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Posted by: han2503 Jan 9 2015, 10:21 AM

Posted by: Danny Jan 9 2015, 02:53 PM

Cerci won't start this one.

Abate will, Rami will partner Alex and De Jong comes in for Essien. That aside, same XI as v Sassuolo.

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 9 2015, 04:53 PM

Diego Lopez; Abate, Rami, Alex, Armero; Muntari, De Jong, Montolivo; Bonaventura, Menez, El Shaarawy

Great, the last thing we needed right now was Muntari. The picture is complete.

Posted by: Danny Jan 10 2015, 12:37 PM

Mexes in for Alex now. And both SES & MDS may be benched. Armero looking like starting.

Pippo's mismanagement of the defence is actually hysterical. Only ONE match has seen the same back four as the previous, and that was the one v Palermo at San Siro where Alex went off injured on two minutes.

So, literally, we haven't started the same defence twice this entire season. Atleti's success was built around a consistent back four. Same with Chelsea. We can't put the same defence out even ONCE?!

I'm lost for words by this.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Jan 10 2015, 12:53 PM

-------------Diego Lopez
---Abate - Rami - Mexes - Armero ---
-------Poli - De Jong - Montolivo
-----Niang - Menez - Bonaventura

According to GdS

Posted by: Danny Jan 10 2015, 01:32 PM

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 10 2015, 01:58 PM

Posted by: Danny Jan 10 2015, 02:21 PM

Don't get me wrong, changes after the last match are acceptable, but under this regime they're every match rather than necessary.

I also get the nagging, and rather disappointing feeling, that unless he's injured, Alex is being made the scapegoat for the terrible defensive display, rather than the ghastly fullbacks who were the real sinners in that one.

I also don't totally object to Niang starting, but it all just feels so random, unstructured, and conceived by a man who really is making this sh*t up as he goes along.

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 04:56 PM

Where did Niang suddenly come from?? Are we that desperate?

And why bring in Cerci if you're not going to use him?

Bonaventura in the attacking trio as a f@cking winger just screams coward. It's what Allegri used to do with Boateng and Urby

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 10 2015, 05:23 PM

+1

Posted by: Danny Jan 10 2015, 08:07 PM

Official:

Lopez, MDS, Mexes, Rami, Armero, De Jong, Monto, Muntari, Niang, Menez, Bona.

I refer you all to the above image.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Jan 10 2015, 08:08 PM

Official line up: Diego Lopez; De Sciglio, Mexes, Rami, Armero; Montolivo, De Jong, Muntari; Niang, Menez, Bonaventura.

Bench: Abbiati, Agazzi, Alex, Abate, Zaccardo, Zapata, Poli, Essien, Saponara, Cerci, El Shaarawy, Pazzini

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 08:44 PM

That's like a mesh up he dreamed up of while on a trip

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 08:46 PM

We all know this line-up will mean we'll be wasting all 3 subs trying to fix this mess Pippo started with, just a matter of how long it will take him to realise and make the subs

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 08:48 PM

Penalty! Nice one Menez...

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 08:49 PM

MENEZ!!!

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 08:49 PM

Now let's see how long it takes us to fall asleep...

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 10 2015, 08:52 PM

Was it a penalty? I missed it.

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 08:55 PM

Soft, but technically speaking yes, since Menez's shirt was pulled (he dived as soon as he felt it)

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 08:56 PM

Twice already Lopez saving our @ss now.

We have no midfield

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 10 2015, 09:12 PM

We're so bad...

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 09:15 PM

My God!! What a complete and total mess we are complete shambles

It feels like we're playing with a man less, we're leaving so much space for them

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 09:16 PM

DS...

Why is he playing on the right again since Abate is fit?

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 09:16 PM

How are we not 2 or 3 goals down???

Posted by: milanbuf88 Jan 10 2015, 09:18 PM

We look awful. Such lazy laid back defending. We can't defend like this and expect to win. **** tackle by De Sciglio. Lucky to only get post off the free kick. We should be down a couple goals at this point.

