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AC Milan - Milanfan.com _ Football Discussion _ World Cup 2014

Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Jun 2 2014, 08:39 AM

All World Cup 2014 talk in here cool.gif

Posted by: han2503 Jun 2 2014, 10:16 AM

Can't wait, really excited for this one, Africa was just one huge let down, so hoping this will be better

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Jun 2 2014, 10:34 AM

I support Team Hodgson. king.gif

Posted by: han2503 Jun 2 2014, 10:49 AM

QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Jun 2 2014, 10:34 AM) *
I support Team Hodgson. king.gif

puke.gif puke.gif

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 2 2014, 11:12 AM

I fancy Italy. I honestly think they have a really good team this time around.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 2 2014, 12:48 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 2 2014, 11:12 AM) *
I fancy Italy. I honestly think they have a really good team this time around.

Don't want to get my hopes up. But I'm hoping for a good run

Just think that a S. American team will win this thing this time around.

I am sort of expecting an implosion of sorts from Spain though. I think there time just has to come to an end sooner rather than later

Posted by: dst Jun 2 2014, 12:59 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 2 2014, 10:16 AM) *
Can't wait, really excited for this one, Africa was just one huge let down, so hoping this will be better

I've never been less excited about a WC. Maybe as get closer I will.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 2 2014, 02:08 PM

Germany and France were great. They're the only World Cups I've seen that I thought were great. Japan/Korea was decent.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 2 2014, 04:07 PM

QUOTE (dst @ Jun 2 2014, 12:59 PM) *
I've never been less excited about a WC. Maybe as get closer I will.

Well it can't get much closer now as we're only a few days away tongue.gif

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 2 2014, 02:08 PM) *
Germany and France were great. They're the only World Cups I've seen that I thought were great. Japan/Korea was decent.

Yep, don't want to sound biased but I think they're organised better in European countries because they actually know what the sport is all about

Posted by: Danny Jun 2 2014, 04:12 PM

Can't wait for this. A football-based distraction from the hell of Milan and Rangers right now.

My picks for the last 4 are Brazil, Germany, Uruguay and Belgium.

I'll also be watching out for Croatia, Portugal, Ghana and USA.

Argentina will flop, Spain will go out at last 8 and England won't get out their group.

Bring it on.

Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Jun 2 2014, 07:22 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 2 2014, 03:08 PM) *
Germany and France were great. They're the only World Cups I've seen that I thought were great. Japan/Korea was decent.

I actually really liked 2002, even with the time zone and the bizarre Spain - Korea game. Germany was great though agree.

Anything, anything, ANYTHING will be an improvement on South Africa though, that was a horrible tournament in many ways.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 2 2014, 07:30 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 2 2014, 04:12 PM) *
Can't wait for this. A football-based distraction from the hell of Milan and Rangers right now.

My picks for the last 4 are Brazil, Germany, Uruguay and Belgium.

I'll also be watching out for Croatia, Portugal, Ghana and USA.

Argentina will flop, Spain will go out at last 8 and England won't get out their group.

Bring it on.

Interested choices Danny

But my guess is that the US won't get out of their group

Posted by: arivanjj Jun 3 2014, 12:56 PM

I understand the home support will get brazil through group stage and round of 16. beyone that i just seeing them flopping. i really don't get why everyone else thinks they're so great but i guess we shall see.

Italy would be my pick for this one.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 3 2014, 01:02 PM

So, how's Brazil gonna play? I assume:

Cesar
Alves - Luiz - Silva - Marcelo
Ramires - Paulinho
Hulk - Oscar - Neymar
Fred


Meh, it's not that great. Defense looks good, but no-one in that midfield is a world beater, not even Neymar. And they don't have a world-class striker. Fred and Jo FFS?!

Posted by: han2503 Jun 3 2014, 01:18 PM

QUOTE (arivanjj @ Jun 3 2014, 12:56 PM) *
I understand the home support will get brazil through group stage and round of 16. beyone that i just seeing them flopping. i really don't get why everyone else thinks they're so great but i guess we shall see.

Italy would be my pick for this one.

I guess their performances in the Confederations Cup really helped along in hyping up their chances. Still I think the home advantage will be huge for them, as well as the other S. American sides

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 3 2014, 01:02 PM) *
So, how's Brazil gonna play? I assume:

Cesar
Alves - Luiz - Silva - Marcelo
Ramires - Paulinho
Hulk - Oscar - Neymar
Fred


Meh, it's not that great. Defense looks good, but no-one in that midfield is a world beater, not even Neymar. And they don't have a world-class striker. Fred and Jo FFS?!

I read somewhere that Paulinho is out due to injury with Ramires taking over his spot. Don't know if this is correct though...

Agreed about the striker situation which is abysmal for them, the same country that fielded the best striker of this generation a decade ago now relies on this.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Jun 3 2014, 04:57 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 3 2014, 07:48 PM) *
Agreed about the striker situation which is abysmal for them, the same country that fielded the best striker of this generation a decade ago now relies on this.


Oliveira? huh.gif




tongue.gif

Posted by: han2503 Jun 3 2014, 05:25 PM

QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Jun 3 2014, 04:57 PM) *
Oliveira? huh.gif




tongue.gif

laugh.gif laugh.gif

Was he ever even on a Barzil WC squad? unsure.gif

Posted by: Jack Bauer Jun 3 2014, 06:13 PM

A little hint about who I always support:


Posted by: han2503 Jun 3 2014, 07:06 PM

QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Jun 3 2014, 06:13 PM) *
A little hint about who I always support:


king.gif king.gif

2 questions, how do you think Italy will do against England? And what formation do you think they should play?

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 3 2014, 08:08 PM

I always used to support Germany until 2012. I even got very upset in 2006 when Italy beat them in the semis. But being a huge Milan fan over the years, being exposed to their culture ever since I was a kid, and then living in Milan for three years sort of 'italianized' me, and in the 2012 Euro semis I finally realized that I support Italy more. Germany are still my second choice though.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Jun 3 2014, 08:50 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 3 2014, 10:06 PM) *
king.gif king.gif

2 questions, how do you think Italy will do against England? And what formation do you think they should play?

I think it will be a boring draw or a minimal Azzurri win since Italy usually starts pretty slow and it takes them time to get things going.

I would play with Verratti in the further role (DDR, Pirlo and Marchisio are the other 3 mids) - as he's too talented to leave out - behind Balo and Immobile. Not Ideal but it is what it is when you don't have a good trequartista. But Prandelli will robably play with Candreva and Cassano.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 3 2014, 08:59 PM

QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Jun 3 2014, 08:50 PM) *
I think it will be a boring draw or a minimal Azzurri win since Italy usually starts pretty slow and it takes them time to get things going.

I would play with Verratti in the further role (DDR, Pirlo and Marchisio are the other 3 mids) - as he's too talented to leave out - behind Balo and Immobile. Not Ideal but it is what it is when you don't have a good trequartista. But Prandelli will robably play with Candreva and Cassano.

Totally agree with you although I do think that Cassano or Insigne would be better strike partners for Balo as they have more of a creative edge to them rather than Immobile who is more of a direct player and would most likely force Balo in the "support" role.

Agreed on the midfield as well. I think Prandelli will go for the 4 CMs in the diamond, which is what has worked so well for them in the past, and I also agree that it should be Verratti playing the trequartista role and Marchisio being in the midfield 3 rather then the other way around.

My biggest worry is Candreva. I seriously do NOT want him anywhere near the starting line-up come that opener against England, especially not for someone like Verratti who's so talented and has so much to offer.

And x-off, great to hear that you've crossed over to the better side. Germany will just never beat Italy in open play at the rate things are going tongue.gif biggrin.gif

Posted by: Danny Jun 3 2014, 09:17 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 2 2014, 06:30 PM) *
Interested choices Danny

But my guess is that the US won't get out of their group


They won't, I'm just watching out for them biggrin.gif

I'm also keeping an eye on Colombia, albeit less so now than Falcao is out. Total tragedy that. They could have made the quarters with him. Now...who knows.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Jun 3 2014, 09:24 PM

BTW, I feel so bad for Rossi, he's so unlucky. Second WC in a row he didn't make the 23 list and because all the injuries he's still never tasted a major international tournament.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 3 2014, 09:48 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 3 2014, 09:17 PM) *
They won't, I'm just watching out for them biggrin.gif

I'm also keeping an eye on Colombia, albeit less so now than Falcao is out. Total tragedy that. They could have made the quarters with him. Now...who knows.

Yeah, that's a huge loss for them. Don't know about making the quarters but they would have probably gotten out of their group

QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Jun 3 2014, 09:24 PM) *
BTW, I feel so bad for Rossi, he's so unlucky. Second WC in a row he didn't make the 23 list and because all the injuries he's still never tasted a major international tournament.

I'm more p!ssed off rather then sad. A limited player like Candreva gets in the squad so Rossi loses out, same goes with Aquilani and Motta in all honesty who have both been horribly poor for Italy every time they were given the chance

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 3 2014, 11:32 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 3 2014, 09:48 PM) *
I'm more p!ssed off rather then sad. A limited player like Candreva gets in the squad so Rossi loses out, same goes with Aquilani and Motta in all honesty who have both been horribly poor for Italy every time they were given the chance


If Rossi was to be picked, then another striker should have left, not any of the midfielders.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 4 2014, 08:06 AM

I get the impression it's only English people who actually support their own NT. laugh.gif

Posted by: arivanjj Jun 4 2014, 09:17 AM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 4 2014, 06:06 PM) *
I get the impression it's only English people who actually support their own NT. laugh.gif

laugh.gif so true. They have reached a level of mundane that can't be undone!

Posted by: han2503 Jun 4 2014, 10:16 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 3 2014, 11:32 PM) *
If Rossi was to be picked, then another striker should have left, not any of the midfielders.

Yeah I get that, but it really doesn't make much sense. Prandelli has taken an overload of midfielders, 3 of them all mediocre at best and only 2 recognised out and out strikers (I don't consider Cassano and Cerci strikers)

Posted by: Danny Jun 4 2014, 11:54 AM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 4 2014, 07:06 AM) *
I get the impression it's only English people who actually support their own NT. laugh.gif


And even then it's hardly a labour of love wink.gif

Posted by: han2503 Jun 4 2014, 08:12 PM

Candreva: Easily the most limited player I've seen with the Italy shirt in a while. Feels like playing with 10-men, he can't even make a simple cross field pass out to DS from the right side

Posted by: han2503 Jun 4 2014, 08:20 PM

And WTF is Prandelli doing with that midfield. I seriously hope this is not how he sets them out against England

Pirlo so high up is getting by-passed, he needs to be the one to pick the ball up from deep and dictate, not get stuck out nearly wide left.

Marchisio is playing as the AM which imo is a mistake as Verratti would be better there while Marchisio is best making those late runs into the box

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 4 2014, 09:43 PM

Sterling sent off for being pushed in the back of the head and grabbed round the throat by Valencia. Valencia obviously should've been sent off, but to give Sterling a red there is ridiculous.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 4 2014, 10:16 PM

Italy with one of the worst International results... ever?

Posted by: Danny Jun 4 2014, 10:34 PM

Put my bet on at last. I'm not a betting man but I've been shouting off my last 4 for ages so time to put my money where my mouth is and put £5 on Brazil, Uruguay, Germany and Belgium being the final 4.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 4 2014, 10:42 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 4 2014, 10:16 PM) *
Italy with one of the worst International results... ever?

Meh, didn't they draw with Haiti 2-2 before the Confeds? Then there was that 3-0 loss to Russia and 1-0 loss to the USA before the Euros.

They also drew both friendlies before the 06 WC as well as drew 2 and lost 1 before the 2010 WC

Aside from 2010, you can't really make much of it.

Prandelli started with the 11 (hopefully minus Candreva) that are most likely to start against England but it felt like he was taking the p!ss out of it with all of the experiments that were going on with the midfield and Candreva constantly changing positions and even their shape

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 4 2014, 11:41 PM

Why would he play Candreva? Why? Why? Why?

Posted by: Jack Bauer Jun 5 2014, 12:40 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 5 2014, 02:41 AM) *
Why would he play Candreva? Why? Why? Why?


Posted by: han2503 Jun 5 2014, 08:45 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 4 2014, 11:41 PM) *
Why would he play Candreva? Why? Why? Why?

Seriously! He's easily the most limited player I've seen in a while play for Italy. And he was supposedly included in the line-up instead of Cassano because he provides more work rate and cover for Abate, but Marchisio and Pirlo were doing a better job at that on the left side helping DS out while Candreva was almost invisible.

He mostly made terrible passes, especially to Abate after he busted his gut to overlap his run and shot at row Z a couple of times.

There's obviously a lot Italy need to work in in the next few days. The midfield last night was a complete mess. Don't know if it was intentional from Prandelli to throw off the teams in their group as these friendlies are usually used as indications of how a team will play, especially for the opener.

Also, Cassano isn't a "hard worker" (not that Candreva was busting his @ss out there yesterday) but he gives Italy that creative spark that no one else on that team can, some of the combinations him and Balo played yesterday after he came on were simply amazing to watch.

Imo, the best 11 for Italy and the one they should play against England with is

Abate--Chiellini--Barzagli--MDS
Pirlo
De Rossi--Marchisio
Verratti
Balo--Cassano

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 5 2014, 09:10 AM

I would hope Italy would do something like that. Lack of pace would be a huge plus to us.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Jun 5 2014, 09:26 AM

Prandelli's abysmal friendly record is not news. He treats friendlies they way they ought to be. Glorified training ground 11 v 11.

His record as NT coach is pretty impressive. I read it today morning. 20 victories and 3 defeats. 2 to Spain and 1 to Brazil in the Confed cup.

So if you're only losing to eventual tournament winners that's not too bad. Especially considering the shape of that squad.

That defence. Urgh!

Posted by: han2503 Jun 5 2014, 10:22 AM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 5 2014, 09:10 AM) *
I would hope Italy would do something like that. Lack of pace would be a huge plus to us.

Just like it was a huge plus for you in the Euros? wink.gif

Italy have always had a lack of pace as a collective, sure there are certain pacy players who have played in the team, but mostly it's always been a relatively slow side.

We have pace where it matters imo, FBs. It's the only area England can use their pace. Sturridge through the centre will come up against Chiellini and Bonucci/Barzagli.

QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Jun 5 2014, 09:26 AM) *
Prandelli's abysmal friendly record is not news. He treats friendlies they way they ought to be. Glorified training ground 11 v 11.

His record as NT coach is pretty impressive. I read it today morning. 20 victories and 3 defeats. 2 to Spain and 1 to Brazil in the Confed cup.

So if you're only losing to eventual tournament winners that's not too bad. Especially considering the shape of that squad.

That defence. Urgh!

I think it's 2 defeats, he only lost once to Spain, in the Final of the Euros. He drew with them both in the group stage and in the Confed Cup

Posted by: Danny Jun 5 2014, 01:14 PM

I don't see Italy making it to the last 8.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 5 2014, 01:19 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 5 2014, 01:14 PM) *
I don't see Italy making it to the last 8.

