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> Summer Transfers 2019

 
Danny
post Aug 7 2019, 03:26 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Aug 7 2019, 02:49 PM) *
He meant "if". Biglia and Kessie are apparently on the market.


Ah got it. Sorry for my being miles out of the loop the past few months, my passion for Milan, while not and never gone, definitely dimmed.

Seeing the current state of this once-glorious club really is depressing.
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X-Offender
post Aug 7 2019, 03:35 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Aug 7 2019, 03:26 PM) *
Ah got it. Sorry for my being miles out of the loop the past few months, my passion for Milan, while not and never gone, definitely dimmed.

Seeing the current state of this once-glorious club really is depressing.


But when you think about it, we're in better shape now than 4-5 years ago, when we were finishing 10th in the league.

Last season we missed the CL for one point, our best result since 2013.

And I am hopeful for next season.
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TriniKing_CE
post Aug 7 2019, 06:12 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Aug 7 2019, 11:35 AM) *
But when you think about it, we're in better shape now than 4-5 years ago, when we were finishing 10th in the league.

Last season we missed the CL for one point, our best result since 2013.

And I am hopeful for next season.

Yes... This!

Let's Go!!! Forza Milan (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devilsmiley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
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Fillipo Simone
post Aug 7 2019, 06:19 PM
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I really don't get the optimism around here. Yes, we're better off now then 4 years ago finishing 10th. We're also much worse then 7 years ago when we finished 2nd. Nowadays we only can dream about contesting the scudetto. We have a team with what, 2-3 max players who even once experienced CL football?

We signed okay players, nothing more. No marquee signing, no experience added and the crucial components still missing. Sorry, I don't see much room for optimism, only a lot of shots in the dark but then again hardly any of those can make us considerably better to pull through and secure us the 4th spot in a league that isn't exactly competitive. Think outside the borders of Serie A for a moment: teams from Spain and England are miles away from and team bar Juventus. German teams who are in a constant decline are also much better.

To put it simply - too many factors and too much changes has to happen in order for Milan to become relevant again.
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X-Offender
post Aug 7 2019, 06:35 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Aug 7 2019, 06:19 PM) *
I really don't get the optimism around here. Yes, we're better off now then 4 years ago finishing 10th. We're also much worse then 7 years ago when we finished 2nd. Nowadays we only can dream about contesting the scudetto. We have a team with what, 2-3 max players who even once experienced CL football?

We signed okay players, nothing more. No marquee signing, no experience added and the crucial components still missing. Sorry, I don't see much room for optimism, only a lot of shots in the dark but then again hardly any of those can make us considerably better to pull through and secure us the 4th spot in a league that isn't exactly competitive. Think outside the borders of Serie A for a moment: teams from Spain and England are miles away from and team bar Juventus. German teams who are in a constant decline are also much better.

To put it simply - too many factors and too much changes has to happen in order for Milan to become relevant again.


Fillipo, you always talk as if we're still this great club that's having a number of bad seasons and needs to get back on track.

No, we're not a great club anymore. Context. Perspective. Italians use the word "ridimensionati", which literally translates to resized. We haven't played in the CL for 6 frigging years! So, given the circumstances, and given how we performed last season missing 4th place by a single point, I personally have to say that we've gotten stronger this summer and that I'm optimistic for a CL position next season.

Who even thinks about contesting the Scudetto for crying out loud!
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Rossoneri7
post Aug 7 2019, 09:48 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Aug 7 2019, 02:18 AM) *
True, but bear in mind with midfields and flanks being so dominant now, going two up front and sacrificing a man in midfield and the flanks makes us vulnerable.

It's not a good way to move forward.

In short, we'll be outnumbered.


Maybe we will be outnumbered and maybe well finish 10th place ... it all depends on the coach and how well the team jells.

I for one am optimistic and cant wait to see what this new season brings (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)
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Danny
post Aug 7 2019, 10:27 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Aug 7 2019, 03:35 PM) *
But when you think about it, we're in better shape now than 4-5 years ago, when we were finishing 10th in the league.