Posted by: milanbuf88 Jan 10 2015, 09:22 PM

Almost a moment of genius from Niang. He looks a bit better today than last year.

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 09:34 PM

Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Again, why did he play DS on the right?? Just absolutely makes no sense!!

I see Abate coming on, looks like he COULD have started

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 10 2015, 09:34 PM

That's what you get for playing DS.

Posted by: milanbuf88 Jan 10 2015, 09:34 PM

Second yellow to De Sciglio. What a stupid tackle. What the hell was he thinking??

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 09:37 PM

Bona is completely MIA on that left side.

He's not a winger! Why are we playing a 4-3-3 without a single pure winger FFS??

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 09:38 PM

HT

We're winning, but I simply cannot understand how that's the case right now. Torino deserve to be 2 or 3 up at the least.

This f@cked up formation Pippo dreamed up will surely bite us in the @ss in the 2nd. Can't see us making it through the 90 like this, we've already ridden our luck one too many times and now with a man down...

Posted by: Danny Jan 10 2015, 09:40 PM

How we are winning this I have no idea. Lopez to thank in particular.

Defence all over the place - sooner Milan fans wake up and realise MDS and Rami are pitifully poor the better - because they were disgusting in that first half.

Mexes, like Alex last week, struggled to organise the shambles around him and it dragged him down like it did Alex. Armero, amazingly, was probably our best defender.

De Jong looked like a player with his heart elsewhere now, and while Niang gave it what he had, his lack of development is striking. Just isn't progressing at all, seems stuck, even if occasionally he shows glimpses. His mentality is better but as a player he just hasn't gone forward.

Bona looked better as it went on, but penalty aside that was Menez at his shitty selfish crappy FIFA self.

Posted by: Danny Jan 10 2015, 09:42 PM

Also Monto just isn't a Regista at all. He also doesn't seem to have the heart for the working side that enforcing in the DM role needs.

What a horrid first half. Pippo, you're an absolute joke of a manager.

Let's rotate EVERY FUCKING MATCH!

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 09:53 PM

At this point I'm finding it hard to blame the players.

It's just a complete and tactical failure in all departments.

We're so disjointed, the midfield is simply not helping the defenders. DS's first was stupid and unnecessary, the second was last ditch because Darmian was clean through with acres of space to run into, and that has been the case all game.

Danny, Monto is not playing as a regista. De Jong is occupying the holding mid position. Monto is being played more like a box-to-box guy atm and it's obviously not working. The midfield was just as disjointed against Sassuolo, I really don't understand what Pippo is trying to do. Before the break we had a more solid and compact shape. Now it's like everything is thrown out of the window, every man for himself, do whatever the hell you like.

The attack is just not working, and it's hasn't worked in quite some time. Menez as a 9 is simply ridiculous. Playing a midfielder as a forward/winger in a 4-3-3 is ridiculous. Suddenly remembering that Niang is part of the squad after not giving him a single minute in the entire season and starting him out of the blue when you have Cerci on the bench, a player you specifically requested is ridiculous!!

The mistakes here are too much to count.

DS on the right is another catastrophic decision that I simply cannot understand. This while you have Abate fit and ready to start available.

Dropping Alex to play Rami... Alex and Mexes could form a seriously strong duo, yet he's rarely ever used them together, just ridiculous!

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 09:53 PM

Muntari now yellowed...

His sliding tackles are epic failures

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 10 2015, 10:02 PM

The players don't care, plain and simple.

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 10:04 PM

Muntari, what a complete and total tool! What did you expect after that performance? Idiot!

Posted by: milanbuf88 Jan 10 2015, 10:06 PM

Muntari being a petulant child on the bech after getting subbed. Maybe he should have used that energy on the pitch.

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 10 2015, 10:07 PM

Piece of sh*t...

Posted by: milanbuf88 Jan 10 2015, 10:07 PM

I'd like to see Cerci in for Menez or maybe Bonnaventura at 65.