We'll see, I'm not overly confident. The mish mash in the friendlies from Prandelli has put in even more doubt at the back of my mind.

But if they do get out of the group I think last 8 is a given considering whoever comes out of group D is going to face relatively easy opposition. Quarter final is where both teams will get halted as you have either Spain or Brazil waiting for you (unless an unthinkable upset occurs).

My only concern is how Italy start this tournament. They're notorious slow starters, and this England game has a bore draw written all over it. So what they do against Costa Rica and Uruguay will be crucial

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 5 2014, 01:59 PM

I honestly see Italy winning the thing, but that's just me.


Posted by: han2503 Jun 5 2014, 02:03 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 5 2014, 01:59 PM) *
I honestly see Italy winning the thing, but that's just me.

Nah, I think they have problems in defence and Mario goes too hot and cold to rely on. I personally can't see them getting past Brazil in the quarters if they don't win their group

Btw, what do you think about that line-up I posted? Do you agree with kurt that it's too slow and England's kick and rush players will relish it?

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 5 2014, 02:47 PM

Too slow? How? Besides Pirlo, you've got three hard-working MFs, plus Abate and De Sciglio that offer enough cover, as well as lots of creativity. I think it's a very balanced line-up. Don't know how Verratti will fare as AM, but I can totally see it working.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 5 2014, 03:09 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 5 2014, 02:47 PM) *
Too slow? How? Besides Pirlo, you've got three hard-working MFs, plus Abate and De Sciglio that offer enough cover, as well as lots of creativity. I think it's a very balanced line-up. Don't know how Verratti will fare as AM, but I can totally see it working.

Agreed.

I've been listening a lot to English pundits as of late to try to gouge what the general consensus is about the Italy game.

Obviously they're all wary of it, but their biggest pre-occupation is Pirlo. All they talk about is man-marking Pirlo to not let him get so much of the ball and run the game as he did in 2012. The flaw in that is that they have to get one of their strikers to do it (mentioning Danny Wellbeck atm). And they're also forgetting that Italy have 3 other great mids in there who can be as good or better on the ball than any of their midfielders. Don't know if Prandelli was experimenting yesterday by removing Pirlo from that position to have a plan B if somehow they manage to shackle him, that's what I'm hoping at least.

And I think Verratti can be great there, he's not slow, he's great at making those little incisive passes in tight spaces as well. I don't really get why they compare him to Pirlo, totally different kind of player. The only thing that worries me about them is they tend to like occupying the same areas on the pitch, they were both part of the midfield 3 yesterday and sort of got in each other's way on certain occasions. Having Verratti as the AM would ensure that he won't get in Pirlo's way in that regard

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 5 2014, 03:38 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 5 2014, 11:22 AM) *
Just like it was a huge plus for you in the Euros? wink.gif

Yeah exactly, they couldn't beat us in the Euros so it works for us.

Posted by: Danny Jun 5 2014, 03:51 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 5 2014, 12:59 PM) *
I honestly see Italy winning the thing, but that's just me.


Given the current weakness of Italian players and Serie A in comparison with far stronger teams of the past, this Italy is a pale shadow of teams from years gone by.

Serie A is pretty mediocre and far weaker than so many other of its peer leagues. And that's where the players are all coming from, PSG goalie aside.

I think they will really struggle in this world cup.

I don't mind being proven wrong, I've got well over my hatred of them re: Euro 2008 qualification. Although I will mind being proven wrong if it means I lose my bet ha biggrin.gif

Posted by: han2503 Jun 5 2014, 05:06 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 5 2014, 03:38 PM) *
Yeah exactly, they couldn't beat us in the Euros so it works for us.

laugh.gif laugh.gif

"couldn't beat us" is a quote that speaks for itself and the level of ambition the English have for this game. biggrin.gif

In all seriousness though Italy outclassed England in the Euros and had they advanced it would have been a huge injustice. In all honesty Italy should have won that game in the 90 minutes.

But I don't really get what your initial point was about pace... I'm supposing you meant that Italy's lack of pace would be beneficial for England. But in what way? Since going by your latest comment you don't expect to win, just to not lose

Posted by: han2503 Jun 5 2014, 05:10 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 5 2014, 03:51 PM) *
Given the current weakness of Italian players and Serie A in comparison with far stronger teams of the past, this Italy is a pale shadow of teams from years gone by.

Serie A is pretty mediocre and far weaker than so many other of its peer leagues. And that's where the players are all coming from, PSG goalie aside.

I think they will really struggle in this world cup.

I don't mind being proven wrong, I've got well over my hatred of them re: Euro 2008 qualification. Although I will mind being proven wrong if it means I lose my bet ha biggrin.gif

I really don't think the state of the domestic league has much baring here though, was the league any better in 2012, or even in 2006 when it was already going down hill not to mention all the corruption that had just been revealed?

Personally I think this side is as good as the 2006 one, probably better as a collective because that squad had some real stinkers thanks to Lippi and his obsession with Palermo players

Yes that Italy side had bigger names in defence like Canna, Nesta and Zambro, while Rino was probably in the middle of having 2 of his best seasons. but other than that. Totti and Del Piero were both irrelevant, Totti was a starter but I always saw him as a peripheral figure in the team, there was Camoranesi, Perrotta, Grosso, Gila, Iaquinta, etc all starting regularly in that world cup.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 5 2014, 06:05 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 5 2014, 03:09 PM) *
I don't really get why they compare him to Pirlo, totally different kind of player.


He's the exact same player as Modric. Identical style, identical technique. Italy have a gem in their hands. Definitely gonna become a football great, if he already isn't.

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 5 2014, 03:51 PM) *
Given the current weakness of Italian players and Serie A in comparison with far stronger teams of the past, this Italy is a pale shadow of teams from years gone by.

Serie A is pretty mediocre and far weaker than so many other of its peer leagues. And that's where the players are all coming from, PSG goalie aside.

I think they will really struggle in this world cup.

I don't mind being proven wrong, I've got well over my hatred of them re: Euro 2008 qualification. Although I will mind being proven wrong if it means I lose my bet ha biggrin.gif


Um, like Han said, the quality of the league has really got nothing to do here. England have the best league in the world yet their NT is pretty average currently compared to other powerhouses.

I think Italy have about 14-15 very good players in there, who know each-other well. Their midfield is as good as Germany's and Spain's IMO. I honestly think you're underestimating them.

Posted by: Danny Jun 5 2014, 10:40 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 5 2014, 05:05 PM) *
Um, like Han said, the quality of the league has really got nothing to do here. England have the best league in the world yet their NT is pretty average currently compared to other powerhouses.


Errrr no, England have the most competitive league of the big 3, not the best. Didn't you see how their clubs struggled in ALL European competitions last season?

Spain, now, is the best league, thanks to having 3 titans challenging for the title and a very strong Bilbao.

I've never been fond of Spain on any level but anyone calling the EPL stronger than La Liga currently, is, well, absolutely potty! And I mean that fondly of course smile.gif

QUOTE
I think Italy have about 14-15 very good players in there, who know each-other well. Their midfield is as good as Germany's and Spain's IMO. I honestly think you're underestimating them.


We shall see but I stand by my last 4 prediction. I think Italy are poor and it'll be reflected in their world cup.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 5 2014, 11:03 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 5 2014, 10:40 PM) *
Errrr no, England have the most competitive league of the big 3, not the best. Didn't you see how their clubs struggled in ALL European competitions last season?

Spain, now, is the best league, thanks to having 3 titans challenging for the title and a very strong Bilbao.

I've never been fond of Spain on any level but anyone calling the EPL stronger than La Liga currently, is, well, absolutely potty! And I mean that fondly of course smile.gif

England have had an all English final in the CL, have had 2 teams winning the CL since the last 2 world cups (2006 - now), and always have at least one club representing the league in the semi finals. How is that poor?

Yet in every one of those WCs the English side has just been shameful in their showings imo

Spain has 2 giants and an overall poor league where the other teams struggle to stay financially afloat each year. Atletico had a massive season thanks to their coach who made them a strong unit. But this is a side who has already been picked off of its best players. And that's just 2 or 3 who are really class, the rest are all pretty average who were part of a great collective, once tha collective is picked apart they won't be that great.

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 5 2014, 10:40 PM) *
We shall see but I stand by my last 4 prediction. I think Italy are poor and it'll be reflected in their world cup.

Can you explain how this side is poor?

This is a side that got to the Euro finals 2 years ago, did very well in the confed cup just last summer, went through their group undefeated and qualified with 2 games to spare.

No they don't have the star names Brazil, Spain and Argentina have. I just don't get where that poor tag comes from. But make no mistake, Italy do their best when they're underestimated and derided by the international media, and I seriously hope everyone, especially the English think the same as you do

Posted by: Danny Jun 5 2014, 11:11 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 5 2014, 10:03 PM) *
England have had an all English final in the CL, have had 2 teams winning the CL since the last 2 world cups (2006 - now), and always have at least one club representing the league in the semi finals. How is that poor?


If you can quote my saying the EPL is poor I'll be interested to see it.

QUOTE
Yet in every one of those WCs the English side has just been shameful in their showings imo

Spain has 2 giants and an overall poor league where the other teams struggle to stay financially afloat each year. Atletico had a massive season thanks to their coach who made them a strong unit. But this is a side who has already been picked off of its best players. And that's just 2 or 3 who are really class, the rest are all pretty average who were part of a great collective, once tha collective is picked apart they won't be that great.


I agree, hence the league has become more competitive and the big 2 are now big 3, borderline 4. And you will have noticed I haven't got Spain as a semifinalist.


QUOTE
Can you explain how this side is poor?

This is a side that got to the Euro finals 2 years ago, did very well in the confed cup just last summer, went through their group undefeated and qualified with 2 games to spare.


Got to the Euro finals 2 years ago? What do you mean? As for their group, it was awful. A completely hideous Czech Rep (their great teams are something of the past now) and a rather weak Denmark. Even a half decent team could have won that group with something to spare.

QUOTE
No they don't have the star names Brazil, Spain and Argentina have. I just don't get where that poor tag comes from. But make no mistake, Italy do their best when they're underestimated and derided by the international media, and I seriously hope everyone, especially the English think the same as you do


I don't rate Spain or Argentina any more than I do Italy.

But make no mistake, they'll beat England. Uruguay and Italy will go through from that group.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 5 2014, 11:22 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 5 2014, 06:06 PM) *
laugh.gif laugh.gif

"couldn't beat us" is a quote that speaks for itself and the level of ambition the English have for this game. biggrin.gif

In all seriousness though Italy outclassed England in the Euros and had they advanced it would have been a huge injustice. In all honesty Italy should have won that game in the 90 minutes.

But I don't really get what your initial point was about pace... I'm supposing you meant that Italy's lack of pace would be beneficial for England. But in what way? Since going by your latest comment you don't expect to win, just to not lose

Yeah, but the game was 0-0. Did I say we would win? No. Did I say we would draw? No. I just think a lack of pace certainly helps England. Italy didn't have any pace at the Euros and it helped. They couldn't get in behind, they didn't have players that would run at us. It was shots from distance or them trying to play the ball through our defence and not being able to. I don't really know what you expect me to say. One minute you say Italy are better than England, the next you find it odd I think us not losing is good thing.

As for La Liga, I think it's an average league overall. People make the mistake of judging a league by it's very top teams. We've had about 7 different European Finalists over the past decade or so. Most countries have never had that in their history.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 5 2014, 11:28 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 5 2014, 11:11 PM) *
If you can quote my saying the EPL is poor I'll be interested to see it.

Sorry, that poor comment on Italy was still gnawing at my mind so I wrote it there with regards to my bit on the EPL.

No you didn't say it was poor, but you implied that it was going through a rough patch. My point was that during the last 2 WCs, English teams have been great in Europe but were still absolute pish (as you Scottish laddies would say) in every major tournament they played

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 5 2014, 11:11 PM) *
I agree, hence the league has become more competitive and the big 2 are now big 3, borderline 4. And you will have noticed I haven't got Spain as a semifinalist.

But really, during Spain's last major 3 tournament wins there were only really 2 teams in the thing, Atletico have only really emerged as a force over these past 2 seasons or so and I personally think it will end with this season as them selling their best players now will spell the end of them imo

Sorry, forgot your predictions. Belgium, Brazil, and who were the other 2?

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 5 2014, 11:11 PM) *
Got to the Euro finals 2 years ago? What do you mean? As for their group, it was awful. A completely hideous Czech Rep (their great teams are something of the past now) and a rather weak Denmark. Even a half decent team could have won that group with something to spare.

Euro 2012 runners up was a big achievement imo, especially for a side that no one really touted as a possible challenger. And once they rolled up against Germany were completely written off. I think having a momentum in competitive tournaments is a good indication of how a side will perform imo

And HEY NOW, Malta was in that group!!! mad.gif tongue.gif

But seriously, when are these qualifying groups really that hard? But even the biggest team sometimes still manage to flounder

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 5 2014, 11:11 PM) *
I don't rate Spain or Argentina any more than I do Italy.

Nah, rating Belgium a totally inexperienced side but not Spain or Argentina? I think Spain will still do seriously well, I don't think they'll win it but I can see them in the semis easily. Argentina are a toss up but the talent they have is unquestionable.

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 5 2014, 11:11 PM) *
But make no mistake, they'll beat England. Uruguay and Italy will go through from that group.

lol so we're arguing whether Italy are good or not, but the person who thinks they're poor predicts that they'll beat England and the person who thinks they're good predicts that they won't beat England. What a pair we make biggrin.gif

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 6 2014, 12:14 AM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 5 2014, 11:22 PM) *
As for La Liga, I think it's an average league overall. People make the mistake of judging a league by it's very top teams. We've had about 7 different European Finalists over the past decade or so. Most countries have never had that in their history.


Exactly. Except for Barça and Madrid, the rest are all Europa League level. Atletico doesn't even count cos next season they'll be a former shadow of this season's side. Mark my words. Seasons like this happen only once in a lifetime for clubs like Atletico.

Posted by: Danny Jun 6 2014, 01:39 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 5 2014, 11:14 PM) *
Exactly. Except for Barça and Madrid, the rest are all Europa League level. Atletico doesn't even count cos next season they'll be a former shadow of this season's side. Mark my words. Seasons like this happen only once in a lifetime for clubs like Atletico.


It's only happening to Atletico because Chelsea have just taken their best 4 players! I now agree Atleti are unlikely to sustain this next season simply because no team on earth could cope with their star striker, goalie, midfielder and LB all leaving.

And that's without even mentioning Miranda and Turan who'll probably move too.

Shame, they've become prey to the vultures.

Posted by: Danny Jun 6 2014, 01:49 AM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 5 2014, 10:28 PM) *
Sorry, that poor comment on Italy was still gnawing at my mind so I wrote it there with regards to my bit on the EPL.

