[han2503]

You are probably right. OTH, despite the apparent interest from Rube, they have to sell first and ... how would they use him?

Latest reports are saying he'd be used as a wingback, which is just.... Blasphemy I say

What a waste, and typical Juve, buying players for the sole purpose of weakening the competition. They have Kulusevski, Chiesa is an idiot to move there

Do they need to sell, though?

Yes, they have too many players in that position now. Add to that their wage bill is insane and not sustainable.

You know, all this talk about signing a defender, and I think, why the hell did we give away Caldara? To this day that operation makes no sense to me. The guy has been fit since he joined Atalanta and has been starting games for them.

Nah, he never showed anything with us, aside from the endless injuries that is.

Defenders who look great playing in a back 3 should not be touched, even with a 10-foot pole. They always flatter to deceive.

Love how this got ignored. Serie A is increasing danger of being postponed.

Nah, don't think they will.

The rules are clear, if too many players are out due to infections, a postponement of the fixture is attempted, if it is not possible due to conflicts in fixtures, the team simply loses the match 3-0. It's harsh, but those are the rules. I don't think they will suspend sports again.

I believe they do. Latest news is that there is an agreement to get him on loan, but is contingent on them getting rid of Douglas Costa.

Mixed feelings about that. Chiesa has moments of brilliance and then completely disappears in some games.

I'd take Costa...

Anyways, Di Marzio is saying we're very close to closing out loan deals for both Diego Dalot and Rudiger from Man U and Chelsea respectively

[han2503]

@SimoneCristao: Diogo Dalot to AC Milan is a done deal


He seems interesting. Looks to be fast, can play on both sides of the pitch. Probably not so solid defensively from what I've seen he looks almost like an RM rather than a FB

Interesting that we could get both Rudiger and this guy on dry loans. It's obvious we're taking both of them as stop gap solutions. In the event of getting top 4, we'll most likely aim for better profiles

But I do think that both players will add quality to the team especially in the positions they play

[Forza Milan!]

@SimoneCristao: Diogo Dalot to AC Milan is a done deal


He seems interesting. Looks to be fast, can play on both sides of the pitch. Probably not so solid defensively from what I've seen he looks almost like an RM rather than a FB

Interesting that we could get both Rudiger and this guy on dry loans. It's obvious we're taking both of them as stop gap solutions. In the event of getting top 4, we'll most likely aim for better profiles

But I do think that both players will add quality to the team especially in the positions they play

I got mixed feelings about dry loans. They make sense if you are getting an experienced player as a stopgap measure, with the goal of buying someone later, perhaps when you can afford better options. Rudiger falls under this category. It makes less sense if you are developing a younger player in behalf of some other team. With Diaz, at least there are rumors that we will negotiate terms for buying him in the future. OTOH, Dalot is less experienced and there appears to be no chance of a deal (ManU is asking for way too much).

This mercato is turning out to be a bit of a disappointment. I like the fact that we are not overpaying for players (transfer fee or salary). That was the problem with B&G (towards the end), F&M, and even Leo. We are still suffering for these mistakes BTW, hard to get rid of fodder that was too expensive (so we cannot sell below a certain amount if we want to avoid a minusvalenza) and/or on too high a salary (so midtable teams will not touch them). That is why it is so hard to get rid of the likes of Laxalt and Conti (or, even worse, Halilović). With the current management, it seems like someone in the back room determines the value for a player and we do not go past that amount (somewhere I read that we now have a team of analysts that look at players kind of like in MoneyBall). I also like the fact that we operate mostly in the background, so most of what you read is speculations from journalists or pundits, with little behind that. Real moves seem to happen quickly.

OTOH, we have glaring gaps in our team. First team as well as depth (the latter became obvious in our last EL qualifiers). We will struggle to make CL with the present team.

