[han2503]

SkySport says he'll play, whilst Mediaset says he won't. I guess we'll just have to wait and see for ourselves.

Not good, but we still have Cassano on the bench, not the same but still we won't really suffer a drop in quality imo.

If he's not healthy enough to play then I'd rather not risk him when we have someone like Cassano on the bench

Btw, x-off what is that link to the probably line-ups on mediaset sport?

[X-Offender]

Btw, x-off what is that link to the probably line-ups on mediaset sport?

Click

[Fillipo Simone]

I can't agree that Cassano would provide even scarcely the same as Pato would. With a exhausted Ibra and a 'never know' Robinho, Pato provided the only garantee for a energetic forward. Without him we won't have the same finish option and the speed.

[han2503]

Click

Thanks. But why are we still playing with the 3 DMs and Boateng behind the strikers?? If Pato is fit he simply cannot be left out!

I can't agree that Cassano would provide even scarcely the same as Pato would. With a exhausted Ibra and a 'never know' Robinho, Pato provided the only garantee for a energetic forward. Without him we won't have the same finish option and the speed.

Obviously they bring very different qualities to the table, what Pato brings in terms of finishing and speed Cassano offers in vision and dribbling.

But in terms of quality it's not going to drop, plus I still believe tat Cassano and Ibra work far better then Pato and Ibra. I'm not saying that Pato should not start, but if there is a chance that he'll miss the game then we still have a top class forward line with Cassano instead.

EDIT: I've now refreshed the link you posted x-off and they have Pato starting and Flamini on the bench

Anyways looking at our bench, if things are not going well we really have some great aces to throw in

Amelia, Oddo, Yepes, Emanuelson, Seedorf, Flamini, Cassano

[CHU-LIP]

I like the line-up from X-Offender's link. But maybe start with Cassano instead of Pato since he has a fever? There's always a second half where he can be brought in. Cassano, Robinho and Ibrahimovic have showed to be a very good attack. Though, if the risk in starting Pato is very little, then it's okay and I'm fully happy with the line-up.

Anyways looking at our bench, if things are not going well we really have some great aces to throw in

Amelia, Oddo, Yepes, Emanuelson, Seedorf, Flamini, Cassano

I count one: Cassano... who more are great aces? Okay, I'm very happy with Yepes' preformances but not sure to call him a great ace also.

This post has been edited by CHU-LIP: Mar 5 2011, 03:29 PM

[acid911]

I count one: Cassano... who more are great aces? Okay, I'm very happy with Yepes' preformances but not sure to call him a great ace also.

True. What's gotten into you, Han?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

A 500-year-old turtles, Oddo who deals in 2s (two assists, two brain dead moments a match, crosses that swing two ways before/if reaching the players, etc), a 35-year old defender, a midfielder with the mental strength of a 5-year old, a number-2 keeper who should have been number-3, and someone that has 30 characters for his full name (Urby Vitorrio Diego Emanuelson) are hardly awe inspiring I would say. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Only Cassano is our wild/trump card, the rest are just filling in. Still, we've had it a lot worse a few years back.

[X-Offender]

a midfielder with the mental strength of a 5-year old

Don't you dare say anything bad about Matteo! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/realmad.gif)

This post has been edited by X-Offender: Mar 5 2011, 04:04 PM

[Fillipo Simone]

I cannot belive what I'm reading! Are we now bashing every player Milan has? I mean sure, yes, they are all humans, so yes, probably they have soft spots or bad sides. But honestly, is this neccesary? I mean, that way you could argue that whole teams in the Serie A and beyond are crap.

What han meant to say, I belive, is we have a lot of utility players there. We have Seedorf who still can do something and help out if neccesary, Oddo can lock-up the right side if needed, we have Flamini who can enter and provide some freshness, stability and strenght for the final 20-15 minutes if we take the lead, we have Emanuelson who can pracitally do the same but also provied more offensive passes and speed and we have Cassano. So I really wouldn't laugh at them.

[CHU-LIP]

a midfielder with the mental strength of a 5-year old

+1

Not so long ago I was getting more faithful about him, but he keeps showing that mentally he is very meh.

[han2503]

I count one: Cassano... who more are great aces? Okay, I'm very happy with Yepes' preformances but not sure to call him a great ace also.

