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AC Milan - Milanfan.com _ Players _ Abate
Posted by: m1ke Jul 14 2008, 08:49 AM
All Ignazio Abate talk in here.
Posted by: han2503 Jul 14 2008, 06:35 PM
He said that he wants to be sent on loan to play consistanly next season.
Still happy we gave him a 4 year deal and he'll be back after his loan spell with more games and experiance under his belt
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 15 2008, 10:35 AM
Still happy we gave him a 4 year deal and he'll be back after his loan spell with more games and experiance under his belt
Yep. And now that we have (await) Dinho, his loan deal isn't that bad.
Posted by: dst Jul 16 2008, 08:42 PM
I hope to see him in a Milan shirt in the future!
Posted by: jefri91 Jul 20 2008, 09:16 AM
I like this guy, he is very talented and faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast
Posted by: Tennie Jul 20 2008, 11:41 AM
I like Abate too -- he did rather well at Empoli last year, all things considered, and he really impressed me during the Toulon tournament (see the nice match reports that whoarethepatriots did). I'd like to see him remade into a right back because he IS fast down the flanks and has a good cross. Another year on loan somewhere where he'll get more playing time might not be a bad idea though. Note: Abate is a member of the Italian Olympic team.
Posted by: Tennie Jul 23 2008, 04:06 PM
L'A.C. Milan comunica di aver ceduto in compartecipazione all'F.C. Torino le prestazioni sportive del calciatore Ignazio Abate.
[Milan announces that they have sold Ignazio Abate to Torino in a co-ownership deal.]
Posted by: dst Jul 23 2008, 04:28 PM
Well done! Now let him develop and spend a bunch of millions to get him back... 
Now this is stupid! Just what the ****?
Posted by: Jako19 Jul 23 2008, 04:33 PM
******* really, I fell like let go all of our young promising youngins....
I don't like it either, but even so obscenities aren't allowed.
Posted by: zdrossoneri Jul 23 2008, 04:34 PM
L'A.C. Milan comunica di aver ceduto in compartecipazione all'F.C. Torino le prestazioni sportive del calciatore Ignazio Abate.
[Milan announces that they have sold Ignazio Abate to Torino in a co-ownership deal.]
I have no idea how good he is, but this sounds stupid. considering he was quoted on acmilan.com as saying 'one year out on loan, then Milan', roughly two weeks ago. I don't understand why we sold half of his contract...
Posted by: gal_kenny Jul 23 2008, 04:59 PM
Don't worry we gonna get him bak..We're just trying him out by selling half of his contract...He's regarded as a milan future and Galliani praised him publicly...If or when he performs good in the Olympics, Galliani would surely bring him bak because he belongs to milan...I ain't worried cuz i know he's gonna come bak
Posted by: TriniKing_CE Jul 23 2008, 05:21 PM
Yes this is possible, but wouldn't a loan have been more fesasible for us
Posted by: whoarethepatriots Jul 23 2008, 05:28 PM
This is a little disapointing. I hope he does well enough at Toro and we buy him back, but there is always the possibility we will be made to look stupid in the progress e.g. Borriello and his transfer
Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Jul 23 2008, 06:02 PM
why do we always do co-owner shps deal ???
Posted by: Bluesummers Jul 23 2008, 07:56 PM
money, it seems after all there will be one last transfer. I can see why we did that instead of just straight up loaning him.
Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Jul 23 2008, 08:01 PM
i read he and paloschi to be in cownerships deals to finance alex silva
Posted by: Bluesummers Jul 23 2008, 08:07 PM
yup i knew it. We dont just do co ownerships for no reasons. Good find cmf
Posted by: Habitant Jul 24 2008, 01:40 AM
yep this is rebuilding 
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Jul 24 2008, 05:23 AM
It's really a double edged sword I guess. What if there are two teams - Team A and Team B? At Team A he will play. And at Team B he will play with a good foundation and at an excellent atmosphere to develop. But Team B will only take him on a co-ownership, while Team A will be willing to take him on a loan. What then??
Now I'm not saying this is how it is, but it could be. We can't judge without knowing facts. And they're not gonna reveal all the facts either. For all you know, this co-ownership, might not involve money at all, but first option on Rosina. I don't consider Milan as complete retards on the market. You don't last 20 years among the top 10 clubs in Europe that way.
Posted by: Diavolo Jul 24 2008, 01:26 PM
As Galliani said, nowdays nobody is willing to grow your talents in their team and than when they become realy good returning them back for nothing (in terms of money and the money is everything in these days - sure the team benefits momentarely from his performances, but if the player isn't yours and you know that if he performs well he will go away for nothing, than with co-ownership at least you get some money for that - small teams almost live from that money). You have to pay for growing your talented players in other teams and that is what Co-ownerships are about.
Plus you get some money right away for other transfers and other options for talented players of that team.
Just don't worry, if Abate continues to play like he did and grows his talent even more, then he will be back to Milan in 1-2 years.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 24 2008, 03:40 PM
THe thing with co-ownership, I just don't understand how on earth it benefits Milan at all. We still have to pay to get the player back, so why not just loan him out for a few seasons? I don't understand. 
Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Jul 24 2008, 03:46 PM
yea borriello hald contract was sold for about 1.5 million euroes and was bought for about 10 million now abate is sold for 2 million after 2 years if he plays well his price will be what 12 million does not make sense to me
Posted by: dst Jul 24 2008, 03:47 PM
It's what Diavolo says, it makes sense.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 24 2008, 03:51 PM
So why do it then? We sell half of the player for a tiny amount, but if he plays well, we end up buying the half back for 4 or 5 times the amount we sold it for. I just don't see the upside for co-ownership for a team like Milan. Surely just loaning would be more beneficial.
Posted by: han2503 Jul 24 2008, 04:13 PM
They usually do co-ownership deals rather then loans because the players would get much more playing time then they would if they were just loaned.
But still co-ownership deals always favour the big clubs so if he really does well next season we'll buy him back
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Jul 24 2008, 08:23 PM
Now I'm not saying this is how it is, but it could be. We can't judge without knowing facts. And they're not gonna reveal all the facts either. For all you know, this co-ownership, might not involve money at all, but first option on Rosina. I don't consider Milan as complete retards on the market. You don't last 20 years among the top 10 clubs in Europe that way.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 24 2008, 09:42 PM
I still don't get the Borriello one, as we do have the numbers for that. We sold half of him, then bought that half back for £6m. Now we definitly did not sell our half for that much, so surely that's just wasted money? I honestly don't see the upside for Milan in this deal. Yes, he got first team experience, but he would have got that from a loan too, and it'd have saved us £6m as well.
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Jul 24 2008, 10:18 PM
Ur speaking on hindsight.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 24 2008, 11:44 PM
It's really irrelevant, it's just common sense, especially with young players.
Loan:
The player remains yours - he gains experience elsewhere - you then have the player back at the club.
If he turns out bad, you sell him for a small price, if he's good, you've had to pay nothing for a good player.
Co-ownership:
You make a small fee to sell half - he gains experience elsewhere - you have to buy the player back.
If he turns out bad, you can get rid of the other half of him, you don't make much. If he's good, you have to pay out to get the player back.
So the outcomes are:
If he's bad? You barely make anything on either a loan or a co-ownership as he is not of much value.
If he's good? With a loan you keep a good player, without costing you a thing. With co-ownership, you have to end up paying out to get him back.
I do not see one single upside with co-ownership. And I'm amazed that after the Marco situation we haven't learned from it and have done it again with Abate.
Posted by: Diavolo Jul 25 2008, 01:35 AM
Because almost no one wants loaned players in their teams (every year it's more difficult to negotiate a loan, because the other team has no gain from that in the long run, so they at least try to make some money in short run and for small teams that's a big deal). It's co-ownership or nothing. If the player than remains in your team and doesn't play (just in coppa games - big deal) it's even more bad. You have to risk something in order to gain in the future and that has a price like all things in life.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 25 2008, 01:48 AM
But when a small club loans somebody, they're getting somebody for free to fill a hole for them, why would they not want that? Hell, even top clubs loan players in since they're so beneficial.
Co-ownership, I think, is one of the most laughable thing in football.
Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Jul 25 2008, 02:01 AM
Co-ownership, I think, is one of the most laughable thing in football.
and the worse part is that gallaini seems to be in love with it
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Jul 25 2008, 05:30 AM
I still don't see what the problem is here kurt.
Think of it this way... their half of the ownership is the fee we are paying Torino to train Abate. And understand this, during this time, we do not pay his salary either.
Now on loan, Torino gets this bloke for one year, and then they have to pay his salary, after that, either the loan needs to renegotiated, or he might move onto another club. It's not really the sort of thing on which Torino can have cause for stability.
Now if it's a co-ownership, there's a contract out, and if Abate does so well that Milan want him back, they have to pay (like we did with genoa), so finally there is something in it for Torino for all the effort they put into training him etc. Else Milan will continue the co-ownership. He'll play for Torino,but Torino have got a decent player for less price. It's common sense for Torino. Otherwise they're just being used.
