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> Serie A - Week 12 - AC Milan vs. Internazionale FC, Top & flop

Vote top and flop of round 12
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X-Offender
post Nov 26 2014, 06:43 PM
Post #31


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QUOTE (han2503 @ Nov 26 2014, 06:39 PM) *
I think he was, because otherwise SES had a fairly solid showing if nothing spectacular and also provided the assist (which brings him to 3 for the season so far)


Solid showing? Only you see this, pal. I thought he was poor, once again, and his assist is negated by that terrible miss.
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han2503
post Nov 26 2014, 09:28 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 26 2014, 06:43 PM) *
Solid showing? Only you see this, pal. I thought he was poor, once again, and his assist is negated by that terrible miss.

Solid for me doesn't mean he was particularly good, but he worked hard and when he did get the ball he used it well. The miss is what it is, of course I was just as p!ssed off when he didn't take the chance, but other then that I wouldn't call his performance either good or bad (basically just like the rest of the team, Muntari and Essien aside who were just plain bad)
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post Nov 26 2014, 10:20 PM
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You said "SES had a fairly solid showing if nothing spectacular", now you're saying he wasn't neither good nor bad. Which one is it?
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han2503
post Nov 27 2014, 01:37 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 26 2014, 10:20 PM) *
You said "SES had a fairly solid showing if nothing spectacular", now you're saying he wasn't neither good nor bad. Which one is it?

I think it's both, I'm not saying he was great, but the work he did when he was involved in plays was fairly solid imo

How does this suddenly become me praising him? Or only wanting to see the good in his performance?

It was a solid showing, i.e. used the ball well, worked hard, provided the assist.

The miss was bad but again, for me it does not define the entire 90 minute performance like it does for you
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post Nov 27 2014, 01:55 PM
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He always works hard in every game, it's not like he worked harder than usual against Juve. But working hard and using the ball well doesn't equal solid performance. Honda is a hard worker, but he's been crap for most of his time here. For a striker, being incisive and not wasting opportunities is crucial, and assist aside, SES barely created anything dangerous and went on missing the most absurd of goal opportunities.
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Danny
post Nov 27 2014, 04:09 PM
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Seems that everyone on here bar Han sees SES for what he sadly is.

Let's hope he's the one who proves us wrong, but in almost 4 years, there's little sign he will.
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han2503
post Nov 27 2014, 04:22 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Nov 27 2014, 04:09 PM) *
Seems that everyone on here bar Han sees SES for what he sadly is.

Let's hope he's the one who proves us wrong, but in almost 4 years, there's little sign he will.

Well, I don't see him as some sort of star world beater, but I do see potential in him and I also see that he works hard, for me that's important because there's nothing I hate more than seeing someone with a world of talent and wasting it away by being lazy.

So even if SES is not the most talented kid around right now, the fact that he works hard and wants to improve himself allows me to have more patience with him than some here are willing to allow
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post Nov 27 2014, 05:05 PM
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I think you're just being desperate, Han. We lack a team of true stars like we did until 5-6 years ago, so you try to delude yourself into thinking that SES can be something special, just like you did with Pato and Balotelli.
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Fillipo Simone
post Nov 27 2014, 05:22 PM
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I disagree. I don't think Han showed any signs of delusion. Having faith in Pato, Balo or SES firstly isn't the same and secondly isn't delusional on a general level.

Balotelli and Pato all had talent - this was indisputable. They showed they are great individuals, they can make the extra goal and pull out the team with their individual strength. Both had mental problems alla Adriano and turned out badly (even thought there is still time to turn this around) - but never was this faith in them misplaced, at least IMO. The talent was there, the potential, no real limitation: just mental issues and (in Pato's case) injuries that made their boom impossible. But putting faith in such players is by no means deluded or extra optimistic. It's a viable as saying "he sucks" just so you can shout "I told you so" later.

SES? He needs to prove himself. Surely. But it's delusional to whine about him of call him names at this point as well. The guy never had a real coach with Milan at the first place, nor did he encounter any help - like Ancelotti provided help to Pirlo in the crucial moment. He also faced a horrendous injury spell and only came out of it this season. The question is, what do we expect out of him? Do we really play to his strengths and build on him?
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acid911
post Nov 27 2014, 05:28 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 27 2014, 10:22 PM) *
The question is, what do we expect out of him?

Effort. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) And nothing but.
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han2503
post Nov 27 2014, 05:48 PM
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QUOTE (acid911 @ Nov 27 2014, 05:28 PM) *
Effort. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) And nothing but.

See now this is something I think you're just saying just to do so, because he ALWAYS puts in effort, it's just that at times that effort, especially now when he's struggling, is not paying off

@ x-off, as Filippo said, having faith in players who clearly have talent is not delusions, and having faith in someone who's not as talented but works his @ss off isn't either.

