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Posted by: han2503 Oct 27 2014, 05:39 PM

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 27 2014, 08:52 PM

Don't know what to expect from this game. We had the chance to prove our progress and we failed it.

Mediaset has the same line-up from Sunday. One thing's for certain, if Pippo plays the same midfield again then I ain't watching the game.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 29 2014, 02:39 PM

Some changes are bound to be made.

Is van Ginkel available?

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 02:58 PM

Yep, everyone aside from Monto is fit

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 29 2014, 05:08 PM

I see different lineups posted everywhere. Guess no one knows who'll play tonight except for Pippo.

Posted by: William405 Oct 29 2014, 07:01 PM

I almost forgot about this for a SECOND!! So glad I didn't(I might regret that)

Forza Milan.

Posted by: William405 Oct 29 2014, 07:02 PM

He said he's going to switch things up, I think he'll do..let's see.

Posted by: Danny Oct 29 2014, 07:44 PM

GDS:

Lopez, Abate, Rami, Alex, MDS, Muntari, De Jong, Bonaventura, El-Sha, Torres, Honda

If true, yet another predictably frustrating lineup with change where it's not needed in defence (and no change where it is), confusing change in midfield, and a messy forward line.

Meh. Fucking meh.

Pippo's starting to really wind me up.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 29 2014, 08:04 PM

Abbiati ©; Abate, Alex, Rami, De Sciglio; Bonaventura, De Jong, Muntari; Honda, Torres, El Shaarawy.

bench: Lopez, Agazzi, Zapata, Bonera, Albertazzi, Essien, Poli, Van Ginkel, Saponara, Niang, Menez, Pazzini.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 08:21 PM

Muntari the only blemish in that line-up imo

Posted by: William405 Oct 29 2014, 08:22 PM

Should be more than enough against Cagliari.

Posted by: William405 Oct 29 2014, 08:22 PM

I have no idea why he's always the first on the team sheet.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 08:25 PM

I think Pippo sees him as "extra cover", same goes with Allegri in the past.

Only faulty thing with that reasoning is he's a liability to our defensive game and offensive one as well because he is the most idiotic play I've ever witnessed in a Milan shirt

Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 29 2014, 08:27 PM

Yep, though I also prefer Lopez to Abbiati.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 08:49 PM

Rami clears off the line!

WTF are they doing???

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 29 2014, 09:08 PM

Bonaventura has been utter shite so far.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 09:10 PM

What a f@ck up in defence, why did Abbiati fly out?

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 29 2014, 09:11 PM

And Abbiati f*cks up again.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 29 2014, 09:12 PM

Oh, look, Rami losing his man again...

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 09:13 PM

I want to know why they let him cross there. without anyone even putting him under pressure, I think Alex and Abate are also a bit at fault there

Out midfield is just so flat!

Bona needs to be on the left side, he seems cut out from the midfield, Muntari is his usual self, don't even want to waste time getting into that one and the attack is just totally cut out of the game because we have no midfield

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 09:14 PM

The cross was great, yep he's at fault too, but so are Alex and Abate that didn't even try to close down the player that crossed and Abbiati for flying out.

And if you think Zapata has never lost his man then I don't know how to have this convo with you...

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 29 2014, 09:17 PM

Please someone buy SES from us.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 09:19 PM

Our midfield is totally cut off from our defence which is making it incredibly easy for them to cut through us

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 09:20 PM

BONAVENTURA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 09:20 PM

Lol! We're so lucky!!!

Posted by: William405 Oct 29 2014, 09:21 PM

Wow.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 29 2014, 09:21 PM

HOLY CRAP!

Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 29 2014, 09:22 PM

W-H-A-T A G-O-A-L !!!!

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 29 2014, 09:25 PM

How is that not a yellow card for their #32??? Ridiculous.

Posted by: William405 Oct 29 2014, 09:27 PM

Lol at that scene:

Muntari gets the ball, you can see Inzaghi tell him to pass it forward to Sharaawy. Muntari dribbles and loses the ball..

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 09:27 PM

Yep, did he even see it as a foul??

