterans, and only rare teams have someone fresh, young and already great. And we really don't need another Mesbah, Constant or Armero.


No, but we do need a performer right now in as many slots as possible. Fact is MDS, injury notwithstanding, isn't in form and hasn't been for a long long time. You can't just keep selecting a player when his poor form will cost you goals.
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han2503
post Feb 14 2015, 10:59 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Feb 14 2015, 09:14 PM) *
While you're at it, give me an example of a brilliant debut but the player ended up a shambles.

Yoann Gourcuff
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han2503
post Feb 14 2015, 11:02 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Feb 13 2015, 08:44 PM) *
Let's go back to what I wrote previously. We have 31 players, currently. Serie A from next season does not allow a roster that exceeds 25 players. In this context, I think we should have:

3 GKs
4-5 CBs
3 FBs (one of which can play both sides, i.e. MDS)
5-6 DMs/CMs
4-5 AMs/wingers
2 CFs

That's 22-24 players. We have to get rid of a lot of dead weight this summer, and that's going to be a challenge considering our excess baggage in addition to the various loan spells we have circulating here and there.

In terms of goalies I think we're fit.

In terms of CBs, the only one I would keep without a doubt is Alex (and the guy will be 33). Everyone else is a question mark.

In terms of mids, we have to do everything in our power to keep De Jong. The guy is crucial for us. You can't find someone as good as him for his role nowadays without spending +15 million. The others that need to be confirmed are Poli and Bonaventura. Montolivo I don't give two sh*ts about, but he's the team captain and I can't see us parting ways at this point. If he accepts a substitute role I wouldn't mind. MVG will return to Chelsea so let's forget about him. The others (Essien, Muntari, even Honda) I don't want them near this team.

In terms of AMs/wingers, Menez, Suso, Cerci, El Shaaraway and Mastour are good enough. You can throw Bona in there as well since he's a jolly and can play anywhere.

Destro and someone else for sub CF.

What we truly need are a top quality CB and especially a top quality CM. I would die for Witsel, he'd be beyond perfect. We need to loosen our string a bit this summer and make these signings, otherwise we're looking at another mediocre season.

Oh, and obviously we need a capable coach. That's out of the question.

Totally agree with this x-off

Abate, also being another crucial name that we must confirm next season, but it seems like the management is in no rush to renew either his or De Jong's contracts
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han2503
post Feb 14 2015, 11:06 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Feb 14 2015, 02:45 AM) *
Our first choice is currently horrendous. Antonelli impressed me v Juve, in the way Bocchetti did not v Parma.

Two deputies, both given a chance - and one did far better than the other, while the senior first choice is wildly out of form. Remember I whined about Armero being given a chance in the face of MDS being so poor? Well he too turned out awful, but I stand entirely by my desire to see someone else (whoever that was) given a chance. Just so happens we now have Antonelli who's managed to impress us all to a degree (more than MDS has this season) on his sole appearance so given the start, why change it?

If Antonelli has a shocker v Empoli, which I doubt, then we really are in the crapper because then all of Bocchetti, Armero, and Antonelli will be in poor form while MDS is miles away from being fit.



Difference with Zac is Abate is an all-round better RB who's rarely out of form. MDS is rarely in form.

Like I said, Antonelli was encouraging, but he also made a mistake on the first goal from Tevez imo. The guy is, as far as I can see, a good back up, better than Armero. But no, I still don't want to see him start ahead of DS if DS is fit.

One game against Juve does not a good player make. He could easily step out tomorrow and have a nightmare showing, we've seen this happen too many times to count now.

Same goes for Bocchetti tbh, one game, playing at LB, for me does not show whether he's good to be a back up or not. It's simply not enough to judge. I need to at least watch him a couple more time at CB before I completely throw him to the sharks and say the guy is cr@p
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Danny
post Feb 15 2015, 01:21 AM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ Feb 14 2015, 09:59 PM) *
Yoann Gourcuff


He didn't end up a shambles. He ended up totally underused. And wasted. And then sold.
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X-Offender
post Feb 15 2015, 01:23 AM
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Ricardo Oliveira?
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Danny
post Feb 15 2015, 11:15 AM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Feb 15 2015, 12:23 AM) *
Ricardo Oliveira?