This post has been edited by Forza Milan!: Oct 3 2020, 05:47 AM

[han2503]

I got mixed feelings about dry loans. They make sense if you are getting an experienced player as a stopgap measure, with the goal of buying someone later, perhaps when you can afford better options. Rudiger falls under this category. It makes less sense if you are developing a younger player in behalf of some other team. With Diaz, at least there are rumors that we will negotiate terms for buying him in the future. OTOH, Dalot is less experienced and there appears to be no chance of a deal (ManU is asking for way too much).

This mercato is turning out to be a bit of a disappointment. I like the fact that we are not overpaying for players (transfer fee or salary). That was the problem with B&G (towards the end), F&M, and even Leo. We are still suffering for these mistakes BTW, hard to get rid of fodder that was too expensive (so we cannot sell below a certain amount if we want to avoid a minusvalenza) and/or on too high a salary (so midtable teams will not touch them). That is why it is so hard to get rid of the likes of Laxalt and Conti (or, even worse, Halilović). With the current management, it seems like someone in the back room determines the value for a player and we do not go past that amount (somewhere I read that we now have a team of analysts that look at players kind of like in MoneyBall). I also like the fact that we operate mostly in the background, so most of what you read is speculations from journalists or pundits, with little behind that. Real moves seem to happen quickly.

OTOH, we have glaring gaps in our team. First team as well as depth (the latter became obvious in our last EL qualifiers). We will struggle to make CL with the present team.

It appears that Paolo and Massara barely had a 30m budget to operate within, and even that is a bit over in terms of an estimate.

But thinking within those terms, we have improved our team. Dalot might be a dry loan, but should he do well and we want to keep him we might be in a better position to negotiate with Man U next summer. Same goes for Diaz, plus we have an excellent relationship with Real so that should help.

And yes, we are still paying for the mistakes made in the past. Halilovic earns close to 1m net per year if I am not mistaken. He's barely good enough to play in a Serie C team. Laxalt earns more than Theo(!), this makes it hard to offload these players. At this rate we're going to have an over0inflated squad.

I still think we've had a very good mercato considering the circumstances. We don't want to tip over and have to pull out of the EL again due to our finances. Considering we sold players like Suso, Piantek and Paqueta for decent money I had hoped we'd be able to spend a bit more, but I would assume that money goes into plugging the yearly losses we make, due to very low profits.

I still think we need to try and sell a few more players. Conti, Laxalt, Duarte should all be sold in these next few days. There seems to be interest in Laxalt but let's see if we can get any actual money for him. Conti has been linked to Fiorentina and Duarte is just a waste of space, should try to send him on loan, especially if a new CB is coming. I'd also try to cut our losses with Samu. I'd also send Colombo on loan, he's nowhere near good enough to play Serie A games, no use keeping him when he won't be seeing any minutes

Recent rumours are linking us heavily with Kabak. If we can get that done, I'd rate our mercato a 7/10. We're still missing a top notch RW and I'd have liked Bakayoko back, but you can't get them all, and there's always January.

[han2503]

Just saw this from PBPCalcio

An important info learned about #DiogoDalot :

The situation is the same as that of #BrahimDiaz . The #Milan to speed up the agreement, given the tight deadline, it closed with a dry loan with the agreement to discuss the possible redemption later with the #United

So it seems we went for the dry loan to speed up the process due to the short time left. We'll go back and discuss an option to buy figure with Manu U later in the season

[Forza Milan!]

Just saw this from PBPCalcio

An important info learned about #DiogoDalot :

The situation is the same as that of #BrahimDiaz . The #Milan to speed up the agreement, given the tight deadline, it closed with a dry loan with the agreement to discuss the possible redemption later with the #United

So it seems we went for the dry loan to speed up the process due to the short time left. We'll go back and discuss an option to buy figure with Manu U later in the season

That is good to know. Diaz could be a good player for us, even though he is still adjusting. From what I hear most ManU fans rate Dalot, and he can cover multiple roles.

[Forza Milan!]

It appears that Paolo and Massara barely had a 30m budget to operate within, and even that is a bit over in terms of an estimate.

