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acid911
post Jun 25 2014, 01:31 AM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 25 2014, 01:35 AM) *
Very clear that there was no elbowing going on from Chiellini, he just held out his hand slightly when he felt Suarez running into him. Suarez did that completely unprovoked and he needs to be banned from professional game with the NT for a long while.

Maybe there was provocation from Chiellini during the match, prior to this incident. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) I'd label both these players in the same category that Materazzi heads up, which is to say both are dirty scums. Suarez is talented, unlike the two Italian hacks above, but that does not excuse his behavior. Nothing does.

Just say that in a game of football things happen during the course, not a window that the camera catches. Neymar was provoked and hurt in the last game by that Cameroonian fruitcake. Throughout.

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 25 2014, 01:35 AM) *
The fact that that's not the first time he did that makes it even worse, it's obvious he hasn't learnt anything

True. I'm afraid he will not. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif) At least, if he goes to Barcelona, then he can try and make life miserable for another miserable excuse of a human being, Pepe. I'd pay good money to see that.

QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 25 2014, 01:35 AM) *
Also the fact that the game was still at 0-0 when this happens makes the fact that he was allowed to stay on the field even worse

Well, no one can call it, I am afraid. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) Football changes in seconds, it's a game of inches. The fact that it was stilled tied up a 0-0 does not mean that it would ended at this. The only certainty was that Italy had not scored up until that point in time, in a game that they should have to be at ease. Maybe even twice.

Still, this was, for me, the most heartbreaking group in the tournament, and it lived up to expectations. Italy lost it in the previous match, when they knew the type of game Costa Rica played, and still failed to assert their dominance. For me all three teams, Italy, England, Uruguay are same, either two would have been okay.

At least with the Italians I had a reasonable assurance that they'd fix up the Germans real good where it mattered. Now, I can just hope that the Dutch do the job. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Or someone slays them in the quarters, or before that, even.
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Danny
post Jun 25 2014, 01:39 AM
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QUOTE (milanbuf88 @ Jun 25 2014, 12:28 AM) *
You presented zero evidence. The existence of a psychological phenomenon is in no way proof of it being the cause in this specific case. We both know the same small bit of evidence in this case: Suarez bit an opposing player for the third time in his professional career. Without more evidence I think the conclusion that he's a dirty violent player is far more plausible.


So I provide a possible theory based on proven research, and you think your conclusion based on none is more viable?

Fair dues.
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Danny
post Jun 25 2014, 01:44 AM
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QUOTE (acid911 @ Jun 25 2014, 12:31 AM) *
Maybe there was provocation from Chiellini during the match, prior to this incident. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) I'd label both these players in the same category that Materazzi heads up, which is to say both are dirty scums. Suarez is talented, unlike the two Italian hacks above, but that does not excuse his behavior. Nothing does.


Indeed, and I would like to know why on earth he chooses to bite rather than a sneaky foul, or a snidey kick. Or maybe, as I suggest, this is some bizarre cognitive behavioural defect he appears not to be in control of.

I don't know if I'd go as far as scum, because this is basically his big flaw. He's a decent guy outwith this utterly inexplicable oddity.

I don't know many players who I would truly call scum...maybe Totti, or Barton. Guys who, on the pitch, have engaged in some absolutely abhorrent behaviour. But are they downright bad people? No, probably not.
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acid911
post Jun 25 2014, 02:14 AM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 25 2014, 06:44 AM) *
Indeed, and I would like to know why on earth he chooses to bite rather than a sneaky foul, or a snidey kick. Or maybe, as I suggest, this is some bizarre cognitive behavioural defect he appears not to be in control of.

Agreed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It's that, or this is something he has grown up on. I've seen the odd kid that bites in self defense, when playing with other three, four, or five, year olds. Maybe it is this reactionary trait that he has carried onto adult life. Behavioral defect is the correct way to put it, but someone in his stature should not be doing it.

I'm not into violence, abhor it, but if I were, I'd much prefer doing sneaky foul or landing a snidey kick.

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 25 2014, 06:44 AM) *
I don't know if I'd go as far as scum, because this is basically his big flaw. He's a decent guy outwith this utterly inexplicable oddity.

Yeah, well sadly, I only have three baskets, dirty scums, regular schmoes and class acts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Black, gray and white. Only a few guys, football players, in this case, end up as true gentlemen for me, all others are placed in the first two baskets. Scum might be a hard word in this case, I say, but Suarez is no saint.

QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 25 2014, 06:44 AM) *
I don't know many players who I would truly call scum...maybe Totti, or Barton. Guys who, on the pitch, have engaged in some absolutely abhorrent behaviour. But are they downright bad people? No, probably not.

This. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) They are not outright bad people, and I wouldn't mind grabbing a drink with them if it came to it. Knowing full well their actions on the pitch and malicious acts. Suarez probably is in this group. And I rate his skills as a player, he plays for the NT I rather like. But as I mentioned above, he goes dirty red every now and again.

There are, however, some absolute lowlifes playing today that I don't even want to read their name. Animals. More than a few play for Real Madrid, many in Barcelona. Cheats, scums and scoundrels. Some may even be good chaps when not in uniform, but others (like Pepe, Mascherano) I absolutely dislike.
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milanbuf88
post Jun 25 2014, 03:23 AM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 24 2014, 09:39 PM) *
So I provide a possible theory based on proven research, and you think your conclusion based on none is more viable?

Fair dues.


Simple probability. Whatever man. If you'd like to believe he bites people compulsively against his own will then be my guest. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
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kurtsimonw
post Jun 25 2014, 03:52 AM
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Not even the first time he's gone after Chiellini.