Loaning works kinda wierdly in Italy. It's very rare for loaned players from Italy to have a lot of space in the first team. Think of Di Gennaro or Digao.
Besides, it also creates some good relationships between the clubs, which might be very useful for the future. In case a new Lentini pops up in Torino. 
Posted by: Habitant Jul 25 2008, 05:55 AM
Co-ownership, I think, is one of the most laughable thing in football.
Co-ownership is good for mid-table and lower half clubs.
you sell half a player to a club in a similar financial position.
by the end of the season if you need the money (as do many of these clubs) you sell your half, if you really want the player then pay up. and player fees tend to not inflate as much as well.
Posted by: dst Jul 25 2008, 10:10 AM
I think co-ownership makes sense. I mean... for a mid-table team (that's getting the player) it's the best choice. Of course Milan can opt for a smaller team but a better team means better players and I think that's more beneficial for a young player's development. Also, it guarantees more chances...
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Jul 25 2008, 10:54 AM
Concurrence.
Now pay me Pana. 
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Jul 25 2008, 11:06 AM
Loan:
The player remains yours - he gains experience elsewhere - you then have the player back at the club.
If he turns out bad, you sell him for a small price, if he's good, you've had to pay nothing for a good player.
Co-ownership:
You make a small fee to sell half - he gains experience elsewhere - you have to buy the player back.
If he turns out bad, you can get rid of the other half of him, you don't make much. If he's good, you have to pay out to get the player back.
So the outcomes are:
If he's bad? You barely make anything on either a loan or a co-ownership as he is not of much value.
If he's good? With a loan you keep a good player, without costing you a thing. With co-ownership, you have to end up paying out to get him back.
I do not see one single upside with co-ownership. And I'm amazed that after the Marco situation we haven't learned from it and have done it again with Abate.
I know the difference kurt ... It isn't exactly rocket science.
Thing is, Milan have always sent it's players on co-ownership deals. Some players come back and make the first team, others remain at other clubs and are more than often bought by them. Milan tends to do this in most cases to help out the other teams in Serie A. And if a player peaks there, its not a problem, Milan bring the player back.
Now if the reason behind you not seeing this as a feasible move, and prefer an alternative, ie loaning the player ... It is just a matter of politics between the Milan management and the other clubs.
This is another element of the Milan philosophy, just like when Buffon got injured and the management handed them Abiatti.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 25 2008, 07:00 PM
Think of it this way... their half of the ownership is the fee we are paying Torino to train Abate. And understand this, during this time, we do not pay his salary either.
Loaning works kinda wierdly in Italy. It's very rare for loaned players from Italy to have a lot of space in the first team. Think of Di Gennaro or Digao.
It's not a problem as such, just annoying that it's a bad idea.
I don't think we should be paying them though - which is why I think a loan is much better. The fee we pay them should not be their 'reward'. Their 'reward' is having a Milan class player bang in 19 goals for them, for free - in a co-ownership deal, they have to buy half of him, so he wouldn't be free. A loan suits both parties so well Milan get the player trained for them, Genoa get a class player for free, who'll score plenty of goals.
I don't see why whether the deal is a loan or co-ownership should have any bearing at all. So you're telling me that if Boriello to Genoa was a loan and not a co-ownership, he would have played much less? Nah, you play the best players available, regardless of the reason them being on your squad list.
Suppose it's just a difference of opinion.
Posted by: whoarethepatriots Jul 25 2008, 11:41 PM
The advantage of a co-ownership is that it gives the player a sense of security. Borriello was happy at Genoa and he knew if he didnt too well Genoa would have probably bought him back. he was given confidence and treated as a potential long term signing. Compare that to a loan (he went to Doria, Treviso etc) he never had any confidence and so suffered, the security was missing because even if he did do well, Sheva, Inzaghi etc were all there and he would have been shipped to another side
The Abate co-ownership is puzzling. He is a bright light for the future and i expected a loan for experience not a CO for security
Posted by: Tennie Aug 18 2008, 10:47 PM
Brutta tegola in casa Torino. Il centrocampista Ignazio Abate, infortunatosi con la Nazionale Olimpica del ct Pierluigi Casiraghi nei Giochi di Pechino, dovrà restare lontano dai campi di gioco per sei settimane. Gli esami cui si è sottoposto il giocatore hanno evidenziato una lesione di primo grado al bicipite femorale sinistro.
Bad news for Torino: Ignacio Abate is facing 6 weeks off. Exams have shown that he's got a tear in his left thigh muscle. 
Posted by: YoungGun Aug 24 2008, 06:44 PM
I'm not sure about my idea, but in world class team like Milan, very few youth can enter the 1st team. It means that even Milan sell a half of, let's say, 20 youths, they may get around over 10m, it's not a small money.
Sometimes the youth becomes too talent (Ex: Boriello), you still won't lose too much consider to the total money we get from all the 20 transfers. So, in general, co-own is the better way to make money. However, the big team should not apply co-own on their very potential players. The stupid Inter with Adriano was an exception.
For the small teams, if they loan, they have nothing after the players left. They If the loaned player becomes very good, they will return their own club or be loaned to a higher club. have to find other players that they're not sure about the quality then it's risky. In most cases, the loaned players are not good enough to return their club, but still good for the small sides. Therefore the big club won't put a too high price for him then the small side can get the players with an afforded money.
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Aug 24 2008, 06:51 PM
Sometimes the youth becomes too talent (Ex: Boriello), you still won't lose too much consider to the total money we get from all the 20 transfers. So, in general, co-own is the better way to make money. However, the big team should not apply co-own on their very potential players. The stupid Inter with Adriano was an exception.
For the small teams, if they loan, they have nothing after the players left. They If the loaned player becomes very good, they will return their own club or be loaned to a higher club. have to find other players that they're not sure about the quality then it's risky. In most cases, the loaned players are not good enough to return their club, but still good for the small sides. Therefore the big club won't put a too high price for him then the small side can get the players with an afforded money.
Totally agree ... Where have u been buddy ?
Posted by: Bluesummers Aug 25 2008, 07:40 AM
co-ownerships are somethign that needs to be incorporated everywhere in football in order to get these huge fluctuated prices down. THe premiership has no problem paying 20+ mil for english players and grown english talent but not all countries have rich foreign owners. In italy if it weren't for co ownerships a lot of teams would feel no reason to try and even challenge the top, they would do what all other countries do, just create youth and hopefully they will make money. Look at italies top 10 teams last season to any other leagues. They were the most competitive by far and i'm not just talking about the race to the top 4 because thats decided by money and luck, nothing else. How many different teams beat us, look at napoli/ genoa they just advanced to the top div and their kicking @$$.
This is how i would look at co ownerships: Instead of asking our big sugar daddy for money everytime we want players, we should try and sell(co-ownership) the players we dont use like marzoratti/pozzi/abate etc and help pay for transfers like cardaccio and viudez, two players we would use. It is the reason why galliani is such a master in the mercato. Because he knows how to spend as little as possible while still buying the class players. Teams like tottenham who just splash the cash will suffer in a few coming years unless they expand their stadiums and really sell out.
afterall guys silvio didn't pay anythign for this mercato excluding sheva. This was all CL winning and the overall collection of co ownerships.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 25 2008, 10:43 AM
Co-ownerships are terrible in my opinion. It makes clubs look stupid and is basically a loan where you throw your money away in the process. Like we sold Borriello for £1m in a co-ownership.. then bought him back for £6m. We basically threw £5m away! If we had just loaned him out, we do not lose any money, Geno don't have to pay anything to get him so will still be happy that they got a 19 goal player for free, then we can take him back without throwing money away.
I just don't see the benefit in the long run. The idea of two clubs owning one players just doesn't seem right, and is a bit dodgey to me, West Ham were nearly relegated when it was found Tevez and Mascherano were still owned by somebody else as well!
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Aug 25 2008, 10:48 AM
Not really...Genoa only took in Borriello because of the co-ownership. Besides bringing in funds, co-ownership is usually done in the case of players whom you're 70% sure are not good enough to play for you, but you still wish to keep your options open.
Posted by: Bluesummers Aug 25 2008, 10:55 AM
I just don't see the benefit in the long run. The idea of two clubs owning one players just doesn't seem right, and is a bit dodgey to me, West Ham were nearly relegated when it was found Tevez and Mascherano were still owned by somebody else as well!
okay and if he turned out trash then we at least made profit while on loan he would return to us and be useless again. whose gonna pay us for him? co ownerships are excellent most of the time and are a reason why the top teams invest in young italian players while in premiership you can see exactly how much carrick costs and that is just ridicioulous for your own home country.
berba is being sold for 25 million pounds while anywhere else he would barely be sold for 15. flucuation in your league is unhealthy and abnormal and in the end will hurt your countries economy.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 25 2008, 11:08 AM
berba is being sold for 25 million pounds while anywhere else he would barely be sold for 15. flucuation in your league is unhealthy and abnormal and in the end will hurt your countries economy.