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 10:09 PM

Pazzo seems to be warming up. But I agree with you, either Cerci or SES should be brought on. At least they can run at people with the ball if we manage to get it off them. Pazzo will only hold it up and lay it off

Posted by: milanbuf88 Jan 10 2015, 10:10 PM

Exactly. Cerci would be able to play on the counter and give us a chance to pick up a second goal. If we get scored on we are screwed.

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 10:14 PM

At this point I don't know how that hasn't happened yet

Posted by: milanbuf88 Jan 10 2015, 10:18 PM

Me either

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 10:19 PM

Probably one of the worst performances I've seen in a long while. Probably since Allegri's last few months

Posted by: milanbuf88 Jan 10 2015, 10:20 PM

Diego Lopez is why we're up still.

Posted by: milanbuf88 Jan 10 2015, 10:21 PM

Cerci warming up now too.

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 10:22 PM

Just... How??

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 10:25 PM

It's like they're trying to play some twisted form of football Russion Roulette. Trying to test how sh!t they can be without conceding

Posted by: milanbuf88 Jan 10 2015, 10:28 PM

Alex in for Menez. Cowardly substitution.

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 10:28 PM

There it is...

Deserved for them

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 10:29 PM

Everything Pippo has done from the start has been cowardly

Justice almost served today

Posted by: milanbuf88 Jan 10 2015, 10:30 PM

****. What piss poor defending.

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 10:38 PM

Even the most simple of passes seem to elude our players

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 10:42 PM

Pippo should be ashamed.

Not even going to get into the issue of the players, that's pointless. The starting line-up and the resulting performance from it says it all. The subs were even worse.

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 10 2015, 10:43 PM

No words to describe tonight's performance. But I was expecting it after the horror showing of Tuesday. This team has no spirit. It's filled by a bunch of mediocre players and guided by a clueless coach. It's all so goddamn sad...

Posted by: milanbuf88 Jan 10 2015, 10:43 PM

FT 1-1. Pathetic performance. Amateurish managing. If Torino wasn't toothless we'd have lost by 4.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jan 10 2015, 10:45 PM

Yep, embarrassing.

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 10:45 PM

The sad thing is I don't think that any of them (bar the few obvious ones) are mediocre at all. They're all capable of so much better.

Problem is, the man leading them is absolutely clueless and even more cowardly. He's so afraid of losing that he thinks a draw is an acceptable result, and playing for it is enough. The way we played today is not even classified as mid-table type performance, but bottom feeder level performance.

Posted by: Danny Jan 10 2015, 10:55 PM

We've never deserved a point less in my entire life of supporting this once-proud Club.

I actually have no idea where to start so straight onto my ratings, slightly emotionally-charged following that dismal atrocity.

Lopez: 10. I am being slightly generous but this man won us that point more or less single-handedly. I feel sorry for such a good goalkeeper plying his trade for such a bad team.

MDS: 0 Didn't do a useful thing in 45 minutes then got sent off. He is fucking terrible and has been going backwards for 18 months now.

Mexes: 4 Meh. Struggled. Couple of woeful tackles but tried his best to keep things together. Failed. Missed the header for the winner. Along with...

Rami: 1 Up there with Onyewu and Acerbi as the worst defender I've seen at Milan. Accrued cult status for paying a bit of his own wage, and he IS good on the ball, but one worthwhile tackle is all he had to show. He gets the 1 for that tackle.

Armero: 5 Our best defender and he was pretty average at best. But it's the best he's done in our shirt.

De Jong: 3 Heart wasn't there tonight, looked totally distracted and I get the feeling he's moving on.

Monto: 0 Just complete cr*p.

Muntari: -3 His reaction at being subbed should be the last time we ever see him in a Milan top.

Bona: 3 Worked, and had one good move. Otherwise even he struggled tonight.

Menez: 0 Yes, I don't care he won the pen and scored the goal, he's turned back into the old shitey Menez who thinks the sport is all about him. He's broken his X button again.

Niang: 4 At least he had the right attitude and one excellent move where a goal would have been a contender for GOTS.