No you didn't say it was poor, but you implied that it was going through a rough patch. My point was that during the last 2 WCs, English teams have been great in Europe but were still absolute pish (as you Scottish laddies would say) in every major tournament they played


Mainly because the EPL and its best teams don't rely on English players. The last two sides to win CL from England, Utd and Chelsea, relied on Ronaldo and Drogba. Whereas Barca and Atleti/Real relied on their Spanish core and Bayern on their German.

The English squad, while not abominable, is so far off what it's been in the even recent past it's almost sad to see. I look at that squad and it is just so below even an England team from a decade ago.

QUOTE
But really, during Spain's last major 3 tournament wins there were only really 2 teams in the thing, Atletico have only really emerged as a force over these past 2 seasons or so and I personally think it will end with this season as them selling their best players now will spell the end of them imo

Sorry, forgot your predictions. Belgium, Brazil, and who were the other 2?


Germany and Uruguay. Stand to pocket £750 if I'm right!

QUOTE
Euro 2012 runners up was a big achievement imo, especially for a side that no one really touted as a possible challenger. And once they rolled up against Germany were completely written off. I think having a momentum in competitive tournaments is a good indication of how a side will perform imo


Germany ALWAYS make the semis in pretty much every tournament, and I agree that Italy did very well to make that final. Just think other nations are even stronger today and by Italy's normal standards their current team isn't really that special.

QUOTE
And HEY NOW, Malta was in that group!!! mad.gif tongue.gif

But seriously, when are these qualifying groups really that hard? But even the biggest team sometimes still manage to flounder


All true but don't use an unbeaten record as evidence of a team's strength smile.gif

QUOTE
Nah, rating Belgium a totally inexperienced side but not Spain or Argentina? I think Spain will still do seriously well, I don't think they'll win it but I can see them in the semis easily. Argentina are a toss up but the talent they have is unquestionable.


Spain were inexperienced in 2008 wink.gif

Belgium are very very strong and I think they can do real damage in this tournament.

QUOTE
lol so we're arguing whether Italy are good or not, but the person who thinks they're poor predicts that they'll beat England and the person who thinks they're good predicts that they won't beat England. What a pair we make biggrin.gif


Beats arguing over Milan biggrin.gif

Posted by: han2503 Jun 6 2014, 09:28 AM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 5 2014, 11:22 PM) *
Yeah, but the game was 0-0. Did I say we would win? No. Did I say we would draw? No. I just think a lack of pace certainly helps England. Italy didn't have any pace at the Euros and it helped. They couldn't get in behind, they didn't have players that would run at us. It was shots from distance or them trying to play the ball through our defence and not being able to. I don't really know what you expect me to say. One minute you say Italy are better than England, the next you find it odd I think us not losing is good thing.

As for La Liga, I think it's an average league overall. People make the mistake of judging a league by it's very top teams. We've had about 7 different European Finalists over the past decade or so. Most countries have never had that in their history.

I was just making a sort of joke because your expectations are to not lose rather than to win.

With regards to the game in 2012, Italy had a bag of chances, not to mention hitting the post once or twice. Plus, I think that England defence was better than this one imo. John Terry and Ashley Cole imo still should be in there as they're better defenders (note my enphasis on defenders) than Baines and Jagielka (did I spell that correctly?). Not to mention that in the Euros Hodgson was basically playing to lines of defence. Young was more pre-occupied with covering Abate's runs than actually trying to do anything attack-wise for example, I don't really think England's new, young and exciting (as per the advertising done by the English pundits) players will really want to put in all that work. Yes, they're trying to go in the Liverpool direction but there was one big flaw with Liverpool this season, their defending was absolutely horrible.

Agreed on that 2nd bit about La Liga and the EPL

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 6 2014, 01:49 AM) *
Mainly because the EPL and its best teams don't rely on English players. The last two sides to win CL from England, Utd and Chelsea, relied on Ronaldo and Drogba. Whereas Barca and Atleti/Real relied on their Spanish core and Bayern on their German.

The English squad, while not abominable, is so far off what it's been in the even recent past it's almost sad to see. I look at that squad and it is just so below even an England team from a decade ago.

True, but it's also true that most of the English players were also important parts of those squads that won the CL.

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 6 2014, 01:49 AM) *
Germany and Uruguay. Stand to pocket £750 if I'm right!

Hope you don't win! I want Italy in there biggrin.gif tongue.gif

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 6 2014, 01:49 AM) *
Germany ALWAYS make the semis in pretty much every tournament, and I agree that Italy did very well to make that final. Just think other nations are even stronger today and by Italy's normal standards their current team isn't really that special.

But as I mentioned before it's not really all about the names, it's how the team gels and works together. Italy in 06 were far from the best team in that tournament. the 2002 squad were miles ahead of that 06 one and this current one imo.

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 6 2014, 01:49 AM) *
All true but don't use an unbeaten record as evidence of a team's strength smile.gif

I still think it's an important factor, not to mention that Prandelli has only had 2 losses in competitive games throughout his tenure as coach of the NT

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 6 2014, 01:49 AM) *
Spain were inexperienced in 2008 wink.gif

Belgium are very very strong and I think they can do real damage in this tournament.

I don't think they had as much young raw talent as Belgium currently do, most of their players were established and were winning CLs with their club. But agree that in 2008 they were considered a team of underachievers and really banished that stereotype

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 6 2014, 01:49 AM) *
Beats arguing over Milan biggrin.gif

It sure does biggrin.gif

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 6 2014, 10:00 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 6 2014, 01:39 AM) *
It's only happening to Atletico because Chelsea have just taken their best 4 players! I now agree Atleti are unlikely to sustain this next season simply because no team on earth could cope with their star striker, goalie, midfielder and LB all leaving.

And that's without even mentioning Miranda and Turan who'll probably move too.

Shame, they've become prey to the vultures.


Even if they don't sell anyone it still wouldn't matter. When a club overachieves one season, the next season players are drained of motivation and energy, morally and physically. Milan in 2007 and Inter in 2010 are prime examples of that.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 6 2014, 01:25 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 6 2014, 10:28 AM) *
I was just making a sort of joke because your expectations are to not lose rather than to win.

Fair enough. I have to be honest and realistic about expectations though. To me, it would be a successful World Cup if we make the round of 16. Ro16 isn't special, but it would be a big achievement to get out of that group.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 6 2014, 02:19 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 6 2014, 01:25 PM) *
Fair enough. I have to be honest and realistic about expectations though. To me, it would be a successful World Cup if we make the round of 16. Ro16 isn't special, but it would be a big achievement to get out of that group.

I personally think both England and Italy will qualify. That first game will obviously be a draw but I think both teams can do well against the South Americans, Especially if Suarez isn't fit and Cavani is in his PSG form

Whoever gets out of this group will get to the quarters imo unless they f@ck up big time in the round of 16 against a team from group C

Posted by: Danny Jun 6 2014, 02:55 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 6 2014, 09:00 AM) *
Even if they don't sell anyone it still wouldn't matter. When a club overachieves one season, the next season players are drained of motivation and energy, morally and physically. Milan in 2007 and Inter in 2010 are prime examples of that.


Inter in 2010 lost their manager. Jose (and his PtB tactic) is why they were so good. Nothing else.

Milan squeezed the last iota out of an aging world class squad and rested on their laurels, and did the same again in 2011 after Scudetto.

But Atleti are a young world class team filled with superb ethics and great tactics. Well...they WERE...

I just don't think Atleti overachieved. After all, did the 'overachieving' Borussia side who made the CL final in 2013 come close to winning the Bundesliga that season? No...they were 30 points behind Bayern!

Posted by: han2503 Jun 6 2014, 03:15 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 6 2014, 02:55 PM) *
Inter in 2010 lost their manager. Jose (and his PtB tactic) is why they were so good. Nothing else.

Milan squeezed the last iota out of an aging world class squad and rested on their laurels, and did the same again in 2011 after Scudetto.

But Atleti are a young world class team filled with superb ethics and great tactics. Well...they WERE...

I just don't think Atleti overachieved. After all, did the 'overachieving' Borussia side who made the CL final in 2013 come close to winning the Bundesliga that season? No...they were 30 points behind Bayern!

How long do you think it will take before Atleti lose their coach as well?

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 6 2014, 04:13 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 6 2014, 02:55 PM) *
Inter in 2010 lost their manager. Jose (and his PtB tactic) is why they were so good. Nothing else.

Milan squeezed the last iota out of an aging world class squad and rested on their laurels, and did the same again in 2011 after Scudetto.

But Atleti are a young world class team filled with superb ethics and great tactics. Well...they WERE...

I just don't think Atleti overachieved. After all, did the 'overachieving' Borussia side who made the CL final in 2013 come close to winning the Bundesliga that season? No...they were 30 points behind Bayern!


They lost their coach and suddenly they're losing 5-2 to Schalke like a Sunday league football club? Nah... They had all their players sans Balotelli, but you could clearly see that they were drained of any energy and motivations.

And no, I don't consider Dortmund overachieving because they have a fantastic team. They won the Bundesliga twice in a row, then made the CL final displaying some fantastic football. This season they suffered from a vast string of injuries that decimated their team and made it quite difficult to compete at all fronts (even though they nearly KO'd Madrid in the process).

Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Jun 6 2014, 05:26 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 6 2014, 02:25 PM) *
Fair enough. I have to be honest and realistic about expectations though. To me, it would be a successful World Cup if we make the round of 16. Ro16 isn't special, but it would be a big achievement to get out of that group.

You're damned if you have realistic expectations & you're damned if you want them to do well.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 6 2014, 06:03 PM

QUOTE (Milan Are Brilliant @ Jun 6 2014, 05:26 PM) *
You're damned if you have realistic expectations & you're damned if you want them to do well.

The thing is, it feels like England pundits and the majority of fans are continually trying to play down their chances, but underneath the surface you can almost feel like that constant need they have to restrict themselves from overhyping their team, their young talent (they're sill doing this a lot anyway).

So it mostly feels like they're fake trying to underplay everything when it comes to England atm, but you know that underneath all that there's that English reporter just screaming on the inside to stir things up, declare them as world beaters and then start rubbing his hands gleefully at the prospect bashing and slamming them down when they return home as quarter finalists once again

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 6 2014, 06:03 PM

Ribery out of the WC.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 6 2014, 06:07 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 6 2014, 06:03 PM) *
Ribery out of the WC.

Falcao, Ribery...................... Oxlade Chamberlain

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 6 2014, 07:04 PM

First 2 are, in my opinion, hilariously overrated players.

Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Jun 6 2014, 07:41 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 6 2014, 07:03 PM) *
The thing is, it feels like England pundits and the majority of fans are continually trying to play down their chances, but underneath the surface you can almost feel like that constant need they have to restrict themselves from overhyping their team, their young talent (they're sill doing this a lot anyway).

So it mostly feels like they're fake trying to underplay everything when it comes to England atm, but you know that underneath all that there's that English reporter just screaming on the inside to stir things up, declare them as world beaters and then start rubbing his hands gleefully at the prospect bashing and slamming them down when they return home as quarter finalists once again

What can we actually say? Saying we can get out of a pretty tough group is a realistic expectation for this team, however that's apparently downplaying. Yet should anyone suggest they could do more than that are overrating them and calling them World Beaters?

I have no idea what we're even meant to say without being criticised & people thinking there's some pre-agenda laugh.gif

---

Also, agreed on Ribery, almost never turns up in big games.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 6 2014, 08:00 PM

Agreed about Ribery as well. One of the most overrated players currently playing.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 6 2014, 08:03 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 6 2014, 07:04 PM) *
First 2 are, in my opinion, hilariously overrated players.

Don't think Falcoa is overrated in any way, Ribery, yes

QUOTE (Milan Are Brilliant @ Jun 6 2014, 07:41 PM) *
What can we actually say? Saying we can get out of a pretty tough group is a realistic expectation for this team, however that's apparently downplaying. Yet should anyone suggest they could do more than that are overrating them and calling them World Beaters?

I have no idea what we're even meant to say without being criticised & people thinking there's some pre-agenda laugh.gif

---

Also, agreed on Ribery, almost never turns up in big games.

The problem is that it's your own media that will feast on the leftovers the most gleefully, which I find relatively hilarious.

Like I said above, I expect England to qualify, some of the things I read and listened to were even trying to downplay that possibility.

Every time I read something about England they're making a point of mentioning how the team is going into their first tournament in a while without all the hype. Imo they're hyping the young players the most, and if they fail to show up I'd hate to think the reception they'll get

Posted by: acid911 Jun 6 2014, 08:20 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 7 2014, 01:03 AM) *
Like I said above, I expect England to qualify, some of the things I read and listened to were even trying to downplay that possibility.

Only one will. sleep.gif England lose against Italy, they are out, they draw they are out, they win, Italy is out. I am fairly confident that beating Uruguay in their continent is going to be tough for both teams. They have the most world titles for a reason. All relatively safe guesses, of course, but I feel that only one of Italy or England will move ahead.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 6 2014, 09:36 PM

Yeah Uruguay are essentially at home, that's why I think they'll go through.

Reus hurt tonight, his World Cup in doubt.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 6 2014, 09:53 PM

QUOTE (acid911 @ Jun 6 2014, 08:20 PM) *
Only one will. sleep.gif England lose against Italy, they are out, they draw they are out, they win, Italy is out. I am fairly confident that beating Uruguay in their continent is going to be tough for both teams. They have the most world titles for a reason. All relatively safe guesses, of course, but I feel that only one of Italy or England will move ahead.

A draw wouldn't be the end of the world for either team imo, and I have a sneaking suspicion that that's what they'll aim for.

But if either team wins that opener... Yeah, whoever loses is most likely out of this before its even started

Still, my prediction is England and Italy to qualify. Simply cannot stand Uruguay, even more than England, and that's saying something

Posted by: Danny Jun 6 2014, 10:43 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 6 2014, 03:13 PM) *
They lost their coach and suddenly they're losing 5-2 to Schalke like a Sunday league football club? Nah... They had all their players sans Balotelli, but you could clearly see that they were drained of any energy and motivations.

And no, I don't consider Dortmund overachieving because they have a fantastic team. They won the Bundesliga twice in a row, then made the CL final displaying some fantastic football. This season they suffered from a vast string of injuries that decimated their team and made it quite difficult to compete at all fronts (even though they nearly KO'd Madrid in the process).


Must say I feel you just totally ignored everything I just said tongue.gif

Posted by: Danny Jun 6 2014, 10:44 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 6 2014, 02:15 PM) *
How long do you think it will take before Atleti lose their coach as well?


Agreed - I think Simeone will move. If they'd won CL I think he'd have stayed but now with the team being decimated I think he will be attracted by a big-money move to some rich team. Probably in Russia.

I'd love him at Milan but that's not happening.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 6 2014, 11:04 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 6 2014, 10:44 PM) *
Agreed - I think Simeone will move. If they'd won CL I think he'd have stayed but now with the team being decimated I think he will be attracted by a big-money move to some rich team. Probably in Russia.