If he turned out trash, then we don't get anything, but Genoa don't lose anything either. In the co-ownership deal, Genoa could be paying out money - which they don't have alot of - on a player that is terrible. Now they're stuck with half a crappy players, and even less money. It may benefit the big clubs, but in reality the big clubs can generally take care of themself, it's not good for the smaller clubs. And as you said, it always top clubs to invest in youg italian players, leaving less of the young talent at the bottom clubs. So they lose money and players.
Prices have inflated because clubs have more money. It's nothing to do with taking out loans or anything, clubs physically have more money. I believe each team gets over £50m, so they can afford to pay more, that's all. Instead of the big teams, like they can in Italy, buying promising youngsters for next to nothing in co-ownerships or whatever, the top clubs are forced to pay the big money to get them. Which helps both clubs, the top club gets who they want, and the smaller club gets the money to compensate for losing a future star.
It's a slight myth anyways. Of the top 10 transfers of all-time, only 3 of them are to EPL clubs and none of the top 5 are to an EPL club. Gigi Buffon was bought for over £30m, the record transfer paid by an English keeper is only £9m. Hernan Crespo was bought for £35m after a few good seasons in Italy. Robbie Keane was bought for nearly half of that, depite having 6 or 7 very good EPL seasons. So it's not all the EPL you know, people just like to try and highlight that fact.
Posted by: YoungGun Aug 25 2008, 10:42 PM
Small teams cannot buy many players due to financial issues. However, buying potential kids like a small investment. We can say 9x% the kids will be better year by year because of their young ages. It means if they buy a half contract of a player for 500k, if everything go right, they may get a palyer cost 800-1m at the end of season. In this case, they do not lose anything. BUT, if everything go smoothly, let's say, the player worths 2m at the end of season. They make some money ^^!!!! They can sell back to orginal side, or buy him then continue to develop him. AND IF the player becomes great (as Adriano or Boriello), wow, ^^.
It's also put them under pressure that they have to give chances to co-own players. Because if co-owned player does not play well, he becomes valueless and they'll lose money. Clubs who loan player, they do not have those kinds of pressure. If they don't like the player, they'll put him on the bench.
In Milan's view, surely we more interest in the team who tends to develop our youths. It's co-owned side, not loaned side. Also if you have 20+ players each season who has very little potential to qualified the 1st team, what do you want to do? IMO I want to:
- Make money from them as much as possible because we did not develop youths for nothing.
- Continue developing them and track them.
- In the case we have a great talent, I still have the rights to watch and buy back with cheaper price, consider to the market (we buy only half left, not all).
Hope that explains why co-owned works.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 25 2008, 11:17 PM
I understand what you're saying.. but even still, I see loaning as a much better option. I don't see any advantage that a co-ownership has over a loan, I'm just thankful they don't exist in England.
Posted by: whoarethepatriots Aug 25 2008, 11:24 PM
I just don't see the benefit in the long run. The idea of two clubs owning one players just doesn't seem right, and is a bit dodgey to me, West Ham were nearly relegated when it was found Tevez and Mascherano were still owned by somebody else as well!
If Genoa didnt get him in a co-ownership then he wouldnt have scored 19 goals. Not even a loan would have guaranteed that many goals. Co-ownerships provide security and tell the players that the buying club is going to place confidence in them
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 25 2008, 11:28 PM
Whether it was a loan or co-ownership, it wouldn't have made a difference, he'd have still scored 19 goals. The loaning club obviously has confidence in the player, otherwise, why loan him? What would be the point if you didn't think he was any good? It also means the loaning team doesn't waste any money.
I can't imagine Genoa have heaps of funds, so if they bought half of Boriello, and he was crap, they're stuck with half a rubbish player, and have wasted money on him. Whereas with a loan, they haven't wasted anything. On Milans side, if he performs well, we don't have to look silly buying half of the player back for £6m just months after selling that half for £1m.
I've looked over it for hours and hours on the internet.. and see no upside. Probably the reason it's not used universally, while loaning is.
Posted by: acid911 Aug 26 2008, 12:07 AM
I'm with Kurt on this one. 
Co-ownership maybe works in some instances, but loaning out is the safest route for the club that has the signature of a particular player. Makes less fuss if things go good. Or bad.
Posted by: Bluesummers Aug 26 2008, 12:09 AM
because kurt it puts pressure on the coach to use him when if he was loaned he could bench him as he pleases like with senderos right now and the fact that carlo can bench him and no one will say ****. With co ownership they club somewhat feels obligated to use the player and the player feels obligated to return the favor to the club for investing in him. Look at the players who are loaned compared to the players who are co owned and see who gets more playing time.
Posted by: Bluesummers Aug 26 2008, 12:10 AM
also about the prices. On average the highest valued player should be no higher than 50 million pounds. Anything higher is just stupid and should not exist.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 26 2008, 12:36 AM
I wouldn't know who gets more playing time since Serie A clubs hardly ever loan to each other. But Hernan Crespo was hardly a backup player at either Milan clubs, he featured heavily for both on loan.
It puts pressure on coaches to use them? That's exactly why co-ownership is bad, it's basically big clubs bullying little clubs and saying "You've had to pay money to have one of our players, you better play him so we can see if he's any good so we can just take him back off you - but if he's rubbish, it doesn't matter, you're the one who's wasted money on him, not us".
With loans, no team loses out. If a loaned player is bad? The loaner club will find it more difficult to sell the player, but the loaning club will have had a player who's not been much use to them - neither clubs wastes money. If the loaned player is good? The loaner clubs will have more chance of selling him, or they may decide he's useful enough to keep, but the loaning club has had a good player for a season who's going to have helped them and to make things even better - he was free of charge for the season - both teams benefit, neither team loses money.
I'm sure there's a reason every World in the league uses loaning, and not co-ownerships.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Aug 26 2008, 05:32 AM
Actually...you've got it backwards. It's not the big clubs who insist on the co-ownership, it's the small ones.
See Borriello we gave him up for maybe 1 million(Total player worth= 2 mill). Suppose, he had been average. As in good for Genoa but not good enough for Milan, and we feel that's the best he can be. We can tell Genoa to buy him out, and Genoa will probably calculate that ok, his price on his performance would be now about 6 mill flat. But I already own half of him so to purchase his other half, I just need to pay 3 mill more.
Therefore Genoa end up paying a total of 3+1, i.e. 4 million for Borriello in total. While if he had been loaned with a purchase option, they would have had to pay whatever Milan wanted. So the big club is not bullying here. It's more power to the small guy.
Conversely, if he turned out good enough for Milan, we can get a player back. Someone who we thought wouldn't be too good, but turned out to be a surprise. Like Borriello! It's very rare to see, players who have been co-owned be brought back, unless they were really special. Because a co-ownership deal, unlike a loaning thing, can go on forever, till the player reaches his prime, and a decision is made once and for all.
And going from my earlier point of how it works out to be beneficial to the smaller club, this is exactly why clubs refuse to take great prospects from large clubs in Italy on loan. Loanees are almost always 2nd string players, who are meant to add depth. So a 4th choice player for Juve, might be loaned so he becomes 2nd choice at say Siena.
When both clubs realise they are talking a good prospect, the smaller club (fairly) plays hard ball.
'You're sending him here, to get him trained, to give him first team experience playing in the top level, and we have to pay his wages as well? What's in it for us?'
So if they buy half his contract, then that's it...they now have a vested interest, in developing him, coz now they know they can get him for cheap.
On the other hand, the EPL only has a loan with purchase option, which puts pressure. At the end of the year you have to say a yes or no as regards a purchase, when you want more time to check him out.
Yes, it works differently in EPL, when a player performing well in one season ,gives you enough cash due to a difference in table positions, but in Italy with TV revenues etc.. so low, for a smaller team, finish 9th or 13th doesn't make a huge difference in cash rewards. They need to gain something else.
Posted by: Bluesummers Aug 26 2008, 06:47 AM
See Borriello we gave him up for maybe 1 million(Total player worth= 2 mill). Suppose, he had been average. As in good for Genoa but not good enough for Milan, and we feel that's the best he can be. We can tell Genoa to buy him out, and Genoa will probably calculate that ok, his price on his performance would be now about 6 mill flat. But I already own half of him so to purchase his other half, I just need to pay 3 mill more.
Therefore Genoa end up paying a total of 3+1, i.e. 4 million for Borriello in total. While if he had been loaned with a purchase option, they would have had to pay whatever Milan wanted. So the big club is not bullying here. It's more power to the small guy.
Conversely, if he turned out good enough for Milan, we can get a player back. Someone who we thought wouldn't be too good, but turned out to be a surprise. Like Borriello! It's very rare to see, players who have been co-owned be brought back, unless they were really special. Because a co-ownership deal, unlike a loaning thing, can go on forever, till the player reaches his prime, and a decision is made once and for all.
