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> Serie A 2022/2023 Season, Serie A Discussion

 
han2503
post May 28 2023, 10:11 PM
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Btw, just want to add. What a truly terrible game that was. From both sides. Really horrible. Full of errors and wtf moments. Krunic especially p!sses me off so much when he's f@cking about with the ball in our box. Just insanely stupid at times. Cannot take watching these players start for us anymore.

Messias... My God! Just awful! How is he starting over Alexis? Offers absolutely nothing but mistakes

Krunic. He's a good/average players, but he needs to go back to being our bench option. Not replacing Kessie has proven to be one of the dumbest moves ever and it's basically cost us the season. Now with Bennacer potentially out for nearly 6 more months. We have to go all in for a starting mid, and that cannot be Loftus-f@cking-Cheek! Stop with the bargain buying! We should have cash to burn this summer. It better be used wisely. Milenkovic -Savic is available. He's not going to renew his contract and Lotito will have to play ball or lose him for free. Just go all in for him! And then you can f@ck about going for players like RLC.

The midfield, our strongest area last season, needs serious work. Pobega needs to be moved on, Vranckx isn't good enough, Krunic should be rotation and we'll also need a decent backup for Bennacer.

The attack... We need a proper striker who's strong and mobile. We cannot rely on Giroud like we do now. Messias, Origi, Rebic. All have to go.

The defensive situation is not as dire. A decent backup for Theo and another CB maybe so we can shift Kalulu to the right and we should be fine. Tata and Mirante should be gone with Sportiello most likely being the first incoming of the summer


So much work to be done. Hopefully we have the budget to do it.
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Danny
post May 28 2023, 10:42 PM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ May 28 2023, 09:56 PM) *
We didn't fluke anything in 2011 either. I always said that title was mostly down to individual brilliance. We had top top players in that squad. Ibra especially was a difference maker practically every week. For me, last season was much more of a collective effort. Yes, we at time rely on Leao's brilliance. But his numbers are no where near what Ibra used to pull off during that Scudetto winning season. Not to mention other players like Nesta, Thiago Silva, Pirlo, Seedorf, Robinho, Ronaldinho, Pato, etc. That team was stacked. We have a good first 11 now but no where near that kind of quality, especially off the bench


Do you want me to dredge the archives here and demonstrate what you actually said about 2011 as opposed to how you're historically revising your views now?

QUOTE
Don't think I've ever said that. Just don't credit Allegri with much for that win. He relied solely on his star players to win games.


Most managers do?! Remove Messi Iniesta Xavi or KDB Haaland and Silva and Barca and Man City aren't doing much.

I don't mean to be impertinent but what a silly comment!

At least we do agree we need a better manager (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Danny
post May 28 2023, 10:44 PM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ May 28 2023, 10:11 PM) *
Btw, just want to add. What a truly terrible game that was. From both sides. Really horrible. Full of errors and wtf moments. Krunic especially p!sses me off so much when he's f@cking about with the ball in our box. Just insanely stupid at times. Cannot take watching these players start for us anymore.

Messias... My God! Just awful! How is he starting over Alexis? Offers absolutely nothing but mistakes

Krunic. He's a good/average players, but he needs to go back to being our bench option. Not replacing Kessie has proven to be one of the dumbest moves ever and it's basically cost us the season. Now with Bennacer potentially out for nearly 6 more months. We have to go all in for a starting mid, and that cannot be Loftus-f@cking-Cheek! Stop with the bargain buying! We should have cash to burn this summer. It better be used wisely. Milenkovic -Savic is available. He's not going to renew his contract and Lotito will have to play ball or lose him for free. Just go all in for him! And then you can f@ck about going for players like RLC.

The midfield, our strongest area last season, needs serious work. Pobega needs to be moved on, Vranckx isn't good enough, Krunic should be rotation and we'll also need a decent backup for Bennacer.

The attack... We need a proper striker who's strong and mobile. We cannot rely on Giroud like we do now. Messias, Origi, Rebic. All have to go.