I'd love him at Milan but that's not happening.

I personally wouldn't

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 6 2014, 11:13 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 6 2014, 10:43 PM) *
Must say I feel you just totally ignored everything I just said tongue.gif


No, I honestly don't think I did.

Posted by: Danny Jun 6 2014, 11:18 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 6 2014, 10:13 PM) *
No, I honestly don't think I did.


Your rebuttal was very weak then and filled with conjecture. And I think we can leave it there.

Posted by: Danny Jun 6 2014, 11:19 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 6 2014, 10:04 PM) *
I personally wouldn't


He's arguably the best tactician around right now. Indeed, the only mistakes I saw him make were in the final. And I knew what he was trying to do, it just wasn't good enough.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 7 2014, 12:42 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 6 2014, 11:18 PM) *
Your rebuttal was very weak then and filled with conjecture. And I think we can leave it there.


Nah, that's just you not wanting to be proved wrong. Conjecture? What conjecture? C'mon now, Danny... smile.gif

Posted by: Danny Jun 7 2014, 01:15 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 6 2014, 11:42 PM) *
Nah, that's just you not wanting to be proved wrong. Conjecture? What conjecture? C'mon now, Danny... smile.gif


Got no issue being proven wrong, but you didn't do so. To humour you though...I will reply.

Posted by: Danny Jun 7 2014, 01:26 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 6 2014, 03:13 PM) *
They lost their coach and suddenly they're losing 5-2 to Schalke like a Sunday league football club?


Yup. That was the kind of shoddy result they had under Zacherroni, Mancini, Benitez...
That often happens when a great team loses its marquee manager.

QUOTE
Nah... They had all their players sans Balotelli, but you could clearly see that they were drained of any energy and motivations.


Because Jose left and was replaced by infamously poor Benitez who couldn't handle domestic football outwith Spain.

QUOTE
And no, I don't consider Dortmund overachieving because they have a fantastic team. They won the Bundesliga twice in a row, then made the CL final displaying some fantastic football. This season they suffered from a vast string of injuries that decimated their team and made it quite difficult to compete at all fronts (even though they nearly KO'd Madrid in the process).


No, I was referring to the season before this one where they made the CL final but were MILLLLLLLLLLLLES off Bayern in the league - 30 - points behind.

This season, without Goetze especially, they really struggled - nowhere near the same force in CL albeit still about the same in the league.

But the point is about Atleti - how have they overachieved? You say Dortmund 'have' a fantastic team. Does this mean Atleti don't?

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 7 2014, 01:51 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 7 2014, 01:26 AM) *
Yup. That was the kind of shoddy result they had under Zacherroni, Mancini, Benitez...
That often happens when a great team loses its marquee manager.


Why are you even mentioning Zaccheroni? We're obviously talking about post-Calciopoli Inter here, when they grounded themselves as a local powerhouse. Before Mourinho took over they had two excellent seasons under Mancini. Granted, they failed in Europe, but so did Mourinho in his first season with them.

I'm not saying Mourinho's departure didn't have any effects on the team, but the players couldn't handle another season at extreme levels after giving their 110% in the prior one. In fact, that's why I think Mourinho left in the first place. He sniffed the inevitable deterioration and decided to leave as a winner.

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 7 2014, 01:26 AM) *
Because Jose left and was replaced by infamously poor Benitez who couldn't handle domestic football outwith Spain.


Or maybe because the players didn't want Benitez? Yeah, remember those phone calls between Mourinho and the senators? Another aspect to take into consideration.

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 7 2014, 01:26 AM) *
No, I was referring to the season before this one where they made the CL final but were MILLLLLLLLLLLLES off Bayern in the league - 30 - points behind.

This season, without Goetze especially, they really struggled - nowhere near the same force in CL albeit still about the same in the league.


Klopp made it pretty clear that that season they were going to focus on the CL after coming from two consecutive league titles. So, that 30-point gap isn't such a shock.

And yes, this season they did struggle, but you yet fail to take into account the many, many injuries that plagued the team. Anyone who watches the Bundesliga can confirm this.

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 7 2014, 01:26 AM) *
But the point is about Atleti - how have they overachieved? You say Dortmund 'have' a fantastic team. Does this mean Atleti don't?


No, I don't think they do. Atletico's primary and only strength is the collective and discipline. They have very average players and play some boring and unattractive football, unlike Dortmund who have great players in every role and are a feast to watch. Plus Dortmund have been much more consistent than Atletico overall.

Posted by: Ry4n Jun 7 2014, 04:02 AM

England don't have group from hell , Italy are on a dire run, Uruguay are shaky and Costa Rica should be beaten... but here are my predictions !

England vs Italy 1-1 or 2-1 to either side.

England vs Uruguay 2-2

England vs Costa rica 3-0

With englands defence we will concede goals we're just going to have to outscore them.

We could make it past the group stage anything more is a bonus , its all well and good the players have the mentality we are in it to win it , its good for the morale of the England camp. But as an england supporter i'm tired of putting so much pressure on them going there to win it , its just better to have lower expectations...

or we could just put on this track http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqimlFcJsM

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jun 7 2014, 08:12 AM

I don't know, I think this group is pretty much unpredictable.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 7 2014, 08:58 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 6 2014, 11:19 PM) *
He's arguably the best tactician around right now. Indeed, the only mistakes I saw him make were in the final. And I knew what he was trying to do, it just wasn't good enough.

It's not just about the tactical mistakes in the final. How he behaved was absolutely disgusting imo. I really can't stand the guy

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jun 7 2014, 08:12 AM) *
I don't know, I think this group is pretty much unpredictable.

What would be your predictions though Fillipo?

Posted by: Danny Jun 7 2014, 09:26 AM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 7 2014, 07:58 AM) *
It's not just about the tactical mistakes in the final. How he behaved was absolutely disgusting imo. I really can't stand the guy


tbh he can urinate all over the ref and gesture obscene insults to the fourth official and opposition fans if he wants, I don't really care.

We need success, not 'dignity'. Of course this is a different thing to the hierarchy mistreating our current manager.

Posted by: Danny Jun 7 2014, 09:26 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 7 2014, 12:51 AM) *
Why are you even mentioning Zaccheroni? We're obviously talking about post-Calciopoli Inter here, when they grounded themselves as a local powerhouse. Before Mourinho took over they had two excellent seasons under Mancini. Granted, they failed in Europe, but so did Mourinho in his first season with them.

I'm not saying Mourinho's departure didn't have any effects on the team, but the players couldn't handle another season at extreme levels after giving their 110% in the prior one. In fact, that's why I think Mourinho left in the first place. He sniffed the inevitable deterioration and decided to leave as a winner.



Or maybe because the players didn't want Benitez? Yeah, remember those phone calls between Mourinho and the senators? Another aspect to take into consideration.



Klopp made it pretty clear that that season they were going to focus on the CL after coming from two consecutive league titles. So, that 30-point gap isn't such a shock.

And yes, this season they did struggle, but you yet fail to take into account the many, many injuries that plagued the team. Anyone who watches the Bundesliga can confirm this.



No, I don't think they do. Atletico's primary and only strength is the collective and discipline. They have very average players and play some boring and unattractive football, unlike Dortmund who have great players in every role and are a feast to watch. Plus Dortmund have been much more consistent than Atletico overall.


...so this proves me wrong? Ok...and breathe smile.gif

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 7 2014, 10:04 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 7 2014, 09:26 AM) *
...so this proves me wrong? Ok...and breathe smile.gif


It tells you that you shouldn't treat someone's opinion which you disagree with as conjecture. wink.gif

Posted by: Danny Jun 7 2014, 10:57 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 7 2014, 09:04 AM) *
It tells you that you shouldn't treat someone's opinion which you disagree with as conjecture. wink.gif


Most opinion is conjecture. We base our views on our perceived facts, and use hyperbole, exaggeration, emotion and rhetoric to espouse them. Our opinions are caked in our own values - of course they're conjecture. Basic semantics wink.gif

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 7 2014, 11:51 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 7 2014, 10:57 AM) *
Most opinion is conjecture. We base our views on our perceived facts, and use hyperbole, exaggeration, emotion and rhetoric to espouse them. Our opinions are caked in our own values - of course they're conjecture. Basic semantics wink.gif


Not if an opinion is based on verifiable data, though. That doesn't make it conjecture. But that's besides the point.

You've disregarded my arguments as weak in the last two pages, even though I've perfectly explained my stance with all the necessary information in order to give it enough credibility. I never intended to prove you wrong, but it seemed to me that you didn't want to be proved wrong, which is different. Instead of acting like a wiseass, you could have simply argued back, or just agreed to disagree and move on.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 7 2014, 11:56 AM

Reus out of the WC as well. sad.gif

Posted by: Danny Jun 7 2014, 02:20 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 7 2014, 10:51 AM) *
Not if an opinion is based on verifiable data, though. That doesn't make it conjecture.


Yes it does. If I say I think Ronaldo is the world's best player, I've based it on what I believe are verified data. But it's still just my bloody opinion and Messi fans will disagree.

QUOTE
But that's besides the point.

You've disregarded my arguments as weak in the last two pages,


One post. I dismissed one post. Stop over reacting!

QUOTE
even though I've perfectly explained my stance with all the necessary information in order to give it enough credibility.


You didn't though, your response didn't make your case any stronger, it only showed the weaknesses in your argument.
Saying that Inter lost 5-2 to Schalke or whoever didn't prove anything. It was pure conjecture.

QUOTE
I never intended to prove you wrong, but it seemed to me that you didn't want to be proved wrong, which is different. Instead of acting like a wiseass, you could have simply argued back, or just agreed to disagree and move on.


Ah this forum needs its wiseasses smile.gif (PS I did agree to disagree and move on, you're the one who wouldn't let it go because I called your opinion conjecture, wiseass tongue.gif)

Posted by: Danny Jun 7 2014, 02:21 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 7 2014, 10:56 AM) *
Reus out of the WC as well. sad.gif


I find these friendlies more damaging than good. Monto and Reus needlessly out of the world cup now.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 7 2014, 04:26 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 7 2014, 02:20 PM) *
Yes it does. If I say I think Ronaldo is the world's best player, I've based it on what I believe are verified data. But it's still just my bloody opinion and Messi fans will disagree.


I'm not a native English speaker, but isn't conjecture "an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information"? If I say Seedorf will be fired because he didn’t have good relations with the players, that’s conjecture because we don’t know exactly what’s happened there except for a few rumors we’ve read. But if I say Milan is the most successful club in football history, I’m basing my opinion on facts, i.e history, trophies, players etc. This doesn’t mean my opinion is absolute, because we can’t say for sure what constitutes the basis for “most successful club in football history”, but nevertheless, depending on how you look at it, that doesn't make it wrong either.

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 7 2014, 02:20 PM) *
One post. I dismissed one post. Stop over reacting!


It’s not about one specific comment, it’s about how you’ve been reacting to my posts in general.

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 7 2014, 02:20 PM) *
You didn't though, your response didn't make your case any stronger, it only showed the weaknesses in your argument.
Saying that Inter lost 5-2 to Schalke or whoever didn't prove anything. It was pure conjecture.


That was just one example! But then again, isn’t you saying Inter crumbled because they lost Mourinho conjecture as well? How does that make your argument stronger than mine?

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 7 2014, 02:20 PM) *
I did agree to disagree and move on, you're the one who wouldn't let it go because I called your opinion conjecture, wiseass tongue.gif


Yes, after calling my arguments weak, and that I apparently ignore what you say when I reply to your posts. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Danny Jun 7 2014, 09:07 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 7 2014, 03:26 PM) *
I'm not a native English speaker, but isn't conjecture "an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information"? If I say Seedorf will be fired because he didn’t have good relations with the players, that’s conjecture because we don’t know exactly what’s happened there except for a few rumors we’ve read. But if I say Milan is the most successful club in football history, I’m basing my opinion on facts, i.e history, trophies, players etc. This doesn’t mean my opinion is absolute, because we can’t say for sure what constitutes the basis for “most successful club in football history”, but nevertheless, depending on how you look at it, that doesn't make it wrong either.


If you say Milan is the most successful club in football history, it's a misleading statement. Domestic trophies wise it's Rangers, Europe-wise it's Milan.

However, saying Rangers or Milan are the most succesfull club in football history, in those respective areas, is not an opinion any more than saying the sun is yellow.

I accept you're not a native English speaker though, and this may account for some of the misunderstandings in this thread.

QUOTE
It’s not about one specific comment, it’s about how you’ve been reacting to my posts in general.


You're seeing something which isn't there. We may have had an axe to grind once upon a time but I have not been deliberately 'reacting' to your posts in any incendiary way. If you can show me where you feel I have, this instance aside, I'll gladly try to reassure you I'm not dismissing you.

QUOTE
That was just one example! But then again, isn’t you saying Inter crumbled because they lost Mourinho conjecture as well? How does that make your argument stronger than mine?


Yes, I explained that all opinion is conjecture. Including my own. But to ignore Mourinho's departure as a cause of Inter's decline from 2010 onwards just seems baseless. I mean you probably are right that these players weren't motivated. But that's because players will run through walls for Mourinho but give far less respect to Benitez.

QUOTE
Yes, after calling my arguments weak, and that I apparently ignore what you say when I reply to your posts. rolleyes.gif


One post X, let's not go plural. And as I say, I'd rather we clarify where you feel I've offended you because I'm otherwise in the dark. I have no desire to fall out over misunderstandings.

PS: calling someone's arguments weak is not an insult, it's an observation/opinion. Mine are not always watertight either. Nothing to be offended about.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 7 2014, 11:01 PM

Like I said, first you claim that I apparently ignore what you say when I reply to your posts, then you call my arguments weak and conjecture and not worth arguing over, and then you make a smug remark when I tried making my initial claims more factual.

But whatever, let's just move on cos this is getting silly.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 7 2014, 11:22 PM

Currently watching the England friendly.

Have to say, not impressed. Some nice combos in attack between Lallana, Sturridge and Rooney. But some of the defending and back passing going on atm is shocking imo.

It seems like they're trying SO HARD to continually try to pass the ball around at a quick pace but they're mostly getting themselves in trouble

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jun 8 2014, 12:17 AM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 7 2014, 10:58 AM) *
What would be your predictions though Fillipo?

My prediction? It's really hard. Obviously Costa Rica is the outsider, but you never know. England, Italy and Uruguay are all very unpredictable: good teams but all of them lack something. Uruguay is getting a bit old and predictable, I think their cohesion got lost as well. England and Italy have potential to become good or even make a surprise, but no true quality other then 3-4 max. players. So my prediction would be goal difference will decide between England and Uruguay about 2nd, first goes to Italy.

Posted by: Danny Jun 8 2014, 12:39 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 7 2014, 10:01 PM) *
Like I said, first you claim that I apparently ignore what you say when I reply to your posts, then you call my arguments weak and conjecture and not worth arguing over, and then you make a smug remark when I tried making my initial claims more factual.