And going from my earlier point of how it works out to be beneficial to the smaller club, this is exactly why clubs refuse to take great prospects from large clubs in Italy on loan. Loanees are almost always 2nd string players, who are meant to add depth. So a 4th choice player for Juve, might be loaned so he becomes 2nd choice at say Siena.
When both clubs realise they are talking a good prospect, the smaller club (fairly) plays hard ball.
'You're sending him here, to get him trained, to give him first team experience playing in the top level, and we have to pay his wages as well? What's in it for us?'
So if they buy half his contract, then that's it...they now have a vested interest, in developing him, coz now they know they can get him for cheap.
On the other hand, the EPL only has a loan with purchase option, which puts pressure. At the end of the year you have to say a yes or no as regards a purchase, when you want more time to check him out.
Yes, it works differently in EPL, when a player performing well in one season ,gives you enough cash due to a difference in table positions, but in Italy with TV revenues etc.. so low, for a smaller team, finish 9th or 13th doesn't make a huge difference in cash rewards. They need to gain something else.
exactly thank you i hate it when i can't clarfiy things.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Aug 26 2008, 06:50 AM
Do you want me to be your assistant coach?? Or maybe translator? Starting off as translator, worked for Jose...
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 26 2008, 11:13 AM
Jack. You missed out the most important one. Which suggests the power is still with the big clubs, if he turns out good enough for neither? Well the smaller club has already wasted money on buying half of the player, and they know the bigger club isn't going to want him back so they're almost forced to buy the rest of somebody they don't even want.
On the Boriello case: We sold half of him for £1m, we didn't know how good he's turn out and we may not have been expecting anything from him. If he has a bad season, like I said above, Genoa are almpost forced to waste money of the remaining half of Boriello. If he plays well like he did, they've got 0% chance of keeping him because there's no way they can compete with Milan for the rights.
In a loan deal, before loaning him out alot of teams have an option to be for £Xm, so obviously Boriello's value may have been fairly low, since we wouldn't know how he'd turn out. In a normal loan deal, we get our player first team experience and Gena get a guy who's scored 19 goals. With the view to a purchase option, this gives Genoa much more power than the big club. He's purchase option would have been very low, much less than £6m since he's never proved anything in this league, he then goes and has a great season and his worth doubles. But the agreement is that Genoa are to pay even less, and the bigger club can do nothing about it. Which is superb, more power to the smaller team, exactly what this game needs. With loans, the small team never loses and that is the most important thing. With co-ownerships, they basically waste money if he doesn't turn out too well.
I jut still don't see the benefit really.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Aug 26 2008, 11:58 AM
On the Boriello case: We sold half of him for £1m, we didn't know how good he's turn out and we may not have been expecting anything from him. If he has a bad season, like I said above, Genoa are almpost forced to waste money of the remaining half of Boriello. If he plays well like he did, they've got 0% chance of keeping him because there's no way they can compete with Milan for the rights.
In a loan deal, before loaning him out alot of teams have an option to be for £Xm, so obviously Boriello's value may have been fairly low, since we wouldn't know how he'd turn out. In a normal loan deal, we get our player first team experience and Gena get a guy who's scored 19 goals. With the view to a purchase option, this gives Genoa much more power than the big club. He's purchase option would have been very low, much less than £6m since he's never proved anything in this league, he then goes and has a great season and his worth doubles. But the agreement is that Genoa are to pay even less, and the bigger club can do nothing about it. Which is superb, more power to the smaller team, exactly what this game needs. With loans, the small team never loses and that is the most important thing. With co-ownerships, they basically waste money if he doesn't turn out too well.
I jut still don't see the benefit really.
If he had a bad season, nothing changes. Milan see nothing in him to buy out Genoa's half, and vice versa.Either the arrangement continues (as in Pozzi's case) or if Genoa think, this guy is totally cr@p, they can actually cut losses and sell their half to someone else. The same way shares are traded.
Loan to purchase option, means nothing if the player was a flop. Genoa gained nothing...but lost a year's wages being paid to him. On the other hand, if it was a co-ownership, they could sell their half of the contract, maybe to an even smaller team, and thus recuperate at least the wages they 'wasted'.
Similarly if he turns out to be a massive hit, the co-ownership might actually mean, they can sell their part of the deal for a much higher price (than setting the price beforehand), and use the money to buy someone else. Perhaps someone who plays for lesser wages.
I guess, it's because I've grown used to co-ownerships in Serie A. Loaning is often almost used only to add depth. Very rarely are players loaned into first team.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 26 2008, 12:07 PM
Villa had a loan to purchase option on Scott Carson last year, and apparently we didn't pay any of his wages, Liverpool did.
And also, I don't think it's as easy as saying "If he's bad, they can cut their losses and sell their half", who exactly is going to buy?
Anyways. I think this is going to be another me/dst/nationality thing, so we should really stop.
Posted by: Tennie Aug 17 2009, 10:45 PM
Fishdoll 
Abate!
He looks like one of the kids who could really add to the squad.
Forza Ignazio!
Posted by: han2503 Aug 17 2009, 11:20 PM
Abate!He looks like one of the kids who could really add to the squad.
Forza Ignazio!
I sense that fishdoll is walking into fanboy territory when it comes to Abate...
Posted by: Tennie Aug 17 2009, 11:25 PM
Fishdoll is, though he was hovering on fanboy territory for some time.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 18 2009, 12:19 AM
I didn't see the game. Was he really that good? Where did he play today?
Posted by: il_diavolo_mtl Aug 18 2009, 12:34 AM
RM
Posted by: Habitant Aug 18 2009, 04:29 AM
same here, i really like what i've seen from abate, in fact have had a good feeling about him since he's been with the azzurrini. imo he'll never be a world class player but he can def be a milan starting 11 for years to come.
Posted by: dst Aug 18 2009, 09:43 AM
If he learns to be patient and to not rush into challenges he will become a great RB. Hopefully Zambro can teach him a thing or two.
Posted by: Bluesummers Aug 18 2009, 11:32 AM
he can play cm in our system too it seems. Its very free flow.
Posted by: Tennie Aug 18 2009, 11:57 AM
So I just looked through the postmatch comments on acmilan.com. Rino and Leonardo both went out of their way to compliment Abate, and Abate was one of the 3 players interviewed. Looks like it's not just Fishdoll who likes him.
Posted by: il_diavolo_mtl Aug 18 2009, 04:29 PM
i loved all the mid-fielders that game. Rino, Flamini and abate
Posted by: Tennie Aug 27 2009, 08:09 PM
Nice interview with Abate today on acmilan.com (translation by Fishdoll) http://www.acmilan.com/NewsDetail.aspx?idNews=89461
Ignazio, it's 2 days to the derby. How's the preparation going?
'Tension's growing but I'm calm because we're training well and that's the most important thing. The coahc is preparing for the game with Inter very well. It was important to recupreate all the elements because with the squad complete I believe we can play our game.'
You're in your first year with Milan's first team. What's the effect of training with great champions?
'From champions like Seedorf, Ambrosini, Gattuso, Flamini and the others I can only learn, but I'm also convinced of the fact that I have to do my best to make it hard for the coach day by day (fishdoll note: the implication in Italian is that he's trying to make it hard for Leonardo to pick the regular starters above him).'
What sort of Inter do you expect after their home draw against Bari?
'I think it'll be the same Inter: a squad that's very physically strong with great quality going forward. They're very cynical because players like Milito and Eto'o have impressive goalscoring averages, but we also have our cards to play and I think we'll play a good game.'
Do you think Pato can cause problems for the opposition's defense?
'The coach is trying different solutions. Alexandre is a very important player for us, but at the same time there are also other great champions especially in the offensive positions like Huntelaar and Inzaghi who could be decisive. We have different solutions to play and we'll try to do it in the best manner.'
Posted by: Tennie Sep 20 2009, 06:16 PM
Fishdoll's hero.
Posted by: dst Sep 20 2009, 07:39 PM
So fishdoll likes Milan players too?
What I like most about Abate is his confidence.
Posted by: Bluesummers Sep 20 2009, 07:42 PM
What I like most about Abate is his confidence.
Yeah he is very confident. What I liked about him is his drive and never give up attitude. He truly shows that wearing the jersey is no joke.
Posted by: Tennie Sep 20 2009, 08:17 PM
It's clear that playing for Milan really means something to him -- he's been on loan to several clubs and now that he's back, he's REALLY determined. I'm perhaps not at Fishdoll's fanboy level but I really do like the kid and was very happy to see him play well today.
Posted by: Bluesummers Sep 21 2009, 04:40 PM
He has the attitude that this squad need. He knows the value of what it means to play for Milan. Therefore, when he's on the pitch he never stops running. I agree with you tennie, I think the movement around to different clubs around Italy has really done him good.
