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Posted by: han2503 Nov 17 2017, 10:01 PM

Football is really failing me atm. After the big Azzurri disappointment. All that's left to do now is a big drubbing from Napoli and I'm set

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Nov 18 2017, 12:55 PM

Yeah well when you've supported Newcastle for as long as I have, losing to a better team really doesn't prick as much. The problem with you glory-hunting bandwagoning fans is you lot can't handle disappointment!!

One ***-whopping coming up here. Gazetta has us with a 3-5-1-1 again. Bonaventura back and Kalinic and Suso as forwards. Disaster awaits as their three forwards go against our 3-man backline. Montolivo (who is rumoured to be starting) will need to have the game of his Milan career for us to win this one.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Nov 18 2017, 09:30 PM

At least it's only 1-0 down. They ripped us through the middle and the ball has barely left our half. Happy happy, joy joy!

Posted by: han2503 Nov 18 2017, 09:59 PM

As expected

Just tuned in

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Nov 18 2017, 10:19 PM

What to do.. such a sad game.

Posted by: maldini03 Nov 18 2017, 10:24 PM

They were playing with some real vigor there for a bit but after that second goal, I feel its over. Hopefully, it doesn't get too ugly.

Money was clearly spent on the wrong players this summer. Just goes to show me not to get too excited by a name. Locatelli our best player by a mile out there. Donna also doing what he can, making some amazing saves. Everyone else is bad with a few mediocre exceptions. Very disappointing but not unexpected I must say.

I'm with you han, between Italy and Milan it has been very rough. This year started so well but has gone downhill completely.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 18 2017, 10:34 PM

One thing that's encouraging is our defence. I know, I know, we conceded twice. But that has more to do with the general disorganization in front of the back 3 rather than the back 3 themselves.

Bonucci in both the Italy games and our last few has shown that he's steadily regaining his form, which is a relief to see while Romagnoli is going from strength to strength since he's come back. I've really liked what I've seen from him in recent weeks.

The rest is basically down the sh!tter. But honestly, I don't think the players are the problem right now, Montella is creating more problems than there needs to be, anyone could have told you that the 3-5-1-1 formation with Bona in the WB position wasn't going to work, just like it hasn't worked each time we've tried it before this season. Suso simply disappears in that SS position, our most lethal player and you play him in a position that he clearly struggles in? Just makes absolutely no sense

Posted by: han2503 Nov 18 2017, 10:37 PM

What a goal from Romagnoli though

Posted by: han2503 Nov 18 2017, 10:42 PM

Finished.

I wouldn't say it was bad. We've played much worse before on this ground

But once again, we could have done so much better had Montella made the correct decisions. The Kalinic fascination is also annoying. Silva was so much more involved when he came on, he get's stuck in, he can hold up play, he can dribble and pass the ball forward well. I really want to see him start next weekend, he deserves it more than Kalinic, who imo was the worst buy of the summer

Posted by: maldini03 Nov 18 2017, 10:46 PM

For me, Biglia was worse money. We are significantly better when he doesn't play.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 18 2017, 11:42 PM

So far, it's without a question Kessie for me. But he's the youngest of the 3, so he still has time to become better.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 18 2017, 11:55 PM

And one more thing. Progress or not, this management is really becoming a joke; IMO we’re worse then the last few seasons. Mentally weak and completely instable; tactically confused and not guided well. How Montella is still a Milan coach is beyond me. Can someone please tell me when we last lost agains ALL rivals - Lazio, Roma, Inter, Juventus and now Napoli. Shameful. Berlusconi turned into a buffoon but he still would have solved this Montella mess weeks ago...

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 19 2017, 07:32 PM

It's quite tragic that our season is already over when we're only in November and we spent 240M this summer. In the past it used to be tragicomic, but this time it's simply tragic. No words.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 19 2017, 08:05 PM

Sure Berlusconi would have gotten rid of him, but then proceeded to appoint Pancaro or Panucci or some other random ex player to succeed Montella...