Last season we missed the CL for one point, our best result since 2013.

And I am hopeful for next season.


I can't argue with any of the logic in here. But it doesn't make me hopeful!
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Forza Milan!
post Aug 7 2019, 11:52 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Aug 7 2019, 07:35 PM) *
No, we're not a great club anymore. Context. Perspective. Italians use the word "ridimensionati", which literally translates to resized. We haven't played in the CL for 6 frigging years! So, given the circumstances, and given how we performed last season missing 4th place by a single point, I personally have to say that we've gotten stronger this summer and that I'm optimistic for a CL position next season.

Who even thinks about contesting the Scudetto for crying out loud!

That sums it up. :-) Add to it the fact that we need to rebuild in a way that does not cause us further FFP problems. This means we cannot afford big name signings (I keep hearing Modric, but I am not convinced it will really happen), we need to reduce our wage bill (some progress has been made towards this goal but we are still too high), and we need to start generating serious plusvalenze with our players (which is what has been driving our mercato, including the sale of Cutrone).

Like it or not, even if all goes well, it will be a few years before we can expect to challenge for scudetto or compete at an international level beyond the group stage. For now, 4th place is our target this year, and even that will be tough (I am optimistic, but not comfortable we will get there).

The optimism I feel is relative to the past:
- The last years under B&G were a complete disaster (and have sunk us deep in a hole). Even the year we won our last scudetto we had already entered our downwards spiral, and it kept getting worse from there.
- The Chinese interlude was as bad (if not worse). Lots of optimism after what looked like a great mercato, but in hindsight we M&F picked the wrong players and overpaid them.
- Arguably Montella had a decent playing style, but it did not work for us (wrong players?) and he could not motivate the team (especially towards the end). Gattuso brought much needed grinta, but he was somewhat limited in his tactical approach.

What is different now?
- A coach who may not have a great track record but is rated highly by his peers and has a reputation for increasing player value (which in theory should help generate the plusvalenze we badly need). Y'all may not like the 4-3-1-2, but at least there is clarity in how we play, and our players seem to be adjusting to it. Hopefully Giampaolo's attacking style will be effective enough to see an end to the painful draws with lesser teams.
- A decent mercato strategy, which is oriented towards increasing the value of the team, and consistent with what our coach is asking for (this is different from what we had with B&G, I remember Leo asking for a winger for his 4-3-3 and getting Huntelaar instead; M&F were not much better, doubt it they paid much attention to Montella). Our new players may or may not work out, but this approach offers hope (and is definitely better than looking for "have beens" and other rejects and overpaying them).
- A new owner that is treating Milan as a medium term investment, trying to make decent money and not just turning the team around for a quick sale. Why does this matter? Because for the team to gain in value we will need to start getting results in the field. IMHO, Berlu never really treated Milan as a business (more like a "shiny toy" to help his political career and other business ventures), it was a "parking lot" for friends and family, and once he lost interest it all went downhill rather quickly. As for Li, I am sill trying to understand what he was trying to accomplish.
- New leaders that are well respected by fans and others in the soccer world. Please keep in mind that both M&B were quite negative in the last few years, so someone must have done a good job at convincing them that there is real hope. True, they do not have a lot of experience (especially Maldini), but there are people with experience behind them, and they help with the image of the club.

Bottom line ... patience :-)
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Forza Milan!
post Aug 8 2019, 03:53 AM
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Kessie news is confusing me.
- Offer was made by Wolverhampton at 25.6M GBP (link)
- Offer was accepted by Milan at 25M EUR (link). I could find only the one source for this story, and on another fan site there is a claim this is "fake news".

We paid around 20M at the beginning of the market, not sure if that has been amortized. If I understand how FFP accounting works, I doubt Elliot would agree to sell unless there was a reasonable plusvalenza. Of course, I am an engineer, and never really understood accounting stuff. In any case, we find out tomorrow one way or another, as EPL market closes.

