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Zed.D
post Jul 8 2014, 11:16 PM
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QUOTE (acid911 @ Jul 9 2014, 02:32 AM) *
I hear you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) It is not as much their perfectness than the sheer inability of this Brazilian team. Words will be written on what happened here, I'd rather not waste mine. But when a player like Hernanes who controls the midfield is just a token call up, the less said about the forward lineup the better, everything was (and is) broken and disjointed.

It was just the Neymar Factor, and the Silva Marshalling of the defense that got them this far. Because otherwise, the inability had shown in all matches, from Hulk missing stupid chances, Fred and Jo chickening out, Marcelo playing just because he wore a certain shirt. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) Oscar being sacrificed for the inefficiency of the midfield.

Completely agreed. Brazil have about 4-5 great players, the rest are mediocre at best. that said Germany can play flawless football against any team whether they dominate/win or not, but I don't enjoy them.

Argentina or Holland, either one will be fine by me.
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X-Offender
post Jul 8 2014, 11:29 PM
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This reminded me of Istanbul 2005 in terms of shock value. I was certain Germany would win, but never I imagined like this! Shame that Oezil didn't make it eight and 20 seconds later Oscar scored. But, oh well...

Now for the tool to win the final!
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Danny
post Jul 8 2014, 11:35 PM
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QUOTE (acid911 @ Jul 8 2014, 09:02 PM) *
I hear you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) It is not as much their perfectness than the sheer inability of this Brazilian team. Words will be written on what happened here, I'd rather not waste mine. But when a player like Hernanes who controls the midfield is just a token call up, the less said about the forward lineup the better, everything was (and is) broken and disjointed.


I said this after Mexico. They have some great players but those players are countered by some abject ones.

You've got the titan of Silva in defence partnered by the luducrous Luiz, you have the cultured Oscar along with the clunky and crude Hulk, the solid Gustavo next to the inconsistent Fernandinho, while the sparkling Neymar next to the utterly woeful Fred.

You can't put sh*t and silk together and expect silk overall.

All you're left with is a messy pile of sh*t and silk.

As for Moura not being called up, there's another ommission I remain bewildered by.
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Rossoneri7
post Jul 8 2014, 11:44 PM
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Germany v Holland.

Here I was hoping for a South American team to win it, alas Europe is just too good for them.

Scolari did a bad job at picking his squad; Kaka or Ronaldinho should have been included. You need someone with the keys to unlock a German side at its very peak. It was that Chile game that did it for me, though I always wanted their romance to continue for the magic it would bring to the country. Yet their coach did not choose well, even if he did pick the top players playing in Europe, he still did not bring the right squad to the tournament.

That said, this Germany side was absolutely ruthless. I would like the Netherlands to go through as well, and in the same fashion (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) So Germany v Holland? I like the idea of that, but I think Germany have more than enough to drum Holland with 3/4 goals at the very least.

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Danny
post Jul 8 2014, 11:49 PM
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Kaka is finished. But Ronaldinho isn't.
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Rossoneri7
post Jul 8 2014, 11:59 PM
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If not Kaka Kaka or Ronaldinho, bring in effective players with experience. Not freakin Fred.

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Fillipo Simone
post Jul 9 2014, 12:32 AM
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QUOTE (acid911 @ Jul 8 2014, 11:56 PM) *
Well the tool coach is lucky the two most influential Brazil players are out. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) And their other tool coach started playing European style, taking the wrong players to the tournament, talentless hacks. Many were sidelined, many are left to rot on the bench and big names players took the pitch, who are, again, talentless hacks. Wheels had to come off.

It had to happen eventually, luckily I don't watch German games, just following the details.

Luck? Luck is only part of this game my friend, I really think Lw deserves some credit. He did everything right; Germany always trashes someone on the WC, only now he timed this at the crucial moment.

QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jul 9 2014, 12:02 AM) *
In acid's defense, Germany have looked better since Low did what every person who watches football said to do - put Lahm at full back. Doesn't take a genius to do that.

Well, someone on here said it was a master plan for keeping strength, efficiency and freshness for the last game(s). I think it was right. He spared Lahm on several occasions from the up and down runs while at the same time managed to get Khedira into the game on his own pace. He also kept Klose fresh by rotating the attack.

QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 9 2014, 01:49 AM) *
Kaka is finished. But Ronaldinho isn't.

I think both could add up something to this Brazil squad. Kaka may be finished, but he sure would do better then Bernard or Fred. It's not always about who's in form or not - it has more to do with the feel for the flow, game rhythm, etc. You see Kaka is more of a decent guy who'd happily sit on the bench and quietly wait his few minutes. Dinho? Not so much, he'd draw more attention. Felipao did the same in 2002 when he avoided Romario whom everyone wanted to see in the roster, Elber and a few others as well.

That's why I think Kaka could have been a compromise pick. Hell, I'm sure even Robinho or Pato would have done better then Jo and Fred.

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Jul 9 2014, 01:59 AM) *
If not Kaka Kaka or Ronaldinho, bring in effective players with experience. Not freakin Fred.

Indeed.
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dst
post Jul 9 2014, 01:36 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 9 2014, 01:49 AM) *
Kaka is finished. But Ronaldinho isn't.