But whatever, let's just move on cos this is getting silly.


Think you took me a little too sensitively, but I apologise for any offence caused. Comments online can come across as w*nkier (as us Brits say) than they're really meant.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 8 2014, 03:13 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 8 2014, 12:22 AM) *
Currently watching the England friendly.

Have to say, not impressed. Some nice combos in attack between Lallana, Sturridge and Rooney. But some of the defending and back passing going on atm is shocking imo.

It seems like they're trying SO HARD to continually try to pass the ball around at a quick pace but they're mostly getting themselves in trouble

It's really a sad state when somebody as awful as Glenn Johnson has to play because there's literally no other right bac in the squad. laugh.gif

Last night I'm just happy we got out of it injury free. Our opponents went out to hurt our players IMO.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 8 2014, 04:00 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 8 2014, 03:13 PM) *
It's really a sad state when somebody as awful as Glenn Johnson has to play because there's literally no other right bac in the squad. laugh.gif

Last night I'm just happy we got out of it injury free. Our opponents went out to hurt our players IMO.

Yeah, Honduras were appalling imo

With regards to the defence, I wasn't just talking about Johnson. Yes he was bad, but so were Cahill and Jagielka. Some of the errors they made were just amateurish, especially in terms of the back passes, they were constantly putting Hart under pressure. I think I counted 4 or 5 times just in that first half that Hart had to kick the ball directly into touch because the pass back was dangerous.

Also, which other player would you have called up aside from Johnson for that position?

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 8 2014, 04:41 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 8 2014, 05:00 PM) *
Also, which other player would you have called up aside from Johnson for that position?

I'd have taken Ashley Cole and started Luke Shaw on the right. The difference between right back and left back is massively overstated IMO. In attack, yeah, the difference is big. Defensively? Not so much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Q85W2Of7s laugh.gif

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 8 2014, 05:42 PM

Who the F is Jagielka? Granted I don't follow the PL, but at least you'd think I should have heard or read his name before. Is he gonna be England's starting CB?

Posted by: Danny Jun 8 2014, 05:59 PM

Yes, plays for Everton. With Terry out of favour at national level he partners Cahill instead. And he's not exactly Terry, frankly.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 8 2014, 07:20 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 8 2014, 04:41 PM) *
I'd have taken Ashley Cole and started Luke Shaw on the right. The difference between right back and left back is massively overstated IMO. In attack, yeah, the difference is big. Defensively? Not so much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Q85W2Of7s laugh.gif

I personally think it makes a bit of difference, especially if the player is not really used to it

Anyway, I once heard the BBC pundits after the S. Africa exit to Germany trying to make a case for Terry and the other CB who started that day (was it Upson?) because Terry had to switch to a side he wasn't used to. I mean, for a FB you can make a case, but for a CB. I think that's stretching the excuse a bit too far.

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 8 2014, 05:59 PM) *
Yes, plays for Everton. With Terry out of favour at national level he partners Cahill instead. And he's not exactly Terry, frankly.

Imo, the only really good player in that England backline is Cahill. Baines and Johnson are good attacking FBs but seem to forget that their roles entail more than just attacking.

Jagielka, when I've watching him with England so far hasn't impressed me. I'm not going to pretend I watch him every week at Everton, because frankly, I've probably only watched one Everton game this season, so I can't say what his true quality is, or if he's just not yet gelled in the England set-up as of yet.

For me England made a mistake in leaving Cole and Terry out. First off, you have that familiarity of having 3/4 of the Chelsea back-line in there, a very solid one imo. It's like if Prandelli would leave out the Juve CBs, just doesn't make any sense.

Posted by: Ry4n Jun 8 2014, 07:59 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 8 2014, 11:20 PM) *
I personally think it makes a bit of difference, especially if the player is not really used to it

Anyway, I once heard the BBC pundits after the S. Africa exit to Germany trying to make a case for Terry and the other CB who started that day (was it Upson?) because Terry had to switch to a side he wasn't used to. I mean, for a FB you can make a case, but for a CB. I think that's stretching the excuse a bit too far.


Imo, the only really good player in that England backline is Cahill. Baines and Johnson are good attacking FBs but seem to forget that their roles entail more than just attacking.

Jagielka, when I've watching him with England so far hasn't impressed me. I'm not going to pretend I watch him every week at Everton, because frankly, I've probably only watched one Everton game this season, so I can't say what his true quality is, or if he's just not yet gelled in the England set-up as of yet.

For me England made a mistake in leaving Cole and Terry out. First off, you have that familiarity of having 3/4 of the Chelsea back-line in there, a very solid one imo. It's like if Prandelli would leave out the Juve CBs, just doesn't make any sense.

I agree with you on johnson his defence is really not as good as his attack , Baines on the other hand i disagree.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 8 2014, 07:59 PM

Terry was left out as well? Wow, Hodgson deserves a good kick in the balls.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 8 2014, 09:01 PM

QUOTE (Ry4n @ Jun 8 2014, 07:59 PM) *
I agree with you on johnson his defence is really not as good as his attack , Baines on the other hand i disagree.

I haven't seen anything from him as of yet that would indicate otherwise tbh. He's pretty great going forward, but in terms of defending I'm not completely sold on him

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 8 2014, 07:59 PM) *
Terry was left out as well? Wow, Hodgson deserves a good kick in the balls.

Yep. You know, the English players and Hodgson continually point out that this new bunch of players are better than the group he had in 2012.

I agree to an extent that they have more talent upfront, but in terms of the defence, I think they took about 5 steps back without Terry and Cole

Posted by: Danny Jun 8 2014, 09:25 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 8 2014, 06:59 PM) *
Terry was left out as well? Wow, Hodgson deserves a good kick in the balls.


Terry and the FA are enemies in light of various rows over the years. Rodgson just buckled to them.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 8 2014, 11:30 PM

I don't think I've ever said this before, but Immobile... WOW! I'm guilty of writing him off a bit, but he's ice cold in front of goal. I think he'll be a first choice in this WC. Just chuck him in there with Balo in front of that midfield of creators and let them have at it.

The defending from Italy was atrocious. But then again, Palletta and Ranocchia started. While Perin made his very own howler

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 9 2014, 01:18 PM

Terry retired from International football and rightfully so. He was found innocent at court, then the FA held their own inquiry and found him guilty, quite literally taking the law into their own hands. After this witch hunt, Terry refused to play again. A Cahill-Terry CB combo would've been amazing too.

Baines is a very good defender, maybe not Ashley Cole level but still very good. He and Cahill don't worry me, Johnson and to n extent Jagielka do.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 9 2014, 01:19 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlJEt2KU33I

This is really great.

Posted by: milanbuf88 Jun 9 2014, 04:20 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 9 2014, 09:19 AM) *
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlJEt2KU33I

This is really great.


Fantastic piece. John Oliver has been on fire with his new show.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 9 2014, 11:21 PM

That was really great indeed.

Posted by: Danny Jun 10 2014, 12:31 AM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 9 2014, 12:19 PM) *
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlJEt2KU33I

This is really great.


That really was rather good.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 10 2014, 01:17 AM

People from Birmingham know their stuff. wink.gif

Posted by: Jack Bauer Jun 10 2014, 01:35 AM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 9 2014, 04:19 PM) *
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlJEt2KU33I

This is really great.


Posted by: dst Jun 10 2014, 10:51 AM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 9 2014, 03:18 PM) *
Terry retired from International football and rightfully so. He was found innocent at court, then the FA held their own inquiry and found him guilty, quite literally taking the law into their own hands. After this witch hunt, Terry refused to play again. A Cahill-Terry CB combo would've been amazing too.

I understand why Terry decided to retire after this but how do you know the civil court was right and FA was wrong?

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 9 2014, 03:19 PM) *
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlJEt2KU33I

This is really great.

I just watched that and came here to post it. I didn't know of this guy before this show but I'm glad I do now, it's great!

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 10 2014, 10:57 AM

QUOTE (dst @ Jun 10 2014, 11:51 AM) *
I understand why Terry decided to retire after this but how do you know the civil court was right and FA was wrong?

I think it's pretty irrelevant in a way. When you go to court and have experts try you on something, if they find you innocent, that's the law. If some other organisation decides to then try you on the same thing and finds you guilty on something you are, officially, innocent of then it looks like they were just out to get you from the start.

Posted by: arivanjj Jun 10 2014, 11:39 AM

thanks for posting kurt

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Jun 10 2014, 12:24 PM

QUOTE (dst @ Jun 10 2014, 05:21 PM) *
I understand why Terry decided to retire after this but how do you know the civil court was right and FA was wrong?


It doesn't matter. The double jeopardy thing should protect him.

Posted by: dst Jun 10 2014, 01:54 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 10 2014, 12:57 PM) *
I think it's pretty irrelevant in a way. When you go to court and have experts try you on something, if they find you innocent, that's the law. If some other organisation decides to then try you on the same thing and finds you guilty on something you are, officially, innocent of then it looks like they were just out to get you from the start.

I don't think it is irrelevant. It's like with Sterling. It's an entirely different issue of course I'm just referring to the fact that every company has its own rules and should be able to look at everything internally. Sterling didn't do anything illegal yet he was forced out of the league. Or let's say you're an NFL player in Denver. State laws allow you to smoke weed freely but the NFL doesn't.

QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Jun 10 2014, 02:24 PM) *
It doesn't matter. The double jeopardy thing should protect him.

That doesn't have anything to do there, he wasn't tried by another civil court, he was tried by the governing body to which his company belongs and could only have been punished within its boundaries, the FA can't sent him to jail or anything.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 10 2014, 02:22 PM

I really don't get this. I don't know of any England supporter who wouldn't want John Terry in there instead of Jagielka. Yet the FA are conspiring against him to keep him out of the team?

You know, going by Terry's history I wouldn't be surprised if he's dead guilty.

There's no Rio anymore on the England team so that's not an angle that can be played really. I've heard that the other England players don't really like him though, especially after the ego-fest in S. Africa about the captaincy.

And I personally believe the FA as an organization would have preferred to have Terry in there as he increases England's chances of success, and that is what they ultimately want for their nation.

Posted by: Danny Jun 10 2014, 02:51 PM

Terry was found not guilty by a tribunal/court regarding that alleged racism of Ashley Cole. That court was set up by the FA.

The FA have the axe to grind with Terry - he'd gladly play for England again. But he can't with the current climate.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 10 2014, 03:18 PM

QUOTE (dst @ Jun 10 2014, 02:54 PM) *
Or let's say you're an NFL player in Denver. State laws allow you to smoke weed freely but the NFL doesn't.

With this example you're missing the point. John Terry was found innocent for something that he was then found guilty for. It wasn't a case of there being different rules in public and in the Premier League. Your point is an example where the rules are different within each, but that's not the case here.

What would be a better comparison is being an NFL player in a state were smoking weed is illegal, that player being found innocent by the courts and then the NFL holding their own inquiry and finding said player guilty and stopping him from player. It is taking the law into their own hands.

To me what the court says, goes. What next? Say Aaron Hernandez gets off his murder charge, are the NFL going to try him, find him guilty and sentence him to death? What happens at the courts is final and that should always be the case.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 10 2014, 06:01 PM

According to Mediaset, this is how Italy will play against England (brace yourself, Han):

Buffon; Darmian, Barzagli, Chiellini, De Sciglio; Pirlo, De Rossi, Verratti, Marchisio, Candreva; Balotelli.

So, he brings five forwards and only plays one. Makes sense. And seriously, Darmian?

Posted by: han2503 Jun 10 2014, 07:09 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 10 2014, 06:01 PM) *
According to Mediaset, this is how Italy will play against England (brace yourself, Han):

Buffon; Darmian, Barzagli, Chiellini, De Sciglio; Pirlo, De Rossi, Verratti, Marchisio, Candreva; Balotelli.

So, he brings five forwards and only plays one. Makes sense. And seriously, Darmian?

I personally don't believe for a second that he will drop Abate. Darmian was a bit catastrophic the other night against Fluminense.

Candreva though... I do believe - with massive foreboding - the he will start. For some reason only known to Prandelli, he likes this guy. Pepe was f@cking better than him FFS!

Still, I think from now till Saturday the journalists are just pulling cr@p out of their @sses big time.

I think it will be:

Buffon; Abate, Barzagli, Chiellini, De Sciglio; Pirlo, De Rossi, Verratti, Marchisio, Candreva/Cassano; Balotelli.

The only real question mark is Cassano or Candreva. I'll tear some hair out if it's the latter.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 10 2014, 09:59 PM

That lineup is a list of random players, there's no system at all.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 10 2014, 10:22 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 10 2014, 09:59 PM) *
That lineup is a list of random players, there's no system at all.


I kind of agree, but it boils down to midfield. Playing with five midfielders, you either need two of them to be wingers, or AMs. Except for Candreva, who sucks balls, everyone else is pretty much a CM.

Posted by: dst Jun 10 2014, 11:43 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 10 2014, 05:18 PM) *
With this example you're missing the point. John Terry was found innocent for something that he was then found guilty for. It wasn't a case of there being different rules in public and in the Premier League. Your point is an example where the rules are different within each, but that's not the case here.

To me what the court says, goes. What next? Say Aaron Hernandez gets off his murder charge, are the NFL going to try him, find him guilty and sentence him to death? What happens at the courts is final and that should always be the case.

That's exactly what it is. What the court thought was not enough to give a guilty verdict, the FA did. Sterling did nothing punishable in a civil court, he can't be guilty of anything but he is still racist and for that reason he'll soon be out of the league.

What the court said did go. Terry was then charged internally. What if you were in charge and Terry was your employee? Yes he was cleared in court but wouldn't you want to have your own investigation? I personally would. Obviously you (or the FA in this case) have no such power to sentence someone to death, you can only punish him within the boundaries of the league.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 11 2014, 12:59 PM

Manaus pitch just days before the Italy England game


Well the Italian players won't find it that much of a stretch, they play in stadiums like the Bentegodi which always looks like a potato field.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 11 2014, 02:22 PM

QUOTE (dst @ Jun 11 2014, 12:43 AM) *
That's exactly what it is. What the court thought was not enough to give a guilty verdict, the FA did. Sterling did nothing punishable in a civil court, he can't be guilty of anything but he is still racist and for that reason he'll soon be out of the league.

What the court said did go. Terry was then charged internally. What if you were in charge and Terry was your employee? Yes he was cleared in court but wouldn't you want to have your own investigation? I personally would. Obviously you (or the FA in this case) have no such power to sentence someone to death, you can only punish him within the boundaries of the league.

Sterling isn't being punished though. The NBA can force owners out whenever they please. Sterling was found guilty of something that is "punishable" by NBA laws and will be receiving a massive amount of money. Terry was found innocent of something that he was then later punished for. It's not a case of the FA and courts having different laws on this, it's the same. Racism is racism, it is punishable by both the courts and the FA. So for the courts to find him innocent and the FA to then find him guilty just proves the witch hunt they were on with him.