Totally hacked down SES

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 29 2014, 09:28 PM

Yeah, I noticed it as well. Brainless Muntari is brainless.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 09:29 PM

Muntari hacking people down while already on a yellow is the definition of stupid

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 09:29 PM

And yet, Pippo still picks him, just baffles the mind

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 09:30 PM

Once again, we do not have the better possession

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 09:32 PM

Our attack would be so much better if Pippo made a slight adjustment and moved Honda behind SES and Torres. They all seem so disjointed

Posted by: William405 Oct 29 2014, 09:33 PM

Why are we punting the ball to Torres like he's Ibra?

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 09:43 PM

Because we have no midfield, our attack is just completely detached from our midfield and our defence isn't getting any cover from our midfield.

Bona imo has been okay, nothing great, he's mostly just aimlessly passing it around without purpose. De Jong is a bit iffy as well today imo, Muntari... Don't want to even talk about him

SES is just out of it, he's not doing well when he gets the ball either, but that could be attributed to him always getting it on the line with no one to pass to aside from back to DS, Honda and Abate who are our usual outlets in attack are also very quite, Torres has been trying to feed off of breadcrumbs up there and the stupid long ball

Fact is we have no movement, no ideas, no speed to our attacks, we don't have the upper hand in possession and we're not even close to getting in behind a Zeman side that are notoriously weak defensively

All of these points are linked through the midfield which has been p!ss poor.

Take off Muntari, put Bona on that side and bring in Van Ginkel or Poli instead of Muntari to play on the right.

If SES still can't get into it, switch him out with Menez.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 29 2014, 09:46 PM

+1

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 29 2014, 09:47 PM

We did played better after we scored, though. Before Bona's goal we were absolutely unwatchable.

Posted by: William405 Oct 29 2014, 09:48 PM

+1

Adding to that, we're not putting ANY kind of pressure on Cagliari, we're letting them through.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 09:59 PM

Abbiati's passing has been atrocious today!

And why are we at a walking pace? Are we so f@cking unfit that we can't handle more than one game a week

Abate with a goal saving tackle! That makes it Rami, DS and Abate now with last ditch tackles that saved sure goals, that's how bad we are

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 29 2014, 10:03 PM

This game could go either way. Both teams are very shaky defensively.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 29 2014, 10:08 PM

Has anyone noticed that Honda has become rather selfish lately? Plus he takes forever to pass the ball.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 10:12 PM

I think that's become a hallmark of every player in our team, mostly because there's rarely anyone open to pass to.

Honda busting a gut tracking back and winning the ball back for us is your answer to the selfish question imo

He busts his @ss out there in each game

FINALLY!!!! Muntari off!!!!

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 29 2014, 10:18 PM

WTF is wrong with Menez? He's jogging like we're winning 3-0, not even putting some grit in his performance.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 10:30 PM

Well it seems we have a pattern down pat. 2 wins 2 draws aside from the minor blip against Juve

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Oct 29 2014, 10:33 PM

what a save

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 10:33 PM

Instead of being the ones to try and take initiative and go for the win in the last 20 minutes or so, we're the ones stuck in our half defending.

Today it felt like I was the Cagliari fan watching my team play against a better side instead of the reality which is the other way around

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 29 2014, 10:36 PM

Man, what a piss poor performance. We're back to Allegri-level mediocrity.

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Oct 29 2014, 10:37 PM

genoa scored against juve now and unfortunately inter have also scored

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Oct 29 2014, 10:39 PM

1-1 what a dull second half

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 10:40 PM

Another 2 points lost.

These are the teams we should be winning against if we want to play any European football next year yet nothing! No fighting spirit, no passion not even a f@cking ounce of incentive to try and go for it in the last few minutes. Cagliari showed more spirit and industry than us FFS!!

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 29 2014, 10:49 PM

Really, Han, it's not that as if it's been different in our previous games. We were good only against Lazio and Parma. After that, nothingness. People look at the numbers and use them as excuses, but anyone who's followed this team for the last 3-4 years can deduce that nothing has changed whatsoever. Inzaghi has brought nothing to the table, only his complete lack of experience and amateurish decisions.

We lose 1-0 against Juve, people say it was normal, I said it was a travesty. We win 3-1 against Verona, people rejoice when in fact we were just incredibly lucky. We're sh*t, plain and simple, and we have to accept that. Tonight was another horrific performance. Like you said, not an ounce of passion and fighting spirit, just corpses walking on the field.

I give up. If we were going to accomplish something this season, we would have already showed the signs, but we have showed nothing. Absolutely nothing. The reason we're 3rd right now is due to the Serie A being a shite, shite league nowadays. Yet I know people will still rejoice about that, too.