Kaka is not finished, Ronaldinho is finished and fat.
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han2503
post Jul 9 2014, 01:56 PM
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Finished or not, all of Robinho, Kaka or Ronaldinho would have given Brazil something much better than what Fred or Jo ever could
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Fillipo Simone
post Jul 9 2014, 02:09 PM
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Indeed. But the tragedy is, even with the three players in the roster, I'm convinced Brazil would have gone down to Germany by 7 once again.

Take a look at these Bleacher Report comments. I think they're sharp:

First half analysis

Cesar: Continually exposed.

Maicon: Awful.

Luiz: Atrocious.

Dante: Embarrassingly poor.

Marcelo: Walked past.

Fernandinho: Zero work-rate.

Gustavo: Shambolic.

Hulk: Woeful.

Oscar: Worked hard, but zero creativity.

Bernard: Good early few minutes, anonymous since.

Fred: Mainly been situated outside his own penalty box.

Second half analysis

Cesar: Still didn't save anything.

Maicon: Terrible display.

Luiz: The investigation must start here. A truly inept, selfish and suicidal performance.

Dante: Dreadful.

Marcelo: Must be his worst performance ever.

Gustavo: Very lethargic.

Paulinho: Made no impression.

Ramires: As with Paulinho.

Oscar: Scored a pointless consolation.

Bernard: Couldn't impact the game.

Fred: Booed and substituted.

Willian: Managed little.
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han2503
post Jul 9 2014, 02:57 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jul 9 2014, 02:09 PM) *
Indeed. But the tragedy is, even with the three players in the roster, I'm convinced Brazil would have gone down to Germany by 7 once again.

Take a look at these Bleacher Report comments. I think they're sharp:

First half analysis

Cesar: Continually exposed.

Maicon: Awful.

Luiz: Atrocious.

Dante: Embarrassingly poor.

Marcelo: Walked past.

Fernandinho: Zero work-rate.

Gustavo: Shambolic.

Hulk: Woeful.

Oscar: Worked hard, but zero creativity.

Bernard: Good early few minutes, anonymous since.

Fred: Mainly been situated outside his own penalty box.

Second half analysis

Cesar: Still didn't save anything.

Maicon: Terrible display.

Luiz: The investigation must start here. A truly inept, selfish and suicidal performance.

Dante: Dreadful.

Marcelo: Must be his worst performance ever.

Gustavo: Very lethargic.

Paulinho: Made no impression.

Ramires: As with Paulinho.

Oscar: Scored a pointless consolation.

Bernard: Couldn't impact the game.

Fred: Booed and substituted.

Willian: Managed little.

Oh yeah, there's no question that Brazil were absolutely woeful from start to finish. Their suicide performance is the reason they lost by such a margin, but attacking wise it would have helped to have someone level headed who can actually contribute to the play instead of Fred.

Imo Scolari bottled it big time here, the defence was a mess, but that's expected when you have to leave David Luiz to be the leader of the defence. He has absolutely no self-discipline, he spent more time in Germany's penalty box than his own. They have no defence without Silva simply because he manages to control the gung-ho attitude of the rest of the players, Marcelo and Maicon atyck too much and leave too much spaces as well, Dante was bad but you can't really fault him much since he was left outnumbered at the back countless times.

That midfield though, what has Scolari been thinking throughout the tournament is beyond me, the problems were very obviously visible from the first match against Croatia where they very obviously lost the midfield battle and therefore the control of the game and were lucky thanks to the ref saving their @sses. Same thing happened against Mexico. Why wasn't Hernanes playing? Why has Paulinho been picked consistently, he is just absolutely awful.

Don't get me started on the likes of Hulk and Fred

Germany were their usual ruthless selves, I personally don't see much different from this game to the first one they played against an equally suicidal Portugal, only Portugal with 10 men managed to defend better than what Brazil were doing yesterday.

I find myself fearfully expecting Germany to win this whole thing now. They have the momentum and the wind is blowing in their sails. And frankly I can't see either Argentina or Holland beating them at this point.
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Danny
post Jul 9 2014, 03:46 PM
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Dare I say it, it wasn't Luiz as captain, it wasn't Fred up front, nor the absence of Silva or Neymar which cost Brazil.

It was Scolari. That's now two major projects in a row he's f*cked up, and I just don't think he's a good manager any more.

His arrogance is embarrassing, his insults to journalists ridiculous, he's lost the plot totally and frankly made a balls-up of this Brazil team.

From the original selections to the way the team played - it was extraordinarily poor.

Are you seriously telling me a team with world class players like Silva, Cesar, Marcello, Alves, Gustavo, Fernandinho, Willian, Ramires, Oscar, Hulk, Neymar, Moura (exactly), Hernanes etc etc was as bad as this entire world cup showed?

No.

Scolari just got the whole thing wrong.
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Jack Sparrow
post Jul 9 2014, 04:30 PM
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As bad as the world cup showed? Considering they entered the last four, it's not all bad. If they lost 2-1 or 1-0 perhaps we wouldn't be so harsh.

Germany would have been a stiff opponent for any.
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Jack Bauer
post Jul 9 2014, 08:22 PM
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De Jong is fit and will start.
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Fillipo Simone
post Jul 9 2014, 09:55 PM
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Absolute borefest.
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