Cassano, Seedorf and Flamini can all come in and change the match. Seedorf is not good enough to start but coming off the bench he's still very useful. I really cannot stand hearing you complain about Seedorf since just a few months ago you were so hell bent on him starting as long as Ronaldinho didn't get to see the pitch. And he wasn't doing anything special then either so it's not really a good agument to say that he cr@p now while just a few months ago he wasn't (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

You probably view Merkel as someone who can change the match around for us if we need it... Just because he's in the age group that you deem acceptable

While Yepes, Amelia, Oddo and Urby can also be very useful if we need to change setup or there is an injury without suffering a severe drop in quality

I cannot belive what I'm reading! Are we now bashing every player Milan has? I mean sure, yes, they are all humans, so yes, probably they have soft spots or bad sides. But honestly, is this neccesary? I mean, that way you could argue that whole teams in the Serie A and beyond are crap.

What han meant to say, I belive, is we have a lot of utility players there. We have Seedorf who still can do something and help out if neccesary, Oddo can lock-up the right side if needed, we have Flamini who can enter and provide some freshness, stability and strenght for the final 20-15 minutes if we take the lead, we have Emanuelson who can pracitally do the same but also provied more offensive passes and speed and we have Cassano. So I really wouldn't laugh at them.

Thanks, nice to see someone sensible on here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

+1

Not so long ago I was getting more faithful about him, but he keeps showing that mentally he is very meh.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) You talk about mentality? You defend Rino or someone like Abate who have both left this team high and dry this season because they're too obsessed with fighting it out then playing, yet Flamini is mentally meh? What has he done to suggest this? Having a bad game against Spurs? Sorry but everyone fell in that group, he was one of our best players against Napoli, he always gives his all, don't see how that makes him weak

[CHU-LIP]

To han:

I agreed about Cassano. Seedorf is capable of doing good things like giving a good pass (a potential assist), or scoring a very rare goal. But besides that, even in a game where he gives an assist, he still played awful (most of) that game. He keeps losing possession which is a very bad thing for a midfielder. This season Seedorf is getting more awful with the day. Earlier this season he was not as bad as nowadays. I believe Seedorf has become finished this season. When we still had Ronaldinho I preferred Seedorf over him, because Ronaldinho was a bad player then for us also. While Seedorf back then was still capable of playing good games. But after Ronaldinho's departure Seedorf plays every game bad, even the ones he gave assists. (Dinho's preformances made Seedorf look good.)

And it's not about age. Yepes I rate as a good central defender, for example. I'm very delighted with him. So I don't prefer Merkel over Seedorf because of age, but Merkel plays better than Seedorf this season, and Merkel is the one who gets better with the day (and needs to play to become a very good midfielder - the potential is there) while Seedorf only will get worse. I have more faith in Merkel, and see several reasons why he should play over Seedorf. In my opinion you should not play old players over prospects when they are not obvious better, and when it comes to Seedorf and Merkel, Seedorf is actually worse than Merkel. Think long-term, but in case playing Merkel is even short-term smarter than playing Seedorf.

Flamini is an useful midfielder, I agree there. Just don't think he's a great ace. About the mental aspect. I think you are being very unfair and wrong when it comes to Abate and Gattuso, or you just misunderstood. Okay, all three are really giving their best on the field, so when it comes to that all are great mentally. But what I meant with Flamini is that he makes a lot of unnecessary flaws what has to do with concentration (a mentally aspect). That with Gattuso, that was one game, an accident. That's an exception, normally he isn't like that. So therefore you are being very unfair with him. Though not long ago I thought Flamini did well this season, he is doing not so well anymore. My opinion is not based on the Spurs game. I didn't think he played bad that game actually.

This post has been edited by CHU-LIP: Mar 5 2011, 04:48 PM

[han2503]

To han:

I agreed about Cassano. Seedorf is capable of doing good things like giving a good pass (a potential assist), or scoring a very rare goal. But besides that, even in a game where he gives an assist, he still played awful (most of) that game. He keeps losing possession which is a very bad thing for a midfielder. This season Seedorf is getting more awful with the day. Earlier this season he was not as bad as nowadays. I believe Seedorf has become finished this season. When we still had Ronaldinho I preferred Seedorf over him, because Ronaldinho was a bad player then for us also. While Seedorf back then was still capable of playing good games. But after Ronaldinho's departure Seedorf plays every game bad, even the ones he gave assists. (Dinho's preformances made Seedorf look good.)

Seedorf was like so horrible against Spurs that it pained me, but to say that he's terrible now as opposed to just a few short months ago is not a valid argument, he had terrible games just a few short months ago as well, he had terrible games when he was still in his 20s that is Seedorf, always has been. what you're saying about Ronaldinho making Seedorf look good is a very weak argument as to why you wanted Seedorf playing at all costs when Ronaldinho could still potentially play, you just didn't want Dinho anywhere near the pitch so you argued avidly giving multiple reasons might I add, as to why Seedorf should be starting ahead of him, even though in reality the difference between the 2 has always been marginal at best and not the vast ocean you speak of.