Posted by: Danny Oct 29 2014, 10:51 PM

Gave up on this one emotionally after we went behind. I'm not even angry, just feeling helpless at Pippo's increasingly shite management. He's just making ridiculous errors and not correcting them.

Ratings:

Abbiati: 6 Couple of good saves, couldn't do a thing with the goal.

Abate: 5 Quiet night from him, didn't get forward much and wasn't really threatened in defence.

Rami: 5 Cost us the goal and was atrocious for the first 30 minutes, but improved marginally in the second.

Alex: 7 Until Rami finally got his game on, was doing the work of two men. A collosus at the back and Pippo's best signing.

MDS: 4 Shambolic first half but I concede improvement from him to a level of 'OK' in the second. Nowhere near good enough but not as ghastly as Fiorentina.

Muntari: 3 Useless - once he got booked he was a passenger.

De Jong: 8 Titanic again. Just another superb display from him. But he can't win matches on his own.

Bona: 7 Wunder goal and did work hard but that SHOULDN'T BE HIS JOB FFS.

Honda: 3 Has hit a total shitter of form and is producing zero right now.

SES: 2 Wow, he is just cr*p cr*p cr*p.

Torres: 2 See SES.

Subs:

Poli: 5 solid enough.

Pazzo: 3 If we weren't making chances, why the f*ck bring Pazzo on?!

Menez: 2 Pathetic.

Pippo is doing my head in. This formation is NOT working - 4-3-3 DOES NOT WORK FILIPPO. The attack is non-existent and you're wasting both Honda and Menez. SES hasn't been in form since November 2012 FFS and Torres is worse than he was at Chelsea so far. But none of these f*ckers are being helped by this formation which is seeing a decline in form by match. Add to this the continued refusal to EVER PLAY OUR BEST TEAM and I'm less angry more bewildered.

They say the table doesn't lie, but how we are in third is an absolute miracle. Results around us have done us an amazing favour. No team in third should have 4 f*cking draws in 9 matches.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 10:59 PM

The bolded part is sadly something that I'm now starting to believe as well

We're still seeing the silly decisions and mistakes we saw with Allegri, yet now they're amplified by a complete lack of know-how from the coach

What worries me the most at this point is the players and their attitudes. Today and Sunday's performances were shocking, not just in a technical sense (although that area was awful as well) but from a purely human angle, to see these guys jugging around without a f@cking care in the world when we're about to lose 2 vital points that in all honesty we should be getting without much trouble is just so unacceptable for me.

Menez coming on and acting like he's the sh!t and doing nothing personified this attitude for me, at least if SES is not bringing in his A game in the attack he's still busting a gut tracking back and doing the dirty work as well.

For me this attitude is what's really bothering me so much at this point, I can live with (and accept) the fact that we're not the best or 2nd best team in the league, far from it, but at least try to make up for that step down in quality with effort, and that's what I'm not seeing, it's the same thing we saw with Allegri over and over again.

As for the football side of things, the only thing I can say is WTF did I just waste 90+ minutes of my life watching??

Lethargic, slow, clueless, detached, lazy, terrible... I can't even think of more adjectives to describe what I saw out there.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 29 2014, 11:02 PM

He gets a zero from me. Fucking pathetic. Came in and did absolutely nothing other than jog like a lazy @ss mofo who doesn't give two shits. Is he that bummed that Pippo started benching him? F*ck you! I hope he gets benched for the rest of the season. At least SES always puts effort.

Posted by: William405 Oct 29 2014, 11:08 PM

+1
You took the words right out of my mouth, can't agree more.

Posted by: Danny Oct 29 2014, 11:13 PM

Signs weren't good last week, worse this week when he was laughing and grinning when he came on. Didn't look like he gave a cr*p.

I think we now see why this guy has never really made it in football. Might have some talent but his attitude is deplorable. He reminds me of Niang before he started to mature, and Niang was 18 FFS. This guy is late 20s!

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 11:15 PM

Don't want to seem critical but I really want to comment on some of these ratings Danny.

First Abbiati... Cannot for the life of me understand why Pippo is picking him, he was passing out clangers all game long and imo he did make a mistake on the goal. He came flying out when there was no chance in hell that he was ever going to reach that.