The defensive situation is not as dire. A decent backup for Theo and another CB maybe so we can shift Kalulu to the right and we should be fine. Tata and Mirante should be gone with Sportiello most likely being the first incoming of the summer


So much work to be done. Hopefully we have the budget to do it.


tbf it was practically a dead rubber for us (unless third place matters THAT much) and Juve are a dead team (yet again). Not surprising it was poor.
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post May 28 2023, 11:54 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ May 28 2023, 10:42 PM) *
Do you want me to dredge the archives here and demonstrate what you actually said about 2011 as opposed to how you're historically revising your views now?


Why does it matter?
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X-Offender
post May 28 2023, 11:59 PM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ May 28 2023, 10:11 PM) *
Btw, just want to add. What a truly terrible game that was. From both sides. Really horrible. Full of errors and wtf moments. Krunic especially p!sses me off so much when he's f@cking about with the ball in our box. Just insanely stupid at times. Cannot take watching these players start for us anymore.

Messias... My God! Just awful! How is he starting over Alexis? Offers absolutely nothing but mistakes

Krunic. He's a good/average players, but he needs to go back to being our bench option. Not replacing Kessie has proven to be one of the dumbest moves ever and it's basically cost us the season. Now with Bennacer potentially out for nearly 6 more months. We have to go all in for a starting mid, and that cannot be Loftus-f@cking-Cheek! Stop with the bargain buying! We should have cash to burn this summer. It better be used wisely. Milenkovic -Savic is available. He's not going to renew his contract and Lotito will have to play ball or lose him for free. Just go all in for him! And then you can f@ck about going for players like RLC.

The midfield, our strongest area last season, needs serious work. Pobega needs to be moved on, Vranckx isn't good enough, Krunic should be rotation and we'll also need a decent backup for Bennacer.

The attack... We need a proper striker who's strong and mobile. We cannot rely on Giroud like we do now. Messias, Origi, Rebic. All have to go.

The defensive situation is not as dire. A decent backup for Theo and another CB maybe so we can shift Kalulu to the right and we should be fine. Tata and Mirante should be gone with Sportiello most likely being the first incoming of the summer


So much work to be done. Hopefully we have the budget to do it.


SMS would be a top signing, but I also feel we need some creativity in that midfield. Nobody, not even Bennacer has it. We need some sort of Seedorf-esque type of player that can play both AM and CM. Calhanoglu was it, but he was mostly sh*t with us and suddenly decided to become good at Inter.

Fabrizio Romano posted a few minutes ago that the Kamada deal is almost settled and done. The guy is an AM. I have no idea how good he is cos I've never seen him play. But that means that either CDK or Brahim will leave.

Also, the RW and CF situations need to be addressed. We need two quality signings in those areas. And I mean top quality, not another Origi or another Saladmaker.
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post May 29 2023, 12:06 AM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ May 28 2023, 09:56 PM) *
No, he should go.

Grateful for all he's done, but this team has out-grown him

What was previously an exciting high press system has turned into a stale, static mess.

I'll always hold him in high regard as he is the one who turned this rag-tag bunch of players into champions, but he's reached the limit of what he can give to this team imo. If we keep him next season I fear it will get even worse


I'm not a Pioli fan by any means, but look at his track record. He inherited this team from the gutter and in the last 3 years he achieved 1) CL football after 7 years, 2) Scudetto with an inferior team to the competition, 3) CL semi-finals after 16 years and CL football again.

Yes, we've played like sh*t this season, but perhaps Pioli is not the main culprit here. This team overachieved last season, and when you overachieve, unless you strengthen your squad properly, you're most probably going to flop next season.

I would personally blame management first, then the players, and then Pioli. In that particular order.
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Rossoneri7
post May 29 2023, 10:21 AM
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So Milan have been confirmed a CL birth, a season of ups and downs - but I for one am proud, for obvious reasons.

Pioli is going to be confirmed, there is no point in arguing over this matter as he has done more than we all expected of him since his appointment.