Look, I agree that Montella's time is way up, and that the longer he stays the greater the damage will be, but I don't see any clear alternatives at the moment, at least not ones who are better than Montella. I think they're going to give him this season because they know it's lost anyways to avoid more changes and then get someone new in the summer, Conte being the man mentioned the most right now, and I have to say that he'd be perfect for the job and an absolute dream to have on board.


Yep

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Nov 20 2017, 01:05 PM

I think so as well. I think Montella unless Europa looks to be in danger will be the coach for the season. I expect the coaches in contention to be between Marco Giampaolo, Conte and Ancelotti.

The latter two will be harder to win over because of obvious interest from large clubs. Rumours that Ancelotti might be asked back again at Real Madrid. And Conte's rumours of being fired are purely because of rumours that Abramovic is done with him. But results are turning around for Chelsea now.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 21 2017, 06:09 PM

No, I think Conte himself said he'd like to return to Italy. Anyway, I think this logic is pretty stupid. Unless we have a sealed agreement with one big coach like Ancelotti or Conte keeping Montella makes zero sense. Squandering this season and infesting the new players with the bad loser mentality routine is not what we need.

Giampaolo? I don't know. This is a wild guess. But I'm really tired of coaches alla Montella, Giampaolo, etc. When was the last time Milan appointed a coach with pedigree, with titles and results?

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 22 2017, 12:29 AM

2001.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 22 2017, 01:58 AM

I really think it's time.

What makes me worrisome is the constant reports (not just tabloids, but very serious articles from news agencies) of Milan being in financial danger after the takeover. I think this is the crucial point here; either we're gonna shake off these rumors and problems and offer a viable plan to a new ambitious coach or we're gonna start spiraling downwards.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 26 2017, 04:16 PM

Anyone watching?

A crucial problems lies within Montella. I'm not sure if we're holding onto him for just this season, but I'm pretty sure that had we got rid of him at the beginning Milan would have been in a much better competitive position. Now it's September and we're practically out of all chances to play the CL (unless we win the Europa League, which is quite unlikely - we're probably get run over by BVB or someone else).

Montella is missing to inspire and move our players both individually and collectively. Not able to find the best spots for certain (important) players, not able to find the right team mentality and goals. Also not able to let the team play well, organize a thought-through intelligent gameplan. IMO he has to go and we gotta find a interim coach for the rest of the season. Panucci, Brocchi or whoever. I don't care. Montella simply has lost it.

But on top of this I think other problems pop out as well. I know some of you guys will jump to the argument that this is a brand new team, 10 players, bla bla bla... But I've watched football too long now to know that there's always more then just one problem or angle. Yes, this is a new team. Yes, the coach failed in producing the necessary cohesion. But I also think our transfer campaign failed miserably.

I'm not the one to gloat or shout "I told you so", but I was for the most part right I think (and so was Danny). Bonucci is a special case, I think he'll be regaining form and will turn into a real asset for us in the future - that is if we have one. But the other buys turned out very unimpressive. Musacchio is solid, but shaky for the experience he has; should have. Rodriguez is a good option and probably by far our best catch.

Kessie whom I expected great things is rapidly turning into a "Kondogbia buy" for us. A "jack of all trades" player who IMO has little room to improve and become good in modern football. Calhanoglou is exactly how I remember him from the Leverkusen days - a typical product of Balkan mentality - talented, very gifted but lazy, moody and completely unpredictable. Biglia IMO was a fair shot and might turn out okay just yet, but I do fear that he's past his prime and not really up to it.

Andre Silva (although too soon to assess) is also raising some serious questions. Just like I warned, Silva is reproducing his Portugal form - scoring against the various Austria Wien and Rijeka teams, while at the same time not scoring a single goal in the league.