He is our best Fb right now and hes not even a Fb 
Posted by: Bluesummers Sep 21 2009, 05:05 PM
AC Milan have found the 'new Marcos Cafu' in Ignazio Abate, according to vice-president Adriano Galliani.
Abate was one of the protagonists during the 1-0 win over Bologna, and Galliani feels he can emulate the two-time Brazilian World Cup winner.
"Ignazio will be the new Cafu," the chief is quoted as saying on Tuttomercatoweb.com.
Galliani's comments have led to speculation which suggests the winger will be used in a right-back position with Gianluca Zambrotta moving over to the left.
Voices also claim the Rossoneri's plans for a right-sided, defensive minded player have been shelved given Abate's explosion. Although the player's natural position is more advanced, he could adapt to play deeper in defence.
Why do you open your big mouth...
Posted by: il_diavolo_mtl Sep 21 2009, 05:19 PM
LOL!!!! it was a matter of time before galliani over-glamorized a decent performance by calling someone a great champion, but here i thought he would tut seedorf's performance
Posted by: Danny Oct 4 2009, 07:09 PM
Abate and one other are the only bright spots this season so far. Abate's winning me over - looks determined, can defend as well as go forward, and has the right attributes to be an excellent RB. A much better bet than Zambrotta.
Posted by: Maestro10 Oct 5 2009, 07:03 PM
If there is anything to take away from this piss-poor team, it is Abate
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 5 2009, 07:17 PM
It's the return of Nesta for me.
Posted by: TriniKing_CE Oct 6 2009, 01:34 AM
Both are acceptable positives in this time of negativity!
Posted by: il_diavolo_mtl Oct 6 2009, 01:46 AM
Early team awards go to Abate-Nesta-Silva (before he got hurt)-Storari
Posted by: Danny Oct 7 2009, 05:50 PM
If only he was accompanied by his form of old too though
Looks at about 50% of what he was.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 7 2009, 05:54 PM
Maybe...but it's still holding up our defence.
Posted by: Tennie Oct 7 2009, 06:01 PM
Maybe my memory's fuzzy or Fishdoll slipped something naughty into my coffee but I think this year's Nesta is certainly equivalent to the 2007 Nesta, and probably better. Is the the Lazio Nesta? Nah. THat one is gone.
Posted by: il_diavolo_mtl Oct 7 2009, 06:33 PM
Nesta must have been amazing for Lazio is you think his performances are no where near the Nesta of Old
Posted by: Tennie Oct 7 2009, 06:34 PM
Nesta was on another planet when he played for Lazio, ayup.
Posted by: han2503 Oct 8 2009, 11:37 AM
He was still as good in his first years with us before the injuries started. 02/03, 03/04, 04/05 seasons he was still from another planet. Him and Maldini in the middle was just magic
Posted by: dst Oct 8 2009, 12:11 PM
I think his best years were with us, not with Lazio. He had to run a lot more back then due to Lazio's leaky midfield and he was, unavoidably, making more mistakes. He was more agile though.
Posted by: Tennie Nov 12 2009, 01:13 PM
(from the ticker on acmilan.com's english page)
11/12/2009
MILANELLO - Ignazio Abate, important element of the Rossoneri's squad, was born on November 12, 1986. Today the Milan wing-back celebrates his 23rd birthday. Best wishes!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
Posted by: Zed.D Nov 12 2009, 04:22 PM
Happy 23rd Birthday, Ignazio 
Posted by: Tennie Nov 12 2009, 06:02 PM
Awww. an interview on his birthday.
(from acmilan.com. their translation)
11/12/2009 4:41:00 PM
On the day of his 23rd birthday, Ignazio Abate talked about his happiness at wearing the Rossoneri shirt and the usefulness of the break to recharge the batteries and reprise the league in the best possible way.
MILANELLO - Here are the declarations made today at Milanello by Ignazio Abate, exclusively to Milan Channel's microphones:
Ignazio, first of all happy 23rd birthday.
"Thank you! It seems yesterday that I started playing at Napoli, but time passes for me as well, however I am still young! In these years I had my experiences travelling around Italy, I'm happy about everything I've done because many of them helped me improve and mature. The most important thing, now, is to have returned here at Milanello and to wear this shirt, finally."
There's been a lot of talk of rejuvenation at Milan.
"There's a lot of talk about buying new players. I don't want this team to be underestimated, it's an important group with important values. We are showing it and we hope to continue on this road."
With Ronaldinho you have a great relationship.
"He really is a very nice lad, he has a good heart, and he's very sociable, we talk a lot. He's doing well and we hope he continues like this and continues improving because he's one of those players who, if he's doing well, is able to win games on his own."
Did you need this league break?
"Yes, I needed it because playing for four weeks every Sunday and Wednesday isn't easy. We needed to recover energies and working physically is good for us. Now we are recharging our batteries and we hope to have more good weeks like the past ones. When the league resumes we have an important block of games, we'll have to continue trying to reduce the distance from the top teams and as for the league we can still do it. The journey is long, you need consistency and we have to lose as few points as possible."
Posted by: Bluesummers Nov 12 2009, 09:37 PM
happy birthday! He will become a milan legend, i can feel it
Posted by: Fishdoll Feb 11 2010, 02:16 PM
(from acmilan.com)
11/02/2010
L'A.C. Milan comunica che i calciatori Ignazio Abate e Luca Antonini hanno prolungato i rispettivi contratti con la Società fino al 30 Giugno 2014.
Contract renewed through 2014.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Feb 11 2010, 05:41 PM
Any way we can dig out their new salaries? Or do we need to wait for FM '11?
Posted by: Danny Feb 11 2010, 09:14 PM
FM has a LOT to answer for...
Posted by: Bluesummers Feb 12 2010, 12:41 AM
Well My guess is that they were bumped up to the average salary of milan which is probably around 45K.
Abate was making 20 and Antonini was making 25 before.
Posted by: Fishdoll Feb 12 2010, 12:50 AM
Got sources for those figures, Blue? Just curious as the figures for Antonini I remember seeing last year on tuttomercatoweb (when he asked for and didn't get a raise) were about half that. The figures discussed then were tha the was in the 500k/year range. No clue on Abate's wages.
Posted by: Bluesummers Feb 12 2010, 12:53 AM
no i dont, i can look for it. I remember seeing them before somewhere though. Antonini's previous wage was around 700k or something like that I recall. He's probably getting 1.2 or 1.5 now. With this extention i'm also guessing that we have found our two full backs for next season
So gattuso has dropped from 4m-> 2.5 with his extention.
These two boys have gotten an increase.
Pato has gotten an increase.
Ronaldinho is next i'm guessing. He'll probably drop from 6.5 to 5m.
Galliani is doing a pretty good job so far, I'm quite happy we aren't play players like barca does. Messi 12m, Ibra 11m, Henry 8m, Xavi 8m, Iniesta 8m, Puyol 8m. Just ridiculous!!!
Posted by: Bluesummers Feb 12 2010, 01:03 AM
Now this isn't perfectly accurate but its pretty close. Pato is not making 1m anymore. Abate and antonini are making more now. Antonini was higher than abate from other sources i've seen in the past. Storari makes 1m now.
Ronaldinho makes 6.5 not 7.5.
Hunt makes 4m.
Oddo makes 4m.
Gattuso now makes 2.5 with his extention.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: These may be close but not all figures are 100% accurate.
Prandelli - Fiorentina €1.8m
Ranieri - Roma €1.6
Leonardo - Milan €1.2m
Ferrara - Juventus €1.2m
Gasperini - Genoa €1.2m
Donadoni - Napoli €1.2m
Del Neri - Sampdoria €0.9m
Guidolin - Parma €0.9m
Zenga - Palermo €0.85m
Giampaolo - Siena €0.8m
Ballardini - Lazio €0.75m
Allegri - Cagliari €0.65m
Marino - Udinese €0.6m
Papadopulo - Bologna €0.6m
Ventura - Bari €0.45m
Di Carlo - Chievo €0.45
Gregucci - Atalanta €0.3m
Atzori - Catania €0.15m
Ruotolo - Livorno €0.1m
source: all pictures, words are from gazetta dello sport!!
Posted by: Fishdoll Feb 12 2010, 01:11 AM
Thanks for tracking that down, Blue!
Posted by: servbot Feb 12 2010, 02:41 AM
11 million .... euros...for a manager? And he's second?
who's first? I don't think there's a manager salary anywhere near that in NBA, NFL, MLB or NHL! Maybe 6 or 7m in USD.
Posted by: Patinho Feb 12 2010, 03:49 AM
Good stuff man. How much does pato make now because your right its not 1m
Posted by: Bluesummers Feb 12 2010, 03:54 AM
who's first? I don't think there's a manager salary anywhere near that in NBA, NFL, MLB or NHL! Maybe 6 or 7m in USD.
The first is Luiz felipe scolari, who works in a club in uzbekistan. He earns 16m a season.