A marquee signing is what I look forward to, but I doubt there will be BIG money thrown around. Milan will remain on this path, Cardinale stated when he took over that he will not deviate from the strategy Elliot put in place. Yes that means to continue focusing on young players, but in the club?s defense who knows better than Maldini, Massara and Pioli what this team lacks.

In terms of who moves on, I think Zlatan would leave on his own as he has nothing more to give other than a hard fought Scudetto. Otherwise; Diaz, Origi, Florenzi, Dest, Ballo Toure, Vranxx, to name a few would most likely depart this summer.


I believe this summer would be an interesting one, as the appeal to play for ?this? Milan is different from previous seasons, where the project and aims of the club are clear for all to see that the club are back in business (disclaimer: not Milan of the old guard, but an new, fresh and exciting Milan who are punching above their weight from one season to the next).
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Danny
post May 29 2023, 11:35 AM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ May 28 2023, 11:54 PM) *
Why does it matter?


Because I won't be called or inferred to as a liar?
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Danny
post May 29 2023, 11:36 AM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ May 29 2023, 12:06 AM) *
I'm not a Pioli fan by any means, but look at his track record. He inherited this team from the gutter and in the last 3 years he achieved 1) CL football after 7 years, 2) Scudetto with an inferior team to the competition, 3) CL semi-finals after 16 years and CL football again.

Yes, we've played like sh*t this season, but perhaps Pioli is not the main culprit here. This team overachieved last season, and when you overachieve, unless you strengthen your squad properly, you're most probably going to flop next season.

I would personally blame management first, then the players, and then Pioli. In that particular order.


Buck always stops with the manager. The club might be inherently flawed, but the product on the pitch is a direct consquence of the manager's setup.
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han2503
post May 29 2023, 03:10 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ May 28 2023, 10:42 PM) *
Do you want me to dredge the archives here and demonstrate what you actually said about 2011 as opposed to how you're historically revising your views now?



Most managers do?! Remove Messi Iniesta Xavi or KDB Haaland and Silva and Barca and Man City aren't doing much.

I don't mean to be impertinent but what a silly comment!

At least we do agree we need a better manager (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Please do. Because I never think I said we were sh!t and worse than teams like Juve or Inter at the time. We had top top players in that squad. Sure some were in their sunset years but they were still difference makers.

Ibra alone during that time used to practically guarantee the team he was with the title.

If you can show me a post where I said we were sh!t and fluked it please do.

I'll always say we won it in spite of Allegri though. Some of the most horrific football I've witnessed as a Milan fan came under his tutelage. Don't get me started on using Urby as an AM and other WTF decisions he made during his time.

And also, yes, great players make great teams. But truly great coaches turn those bunch of great players intoa machine that churns out wins. Guardiola has a nearly billion pound team under his hands, but he's the mind behind how they play and why they're so successful imo

QUOTE (Danny @ May 28 2023, 10:44 PM) *
tbf it was practically a dead rubber for us (unless third place matters THAT much) and Juve are a dead team (yet again). Not surprising it was poor.

We still needed to get points on the board to make it safe. Not to mention, if Juve somehow successfully appeal this, we're still points short off the 10 they would get back. So Ideally we win the next game as well and the drop points at Udine next weekend. That way, we can say that we got our spot on the field.

QUOTE (X-Offender @ May 28 2023, 11:59 PM) *
SMS would be a top signing, but I also feel we need some creativity in that midfield. Nobody, not even Bennacer has it. We need some sort of Seedorf-esque type of player that can play both AM and CM. Calhanoglu was it, but he was mostly sh*t with us and suddenly decided to become good at Inter.

Fabrizio Romano posted a few minutes ago that the Kamada deal is almost settled and done. The guy is an AM. I have no idea how good he is cos I've never seen him play. But that means that either CDK or Brahim will leave.

Also, the RW and CF situations need to be addressed. We need two quality signings in those areas. And I mean top quality, not another Origi or another Saladmaker.