And it's not about age. Yepes I rate as a good central defender, for example. I'm very delighted with him. So I don't prefer Merkel over Seedorf because of age, but Merkel plays better than Seedorf this season, and Merkel is the one who gets better with the day (and needs to play to become a very good midfielder - the potential is there) while Seedorf only will get worse. I have more faith in Merkel, and see several reasons why he should play over Seedorf. In my opinion you should not play old players over prospects when they are not obvious better, and when it comes to Seedorf and Merkel, Seedorf is actually worse than Merkel. Think long-term, but in case playing Merkel is even short-term smarter than playing Seedorf.

I've seen Merkel lose the ball practically in our own box, as well as the other multiple times he loses it in a given game, sure he's a prospect while Seedorf is at his twilight, but you have to assess a game when choosing, and Merkel is still not good enough for the big games, sure Seedorf let us down against Spurs but he could have just as eaily turned it on and had a blinder, the usual Seedorf. I think you're beeing just as unfair to Seedorf as you say I'm being to Abate and Rino. You've always wanted the young player on ahead of he experienced one, personally I don't care either way, because I know for a fact that Merkel won't be a Milan player in the future, just like all the others before him, he's nothing special, and risking games for the sake of helping a player develop which will not even benefit Milan in the long term is useless to me.

And I wouldn't go as far as saying Merkel is better then Seedorf, Merkel is greener then green at this point in time, he's so hesitant with everything he does, he turns into a liability when opposing teams get physical, at leat with Seedorf you know no one will be trying to push him around the way Merkel regularly does.

Flamini is an useful midfielder, I agree there. Just don't think he's a great ace. About the mental aspect. I think you are being very unfair and wrong when it comes to Abate and Gattuso, or you just misunderstood. Okay, all three are really giving their best on the field, so when it comes to that all are great mentally. But what I meant with Flamini is that he makes a lot of unnecessary flaws what has to do with concentration (a mentally aspect). That with Gattuso, that was one game, an accident. That's an exception, normally he isn't like that. So therefore you are being very unfair with him. Though not long ago I thought Flamini did well this season, he is doing not so well anymore. My opinion is not based on the Spurs game. I didn't think he played bad that game actually.

Well you said mentally, Flamini's playing flaws really don't have anything to do with that, that is why I was so quick to point out Rino and Abate's mental flaws as well as a counter point. Sure Flamini usually lunges in without thinking, but again, the same could be said for Rino, Ambro MvB, Boateng, etc. We've all seens them commit terrible fouls over the years, Flamini still has that EPL mentality of running at full speed all the time so his tackled tend to look worse then they are. Still, aside from the tackling all the other qualities he offers on the pitch cannot be overlooked, he gives us speed, and helps the midfield push up, something we lack a lot. He has flaws, but every player does, but I still wouldn't go as far as saying that he's disappointing or making me lose faith in him because of such an issue.

Compared to last season and the number of cards he's been shown, I would say that he's made a vast improvement this season.

[acid911]

Don't you dare say anything bad about Matteo!

I was his big fan, but seriously the guy needs to tone down his aggression a bit, before it costs the team at the wrong time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Show of passion and doing a little dirty work is needed, but I'd actually put Van Bommel ahead of Matteo at this moment (just by a nudge), because of his wily nature and no-fuss and usually no-card tackling.

Still I am a fan of the guy, and frankly he has had it tough with injuries and not having a definite starting place even after all his time here, so I hope he can get is act together (hard tackles and radar-less shooting). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) Only this way can he cement his place and play the next few seasons.

You never know when a bad tackle from a DM can result in a red, with the team being down to 10 men in say, a derby match? 0-4 scores become an easier reality then. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Besides, no tackle is worth career-threatening injuries top opposing players, remember what happened to Ribery in the CL match and how FIFA knocked him over?

I cannot belive what I'm reading! Are we now bashing every player Milan has? I mean sure, yes, they are all humans, so yes, probably they have soft spots or bad sides. But honestly, is this neccesary? I mean, that way you could argue that whole teams in the Serie A and beyond are crap.

Keep your shirt on, Fillipo, I was only kidding. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) And besides, we are a club, not the Spanish or English NT that has Febregases, Torreses and Lampards warming the benches ready to come on. Practically all players have good/bad points when it comes to performances, but bench and reserve strength is absolutely necessary for a club that is challenging for the title, CL and even the Coppa.

