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AC Milan - Milanfan.com _ Football Discussion _ [CL] Champions League 2017-18

Posted by: han2503 Aug 12 2016, 04:06 PM

All CL talk for the new season here

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 23 2016, 11:34 PM

Pretty inexcusable from Roma, especially someone as experienced as De Rossi who practically condemned his team with such an idiotic foul.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 24 2016, 06:26 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Aug 23 2016, 11:34 PM) *
Pretty inexcusable from Roma, especially someone as experienced as De Rossi who practically condemned his team with such an idiotic foul.

But very typical for them, so it's no surprise. I only saw the first half but red card or not, they were already doing their utter best to ruin their chances.

That being said, it's good they're in the EL, they'll rack up some decent co-efficient points for the league instead of getting through to the CL, being unseeded and getting KO'd in an impossible group.

However, with all that said, this:

QUOTE
New @ChampionsLeague format starting in 2018/2019. 4 clubs from Spain, England, Germany and Italy will go directly into the group stage. The 4th team on historical merit.


will be coming into play in a few years so it won't really matter

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 24 2016, 01:18 PM

Is that confirmed? Sounds very strange? What does historical merit exactly mean?

Anyway, stupid by De Rossi, but like han said, by no way unexpected. Especially De Rossi who's stopped being a regularly good player long time ago and is now always up to such shenanigans.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 24 2016, 08:09 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Aug 24 2016, 01:18 PM) *
Is that confirmed? Sounds very strange? What does historical merit exactly mean?

Anyway, stupid by De Rossi, but like han said, by no way unexpected. Especially De Rossi who's stopped being a regularly good player long time ago and is now always up to such shenanigans.

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/blog/marcotti-musings/62/post/2930404/uefa-champions-league-structural-changes-as-explained-by-gab-marcotti

From what I can understand it's pending final approval and they agreed to this because the big clubs were threatening a break-away league

From what I can understand it will be the 4 biggest leagues (historically) getting 4 automatic spots without any qualifying rounds

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 25 2016, 09:52 AM

Good for us.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Aug 25 2016, 10:29 AM

Maybe. But we don't deserve to be. The top 5 of England and Spain are better than the top 3 of the other leagues if taken cumulatively. FFS, Roma can't even get past Porto.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 25 2016, 12:29 PM

It's hard to say who deserves to pass and who doesn't. That kind of criteria won't bring us anywhere, because by today's standards the EPL is almost stronger then the CL. Also, yesterday I watched Dinamo Zagreb and Red Bull Salzburg: do these two teams deserve to be in the CL? Compared to both Porto and Roma they are miles away. So, the system with weaker opponents fighting each others while Italian, French, Spanish and Portugese clubs are bound to face each other is also unfair.

From what I can think, this change of rules will give clubs like Roma, Napoli, etc more breathing space, a more secure environment that will ultimately make them stronger and more adapted to CL football.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 25 2016, 03:42 PM

It's kinda sad though that what will eventually bring us back to the CL are new rules rather than our own strengths, unless by some miracle we finish 3rd this season.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 25 2016, 07:58 PM

QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Aug 25 2016, 10:29 AM) *
Maybe. But we don't deserve to be. The top 5 of England and Spain are better than the top 3 of the other leagues if taken cumulatively. FFS, Roma can't even get past Porto.

Nah, England is basically just steam rolling everyone because of all the money in the league. When you have relegation contenders battling it out for the best players simply because they can and are financially stronger than clubs in Italy/Germany/Spain (outside of Real and Barca), then you know you have a problem. The EPL has skewed things so widely that it's going to become a one horse race if things in the other leagues do not improve.

This is fair. Italy has historically been stronger in Europe than England and despite all of it's financial/structural short-comings is still putting teams in the competition that are doing better than their English counter-parts and aren't so far off from England in the co-efficients.

What this does though is continue to beat down the smaller clubs and clubs from France and Portugal

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Aug 25 2016, 12:29 PM) *
It's hard to say who deserves to pass and who doesn't. That kind of criteria won't bring us anywhere, because by today's standards the EPL is almost stronger then the CL. Also, yesterday I watched Dinamo Zagreb and Red Bull Salzburg: do these two teams deserve to be in the CL? Compared to both Porto and Roma they are miles away. So, the system with weaker opponents fighting each others while Italian, French, Spanish and Portugese clubs are bound to face each other is also unfair.

From what I can think, this change of rules will give clubs like Roma, Napoli, etc more breathing space, a more secure environment that will ultimately make them stronger and more adapted to CL football.

Agreed. Plus I think the entire co-efficient system is BS. The fact that Germany took Italy's spot because their teams were doing well in the EL league while Italian teams were winning the CL but were shitty in the EL says it all

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Aug 25 2016, 03:42 PM) *
It's kinda sad though that what will eventually bring us back to the CL are new rules rather than our own strengths, unless by some miracle we finish 3rd this season.

First we have to make it to 4th. We're not even capable of getting into the EL atm, so we'll see if this will even effect us

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Aug 26 2016, 10:55 AM

Official: The top four clubs from the four top-ranked leagues will qualify automatically for the group stage of the UEFA Champions League from 2018. Historical success in the competition will also be acknowledged in coefficient calculation (points for previous European titles).


Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 26 2016, 01:12 PM

Meaning what exactly? I'm still not clear on that historical success thing.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 26 2016, 07:12 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Aug 26 2016, 01:12 PM) *
Meaning what exactly? I'm still not clear on that historical success thing.

I think that in a very veiled way they're saying that England, Italy, Spain and Germany won't have an automatic qualification, technically. But with historical success coming into play when co-efficients are calculated. it's basically a default result of those 4 leagues being the top 4, with neither France, nor Portugal being able to break through.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 27 2016, 06:05 PM

Hmh. Now I get it. So it's the historical success of a country overall that will count, not the individual clubs? Okay, makes sense. What do you guys think of the changes anyway, other then that it's good for Italian football?

Posted by: han2503 Aug 27 2016, 10:31 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Aug 27 2016, 06:05 PM) *
Hmh. Now I get it. So it's the historical success of a country overall that will count, not the individual clubs? Okay, makes sense. What do you guys think of the changes anyway, other then that it's good for Italian football?

Well obviously I'm happy about this in terms of being a fan of Serie A and a team within it. But I have to say that I'd be p!ssed if I followed the French or Portuguese league. This has basically taken away any chance of them being able to advance their league and getting more teams into the CL.

It's obviously unfair for the smaller leagues, but I think it also is sort of a retribution because the current way that co-efficients are calculated is also ridiculous. Plus it will most likely make the competition more interesting in terms of pure entertainment factor.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 28 2016, 11:49 AM

Surely. Maybe it can be less of a three-club show.

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 22 2017, 10:28 PM

So, it's official. The first four teams in the Serie A will go directly to the group stages of the 2018/19 CL.

http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/calcio/championsleague/l-uefa-ufficializza-dal-2018-quattro-squadre-italiane-in-160-champions-league_1145821-201702a.shtml

We really need to step up our game so we can use such a golden opportunity. Hopefully the closing happens and the Chinese splash some money in the summer. I really miss us in the CL. sad.gif

Posted by: Danny Mar 22 2017, 10:36 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Mar 22 2017, 10:28 PM) *
So, it's official. The first four teams in the Serie A will go directly to the group stages of the 2018/19 CL.

http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/calcio/championsleague/l-uefa-ufficializza-dal-2018-quattro-squadre-italiane-in-160-champions-league_1145821-201702a.shtml

We really need to step up our game so we can use such a golden opportunity. Hopefully the closing happens and the Chinese splash some money in the summer. I really miss us in the CL. sad.gif


That's random?! No league on earth gets its first four sides directly into the group stage! Why would a spluttering Serie A suddenly be granted it!

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 22 2017, 11:04 PM

QUOTE (d'Arc.LP @ Aug 26 2016, 10:55 AM) *
Official: The top four clubs from the four top-ranked leagues will qualify automatically for the group stage of the UEFA Champions League from 2018. Historical success in the competition will also be acknowledged in coefficient calculation (points for previous European titles).


fyi

Posted by: Danny Mar 22 2017, 11:38 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Mar 22 2017, 11:04 PM) *
fyi


Ah. Thought it was Serie A only haha!

No chance we'll get fourth. None at all.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 23 2017, 07:25 PM

In two years? Why?

Posted by: han2503 Mar 24 2017, 05:24 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Mar 22 2017, 11:38 PM) *
Ah. Thought it was Serie A only haha!

No chance we'll get fourth. None at all.

We'll see what happens this summer, but top 4 is do-able if we make a couple of decent signings and hold on to our important players + Montella

Posted by: Danny Mar 25 2017, 10:33 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Mar 24 2017, 05:24 PM) *
We'll see what happens this summer, but top 4 is do-able if we make a couple of decent signings and hold on to our important players + Montella


I misread. I thought the thing started next season - 2017/2018.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 26 2017, 06:56 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Mar 25 2017, 10:33 PM) *
I misread. I thought the thing started next season - 2017/2018.

Well the top 4 in 17/18 will go directly into the CL for the 18/19 season

Posted by: Danny Mar 26 2017, 01:10 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Mar 26 2017, 06:56 AM) *
Well the top 4 in 17/18 will go directly into the CL for the 18/19 season


Yeah as in I thought the 4th place finish was required this season, not next.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 26 2017, 03:36 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Mar 26 2017, 01:10 PM) *
Yeah as in I thought the 4th place finish was required this season, not next.

Ah, gotcha.

A decent mercato next summer (meaning no more Galliani favours and flops) and we'll get 4th under Montella, I'm pretty confident in that considering what we've seen of him this season with the limited resources he has been afforded

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 26 2017, 09:51 PM

You never know. Roma, Napoli and Inter constitute a serious threat for the 2-4 positions. We'll have to do our maximum and more if we want to attain CL football after two years.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 27 2017, 10:21 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Mar 26 2017, 09:51 PM) *
You never know. Roma, Napoli and Inter constitute a serious threat for the 2-4 positions. We'll have to do our maximum and more if we want to attain CL football after two years.

Roma and Napoli always end up selling (Roma especially). If we can make 3 or 4 important signings I think we'll definitely be in the mix

Inter imo are looking to be the real deal

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Mar 31 2017, 07:02 AM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Mar 27 2017, 04:51 PM) *
Roma and Napoli always end up selling (Roma especially). If we can make 3 or 4 important signings I think we'll definitely be in the mix

Inter imo are looking to be the real deal


That club is a mad house. They have the new manager honeymoon period going on. I'm fairly sure they'll screw up next season.

Posted by: X-Offender Apr 1 2017, 01:23 PM

QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Mar 31 2017, 07:02 AM) *
That club is a mad house. They have the new manager honeymoon period going on. I'm fairly sure they'll screw up next season.


Point is, player-wise they have a darn good team. They only lacked a true organizing hand. Mancini is terrible, and De Boer was simply a bad choice. But now with Pioli they seem have found their footing, and they can only keep getting better IMO.

Posted by: han2503 Apr 1 2017, 03:49 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 1 2017, 01:23 PM) *
Point is, player-wise they have a darn good team. They only lacked a true organizing hand. Mancini is terrible, and De Boer was simply a bad choice. But now with Pioli they seem have found their footing, and they can only keep getting better IMO.

Agreed, I think they'll make a big splash this summer and will be a strong force next season

Posted by: Danny Apr 2 2017, 11:05 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 1 2017, 01:23 PM) *
Point is, player-wise they have a darn good team. They only lacked a true organizing hand. Mancini is terrible, and De Boer was simply a bad choice. But now with Pioli they seem have found their footing, and they can only keep getting better IMO.


We thought the same about ourselves only 6 months ago. It can change, quickly.

Posted by: han2503 Apr 18 2017, 09:57 PM

I know this thread is dead, but I just have to say

Bayern have been screwed trice over in this tie!


Posted by: X-Offender Apr 18 2017, 09:58 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Apr 18 2017, 09:57 PM) *
I know this thread is dead, but I just have to say

Bayern have been screwed trice over in this tie!


I was just about to post. Most offside goal in CL history? laugh.gif

Posted by: han2503 Apr 18 2017, 10:00 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 18 2017, 09:58 PM) *
I was just about to post. Most offside goal in CL history? laugh.gif

That, the bad sending offs in both games, Lewandowski judged off side in the first half when he was clean through while he was onside and Casemiro still being on the pitch after the fouling and diving. Honestly, I'm just disgusted with some of the officiating I've seen throughout these knock-out games

Personally I'm all for Barca going through tomorrow, but I'm sort of anticipating some sort of terrible call that will also screw Juve out of this

Posted by: han2503 Apr 18 2017, 10:03 PM

I feel very sorry for Bayern and Carlo having just watched this. It generally leaves a bitter taste in the mouth for the neutral watcher.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Apr 18 2017, 11:20 PM

Very bitter. Very. Makes me wanna turn off the TV and say goodbye to CL this year.