Rami, he wasn't the only one at fault for the goal, he was second in a 4-bit sequence of errors imo. Also, he made an amazing goal line sliding clearance on a sure goal from Ibarbo a few minutes into the game. I thought he was solid overall aside from that slight blip on the goal. At this point we just have to accept that no matter who plays in defence we're going to concede. It's mostly due to the fact that the defenders have no cover from the midfield so it's very easy for teams to slice us open at will. We're very lucky to have drawn today imo

DS, no way he deserves just a 4 for today, he was one of the better players on the pitch for me today (not saying much I know). In fact I thought he was better than Abate today.

Abate, Rami and DS all made goal saving tackles/clearances today. Without their awareness and positioning we could be looking at a loss today (which sadly is what I think we need to give Pippo a good kick in the teeth, this drawing business and somehow miraculously finding ourselves in third must have him in some false sense of calm that he shouldn't be feeling)

The attackers in general... A this point I've given up on trying to see who's doing well and who isn't, who's **** and who isn't. The point is, these guys aren't getting any service, therefore they're not going to produce. You said it yourself, why bring on Pazzo when we're creating absolutely nothing but horse sh!t out there.

SES for me is just NOT a winger, end of. Playing him there, especially when everyone around him is so painfully static is just ridiculous. Notice that every time he gets the ball he's easily surrounded by 2 or 3 players and has not option but to pass it back to DS/Muntari. The only time that SES can work as a winger is if we're countering and he has acres of space to run into, aside from that it's a complete waste, he's not going to dribble 3 or 4 players and score.

Torres is just not getting any service, he's literally been forced to play a target man with long balls being punted at him or trying to shoot from balls that come loose after challenges. Just ridiculous, of course he's going to be utter sh!t and worse than at Chelsea, at least at Chelsea the guys behind him were creating chances for him to sky over the bar, here he's not even getting that

Honda, same argument as with SES really, he's been trying to do his best there and has mostly succeeded so far this season and that mostly goes to his sheer will and determination, he's still working his @ss off in the defensive phase of the game but he just cannot do what Pippo envisions for that right winger role. I really wish we could either see him as a CM or in the AM position, although neither will ever happen

Pretty much agree with the rest of you assessment, especially that last bit.

I absolutely cannot believe we're in 3rd! Just goes to show how weak the league is and my point about us having just as much of a chance to get 3rd simply on the bases that the other clubs competing for that position are just as terrible as we are

Posted by: Danny Oct 29 2014, 11:22 PM

I don't disagree with much in here. Whether or not we agree on this player or that one, the collective unit is absolutely shocking. The midfield is just pedestrian beyond words, and the formation is clearly not suiting anyone out there, while the attack has to be the worst I can remember. We managed ONE worthwhile shot on target in this match ffs. And that was a pearling wordly goal from Bona.

The only things positive are Alex and De Jong. Abate normally but less so tonight.

Besides this? We're really, really, REALLY poor.

But that said I do still feel an alteration in literally 3 players and a switch in formation would help so much. If Pippo could stick with the same defence for more than one bloody match, that would be a start, and if he could just kindly stop selecting God d*mn Muntari by default. Tweak attack by putting Honda behind two strikers, probably SES and Torres (shite as they are they're at least trying) and see if that tweaks the system a bit.

PS no matter what form MDS is in, he is officially the first name on the team sheet and untouchable:



So, Pippo, why exactly did you sign a Columbian world cup quarter finalist LB if you never ever intended to play him? I said at the time the signing was pointless, and Pippo has all but confirmed it now.

http://www.italianfootballdaily.com/inzaghi-de-sciglio-el-sharaawy-future-italian-football/

I defended Pippo when X-off criticised his media performances, but have to say the content of this press conference infuriates me.

WHAT THE F*CK IS WRONG WITH MILAN MANAGERS NOW? It's the same mistakes whoever the hell is the boss.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 29 2014, 11:29 PM

Yes, for them.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2014, 11:34 PM

I agree with the tweaks you're mentioning, they're so minor but could go such a long way

At this point I don't care who's playing in the defence just pick 5 (including the keeper) and stick with them FFS!!

Rami or Zapata, both bring in pros and cons to the table imo, I pick one, I know you pick the other, but atm, if I see the same 4 at the back for a consecutive run of games I'll be happy no matter if it's one of the other. A defensive line shouldn't change unless the change is forced on the coach!