Posted by: Fishdoll Feb 12 2010, 04:36 AM
I think the Gazzetta lists are from the start of the season. Pato's had his salary bumped up since then.
Posted by: MizNelson Feb 12 2010, 05:01 AM
It'd be nice if Dinho played like he was worth 6.5m (!) from day one.
Posted by: Bluesummers Feb 12 2010, 07:32 AM
yeah i agree. He's supposidly getting a pay cut though. He'll only be making 5m a season if he extends his contract. Now if we can get Pirlo a pay cut, we'll be doing extremely well.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Feb 12 2010, 07:35 AM
Posted by: Bluesummers Feb 12 2010, 07:36 AM
You dont' like pirlo getting a pay cut?
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Feb 12 2010, 07:45 AM
No I'm thrilled about it. Why in the world should arguably the best deep lying playmaker in the world play for the same amount as his counterparts in Alonso and Xavi.
In fact let's cut it down even further from that twerp Michael Carrick. If Carrick is worth 4 million a season, Pirlo should be given only 3.
*mumble* *mumble*
Posted by: Bluesummers Feb 12 2010, 07:47 AM
In fact let's cut it down even further from that twerp Michael Carrick. If Carrick is worth 4 million a season, Pirlo should be given only 3.
*mumble* *mumble*
No silvio remember. Do you want any new transfers?
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Feb 12 2010, 07:52 AM
Let's sell him outright..instead of selling him short.
I'd understand if he were a 33+ year old being kept on for sentimentality and coz he can occasionally pull magic out of his hat where others can't (like Zee/Becks/Pippo) and then we offer a new contract for him to end out his career while earning less. But that's not the case.
He's been one of our best players in that dominant run of ours..and he was good in the past couple of games as well. He's also been one of the most overplayed.
Posted by: Bluesummers Feb 12 2010, 07:55 AM
I'd understand if he were a 33+ year old being kept on for sentimentality and coz he can occasionally pull magic out of his hat where others can't (like Zee/Becks/Pippo) and then we offer a new contract for him to end out his career while earning less. But that's not the case.
He's been one of our best players in that dominant run of ours..and he was good in the past couple of games as well. He's also been one of the most overplayed.
I'm not saying sell him. I'm saying shorten our wage bill. Dinho should be next too, he doesn't deserve over 4m imo. The only player who deserves to be earning 5m is Nesta.
Posted by: dst Feb 12 2010, 04:03 PM
We're talking about the most over-hyped person in the world. Imagine double the hype surrounding all the block-buster movies ever made multiplied by the number of times he's praised himself in public (over 1,000) and you have the picture.He is good though.
Posted by: Fishdoll Jul 30 2010, 11:28 PM
Photo of Ignazio in this month's GQ Italia: http://www.kickette.com/files/2010/07/poseoff.jpg
Posted by: Dracoris Jul 30 2010, 11:40 PM
how masculine
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Jul 31 2010, 05:39 AM
He's got a bottle of milk next to him and a come hither look. Weird!
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Jan 25 2011, 09:31 AM
An excellent post from another forum which copies a comment from goal.com
By dostoevsky:
Our fullback situation has often been highlighted in discussions concerning Europe as Milan's major weakness, combined with the average age of our midfield, so I think it's appropriate to discuss Abate's progress now, especially given that we are in the middle of the January transfer window and people's minds are ticking over searching for the perfect addition to our squad, when we search for new defenders should a serious alternative to our right back slot also be considered?
Firstly, in order to be considered a first class right back Abate must address the issue of Gattuso dependency. Ringhio, our faithful warrior, has to play two positions in effect during some matches, which whilst strengthening our team through his incredible work rate and ensuring through example that defence is the job of the team not the back four must remind us that Abate must mature and prepare for a time when he may have a less savage midfield ahead of him.
Gattuso's cover extends beyond the positional responsibilities of a player such as Perotta when Riise is bombing up the flank for Roma, or even the way a defensive midfielder such as Palombo or Zanetti will drift across to his full back because of the incredible success that Gattuso has in successfully halting a push up the flank when compared to the number of challenges made.
Gattuso will take every opportunity to himself challenge any player trying to take on Abate, also making a two on one in Milan's favour to allow either Gattuso or Abate to cover in case over commitment is made and to act as a sweeper when the battle for possession usually ends in the ball being knocked clear but not out of danger, whilst also preventing the backline from losing their shape - the latter a signficant point in considering Antonini's position, where many of his poorer matches occur when Seedorf or Prince are occupying the left midfield slot, providing less support positionally and in themselves recovering balls.
Such activity from Gattuso is not tactically uncommon, however the distinguishment I wish to make, and you may disagree with me on this, is that the effectiveness of the cover provided masks Abate's true success during each game, that what is being masked is insecurity from Abate in situations when pressure from the opposition has neither been prolonged nor involves great numbers, and that whilst Abate is a superior defender to Antonini, the difference has been exacerbated by the support offered to each fullback. If Antonini were protected by Gattuso and Abate by Seedorf - or Prince, though I do not wish to unnecessarily criticise Prince as he has been shifted around our midfield constantly and is still learning and growing; his tendency to disappear in a match as well as his understanding of position and movement will increase as he returns and plays more (this sentence is waaay too long) - then our fullbacks would appear far more equal. Abate is still undoubtedly the stronger fullback and has performed a fine job of putting in consistent performances, covering for his team mates in defence and making a minimal number of mistakes across the entire season thus far. However Abate must learn how to hold a flank without help if necessary, especially for when we may need to sacrifice Gattuso for another forward in order to chase a game, which leads me to my next point.
Abate is a fullback well equipped to deal with pace and strength, however it is against players who rely on close control, deception and changes in acceleration to bypass opponents that Abate still struggles, as he is too easily turned and blind sighted, something that will ultimately only be identified as a major flaw against excellent opposition. However this has been highlighted not as a glaring flaw but as an area that needs to be addressed in training in order for Abate to progress another level. Cassano and Robinho, our two most skillful dribblers who like to turn in from the left, must be used to twist and turn Abate, under the watch of Zambrotta, Nesta and hopefully Maldini, until he becomes more comfortable with handling the pressure of a skillful winger without the back up plan of a defensive midfielder if he overcommits and is left for dead.
Abate has simply not faced opponents such as Menez often enough in competition in his short career at right back and lacking this education normally suffered by a much younger player and often in less stressful situations than playing for the league leaders we must ensure that he is run ragged in training. This weakness is the major deficiency masked by Gattuso's help but also the only signficant reason to fear Ringhio's absence from the midfield in a big game. When Abate masters a tricky dribbler we will witness the end of his Gattuso dependency.
Thirdly Abate must improve in the air and particularly focus on his man marking in the box, a responsibility he has at times been relieved of I have noticed, often waiting on the periphery of the area during a set piece. He has shown a marked improvement this year, aided by his ggressive nature, however it is an important facet of his play that must be developed. Where as players such as Bonera are too timid to attack the ball or even Thiago Silva who is almost too clean at times - though he makes up for this in most areas - Abate has the potential to be a fantastic man marker in the box if his aggression and concentration are well trained.
Abate's general play in his own penalty area has improved despite his high profile mistake against Roma - unfairly dwelled upon as it directly led to a defeat - and he will continue to grow in confidence with experience and time. In effect we have a very promising defender, however the following questions need to be asked.
How ready is Abate to face a team such as Barcelona or Arsenal, or even perhaps Germany for the national team? An excellent performance against Real Madrid may have won confidence from the fans, however was the failure of Ronaldo to beat Abate down to a growth in maturity or a lack of ideas from the Madrid winger?
Given that only against excellent opposition Abate's weaknesses may be exposed, do you believe that the appropriate steps will be taken in training to improve Ignazio as a defender? Will his eventual education in big game situations be enough to improve Abate gradually without costing Milan too much? Would the introduction of a new right back able to provide signficant competition to Abate hasten improvements or would a new first team option be a good idea if available for a reasonable price?
Or am I simply being too critical and over analysing the situation? Abate has done a fantastic job and I personally think that he will continue to improve to cover his weaknesses, however I wrote this as I believe it's important to recognise where he needs to improve but also to remind ourselves that he is learning a position and must be forgiven mistakes as he is a player who learns and improves based upon his past errors.
There is also the question of his offensive qualities which need work. His crossing is incredibly inconsistent however again this is something that merely needs to be addressed in training and will improve as he plays more and our attack settles and whilst our midfield and defence have been fairly stable the forward trio rarely play more than three games in a row without a signficant change and the incredibly varied nature of Cassano, Pato, Robinho and Boateng mean that Abate and Antonini have not had a clear idea of how to work with our strike force when advancing forward.
Both fullbacks however need to be more confident in their abilities and attempt to terrify by heading for the byline. Abate in particular can often achieve more through ball carrying than attempting a passing game with an attack that has not yet fully established an understanding and a permanent style of play. A twenty-five yard burst from Abate can do more to cause an accidental tear in the shape of a back line or invite movement into the box from our midfield than the current movements from the back. Not only Abate but Antonini look to be suffering from stage fright whenever they go forward and a bit more self belief is necessary, otherwise all their work in training is worthless without at least the courage to take someone on.