Posted by: Danny Apr 18 2017, 11:47 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Apr 18 2017, 10:03 PM) *
I feel very sorry for Bayern and Carlo having just watched this. It generally leaves a bitter taste in the mouth for the neutral watcher.


In the first leg fair enough, Real were the better team. Not by a lot, but they were.

But tonight was borderline dishonesty - the red card that wasn't and the offside goal. I had Bayern pegged as winning this thing, and they probably would have had Uefa favoured them.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Apr 18 2017, 11:59 PM

Yep, it's a disgrace. Can't remember the last time a team went through such a treatment in the late phases of the CL. Probably the Chelsea-Barcelona thing.

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Apr 19 2017, 06:25 AM

There is clearly something wrong in UEFA. As 3-4 key decision going in favor of one makes no sense at all.

Posted by: X-Offender Apr 19 2017, 11:45 AM

QUOTE (CrazyMilanFan @ Apr 19 2017, 06:25 AM) *
There is clearly something wrong in UEFA. As 3-4 key decision going in favor of one makes no sense at all.


I think the refereeing was just crap. Bayern's second goal was also offside, I read.

But still, Ronaldo's first offside goal. How the hell can you miss that? That linesman should never officiate again.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Apr 19 2017, 12:22 PM

Second goal? How can an owngoal be offside?

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Apr 19 2017, 01:37 PM

Carlo has nothing to prove, Bayern were tactically on point and if not for the wrongly given second yellow to Vidal, where he was sent off for getting to the ball first!

Then obviously what was highlighted above as referee short comings.

I think it is fair to say Madrid had influence over the fixture.

Posted by: X-Offender Apr 19 2017, 09:42 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Apr 19 2017, 12:22 PM) *
Second goal? How can an owngoal be offside?


Apparently Muller was offside in the beginning.

Posted by: Danny Apr 19 2017, 10:41 PM

As a football fan, part of me thinks Juve, or specifically Buffon deserves to win this thing. I hate them but you have to admire what they've achieved under Allegri - he's proved everyone (apart from me and Kurt) utterly wrong about him and he's taken Juve beyond Conte.

Four teams left and it's anyone's at this point.

Posted by: X-Offender Apr 20 2017, 10:05 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Apr 19 2017, 10:41 PM) *
As a football fan, part of me thinks Juve, or specifically Buffon deserves to win this thing. I hate them but you have to admire what they've achieved under Allegri - he's proved everyone (apart from me and Kurt) utterly wrong about him and he's taken Juve beyond Conte.

Four teams left and it's anyone's at this point.


+1

Aside from the Allegri bit. What exactly has he proven? That you can win with a top squad?

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Apr 21 2017, 08:16 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Apr 20 2017, 01:41 AM) *
As a football fan, part of me thinks Juve, or specifically Buffon deserves to win this thing. I hate them but you have to admire what they've achieved under Allegri - he's proved everyone (apart from me and Kurt) utterly wrong about him and he's taken Juve beyond Conte.

Four teams left and it's anyone's at this point.


Allegri benefited from his time at Milan, he did well given the resources available at Milan. And this applies to Carlo too.

What Juve is doing is something to be proud of, being the only Italian flag bearer in Europe and humbling Barca like that.

Four teams left in it alright but only one has the ref on their side.

Posted by: amancik Apr 21 2017, 01:28 PM

Agreed. Juve deserve to win the Champions League this year. Solid at the back, effective up front; probably one of the strongest balanced sides in Europe.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Apr 21 2017, 03:58 PM

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Apr 21 2017, 02:46 PM) *
Allegri benefited from his time at Milan, he did well given the resources available at Milan. And this applies to Carlo too.

What Juve is doing is something to be proud of, being the only Italian flag bearer in Europe and humbling Barca like that.

Four teams left in it alright but only one has the ref on their side.



QUOTE (amancik @ Apr 21 2017, 07:58 PM) *
Agreed. Juve deserve to win the Champions League this year. Solid at the back, effective up front; probably one of the strongest balanced sides in Europe.


I don't give a sh!t about what they deserve. This is Juve. Have they always been winning only when they deserve. F@ck em! tongue.gif I won't be mad if they win, but I'm not shedding tears either.

Posted by: X-Offender Apr 21 2017, 06:36 PM

Frankly speaking, I don't hate Juve. Sure, they're our rivals and all, but Inter ate the ones I truly detest and always want to see fail.

For Italian's football sake, as a fan, I'd like them to win. Also because I hate Madrid, too.

Posted by: Danny Apr 21 2017, 06:53 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 20 2017, 10:05 PM) *
+1

Aside from the Allegri bit. What exactly has he proven? That you can win with a top squad?


Dunno, ask Guardiola wink.gif

You and Han will never give Allegri any credit. I've embraced that.

Posted by: han2503 Apr 23 2017, 02:02 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Apr 19 2017, 10:41 PM) *
As a football fan, part of me thinks Juve, or specifically Buffon deserves to win this thing. I hate them but you have to admire what they've achieved under Allegri - he's proved everyone (apart from me and Kurt) utterly wrong about him and he's taken Juve beyond Conte.

Four teams left and it's anyone's at this point.

Sorry, but he hasn't convinced me of anything that I don't already know. He's a decent coach as long as he has a good team. Once that is compromised, forget about it

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 20 2017, 10:05 PM) *
+1

Aside from the Allegri bit. What exactly has he proven? That you can win with a top squad?

This

Posted by: han2503 Apr 23 2017, 02:03 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Apr 21 2017, 06:53 PM) *
Dunno, ask Guardiola wink.gif

You and Han will never give Allegri any credit. I've embraced that.

There are MANY others who think the same way about Allegri as we do

Oh, and how any Milan fan could entertain the idea of wanting Juve to win a CL is beyond me. Absolutely can't stand that team and their choker status in the CL is something that should be celebrated by Milan fans

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Apr 23 2017, 02:52 PM

Indeed, indeed.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Apr 24 2017, 12:46 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Apr 23 2017, 04:03 PM) *
There are MANY others who think the same way about Allegri as we do



+1

Posted by: Danny Apr 24 2017, 01:05 PM

Then they're all wrong. Sorry, but you all are tongue.gif

The guy could go to Arsenal (as looks likely now) and win the title and you'll find some way to discredit him.

And I'm bored arguing with you all about it smile.gif

PS I don't want Juve to win, I just have respect for Buffon and he personally deserves it. You know, that 18 year old's HERO? wink.gif

Posted by: Danny Apr 24 2017, 01:07 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Apr 23 2017, 02:02 PM) *
He's a decent coach as long as he has a good team. Once that is compromised, forget about it


GUARDIOLAKLOPPANCELOTTIHIDDINKMOURINHOWENGERRANIERI

Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!

biggrin.gif

Posted by: X-Offender Apr 24 2017, 07:25 PM

Sorry Danny, but the scars from Allegri's stay at Milan still hurt. The sheer atrocities he committed while managing us cannot be overshadowed by whatever success he achieves.

Unless he wins a treble. laugh.gif

Posted by: Danny Apr 24 2017, 09:11 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 24 2017, 07:25 PM) *
Sorry Danny, but the scars from Allegri's stay at Milan still hurt. The sheer atrocities he committed while managing us cannot be overshadowed by whatever success he achieves.

Unless he wins a treble. laugh.gif


And with our new-found civility I'll gracefully bow out the debate smile.gif

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Apr 25 2017, 06:25 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 25 2017, 01:55 AM) *
Sorry Danny, but the scars from Allegri's stay at Milan still hurt. The sheer atrocities he committed while managing us cannot be overshadowed by whatever success he achieves.

Unless he wins a treble. laugh.gif


I'm with Danny on this. He's a damn good coach, and he's only improved after leaving Milan. Not many coaches can deal with having their entire midfield ripped apart and given a brand new option. He's still managed to make a very capable side and have them fight.

I hope he goes to Arsenal. I daresay he will school Conte and Pep in a couple of seasons' time. Poch and Klopp might give him trouble. He's still suspect against genuine defensive pressing. But I suppose all coaches are.

Posted by: han2503 Apr 28 2017, 11:07 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Apr 24 2017, 01:05 PM) *
Then they're all wrong. Sorry, but you all are tongue.gif

The guy could go to Arsenal (as looks likely now) and win the title and you'll find some way to discredit him.

And I'm bored arguing with you all about it smile.gif

PS I don't want Juve to win, I just have respect for Buffon and he personally deserves it. You know, that 18 year old's HERO? wink.gif

The day he takes Arsenal to a title I'll eat a lemon...

And you can point out all the coaches who've had great successes with great teams all you like, but it still doesn't change OUR experiances with him as the coach of our Club. The idiocies I witnessed from him were astonishing, this is the man who played Urby f@cking Emmanuelson in the trequartista position, just because he could not deviate from a formation he likes. How anyone could defend his coaching while at Milan is beyond me

As for his time at Juve, he's had it easy from the word Go at Juve. and has barely had to use a single brain cell to do what he's done there.

Posted by: Danny Apr 29 2017, 11:22 AM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Apr 28 2017, 11:07 PM) *
The day he takes Arsenal to a title I'll eat a lemon...

And you can point out all the coaches who've had great successes with great teams all you like, but it still doesn't change OUR experiances with him as the coach of our Club. The idiocies I witnessed from him were astonishing, this is the man who played Urby f@cking Emmanuelson in the trequartista position, just because he could not deviate from a formation he likes. How anyone could defend his coaching while at Milan is beyond me

As for his time at Juve, he's had it easy from the word Go at Juve. and has barely had to use a single brain cell to do what he's done there.


Wow, if you bit a lemon, IT would make the face!

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Apr 29 2017, 12:21 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Apr 29 2017, 01:07 AM) *
The day he takes Arsenal to a title I'll eat a lemon...

And you can point out all the coaches who've had great successes with great teams all you like, but it still doesn't change OUR experiances with him as the coach of our Club. The idiocies I witnessed from him were astonishing, this is the man who played Urby f@cking Emmanuelson in the trequartista position, just because he could not deviate from a formation he likes. How anyone could defend his coaching while at Milan is beyond me

As for his time at Juve, he's had it easy from the word Go at Juve. and has barely had to use a single brain cell to do what he's done there.


Actually he played more in "Messi position" and some were considering him more than decent as a Right Winger.

Posted by: X-Offender Apr 29 2017, 12:27 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Apr 29 2017, 11:22 AM) *
Wow, if you bit a lemon, IT would make the face!


You don't agree with what he's saying?

QUOTE (d'Arc.LP @ Apr 29 2017, 12:21 PM) *
Actually he played more in "Messi position" and some were considering him more than decent as a Right Winger.


C'mon now buddy, let's not joke about it. Urby was abysmal, to say the least.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Apr 29 2017, 01:36 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 29 2017, 02:27 PM) *
You don't agree with what he's saying?



C'mon now buddy, let's not joke about it. Urby was abysmal, to say the least.


Sure biggrin.gif And he could play in so many positions, LB, LCM, LW, RW, Trequartista and SS if we were in need.

Posted by: Danny Apr 29 2017, 02:36 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 29 2017, 12:27 PM) *
You don't agree with what he's saying?


Share the lemon buddy wink.gif

Posted by: han2503 Apr 29 2017, 04:09 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Apr 29 2017, 11:22 AM) *
Wow, if you bit a lemon, IT would make the face!

Too bad that day shall never come as Max will never win a title with Arsenal (heard it hear first)

Posted by: Danny Apr 29 2017, 04:12 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Apr 29 2017, 04:09 PM) *
Too bad that day shall never come as Max will never win a title with Arsenal (heard it hear first)


*wins the UCL*

Han & X - 'it was the players wot done it' biggrin.gif

*loses a match*

Han & X - 'el oh el at Max' biggrin.gif

Posted by: han2503 Apr 29 2017, 05:16 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Apr 29 2017, 04:12 PM) *
*wins the UCL*

Han & X - 'it was the players wot done it' biggrin.gif

*loses a match*

Han & X - 'el oh el at Max' biggrin.gif

If he wins the CL, I'll consider his time at Juve a success, but it still does not negate his utter failure with us

Posted by: X-Offender Apr 29 2017, 05:50 PM

Allegri starting line-up in 2015: Buffon; Litchsteiner, Bonucci, Chiellini, Evra; Marchisio, Pirlo, Pogba, Vidal; Tevez, Morata.

Allegri starting line-up in 2017: Buffon; Dani Alves, Bonucci, Chiellini, Alex Sandro; Khedira, Pjanic; Mandzukic, Dybala, Cuadrado; Higuain.

Man, it must be so tough for a coach to win the league with such a poor selection of players.

Seriously, get real, Danny. Allegri has been steamrolling in Italy with the best team in the league, having either big-time chokers like Napoli or Roma as contenders, while Milan and Inter continue to delve into mediocrity.

His big achievement was the 2015 CL final. This time around he got dealt the easy hand, facing Porto, Monaco and a Barça side at the end of their cycle.