This World Cup is already one of the worst ever and it hasn't even started. What a mess.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Jun 11 2014, 02:57 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 11 2014, 03:59 PM) *
Manaus pitch just days before the Italy England game


Well the Italian players won't find it that much of a stretch, they play in stadiums like the Bentegodi which always looks like a potato field.


Prandelli has recommended to give timeouts during games for water breaks, because non-SA teams are not accustomed to the heat? Heard that on the radio today.

What you recon?

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 11 2014, 03:17 PM

I'm not sure. Football is a game of momentum. Stopping every now and then would affect the game and a rhythm of a team.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jun 11 2014, 03:21 PM

Yes. And this would be a break in tradition.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 11 2014, 04:36 PM

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Jun 11 2014, 02:57 PM) *
Prandelli has recommended to give timeouts during games for water breaks, because non-SA teams are not accustomed to the heat? Heard that on the radio today.

What you recon?

The heat thing confounds me tbh.

And I feel like they're making a huge deal out of it when there are bigger concerns in this world cup. Mainly - will there even be a stadium to play in? - (Sao Paolo stadium apparently still not finished and this is the stadium that is supposed to host the opening game).

Just yesterday over here in Malta the temperature was 29 degrees Celsius with 75% humidity. And this is only just the start of summer. We're looking at 43+ degrees and higher humidity when we near August. Don't know what the weather is like where you guys are but today in Manaus it's 29 degrees Celsius with 80% humidity. Not that much difference

Yes, it's hot, especially when you're doing something laborious, and especially if it's during the afternoon.

But these games are going to be played in the evening and these guys aren't just you and me, they are trained, professional athletes.

I think there's just too much focus on the heat. Some of these Italian players play Serie A games in late August/early September and it's still sh!t hot in the south of Italy. I'm sure they've experienced similar conditions. I think if these teams focus too much on the heat and not on much else it will become a hindrance on that team

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 11 2014, 05:06 PM

Maybe. 29 degrees with 85% humidity is still an awful big difference to the UK though and I'm guessing Russia and Germany too. Maybe for the countries in the South of Europe, Africa, South America and the North American nations it won't be a huge difference, but it will certainly affect us IMO, we just about get into the 20s for summer and the humidity is certainly way off 80%.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 11 2014, 06:14 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 11 2014, 05:06 PM) *
Maybe. 29 degrees with 85% humidity is still an awful big difference to the UK though and I'm guessing Russia and Germany too. Maybe for the countries in the South of Europe, Africa, South America and the North American nations it won't be a huge difference, but it will certainly affect us IMO, we just about get into the 20s for summer and the humidity is certainly way off 80%.

I always get the impression that the English crave that. I see tourists here in the middle of the summer, in the afternoon sun, literally baking their @sses off in the heat either walking around going to tourist spots or sun bathing. Maybe it's an impression I get because they do things in the summer that I wouldn't even dream of doing, basically doing anything during the mid-day. The English seem to relish it

Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Jun 11 2014, 06:45 PM

Can't wait for this. South Africa was the worst football tournament I've ever seen. Don't let us down Brazil.

Posted by: dst Jun 11 2014, 08:11 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 11 2014, 04:22 PM) *
Sterling isn't being punished though. The NBA can force owners out whenever they please. Sterling was found guilty of something that is "punishable" by NBA laws and will be receiving a massive amount of money. Terry was found innocent of something that he was then later punished for. It's not a case of the FA and courts having different laws on this, it's the same. Racism is racism, it is punishable by both the courts and the FA. So for the courts to find him innocent and the FA to then find him guilty just proves the witch hunt they were on with him.

Of course Sterling is being punished. He would have kept ownership of his team if it wasn't for this because it's gonna be worth even more in a few years. He's not really making money off of this, he already owned the team and could sell it any time he wanted to.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 11 2014, 10:13 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 11 2014, 07:14 PM) *
I always get the impression that the English crave that. I see tourists here in the middle of the summer, in the afternoon sun, literally baking their @sses off in the heat either walking around going to tourist spots or sun bathing. Maybe it's an impression I get because they do things in the summer that I wouldn't even dream of doing, basically doing anything during the mid-day. The English seem to relish it

Well, we have to make the most of the sun when we actually see it. biggrin.gif

Posted by: han2503 Jun 11 2014, 10:49 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 11 2014, 10:13 PM) *
Well, we have to make the most of the sun when we actually see it. biggrin.gif

laugh.gif

Yeah but the English actually look like they enjoy getting roasted like a tomato. I can count on one hand the amount of British people I see who come here and remain sunburn free.

Posted by: Ry4n Jun 12 2014, 04:20 AM

I hope there is not a SA version of the Vuvu zela...my ears are still ringing.

Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Jun 12 2014, 08:46 AM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 11 2014, 11:49 PM) *
laugh.gif

Yeah but the English actually look like they enjoy getting roasted like a tomato. I can count on one hand the amount of British people I see who come here and remain sunburn free.

Not being funny but Malta is hardly Jamaica, you're either making it up or you're getting 100% people from Yorkshire laugh.gif

Posted by: han2503 Jun 12 2014, 09:09 AM

QUOTE (Milan Are Brilliant @ Jun 12 2014, 08:46 AM) *
Not being funny but Malta is hardly Jamaica, you're either making it up or you're getting 100% people from Yorkshire laugh.gif

laugh.gif don't know where they're from but majority of British people that I see here in the summer are roasted, especially the older people

Posted by: dst Jun 12 2014, 11:10 AM

All people from places that don't get that much sun get reddish easily though because they're not used to it, it doesn't mean they've been staying in the sun forever, although some actually do.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 12 2014, 11:28 AM

So, who's rooting for Croatia today? (except Fillipo, that is tongue.gif )

Posted by: Danny Jun 12 2014, 11:43 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 12 2014, 10:28 AM) *
So, who's rooting for Croatia today? (except Fillipo, that is tongue.gif )


If it hadn't been for my bet, I would have been.

And the fact I like Brazil.

Posted by: dst Jun 12 2014, 12:08 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 12 2014, 01:28 PM) *
So, who's rooting for Croatia today? (except Fillipo, that is tongue.gif )

I still like Croatia because of Boban so count me in!

edit: And because of our Fillipo! biggrin.gif

Posted by: han2503 Jun 12 2014, 12:19 PM

QUOTE (dst @ Jun 12 2014, 11:10 AM) *
All people from places that don't get that much sun get reddish easily though because they're not used to it, it doesn't mean they've been staying in the sun forever, although some actually do.

True, although most of them are guilty for sun bathing for hours on end.

And Croatia all the way for me. I want to see the chaos that will ensue should Brazil not win this game

Posted by: arivanjj Jun 12 2014, 12:38 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 12 2014, 09:43 PM) *
If it hadn't been for my bet, I would have been.

And the fact I like Brazil.

laugh.gif same here! and i've put my joker on it!

Posted by: Zed.D Jun 12 2014, 12:49 PM

European club football may be the best technically but nothing beats the World Cup. it's what epitomizes 'football' the most.

As always I'll be supporting Italy but I want Portugal to do well, maybe even win it! also rooting for Argentina as alternatives but not as much as Portugal.

Teams I don't want to win it are Spain, Germany, Brazil (unless they make the final in which case they should just win it), Netherlands, England (nothing against any of them wink.gif ). I also feel France could surprise and make the quarters at least.

As for tonight's game, if Croatia are as good as they have been, it could be a draw. but 2-0 to Brazil is a safer bet.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 12 2014, 12:52 PM

I really, really want to see Brazil fail.

Posted by: Danny Jun 12 2014, 02:10 PM

QUOTE (Zed.D @ Jun 12 2014, 11:49 AM) *
European club football may be the best technically but nothing beats the World Cup. it's what epitomizes 'football' the most.

As always I'll be supporting Italy but I want Portugal to do well, maybe even win it! also rooting for Argentina as alternatives but not as much as Portugal.

Teams I don't want to win it are Spain, Germany, Brazil (unless they make the final in which case they should just win it), Netherlands, England (nothing against any of them wink.gif ). I also feel France could surprise and make the quarters at least.

As for tonight's game, if Croatia are as good as they have been, it could be a draw. but 2-0 to Brazil is a safer bet.


Six teams I'd hate to see win it are Italy, France, Argentina, Germany, Spain or England. Anyone else I'm happy with, as long as they're one of the four teams I put a bet on for the semis. Germany aside.

Away from 'money', though, and genuinely, the teams I would be happy with winning are: Brazil, Belgium, Uruguay, Portugal, Colombia, USA, Croatia. Yeah, basically none of the 'big' teams, aside Brazil.

Agree on your opening comment. World Cup is the absolute pinnacle of football. It's that simple.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 12 2014, 02:44 PM

^ Are you always against Italy? Or just this time? If they had, say, 4-5 Milan players as absolute starters, would you still want them not to win?

Posted by: han2503 Jun 12 2014, 03:03 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 12 2014, 02:10 PM) *
Six teams I'd hate to see win it are Italy, France, Argentina, Germany, Spain or England. Anyone else I'm happy with, as long as they're one of the four teams I put a bet on for the semis. Germany aside.

mad.gif mad.gif

tongue.gif

Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Jun 12 2014, 04:18 PM

Fabregas to Chelsea too just announced...

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 12 2014, 04:32 PM

QUOTE (Milan Are Brilliant @ Jun 12 2014, 04:18 PM) *
Fabregas to Chelsea too just announced...


His transfer to Barça resulted completely unsuccessful.

Great signing for Chelsea, though. With him, Oscar, Ramires and Matic they've got a pretty classy midfield.

Posted by: William405 Jun 12 2014, 08:53 PM

Thiago silva is only player I really like in this brazilian squad. sad.gif

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 12 2014, 09:11 PM

Why isn't Mandzukic playing?

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 12 2014, 09:13 PM

laugh.gif

Posted by: Jack Bauer Jun 12 2014, 09:37 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 13 2014, 12:11 AM) *
Why isn't Mandzukic playing?

Suspended.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 12 2014, 09:47 PM

So I guess it will be just about impossibble to earn any sort of freekick when playing brazil rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jun 12 2014, 09:52 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 12 2014, 11:47 PM) *
So I guess it will be just about impossibble to earn any sort of freekick when playing brazil rolleyes.gif

Yeah. So many fouls not given, really irritating.

Posted by: Danny Jun 12 2014, 09:54 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 12 2014, 01:44 PM) *
^ Are you always against Italy? Or just this time? If they had, say, 4-5 Milan players as absolute starters, would you still want them not to win?


If all 11 of them were Milan starters I still wouldn't want them to win. I support Milan. Not Italy.

But yeah, always against them. Don't dislike them anywhere near as much as Spain and Argentina mind you.

Posted by: Danny Jun 12 2014, 09:54 PM

Great opening half. Brazil totally nervous and timid and Croatia just weren't. Took Selecao a while to find their feet and while they're still not in 2nd gear yet they've at least started the engine.

Posted by: Danny Jun 12 2014, 09:56 PM

QUOTE (William405 @ Jun 12 2014, 07:53 PM) *
Thiago silva is only player I really like in this brazilian squad. sad.gif


Neymar, Oscar, Silva, Cesar, and Hulk for me. I do like Luiz too but he's very up and down as a defender.

Still amazed Moura did not make the squad.

EDIT: And Ramires.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 12 2014, 10:10 PM

I'll try to count all the fouls not given to Croatia in this half. Already one

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 12 2014, 10:14 PM

Oscar easily MOM so far.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 12 2014, 10:16 PM

Gustavo looking like a 70s porn star with that mustache

And Modric needs to f@ckinh shoot when there's an opportunity

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 12 2014, 10:23 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 12 2014, 10:16 PM) *
Gustavo looking like a 70s porn star with that mustache


Indeed. laugh.gif

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 12 2014, 10:26 PM

I just realized that Ćorluka looks like a grown-up Walter Jr. from Breaking Bad. laugh.gif

Posted by: han2503 Jun 12 2014, 10:30 PM

How is that a penalty?????

Disgusting refereeing to favour the hosts

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 12 2014, 10:30 PM

This match is rigged, no doubt.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 12 2014, 10:31 PM

This WC already taking a nasty smelling turn

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 12 2014, 10:33 PM

I love to hate on FIFA, but it was a penalty IMO. Loven pulls his arm back as he's about to shoot and it pulls him off balance. You simply can not do that.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 12 2014, 10:33 PM

Well fifa probably already have Brazil engraved on that trophy

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jun 12 2014, 10:35 PM

Really? One of the softest penalties I've ever seen.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Jun 12 2014, 10:36 PM

Disgusting puke.gif

The refs will carry Brazil to the semis at the very least, like they did with Korea in 2002.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 12 2014, 10:38 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 12 2014, 10:33 PM) *
I love to hate on FIFA, but it was a penalty IMO. Loven pulls his arm back as he's about to shoot and it pulls him off balance. You simply can not do that.


I saw no such pulling.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 12 2014, 10:40 PM

By the way, De Sciglio suffered an injury today and won't play against Engalnd, at the very least.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 12 2014, 10:43 PM

So Cesar fumbles it and it's a foul by Croatia...

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 12 2014, 10:44 PM

That was something Croatia can complain about.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 12 2014, 10:45 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 12 2014, 10:43 PM) *
So Cesar fumbles it and it's a foul by Croatia...


Olic put his arm over Cesar's shoulder, it was foul.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 12 2014, 10:45 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 12 2014, 10:40 PM) *
By the way, De Sciglio suffered an injury today and won't play against Engalnd, at the very least.

Damn.... So it will probably be Darmian on the left then

And no one can convince me that that was a penalty

Posted by: han2503 Jun 12 2014, 10:47 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 12 2014, 10:45 PM) *
Olic put his arm over Cesar's shoulder, it was foul.

Cesar had already fumbled.before Olic was anywhere near him

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 12 2014, 10:50 PM

Oscar is absolutely amazing.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 12 2014, 10:50 PM

Croatia deserve to lose with this defending. Awful.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 12 2014, 10:51 PM

Foul by Oscar there before the goal?

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 12 2014, 10:52 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 12 2014, 10:51 PM) *
Foul by Oscar there before the goal?


No, don't think so.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 12 2014, 10:53 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 12 2014, 10:52 PM) *
No, don't think so.

Can't tell as they haven't shown it on the replay, but imo Croatia have been hard done by today

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 12 2014, 10:56 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 12 2014, 10:53 PM) *
Can't tell as they haven't shown it on the replay, but imo Croatia have been hard done by today


Yep, the referee clearly favored Brazil in almost every occasion.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 12 2014, 11:02 PM

Opinion changed after seeing more replays: Not a penalty.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 12 2014, 11:04 PM

Who's Croatia's number 2 goalie? He really has to play if they have any hope of winning a game. Pletikosa was pretty embarrassing.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 12 2014, 11:06 PM

Watching that penalty again, it's absolutely appaling how thw referee could have evwr called a foul there

And I'm pretty sure now that there was a foul before Oscar's goal

Posted by: han2503 Jun 12 2014, 11:07 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 12 2014, 11:04 PM) *
Who's Croatia's number 2 goalie? He really has to play if they have any hope of winning a game. Pletikosa was pretty embarrassing.