Posted by: William405 Apr 1 2011, 03:00 PM
Blog: Abate turn
As Milan face a season-defining derby with Inter, Ignazio Abate prepares for his most significant challenge to his growing reputation as a top full-back. Rob Paton writes
In Milan’s recent faltering, one remaining constant has been Ignazio Abate’s progress at right-back. Performances against Tottenham and Palermo have been in marked contrast to that of the team, and Saturday’s clash with Inter proves significant.
Originally a right-midfielder, Abate’s work on loan at Empoli and Torino convinced Milan to keep the player for 2009-10. With limited options in defence and minimal room for wide midfielders in Leonardo’s 4-3-1-2 shape, Abate was subsequently pushed to right-back, a position he had occasionally played as a youth and during his time in Turin, but was far from technically proficient in.
Abate’s first full season here wasn’t without teething problems, reflective of the necessity and immediacy of the switch, but he has grown to understand the role. Indeed his progress towards the end of the campaign convinced Milan to extend his contract, whilst his work with Massimiliano Allegri sees him on the verge of the national team, and a growing central presence in the dressing room, and played nowhere but at right-back now.
Whilst there is an element of truth to the fact Milan’s added defensive weight in centre-midfield under Allegri has had a positive affect on Abate’s game, it does the 24-year-old’s individual work a disservice. This season has seen a tempering of the boy’s natural attacking tendencies in favour of a more mature defensive manner. Where Abate’s pace, composure on the ball, crossing and shooting ability are useful assets for an otherwise narrow Rossoneri attack, his defensive game has vastly improved this term, notable aspects including dealing with crosses and diagonal balls, his physical handling of opponents and his tactical positioning.
Added to this, Abate’s attacking movement is now more calculated. Working in tandem with left-back Luca Antonini, the duo’s role has been refined under Allegri. Where with Leonardo their support-play was as a secondary, often sporadic outlet, Allegri has patterns of play based entirely on their work-rate down the flanks.
Abate’s turning point is thought to be Cristiano Ronaldo’s visit with Real Madrid in November. Returning from injury to team up with Gennaro Gattuso, his performance was a noteworthy positive from the draw. Before that game the full-back had started just twice under Allegri in 12 games, since then it is 19 starts from a possible 26.
Such has been the player’s form this season, and recently in contrast to his team, those around the player’s camp believe he is close to earning a first international call-up, with many at the club surprised he missed the Slovenia and Ukraine squad.
As Milan face their biggest hurdle yet in chasing the Scudetto, the right-back will face his toughest challenge too. Not only will he line-up against one of Europe’s strongest right-back exponents in Douglas Maicon, but any doubts over his own standing in the role will be fully tested by Inter’s most in-form player this season, Samuel Eto’o.
Abate also carries memories into the fixture. Firstly of last season’s derby where his mistake saw Diego Milito score the first in a 2-0 defeat, and then of this term’s Week 12 derby where two needless yellow cards saw him sent off – the first for pulling back Eto’o, the second for pushing Goran Pandev.
This is also arguably the first big game Abate goes into expected to perform well. Eto’o and Co will guarantee him a psychological and physical challenge, and it will be a mark of how far he has come should he meet it.
Football-italia.
I hope he plays well,and get a national call up.I think he's good defensively,and average in attack.Funny,cause it used to be the opposite.Forza Abate!
Posted by: amancik Aug 13 2011, 05:46 AM
Saturday 13 August, 2011
Abate waits for Azzurri chance
Milan full-back Ignazio Abate is determined to earn his place in the Italy squad. “I don’t have as much quality, so always have to go 100kph.”
The 24-year-old started his career as a winger and was transformed into a full-back with the Rossoneri, but is yet to earn a call-up from Cesare Prandelli.
“I am a lad who has to give 100 per cent at all times to improve, because perhaps I don’t have as much quality as Alessandro Nesta or Thiago Silva, so I always have to go 100kph,” he told Sky Sport.
“I have ambitious targets with this team and haven’t won nearly as much as my Milan teammates, so I and the other youngsters in the side have 3,000 more reasons to seek trophies, including the Champions League.
“There are many great full-backs who are doing well at club level and therefore the Italy squad. I just need to keep working and make it difficult for the Coach to drop me every Sunday.”
Abate has had a remarkable career progression considering he has only recently become a full-back.
“This position means you need to be concentrated for all 90 minutes and see many things from another angle.”
Football-italia.net
He has definitely grown into an impressive player over the last two seasons. My respect for him has grown after this statement.
Posted by: dst Aug 13 2011, 09:05 AM
"perhaps I don’t have as much quality as Alessandro Nesta or Thiago Silva"
perhaps?
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 13 2011, 09:23 AM
Respect for the true words. He's managed to improve, but still isn't must learn many things.
Posted by: dst Aug 13 2011, 11:02 AM
he's become a better defender but in attack, the only thing he improved is that he now runs straight ahead like an idiot only half as often as he used to.
Posted by: Dracoris Aug 13 2011, 03:13 PM
He was integral in the build up play in both goals against Inter and is the best crosser we have on the right. I'd say currently he's doing ok in attack.
Posted by: il_diavolo_mtl Aug 13 2011, 05:18 PM
While I agree that he has often darted quite linearly up-field, I have noted a significant improvement is his offensive organization, i think he needs to keep improving and who knows, maybe some time soon he'll have the confidence to take a shot... Until then his passing/crossing in the final third combined with our forwards' movement in the box and Ibra magic was essentially our main source of goals throughout the entire year. I hope to see him improve and get the NT nod. That being said i honestly think that Maggio is much better.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Nov 8 2011, 07:13 PM
Ignazio Abate is determined to show he deserves his call-up to the latest Italy squad and has rejected talk of being just a short-term solution.
Milan right-back Abate received his first call-up under Cesare Prandelli at the weekend for the international friendlies with Poland and Uruguay.
Azzurri CT Prandelli commented that Abate must develop a greater consistency to his play if he wants to be considered for Euro 2012 contention.
Milan Vice-President Adriano Galliani responded that the youngster has fully merited his call-up, but also suggested that he cannot be used as merely a stopgap.
Abate himself has now commented on the call-up and believes he can become a long-term member of the team.
“I do not feel like a stopgap, I see this call as an opportunity for myself. It will be up to me to prove that I deserve in future to be in the new squad.
“Galliani has always believed in my qualities, I do not feel I am in the centre of a dispute between the club and the national team.
“They are very serene, Galliani has made statements about me, but it remains up to me to merit the position with the Azzurri.”
The converted right-sided midfielder took time to thank the Milan Coaches he has worked under, Leonardo and Massimiliano Allegri.
“How did I get here? For me, the first to play me at right-back was Leonardo, who found this role after I was successful in another as a youth.
“Then came Allegri, to whom I owe a lot, who made me work hard every day to learn the defensive phase and the mechanisms of the back-four.
“It was not easy because I was a winger and was accustomed to think only about attack.”
http://www.football-italia.net/node/12657
Posted by: X-Offender Nov 12 2011, 02:53 PM
Abate makes 25 today. Happy birthday Turbo Ignazio! 
Posted by: William405 Nov 12 2011, 04:07 PM
Happy birthday speedy! xD
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 15 2012, 09:59 PM
Poor tonight, beaten for both goals. Shame with our lack of money he'll be here for good.
Posted by: X-Offender Aug 16 2012, 01:37 AM
It was Balzaretti in the first goal.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 16 2012, 02:32 AM
Was it? I'll take your word for it.
Posted by: han2503 Aug 9 2014, 12:25 PM
Bumped
Posted by: han2503 Sep 18 2014, 03:31 PM
“My agent is talking with the club. Milan knows my requirements, Galliani is satisfied with my work and a solution will be found.
“Then there are many factors that could change things. What hurt me was that I would read the figures I have asked for in order to sign. Figures that are far removed from reality.”
Hopefully his and De Jong's situations are resolved ASAP. They shouldn't let this even linger until January because then you're inviting on other teams to offer them deals.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 18 2014, 05:20 PM
Yeah you should never let it run under two years really. Unless they are a bad, unwanted, player.
Posted by: han2503 Sep 18 2014, 05:25 PM
Agreed, however this seems to be our new "strategy"
Can't wait until they renew Bonera's and Abbiati's in the summer...
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 18 2014, 05:30 PM
He earns €1.5 million if I'm not mistaken. If his request is below the €2.2-2.3 million figure, then he should be given an extension. Otherwise, sorry, you're simply asking too much Igna.
Posted by: han2503 Sep 18 2014, 06:06 PM
It's been reported he wants 2m.