But thinking within those terms, we have improved our team. Dalot might be a dry loan, but should he do well and we want to keep him we might be in a better position to negotiate with Man U next summer. Same goes for Diaz, plus we have an excellent relationship with Real so that should help.

And yes, we are still paying for the mistakes made in the past. Halilovic earns close to 1m net per year if I am not mistaken. He's barely good enough to play in a Serie C team. Laxalt earns more than Theo(!), this makes it hard to offload these players. At this rate we're going to have an over0inflated squad.

I still think we've had a very good mercato considering the circumstances. We don't want to tip over and have to pull out of the EL again due to our finances. Considering we sold players like Suso, Piantek and Paqueta for decent money I had hoped we'd be able to spend a bit more, but I would assume that money goes into plugging the yearly losses we make, due to very low profits.

I still think we need to try and sell a few more players. Conti, Laxalt, Duarte should all be sold in these next few days. There seems to be interest in Laxalt but let's see if we can get any actual money for him. Conti has been linked to Fiorentina and Duarte is just a waste of space, should try to send him on loan, especially if a new CB is coming. I'd also try to cut our losses with Samu. I'd also send Colombo on loan, he's nowhere near good enough to play Serie A games, no use keeping him when he won't be seeing any minutes

Recent rumours are linking us heavily with Kabak. If we can get that done, I'd rate our mercato a 7/10. We're still missing a top notch RW and I'd have liked Bakayoko back, but you can't get them all, and there's always January.

Good to see a positive outlook :-). There are good signs, but we really need CL!

Isn't Kabak the one we were after last summer and ended up picking Schalke instead?

This post has been edited by Forza Milan!: Oct 4 2020, 01:27 AM

[han2503]

Good to see a positive outlook :-). There are good signs, but we really need CL!

Isn't Kabak the one we were after last summer and ended up picking Shalke instead?

No doubt we need the CL, the problem is that our hands are tied in terms of how much we're able to spend. FFP is such a f@cking joke. Clubs need to band together and demand UEFA change the rules. At this point it simply allows the rich to get richer and clubs who do not make astronomical profits to never be able to come out of their situations. Unless you're a team like City or PSG who can funnel funds through ridiculous sponsorships, you're f'd

Yes, same guy. I think the main thing was him wanting to stay in Germany rather than rejecting us

But we've apparently already agreed personal terms with him, we're trying to haggle Shalke now. Don't know if we'll be able to do it, but he'd be a great addition to the team, plus he's still only 20 years old

[X-Offender]

No doubt we need the CL, the problem is that our hands are tied in terms of how much we're able to spend. FFP is such a f@cking joke. Clubs need to band together and demand UEFA change the rules. At this point it simply allows the rich to get richer and clubs who do not make astronomical profits to never be able to come out of their situations. Unless you're a team like City or PSG who can funnel funds through ridiculous sponsorships, you're f'd

FFP is ruining football.

[X-Offender]

Kabak seems to be very highly rated, he's only 20, and can even play as DM in case of emergency. Schalke are asking 25M for him, which IMO is a very decent price.

We should stop acting like cheapskates, throwing a 15M price-tag on ever CB we're being linked with. We'll never get good players this way. We already got a good 50M from Suso, Paqueta and Rodriguez.

[Forza Milan!]

Kabak seems to be very highly rated, he's only 20, and can even play as DM in case of emergency. Schalke are asking 25M for him, which IMO is a very decent price.

We should stop acting like cheapskates, throwing a 15M price-tag on ever CB we're being linked with. We'll never get good players this way. We already got a good 50M from Suso, Paqueta and Rodriguez.