I will give him one thing, though. He has clearly changed mentality, as in he always wants to win regardless of the circumstances. That's a big plus for me. During his Milan days the guy was terrible in this aspect. Remember when Zlatan was about to assault him when he said in the dressing room that "the important thing is that we passed" after we had lost 3-0 to Arsenal? One of his many, many flaws back then.

Posted by: Danny Apr 29 2017, 08:05 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Apr 29 2017, 20:10 PM) *
Seriously, get real, X. Pep has been steamrolling in Spain with the best team in the league, having either big-time chokers like Valencia or Jose's Real as contenders, while Sevilla and Atletico continue to delve into mediocrity.

His big achievement was the 2009 CL success. This time around he got dealt the easy hand with a Utd side at the end of their cycle.


I could do this all night. It's my opinion X, I will respect yours even if I disagree with it. Just please don't insult me just because I won't come round to you and Han's way of thinking.

This, I swear, is my final ever post on Allegri. You won't get me discussing him on here ever again.

/peace out

Posted by: Danny Apr 29 2017, 08:06 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Apr 29 2017, 05:16 PM) *
If he wins the CL, I'll consider his time at Juve a success, but it still does not negate his utter failure with us


Let's move on my friend.

Posted by: X-Offender Apr 29 2017, 08:15 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Apr 29 2017, 08:05 PM) *
I could do this all night. It's my opinion X, I will respect yours even if I disagree with it. Just please don't insult me just because I won't come round to you and Han's way of thinking.

This, I swear, is my final ever post on Allegri. You won't get me discussing him on here ever again.

/peace out


Who's insulting you? Rather, you're the one using ironic remarks while me and Han are trying to give our own two cents on the matter.

Posted by: han2503 Apr 30 2017, 12:07 PM

Honestly don't know what you guys see in the man... Just baffling, especially after some of the embarrassments we've experienced with him as coach

Danny, I respect your opinions, you know that. I just don't understand why we can't have an adult conversation about Allegri. It's not like we're arguing here. I don't think it's as unhealthy a conversation as you think it is

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Apr 30 2017, 12:34 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 30 2017, 12:20 AM) *
I will give him one thing, though. He has clearly changed mentality, as in he always wants to win regardless of the circumstances. That's a big plus for me. During his Milan days the guy was terrible in this aspect. Remember when Zlatan was about to assault him when he said in the dressing room that "the important thing is that we passed" after we had lost 3-0 to Arsenal? One of his many, many flaws back then.


I think that's the point Danny and I are making. The same way players improve, so do coaches. And Allegri has really gone up leaps and bounds since his days at Milan. I hate to say it, but the Milan experience and disappointments has actually made him a better coach. He's gotten better at handling egos, dealing with tactics, getting flexible etc. He's not a colourful personality but he's a damn good coach.


FWIW, I think Montella will only get better too. What we have to do is ensure to give him the kind of support so he can constantly innovate and do better. The amount of games he's got under his belt as coach for his age is really good. Not too often you get young coaches with a lot of experience.

Posted by: Danny May 1 2017, 02:14 AM

@ X and Han

I love ye both, but I just don't want to talk Allegri ever again on here. It's a circular argument where no one will ever agree. So peace smile.gif

Posted by: han2503 May 1 2017, 03:53 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ May 1 2017, 02:14 AM) *
@ X and Han

I love ye both, but I just don't want to talk Allegri ever again on here. It's a circular argument where no one will ever agree. So peace smile.gif

Well going by that stand, everything on this forum is pretty circular considering how few of use regularly come here. So does that mean we shouldn't talk about anything because it tends to go in circles?

Posted by: Danny May 1 2017, 09:03 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ May 1 2017, 03:53 PM) *
Well going by that stand, everything on this forum is pretty circular considering how few of use regularly come here. So does that mean we shouldn't talk about anything because it tends to go in circles?


Han fella, don't be an *ss. Please respect my stance rather than arguing.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow May 2 2017, 12:34 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ May 1 2017, 08:44 AM) *
@ X and Han

I love ye both, but I just don't want to talk Allegri ever again on here. It's a circular argument where no one will ever agree. So peace smile.gif


Oh that's just swell. Just the both of them then. What am I Danny? A f@cking potato? dry.gif

Posted by: Danny May 2 2017, 02:09 PM

QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ May 2 2017, 12:34 PM) *
Oh that's just swell. Just the both of them then. What am I Danny? A f@cking potato? dry.gif


You sound like a lover scorned.

Posted by: Danny May 3 2017, 10:53 PM

Can't see past Juve for this. They've gone three matches in a row without conceding a goal, didn't concede any against Barca in the entire tournament, and made a very strong Monaco look frankly a bit one dimensional on their own patch.

They are about as strong as Mourinho's Inter of 2010 (maybe stronger) and I don't think even Real Madrid at their best can stop this.

God knows how Allegri's done it, he's gone beyond even my expectations, but he may just have turned them into the best club team in the world.

They are nearly impossible to break down, they score when they need to, can actually play a bit of football, and the best teams in Europe just can't score against them.

And I absolutely hate them. Going by this Serie A is decades behind them. But then it only took Jose to leave for Inter to fall apart, so if Allegri does go to Arsenal...


Posted by: Ry4n May 4 2017, 12:53 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ May 4 2017, 02:53 AM) *
Can't see past Juve for this. They've gone three matches in a row without conceding a goal, didn't concede any against Barca in the entire tournament, and made a very strong Monaco look frankly a bit one dimensional on their own patch.

They are about as strong as Mourinho's Inter of 2010 (maybe stronger) and I don't think even Real Madrid at their best can stop this.

God knows how Allegri's done it, he's gone beyond even my expectations, but he may just have turned them into the best club team in the world.

They are nearly impossible to break down, they score when they need to, can actually play a bit of football, and the best teams in Europe just can't score against them.

And I absolutely hate them. Going by this Serie A is decades behind them. But then it only took Jose to leave for Inter to fall apart, so if Allegri does go to Arsenal...

They have the money , the stadium they are miles ahead of many in Serie A and will be for sometime...I don't think Allegri has changed much , hes got wiser but that was bound to happen as he got my exp from CL....he has world class players at his disposal something we were keen on selling to balance the books..and as that Jose guy says you can't make a good omelette with bad eggs...

They are prolly going to keep 4th spot open for Serie A teams to all be it enter the CL..

Posted by: Danny May 4 2017, 11:17 AM

QUOTE (Ry4n @ May 4 2017, 12:53 AM) *
They have the money , the stadium they are miles ahead of many in Serie A and will be for sometime...I don't think Allegri has changed much , hes got wiser but that was bound to happen as he got my exp from CL....he has world class players at his disposal something we were keen on selling to balance the books..and as that Jose guy says you can't make a good omelette with bad eggs...

They are prolly going to keep 4th spot open for Serie A teams to all be it enter the CL..


Juve have mostly inferior players to Monaco and Barca yet have dominated both teams. It's not just down to the players. There's a unity, a 'die for each other' mentality in there - they've grown from the Conte underachievers into Europe's dominant team.

I mean let's not forget, it's not a massively different squad to what Conte had, and he is an exceptional manager. But couldn't take them past the last 16 in Europe. Or was it the quarters.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone May 4 2017, 11:22 AM

Mostly inferior players to Monaco???? Please, do tell more about this. What's the score?

Posted by: Danny May 4 2017, 04:18 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ May 4 2017, 11:22 AM) *
Mostly inferior players to Monaco???? Please, do tell more about this. What's the score?


0-2.

I'd rather have Mbappe and Falcao than Dybala and Higuain for a start. Then there's Moutinho, Mendy, Glik, and Sidibe. Juve have only one player I'd say is stronger than what Monaco have - Buffon over Subasic.

As a collective Juve have a better defence but individually the players are not special. No one is going to tell me Chiellini is a great defender - the guy is brutal. What he IS is a great leader. Alongside workhorses. And that makes their backline incredibly tough to get past.

Posted by: X-Offender May 4 2017, 11:02 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ May 4 2017, 04:18 PM) *
0-2.

I'd rather have Mbappe and Falcao than Dybala and Higuain for a start. Then there's Moutinho, Mendy, Glik, and Sidibe. Juve have only one player I'd say is stronger than what Monaco have - Buffon over Subasic.

As a collective Juve have a better defence but individually the players are not special. No one is going to tell me Chiellini is a great defender - the guy is brutal. What he IS is a great leader. Alongside workhorses. And that makes their backline incredibly tough to get past.


blink.gif

Juve have a team full of top players. Buffon, Alves, Bonucci, Chiellini, Khedira, Marchisio, Pjanic, Cuadrado, Dybala, Higuain. Who the hell are Moutinho, Glik, Sidibe et al in comparison? They don't even come close. The only player that can compete in this context is Mbappe, and that's it.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow May 5 2017, 09:32 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ May 5 2017, 05:32 AM) *
blink.gif

Juve have a team full of top players. Buffon, Alves, Bonucci, Chiellini, Khedira, Marchisio, Pjanic, Cuadrado, Dybala, Higuain. Who the hell are Moutinho, Glik, Sidibe et al in comparison? They don't even come close. The only player that can compete in this context is Mbappe, and that's it.


Yeah actually. Mbappe vs Dybala and Higuain vs a fully fit Falcao are the only times when Monaco draw with Juve on talent. Rest of the time, Juve win.

In any case the individuality doesn't matter. Football in this decade has all been about collective efforts in defense and attack, and as much automation of plays as possible. It's almost becoming like American football. Ugh!

Soon football coaches will have a playbook and registas will call plays in advance.

Posted by: Danny May 5 2017, 10:18 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ May 4 2017, 11:02 PM) *
blink.gif

Juve have a team full of top players. Buffon, Alves, Bonucci, Chiellini, Khedira, Marchisio, Pjanic, Cuadrado, Dybala, Higuain. Who the hell are Moutinho, Glik, Sidibe et al in comparison? They don't even come close. The only player that can compete in this context is Mbappe, and that's it.


I give you Buffon, Dybala and Higuain (albeit not the latter two versus Monaco's offering), but you seem to be forgetting the players whom you're obvious to the existence of are about to beat PSG fair and square for the Ligue 1 title WHILE still being in UCL along with it.

I respect your opinion but your unfamiliarity with Monaco's players doesn't make Juve's better. It just means you need to educate yourself - this time last week you didn't even know who Mbappe was!

Posted by: Danny May 5 2017, 10:20 AM

QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ May 5 2017, 09:32 AM) *
Yeah actually. Mbappe vs Dybala and Higuain vs a fully fit Falcao are the only times when Monaco draw with Juve on talent. Rest of the time, Juve win.


For those who don't know Monaco's players, maybe...

QUOTE
In any case the individuality doesn't matter. Football in this decade has all been about collective efforts in defense and attack, and as much automation of plays as possible. It's almost becoming like American football. Ugh!


This is why Juve have been a huge success. It's not about individual quality as much any more, but about tactics and team effort. One thing I will say that they have over both Barca and Monaco is physical strength. They're big lads - only wee players I can think of at Juve are Dybala and maybe Pjanic. Rest are all mountains.

Posted by: X-Offender May 5 2017, 07:06 PM

Couldn't disagree more, Danny. Saying Monaco's players are on the same level as Juve's is a baffling thing to say, but then again Juve proved otherwise two nights ago so there's not much to discuss. smile.gif

Posted by: Danny May 5 2017, 07:30 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ May 5 2017, 07:06 PM) *
Couldn't disagree more, Danny. Saying Monaco's players are on the same level as Juve's is a baffling thing to say, but then again Juve proved otherwise two nights ago so there's not much to discuss. smile.gif


Now you know how I feel when you and Han talk absolute shite about Allegri wink.gif

Posted by: han2503 May 6 2017, 10:18 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ May 4 2017, 11:17 AM) *
Juve have mostly inferior players to Monaco and Barca yet have dominated both teams. It's not just down to the players. There's a unity, a 'die for each other' mentality in there - they've grown from the Conte underachievers into Europe's dominant team.

I mean let's not forget, it's not a massively different squad to what Conte had, and he is an exceptional manager. But couldn't take them past the last 16 in Europe. Or was it the quarters.

Really? You say this and then don't want to get into discussions about Allegri. I mean honestly Danny, you're being way too transparent here

Barca have been p!ss poor this season and they're no where near their best, and no where near the efficient machine they were when they wiped Juve's sorry @sses in the final a couple years ago.

Their trashing against PSG showed this and them miraculously getting through thanks to a couple of soft pens and a Neymar free-kick really says it all about how Barca have fallen this year.

We'll see what they do in the final, but you're kidding yourself if you're trying to paint Allegri to be some genius mastermind behind the underdog's success. Juve have one of the best teams in Europe, their defence is better than either Real's or Barca's probably better than Bayern's as well considering how difficult Carlo has founf it to consistently field the same 4 at the back this season. Their midfield is also still great despite losing Pogba and Pirlo, and they have the 90m guy in Higuain. If you think that's underdog status then I don't know what else to say

Monaco have always been the dark horse here. They have a splendidly talented young side, but their inexperience showed against a clever old side like Juve.