Great for the first 30 minutes of his debut, then shite by the mid-second half.

But he is the closest to an example of such a situation I can think of. I remember it well - it was at San Siro v Lazio, and we'd just sold Sheva. And Oli looked great for that first half, but then ran out of steam second half and was a dismal failure every match afterwords.
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Fillipo Simone
post Feb 15 2015, 11:54 AM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Feb 14 2015, 11:14 PM) *
Give me an example of a really bad debut which got turned around the player ended up great.

Nelson Dida.

QUOTE
While you're at it, give me an example of a brilliant debut but the player ended up a shambles.

Thomas Locatelli debuted in a Coppa game with a good performance and a goal on top of it. Thomas who? Andre Cruz had a good season start with us. Ibrahim Ba in his first couple of games. Jens Lehman, starting with a great debut and then gradually making one (big) mistake after another in the coming few matches. Gianni Comandini scoring a goal and making a good figure in his debut against Dinamo Zagreb. I can go on and on...

Oliveira is also a good example, don't play that partially good card. He had a very good debut, scoring and making himself present. Did Antonelli play all 90 minutes on the same dynamic and overall good level? I don't think so.


QUOTE
Guess we're glad guys like Tomasson, KJH, and Gourcuff weren't given a chance here either then.

What does this have to do with anything? Tomasson played in the era of Shevchenko, Inzaghi, Kaka, Crespo...naturally it was hard for him to get any playing time. Gourcuff wasn't mentally right with Milan and Ancelotti noticed this early on. Huntelaar? Don't get me even started...mispositioned, misused, also kind of a small club striker.

But I didn't say all players that Milan shipped off were bad. I only said that it sure means something if the left side is a problem for years and you never once consider actually bringing back the guy you own.

QUOTE
Only the short-sighted ones. I never did.

Well good for you. Because Abate was really bad in his first days here.

QUOTE
Because he always was. He just matured and eventually fans learned of his value.

Completely disagree.

QUOTE
I didn't say we shouldn't? I just said, pound for pound, right now Antonelli is our best option at LB and worth giving a chance to.

With this I agree (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

QUOTE
No, but we do need a performer right now in as many slots as possible. Fact is MDS, injury notwithstanding, isn't in form and hasn't been for a long long time. You can't just keep selecting a player when his poor form will cost you goals.

What I'm saying is, one game is simply put not enough to mark Antonelli as "best" or "in form" or anything.
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han2503
post Feb 15 2015, 01:28 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Feb 15 2015, 01:21 AM) *
He didn't end up a shambles. He ended up totally underused. And wasted. And then sold.

A few years ago I would have agreed, but having watched his career unfold, I'm going to have to disagree, the guy was/is weak and having the players we did back then he would have needed a strong character to break through, Kaka had that, and pushed Rui Costa out of the side and into a permanent position of warming the bench
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nuh
post Feb 15 2015, 02:18 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Feb 15 2015, 12:15 PM) *
Great for the first 30 minutes of his debut, then shite by the mid-second half.

But he is the closest to an example of such a situation I can think of. I remember it well - it was at San Siro v Lazio, and we'd just sold Sheva. And Oli looked great for that first half, but then ran out of steam second half and was a dismal failure every match afterwords.

He didn't even start that game...he came off the bench to score
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Danny
post Feb 15 2015, 03:11 PM
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QUOTE (nuh @ Feb 15 2015, 01:18 PM) *
He didn't even start that game...he came off the bench to score


Was I thinking of the second match...yes, you're right. Amazing how a decade can alter a memory.
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Danny
post Feb 15 2015, 03:12 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Feb 15 2015, 10:54 AM) *
With this I agree (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


I'll do what is best and suggest we run with this part (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)
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X-Offender
post Feb 19 2015, 11:01 PM
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According to De Telegraaf, De Jong has already told the club he won't renew his contract and will leave at the end of the season, probably to ManU.

What a huge loss it will be... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
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