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Danny
post Jul 16 2017, 10:53 AM
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I was in a very grumpy mood last night so I retract certain aspects of my emotional response, but my reasoning was indeed sound.

If you sign someone whose record does not stand out for a lot of money, why should you automatically have high hopes for him.

It's not about open mindedness or otherwise, it's about looking at someone's record, and how they play, and how much you paid, and making a deduction on what they can deliver for your team based on it. And based on that Bonucci is a stunning signing I'm overjoyed with. But Silva isn't.

I simply hope he proves me wrong, and I can only keep repeating that. As for Borini, it helps that he's only been signed for squad depth and nothing else. So our expectations can be low for him without any catch.

Also your argument goes the other way. Bonucci hasn't trained with the team yet either yet you're not telling me off for being overjoyed with that signing? Why is criticism only merited when I don't rate a player as highly as everyone else?
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han2503
post Jul 16 2017, 02:33 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 16 2017, 10:53 AM) *
I was in a very grumpy mood last night so I retract certain aspects of my emotional response, but my reasoning was indeed sound.

If you sign someone whose record does not stand out for a lot of money, why should you automatically have high hopes for him.

It's not about open mindedness or otherwise, it's about looking at someone's record, and how they play, and how much you paid, and making a deduction on what they can deliver for your team based on it. And based on that Bonucci is a stunning signing I'm overjoyed with. But Silva isn't.

I simply hope he proves me wrong, and I can only keep repeating that. As for Borini, it helps that he's only been signed for squad depth and nothing else. So our expectations can be low for him without any catch.

Also your argument goes the other way. Bonucci hasn't trained with the team yet either yet you're not telling me off for being overjoyed with that signing? Why is criticism only merited when I don't rate a player as highly as everyone else?

But Bonucci is a known quantity to all. Personally I don't rate him that highly as a CB in the classic sense. I think part of what's made him so great is the system Conte created at Juve. He does have flaws imo, BUT he's still considered as one of the best CBs in the world because his defensive qualities although not perfect are still very good and his ball distribution is simply second to none. With all that, I still think he's a game changer for us.

Also, being positive is one thing, but being overly negative is something altogether completely different. I'm personally optimistic about all the guys we brought in, I have bigger doubts over some (Hakan, Silva, Musacchio, Borini), while with others I'm more confident they'll work out (Bonucci, Conti, Kessie, Biglia). Why? First off I'm much more familiar with the guys coming from Serie A, second I think they'll find it easier to adapt, as for Rodriguez I think he's a very classy player that will adapt quickly.

Still, I'm not saying that any of the 4 I mentioned I have doubts about are bad and it's up to them to prove me wrong. I'll keep an open mind and wait until we're at least in the middle of the season before I can judge whether they were good signings or not
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Danny
post Jul 16 2017, 02:52 PM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ Jul 16 2017, 02:33 PM) *
But Bonucci is a known quantity to all. Personally I don't rate him that highly as a CB in the classic sense. I think part of what's made him so great is the system Conte created at Juve. He does have flaws imo, BUT he's still considered as one of the best CBs in the world because his defensive qualities although not perfect are still very good and his ball distribution is simply second to none. With all that, I still think he's a game changer for us.

Also, being positive is one thing, but being overly negative is something altogether completely different. I'm personally optimistic about all the guys we brought in, I have bigger doubts over some (Hakan, Silva, Musacchio, Borini), while with others I'm more confident they'll work out (Bonucci, Conti, Kessie, Biglia). Why? First off I'm much more familiar with the guys coming from Serie A, second I think they'll find it easier to adapt, as for Rodriguez I think he's a very classy player that will adapt quickly.

Still, I'm not saying that any of the 4 I mentioned I have doubts about are bad and it's up to them to prove me wrong. I'll keep an open mind and wait until we're at least in the middle of the season before I can judge whether they were good signings or not


You're too liberal for me. If a player or manager isn't doing it inside a month or two, chances are they never will. Fed up with the 'give it time' or 'let it gel' brigade which affords extra time to things which never work out.
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han2503
post Jul 16 2017, 03:05 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 16 2017, 02:52 PM) *
You're too liberal for me. If a player or manager isn't doing it inside a month or two, chances are they never will. Fed up with the 'give it time' or 'let it gel' brigade which affords extra time to things which never work out.

Not everything work with the snap of a finger, sometimes things do actually need time to really start working to the best of their abilities.

Just like I don't think we'll hit the ground running as a team, I don't think all our signings will either. It's a completely new side, You simply have to give it time

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Danny
post Jul 16 2017, 03:16 PM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ Jul 16 2017, 03:05 PM) *
Not everything work with the snap of a finger, sometimes things do actually need time to really start working to the best of their abilities.

Just like I don't think we'll hit the ground running as a team, I don't think all our signings will either. It's a completely new side, You simply have to give it time


Only a modest amount of time. Not the months and months folk want to give. It's far more the case when something is rubbish at the start, it remains the case. Only a minority ever turn it around. In Milan colours I can think of very few players who were poor for three+ months then eventually became great.
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X-Offender
post Jul 16 2017, 06:05 PM
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Danny, you're wrong if you think we are praising Silva. We're not. Personally, I know nothing about him. Before signing him I had never heard of his name. The only things I know about him are his stats, a few info I've read about what type of player he is, and some YouTube clips.

I am completely open-minded that he might either turn into a great player or a failure. Given the high expectations people have about him and his stats with Porto last season, I am more inclined towards the former. But anything can happen. However, I cannot judge him before he performs for us.

That is what you are doing and why we're disagreeing here. You see now?
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Danny
post Jul 16 2017, 07:55 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jul 16 2017, 06:05 PM) *
Danny, you're wrong if you think we are praising Silva. We're not. Personally, I know nothing about him. Before signing him I had never heard of his name. The only things I know about him are his stats, a few info I've read about what type of player he is, and some YouTube clips.

I am completely open-minded that he might either turn into a great player or a failure. Given the high expectations people have about him and his stats with Porto last season, I am more inclined towards the former. But anything can happen. However, I cannot judge him before he performs for us.

That is what you are doing and why we're disagreeing here. You see now?


No, I don't think you're praising hm, I think you all wish to deny me a right to have my opinion though, because you dislike it. You're literally calling me wrong to have major doubts about him, and I stand firm with my strong caution.

So, that's not what I am doing - I am exercising my right to not buy into him. If I turn out wrong I will joyously apologise. But if not, I think I deserve an apologise myself for basically being told to shut up.
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Danny
post Jul 16 2017, 07:56 PM
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Incidentally, I was done with Han as he was with the topic too, and I am now 100% not engaging again in debate of this nature about Silva. I will see how he gets on and cross my fingers that he works out.
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X-Offender
post Jul 16 2017, 08:42 PM
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It's not that we're denying you the right to have an opinion, but rather we're saying that the basis for your opinion are not very solid.
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Danny
post Jul 16 2017, 11:32 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jul 16 2017, 08:42 PM) *
It's not that we're denying you the right to have an opinion, but rather we're saying that the basis for your opinion are not very solid.


You mean the facts? Ok. We can agree to disagree. Move on, because, and I say this with the highest respect from one Milanisti to another; I'm utterly sick of this conversation and it's making this forum unenjoyable.
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