Allegri might have learned from some of his serious errors at Milan, but he's no coaching genius. He's working with the best team in the league (by a country mile) and one of the best teams in Europe, he is where he should be and anything less atm would be a failure

Posted by: han2503 May 6 2017, 10:26 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ May 5 2017, 10:20 AM) *
This is why Juve have been a huge success. It's not about individual quality as much any more, but about tactics and team effort. One thing I will say that they have over both Barca and Monaco is physical strength. They're big lads - only wee players I can think of at Juve are Dybala and maybe Pjanic. Rest are all mountains.

That's always been the case with Juve, it's what Conte built and Allegri has been smart enough to carry that on, unlike when he was with us and we were all about the individual talent.

Juve, from their first successful season under Conte (especially that one) have always been about the collective and not the individuals. That's why I've always said that Allegri lost that Scudetto to a group of players far more inferior to the ones he had but to an incredibly strong collective, which he was never able to build himself while with us, no matter all the talent he had at his disposal

Having said that, the Juve of today is still an incredibly strong collective thanks to all the work done by Conte, but they're also a strong collective of great individual talent, and that's why they're so great. The foundation built by Conte has stayed there, but they have also added players which imo or top class and some are the best in their respective positions. I think this is the area in which Allegri has had success at Juve, he incorporated the new players, who are all top class into the foundation that was already there very seamlessly

Like I ssaid last week, if Juve win this CL, I will give Allegri the credit he deserves, but that still does not erase what he did with us, which is nothing short of a massive failure, and when he was with us, he also showed us how ugly his teams could play if he doesn't have the resources

Posted by: Rossoneri7 May 6 2017, 07:45 PM

Coaches evolve with the exposure and experience. Allegri took Milan and learned Serie A and CL (He had access to training and game plan regiments of his predecessors at Milan). When he moved to Juve they had an excellent team and he morphed it into what it is today. I wouldn't discredit Allegri by stating he took where Conti left off, on the contrary I find his playing style different to that of Conti.

Ancelotti, the greatest tactician alive IMHO. He left Milan and won everything worthy of winning. But that all came with exposure and experience.

Posted by: han2503 May 6 2017, 10:15 PM

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ May 6 2017, 07:45 PM) *
Coaches evolve with the exposure and experience. Allegri took Milan and learned Serie A and CL (He had access to training and game plan regiments of his predecessors at Milan). When he moved to Juve they had an excellent team and he morphed it into what it is today. I wouldn't discredit Allegri by stating he took where Conti left off, on the contrary I find his playing style different to that of Conti.

Ancelotti, the greatest tactician alive IMHO. He left Milan and won everything worthy of winning. But that all came with exposure and experience.

Like I said, I think his best success has come by being able to integrate the big name players with the foundation built by Conte. So I agree that to an extent he has done well at Juve, but I still believe that is all thanks to the work Conte did with that team.

Answer me this, do you think that had Allegri gone to Juve instead of Milan back in 2010 instead of Conte that he would be as successful with them as he is now? For me, that's a big fat no.

Without Conte, Juve would have never gotten to where they are now, at least not anytime soon

As for playing style, of course it's different, Conte's Juve was beautiful to watch but ruthless at the same time, I don't think they have that edge now that they did back under Conte.

Posted by: kurtsimonw May 21 2017, 12:10 PM

I hoped this place would have changed, still some weird obsession with Allegri.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow May 21 2017, 01:52 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ May 21 2017, 06:40 PM) *
I hoped this place would have changed, still some weird obsession with Allegri.



Haha. Well it's the fag end of a season, that although not too bad hasn't really set us up with a renaissance has it? So this was bound to happen. All the pet peeves coming out.

Posted by: Danny May 21 2017, 10:46 PM

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ May 21 2017, 12:10 PM) *
I hoped this place would have changed, still some weird obsession with Allegri.


Don't even MENTION Zapata biggrin.gif

Posted by: han2503 May 23 2017, 07:10 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ May 21 2017, 10:46 PM) *
Don't even MENTION Zapata biggrin.gif

I prefer Zapata over Allegri...

Posted by: Danny May 23 2017, 03:18 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ May 23 2017, 07:10 AM) *
I prefer Zapata over Allegri...


Don't even MENTION Muntari biggrin.gif

Posted by: han2503 May 24 2017, 08:42 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ May 23 2017, 03:18 PM) *
Don't even MENTION Muntari biggrin.gif

puke.gif

But he was one of Allegri's faves, so that's a puke.gif combo

Posted by: Danny Jun 3 2017, 09:27 AM

So UCL final is tonight. It says how much for Juve's season that some bookies actually have them as the favourite.

I cannot see Real winning this. Their defence is flaky, and if on fire Kylian Mbappe couldn't score against Chiellini and co, I'd be impressed if Ronaldo can.

This could be the toughest club match Real's front men have ever faced - a total unit of a Juve side, a team miles ahead in the league and from most of Europe - add the Buffon thing and it just seems absolutely written that Juve will win.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 3 2017, 11:33 AM



I gotta say, that's gotta be the most unnatural 4-2-3-1 I've ever seen. You've got a 36 year old Barzagli playing as RB, a role he's never covered in his career. You've got Dani Alves, a RB, playing as attacking winger. You've got Mandzukic, a CF playing on the wing. And you've got Dybala, a striker playing as trequartista.

I mean, it was weird enough having the latter two but at least it worked. But now this Barzagli-Alves addition seems unnecessary, considering Alves has been great as RB and Cuadrado has been owning that right flank for most of his time there.

Hopefully Allegri hasn't shot himself in the foot here, cos I want Juventus to win.

Posted by: Danny Jun 3 2017, 02:02 PM

Thanks to the total injustice of how Bayern were robbed of the final by Real, I think I do too.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 3 2017, 03:03 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 3 2017, 11:33 AM) *


I gotta say, that's gotta be the most unnatural 4-2-3-1 I've ever seen. You've got a 36 year old Barzagli playing as RB, a role he's never covered in his career. You've got Dani Alves, a RB, playing as attacking winger. You've got Mandzukic, a CF playing on the wing. And you've got Dybala, a striker playing as trequartista.

I mean, it was weird enough having the latter two but at least it worked. But now this Barzagli-Alves addition seems unnecessary, considering Alves has been great as RB and Cuadrado has been owning that right flank for most of his time there.

Hopefully Allegri hasn't shot himself in the foot here, cos I want Juventus to win.

puke.gif How could you guys want Juve to win? Their failures in Europe give me life!

That being said, Allegri is known for hammering in round pegs into square holes so this is nothing new

Though, just to be on his side for once and to give him the benefit of the doubt, I think he's using these players so he can switch to 3-men at the back during the game

So it will be more

Barzagli--Bonucci--Chiellini
Alves--Khedira--Pjanic--Sandro
Dybala--Higuain--Mandzukic


With Dybala having more of a free role

Posted by: Danny Jun 3 2017, 03:06 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 3 2017, 03:03 PM) *
puke.gif How could you guys want Juve to win? Their failures in Europe give me life!


Beats me, truly, I have no idea why I want them to win. My reason in the last post was only one, but from a purely football point of view while I hate both Ryan Giggs and Steven Gerrard it's a crime that Giggs never played in a major championship and Gerrard never won the league.

So, despite my hatred for the b*stards, I wouldn't object to Buffon getting a winners medal in the one thing he doesn't have.

They're also plain the best team around right now, that's beyond debate - and I guess on some level I can swallow pride and admit that.

And yeah, I like Allegri but I ain't going there! tongue.gif

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 3 2017, 03:15 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 3 2017, 03:03 PM) *
puke.gif How could you guys want Juve to win? Their failures in Europe give me life!


I fucking hate Madrid, that's why.

Posted by: Danny Jun 3 2017, 03:45 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 3 2017, 03:15 PM) *
I fucking hate Madrid, that's why.


So you hate Juve but fucking hate Madrid biggrin.gif

Posted by: han2503 Jun 3 2017, 04:10 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 3 2017, 03:45 PM) *
So you hate Juve but fucking hate Madrid biggrin.gif

There are levels apparently biggrin.gif

Look don't get me wrong, I don't like the fact that Real would be the team to finally retain the trophy after us, but I fucking hate Juve more so there!

@ Danny, I get your point about Buffon but still can't stand the sight of Juve winning this cup.

As for Allegri, I'll be one of the first here to say well done if he does win. I think he's done well at Juve, never tried to deny that, he's built on what Conte started. Still I can't deny the fact that he was abysmal with us either.

Posted by: amancik Jun 3 2017, 09:38 PM

Juventus 1 - 4 Real Madrid. Dissappointed with Juve's performance in the second-half. What do you guys think?

Posted by: Danny Jun 3 2017, 09:42 PM

QUOTE (amancik @ Jun 3 2017, 09:38 PM) *
Juventus 1 - 4 Real Madrid. Dissappointed with Juve's performance in the second-half. What do you guys think?


When Ronaldo scored the opener I put my money where my mouth was and put a tenner on. Then Mandzukic scored and I was 10000% convinced Juve would indeed win.

Second half was truly awful from them though and they basically choked but bear in mind both Real's first two goals were deflected. Second one knocked the stuffing out Juve.

Posted by: Danny Jun 3 2017, 09:42 PM

QUOTE (amancik @ Jun 3 2017, 09:38 PM) *
Juventus 1 - 4 Real Madrid. Dissappointed with Juve's performance in the second-half. What do you guys think?


When Ronaldo scored the opener I put my money where my mouth was and put a tenner on. Then Mandzukic scored and I was 10000% convinced Juve would indeed win.

Second half was truly awful from them though and they basically choked but bear in mind both Real's first two goals were deflected. Second one knocked the stuffing out Juve.

Posted by: Danny Jun 3 2017, 09:43 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 3 2017, 04:10 PM) *
There are levels apparently biggrin.gif

Look don't get me wrong, I don't like the fact that Real would be the team to finally retain the trophy after us, but I fucking hate Juve more so there!

@ Danny, I get your point about Buffon but still can't stand the sight of Juve winning this cup.

As for Allegri, I'll be one of the first here to say well done if he does win. I think he's done well at Juve, never tried to deny that, he's built on what Conte started. Still I can't deny the fact that he was abysmal with us either.


Actually they're the only team to ever retain it in the UCL era. We did it in the European Cup era. While it's the same trophy it really was a completely different tournament in those days.

Posted by: amancik Jun 3 2017, 09:47 PM

Juve just collapsed after Real Madrid's second goal. Pjanic for me was the flop. Wayward passing and never looked to control the midfield.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 3 2017, 10:41 PM

I didn't watch tbh, just kept check of the score, I'm sorry for Buffon, but generally speaking I was sort of expecting this. Juve are perennial under-achievers in Europe and they never fail to disappoint.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 3 2017, 10:56 PM

As expected, Allegri got the formation wrong. But to be fair, Pjanic, Dybala and Higuain never showed up for the entire game.

Posted by: Danny Jun 3 2017, 10:58 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 3 2017, 10:56 PM) *
As expected, Allegri got the formation wrong. But to be fair, Pjanic, Dybala and Higuain never showed up for the entire game.


Thought Dybala was outstanding myself.

Posted by: Danny Jun 3 2017, 10:59 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 3 2017, 10:41 PM) *
I didn't watch tbh, just kept check of the score, I'm sorry for Buffon, but generally speaking I was sort of expecting this. Juve are perennial under-achievers in Europe and they never fail to disappoint.


Many would argue any team other than Bayern, Real, Barca or Atleti getting to the UCL final is, in itself an overachievement.

Posted by: Ry4n Jun 4 2017, 12:07 AM

Juventus choked once again...they have lost the most CL finals ever and madrid have now won the most...

all in all alot of negatives the plus is we will have a 4th spot in CL again right.?

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 4 2017, 10:50 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 3 2017, 10:58 PM) *
Thought Dybala was outstanding myself.


You can't be serious. Outstanding in what? He was invisible. Did absolutely nothing for a player of his calibre.

Posted by: Danny Jun 4 2017, 11:24 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 4 2017, 10:50 AM) *
You can't be serious. Outstanding in what? He was invisible. Did absolutely nothing for a player of his calibre.


I am serious. He was probably their best player. Constantly on the ball and weaving through the Real outer defence. He faded badly in the second half mind you. As did they all.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 4 2017, 02:46 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 3 2017, 10:59 PM) *
Many would argue any team other than Bayern, Real, Barca or Atleti getting to the UCL final is, in itself an overachievement.

Disagree, I think Juve's squad is on the same level as at the very least Atletico and Barca (who have been a disaster defensively all season). Bayern and Real might be a level above but I disagree that they over-achieved this season. They have a great squad, including the best defensive line in the competition imo

QUOTE (Ry4n @ Jun 4 2017, 12:07 AM) *
Juventus choked once again...they have lost the most CL finals ever and madrid have now won the most...

all in all alot of negatives the plus is we will have a 4th spot in CL again right.?