SMS would be the perfect signing imo. We can finally switch to a proper 4-3-3. A midfield with him, Tonali and Benna would be a perfect balance of strength, creativity, running power and defensive cover imo. SMS is such a unique mid because he can practically go from a holding/defensive mod to a false 9. I say sink 40m into him. And he'll transform our play completely.

Kamada seems to be getting people hyped. I have no idea what he can offer. But for free and considering teams like Dortmund and Atletico wanted him. He'll be a good addition, and probably means Brahim will be leaving as well.

There are some seriously good free players on the market this summer. Thuram and Tielemans should be at the top of our list. Thuram can play on the wing as well so he'd fulfill the role Rebic used to when he was still an actual football player. And Tielemans would basically complete our midfield. With the most senior player in that lot being SMS.

The rest of the cash we can spend on the RW and a decent Theo backup.

QUOTE (X-Offender @ May 29 2023, 12:06 AM) *
I'm not a Pioli fan by any means, but look at his track record. He inherited this team from the gutter and in the last 3 years he achieved 1) CL football after 7 years, 2) Scudetto with an inferior team to the competition, 3) CL semi-finals after 16 years and CL football again.

Yes, we've played like sh*t this season, but perhaps Pioli is not the main culprit here. This team overachieved last season, and when you overachieve, unless you strengthen your squad properly, you're most probably going to flop next season.

I would personally blame management first, then the players, and then Pioli. In that particular order.

I agree there.

Actually I would assign ownership with the biggest blame. Maldini and Massara had clear plans for last summer. All of which where thwarted by the needlessly long negotiations for their own contracts, which should have been handled before the summer window even started and a shoe string budget set by the new ownership

Botman and Sanches would have been improvements and stepping stones for what was a good team that won the league but still needed work. Instead we ended up with panic buys and a major mistake in CDK

QUOTE (Danny @ May 29 2023, 11:35 AM) *
Because I won't be called or inferred to as a liar?

Never called you a liar though...

Just can't remember ever saying that about our 2011 team

QUOTE (Danny @ May 29 2023, 11:36 AM) *
Buck always stops with the manager. The club might be inherently flawed, but the product on the pitch is a direct consquence of the manager's setup.

Agreed. There is no excuse for the amount of points we threw away against relegation/bottom half sides
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Danny
post May 30 2023, 01:58 PM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ May 29 2023, 03:10 PM) *
Please do. Because I never think I said we were sh!t and worse than teams like Juve or Inter at the time. We had top top players in that squad. Sure some were in their sunset years but they were still difference makers.


You're being revisionist mate. This is not what you said 12 years ago. It stuck with me.

QUOTE
Ibra alone during that time used to practically guarantee the team he was with the title.

If you can show me a post where I said we were sh!t and fluked it please do.


You might not have used those exact words, but you absolutely discredited the win and stated it was BECAUSE Juve and Inter were so horrible, not because we were so good. And that's what I mean by a fluke - which is what we did last season.

QUOTE
I'll always say we won it in spite of Allegri though. Some of the most horrific football I've witnessed as a Milan fan came under his tutelage. Don't get me started on using Urby as an AM and other WTF decisions he made during his time.

And also, yes, great players make great teams. But truly great coaches turn those bunch of great players intoa machine that churns out wins. Guardiola has a nearly billion pound team under his hands, but he's the mind behind how they play and why they're so successful imo


I agree. You can have all the great players but you need the great manager too.

QUOTE
Never called you a liar though...

Just can't remember ever saying that about our 2011 team


http://www.milanfan.com/forums/index.php?a...&pid=317858

One simple example where Juve apparently weren't that good and if we didn't win the title you'd blame Allegri...

And here's one where you slate Inter:

http://www.milanfan.com/forums/index.php?a...&pid=318008

And one where you say we've a good squad but you discredit Juve if they win it:

http://www.milanfan.com/forums/index.php?a...&pid=319450

QUOTE
Agreed. There is no excuse for the amount of points we threw away against relegation/bottom half sides


Why he didn't stick with his best defence, injury aside, I just do not know. And we desperately need a good RB.
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post Jun 3 2023, 12:49 PM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ May 29 2023, 03:10 PM) *
I agree there.