Looks like we are closer to a deal for Kabak, and what I read about him is (mostly) positive. OTOH, he plays for a club that leaks goals at an incredible rate (5 a game, it seems), but I guess that is not his fault :-)

Of course, I would like to see better signings, and I am still nervous about squad strength. That said, I like how we are handling the mercato. I don't think what we are seeing is about being "cheapskates". Rather, it is about running the club as a business, which is what you have to do to thrive under FFP rules. The way I understand it, when going after players someone establishes a value (I am sure Elliott have people that are good at that), then we haggle a bit, and in the end either we close with a price that is sustainable (meaning the player is likely to increase in value), or we move on (note that we offered quite a bit more than 15M for Fofana, which to me means he was valued more than Kabak or Toma). Compare this way of operating to how it was done by Fassobelli or Leo, throwing money at players and getting them above value. Those actions have cost us dearly, and it is not as if the money spent this way has gotten us any closer to CL.

While FFP is favoring teams with deep pockets, we are also witnessing the emergence of lesser clubs that are being run properly, like Atalanta and (even more so) the RB teams. We need to do the same. This including keeping expenses under tight control (all expenses). Previous management (all the way back to B&G) dug us into a massive hole for FFP purposes, and we need to climb out of it before we can spend. COVID is not helping either, and we are not the only team impacted by that (for example look at Schalke, there is a reason they are forced to sell Kabak despite their defense being s**t).

This post has been edited by Forza Milan!: Oct 4 2020, 01:27 AM

[X-Offender]

We're talking about 25M, man, not 75M. In today's market 25M is peanuts. And this is a position we desperately need to cover. If we can't afford even a 25M signing then we might as well throw the towel and aim for the EL again.

[Forza Milan!]

We're talking about 25M, man, not 75M. In today's market 25M is peanuts. And this is a position we desperately need to cover. If we can't afford even a 25M signing then we might as well throw the towel and aim for the EL again.

If I recall correctly, we offered somewhere around 35M for Fofana (so clearly we can go above 15M, and we are willing to do that if we want to :-)). Also, it looks like we are getting closer to a deal (which means Schalke must have dropped their demands some, and it also mean we are willing to go higher than our initial 15M bid).

This goes back to my point. Our current approach to negotiations involves the following:
- We assess a value for a player and bid based on that
- We start low and haggle
- If we cannot come close to our objectives, we are ready to walk away from the deal

Again, compare this with the approach taken by Fassobelli and even Leo. The way those deals went, it looked like they would go for whatever was asked (rather than the value they placed on the player) and did not do much haggling. That approach is bad business, and got us nowhere. And it is not just about the one deal, it is about the reputation you build. If people know they can ask you for whatever they want and you will just cave in ... well, they will most certainly take advantage of that. As I see it, if you want to be successful as a club, you need to think long term, not just about satisfying the immediate needs regardless of the consequences.

[Forza Milan!]

BTW, I also like the fact that we are starting to buy young players with promise and loaning them out to other teams (or playing them in the primavera). This is what other more successful clubs have been doing for some time, and it has been paying off for them. Even if the player does not turn into a superstar, you can typically sell him to mid-table clubs at a profit. These profits will allow us to go after more expensive players in the future. Some players can also make it on to the first team (which is even better).

We got the forward from Sweden early in the transfer market, just got someone whose name sounds like a Colombian drug lord a couple of days ago, and a 6.4 foot giant today.

[X-Offender]

If I recall correctly, we offered somewhere around 35M for Fofana (so clearly we can go above 15M, and we are willing to do that if we want to :-)).

Well, you don't recall correctly. 35M was the asking price from Saint-Etienne. We offered much lower, and eventually the player went to Leicester who matched their request.

Same argument for Tomiyasu. Bologna ask 25M, we're not willing to go beyond 15M for him.

And if you really wanna talk about player value, then Transfermarkt, arguably the most reliable external source about player values, has Kabak valued at 29M, even more than what Schalke are asking.

I repeat, we should start increasing our bids if we want to get some decent players.

Latest rumour is that we are now offering 18M + bonuses for Kabak, with a loan + obligation to buy formula. Both parties seem to be getting closer. Here's to hoping.