Subs:

Abate: 6 Our best defender once he came on. Thank you Pippo for benching him.

Poli: 3 Didn't really do much beyond run around. But at least he did so without throwing things at people.

Alex: 4 Couldn't do a lot, but what he did was ok.

Pippo: -1223213131231

I've had enough of his clueless idiocy, his constant rotation, his stubborn refusal to start the same defence, his compete inability to tactically alter anything for the better, and his dumb subs.

It wasn't his fault he was appointed manager, but the longer we go with appointing noobs as boss, the further this Club will decline.

We DO have a decent squad. Hell a decent manager could maybe make a player out of MDS and SES. But we keep appointing dickheads to the manager position and they're stubborn, arrogant, and end up totally blighting their playing legacy. I KNEW he was better in Primavera.

If we don't bring in a real manager soon, we'll end up in relegation form.

(I hope to calm down in the morning)

Posted by: han2503 Jan 10 2015, 11:01 PM

I didn't agree with the majority of your ratings, but I couldn't agree more with the bolded bit

Pippo, like Allegri before him is making us look worse than we really are, his baffling decisions and constant "thinkering" are what's really making us look so utterly terrible.

Posted by: Danny Jan 10 2015, 11:49 PM

You never do tbh they were angry ratings but I stand roughly by them.



Seedorf too was garbage - no one can honestly say he did a good job, not if we go by 'Milan' standards.

Allegri started well, lost his best players and couldn't do eff all with the trash the Club brought in to replace it. But the current squad is much better than the rubbish one Allegri ended up with after 2012 and Pippo is making it look far worse than that one.

But I'm not discussing Allegri with you or X - it never ends well

Posted by: han2503 Jan 11 2015, 12:01 AM

I think some of your ratings are harsh, and some biased, but whatevs, I get it, we all have the ones we like better than others and ones we criticise more than others

At least with Seedorf you could see a clear plan, a clear direction he wanted to take us to. A clear way he wanted his players to play. There was a clear tactical approach.

With Pippo it's back to what we saw under Allegri. Losing players or not for Allegri I always stand by the fact that he made us dire. Ibra and the other top players dragged us to that Scudetto and Allegri managed to lose the second one to Juve even with the best squad in the league. So for me, Allegri is even more dire than the rookies that followed him because he handed over a Scudetto while having a star studded squad at his disposal

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 11 2015, 12:11 AM

Remember this? It dates back to 20 September after the game against Juve. I was told I was overreacting, but tell me now if I wasn't 100% correct about Mr. Pippo.

Posted by: Danny Jan 11 2015, 12:42 AM

If I did the 'I told you so' thing every time I was proven right I'd be the most annoying poster on here

(ok I already am but that's not the point)

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jan 11 2015, 12:45 AM

Oh but they are, they really are. In this horrible mess you can see how good for example Lopez or even Abate are. But then you can see as well how hopelessly bad Muntari is, how hopelessly mediocre Rami and Montolivo are.

What makes you think they're all capable of "such much better"? Do they have some silverware won? Made some impressive result so far? Rami won the league with Lille, Alex with PSV, Chelsea and PSG. Menez has some cups with Roma and of course tons of wins with PSG. But that's about it.

I really think all in all they are very mediocre. Bar a few players that stand out, none of them is able to perform constantly or at least consistently good. None of them made a real progress or shows grit, determination or a positive attitude/mentality.

This game goes mostly on Inzaghi, but again, I'm not gonna just blame him. After three coaches in one and a half year, I'm inclined to say there's pretty much everything wrong with this club. Up from management to the players.


Bravo!

Posted by: Danny Jan 11 2015, 01:01 AM

tbh you make some fair points. Abate looked a class above when he came on, and Lopez was exceptional.

But that said in fits and starts we've seen them all individually playing much better than they showed tonight - Monto had been in superb form until the loss v Sassuolo, Alex had been a collosus every match till that same fixture, and Menez has worked miracles at times.