The Muntari thing is so grating I just cannot handle it anymore tbh. Jack B mentioned a great anecdote that happened during the game of how seriously stupid this guy is. Muntari has the ball with SES open right in front of him, Pippo yelling at him (standing right next to him) to pass it to SES and what does Muntari do? Try to dribble the ball and loses it promptly after the fact. I just cannot take watching him start again, is he suspended for the next game or is he one caution away now with the yellow he got today? At least that would give us a bit of reprieve.

Still, Muntari or no Muntari, Pippo needs to work on that midfield. atm, we're playing without one, we by-pass it to form attacks and they certainly don't help in covering the defence.

De Jong, as great as he is, atm is working on just individual brilliance, as part of a midfield/defensive unit, imo he's failing as badly as the others. Pippo needs to work as much as possible on this aspect of our game more than anything, our midfield needs to be capable of both covering our defence and support our attack, and atm it's doing neither of those things, just floating around passing the ball aimlessly from CB, to FB to winger back again, just so tedious to watch our "build-up play".

If our midfield play improves, I'm 100% certain that so will our defensive displays

Agreed totally on the attackers


I personally cannot believe that this is the Pippo who allegedly had it out with Allegri and told him he'd do the job better than him. He's falling into the same traps as Allegri imo, only doing it worse at this point. At least with Allegri we generally took control of the game (even if it was with pointless possession that lead to nowhere)

Posted by: Danny Oct 29 2014, 11:38 PM

It was a 3-way c*ck up between he, Rami and MDS.



Yup, he did, his one good act in that first half.



We wouldn't concede if Pippo would pick the best defence. V Fio MDS cost us, today a combination of Rami (mostly) and Abbiati/MDS cost us. You were critical of Zapata who didn't cost us v Fio but praising of Rami who has. Your call, and I know you like Rami, but he is simply not our best option. Zapata would have been gutted, and Armero...well, his backside must be getting warm on that bench.



He was a 7 in the second and a 0 in the first. So that evens out at 4.



You missed Alex in those vital clearances. Do you not rate Alex?



Agree on SES, he's being as wasted on the left as Honda is on the right. It's beyond frustrating and now is just plain ludicrous. Both work hard but they're being rendered impotent.



I'll be critical when he sucks but happily ready to gush with praise when it kicks into gear for him, however, whenever and if it indeed does. He is a symptom of what is wrong with our attack.



To have a 4-3-3 that works you MUST have 2 wingers comfortably with that notion. The old Ronaldinho Barca had him on the left, Guily on the right, and Eto' in the middle. 3 players happy with that combination and each placed to their strengths. Torres is being isolated alone because the other two cannot produce chances for him. SES simply NEVER crosses the ball, he always tries to dribble in and then loses it. Honda cuts back and crosses with the left. Exactly the same every time and it's no wonder it's easily nullified.



Still aiming for 5th but after tonight I don't think we'll get it.

But yes, Serie A is absolutely horrendous. From its heyday in the 80s and 90s/early Noughties it's now behind England, Spain, Germany, Portugal, France, and vies with Turkey, Greece, Russia and Holland in terms of where we're at.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 30 2014, 12:12 AM

I don't think DS had anything to do with that. It was Rami's man, and he lost him, Abbiati came flying out which made it 10 times worse. However it all started with first Abate then Alex both letting whoever the Cagliari player that was who crossed to do it so comfortably and accurately. Therefore, for me, it's a 4-way f@ck up.


I don't think he did any other thing wrong throughout the first half or the 2nd. Minor blip aside he was good, and saved a sure goal, which sort of balances out


I think he is playing our best defence, for me our best defence atm is the one we played today, you prefer Zapata, I would even be okay with that for now as long as he kept it consistent for a good span of games, this changing things around each week is getting seriously old.

Yes, Zapata didn't cost us, but his mistakes last Sunday could have easily done so had he not been as lucky, fact is he can be a bit of liability, which is the only reason I choose Rami over him, simply because I don't trust him. He's simply terrible on the ball, yet instead of passing it on quickly to Alex or his FB, he chooses to hang onto it to try to dribble or make some ridiculous pass which usually ends badly, if he removed that aspect of his game I would trust him a lot more and would have zero issues with him being the starting CB


Nah, he had a solid first half, nothing great but was defensively sound, second half he was easily one of our best performers (again, not saying much, but that's how I personally see his overall performance today)


Rami cleared off the goal line when Ibarbo had an open net to shoot at. Abate slid in with a last ditch tackle at the far post to clear a cross that would have reached the Cagliari player for an easy tap in and DS slid into a tackle inside our area to win the ball off a Cagliari player who was clear through on goal and just had Abbiati to beat. Alex was his usual solid self, made all the correct clearances, challenges and tackles. He's our saving grace in defence this season no question about that.