Yep, thought he was seriously slow on both shots from Neymar and Oscar

Posted by: Danny Jun 12 2014, 11:16 PM

Love the paranoia in this thread. Yeah FIFA are corrupt but it's the same people claiming Uefa favour Barca now saying FIFA favour Brazil.

Why the f*ck would it matter to FIFA who actually wins this tournament? As long as Blatter keeps paying for his votes he couldn't care less if Brazil or Belgium wins.

As for the ref, he got plenty wrong AGAINST Brazil as well. He just had a 'mare all round.

Posted by: Zed.D Jun 12 2014, 11:19 PM

َA penalty on Ollic was also not given (or could be given). but those were genuine mistakes from the ref IMO. mistakes are also part of the game...

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 12 2014, 11:31 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 12 2014, 11:16 PM) *
Why the f*ck would it matter to FIFA who actually wins this tournament? As long as Blatter keeps paying for his votes he couldn't care less if Brazil or Belgium wins.


Not sure if there's some monetary aspect to it, but it's the fact that Brazil are playing at home. If they go out too quickly the people's enthusiasm would dry out.

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 12 2014, 11:16 PM) *
As for the ref, he got plenty wrong AGAINST Brazil as well.


Didn't notice many, just a few.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 12 2014, 11:31 PM

QUOTE (Zed.D @ Jun 13 2014, 12:19 AM) *
َA penalty on Ollic was also not given (or could be given). but those were genuine mistakes from the ref IMO. mistakes are also part of the game...

That really wasn't even a foul though. You can't run across the front of someone and expect to get a penalty.

Posted by: Danny Jun 13 2014, 12:02 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 12 2014, 10:31 PM) *
Not sure if there's some monetary aspect to it, but it's the fact that Brazil are playing at home. If they go out too quickly the people's enthusiasm would dry out.


The tickets have all been paid for in advance. The sponsors' cash is already in the pocket. TV rights have all been paid for. Just can't see any reason why, even on a financial basis, FIFA would care if Brazil go out. The cash for this tournament wasn't dependent on Brazil progressing. After all, not every match in this tournament will involve them but the stadiums will be generally speaking pretty packed I'd imagine.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jun 13 2014, 12:03 AM

Nope, Olic made an error and stumbled.

Maybe the ref made errors against Brazil, and I think he did them on purpose, knowing the made a wrong decision earlier. Fact remains, he made some big mistakes that directed the whole game outcome.

Posted by: dst Jun 13 2014, 12:38 AM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 13 2014, 01:02 AM) *
Opinion changed after seeing more replays: Not a penalty.

I seriously couldn't believe you actually thought it was a penalty! I was scrolling down the page waiting for this. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Jun 13 2014, 07:31 AM

Pletikosa is like a grandad falling out of his wheelchair. That aside terrible decision from the referee, no idea what he saw. Even on the TV angle straight away without replays I was of the opinion of 'no way is that a penalty'.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 13 2014, 09:29 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 13 2014, 12:02 AM) *
The tickets have all been paid for in advance. The sponsors' cash is already in the pocket. TV rights have all been paid for. Just can't see any reason why, even on a financial basis, FIFA would care if Brazil go out. The cash for this tournament wasn't dependent on Brazil progressing. After all, not every match in this tournament will involve them but the stadiums will be generally speaking pretty packed I'd imagine.


Maybe not financial then, but it's the second aspect I mentioned. Remember in 2002, how the whole country was hyped and super-excited throughout Korea's progression? Then FIFA decided they weren't suited for a final, and the referee didn't favor them against Germany.

QUOTE (Milan Are Brilliant @ Jun 13 2014, 07:31 AM) *
Even on the TV angle straight away without replays I was of the opinion of 'no way is that a penalty'.


Yep.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 13 2014, 09:58 AM






Posted by: Danny Jun 13 2014, 10:49 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 13 2014, 08:29 AM) *
Maybe not financial then, but it's the second aspect I mentioned. Remember in 2002, how the whole country was hyped and super-excited throughout Korea's progression? Then FIFA decided they weren't suited for a final, and the referee didn't favor them against Germany.


Not sure I'd agree there either, he yellow carded Ballack and blocked him from appearing in the final - their star player was suspended.

Furthermore haven't you just dispelled your own theory? Sure, they're not a Brazil but they were still the host nation - surely if anything by your theory of home excitement and people's attention the focal match of the world cup, the final, would be the most perfect occasion to get the unfancied hosts there?

I think refs are just refs. Sometimes yes, maybe they have been handed a bung or two to influence a result (or ordered), and most cases of this are exposed. But 99% of the time their bad calls are just plain mortal errors.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 13 2014, 11:18 AM

I do think there will be a small financial benefit if Brazil continue to progress, however small that may be. But this is FIFA, they'd happily have someone die to make an extra cent.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 13 2014, 11:41 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 13 2014, 10:49 AM) *
Not sure I'd agree there either, he yellow carded Ballack and blocked him from appearing in the final - their star player was suspended.

Furthermore haven't you just dispelled your own theory? Sure, they're not a Brazil but they were still the host nation - surely if anything by your theory of home excitement and people's attention the focal match of the world cup, the final, would be the most perfect occasion to get the unfancied hosts there?

I think refs are just refs. Sometimes yes, maybe they have been handed a bung or two to influence a result (or ordered), and most cases of this are exposed. But 99% of the time their bad calls are just plain mortal errors.


Giving a yellow to Ballack didn't benefit Korea in any way.

And no, I'm not saying that FIFA were favoring Korea to win the tournament, but to make them advance as much as possible. Obviously the semis were as far as they could go. A Brazil-Korea final wouldn't have had much appeal to the rest of the world.

I don't buy it that refs simply make mistakes when they're blatantly favoring one side over the other for the entirety of the match. Maybe the referee last night was too heavily influenced by the atmosphere, but the fact that FIFA are a bunch of thugs doesn't make it sound that far-fetched if the ref was bribed before the game to accommodate the host nation.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 13 2014, 12:29 PM

Paletta to play instead of De Sciglio, with Chiellini as LB.

Source: Mediaset

Darmian-Barzagli-Paletta-Chiellini, possibly the worst Italian backline ever?

Posted by: Zed.D Jun 13 2014, 12:48 PM

You never know, even Italy's worst defense ever can have a great night. but England are more likely to win I think.

Posted by: Danny Jun 13 2014, 01:05 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 13 2014, 10:41 AM) *
Giving a yellow to Ballack didn't benefit Korea in any way.

And no, I'm not saying that FIFA were favoring Korea to win the tournament, but to make them advance as much as possible. Obviously the semis were as far as they could go. A Brazil-Korea final wouldn't have had much appeal to the rest of the world.


I'd argue the exact opposite. The biggest sponsor of Brazil 2014? Sony, a Japanese company. Biggest sponsor of the Australian Open in tennis? Kia, a Korean car company. Sponsorship from these parts of the world is the most lucrative around, and these parts of the world are the most densely populated.

It would make financial and popularity sense to have a Brazil Korea final as at least a billion Asians would tune in for it and sponsors would be encouraged for the next world cup.

QUOTE
I don't buy it that refs simply make mistakes when they're blatantly favoring one side over the other for the entirety of the match. Maybe the referee last night was too heavily influenced by the atmosphere, but the fact that FIFA are a bunch of thugs doesn't make it sound that far-fetched if the ref was bribed before the game to accommodate the host nation.


I just think the occasion got to him and he had a bad night all round. I agree FIFA are corrupt to the hills but for me it's at a bureaucracy level and not a football one.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 13 2014, 02:15 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 13 2014, 01:05 PM) *
I'd argue the exact opposite. The biggest sponsor of Brazil 2014? Sony, a Japanese company. Biggest sponsor of the Australian Open in tennis? Kia, a Korean car company. Sponsorship from these parts of the world is the most lucrative around, and these parts of the world are the most densely populated.

It would make financial and popularity sense to have a Brazil Korea final as at least a billion Asians would tune in for it and sponsors would be encouraged for the next world cup.


And I argue that less people all over the world would have watched the final if Korea had made it instead of Germany. And besides, these deals have already been contracted. You said it yourself. "The sponsors' cash is already in the pocket. TV rights have all been paid for". In this sense, your argument doesn't hold water.

Posted by: Danny Jun 13 2014, 04:06 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 13 2014, 01:15 PM) *
And I argue that less people all over the world would have watched the final if Korea had made it instead of Germany. And besides, these deals have already been contracted. You said it yourself. "The sponsors' cash is already in the pocket. TV rights have all been paid for". In this sense, your argument doesn't hold water.


Population of Europe (750m) is not even that of one country in Asia. China and India together (2.5b) hold almost 4 times what Europe as an entire continent does. Add all the other Asian countries and the TV audience that would be interested in an Asian country in the final compared with the audience interested in Germany is almost painfully larger.

And with Brazil being part of a continent that has a billion in total itself that's essentially 4B+ people who would be interested in Brazil V Korea compared with the 1.7B that would be interested in Brazil Germany.

When it's pure numbers, more Asians would be interested in a final involving an Asian country than Europeans would in a European country.

We're quite Western phobic over here, thinking the world revolves around what us Westerners think, when we're totally outnumbered by the East.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 13 2014, 04:53 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 13 2014, 12:29 PM) *
Paletta to play instead of De Sciglio, with Chiellini as LB.

Source: Mediaset

Darmian-Barzagli-Paletta-Chiellini, possibly the worst Italian backline ever?

WTF?

Why? Has Abate offended Prandelli's mother or something FFS???

Why would Prandelli compromise the centre of that defence by putting Paletta in there and moving Chiellini to the left?

He was already thinking of starting Darmian, just stick Darmian on the left and play Abate on the right. It's not rocket science FFS!

Paletta, Darmian and Candreva all in the same starting line-up. England could actually win this FFS!!

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 13 2014, 05:17 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 13 2014, 04:06 PM) *
Population of Europe (750m) is not even that of one country in Asia. China and India together (2.5b) hold almost 4 times what Europe as an entire continent does. Add all the other Asian countries and the TV audience that would be interested in an Asian country in the final compared with the audience interested in Germany is almost painfully larger.

And with Brazil being part of a continent that has a billion in total itself that's essentially 4B+ people who would be interested in Brazil V Korea compared with the 1.7B that would be interested in Brazil Germany.

When it's pure numbers, more Asians would be interested in a final involving an Asian country than Europeans would in a European country.

We're quite Western phobic over here, thinking the world revolves around what us Westerners think, when we're totally outnumbered by the East.


Even if an Asian country made it to the final you really think everyone would give a damn? Just because they're from the same continent doesn't mean they all support each other. On the contrary, you've got the Japanese who dislike the Chinese and likewise. I'm pretty sure an Indonesian would prefer a Brazil-Germnay final to a Brazil-Korea final.

But really, I think you've pushed this argument in the wrong direction. The simple reason that FIFA would support Brazil is to keep the Brazilian population "busy" with excitement, them being the host nation and all. It's a matter of entertainment, not of sponsorships or TV rights.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 13 2014, 05:18 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 13 2014, 04:53 PM) *
WTF?

Why? Has Abate offended Prandelli's mother or something FFS???

Why would Prandelli compromise the centre of that defence by putting Paletta in there and moving Chiellini to the left?

He was already thinking of starting Darmian, just stick Darmian on the left and play Abate on the right. It's not rocket science FFS!

Paletta, Darmian and Candreva all in the same starting line-up. England could actually win this FFS!!


Yeah, it's pretty pathetic.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 13 2014, 05:35 PM

Mexico had 2 goals wrongly disallowed.

and we think European refs are bad. laugh.gif

Posted by: han2503 Jun 13 2014, 05:44 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 13 2014, 05:35 PM) *
Mexico had 2 goals wrongly disallowed.

and we think European refs are bad. laugh.gif

Yep, 2 games, 3 awful mistakes already. Bodes well for the rest of the tournament...

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 13 2014, 06:07 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 13 2014, 06:44 PM) *
Yep, 2 games, 3 awful mistakes already. Bodes well for the rest of the tournament...

Could argue 4 mistakes with Croatia's disallowed goal.

Posted by: Danny Jun 13 2014, 06:22 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 13 2014, 04:35 PM) *
Mexico had 2 goals wrongly disallowed.

and we think European refs are bad. laugh.gif


I thought it was a pro Brazilian conspiracy? You're implying it's just mortal error?!

Posted by: han2503 Jun 13 2014, 06:32 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 13 2014, 06:22 PM) *
I thought it was a pro Brazilian conspiracy? You're implying it's just mortal error?!

Come on Danny. The "mistake" in the Brazilian game was just blatant. Every 50-50 challenge went their way. Multiple fouls on Croatia players in dangerous areas not given and then the penalty and, as kurt pointed out, the disallowed goal for the Croatians, which imo was correct as Cesar had already lost out on the ball before the Croatian player (can't remember who) even touched him.

Today's mistakes were more borderline. The first was very tight but imo onside, the second was a bit more obvious but nothing as bad as a player leaning on an opposing player and sliding to the ground and earning a penalty like Fred did

Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Jun 13 2014, 07:03 PM

Least Mexico won that, Cameroon were poor + with the 2 poorly disallowed goals.

Not expecting a great watch with Spain - Netherlands. Looking forward more to Chile - Australia later.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 13 2014, 07:17 PM

QUOTE (Milan Are Brilliant @ Jun 13 2014, 07:03 PM) *
Least Mexico won that, Cameroon were poor + with the 2 poorly disallowed goals.

Not expecting a great watch with Spain - Netherlands. Looking forward more to Chile - Australia later.

Don't know if I will stay up for that. Chile will probably smash Australia anyway

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 13 2014, 07:19 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 13 2014, 07:22 PM) *
I thought it was a pro Brazilian conspiracy? You're implying it's just mortal error?!

I know they have to because it's the "World Cup" but why have such **** refs just because they feel they have to?

Posted by: Forza Milan! Jun 13 2014, 08:02 PM

WC is always interesting for my family. I am, of course, a big Azzurri fan. My wife is Korean. We live in the US and my 4 kids are born and raised here, so we all support USMNT as well. Then there is work. I work for a Japanese company (and would like to see Honda do well), and most of my team is based out of England (and I spend a fair amount of time there). I normally do not mind to see England do well, except of course this year we are in direct competition.

My prediction? USMNT will prove Klinsmann wrong and go all the way. (Or maybe not smile.gif )

More seriously, I think a South American team will win, probably Brazil (if the players are not good enough, it looks like the refs are there to help). If not Brazil, maybe Uruguay or Argentina. Of the European teams, Germany or Belgium have the best chance IMHO. Maybe Spain but they do not look as impressive as they did in the past.