To be fair, Montella created several problems by himself (sidelining Bacca and now suffering the consequences with a roster of inferior attackers). Yet in the end our bold transfer campaign misfired: I fear that on top of Montella obviously not being the kind of coach that will make us thrive, we've not managed to hit the right mixture, the right balance of players and we still lack the same components we're lacking for years (only perhaps in smaller doses).

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 26 2017, 04:17 PM

Probably talking to myself here...

Posted by: maldini03 Nov 26 2017, 05:27 PM

This ^ we gave him all the tools. We brought in a new crop and we gave him time to build. We didn't have time to waste, but we wasted it anyway - should have pulled the trigger when things began to get rough.



I think that this is part of the problem that bleeds into your next point, but I agree. At this point we need someone to galvanize these players and get them headed in the right direction mentally otherwise we wont be getting a coach with any real pedigree.



This is easier to say in hindsight, but I think for the most part you are right, we started the summer looking good. Wanting X player for X amount and getting the deals done but at the end, the train came off the tracks.



The defensive signings I'm okay with. Conti getting a serious injury was unforeseeable, RR has been good, Mussachio was signed before the rest and at the time was a good signing to pair with Romag. Then we got Bonucci and his position was one he has to fight for. Bonucci will be an asset goign forward. Today he actually looked really good as did the defense as a whole.




I disagree with the Kessie criticism I am seeing a good amount of on here. He is a very talented player and is just a kid. Look at Diawara for Napoli, he is the same kind of player but he has had a year to come off the bench with no responsibility. We have placed a world of pressure on Kessie, and although he has had lapses, for the most part, he has been solid. You can't expect him to singlehandedly be the creator, enforcer, and box to box. His is a new type of position that only a few coaches really know how to get the best from. Kondogbia has been good in Spain - with the right system and the right players around him he can become something special. Hell, look at who Pogba got to play next to. Pirlo and Vidal (a near perfect tandem). The guy had no responsibilities in that team and in that environment, he thrived.



Silva I was never sold on for the present but hopefully, he will come good in the future. I am concerned mostly about his position on the field. I can't really figure out where he is supposed to be playing and that makes me a little nervous. But, he is still young and has the potential to be a starting striker. If not, hopefully a few good appearances from him in the WC, and a few more goals this year will keep his value high.


I watched the game too Fillipo and I think you bring up some great points. Today Kessie played well along with the defense and especially Montolivo. The problems for me mostly lie with the coach. He can't figure out a way to get these guys to play cohesively. He is wasting the potential of a guy like Kessie. The formation and constant changing is stupid. A guy plays well one game and sits the next makes absolutely no sense. For me, Locatelli was our best player against Napoli. I missed the midweek game but if he is playing well he should play every game. I think Montella has gotten too worried about who the players are and has lost sight of what he was all about. Everyone should earn their start. I don't care if we dropped 20M on a guy he shouldn't play if he is playing poorly and I'd guess that is what made some of the "senators" mad about this season.

Last year Bona and Suso were our best players. This year Hakan comes in and starts over Bona. That doesn't make any sense. Ditto the Kalinic - Cutrone situation.

Kalinic, Biglia, Hakan hell even Silva seem like stupid money. For what we spent on those three we could have gotten a real do it all forward like Belotti and a real midfielder who could make us better. The rest could have been spent on picking up young hungry players to build the team for the future.

5 years ago we spent money the same way, just gap filling the perceived holes (think Honda, Menez, Adriano etc.)- then we seemed to get smarter. Romagnoli, promoting our own youth, Bonaventura, Suso these were good deals for players that would help us create something. Then money came in and they said throw it at players with a name instead of a guy who is going to grow with what we are already building.

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Nov 27 2017, 12:11 PM

Coach sacked.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Nov 27 2017, 01:16 PM

Montella off, now we can start commentary again. I'm glad. Nothing has been lost yet.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Nov 27 2017, 02:17 PM

Montella fired has less to do with Montella and everything to do with kicking the players out of their complacency. I saw the last game. I don't know if you can blame Montella when players miss sitters. Let's face it their GK was MotM. The players are the ones missing that extra 10% and firing the coach will send a message to the players I hope.