I think the problem is Milan's decline is echoing that of Serie A - our standards are having to go down, and as such a player like Monto gets elevated in our minds to being as good as Pirlo within the context of current Milan. If real Pirlo played for us, we'd be blown away by how good he was, because we're now so used to much lesser players at the Club.

And Serie A too is far weaker than it once was - Juve were once collosal, late 90s for example. Ourselves, superb late 80s and over the piece between 90-2005. But now all these teams are fundamentally crap by comparison.

Truth is we DO have good players, players who could make us a top 3 team quite comfortably, in this weak Serie A. I even include MDS in this, in theory, if he was to realise the form which made us so excited about him back in the day. Does that come down to his own lack of ability being exposed, or poor management? Maybe both.

But poor management is definitely a factor in a lot of what's going on here.

You CANNOT put it solely on the players when we have not ONCE started two matches in a row under Pippo with the same XI. When he has us too high up V Sassuolo and failing to play offside, and then far too deep tonight. The guy doesn't have a clue. 35% of all our conceded goals came from corners. We just can't defend - but then, we seem to get a good defence for a match or two and guess what, Pisso changes it. Like he does with every part of the team, constantly. NO MATTER WHAT FORM THEY'RE IN.

Play well. Change. Play bad. Change. It's ridiculous and absurd management.

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 11 2015, 01:15 AM

Yes, but this is what we're talking about right now: Pippo's incompetency. I predicted that our season would go down the shitter that night, and four months later, it seems like it's become reality. What this Milan has been reduced to could have been easily deduced from that game alone.

Posted by: Danny Jan 11 2015, 02:18 AM

No one could have predicted that he'd develop a weird fetish hard on for constantly rotating the team though. That's a major cause for this. His compressed tactics that night were your big reason for condemning him, yet similar tactics have managed wins over Udine, Napoli, and a draw in Rome. The big problem I have is his refusal to alter tactics when they're NOT working and of course, his steadfast rotation of everything he can find to rotate.

I get dizzy he rotates that much and quickly.

Posted by: han2503 Jan 11 2015, 10:42 AM

All hail you!

But yes, you were right about him, I was still optimistic and hopeful about Pippo back then. Maybe out of sheer desperation because I know the management won't bring anyone better in instead


No, can't agree at all.

The inconsistency of the players we're seeing now has to do with what Danny is saying. You can't be consistent when there's continuous change

Who are the best performing teams? Ones that have a set 11, that know each other inside out and can pass to each other with their eyes closed. Teams that have chemistry. Look at Chelsea, Real, Barca, any top team basically. They don't rotate almost the entire 11 each week. We have not played the same back 4 2 games in a row, how can you have cohesion and chemistry in these conditions?

Monto, De Jong, Menez, DS, Mexes, Rami, Zapata, Alex, Bonaventura and Poli were all looking good before the break, Monto especially was really picking up form after what was a really bad injury that most players take an entire season to recover from. But these last 2 games he's been p!ss poor, just like the others I mentioned in the list.

These last 2 games since coming back have been awful to watch. A goalkeeper has nothing to do with it, his form is more dependant upon himself, and while Lopez is a top player, you can't bulk the others that I mentioned and call them mediocre because they don't seem to know what the hell their coach wants from them.

Playing a disjointed 4-3-3 with no wingers in sight, playing a midfielder as a winger/forward, playing Menez as a #9, playing Niang out of the blue, playing Muntari over and over again when he brings nothing but trouble to the table. The way we shaped up was just all wrong, before the break we were compact and kept our shape much better, now it's a disjointed mess, the midfield isn't helping the defence at all, and imo it's the major reason why DS had to make the tackle that he got sent off for, we were giving Toro so much space.

It was all just a mess and imo it was all down to Pippo's decisions and tactics. Simple as that

Sure we had a lot of coaches in the last few years and none of them could do anything with this team, but you have to look at who those coaches were. Since Carlo we've had 3 rookies who had absolutely no experience with coaching a pro side and Allegri.