I still think Kessie has potential under Giampaolo (though I know some of you disagree :-)), and he has been one of our best performers in the last couple of years. Not sure I am happy with him leaving, even if he helps fund other purchases.

This post has been edited by Forza Milan!: Aug 8 2019, 03:08 PM
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TriniKing_CE
post Aug 8 2019, 06:35 AM
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QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Aug 7 2019, 07:52 PM) *
That sums it up. :-) Add to it the fact that we need to rebuild in a way that does not cause us further FFP problems. This means we cannot afford big name signings (I keep hearing Modric, but I am not convinced it will really happen), we need to reduce our wage bill (some progress has been made towards this goal but we are still too high), and we need to start generating serious plusvalenze with our players (which is what has been driving our mercato, including the sale of Cutrone).

Like it or not, even if all goes well, it will be a few years before we can expect to challenge for scudetto or compete at an international level beyond the group stage. For now, 4th place is our target this year, and even that will be tough (I am optimistic, but not comfortable we will get there).

The optimism I feel is relative to the past:
- The last years under B&G were a complete disaster (and have sunk us deep in a hole). Even the year we won our last scudetto we had already entered our downwards spiral, and it kept getting worse from there.
- The Chinese interlude was as bad (if not worse). Lots of optimism after what looked like a great mercato, but in hindsight we M&F picked the wrong players and overpaid them.
- Arguably Montella had a decent playing style, but it did not work for us (wrong players?) and he could not motivate the team (especially towards the end). Gattuso brought much needed grinta, but he was somewhat limited in his tactical approach.

What is different now?
- A coach who may not have a great track record but is rated highly by his peers and has a reputation for increasing player value (which in theory should help generate the plusvalenze we badly need). Y'all may not like the 4-3-1-2, but at least there is clarity in how we play, and our players seem to be adjusting to it. Hopefully Giampaolo's attacking style will be effective enough to see an end to the painful draws with lesser teams.
- A decent mercato strategy, which is oriented towards increasing the value of the team, and consistent with what our coach is asking for (this is different from what we had with B&G, I remember Leo asking for a winger for his 4-3-3 and getting Huntelaar instead; M&F were not much better, doubt it they paid much attention to Montella). Our new players may or may not work out, but this approach offers hope (and is definitely better than looking for "have beens" and other rejects and overpaying them).
- A new owner that is treating Milan as a medium term investment, trying to make decent money and not just turning the team around for a quick sale. Why does this matter? Because for the team to gain in value we will need to start getting results in the field. IMHO, Berlu never really treated Milan as a business (more like a "shiny toy" to help his political career and other business ventures), it was a "parking lot" for friends and family, and once he lost interest it all went downhill rather quickly. As for Li, I am sill trying to understand what he was trying to accomplish.
- New leaders that are well respected by fans and others in the soccer world. Please keep in mind that both M&B were quite negative in the last few years, so someone must have done a good job at convincing them that there is real hope. True, they do not have a lot of experience (especially Maldini), but there are people with experience behind them, and they help with the image of the club.

Bottom line ... patience :-)

Lovely post... Agree with most (if not all). ;)
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Rossoneri7
post Aug 8 2019, 09:16 AM
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QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Aug 8 2019, 06:53 AM) *
Kessie news is confusing me.
- Offer was made by Wolverhampton at 25.6M GBP (link)
- Offer was accepted by Milan at 25M EUR (link). I could find only the one source for this story, and on another fan site there is a claim this is "fake news".

We paid around 20M at the beginning of the market, not sure if that has been amortized. If I understand how FFP accounting works, I doubt Elliot would agree to sell unless there was a reasonable plusvalenza. Of course, I am an engineer, and never really understood accounting stuff. In any case, we find out tomorrow one way or another, as EPL market closes.