Yes

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 4 2017, 07:28 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 4 2017, 11:24 AM) *
I am serious. He was probably their best player. Constantly on the ball and weaving through the Real outer defence. He faded badly in the second half mind you. As did they all.


Constantly on the ball doing nothing. For someone who's arguably Juve's best player, Dybala's performance was completely lackluster, so much so in fact that he was subbed.

Him, Pjanic and Higuain, the three that were supposed to make the difference, were invisible. Compare that to Modric, Isco and Ronaldo's performances, and you get the picture.

Juve's best performer was by far and large Mandzukic.

Posted by: Danny Jun 4 2017, 08:14 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 4 2017, 07:28 PM) *
Constantly on the ball doing nothing. For someone who's arguably Juve's best player, Dybala's performance was completely lackluster, so much so in fact that he was subbed.

Him, Pjanic and Higuain, the three that were supposed to make the difference, were invisible. Compare that to Modric, Isco and Ronaldo's performances, and you get the picture.


Juve were by far the better side in the first half. Had far more of the ball and did more with it. Not sure how you rated any of those three as better than Dybala but then it's all about opinions and we've more pressing issues to deal with than who was better last night.

QUOTE
Juve's best performer was by far and large Mandzukic.


Let's sign him then tongue.gif

Posted by: han2503 Jun 4 2017, 08:38 PM

From the highlights it looked like Juve had the better chances in the 1st half and then Real completely turned the tables on them in the 2nd

So that's probably the reason for the differing perspectives


Posted by: X-Offender Jun 4 2017, 09:37 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 4 2017, 08:14 PM) *
Juve were by far the better side in the first half. Had far more of the ball and did more with it. Not sure how you rated any of those three as better than Dybala but then it's all about opinions and we've more pressing issues to deal with than who was better last night.


Far better side? I'd say in the first half they were on equal terms. Obviously in the second half Madrid showed what they're really made of and Juve just crumbled altogether. Ronaldo and Modric were the best players of the game, Isco was great as well. Can't see how you can even compare Dybala's performance to theirs.

Posted by: Danny Jun 5 2017, 10:34 AM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 4 2017, 08:38 PM) *
From the highlights it looked like Juve had the better chances in the 1st half and then Real completely turned the tables on them in the 2nd

So that's probably the reason for the differing perspectives


Real became UCL Real in the second half while Juve had a meltdown. Equally conceding two deflected goals knocked them out.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jun 5 2017, 11:06 AM

7 CL titles - Milan
7 CL final defeats - Gobbi

All I'm gonna say. That's the way Max wink.gif

Posted by: Ry4n Jun 5 2017, 02:38 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jun 5 2017, 03:06 PM) *
7 CL titles - Milan
7 CL final defeats - Gobbi

All I'm gonna say. That's the way Max wink.gif

I thought juve had this in the bag due to having a exp squad but damn did they screw that 2nd half up... Zidane is quite the manager..

Posted by: Danny Jun 5 2017, 03:33 PM

QUOTE (Ry4n @ Jun 5 2017, 02:38 PM) *
I thought juve had this in the bag due to having a exp squad but damn did they screw that 2nd half up... Zidane is quite the manager..


And yet remains unpopular with supporters. He's had an astonishing debut season in management, arguably the greatest ever for a rookie, and yet he still isn't the popular choice with fans.

Posted by: amancik Jun 5 2017, 04:24 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jun 5 2017, 07:06 PM) *
7 CL titles - Milan
7 CL final defeats - Gobbi

All I'm gonna say. That's the way Max wink.gif


+1

Posted by: han2503 Jun 8 2017, 01:20 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 5 2017, 03:33 PM) *
And yet remains unpopular with supporters. He's had an astonishing debut season in management, arguably the greatest ever for a rookie, and yet he still isn't the popular choice with fans.

Honestly, what more could the Madrid fans want FFS? Best team in the world, play great football and they get the results as well.

They must be getting board of winning, that's why they try to find little things to nit-pick and complain about

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Aug 4 2017, 12:38 AM

PSG have officially signed Neymar.

I disapprove of the digures being circulated as you can build a whole team with such numbers; take Milan as a perfect example. Nevertheless its done and dusted; Neymar is a PSG player.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Aug 4 2017, 10:20 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 5 2017, 10:03 PM) *
And yet remains unpopular with supporters. He's had an astonishing debut season in management, arguably the greatest ever for a rookie, and yet he still isn't the popular choice with fans.


They keep thinking he's a fluke. I guess a team like Madrid where players are such great individuals - you don't really need a massive tactical supercomputer of a coach to have them winning, you need a guy who's got the dressing room.

But hey this is Madrid. They booed their own player when he won a Ballon d'Or. Their own player!!! WTF. Great club, sh!t fans.

Posted by: Danny Aug 4 2017, 12:38 PM

QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Aug 4 2017, 10:20 AM) *
They keep thinking he's a fluke. I guess a team like Madrid where players are such great individuals - you don't really need a massive tactical supercomputer of a coach to have them winning, you need a guy who's got the dressing room.

But hey this is Madrid. They booed their own player when he won a Ballon d'Or. Their own player!!! WTF. Great club, sh!t fans.


Both of the Spanish duo suffer dreadful fans.

Posted by: Danny Aug 4 2017, 12:39 PM

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Aug 4 2017, 12:38 AM) *
PSG have officially signed Neymar.

I disapprove of the digures being circulated as you can build a whole team with such numbers; take Milan as a perfect example. Nevertheless its done and dusted; Neymar is a PSG player.


I don't disapprove at all. I disapprove of a guy like Kyle Walker costing 50M - THAT is what dilutes the likes of Neymar being worth 200M.

Don't get me wrong, 200M is crazy, but it's the market rate for such a player. Many would actually say it's cheap!

Posted by: han2503 Aug 4 2017, 01:56 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Aug 4 2017, 12:39 PM) *
I don't disapprove at all. I disapprove of a guy like Kyle Walker costing 50M - THAT is what dilutes the likes of Neymar being worth 200M.

Don't get me wrong, 200M is crazy, but it's the market rate for such a player. Many would actually say it's cheap!

The Neymar sum is also excessive. He's not worth that, not in a million years. I would argue that neither Ronaldo or Messie are worth that either.

As for the Zidane discussion above. Bring him to Milan and we'll see what he can do. He walked into a situation where he already had a top class side that had been playing together for a while already.

Posted by: Danny Aug 4 2017, 03:14 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Aug 4 2017, 01:56 PM) *
The Neymar sum is also excessive. He's not worth that, not in a million years. I would argue that neither Ronaldo or Messie are worth that either.


What is worth? What a release clause is? What the buying club is willing to pay? What the player will earn the club in marketing profit?

Football numbers went silly, but they went silly a long long time ago. Zidane wasn't worth 45M, Kaka wasn't worth 59M, Lentini wasn't worth 13M.

Every new generation it's new 'crazy' prices.

We paid roughly for Silva what Real paid for Zidane.

I don't know if that's crazier or less crazy than Neymar at 200M.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Aug 5 2017, 03:10 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Aug 4 2017, 08:26 PM) *
The Neymar sum is also excessive. He's not worth that, not in a million years. I would argue that neither Ronaldo or Messie are worth that either.

As for the Zidane discussion above. Bring him to Milan and we'll see what he can do. He walked into a situation where he already had a top class side that had been playing together for a while already.



Nah, but that's my point. You could argue that if Kyle Walker is worth 50 MM then Neymar is indeed worth 200 MM right?

The point is the footballing economy has expanded at the high end of the market and these are going to be the prices we'll see. Kessie at 28 MM is looking like an absolute fricking steal.

Zidane - I already mentioned what I thought. He doesn't have to be a tactical mastermind. What he's done is taken those 20-24 players and rotated them really well while keeping morale up. I guess he's learnt from Carlo, Mourinho and Benitez. Real's team are so damn good, you don't need too much tactical tinkering to make it work. Keep the players fresh and happy and they'll do it for you. Of course that's incredibly hard in a team of egos like that, so a lot of credit to Zidane for that.

I mean he had a peak fitness CR7 at the fag end of the season. That's amazing squad planning.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Aug 6 2017, 09:16 PM

These figures are crazy! I can not understand how you boys find closure in stating its the going rate of today.

For starters he is one player, God forbid he breaks a leg?

Secondly; he hasn't won a WC, he hasn't dazzled as had Ronaldo 'ilfenomeno' or Ronaldinho. Regadless, even if he had, 200M+ is the type of money you would build a factory for. A factory that actually benefits the economy, the producer, buyer and seller.

The world has definitely gone bonkers. PSG and the Qatar money is sickening to the point that football is not fun anymore! FFS Milan was sold for 700M. Neymars price tag alone represents 30% of that value! And both transactions happened in 2017.


There is no way this is justifiable. Even if they sold 1billion Neymar shirts, its not justifiable. Insert puke smiley.

EDIT: https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-08-04/neymar-and-why-government-money-is-ruining-soccer

Posted by: Danny Aug 6 2017, 10:15 PM

At our peak we broke the world record transfer in 2009. At another peak we did it in 91 with Lentini.

In fact, we're one to talk about crazy figures.

I'm not justifying the numbers, I'm saying we're as guilty as anyone, and any fan reacting with disgust is simply disappointed it's not their club doing it.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Aug 6 2017, 10:29 PM

The day Milan pay quarter of a billion for one player is the day i stop watching Milan.

Breaking the record is one thing, Madrid did it with CR and United did it with Pogba. But 200M is the type of money you buy both rangers and celtic.

There is logic danny, then there is crazy. This one is crazy. Makes no sense at all.

Further please justify 600K per week after taxes for wages? Its bonkers i tell you.

Posted by: Danny Aug 6 2017, 11:24 PM

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Aug 6 2017, 10:29 PM) *
The day Milan pay quarter of a billion for one player is the day i stop watching Milan.

Breaking the record is one thing, Madrid did it with CR and United did it with Pogba. But 200M is the type of money you buy both rangers and celtic.

There is logic danny, then there is crazy. This one is crazy. Makes no sense at all.

Further please justify 600K per week after taxes for wages? Its bonkers i tell you.


In 1979 Nottingham Forest paid £1M for Trevor Francies.

In 1961 footballers got £20 a week. In 2011 the average was 35K.

You, right now, are someone from 1961 astonished that 50 years has seen inflation of simply impossible levels.

You're someone in 1978 who was disgusted that there was talk of a player going for a MILLION.

A MILLION.

Back in 2009 the idea of £50M being a casual sum was just appalling. The idea of paying Porto 40M for a youth player fairly untested was just absolutely appalling.

There is no day you will stop supporting Milan, because if your principles were consistent you would have done it a long time ago.

You're here for the long haul. It's sad now but one day 200M will be quite normal for a player.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Aug 7 2017, 02:11 AM

In the world of finance they call it inflation. We have not reached that level yet.

What happened was Barca put a stupid clause that noone in his right mind would activate. And PSG did because of crazy money.

If you still believe this is normal its fine, do not need to convince, its my understanding vs yours.

Posted by: Danny Aug 7 2017, 02:32 AM

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Aug 7 2017, 02:11 AM) *
In the world of finance they call it inflation. We have not reached that level yet.


It's as if you basically ignored everything I just said. If you don't think £20 in 1960 to £35k a week in 2011 is that level there's not much i can do.

QUOTE
What happened was Barca put a stupid clause that noone in his right mind would activate. And PSG did because of crazy money.


Ok now you're basically saying clauses are nonsense. No one thinks Belotti is worth 100M but that's the 'stupid clause' you quote.

Those clauses are there to protect the club from losing the player for less than he's worth. Most teams put them in.

We activated Silva's, as you know. He is no more worth 40M than Neymar is worth 200M. But it is what it is.

QUOTE
If you still believe this is normal its fine, do not need to convince, its my understanding vs yours.


Didn't say it's fine, said it's the way it is. I'm not trying to convince you of anything beyond the harsh reality that this is the way things are.

And your morals on it are selective at best. If you really believed your steadfast view on this you'd have given football up a decade or more ago. Or the day we activated Silva's release clause.

I'm not righteously justifying it, I'm explaining it. And this is my last comment on this matter smile.gif

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 22 2017, 10:12 PM

Nice 0-2 Napoli

The last time Italy had three teams in the group stages was in 2013-14.

Posted by: Danny Aug 22 2017, 10:50 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Aug 22 2017, 10:12 PM) *
Nice 0-2 Napoli

The last time Italy had three teams in the group stages was in 2013-14.


Watched some of this - Napoli benefited from a dreadful delay in getting Balotelli on. I think Nice were down to 10 men. That made it 0-1.

Posted by: Danny Aug 22 2017, 10:51 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Aug 22 2017, 10:12 PM) *
The last time Italy had three teams in the group stages was in 2013-14.