For once, I couldn't agree more with you

Posted by: William405 Jan 11 2015, 12:02 PM

I couldn't watch the match, was out. Seems they slaughtered us, though. Nothing, though, can be worse than the video below:


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2eh27m_

This sickens me. He deserves a big *** fine. What happened to Inzaghi's code of rules.

Posted by: Danny Jan 11 2015, 12:04 PM

Damn, I need to change my entire post then

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jan 11 2015, 12:38 PM

Yes, the thing is, our standards dropped. Montolivo is a prime example. He's become our captain although he has no leading abilities, no capacity to be a captain and on top of it no seniority. You say Monto has been superb - but how? With goals? The guy is miles away from scoring. With assists? He has zero of them. And more importantly, in how many games? Two, maybe three, but that's the limit.

And that's what I'm talking about. This is something called mediocrity for me (I know Han will disagree). No impact in mentality, few assists and goals, a fair amount of bad games mixed with okay or average performances and then a few good to excellent. All in all, a modest impact.

Don't get me wrong, with Monto on the pitch we do play better in theory and practically, but it's baby steps. We need a complete reboot, from below and above.



The problem is, football isn't just about deduction. You try to sound like Han, bringing in the basics of logic and all that. But football isn't science. Yes, the signs were already there, but it was natural to take more time and make a well argumented assessment.

In the end you were right, but hey, what's the point? Bravo for you. If I could turn back time, after the Juventus games, I'd still be saying we need more time to asses our situation and coach.

Posted by: Danny Jan 11 2015, 01:27 PM

Agreed.



Agreed and agreed.



His form in terms of composure had been good. You're right, no goals, no assists, but then he never was much good at that. His strength, when he is in the form I mentioned, is being able to steady midfield. He won't thread the ball through the eye of a defensive needle, nor does he score. His vision isn't great either, and he doesn't lead at all. But he does have a calming presence when he's on his game, allows him to pass simple, retain the ball, and begin passing movements going forward. It's not impressive, it's not Pirlo, and it's not worthy of Milan, but it, by our current standards, is decent and means we are able to retain structure in midfield.

Unlike the last two games where he's been posted missing or downright error-strewn.



Right now, we have only one player who is truly Milan class, and that's De Jong. He would have fit into the Seedorf/Gattuso Milan just fine. If Ambrosini did, De Jong sure would. However, the rest, Lopez, Alex, and Abate aside, have no case at all. Most are decent players, and as a whole it's a decent squad capable of being third in this frankly rubbish Serie A, but it's not what we expect from our Club. It is, however, what we're sadly coming to expect from them now.

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 11 2015, 02:16 PM

• We have won only 2 from the last 11 games
• Eight goals conceded from corner kicks
• Only 17 goals scored in the last 14 games
• Last night we had 34.7% ball possession
• Between 15' and 30' we couldn't perform two passes in a row

Just a few facts. The last one truly makes you think...

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 11 2015, 02:17 PM

Inter banned Osvaldo because he unleashed angrily at Icardi for not passing the ball. If we don't ban Muntari for such an unacceptable behavior then we have no principles whatsoever.

Posted by: dst Jan 11 2015, 09:19 PM

Why did Muntari do that though? Do we know if it's because he was taken off?

Posted by: Danny Jan 11 2015, 09:54 PM

Yup, that's all it was. He's a c*nt. He looked like a petulant little sh*t as he was walking off then lost it completely. It's one thing to be angry you've been subbed, getting out the frustration is ok like punching a wall or surface, but actually throwing things at other people is simply unnacceptable.

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 12 2015, 10:33 AM

If we had won these last two (easy) games we'd be third right now. Bunch of good-for-nothing shits...

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Jan 12 2015, 02:38 PM

Maybe there were racist chants towards him ?

Posted by: Danny Jan 12 2015, 03:01 PM

I don't care if he was called a monkey, c**n and vile black dog, as disgusting those terms are there's no excuse for throwing projectiles around his own dugout, potentially hurting/injuring his own team. Look at how Boateng reacted, Balotelli? Muntari's response was dreadful. He's a disgrace.