Actually I would assign ownership with the biggest blame. Maldini and Massara had clear plans for last summer. All of which where thwarted by the needlessly long negotiations for their own contracts, which should have been handled before the summer window even started and a shoe string budget set by the new ownership

Botman and Sanches would have been improvements and stepping stones for what was a good team that won the league but still needed work. Instead we ended up with panic buys and a major mistake in CDK


Botman, yes. Would have been a superb addition.

With Sanches we dodged a bullet. As expected his season's been full of injuries. You could argue we'd still have been better off with him than without him, but I'd prefer staying away from such injury prone players.

We'll see who we're going to add in midfield this summer. With Bennacer out until December, we need at least two new additions.

Also, with Kamada coming in and Asensio leaving Madrid, there's talk that Real want Brahim back. But he wants to stay with us.

Honestly, considering he has a 22 million buy-in clause, I'd rather spend those money elsewhere, such as for:

Messaggero: Lazio resigned to losing Milinkovic-Savic as Milan eye 30m deal
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han2503
post Jun 4 2023, 08:22 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ May 30 2023, 01:58 PM) *
You're being revisionist mate. This is not what you said 12 years ago. It stuck with me.



You might not have used those exact words, but you absolutely discredited the win and stated it was BECAUSE Juve and Inter were so horrible, not because we were so good. And that's what I mean by a fluke - which is what we did last season.



I agree. You can have all the great players but you need the great manager too.



http://www.milanfan.com/forums/index.php?a...&pid=317858

One simple example where Juve apparently weren't that good and if we didn't win the title you'd blame Allegri...

And here's one where you slate Inter:

http://www.milanfan.com/forums/index.php?a...&pid=318008

And one where you say we've a good squad but you discredit Juve if they win it:

http://www.milanfan.com/forums/index.php?a...&pid=319450



Why he didn't stick with his best defence, injury aside, I just do not know. And we desperately need a good RB.

But where did I say there that WE were bad? Inter were in decline back then, and Juve were coming off two 10 place finishes. Most of their players were unkown quantities. It's easier now with hindsight to say they were much better than we thought they were at the time. Barzagli, Bonucci and Chellini were all sub-par players before Conte got his hands on them

Bonucci was rated as a young player at Bari but everyone thought Ranocchia was the more talented of the 2. While Chiellini was pretty average and a utility player moving from LB to CB in his younger years.

Conte as a manager was also an unkown quantity.

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 3 2023, 12:49 PM) *
Botman, yes. Would have been a superb addition.

With Sanches we dodged a bullet. As expected his season's been full of injuries. You could argue we'd still have been better off with him than without him, but I'd prefer staying away from such injury prone players.

We'll see who we're going to add in midfield this summer. With Bennacer out until December, we need at least two new additions.

Also, with Kamada coming in and Asensio leaving Madrid, there's talk that Real want Brahim back. But he wants to stay with us.

Honestly, considering he has a 22 million buy-in clause, I'd rather spend those money elsewhere, such as for:

Messaggero: Lazio resigned to losing Milinkovic-Savic as Milan eye 30m deal

SMS would be the dream for our midfield. He can play the hybrid role better than anyone I can think of.

Let's see. They're saying the budget could be 50m, which once again, is a huge problem, and pretty shameful from the owners considering we came off a season where we got to the CL semis and have secured CL again for next season

How are Paolo and Massara supposed to improve this team wtih a budget that a mid-table side would have?

Elliot really screwed us over with RedBird, especially when a firm like Investcorp wanted in
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han2503
post Jun 4 2023, 08:23 PM
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At this point I think Pioli is starting Messias to make a point.

Why is he playing over Alexis? He's Serie B level FFS!
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CrazyMilanFan
post Jun 5 2023, 08:40 AM
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Ibra retires from football..
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