But really, I'd go as far as 3m if we're really pushed before applying the cut off. I don't think we can get a RB as good as him with the little money we can spend on players and it's not like quality RBs are growing on trees, and even if they were, we wouldn't even be able to afford the fertilizer for that tree
So atm I think we should at the least try our best to keep hold of our best assets on this team
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 18 2014, 09:53 PM
It's interesting how a player can change when he feels motivated and wanted by the coach. Both Abate and Honda (especially Abate) were marginalized by Seedorf, but Pippo gave them their confidence back and so far they've been two of our best performers. Abate with two assists in two games even!
Posted by: acid911 Sep 18 2014, 10:04 PM
Honda's case is a little different, though. Last season he had to share the spotlight and the pitch with Kaka, and not to mention Balotelli was still here creating havoc. With both gone, the guy has come into his own. I just hope this form continues, and Honda is able to build upon this. He's a good chap, this guy.
But like I said, you need half a season to gauge any player these days. At least six months.
Posted by: han2503 Sep 18 2014, 10:27 PM
Agreed, especially about Abate.
Abate has been very consistent for us as a defensive performer since 10/11 imo (minus when he meets Milito
), no he hasn't been great at assisting but I think for that you have to look at the tactics we played as well, it's not like any of our other FBs have half decent assist stats either. It's kind of hard to make an assist when there's no one to aim your cross at in the box half the time.And yeah, he definitely struggled a lot under Seedorf, there clearly was some sort of rift there, although he was always one of our most consistent performers under Allegri who also always trusted him and was the one who really helped in giving him his chance and helped mature him as a real RB. I think this is one area where Allegri excelled, Abate finally coming into his own as a FB was under him as he was a total mess and liability during both Carlo's and Leonardo's reign and he was also the one who plucked DS out of the Primavera and gave him his chance
Posted by: acid911 Sep 18 2014, 10:55 PM
Abate has been very consistent for us as a defensive performer since 10/11 imo (minus when he meets Milito), no he hasn't been great at assisting but I think for that you have to look at the tactics we played as well, it's not like any of our other FBs have half decent assist stats either. It's kind of hard to make an assist when there's no one to aim your cross at in the box half the time.
And yeah, he definitely struggled a lot under Seedorf, there clearly was some sort of rift there, although he was always one of our most consistent performers under Allegri who also always trusted him and was the one who really helped in giving him his chance and helped mature him as a real RB. I think this is one area where Allegri excelled, Abate finally coming into his own as a FB was under him as he was a total mess and liability during both Carlo's and Leonardo's reign and he was also the one who plucked DS out of the Primavera and gave him his chance
Fanboy.
Not a mention of Honda.
Posted by: han2503 Sep 18 2014, 11:27 PM
Not a mention of Honda.Well, because I think with Honda it was very many factors which were effecting him negatively last season.
I don't think there was a particular problem with Seedorf tbh.
The man has been playing football constantly since before the Confed Cup, he came to Milan after playing that and a full season with CSKA in the Russian league, played another half of a season with us, went to the World Cup and came back in early pre-season. Add all that with coming to Milan while we were going through a horrible moment when the entire team was under performing, in fighting in the upper management, 3 coaching changes and being played out of position on top of all that.
The man is just an amazing professional and I always truly believed that he would come good, even when people were already starting to turn their back on him and labelling him a failure and only a marketing asset
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 19 2014, 12:19 AM
Yep, same here. Never lost my faith in him.
Posted by: acid911 Sep 19 2014, 12:31 AM
Agreed with everything that's said above. And I was, of course, joking. I was on the Abate bandwagon, until he stopped developing. Always wanted him to start ahead of other seniors we had at that time. Now? He's one of the better players we have, period. For what it's worth, one of the first names on the team sheet.
As for Honda, again, another player that I wanted Milan to sign, ages ago. The proof is in the posts. I actually factored in the untapped marketing potential, which we still don't seem to be going after, in the Asian region. Honda is, for all intents and purposes, the best footballer in Asia.
And well, he's a great type of guy to have in a team. Keeps his head down, and gives his best, every time.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 19 2014, 09:38 AM
I love Honda. He is my new favourite Milan player. Might be getting a jersey.
Posted by: KillerMax Sep 19 2014, 11:21 AM
Meh, I prefer Mazda...
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 19 2014, 11:36 AM
Cheesy.
Posted by: Danny Sep 20 2014, 01:44 PM
I think Honda's better than the catastrophe he was last season, but I can't say he's totally won me over yet. Still feel he doesn't influence matches as much as I hoped he would, and for me I'm not yet subscribing to the love in over him now.
He's improved, yes, but not enough for me to want him to start every match.
Menez proved me wrong, hopefully Honda can too.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 24 2014, 12:39 AM
4 assists in 4 games now. Good job
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 24 2014, 12:58 AM
Could have been 5 in 4 games if Torres had scored that chance in the second half. Abate the new Iniesta.
Posted by: Danny Jan 6 2015, 01:58 PM
Extension agreed.
Posted by: han2503 Jan 6 2015, 02:14 PM
Where did you read this?
Extending hs contract would mean one less headache. De Jong and Mexes should be priorities as well imo. The others who are on their last year should be let go
Posted by: Danny Jan 6 2015, 08:05 PM
Extending hs contract would mean one less headache. De Jong and Mexes should be priorities as well imo. The others who are on their last year should be let go
I read 'Abate has agreed to a renewal of his deal' on Twitter - think it was Football Italia. Panicked though - thought it read a 'removal' of his deal.
Posted by: d'Arc.LP Feb 12 2015, 08:24 PM
Abate set for new Milan deal
By Football Italia staff
Full-back Ignazio Abate has reportedly agreed a contract extension with Milan.
His current deal is due to expire on June 30, but Sky Sport Italia claim a deal has now been struck.
The 28-year-old grew up in the Milan youth academy and had loan spells at Napoli, Piacenza, Modena, Empoli and Torino.
Abate suffered from numerous injury problems in recent years and this season managed 16 appearances between Serie A and the Coppa Italia.
He had been pushed down the pecking order under Clarence Seedorf, but Pippo Inzaghi put him back in the starting XI when fit.
Posted by: han2503 Feb 12 2015, 10:32 PM
By Football Italia staff
Full-back Ignazio Abate has reportedly agreed a contract extension with Milan.
His current deal is due to expire on June 30, but Sky Sport Italia claim a deal has now been struck.
The 28-year-old grew up in the Milan youth academy and had loan spells at Napoli, Piacenza, Modena, Empoli and Torino.
Abate suffered from numerous injury problems in recent years and this season managed 16 appearances between Serie A and the Coppa Italia.
He had been pushed down the pecking order under Clarence Seedorf, but Pippo Inzaghi put him back in the starting XI when fit.
They've been reporting this every few months, yet still nothing is confirmed...
Posted by: acid911 Feb 19 2015, 12:06 PM
Fingers crossed. A player we can't afford to lose, he is pretty much a senior now. Or will be in a couple of years. Although there are times when I think he can do a lot better on the pitch, Abate at least provides us with the type of stability that we've not seen at the club in years.
Hopefully we get some good news soon here, we need that.
Posted by: han2503 Feb 19 2015, 09:27 PM
A player we can't afford to lose, he is pretty much a senior now. Or will be in a couple of years. Although there are times when I think he can do a lot better on the pitch, Abate at least provides us with the type of stability that we've not seen at the club in years.Hopefully we get some good news soon here, we need that.
Too bad that he seems to have become so injury prone over these last 2 years or so.
Posted by: acid911 Feb 19 2015, 09:29 PM
Indeed.
Was, and still is, one of the players I liked in this Milan.
Posted by: X-Offender Feb 19 2015, 09:42 PM
Yeah, these recurring injuries are becoming a bit pesky.
Posted by: han2503 Aug 8 2016, 05:57 PM
Bumped. Anyone think he should be captain ahead of Montolivo?
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 8 2016, 05:58 PM
Anyone but Montolivo. Sadly, he's a hothead. I'd seriously give the armband to De Sciglio.
Posted by: han2503 Aug 8 2016, 06:03 PM
Abate?
I don't really think he's a hothead, he's passionate sure, but he doesn't lose his head all that often. Plus I don't see those leadership qualities in DS either
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 12 2017, 12:46 AM
Anyone cares to comment?
Posted by: han2503 Jul 12 2017, 08:05 AM
Anyone cares to comment?
I'm afraid I have nothing nice to say
what happened to his eyes exactly?
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 12 2017, 08:49 AM
I dunno. But I've read he'll have to wear these goggles like Davids.
Posted by: Danny Jul 12 2017, 11:42 AM
He was hit in the face around Feb/March by the ball and had resultant eye problems which were what ruled him out for the rest of the season.
He now wears these like, as Pippo says, Davids did - but not for the same reason I gather.
He looks worryingly like David Guetta but health is health at the end of the day. Can't take chances.
Posted by: X-Offender Jul 12 2017, 12:46 PM
Glasses and long hair. Stylish Abate yo!
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