And he's been fined anyway, no ban.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Jan 12 2015, 03:26 PM

Well Boateng refused to continue playing when he was racially abused, that was much more drastic action than this. As for your saying that he could have hurt someone, clearly he didn't aim for anyone and he threw the bottle and the jacket in different directions so he wouldn't hit anyone. I think you're being too harsh on him, it's ok for him to be fined 'cos he deserved it, but we have had much more dangerous incidents with our players yet they weren't banned. As far as I'm concerned he is still a Milan player and his rage had nothing to do with our club, nor he humiliated us in any way.

Posted by: Danny Jan 12 2015, 03:33 PM

And was globally praised by everyone.



You might be alone on that view. I've been far more forgiving of Muntari in recent years than many, but this season he's really done my head in.

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Jan 12 2015, 03:48 PM

Oh so it only matters what others think ? That's very low 'cos you can't have double standars on the very same issue. You either tollerate (or even praise) players for reacting on racists chants or you fine them. So Boateng was a better player he could have done whatever he wanted ? This makes me think that some people don't give a crap about players personality. If Bonera was black and he reacted same way as Boateng did, would he be praised "globally" ? I strongly doubt it. And it's wrong 'cos racism doesn't aim for the level of player but it aims for the color of their skin.

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 12 2015, 03:59 PM

So, you think it's fine overreacting in such a spiteful way? He should be ashamed of himself. He gives zero effort when he plays, and gets batshit crazy when he gets subbed. Hypocrite, much?

Posted by: Danny Jan 12 2015, 04:30 PM

You're the one who raised alternative examples, not me. And at no point did I even imply my feelings one or the other about what others think.



I think calling my opinion on this as 'low' is slightly over the top, don't you think?



Well it entirely depends on the reaction in question. For example, if you wish to further expand the Boateng example, and clearly you do, he kicked the ball at the racists and the whole team walked off. Not just him, but the whole team.

Unfortunately Muntari reacted TO A SUBSTUTION by throwing objects at his team mates. You are the only one who claims this had anything to do with racism.

So the examples couldn't be more different.



Boateng was utterly rubbish for us by the point he did that, but it has absolutely no bearing on judging what he did in response to racism.



Yes.



I...know this?

tbh I'm really not sure what I've done to upset you so much!

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jan 12 2015, 05:54 PM

Dst raised a valuable question. Before making final judgements and exclusive statements we have to be at least well informed, or we end up spitting out paroles.

Posted by: Danny Jan 12 2015, 06:06 PM

I remember after the Napoli match last season Balotelli was seen crying after being subbed. Everyone shouted RACISM and he's been racially abused, where he himself nor the club confirmed this to be true. And we know Balo was not one for being quiet about such a thing.

So I think this is every inch the Muntari who pushed the ref away rather than some reaction to abuse in the crowd.

He's known for being a d*ck, and I had been very lenient on his behaviour in the past, but after his actions this season there's just no more room for it.

Fundementally, Milan have fined him for his reaction to being subbed. Why would Milan fine a player who had just been racially abused? They have not defended him regarding alleged racism.

Because the only one to claim there was racism was D'arc.

Posted by: Danny Jan 12 2015, 06:07 PM

PS: the club fining him puts us in the position you describe: of being well-informed.

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 12 2015, 06:16 PM

Seriously guys? If there had been anything remotely close to racist abuse it would have been all over the place. Muntari reacted like a tw@t because he got subbed, end of. You could tell he was pissed when he was lazily walking off the pitch. Let's not create conjecture out of thin air.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jan 12 2015, 07:57 PM

Why shouldn't we discuss possibilities? Because you think its thin air all the while your conclusions are what? Fundamentally founded?

Posted by: han2503 Jan 12 2015, 08:04 PM

Where the hell did this racism talk come from?

Muntari was acting like the petulant idiot that he truly is and we've seen this behaviour from him in the past.