That said Gattuso was probably the worst hire we could have done. No experience. No winning experience. Seems a simple fan pleasing initiative and even worse apparently we didn't even have the class to tell Montella face to face. Sending a collaborator instead.

I hate to say it but considering the players we have brought in, the lack of tactical identity and considering we were not so clueless last season should it have been Mirabelli out and not Montella out?

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Nov 27 2017, 02:43 PM

23th different formation in the last 23 games tells everything about Montella.

I agree that the players are underperforming and hopefully a new coach will bring the better in them. Personally I like Conte or Ancelotti, but I dont mind Gattusso till the end of the season.

Our problem is not quality IMO, it's mentality.

And lets see if Gattuso can solve this mess.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Nov 27 2017, 03:16 PM

What's the point of mentality if they have no game intelligence. Gattuso has been terrible with all the teams he has ever coached. I don't even know if he is tactically astute. I have to assume he learnt something in Coverciano. I'd rather have Nesta or even Seedorf than Rino. Let him do our youth team, then move to a lower Serie A side and keep going.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 27 2017, 03:46 PM

I think Gattuso is just for the remainder of this season. Hopefully, yes?

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 27 2017, 04:19 PM

Depends how well he'll perform.

Oh, and delighted for Montella's sacking. Too bad it was too late. The maximum we can achieve at this point is Europa League.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 27 2017, 04:20 PM

Weren't you positive that we would get better with time? That we'd have to be patient with Montella? Changed your mind at last?

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Nov 27 2017, 04:42 PM

Well, I disagree with d'Arc's comment that it was the 23rd different formation. It was mostly the 23rd different lineup. To be fair it's been difficult with injuries. Conti and RR are our starting fullbacks. Biglia is meant to be our main regista etc etc.

Just to re-state, firing Montella was not just because our tactics were pathetically stagnant - but more to do with the fact that the players seemed to be not responding. At least some of the blame needs to go on the players and they needed this kind of ***-kicking. A new coach automatically means no one can assume themselves to be safe selections of the coach's favourites. Everyone starts from scratch and earns their place. Players performing poorly because they lost faith in the coach now try and step up their game etc. etc.


I'd have taken Bielsa though to be honest. But he's such a hipster, I wouldn't be surprised if he benched Bonucci, started Verghara and played Antonio Donarumma as a left winger.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 28 2017, 09:53 AM

All in all I think it was the right decision. But sadly IMO Milan's situation is much more complex and dire. It's not just the coach.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Nov 28 2017, 12:02 PM

Mirabelli out?!

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 28 2017, 12:29 PM

It's the mentality. That hasn't changed yet

Look at Inter. With just a few questionable additions from last season (Skrinar, Vecino, Borja Valero etc.) they've completely turned the tables and keep on winning game after game. Why? Because Spalletti was able to do what the previous coaches weren't able to, i.e. get the best out of their players.

A capable coach is key, especially when you're re-building from scratch. Keeping Montella this summer was a big mistake.

Posted by: maldini03 Nov 28 2017, 01:41 PM

I think, at the very least, Gattuso will light a fire under the players. He can be a motivator, and I have read that when he was coaching Pisa I believe he had a consistently impressive defense. We need to start somewhere, our defense is our strongest unit so I think he will turn good for us. Hopefully, he can bring the best out of this group.

When you watch us play, everything seems so lazy. No movement no one making runs. I think if Gattuso sees that he will rip someone's head off. That is the main hope of course

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Nov 28 2017, 10:18 PM

True, until I saw that the squad didn't react after the wins vs Chievo and Austria. From that moment I saw that we need something to change even if that meant for us to get a less competent tactican than Montella. I think Gattuso can keep the spirit up until the end of the season, even though I think we might just become more caotic.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 28 2017, 11:04 PM

I hope he at least makes better player selections.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 29 2017, 09:03 PM

Thankfully he’s gone now. Sometimes it’s the coach, other times it’s the players and sometimes it’s a combination of both. But this time I really have to lay the blame at his feet.

