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Danny
post Jul 25 2014, 09:53 PM
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QUOTE (milanbuf88 @ Jul 25 2014, 08:06 PM) *
A total waste? You're joking right? We probably made that back off of his efforts that got us CL football his last healthy season.


Well this is just completely false. SES, who barely kicked a ball in anger from November 2012 to the following May, is now suddenly singlehandedly responsible for getting us from mid table in November to third in May.

Those two goals he scored from January to the end of season clearly meant more than I realise!

My mistake!
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kurtsimonw
post Jul 25 2014, 10:37 PM
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Cerci is mediocre, SES is not.

lol
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milanbuf88
post Jul 25 2014, 11:24 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 25 2014, 05:53 PM) *
Well this is just completely false. SES, who barely kicked a ball in anger from November 2012 to the following May, is now suddenly singlehandedly responsible for getting us from mid table in November to third in May.

Those two goals he scored from January to the end of season clearly meant more than I realise!

My mistake!


We wouldn't have had half as many points as we did in January if it weren't for his contribution the first half of the season. He was the one bright spot in an otherwise abysmal first half.
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milanbuf88
post Jul 25 2014, 11:28 PM
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QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jul 25 2014, 06:37 PM) *
Cerci is mediocre, SES is not.

lol


I hope that wasn't directed at me. I haven't weighed in either way on Cerci. I think he's considerably better than Han makes him out to be since Han seems to think he's Candreva level bad. Cerci would be a decent pick up for us at the right price considering we only have two real wingers right now.
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Danny
post Jul 25 2014, 11:46 PM
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QUOTE (milanbuf88 @ Jul 25 2014, 10:24 PM) *
We wouldn't have had half as many points as we did in January if it weren't for his contribution the first half of the season. He was the one bright spot in an otherwise abysmal first half.


Up to November I admit he was stopping us totally disintegrating, but if he'd truly carried us by January we'd have been better than midtable.

It was after that draw in Naples, his brace, which saw us climb at last.

But his...HIS goals dried up after that.
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X-Offender
post Jul 25 2014, 11:53 PM
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QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Jul 25 2014, 10:37 PM) *
Cerci is mediocre, SES is not.

lol


Way to mix people's opinions, Kurt.
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milanbuf88
post Jul 25 2014, 11:57 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 25 2014, 07:46 PM) *
Up to November I admit he was stopping us totally disintegrating, but if he'd truly carried us by January we'd have been better than midtable.

It was after that draw in Naples, his brace, which saw us climb at last.

But his...HIS goals dried up after that.


Your argument completely ignores the defensive work he did over the second half. Even if we ignore that, if he hadn't carried the team in the first half we would have been in the relegation zone. It's not his fault that our back line was a complete mess. He scored 14 of our 31 (might be off by one or two there) goals in the league through December. I don't care when in the season those goals occurred. Without them we wouldn't have come close to third.

This post has been edited by milanbuf88: Jul 25 2014, 11:58 PM
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Danny
post Jul 26 2014, 02:05 AM
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QUOTE (milanbuf88 @ Jul 25 2014, 10:57 PM) *
Your argument completely ignores the defensive work he did over the second half. Even if we ignore that, if he hadn't carried the team in the first half we would have been in the relegation zone. It's not his fault that our back line was a complete mess. He scored 14 of our 31 (might be off by one or two there) goals in the league through December. I don't care when in the season those goals occurred. Without them we wouldn't have come close to third.


That's ridiculous. His goals got us to around 13th in the table. All they did was stop us getting into the bottom 3, as you rightly put it.

But it's quite literally the most bizarre thing to suggest SES was the difference between us and missing out on CL. And my argument doesn't ignore the defensive work he did, it isn't the same debate but you're trying to mix them into it.

Furthermore you compound your own argument by saying that he did a lot of good work in defence, but it didn't matter anyway because our defence was a joke. So, the good work you claim he did, and tbh yes, he tracked back, is, in your view, totally pointless because it made no difference.

I just find your reasoning bizarre - you're whoring off his offensive achievements up to December, then permissing his total lack of them in the second half of the season by promoting what he did in defence.

All the while dismissing the fact that the best period of our season, the second half, was during SES' worst. By saying he 'tracked back'.

(IMG:http://cdn.caughtoffside.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Serie-A-table.png)

September 30th 2012. Your hero's goals had us 11th. When they dried up and others stepped up we were second in form only to Juve and finished third.
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Bluesummers
post Jul 26 2014, 03:42 AM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 25 2014, 09:05 AM) *
Only one person on here believed Galliani when that horsesh*t got fed us in 2012. And that was R7.

Quite adamant he was that it was all about building for the future and starting again.

Then Milan signed 87 year old Michael Essien (in fairness even I thought that was a good signing. I was horribly wrong).


No we do, i think our objective is to make the club look attractive and sell it at a value that berlusconi can recoup the majority of his investment.

He rejected a 300m euro bid already. He's probably looking for 500-600. He won't get it tho, not at this rate.
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Bluesummers
post Jul 26 2014, 03:46 AM
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You guys are missing the big picture. We need players who can have an impact NOW. not in 5 years, 1 year, 6 months. Today!

If we start serie A like we did last season, our team will finish midtable and that will crush us in multiple ways.

Sponsors will tell us to f*ck off, people will start jumping ship, tv deals will start to disappear, players will want a quick exit. Stadiums will be empty and our club will sink into further debt. That absoloutly cannot happen, or it will be the end of milan. Berlu isn't gonna save us.


Our competition for third is Napoli, fior and Inter. We need to get players who can at least compete with their level and Cerci currently is one of the best wingers in the league. I believe with cerci we can at least make a realistic shot for top 6.