Depending how this season goes they could well have four next season.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 22 2017, 10:54 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Aug 22 2017, 10:51 PM) *
Depending how this season goes they could well have four next season.


They will have four regardless. UEFA passed new rules that Italy, England, Spain and Germany will each have four teams going straight into the group stages starting from next season. In other words, if we finish 4th this season we won't have to go through any play-offs.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 22 2017, 10:55 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Aug 22 2017, 10:50 PM) *
Watched some of this - Napoli benefited from a dreadful delay in getting Balotelli on. I think Nice were down to 10 men. That made it 0-1.


Hmm, Balotelli played from the start. And there were no cards whatsoever in the game.

Posted by: William405 Aug 22 2017, 11:00 PM

What do you guys think of that rule by the way? It's great because I believe these are the 4 best leagues out there. But, it's kind of hypocritical in a way because no other leagues can advance and gain more places no matter what they do.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 22 2017, 11:22 PM

QUOTE (William405 @ Aug 22 2017, 11:00 PM) *
What do you guys think of that rule by the way? It's great because I believe these are the 4 best leagues out there. But, it's kind of hypocritical in a way because no other leagues can advance and gain more places no matter what they do.


Aside from the French league to an extent, no other league can compete with those four. So it's quite legit for me.

Posted by: Danny Aug 23 2017, 01:01 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Aug 22 2017, 10:55 PM) *
Hmm, Balotelli played from the start. And there were no cards whatsoever in the game.


No, I mean he went off with injury and there was a delay getting him back on. Goal was conceded during this time.

Posted by: Danny Aug 23 2017, 01:02 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Aug 22 2017, 11:22 PM) *
Aside from the French league to an extent, no other league can compete with those four. So it's quite legit for me.


*frames* biggrin.gif

Posted by: Danny Aug 23 2017, 01:02 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Aug 22 2017, 10:54 PM) *
They will have four regardless. UEFA passed new rules that Italy, England, Spain and Germany will each have four teams going straight into the group stages starting from next season. In other words, if we finish 4th this season we won't have to go through any play-offs.


I was actually thinking from the POV of winning UEL and getting the auto slot from that but yes, that too is valid.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 23 2017, 07:58 AM

Oh well, the Champions League needed some changes. The less teams like Maribor, Astana, Rijeka, etc. play on this level the better the competition will look. I think automatic qualification will enormously help the likes of Napoli, Monaco, Roma, Leverkusen, etc. because it will provide stability and security to make bolder steps forward.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Aug 23 2017, 09:28 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Aug 23 2017, 05:25 AM) *
Hmm, Balotelli played from the start. And there were no cards whatsoever in the game.


Nah, there was some fuss about him needing to tape up jewelry or something.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 23 2017, 10:04 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Aug 23 2017, 01:02 AM) *
*frames* biggrin.gif


To an extent I said. tongue.gif

Posted by: han2503 Aug 23 2017, 11:06 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Aug 22 2017, 10:50 PM) *
Watched some of this - Napoli benefited from a dreadful delay in getting Balotelli on. I think Nice were down to 10 men. That made it 0-1.

You really think Balo would have helped in anyway considering he walked it for 90 minutes? One of the laziest displays I've seen from him in a while

QUOTE (Danny @ Aug 22 2017, 10:51 PM) *
Depending how this season goes they could well have four next season.

No need, it's already in the bag wink.gif

QUOTE (William405 @ Aug 22 2017, 11:00 PM) *
What do you guys think of that rule by the way? It's great because I believe these are the 4 best leagues out there. But, it's kind of hypocritical in a way because no other leagues can advance and gain more places no matter what they do.

Who cares? Germany took away one of our spots by doing well in the UEFA Cup/EL while we had teams winning the thing. The fact that the UEFA Cup/EL give the same coefficients for wins/draws as the CL was already a f@cked up system.

At least now the quality of the tournament will be elevated at Fillipo said. It made no sense that you had teams like Milan and Inter sitting out while obscure teams from obscure leagues got into the group stages. This ensures more TV money for UEFA anyway


QUOTE (Danny @ Aug 23 2017, 01:02 AM) *
*frames* biggrin.gif

Well with PSG in there they have to be considered, but really, is the league in general that much better than the Portugese one if you take PSG out of it?

Look at Nice vs Napoli. Shows the gulf in class between what Italy has to offer and what France does very accurately imo

QUOTE (Danny @ Aug 23 2017, 01:02 AM) *
I was actually thinking from the POV of winning UEL and getting the auto slot from that but yes, that too is valid.

Hmmm, interesting point there. I think what would happen would be the same as what happened in England with Man U. Italy would get 5 spots if we were to win the EL and miss out on top 4 that is

Posted by: Danny Aug 23 2017, 12:17 PM

I was in the process of replying then realised my walrus needed cleaning.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 24 2017, 05:04 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Aug 23 2017, 12:17 PM) *
I was in the process of replying then realised my walrus needed cleaning.

Is it clean now? biggrin.gif

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Aug 24 2017, 06:02 PM

Group A

Benfica, Manchester United, Basel, CSKA Moscow

Group B

Bayern Munich, Paris Saint-Germain, Anderlecht, Celtic

Group C

Chelsea, Atletico Madrid, Roma, Qarabag

Group D

Juventus, Barcelona, Olympiakos, Sporting CP

Group E

Spartak Moscow, Sevilla, Liverpool, Maribor

Group F

Shakhtar Donetsk, Manchester City, Napoli, Feyenoord

Group G

Monaco, Porto, Besiktas, RB Leipzig

Group H

Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Tottenham Hotspur, APOEL

Posted by: han2503 Aug 24 2017, 06:21 PM

QUOTE (CrazyMilanFan @ Aug 24 2017, 06:02 PM) *
Group A

Benfica, Manchester United, Basel, CSKA Moscow

Group B

Bayern Munich, Paris Saint-Germain, Anderlecht, Celtic

Group C

Chelsea, Atletico Madrid, Roma, Qarabag

Group D

Juventus, Barcelona, Olympiakos, Sporting CP

Group E

Spartak Moscow, Sevilla, Liverpool, Maribor

Group F

Shakhtar Donetsk, Manchester City, Napoli, Feyenoord

Group G

Monaco, Porto, Besiktas, RB Leipzig

Group H

Real Madrid, Borussia Dortmund, Tottenham Hotspur, APOEL

Roma...


United always with the easy draw.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 24 2017, 07:33 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Aug 24 2017, 06:21 PM) *
United always with the easy draw.


Came here to say the same thing.

Posted by: Ry4n Aug 24 2017, 08:27 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Aug 24 2017, 10:21 PM) *
Roma...


United always with the easy draw.

laugh.gif

Posted by: han2503 Aug 25 2017, 03:40 PM

When was the last time they had an even mildly difficult group?

Posted by: Danny Aug 26 2017, 01:41 AM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Aug 25 2017, 03:40 PM) *
When was the last time they had an even mildly difficult group?


I thought the same but then I saw our group today...

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 26 2017, 08:21 AM

Well we also had some uncomfortable groups in the past.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 26 2017, 11:33 AM

Yeah. We used to pick Madrid and Barcelona on a constant basis.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 26 2017, 01:37 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Aug 26 2017, 01:41 AM) *
I thought the same but then I saw our group today...

But we're in the EL. The likeliness of us drawing a very difficult group is almost non-existent since the majority of the teams in the other pots are bad.

Maybe Everton and Nice could have been a bit challenging out of all the teams we could have faced

Posted by: Danny Aug 26 2017, 09:09 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Aug 26 2017, 01:37 PM) *
But we're in the EL. The likeliness of us drawing a very difficult group is almost non-existent since the majority of the teams in the other pots are bad.

Maybe Everton and Nice could have been a bit challenging out of all the teams we could have faced


I wanted Everton/Nice/Marseille then Prague/Kolm/Hoffenheim then AEK or Vitesse. I got one.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 26 2017, 09:30 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Aug 26 2017, 09:09 PM) *
I wanted Everton/Nice/Marseille then Prague/Kolm/Hoffenheim then AEK or Vitesse. I got one.

But isn't it good to avoid the decent teams at this point?

I'd rather we not expand too much energy on the EL group stages so we can be able to really focus on the league. Inter and Roma look good so far, if we have drop offs we'll be out of the race for 4th

Posted by: han2503 Aug 26 2017, 09:33 PM

Damn... Inter...

Smash and grab in the least few minutes. They really don't deserve to win this, Roma were so much better throughout the game

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 26 2017, 09:51 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Aug 26 2017, 11:33 PM) *
Damn... Inter...

Smash and grab in the least few minutes. They really don't deserve to win this, Roma were so much better throughout the game

Wrong thread?

Posted by: Danny Aug 27 2017, 02:42 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Aug 26 2017, 09:30 PM) *
But isn't it good to avoid the decent teams at this point?


We waited four years for this. I wanted to make the most of it.

QUOTE
I'd rather we not expand too much energy on the EL group stages so we can be able to really focus on the league. Inter and Roma look good so far, if we have drop offs we'll be out of the race for 4th


I'd like to see us be a European heavyweight again - and I'd like to see wins against decent teams rather than Zanzibar Sheriff Deutsch DLC.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 27 2017, 03:07 PM

It will happen step by step. Winning against AEK, Rijeka and Austria is as valuable at this moment as playing against United or Chelsea.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 27 2017, 03:10 PM

Yeah, the big fixtures will come later on. You can't pretend to have a stellar group in the Europa League.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 27 2017, 04:42 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Aug 26 2017, 09:51 PM) *
Wrong thread?

Yeah... sad.gif

QUOTE (Danny @ Aug 27 2017, 02:42 PM) *
We waited four years for this. I wanted to make the most of it.



I'd like to see us be a European heavyweight again - and I'd like to see wins against decent teams rather than Zanzibar Sheriff Deutsch DLC.

You can't really expect us to jump from the mediocrity of last season and into the elites.

EL is a good step for us to get our toes wet in Europe again. Not to mention that I don't think we're ready to be going all out in Europe and Serie A all at once (in terms of having difficult fixtures to contend with every 3 days) This is a good intro back into Europe, and for the KOs when we're hopefully kicking into gear in terms of form

Posted by: Danny Aug 30 2017, 08:56 PM

People seem to have slightly misinterpreted me. I said wins against 'decent teams' - Marseille, Nice, Everton and Koln would have qualified. I did say that.

I'm not quite asking for Real Madrid yet!

Posted by: Ry4n Sep 1 2017, 04:50 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Aug 31 2017, 12:56 AM) *
People seem to have slightly misinterpreted me. I said wins against 'decent teams' - Marseille, Nice, Everton and Koln would have qualified. I did say that.

I'm not quite asking for Real Madrid yet!

They are baying for blood! laugh.gif fall in line or be ostracized.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 2 2017, 08:08 AM

QUOTE (Danny @ Aug 30 2017, 08:56 PM) *
People seem to have slightly misinterpreted me. I said wins against 'decent teams' - Marseille, Nice, Everton and Koln would have qualified. I did say that.

I'm not quite asking for Real Madrid yet!

No I got what you were saying. You wanted more interesting games. Sure, it would be more fun to watch but it's still better this way. We need to be almost perfect in the league, and having an easy EL schedule will help in this regard. So that's why I'd much rather face the difficult teams later on

This is a completely new team, they'll need time to realty find their feet, and I'd rather not have the team going all out in 2 competitions while they're still in the gelling process

QUOTE (Ry4n @ Sep 1 2017, 04:50 PM) *
They are baying for blood! laugh.gif fall in line or be ostracized.

Dude, what's your problem?

Posted by: Ry4n Sep 2 2017, 03:14 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 2 2017, 12:08 PM) *
Dude, what's your problem?


no problem if you have a problem with my post delete it.

It's just what i see go on here from time to time and its sad. anyway enough back on topic.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 2 2017, 04:07 PM

QUOTE (Ry4n @ Sep 2 2017, 03:14 PM) *
no problem if you have a problem with my post delete it.

It's just what i see go on here from time to time and its sad. anyway enough back on topic.

Why would I delete your post?

I'm just asking because you've come on here with a bitchy attitude from day one.

What do you expect for people to agree all the time? Why is it sad that there is a healthy discussion going on? You and Danny are too sensitive about this. As soon as people don't agree you feel the need to become defensive and declare the topic done. Soon enough no one will be able to say anything at all on here. That's what's sad imo

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Sep 2 2017, 05:14 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 2 2017, 06:07 PM) *
What do you expect for people to agree all the time? Why is it sad that there is a healthy discussion going on? You and Danny are too sensitive about this. As soon as people don't agree you feel the need to become defensive and declare the topic done. Soon enough no one will be able to say anything at all on here. That's what's sad imo


+1

Posted by: Ry4n Sep 2 2017, 05:40 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 2 2017, 08:07 PM) *
Why would I delete your post?

I'm just asking because you've come on here with a bitchy attitude from day one.