There was no racism going on. No player or official mentioned anything of the sort. His reaction was a clear show of being p!ssed off at being subbed. Creating drama where there is none is needless, especially about something like racism

Anyway, I'm going to open the thread for the Coppa game, it totally slipped my mind that we'll be playing again tomorrow, and guess what, it's against our favourite team; Sassuolo

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jan 12 2015, 08:10 PM

Yes, I agree. Much of the blame goes on Pippo. But I think y'all are overrating our players. The kind of body language, nonchalance, the evident lack of someone truly standing out, no real grit and determination: it goes both sides. Inzaghi is most probably the one responsible, but I cannot see how this team could make a turnaround even with a seasoned coach.

And it's not that Inzaghi and Seedorf are complete strangers to modern football. They worked with some of the greatest coaches around, I wouldn't say they're completely green.

Posted by: han2503 Jan 12 2015, 08:23 PM

Body language, determination, effort, and all these things come from a coach, just as much as tactical know how, preparation and cohesion/chemistry

These are all things that are very much dependant on the coach, and I'm sorry, but Pippo is failing at all these key ingredients that do make a great coach.

No one is overrating the players. Our players are what they are, but as Danny said, Serie A these days is what it is. And there should be no excuses for these performances. We're losing points against some of the worst teams in this league, because of complacency, lack of concentration and effort. That's all it is, on paper we're better than pretty much all the teams we lost points to bar Juve and Roma. There should be no excuses with regards to player quality, and I greatly disagree with you on the seasoned coach bit

A seasoned tactician that knows how to prepare his team both mentally and physically would make us into a sure 3rd placed team in this league. Aside from the tactical mess you surely have to notice that our players do not seem physically fit, especially when they play twice a week. They've all struggled every time our fixture list got a bit clogged and we are a team who supposedly want European football, meaning a fixture list that is far more physically demanding than the one we have this season

As for Pippo and Seedorf, I stand by what I said a few months ago, Seedorf for me was the more obviously talented coach of the 2. You could clearly see what he was working on with the team, I might not have agreed with some of his decisions, but he had a vision of how he wanted his team to play and he worked on it. Pippo clearly does not

However for me, their inexperience was still a crucial factor, it's one thing to be a player listening to a coach like Carlo, it's another thing to step into his shoes to take on his role and be successful at it. The fact that they're coming on and taking on a team that's been in disarray for quiet some time is the reason why their inexperience is such a major factor. Had we had a star studded side they could have slid by and relied on their stars to pull them through any jams, but we don't have that, so their decisions are far more crucial, and their lack of preparation and lack of experience is far more visible, because they simply do not have the know-how to make a proper, well-functioning team out of the good, but not great individuals that we have

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 12 2015, 08:48 PM

Fillipo, now you're acting like a petulant child. What frigging possibilities? Like I said, if there was anything remotely close to racist abuse it would have been out already. Making stuff up is not discussing possibilities.

You want proof? Here's your goddamn proof: http://www.tuttomercatoweb.com/altre-notizie/milan-inzaghi-peccato-per-l-ennesimo-gol-subito-su-palla-inattiva-632772

Last line. "Muntari's reaction was normal because he was subbed. I did it because he was booked". That's in the words of your precious Pippo.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jan 13 2015, 02:05 AM

Is it really childish to go some deeper and and expect some informations here? Isn't this one of the points of a forum anyway?

Oh, and thanks, that clears it probably up. Pippo almost apologized, which is beyond me.

Why do you call him my precious? Have you been infected by the ring?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jan 13 2015, 10:40 AM

Man you simply cannot write other then extensive, can't you?

Well, we basically agree. Much of the blame goes on Pippo. The only thing I cannot agree with is that this team is a sure 3rd under an experienced coach. But hopefully I'm wrong.

Posted by: han2503 Jan 13 2015, 02:34 PM

Nope

Other than Inter who have their own issues, and maybe Napoli there isn't really any other team that stands out. Quality wise we're around the same level as Inter, maybe a step ahead of Napoli imo, so there really should be no excuses. So yeah, I do believe that an experienced, good coach would steer us to 3rd without much fanfare in this league

Yet we're losing points each week to teams that we should be winning against, without question.