I've had faith in Abate for years now, because I could see that he was working his @ss off week in week out and it's paying off.

I'm not deluded into thinking SES is some wonder kid Messi to be. He has talent, but imo, it's limited, especially since he's being played in a position that requires natural technical abilities that I don't think he possesses. But the fact that I see him busting a gut out there when he does play shows me that he's working on it and even if he's not the most naturally gifted player he doesn't give up on personal improvement.

If he doesn't come good within the next 2 to 3 years, sure you can do your "told you so dance" and I'll admit that he wasn't cut out for this, but as of yet, to see people judging him so harshly just does not sit well with me, especially since most of these same people give someone like Muntari their seal of approval each week no matter how horrid he truly is
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Fillipo Simone
post Nov 27 2014, 05:57 PM
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QUOTE (acid911 @ Nov 27 2014, 07:28 PM) *
Effort. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) And nothing but.

Really? But what does that mean actually? You think SES is a lazy kid who's not showing effort. How can we translate "effort" into something more concrete?

Also, who's now to blame? Pippo who failed motivating the players or the individuals who don't show enough effort?
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kurtsimonw
post Nov 27 2014, 06:08 PM
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SES has, generally, been very poor for 2 years now. He's had maybe a handful of acceptable performances. His lack of ability/mistakes are obviously not as costly to the team as he's higher up the field. But people try to find the positives in his performances, when they'll look for the negatives in the same quality of performance for lesser liked players.

He's just bad.
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acid911
post Nov 27 2014, 06:19 PM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ Nov 27 2014, 10:48 PM) *
See now this is something I think you're just saying just to do so, because he ALWAYS puts in effort, it's just that at times that effort, especially now when he's struggling, is not paying off

Nah, man, the hustle and bustle that he puts up in every match is not effort. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) That's the minimum requirement, and while it is good to see the guy putting in the steps all the time, or always, as you put it, that's not what I meant. Flamini put this in every time he was here, and look where that took him.

What I need to see is effort and SES trying to develop his game, failing and then picking himself up, asserting himself on the pitch, enhancing his game reading skills and visions, as well as his dribbling, pace and finishing. Keep on improving as any young player should and he'll get there.

Not this limited showings, resting on his laurels and tracking back and forth. That won't get him anywhere. As I said, that is the minimum required, the least one expects from a young player with fresh spirits.

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 27 2014, 10:57 PM) *
Really? But what does that mean actually? You think SES is a lazy kid who's not showing effort. How can we translate "effort" into something more concrete?

Han beat you to it, my friend, and I've answered part of your question above. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy.gif) Lazy he is not, but crazy he is a bit, in that he is wasting time developing his game. His skills repertoire. As of this writing, at least for me, his range and talent is lower than Balotelli, let alone Pato.

Does he have time? Oh plenty. But with this attitude, he is just going to end up being a pedestrian player. We've all seen guys like him that failed to do justice to the break they got by being lulled into a false sense of security. Injuries haven't helped, I know, but were SES developing his game, concretely, it would have shown.

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 27 2014, 10:57 PM) *
Also, who's now to blame? Pippo who failed motivating the players or the individuals who don't show enough effort?

In this case, I'm afraid both parties are to blame. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) The management more so, because they are the ones that hired Inzaghi as the coach. I mean, learning on the job? That doesn't cut it in most organizations, let alone high profile ones like this. Even if Inzaghi gets to grip with the coaching side of it, he'll falter.

He'll falter with man management, growth of young players, maybe even carving out a system for himself. And for the record, I don't think he's got his hands on the coaching bit, not in these first few months of the season. In terms of coaching, we get a fat F, actually, nothing has changed from the Allegri days. Nothing much.

The Leonardo and Seedorf days were different, though. The former brought in the spirit, without much tactical knowhow, and the other was at least tying for a system before he was cut short. Inzaghi has failed with both here, he's just striding along week to week.

As for the individuals, well, to be honest, most of our players deserve a good punch to the guts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif) At least one. They're just in it for the dough, and are not doing our shirt justice, or giving it the respect it deserves. But when the whole system is rotten to the core, from the very top, what can you say? Right, right?

Once again, the fix has to come from the top, SES is just a pawn. Who is not developing one bit. Pity.
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acid911
post Nov 27 2014, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Nov 27 2014, 11:08 PM) *
He's just bad.

And he likes it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) In his position, someone else that was serious about improving, would have shown some signs of learning and trying something. It would be evident from his interviews, or his displays on the pitch. Not the carelessness that I see from SES, save for his backtracking and helping the team.

But for someone that is termed a key figure, a young talent, he does not bring it. Does not bring it at all.
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