Maldini03 said it best about his constant nonsensical changes. I just do not get why he kept changing things around in each game. He wasted the entire pre-season doing this and then continued well into the season without knowing his best 11 and formation to suit that 11.


I really do think these players are much better than they look now. I think someone like Rino will definitely inspire more out of them, I just question his tactical know how.


I still disagree about the transfer campaign, and for me, the one major blunder is still Kalinic, but I still feel like the rest have heaps of talent and are all still so young that they’ll come good if coached right. Kalinic is simply not clicking with his team mates. And this from a striker who over the years has shown that he can be a great team player and is more of a team contributor than he is a goal scorer. Maybe this is just a general problem with the tactics Montella was deploying, which were leaving our strikers isolated and trying to scrounge for scraps, but Kalinic had chances on Sunday which he proceeded to squander, thus getting the fans on his back as well now. I think Cutrone and Silva work much better together from what I’ve seen so far also.

Disagree about Kessie. And this coming from someone who has also been very critical of him. I don’t think he’s being used correctly and I also think that Montella has placed too much responsibility on his shoulders. If Rino switches to a 3-4-3 (which I’ve seen some rumblings of we can play a Biglia-Monto/Loca tandem in the centre of the midfield thus relieving Kessie for certain games. He’s been one of our most used players and a bit of a reality check plus res will do him a world of wonder imo

Hakan for me is still a question mark. He’s been used sporadically and each time he’s occupying different roles and positions in the team. I’d really like to see more of him but that depends on what formation Rino will be using. The next game against Benevento will be really interesting in this regard


I actually think Andre is the most talented player we signed this window, it’s just that at this point in time it’s still mostly all raw talent. He displays so much skill on the ball, he awareness and movement actually remind me of Sheva. But we all tend to forget that he’s still so young, just like Kessie. Also, he’s been used very sparsely in the league while he started in all the EL games. So of course he’s have better numbers in that competition. It will be really interesting to see him develop because I really think he’ll come good under the right guidance.

Really? Bacca?
Bacca was awful last season, and he certainly wouldn’t have performed any better than what our strikers are doing now had he still been with us. Last season he was lazy, petulant and his characteristics simply don’t fit into what we want. Cutrone is just as deadly a poacher as he is, works his @ss off and is a much better all rounder while also keeping his head down and not complaining about everything.
Montella created problems for himself during pre-season, that’s how long this has been coming.

Just look at the back 3 for a simple example. Why has he been changing that back 3 for practically each game we’ve played? One day it’s Zapata, the next it’s Musacchio, another time he starts Rodriguez and so on and so fourth. Just makes no sense! Stick to your best 3, which are Bonucci, Romagnoli and Musacchio, and when there is an injury or suspension replace them with the second best option it’s only logic. And why does the left sided CB need to be a lefty? I don’t get that obsession either. Many teams who play with a back 3 don’t always play a left on the left of the 3, but when Romagnoli is out Rodriguez replaces him, because god forbid Zapata or Musacchio are shifted to that side.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 29 2017, 09:11 PM

THIS!

And I wouldn't even categorize Spalletti under the master tactician cap either, but he seems to have clicked completely with that Inter side and they've been absolutely lethal this season

Re Montella; well with hindsight we can always say that it was a mistake. But in the summer we were all for keeping him. Why? Because he had done well the previous season, we wanted the continuity that we haven't had for a while now and he was getting his team early, which meant time to get the wheel turning smoothly

Sadly he wasted pre-season, and he's just allowed the situation to spiral out of his control. The players are clearly unhappy and that has showed on the pitch for a while now.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Nov 30 2017, 10:46 AM

Dear han,

Our best back 3 is

--Zapta--Bonucci---Romagnoli----


Fight me! I know jiu-jitsu!