In no way would it be right to underestimate these players, who step up when the need arises. Look at Janku, did not play for months and came on quite well in the last match.

What han meant to say, I belive, is we have a lot of utility players there. We have Seedorf who still can do something and help out if neccesary, Oddo can lock-up the right side if needed, we have Flamini who can enter and provide some freshness, stability and strenght for the final 20-15 minutes if we take the lead, we have Emanuelson who can pracitally do the same but also provied more offensive passes and speed and we have Cassano. So I really wouldn't laugh at them.

True, but my point was that they are utility players (beside Cassano) and not really aces who can change the outcome of a match, even a Serie A match, from the bench. City has a bench that can do that, United, even inter. Not us, at least not now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif) Maybe when Inzaghi, Ambrosini, and Zambrotta are back, but until then we are thin back there. Hopefully next year, we get a player or two back from loans and co-ownerships, and sign up one or two decent players who can take it up from a bench at Milan.

Not so long ago I was getting more faithful about him, but he keeps showing that mentally he is very meh.

I still have faith, the guy turns in good performances whenever called upon. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) A touch-player like him needs to play regularly to build up his confidence. I just think he needs a little coaching talk and, and who knows maybe spending some time with Bommel will result him in learning the tricks in the book.

Cassano, Seedorf and Flamini can all come in and change the match. Seedorf is not good enough to start but coming off the bench he's still very useful. I really cannot stand hearing you complain about Seedorf since just a few months ago you were so hell bent on him starting as long as Ronaldinho didn't get to see the pitch. And he wasn't doing anything special then either so it's not really a good agument to say that he cr@p now while just a few months ago he wasn't

Not really. Seedorf was good in the first few matches of the season, but has gone further downhill since. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) That was when he got the starting spot ahead of R80, and was playing at his 2008-10 level. Now, I would not say he is very useful coming off the bench, in fact far from it. I think the player and management know that this is the end of the road, so maybe the drive is not there anymore, who knows. The guy has done and won everything there is, and then some. Fact is that he is a good player to have in case of an injury to our main midfielders. That is the reason he is not coming off the bench too these past few matches. Allegri preferred him, and I almost thought that we would renew with him again, but now I am not too sure. Maybe we will, but it's 60-40 against the Dutchman.

Besides, it's not about being crap, and vice versa. It's not always black and white, particularly in something like football. As of right now, based on what I have seen, Seedorf is a good player to have in the squad, and step in when any player gets injured, plus a few bench appearances here and there. Few attacking players play on at or after the age of 35. Few. All the talent and experience in the world is there, but I have very limited reasons to believe Seedorf will come off the bench and make a killer assist to win us the match.

You probably view Merkel as someone who can change the match around for us if we need it... Just because he's in the age group that you deem acceptable

Not really again. Merkel, Strasser, anyone else who can step in and take the reins in a season or two. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) There should always be transitional player/youth coming up the ranks. Not just 18 years old ones, who I agree are still too soft for big matches, but ideally young legs with some experience.

While Yepes, Amelia, Oddo and Urby can also be very useful if we need to change setup or there is an injury without suffering a severe drop in quality

That's the keyword, without major drop in quality. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) But are they aces, can we count on them to change the match on its heads when things are totally down? Can any of them pull of stuff at the level of Inzaghi when he showed the mirror to Madrid (before getting injured, unfortunately). Cassano only, the rest are containing players, and important yes, but I stand by the notion that our first XI is second to none, but bench is not as strong as it was a few years back. And hopefully this is something that will change next, in the coming couple of seasons.

You talk about mentality? You defend Rino or someone like Abate who have both left this team high and dry this season because they're too obsessed with fighting it out then playing, yet Flamini is mentally meh? What has he done to suggest this? Having a bad game against Spurs? Sorry but everyone fell in that group, he was one of our best players against Napoli, he always gives his all, don't see how that makes him weak

I thought his showing against Spurs was no way near bad, it was a decent performance (bar the bad two-footed tackle). And frankly, I'd start him and KPB for all the remaining matches of the season with either of Ambro and Gattuso, Pirlo up ahead and then the attackers. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif) And a 3-man defense that stays back - Nesta, Silva and Abate, etc.

[X-Offender]

tl:dr

Pato and Oddo have the fever and are returning to Milan. No Juventus for them.

This post has been edited by X-Offender: Mar 5 2011, 05:51 PM

[acid911]

Pato and Oddo have the fever and are returning to Milan. No Juventus for them.

Skittles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Fingers crossed they recover before London, I am sure they will. Good move by the coach to not risk them. The rest of the guys should be able to step up.