(IMG:https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bq7nWByCQAEvKZE.jpg)
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arivanjj
post Jun 25 2014, 08:45 AM
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the scum needs to be banned. no questions asked.
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dst
post Jun 25 2014, 09:12 AM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 25 2014, 02:52 AM) *
PS: ironic I provide actual evidence and diagnostic possibilities which you dismiss as 'flimsy' while you describe a husband and father with no convictions as a violent person with a lack of self control. If mine is flimsy yours is plain shallow.

I'm not disagreeing nor agreeing with you overall, I really don't care what Suarez is and would simply like to see him banned for the rest of the tournament. Only, what does the fact that he's a husband and a father have to do with anything? Surely, not every violent person is unmarried and has no children.
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han2503
post Jun 25 2014, 10:53 AM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Jun 25 2014, 01:27 AM) *
No I didn't, I mentioned proven behaviouristic cause and effect rationale as used by behaviourists.


You're apparently 'assuming' too then.

If I am, so are you.

Like I say, I shall bow out here.

I think it's best if we both do as it will go nowhere. I just think that trying to pin Suarez's behaviour on some mental issue is trying to excuse him, he doesn't do it compulsively in each game when things aren't going his way though, he seems to pick and choose his moments quite cognitively. Uruguay weren't doing anything at that point in the game. The result at 0-0 meant they were going out, there was motive for him to do what he did.

QUOTE (milanbuf88 @ Jun 25 2014, 01:28 AM) *
You presented zero evidence. The existence of a psychological phenomenon is in no way proof of it being the cause in this specific case. We both know the same small bit of evidence in this case: Suarez bit an opposing player for the third time in his professional career. Without more evidence I think the conclusion that he's a dirty violent player is far more plausible.

Agreed

QUOTE (acid911 @ Jun 25 2014, 01:31 AM) *
Maybe there was provocation from Chiellini during the match, prior to this incident. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) I'd label both these players in the same category that Materazzi heads up, which is to say both are dirty scums. Suarez is talented, unlike the two Italian hacks above, but that does not excuse his behavior. Nothing does.

Just say that in a game of football things happen during the course, not a window that the camera catches. Neymar was provoked and hurt in the last game by that Cameroonian fruitcake. Throughout.


True. I'm afraid he will not. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif) At least, if he goes to Barcelona, then he can try and make life miserable for another miserable excuse of a human being, Pepe. I'd pay good money to see that.


Well, no one can call it, I am afraid. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) Football changes in seconds, it's a game of inches. The fact that it was stilled tied up a 0-0 does not mean that it would ended at this. The only certainty was that Italy had not scored up until that point in time, in a game that they should have to be at ease. Maybe even twice.

Still, this was, for me, the most heartbreaking group in the tournament, and it lived up to expectations. Italy lost it in the previous match, when they knew the type of game Costa Rica played, and still failed to assert their dominance. For me all three teams, Italy, England, Uruguay are same, either two would have been okay.

At least with the Italians I had a reasonable assurance that they'd fix up the Germans real good where it mattered. Now, I can just hope that the Dutch do the job. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) Or someone slays them in the quarters, or before that, even.

I'm sorry acid, but Chiellini could have gotten out a picture of Suarez's mother and p!ssed on it for all I care, that does not warrant Suarez taking a chunk out of Chiellini. Footballers taunt and try to get under each other's skin throughout the entire game. It's what they do. There is no excusing what Suarez did, no mater what provocational tactics Chiellini used. It's like saying Zidane is excused for head butting Materazzi because he said something foul to provoke him.

As for the game, yes, a game of football is decided on moments, that's why that particular incident was so pivotal in the game, first Italy have Marchisio wrongfully sent off, that swung the game in Uruguay's favour when before hand Italy were very much in control of it. Then in the final few minutes Suarez should have been sent off but he stays on, that swung the game even more in their favour as even with a man advantage they still hadn't created any chances bar that Suarez shot. The entire game was decided on moments by the referee, simple as that

Anyway, Fifa have opened a probe, so I guess that's his and Uruguay's World Cup finished as well
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Fillipo Simone
post Jun 25 2014, 11:09 AM
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Naah, I remain by my initial comment. It was a mess. There was also a clear penalty for Uruguay not given in the first half.
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Fillipo Simone
post Jun 25 2014, 11:16 AM
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Just now realized: Costa Rica will get Greece. A horror last 16 match.
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X-Offender
post Jun 25 2014, 11:18 AM
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Suarez has anger management issues, he's said so himself. In such heated moments sometimes one does not think of the consequences but acts on instinct. That's why as soon as he realized what he'd done, he tried to act as if Chiellini had elbowed him. He obviously has to be banned for the rest of the tournament for sure.

-

Lugano: "Chiellini's bite marks are old scars, no-one saw any biting"

Link

He really said that! What a tool. He should be banned along with Suarez. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)
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X-Offender
post Jun 25 2014, 11:25 AM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jun 25 2014, 11:16 AM) *
Just now realized: Costa Rica will get Greece. A horror last 16 match.


Very underwhelming indeed.
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Danny
post Jun 25 2014, 11:28 AM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ Jun 25 2014, 09:53 AM) *
I'm sorry acid, but Chiellini could have gotten out a picture of Suarez's mother and p!ssed on it for all I care, that does not warrant Suarez taking a chunk out of Chiellini.


Actually it would, and if you don't value your mother enough to defend any attack against her then...I'll stop before I say something I regret here.
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arivanjj
post Jun 25 2014, 12:08 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jun 25 2014, 09:25 PM) *
Very underwhelming indeed.

if Holland don't progress on round of 16. you'll have one of Mexico, Costa Rica or Greece in the semis! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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