What do you expect for people to agree all the time? Why is it sad that there is a healthy discussion going on? You and Danny are too sensitive about this. As soon as people don't agree you feel the need to become defensive and declare the topic done. Soon enough no one will be able to say anything at all on here. That's what's sad imo

Really. Well that's your opinion. Thanks for it.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 2 2017, 09:37 PM

QUOTE (Ry4n @ Sep 2 2017, 05:40 PM) *
Really. Well that's your opinion. Thanks for it.

See, this is what I mean. Passive aggressive for no reason when I'm trying to talk to you in a civilised manner.

Posted by: Ry4n Sep 3 2017, 12:45 AM

.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 3 2017, 09:42 AM

QUOTE (Ry4n @ Sep 3 2017, 12:45 AM) *
.

Continuing to prove my point. But whatever rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Ry4n Sep 3 2017, 12:53 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 3 2017, 01:42 PM) *
Continuing to prove my point. But whatever rolleyes.gif

Just don't see the need to carry this charade on wink.gif

Posted by: William405 Sep 3 2017, 03:06 PM

Come on, no reason for this attitude. :/

You almost make me feel like there is a 1984 big brother thing going on here...

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 4 2017, 10:20 AM

Montella plays a 4-3-3 that morphs into a 4-2-4 in attack. The front left winger, moves centrally, while the mezzala on the left advances to become the left winger.

Discuss b!tches.

Posted by: Fishdoll Sep 12 2017, 09:39 PM

Juv3ntus.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 13 2017, 09:08 AM

Apart from that, which isn't really fun since I really dislike Barcelona, a complete CL borefest.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 13 2017, 05:49 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Sep 13 2017, 09:08 AM) *
Apart from that, which isn't really fun since I really dislike Barcelona, a complete CL borefest.

Agreed, we're now seeing the result of what this financial gap has created. All the games were walkovers. The fun has really been sucked out of this game

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 13 2017, 06:32 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 13 2017, 05:49 PM) *
Agreed, we're now seeing the result of what this financial gap has created. All the games were walkovers. The fun has really been sucked out of this game


The financial gap has got nothing to do with last night's results. United, Bayern, PSG and Chelsea had a breeze because they were facing crappy opponents. Only Barca had a great game, but let's not forget Juve handed their asses to them only a few months ago.

The CL has been like this for many years. It's nothing new.

Posted by: Danny Sep 14 2017, 01:15 AM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 13 2017, 05:49 PM) *
Agreed, we're now seeing the result of what this financial gap has created. All the games were walkovers. The fun has really been sucked out of this game


Liverpool held by Sevilla?

Porto losing at home to Besiktas?

Leipzig getting a point from Monaco?

This financial gap's 'relevance' is a fiction imo. Best team wins on the night. End of the day, plough 500M into a team and you still can't prevent a penalty from Kessie or an OG from whoever.

There's like PSG, Real, City perhaps and who else? Who else has boatloads of cash and has propelled themselves into an unfair European elite?

PS Feyenoord and the Dutch league is horrendous - any half decent UCL team could go there and get 3 points.

PPS Napoli are by no means poor and are on the verge of being a part of this 'gap' - yet got owned by Ukrainians?

There really wasn't a single artificial result over these two match days which presented an unfair gap. If Real play Apoel, they REALLY should tonk them. Not about money.

Posted by: amancik Sep 17 2017, 04:05 PM

Ousmane Dembele is ruled out for up to four months. Poor Barcelona.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 17 2017, 04:07 PM

QUOTE (amancik @ Sep 17 2017, 04:05 PM) *
Ousmane Dembele is ruled out for up to four months. Poor Barcelona.


That is unfortunate.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 17 2017, 04:40 PM

QUOTE (amancik @ Sep 17 2017, 04:05 PM) *
Ousmane Dembele is ruled out for up to four months. Poor Barcelona.

They can't catch a break, poor them

Posted by: Danny Sep 17 2017, 09:51 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 17 2017, 04:07 PM) *
That is unfortunate.


As unfortunate as Pro Evo 2018?

Posted by: Fishdoll Sep 28 2017, 10:05 AM

For those who care: Italy has surpassed Germany in the UEFA coefficient rankings.

Association club coefficients


Country Clubs Pts
1
Spain 7/7 92.712

2
England 7/7 66.034

3
Italy 6/6 64.082

4
Germany 6/7 63.998

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 28 2017, 01:30 PM

Huh, I thought Germany was above England.

Posted by: Fishdoll Sep 28 2017, 02:50 PM

They were until this year -- the rolling average changed and the year where Bayern and Dortmund played in the CL final has rolled off.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 30 2017, 09:59 PM

QUOTE (Fishdoll @ Sep 28 2017, 10:05 AM) *
For those who care: Italy has surpassed Germany in the UEFA coefficient rankings.

Association club coefficients


Country Clubs Pts
1
Spain 7/7 92.712

2
England 7/7 66.034

3
Italy 6/6 64.082

4
Germany 6/7 63.998

Huh, so just when UEFA give it to us by default, Italy manage to claw the spot back

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 1 2017, 04:06 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 30 2017, 09:59 PM) *
Huh, so just when UEFA give it to us by default, Italy manage to claw the spot back


Indeed.

Posted by: Danny Oct 2 2017, 10:47 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Oct 1 2017, 04:06 PM) *
Indeed.


I admit Serie A's strength has massively grown the past 18 months. It is justifiably ahead now of Germany and is scraping its way back to being one of Europe's absolute best.

I guess the difference with the old days is back then the Milan clubs and Juve dominated the world through Catenaccio and everyone was scared to play them. Serie A was feared.

It isn't now - Barcelona, PSG and Real are the only teams now feared and even then, all of them can be vulnerable now and then.

And also Serie A's top teams as of right now are Juve, Napoli, Roma and Inter - none of whom play in the old school style.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 7 2017, 12:07 PM

QUOTE (Danny @ Oct 2 2017, 10:47 AM) *
I admit Serie A's strength has massively grown the past 18 months. It is justifiably ahead now of Germany and is scraping its way back to being one of Europe's absolute best.

I guess the difference with the old days is back then the Milan clubs and Juve dominated the world through Catenaccio and everyone was scared to play them. Serie A was feared.

It isn't now - Barcelona, PSG and Real are the only teams now feared and even then, all of them can be vulnerable now and then.

And also Serie A's top teams as of right now are Juve, Napoli, Roma and Inter - none of whom play in the old school style.

And none of them are exactly feared by anyone.

Roma and Napoli have been bad in the CL every time they've been given the chance to play in the competition. Juve have gotten to 2 finals and completely folded, while Inter have been in as bad a slump as we have in the last few years. A decent start to the season for them doesn't say much as they then tend to press the self-destruct button at some point during the season

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 7 2017, 03:09 PM

To be frank, Juve have been unlucky in those finals as they've faced Barça and Madrid both in their best moments.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 7 2017, 09:33 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Oct 7 2017, 03:09 PM) *
To be frank, Juve have been unlucky in those finals as they've faced Barça and Madrid both in their best moments.

Well that's the point of getting to the final, you're facing the best

Real or Barca have been present in the final of the CL for the last few years without fail. So they're the teams you have to beat to win it and Juve have shown to be big time chokers each time

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 7 2017, 10:20 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Oct 7 2017, 09:33 PM) *
Well that's the point of getting to the final, you're facing the best

Real or Barca have been present in the final of the CL for the last few years without fail. So they're the teams you have to beat to win it and Juve have shown to be big time chokers each time


We got Liverpool in 2007.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 8 2017, 10:09 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Oct 7 2017, 10:20 PM) *
We got Liverpool in 2007.

I think that until 2012 football wasn't as monopolized by the Spanish teams as it has become in these last few years. Which has coincided with Juve's rise as well. They're unlucky in that way, but they lost 2 finals by big margins when they should have done better than they did. They've always struggled in Europe, especially in the crucial moments. And this is not just a recent thing, but a historical fact

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 8 2017, 11:23 AM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Oct 8 2017, 10:09 AM) *
I think that until 2012 football wasn't as monopolized by the Spanish teams as it has become in these last few years. Which has coincided with Juve's rise as well. They're unlucky in that way, but they lost 2 finals by big margins when they should have done better than they did. They've always struggled in Europe, especially in the crucial moments. And this is not just a recent thing, but a historical fact


I was speaking about those two finals only since you brought them up. I think any team would have lost them, not just Juve.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 8 2017, 01:17 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Oct 8 2017, 11:23 AM) *
I was speaking about those two finals only since you brought them up. I think any team would have lost them, not just Juve.

Maybe you're right, we'll never know. That being said, Juve absolutely crumbled both times and they were better than that each time but simply caved under the pressure

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 8 2017, 05:15 PM

No offense guys, but this is a pretty stupid argument.

Football in the 00's and early 10's was, like Han said, different and not monopolized by Real and Barcelona. Nowadays to win the CL you gotta win against one of the two teams (or both), it's that simple. Just think of it: Bayern, Barcelona, Real Madrid - that's all we've seen in the last couple of years. No one stood a real chance, Atletico was the only team that got near to it.

Would any team loose to Madrid last season? Who knows. That's very counterfactual. But what I do know is that Juventus could have done more, in terms of formation, tactics, preparation, etc.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 9 2017, 12:06 AM

But it doesn't change the fact that in our last three CL finals we faced Juventus and twice Liverpool. Obviously it was more difficult for Juve with Barça and Madrid, regardless of how much football has changed since then.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 9 2017, 12:47 AM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Oct 9 2017, 02:06 AM) *
But it doesn't change the fact that in our last three CL finals we faced Juventus and twice Liverpool. Obviously it was more difficult for Juve with Barça and Madrid, regardless of how much football has changed since then.

Hmh? I really don't get your point. We faced Liverpool, Liverpool faced us. Milan in 2007 wasn't even considered a top contender. But back then 10 or even more clubs could have been in the final and it would be no surprise. Nowadays and club other then Barcelona, Real and Bayern winning the CL (let alone playing the final) is a major upset.

But seriously, I don't get what you're trying to say by this comparison? That we had an easier job back then in 2007, 2005 and 2003 then Juventus in their last finals?

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 9 2017, 06:32 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Oct 9 2017, 12:47 AM) *
But seriously, I don't get what you're trying to say by this comparison? That we had an easier job back then in 2007, 2005 and 2003 then Juventus in their last finals?


Of course. Are you perhaps claiming otherwise?

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Apr 3 2018, 09:11 PM

Juve - Madrid ; speechless.

Sheet class from Zidane’s team

Posted by: X-Offender Apr 3 2018, 11:25 PM

Ronaldo’s goal though...

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Apr 4 2018, 08:49 AM

It's so depressing when you see that Milan needs to be at their best perfomance only to get trashed 3-1 by Juventus, the same team that is world's apart from Real who trashed them at home. This is why I'm losing faith and interest in football rapidly. Some teams are simply too strong.

Posted by: X-Offender Apr 4 2018, 08:59 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Apr 4 2018, 08:49 AM) *
It's so depressing when you see that Milan needs to be at their best perfomance only to get trashed 3-1 by Juventus, the same team that is world's apart from Real who trashed them at home. This is why I'm losing faith and interest in football rapidly. Some teams are simply too strong.


Honestly, Juve were dominating Real till they scored their second. Real were just out of it, they couldn't get out of their own half. Then Ronaldo happened, Juve got demoralized, Dybala got a red card, and the game turned itself. That's football for you.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Apr 5 2018, 11:01 AM

Naah, Ronaldo happened when it already went down 0-1 (at home). The difference in class is obvious.

Posted by: han2503 Apr 5 2018, 03:30 PM

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Apr 3 2018, 09:11 PM) *
Juve - Madrid ; speechless.

Sheet class from Zidane’s team

Meh, that's Ronaldo's team not Zidane's. I really wonder whether he even does any coaching with this team or just picks 11 players each game and just tells them to go out there and do what they do. His league form is a testament to this.

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Apr 4 2018, 08:49 AM) *
It's so depressing when you see that Milan needs to be at their best perfomance only to get trashed 3-1 by Juventus, the same team that is world's apart from Real who trashed them at home. This is why I'm losing faith and interest in football rapidly. Some teams are simply too strong.

Meh. We were unlucky against Juve, but that's just the way it is against them in the league, they always have the bounce of the ball going their way and it's been so since Buffon clawed out Muntari's shot from behind the line. But once they're in the CL and they're at the tail end, they tend to bottle it and it's been this way since around 1996. So...

Football is all about money, and Real have built practically 2 top class teams because they have plenty of it. The result against Juve could have easily been very different. The early goal was strange and it seemed like Juve were half asleep still. But they dominated the majority of the game against a team who has some of the best players in the world playing for them.

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Apr 5 2018, 11:01 AM) *
Naah, Ronaldo happened when it already went down 0-1 (at home). The difference in class is obvious.