Posted by: han2503 Nov 30 2017, 08:26 PM

Zapata is a constant mistake waiting to happen

He's proven this time and time again over the years. Sorry, he's a decent stopper but the mistakes outweigh all that

Musacchio is simply another victim of the constant rotation deployed under Montella. Overall he's much better and more reliable than Zapata

Zapata is good to have as the direct back up for both Musacchio and Romagnoli though. He's just not to be trusted in a consistent starting role because he will make you regret it

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 10 2017, 11:55 AM

I rather think it's a combination. I've said it numerous times, half of our team is simply inflicted with loser mentality and a altogether negative attitude that goes way further then just Montella.


I'm not so sure. I think we're all overvaluing players like Bonaventura or the (already gone) De Sciglio. These players never even played the CL for God's sake! If we want to seriously step up we have to, step by step, replace our current "leaders" with real ones. Look at PSG for example. They were a mediocre team at first with two gems - Nene who was their creative alpha and omega (plus a veteran Giuly) and Hoarau as a poacher. Already in the second season of the big takeover both were ready to be replaced by bigger names; in came players like Lavezzi, Menez, etc. Then next season these guys were also ready to be replaced by Cavani, Lucas, etc. We have to start doing that. I'm telling you, Bonaventura is a good player but he's (IMO) a classic jack of all trades - solid shooting, solid passing, solid free kicks, solid accuracy, etc - but none of these characteristics is at top level nor will it ever be. We should stop breaking our head with solutions of how to integrate these kinds of former leaders in our team and coming this winter and next summer we should ship them off and get younger, greedier, more talented and more ambitious players.


I think we did a lot of business but it's evident that we didn't hit the right balance. Not all the blame should go on Montella. Clearly he had one vision of the team and our transfer moves and the signings we made enabled a completely different vision. All I'm saying is that we didn't hit the right mix. Kalinić is a fail and we should have kept Bacca because he's better then Kalinić, with all his downsides. Biglia is another mistake. Keeping Montolivo and adding Hakan yet another. Etc etc.


Perhaps. I give you that. But so far he hasn't played one consistently good game, yet managed to make serious mistakes. He also lacks intelligence and technique, which is worrisome IMO.


Simply put - Hakan is a waste of time. I've been there, I've seen enough of him in the Buliga and know that now he's doing just that. He's the kind of player that never let's you think he's complete garbage because he'll do a trick or two, make a spectacular game and be saved by the bell. But he's unreliable, he's lazy, moody and completely inadequate for an ambitious team.


Bacca was bad, yet managed to score a couple of goals. And Bacca was mostly bad because he has been sidelined by Montella and labeled as not suitable for his system. Okay, he behaved like a crybaby. But did Montella's "new" system ever work in that regard? No. Did we find a suitable substitution for Bacca? No. And finally, are Cutrone, Kalinić, Lapadula, etc. better then Bacca? No. Sorry. My logic is that unless you have a better option at hand or unless you are able to sign a better player - you should stick to the one that is best and you already have.

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 10 2017, 01:55 PM

Kalinic was a mistake from the get go, I think we can all agree there.

The deal is that once we started signing players left and right we sort of hoped that all these new players would help us turn the tide. I remember I was completely against signing Biglia in the beginning. But once we signed 6-7 players I thought Biglia would be nice addition.

And this is where the problem lies. We signed way too many players none of which can be considered top material. Instead, we should have focused on signing 5-6 top players. We went for quantity over quality, and that was Fassone and Mirabelli's mistake.

Musacchio, Kessie, Rodriguez. All very good signing IMO. Next should have been a Fabregas in midfield, a quality left winger and a top striker. Why spend almost 70M for Hakan and Silva when we could have spent that money + Niang for Belotti? And part of the 45M for Bonucci could have very well been spent for a left winger.