With an added quality midfielder ( hoping inzaghi and injuries don't screw us up), we can make a serious launch for 3rd.

If we had monto we would be okay and wouldn't need a midfielder but we desperately need one now until he gets back. I'd also drop honda back to add some creativity and control to our mid. Cuz sure as Hell poli or saponara aint gonna add anything. Cristante is too young.


Abate-Ramex-De gigolo

-new signing-De jong- Honda

-Cerci- flopotelli- el shar

This post has been edited by Bluesummers: Jul 26 2014, 03:51 AM
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Bluesummers
post Jul 26 2014, 04:16 AM
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anyways it looks like Cerci is too complicated. Torino want 20m and it looks like Monaco is humouring it so we are pretty much out.


We are after Campbell now from Arsenal. Possibility of Campbell cash for balo.

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Forza Milan!
post Jul 26 2014, 04:50 AM
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QUOTE (Bluesummers @ Jul 26 2014, 05:16 AM) *
anyways it looks like Cerci is too complicated. Torino want 20m and it looks like Monaco is humouring it so we are pretty much out.

We are after Campbell now from Arsenal. Possibility of Campbell cash for balo.

All of the options being mentioned feel rather depressing.
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Forza Milan!
post Jul 26 2014, 05:36 AM
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I don't get the obsession with Allegri. He is gone, let's move on!

FWIW, here is where I stand (though I believe others may feel the same way):
- I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, so AFAIAC there is no reason I should not do the same with Pippo, regardless of what I may have said about Allegri in the past. Fair is fair.
- I did not start out with a negative opinion of Allegri. In fact, I was grateful for him winning us a scudetto. He deserves credit for that (even though he did have the best team around at the time). My opinion changed towards the end of his 2nd year (IMHO we should have won again), and I started getting very frustrated in his 3rd year. Granted the loss of key players was devastating, and granted he deserves credit for pulling us back to a CL spot late in the year. Still, his flaws became apparent, and by his 4th year the situation had become untenable. (When a rookie coach takes over a team in total disarray and manages to do much better than his predecessor, it is clear something needed to change.)
- We will see how good Allegri really is now that he is at Juve. Once again he has the best team around (even better than last year AFAIAC), though in fairness he will face a challenge from Roma and maybe Napoli. So far, his record with the strongest team in Serie A is only 1 for 2, let's see how he does this time around.
- Player signing is normally up to management and not the coach, so most of our bad decisions are on Galliani and not Allegri. However, there are exceptions, like Matri (Allegri) and Essien (Seedorf).
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han2503
post Jul 26 2014, 08:54 AM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 26 2014, 02:05 AM) *
That's ridiculous. His goals got us to around 13th in the table. All they did was stop us getting into the bottom 3, as you rightly put it.

But it's quite literally the most bizarre thing to suggest SES was the difference between us and missing out on CL. And my argument doesn't ignore the defensive work he did, it isn't the same debate but you're trying to mix them into it.

Furthermore you compound your own argument by saying that he did a lot of good work in defence, but it didn't matter anyway because our defence was a joke. So, the good work you claim he did, and tbh yes, he tracked back, is, in your view, totally pointless because it made no difference.

I just find your reasoning bizarre - you're whoring off his offensive achievements up to December, then permissing his total lack of them in the second half of the season by promoting what he did in defence.

All the while dismissing the fact that the best period of our season, the second half, was during SES' worst. By saying he 'tracked back'.

(IMG:http://cdn.caughtoffside.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Serie-A-table.png)

September 30th 2012. Your hero's goals had us 11th. When they dried up and others stepped up we were second in form only to Juve and finished third.

So you're blaming the entire team's form (or lack-there-of in the case of the first half of the season) on SES?

Had SES not been in the form he had been in those first few months of the season we would have been in the relegation zone by January. And with that position, we would never have gotten 3rd, even if the entire team produced better form than Juve in that second half, simply because the position would have made it impossible to climb up to third.

So as you can see SES might not have steered us to a CL position all on his own that season, but without his contributions we'd never would have gotten there. So it's unfair to literally try to brush aside all that he did for the team that season

2nd of all, his defensive work on that wing is what made Constant look like an acceptable LB to the majority of us that season and what then the following season without SES covering his @ss made him look like the complete mess we know him to be nowadays
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milanbuf88
post Jul 26 2014, 02:19 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Jul 25 2014, 10:05 PM) *
That's ridiculous. His goals got us to around 13th in the table. All they did was stop us getting into the bottom 3, as you rightly put it.

But it's quite literally the most bizarre thing to suggest SES was the difference between us and missing out on CL. And my argument doesn't ignore the defensive work he did, it isn't the same debate but you're trying to mix them into it.

Furthermore you compound your own argument by saying that he did a lot of good work in defence, but it didn't matter anyway because our defence was a joke. So, the good work you claim he did, and tbh yes, he tracked back, is, in your view, totally pointless because it made no difference.

I just find your reasoning bizarre - you're whoring off his offensive achievements up to December, then permissing his total lack of them in the second half of the season by promoting what he did in defence.

All the while dismissing the fact that the best period of our season, the second half, was during SES' worst. By saying he 'tracked back'.

(IMG:http://cdn.caughtoffside.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Serie-A-table.png)

September 30th 2012. Your hero's goals had us 11th. When they dried up and others stepped up we were second in form only to Juve and finished third.


His defensive work and lack of goals the second half are a completely different discussion. My original point is that his play through December was critical to our achieving 3rd that year and was worth more than the 15m we payed for him. Like han said, without his goals during the first half we wouldn't be in a position to make that second half run. We got third by 2 points that year. Without El Shaarawy's goals we have 12 fewer points through December and the exact same run of form in the second half gets us into 8th not 3rd.
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