And who scored that goal? He's a difference maker, just like Messi is. Juve imo have one of the best teams in the World. They might be a step behind Real and Barca, but they're definitely on par with Bayern, City, PSG, etc. All of which are teams with endless resources their disposal

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Apr 5 2018, 11:53 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Apr 5 2018, 05:30 PM) *
Meh, that's Ronaldo's team not Zidane's. I really wonder whether he even does any coaching with this team or just picks 11 players each game and just tells them to go out there and do what they do. His league form is a testament to this.


Meh. We were unlucky against Juve, but that's just the way it is against them in the league, they always have the bounce of the ball going their way and it's been so since Buffon clawed out Muntari's shot from behind the line. But once they're in the CL and they're at the tail end, they tend to bottle it and it's been this way since around 1996. So...

Football is all about money, and Real have built practically 2 top class teams because they have plenty of it. The result against Juve could have easily been very different. The early goal was strange and it seemed like Juve were half asleep still. But they dominated the majority of the game against a team who has some of the best players in the world playing for them.


And who scored that goal? He's a difference maker, just like Messi is. Juve imo have one of the best teams in the World. They might be a step behind Real and Barca, but they're definitely on par with Bayern, City, PSG, etc. All of which are teams with endless resources their disposal

And, bar Bayern, without international success...

Posted by: X-Offender Apr 6 2018, 11:42 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Apr 5 2018, 11:01 AM) *
Naah, Ronaldo happened when it already went down 0-1 (at home). The difference in class is obvious.


Are you equating an early goal to superiority on the pitch?

Posted by: William405 Apr 10 2018, 09:52 PM

Roma pass against Barca! Miracles still exist!!

Posted by: X-Offender Apr 10 2018, 09:53 PM

Holy sh*t Roma! What a game! Kudos.

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Apr 11 2018, 12:54 PM

when i saw live score in the morning i thought there was some error.. Hope Roma does not get madrid in next round

Posted by: han2503 Apr 11 2018, 09:03 PM

Watching that game against Roma I was actually as nervous as I am when watching big Milan games. Was so routing for them to go through. They deserved it

Juve currently 2-0 up against Real as well

Posted by: han2503 Apr 11 2018, 09:08 PM

And they complete the comeback! 3-0

Honestly. I'm happy about this. To see our league being validated like this against the 2 best teams in the world is so satisfying

Posted by: han2503 Apr 11 2018, 09:46 PM

How Real are helped by the refs each year is really disgusting. Shameful. Had it been the other way around at the time during the game, it would have never been given.

It's not just money ruining football, it's bodies like Fifa and Uefa.

Posted by: X-Offender Apr 11 2018, 10:06 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Apr 11 2018, 09:46 PM) *
How Real are helped by the refs each year is really disgusting. Shameful. Had it been the other way around at the time during the game, it would have never been given.

It's not just money ruining football, it's bodies like Fifa and Uefa.


Come on man, it was a penalty. I'm sorry about Juve as well, but Benatia committed foul.

And how do FIFA and UEFA ruin football if it had been the referee's mistake?

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Apr 11 2018, 11:07 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Apr 12 2018, 12:46 AM) *
How Real are helped by the refs each year is really disgusting. Shameful. Had it been the other way around at the time during the game, it would have never been given.

It's not just money ruining football, it's bodies like Fifa and Uefa.


Agreed, some things never change sad.gif Agnelli spoke out offering to train UEFA refs and further asserted VAR as THE solution. Benatia touched the ball, there was a dive, then a penalty. So sad to see Buffon go off like that. Especially after a performance like tonight.

Posted by: han2503 Apr 12 2018, 02:56 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Apr 11 2018, 10:06 PM) *
Come on man, it was a penalty. I'm sorry about Juve as well, but Benatia committed foul.

And how do FIFA and UEFA ruin football if it had been the referee's mistake?

It was a very soft one. And I can 100% guarantee you that had it been on the other side of the pitch, he would have never in a million years whistled for it.

Do you remember the game against Bayern last year for them? Blatant "Errors" from the refs then as well.



Look I don't really feel sorry for Juve, this is a taste of their own medicine. As they're always getting such favourable calls in the league. But what angers me is these teams like Real and Barca always getting a helping hand from the refs, even after already having such a huge upper hand over the rest of the clubs because of the players they have and can afford to get.

Don't tell me you don't believe that these governing bodies don't mess around with sh!t to get the more commercially advantageous outcomes for themselves

Posted by: X-Offender Apr 12 2018, 09:35 PM

Nah, I don't believe for a second that the ref whistled for the penalty because UEFA had advised him to favor Madrid. He saw a foul inside the area and made a decision.

Now that I've re-watched the moment a few times, I still think Benatia committed foul. HOWEVER, I do believe that it wasn't so blatant and the referee could have easily let the game go to extra time. In other words, there was a foul and the ref made the right call, but if he hadn't given the penalty then the game would have gone on and nobody would have talked about it ever again. Just like nobody talked about the obvious foul on Cuadrado in the first leg.

Posted by: han2503 May 1 2018, 09:00 PM

Real's luck in this competition for these last 3 years has been astounding

Posted by: Fillipo Simone May 1 2018, 09:50 PM

Well, luck, paid referees, money, Zidane, talent - call it whatever you like. But they've made the CL very boring.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 May 2 2018, 09:41 AM

Think its up to Mo Salah to end this Madrid run in the CL. Currently in Rome gonna go to the stafium to watch the semi-final tonight 96.gif

Nevertheless, Zidane has done history, both as a player and now as a coach. Hats off to the man.

Posted by: han2503 May 2 2018, 07:23 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ May 1 2018, 09:50 PM) *
Well, luck, paid referees, money, Zidane, talent - call it whatever you like. But they've made the CL very boring.

Zidane? Really? I don't think he has much of an input. Certainly not in a tactical sense. Bayern wiped the floor with them in both legs yet they still managed to somehow win, and it wasn't because of some master plan. The money has also helped, their squad is stacked and it doesn't really matter who he picks as they're all at a certain level and will provide quality performances

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ May 2 2018, 09:41 AM) *
Think its up to Mo Salah to end this Madrid run in the CL. Currently in Rome gonna go to the stafium to watch the semi-final tonight 96.gif

Nevertheless, Zidane has done history, both as a player and now as a coach. Hats off to the man.

Hmm, I'm not counting Roma out yet. And btw, I'm supremely jealous that you're going to be there at the Olimpico. I'm sure it will be an amazing night. Hopefully Roma can pull off another miracle

Sure, Zidane will be remembered for achieving a historic feat but he would tank at any other club because I don't think he's really that good a coach, his league form illustrates this perfectly

Posted by: Fillipo Simone May 2 2018, 08:39 PM

Well, Zidane achieved what no one did so far with Real Madrid. I get what you're saying Han but I really cannot downplay Zidane's role in this Madrid-domination. No one achieved this so far, I really think Zizou has to get some credit for it.

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan May 3 2018, 08:00 AM

Roma got robbed...

Posted by: Rossoneri7 May 3 2018, 03:44 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ May 2 2018, 10:23 PM) *
Hmm, I'm not counting Roma out yet. And btw, I'm supremely jealous that you're going to be there at the Olimpico. I'm sure it will be an amazing night. Hopefully Roma can pull off another miracle

Sure, Zidane will be remembered for achieving a historic feat but he would tank at any other club because I don't think he's really that good a coach, his league form illustrates this perfectly


What a game! I was a neutral, as my friends were cheering on Liverpool, while I slightly wanted the Italians through but enjoyed watching Momo salah king.gif . In the end it was a beautiful game, the ref made questionable calls. However the atmosphere was amazing, so amazing I missed Milan. Not this Milan, but the one between 2002 and 2007. A feeling like your sick in your stomatch. Especially when the CL music started.

Romans were gutted, they believe the correct final should have been Bayern v Roma. Oh well, what a night devil.gif

On Zidane, I believe he would be successful at any 'top' club he goes to. Only time will tell if he is any good at another club. However, based on the games I've watched him coach; he has shown tactical prowess and intelligence. I believe he will be successful at any 'top' club.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 30 2018, 09:30 PM

Inter and Napoli got some hellish groups. Juve got a tough one, too. But many interesting match-ups in the group stage. I like it.

By the way, any thoughts on Ronaldo not winning the best player award? I find it ridiculous. Modric was great, and had a phenomenal WC. But in the CL it was Ronaldo who won it for them.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 31 2018, 10:14 PM

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Aug 30 2018, 09:30 PM) *
Inter and Napoli got some hellish groups. Juve got a tough one, too. But many interesting match-ups in the group stage. I like it.

By the way, any thoughts on Ronaldo not winning the best player award? I find it ridiculous. Modric was great, and had a phenomenal WC. But in the CL it was Ronaldo who won it for them.

Modric might not have been as in your face important as Ronaldo, but he was just as crucial for Real. Plus, it's getting old to always see Ronaldo or Messi winning it. Modric is a refreshing choice imo, and I hope it's the same thing with the Ballon D'or, he deserves it

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 31 2018, 11:42 PM

QUOTE (han2503 @ Aug 31 2018, 10:14 PM) *
Modric might not have been as in your face important as Ronaldo, but he was just as crucial for Real. Plus, it's getting old to always see Ronaldo or Messi winning it. Modric is a refreshing choice imo, and I hope it's the same thing with the Ballon D'or, he deserves it


I completely disagree.

Ronaldo
Games - 12
Goals - 15
Assists - 3
Player of the week - 4

Modric
Games - 11
Goals - 1
Assists - 1
Player of the week - 0

Come on, it's plain obvious. Without Ronaldo, Madrid would have never won the CL.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 1 2018, 12:13 AM

A debate old as time, or football at least. I have to say that I agree with Han. Look everyone knows that Ronaldo has killer stats. But like Han said, the Ronaldo-Messi thing really became boring as hell, especially with CR7 dominating in every possible way. I mean it’s giving the award to someone who’s actually playing amazing on a different style and level/way then the mentioned two. Think of Pirlo and Kaka. Milan never would have won the CL without Kaka and his goals/assists. But wasn’t Pirlo as important neverthenless?

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 1 2018, 01:34 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Sep 1 2018, 12:13 AM) *
A debate old as time, or football at least. I have to say that I agree with Han. Look everyone knows that Ronaldo has killer stats. But like Han said, the Ronaldo-Messi thing really became boring as hell, especially with CR7 dominating in every possible way. I mean it’s giving the award to someone who’s actually playing amazing on a different style and level/way then the mentioned two. Think of Pirlo and Kaka. Milan never would have won the CL without Kaka and his goals/assists. But wasn’t Pirlo as important neverthenless?


Pirlo never was as important as Kaka', that goes without saying. It was Kaka' who stepped up during that season and won games single-handedly for us.

It's the same argument here. Just because Ronaldo and Messi have been winning it for the past 10 years doesn't mean that a fantastic CL run by Ronaldo should be overshadowed by Modric's great season, which mostly culminated in the WC rather than in the CL.

It's a theft, a disgrace, and a shameful thing to do, giving it to Modric.

PS: Don't get me wrong, I think Modric is a fantastic player, and probably the best midfielder in the world right now. But we have to look at things objectively. His season in the CL compared to Ronaldo's don't compare.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 19 2019, 08:43 AM

So, Atalanta start by losing 4-0 to Dinamo. Shows you how weak Serie A actually is.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 19 2019, 09:54 AM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Sep 19 2019, 08:43 AM) *
So, Atalanta start by losing 4-0 to Dinamo. Shows you how weak Serie A actually is.


Well, Napoli did beat the champions of Europe, and Juve almost won vs Atletico last night in Madrid. So, I don't think that's a right assessment to make.

Rather, it's the given outcome of what happens when mid-table clubs like Atalanta pretend to be part of the big boys. They just can't handle it. We would have never lost 4-0, even at our current state.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 20 2019, 10:09 PM

I still think it's both. Loosing 4-0 to Dinamo Zagreb is a shocking result for a 4th placed Serie A team, mid-table club or not. Ten years ago a mid-table club in Italy would most probably win 2-0 or 3-0 against Dinamo...

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 1 2019, 09:59 PM

Tottenham 2-7 Bayern

Jeez...

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 2 2019, 11:20 AM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Sep 19 2019, 11:43 AM) *
So, Atalanta start by losing 4-0 to Dinamo. Shows you how weak Serie A actually is.


Then how weak is Real Madrid

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 2 2019, 07:49 PM

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Oct 2 2019, 01:20 PM) *
Then how weak is Real Madrid

Real Madrid did not lose 4-0. Atalanta on the other hand lost yet again. Hardly a good argument.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 3 2019, 04:01 PM

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Oct 2 2019, 07:49 PM) *
Real Madrid did not lose 4-0. Atalanta on the other hand lost yet again. Hardly a good argument.

What do you say re Spurs then?

Atalanta are just not cut out for this level. They're good in Serie A but the CL was always going to be a huge ask for them. And it will probably have a negative effect on their league performances this season as well.

This is not really an indication of a league's strength

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