Of course I would like Italy to win, but I don't see that happening.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 13 2014, 08:15 PM

I'd love to see the US do well, but I think Milanfan could coach a team better than Klinsmann.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 13 2014, 08:28 PM

Costa stands on Dutch players foot = penalty.

Jesus Christ the officiating...

Posted by: Jack Bauer Jun 13 2014, 08:41 PM

My expression during all the games so far:


Posted by: Jack Bauer Jun 13 2014, 08:45 PM

GREAT goal.

Posted by: William405 Jun 13 2014, 08:47 PM

What a goal from Van Persie!! Brilliant!

Posted by: William405 Jun 13 2014, 08:49 PM

QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Jun 13 2014, 10:02 PM) *
WC is always interesting for my family. I am, of course, a big Azzurri fan. My wife is Korean. We live in the US and my 4 kids are born and raised here, so we all support USMNT as well. Then there is work. I work for a Japanese company (and would like to see Honda do well), and most of my team is based out of England (and I spend a fair amount of time there). I normally do not mind to see England do well, except of course this year we are in direct competition.

My prediction? USMNT will prove Klinsmann wrong and go all the way. (Or maybe not smile.gif )

More seriously, I think a South American team will win, probably Brazil (if the players are not good enough, it looks like the refs are there to help). If not Brazil, maybe Uruguay or Argentina. Of the European teams, Germany or Belgium have the best chance IMHO. Maybe Spain but they do not look as impressive as they did in the past.

Of course I would like Italy to win, but I don't see that happening.



Interesting life there, mate. :cool:

Posted by: William405 Jun 13 2014, 08:50 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 13 2014, 10:28 PM) *
Costa stands on Dutch players foot = penalty.

Jesus Christ the officiating...


Lol what? The dutch player just dived in there..you can't do that.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 13 2014, 08:57 PM

QUOTE (William405 @ Jun 13 2014, 09:50 PM) *
Lol what? The dutch player just dived in there..you can't do that.

Yeah and made no contact with Costa, then Costa reached out to his left to stand on the Dutch player. I don't see how it's a penalty for Costa standing on the Dutch player?


Posted by: Forza Milan! Jun 13 2014, 09:07 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 13 2014, 09:15 PM) *
I'd love to see the US do well, but I think Milanfan could coach a team better than Klinsmann.

Donovan would probably agree with you smile.gif

Personally, I do not mind Klinsmann. (We have had worse.)

Posted by: William405 Jun 13 2014, 09:07 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 13 2014, 10:57 PM) *
Yeah and made no contact with Costa, then Costa reached out to his left to stand on the Dutch player. I don't see how it's a penalty for Costa standing on the Dutch player?



Imo it doesn't matter who put his leg over who..there was contact and he stopped him from completing his motion..penalty.

Posted by: William405 Jun 13 2014, 09:10 PM

Yesssss!

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 13 2014, 09:11 PM

QUOTE (William405 @ Jun 13 2014, 10:07 PM) *
Imo it doesn't matter who put his leg over who..there was contact and he stopped him from completing his motion..penalty.

Huh? How can it not matter who makes the contact? That's the most important factor.

Awesome from Robben!

Posted by: William405 Jun 13 2014, 09:13 PM

Diego Costa??! What the hell?! What a bi***

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jun 13 2014, 09:13 PM

Robben? I'm still WOW-ing to Daley Blind. To brilliant crosses. Really impressed me so far.

Posted by: William405 Jun 13 2014, 09:16 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 13 2014, 11:11 PM) *
Huh? How can it not matter who makes the contact? That's the most important factor.

Awesome from Robben!


I saw the gif just now. Yes, costa does stand on the dutch player's foot..but before that the dutch player sweeped costa's leg.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 13 2014, 09:16 PM

Spain about to have an Italy-like defence of the title?

As for the penalty I can't blame Rizzoli for giving that because at first glance it looked like Costa's foot was taken out from under him

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 13 2014, 09:17 PM

QUOTE (William405 @ Jun 13 2014, 10:16 PM) *
I saw the gif just now. Yes, costa does stand on the dutch player's foot..but before that the dutch player sweeped costa's leg.

No he didn't. Go and watch the replays again. The Dutch player slides past Costa without making any contact.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 13 2014, 09:18 PM

VAN PERSIE sooo close!!!!

Posted by: Forza Milan! Jun 13 2014, 09:19 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 13 2014, 10:16 PM) *
Spain about to have an Italy-like defence of the title?

As for the penalty I can't blame Rizzoli for giving that because at first glance it looked like Costa's foot was taken out from under him

Personally, I am getting tired of Spain and their tiki-taka. Would not mind to see RVP score a couple more.

EDIT: Or Stefan de Vrij laugh.gif

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 13 2014, 09:19 PM

Roncrete has Costa in his back pocket all along. biggrin.gif

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 13 2014, 09:22 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Posted by: han2503 Jun 13 2014, 09:22 PM

Lol, after 6 years Spain are finally getting punished for not knowing how to defend

Posted by: Jack Bauer Jun 13 2014, 09:27 PM

Spain defence is laughable biggrin.gif

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 13 2014, 09:28 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 13 2014, 09:22 PM) *
Lol, after 6 years Spain are finally getting punished for not knowing how to defend


After having won two Euros and one WC.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Jun 13 2014, 09:29 PM

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 13 2014, 09:30 PM

Hahaha.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 13 2014, 09:31 PM

Casillas with probably the worst performance of his career.

Posted by: William405 Jun 13 2014, 09:31 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 13 2014, 11:28 PM) *
After having won two Euros and one WC.


+1

Posted by: Forza Milan! Jun 13 2014, 09:32 PM

Yes, RVP!!!!

Posted by: Jack Bauer Jun 13 2014, 09:37 PM

F@cking amazing!! laugh.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 13 2014, 09:38 PM

MASSACRE!

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 13 2014, 09:39 PM

What a run by Robben.

But wow, Spain are getting annihilated out there.

Posted by: William405 Jun 13 2014, 09:39 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 13 2014, 11:17 PM) *
No he didn't. Go and watch the replays again. The Dutch player slides past Costa without making any contact.


laugh.gif

Ah well now that I see it on my computer screen, looks like you were right. mad.gif

Posted by: han2503 Jun 13 2014, 09:40 PM

#laughingsohard

Posted by: Jack Bauer Jun 13 2014, 09:40 PM

Ramos gonna sue Robben for r@pe?

Posted by: han2503 Jun 13 2014, 09:41 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 13 2014, 09:28 PM) *
After having won two Euros and one WC.

That's the tragedy of it

Posted by: Jack Bauer Jun 13 2014, 09:43 PM

This revenge is Tarantino style.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 13 2014, 09:46 PM

This game is a perfect example of how Spain completely lose it if you pressure them on every ball for the whole 90 minutes.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 13 2014, 09:48 PM

Torres, haha.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Jun 13 2014, 09:48 PM

So we'll probably have Brazil-Spain in the Round of 16.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 13 2014, 09:49 PM

Torres does a Torres

Posted by: han2503 Jun 13 2014, 09:50 PM

QUOTE (Jack Bauer @ Jun 13 2014, 09:48 PM) *
So we'll probably have Brazil-Spain in the Round of 16.

If they play like this againt Chile I expect another hammering

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 13 2014, 09:53 PM

That was a rather enjoyable last hour or so.

Posted by: Zed.D Jun 13 2014, 10:07 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 14 2014, 02:16 AM) *
This game is a perfect example of how Spain completely lose it if you pressure them on every ball for the whole 90 minutes.


It' amazing how other teams let Spain 'impose' their tiki-taka on them for so long. at least they're trying now.

RVP's goal and celebration gave me major goosebumps. guess I was thinking of Holland in 2010 when I said I don't want them to win this world cup. I'm won over for now!

Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Jun 13 2014, 10:08 PM

That was fantastic laugh.gif

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 13 2014, 10:10 PM

Holland, like Brazil, are very likeable I always find.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 13 2014, 10:13 PM

Those last 60 minutes or so nearly make up for the shittiness that was 2010

Posted by: arivanjj Jun 13 2014, 10:21 PM

now we have a tournament on our hands. that was just beautiful!

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 13 2014, 10:37 PM

So good.


Posted by: X-Offender Jun 13 2014, 10:49 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 13 2014, 10:37 PM) *
So good.



His run was the best part. Ramos was miles ahead and still lost it.

Posted by: acid911 Jun 13 2014, 11:17 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jun 14 2014, 03:10 AM) *
Holland, like Brazil, are very likeable I always find.

Exactly, that's why they are my second favorite team. smile.gif And Robben has always been one of my favorite players of this current generation, few favorite players of this current generation. So glad to see him perform like this today, would have preferred a hatrick, to be honest. But amazing stuff, either way. Breathtaking.

The way I like to see football played. happy.gif Pity we don't always get it like this, the game is so off the tangent. And you know what was my favorite sight of this match? Seeing the two smug basturds Blatter and Platini looking like the two smug basturds they are when the scoreline was 5-1.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 13 2014, 11:26 PM

My my, Australia are sooo bad, and why the f@ck are they trying to play the ball out defence with players who can barely qualify as professionals against a high pressing team lik Chile? This could get ugly... Spain type ugly biggrin.gif

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 13 2014, 11:30 PM

if Chile can get anything out of Spain that would be great, they currently have a +6 GD over them. biggrin.gif

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 13 2014, 11:35 PM

All came from the Chile keeper messing about.

Posted by: arivanjj Jun 13 2014, 11:49 PM

utterly disappointing first 30 from socceroos. still in it though

Posted by: Forza Milan! Jun 13 2014, 11:58 PM

QUOTE (acid911 @ Jun 14 2014, 12:17 AM) *
Exactly, that's why they are my second favorite team. smile.gif And Robben has always been one of my favorite players of this current generation, few favorite players of this current generation. So glad to see him perform like this today, would have preferred a hatrick, to be honest. But amazing stuff, either way. Breathtaking.

The way I like to see football played. happy.gif Pity we don't always get it like this, the game is so off the tangent. And you know what was my favorite sight of this match? Seeing the two smug basturds Blatter and Platini looking like the two smug basturds they are when the scoreline was 5-1.

I don't mind Holland. (Have liked them since the "Clockwork Orange" days.) Hard not to take them seriously after today, though they have been known to start out strong and then fall apart after a few games.

(I guess I will have to become a Chile fan as well, at least for the group stage. I really do not like Spain.)

Posted by: acid911 Jun 14 2014, 12:08 AM

QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Jun 14 2014, 04:58 AM) *
I don't mind Holland. (Have liked them since the "Clockwork Orange" days.) Hard not to take them seriously after today, though they have been known to start out strong and then fall apart after a few games.

Agreed. smile.gif But they almost went all the way last time.

QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Jun 14 2014, 04:58 AM) *
(I guess I will have to become a Chile fan as well, at least for the group stage. I really do not like Spain.)

Can't say I disagree. tongue.gif I'm rooting for the Aussies, though.

Posted by: Forza Milan! Jun 14 2014, 12:11 AM

QUOTE (acid911 @ Jun 14 2014, 01:08 AM) *
Agreed. smile.gif But they almost went all the way last time.


Can't say I disagree. tongue.gif I'm rooting for the Aussies, though.

The Aussies almost tied ...

Posted by: Forza Milan! Jun 14 2014, 12:23 AM

QUOTE (arivanjj @ Jun 14 2014, 12:49 AM) *
utterly disappointing first 30 from socceroos. still in it though

Missed the first half. They seem to be doing a lot better now ...

Posted by: acid911 Jun 14 2014, 12:33 AM

QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Jun 14 2014, 05:11 AM) *
The Aussies almost tied ...

Doesn't surprise me. king.gif The Aussies are the greatest nation in sports, they take athletics and fitness very seriously, and when they get into a sport, they always give their best. Cricket, hockey, football. Not my favorite team by any count, but I've always gotten behind them in all World Cups I've seen them play. Respect.

Posted by: acid911 Jun 14 2014, 12:42 AM

QUOTE (William405 @ Jun 13 2014, 01:53 AM) *
Thiago silva is only player I really like in this brazilian squad.

And well, Hernanes. smile.gif And Caesar. The three I care about, the rest are mostly fluff.

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 13 2014, 02:54 AM) *
If all 11 of them were Milan starters I still wouldn't want them to win. I support Milan. Not Italy.

Haha, vintage Danny. biggrin.gif I don't mind Italy all that much, in fact, I consider them the only real and traditional rival to Brazil. But I'd rather them not win this one, I'd rather them not even come close. Because if they do, they have the potential to go all the way. And considering 2006, nah, some other team, please.

Posted by: Danny Jun 14 2014, 01:01 AM

4 matches in and it's been a sparkling feast of football, maybe Mexico and Cameroon match aside.

Loving this tournament, and the Spain result is why I didn't pick them for my semifinal group. After 10 minutes I could tell they just weren't going to win the match. I didn't truly predict them not getting out their group, but seriously? Real possibility of Holland and Chile progressing now.

Posted by: Danny Jun 14 2014, 01:02 AM

QUOTE (acid911 @ Jun 13 2014, 11:42 PM) *
And well, Hernanes. smile.gif And Caesar. The three I care about, the rest are mostly fluff.


Haha, vintage Danny. biggrin.gif I don't mind Italy all that much, in fact, I consider them the only real and traditional rival to Brazil. But I'd rather them not win this one, I'd rather them not even come close. Because if they do, they have the potential to go all the way. And considering 2006, nah, some other team, please.


I don't actually hate Italy that much, albeit like you I sure don't want them winning this tournament. But I definitely dislike England and Spain way more hence I will be supporting Italy tomorrow night.

Posted by: acid911 Jun 14 2014, 01:10 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 14 2014, 06:02 AM) *
I don't actually hate Italy that much, albeit like you I sure don't want them winning this tournament. But I definitely dislike England and Spain way more hence I will be supporting Italy tomorrow night.

Ha, fair enough. smile.gif I'm okay with England going to the quarter at least. Better option than Germany, any given four years cycle. Thing with Italy and Germany is that they are awfully hard to stop once they get going. Both are teams with history and tradition, unlike say Spain, which I absolutely don't care an iota about.

Unless, when they are getting humbled, hammer and humiliated like today. tongue.gif Then I do care about them.

Posted by: acid911 Jun 14 2014, 01:11 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 14 2014, 06:01 AM) *
I didn't truly predict them not getting out their group, but seriously? Real possibility of Holland and Chile progressing now.

Real possibility, indeed. mellow.gif Now only if this happened to Germany too.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 14 2014, 01:18 AM

Chile look crap, Spain will kill them.

Posted by: dst Jun 14 2014, 01:18 AM

That was so satisfying!!

Also, congrats FIFA for deciding to use the Hawk-Eye technology, you're only a decade behind tennis. Well, you're half a century behind most sports in every other aspect so I guess that's a good thing for you.

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