I still think Kessie has potential under Giampaolo (though I know some of you disagree :-)), and he has been one of our best performers in the last couple of years Not sure I am happy with him leaving, even if he helps fund other purchases.


The 8M the club paid for a two year loan was amortized over the two years, but the outright purchase for 24M paid last month is why Kessie is on sale. The club want to remove that dent from their P&L.

This management at Milan Gazides and the President have a mandate to turn the club into profitability and in line with FFP.

Li wanted a quick turnaround and did expensive purchases that never really helped in the turnaround.

Silvio and Galliani are why we all became Milan fans, let us not discount that please. In their last years at the helm yes Milan was not what it used to be, but that was down to changing times and FFP kicking in.

Anyways whats done is done, this is a club downsizing to its reality.

This post has been edited by Rossoneri7: Aug 8 2019, 09:17 AM
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X-Offender
post Aug 8 2019, 01:10 PM
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QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Aug 8 2019, 03:53 AM) *
I still think Kessie has potential under Giampaolo (though I know some of you disagree :-)), and he has been one of our best performers in the last couple of years Not sure I am happy with him leaving, even if he helps fund other purchases.


Come again? Kessie has been perhaps the biggest disappointment of all the players signed by Fassone and Mirabelli two years ago, at least in my opinion.

I would have loved to see him go. That would have provided the money to sign a quality box-to-box mid.
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Forza Milan!
post Aug 8 2019, 03:06 PM
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QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Aug 8 2019, 10:16 AM) *
The 8M the club paid for a two year loan was amortized over the two years, but the outright purchase for 24M paid last month is why Kessie is on sale. The club want to remove that dent from their P&L.

Thanks, that clarifies matters. So (if I get this right) the 24M is not amortized and we would (most likely) be looking for a profit on that. In fact the latest news has the offer at 30M (EUR), which makes more sense (link), that would give us enough of a plusvalenza to fund some of the other acquisitions. In any case it does not look like Kessie wants to go there, and there is not much time before EPL closes its transfer window.

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Aug 8 2019, 10:16 AM) *
Silvio and Galliani are why we all became Milan fans, let us not discount that please. In their last years at the helm yes Milan was not what it used to be, but that was down to changing times and FFP kicking in.

For the record, I was a Milan fan in the days of Gianni Rivera and Nereo Rocco :-). But yes, I am extremely grateful for all the good years, especially considering what had been happening to my team before Berlu took over. It does not take away the fact that the last years were a complete disaster. Even with decreased funds and FFP and changing times B&G could have handled things much, much better. The mis-management of the club, the horrible choices on players, the obsession with "parametro zero" coupled with ridiculously high salaries, the sale to Li ... all of this could have been avoided.

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Aug 8 2019, 02:10 PM) *
Come again? Kessie has been perhaps the biggest disappointment of all the players signed by Fassone and Mirabelli two years ago, at least in my opinion.

A number of Milan fans (me included) would disagree with your assessment of Kessie :-). As for "biggest disappointment", surely that goes to either Silva or Bonucci.

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Aug 8 2019, 02:10 PM) *
I would have loved to see him go. That would have provided the money to sign a quality box-to-box mid.

As I said, I have mixed feelings. First of all, my guess is the plusvalenza is going to contribute to funding Correa, not a b2b mid. But assuming we were after a b2b mid, who would we sign for similar money?
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X-Offender
post Aug 8 2019, 03:13 PM
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Bonucci was not a disappointment. He had a fairly decent season. And Siva was a question mark when we signed him, so we didn't really know what to expect.

But Kessie was coming from a great season with Atalanta, and he had been amazing in the pre-season friendlies and the first few games of the season. But then he started going into a downward spiral and his overall contribution has been quite poor.
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William405
post Aug 8 2019, 03:30 PM
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I always thought Kessie did okay. Yes, he does stupid stuff. But, he contributes a lot too. The main problem is that he makes great runs, but his decision making is terrible at the end. He either doesn't manage to score or to pass. But, I still think he can be good in Giamp's system.
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