The other 3 just made 3 spectacular interventions though that have most likely saved our 1 point, that's why I mentioned them


Yep


I think at this point I'm finding it hard to be critical because he literally has nothing to play off of. If we were creating bucket loads of chances for him and he was pissing them away then yeah, I'd jump happily on that band wagon, but at this point I just feel sorry for him


Yep. A 4-3-1-2 would look so much better with the players we have. This 4-3-3 thing is so unnatural. Sadly I think Pippo will continue to persist with it until it dies a slow, agonising, natural death


I don't think it's that bad, probably around the same level as Portugal and France at this point.

That being said, I'll continue to be hopeful for that 3rd spot for as long as the other teams continue to be the utter sh!t they currently are.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 30 2014, 12:19 AM

Meh guys, there's no point in nitpicking at this point. We need some serious changes in our tactical plan and our disposition on the pitch. If we continue with this mentality, where shaky wins are overshadowed by the three points and shameful draws considered as acceptable, we're not going anywhere.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 30 2014, 01:58 AM

Maybe one of you guys should be picked as new coach.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 30 2014, 02:07 AM

Seriously? You gonna keep defending this team?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 30 2014, 02:57 AM

How is that comment defending the team?

Nah man, it was supposed to be double-funny. On one side, our board keeps appointing rookies. On the other, you guys flick the word "amateur" so easily and are all full of know-how. That's a win-win

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 30 2014, 03:40 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMH8pXsGSR4

Posted by: Danny Oct 30 2014, 03:41 AM

Agree to disagree on what we disagree on, and agree to agree what we agree on.

But I take distinct issue with you suggesting Italy is anywhere near Portugal or France. PSG and Monaco would absolutely destroy anything in Serie A, and Porto and Benfica...well they too would dismiss this league with ease.

I'm sticking with fifth.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 30 2014, 03:41 AM

We're fans who discuss and make suggestions, what do you expect? That's what this board is for. And yes, Inzaghi is an amateur, whether you like it or not.

Posted by: Danny Oct 30 2014, 03:48 AM

Sure, I don't mind being paid a fair few quid to choose the team Berlu wants me to.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 30 2014, 09:20 AM

I highly doubt that Silvio is pushing for this, he's a huge advocate for the 2 striker system and already criticised the 4-3-3 after the Juve game if I'm not mistaken

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 30 2014, 11:29 AM

There are a lot of moving objects when your a football team. With Ancelotti we had a lot opposing him, had we taken Van Gal on as coach instead of Pippo; criticism will remain.

It is just that some can not come to terms with the fact that we are reduced to a 3rd place finish as the 'ultimate' we can achieve. This translates to us achieving a UEFA cup birth as something respectable, considering where we are and where we came from.

For me, Milan is a project under construction. Expecting to explode onto the scenes with wins left right and center, is an equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot.

That said, Pippo's stats in these 9 games are impressive, considering his rookie tag.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 30 2014, 12:48 PM

So, apparently Bonaventura wanted to cross and not shoot, so even our goal was an accident.

Posted by: Danny Oct 30 2014, 01:03 PM

Shhhhhhhhhhhhh, we all knew it was a cross but we weren't wanting to say it out loud you spoilsport!

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 30 2014, 01:31 PM

He seemed like he was looking at the goal when he took the shot. Weird.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 30 2014, 03:18 PM

The thing is - what did you expect to happen this season? Milan to improve footballing-wise or result-wise? The letter we did. The first, IMO, comes only with WC players or a coach with immense experience and a system. This is neither our team nor Pippo.

Saying that Pippo is doing worse then Allegri is wrong from my stance. Allegri imposed his mentality, and did unthinkable mistakes: playing players out of position, giving a cold treatment to players who didn't fit or didn't somehow show the qualities he needed. Giving the a 2 minute cameo, like with Dinho or Pippo. But more importantly, Allegri usually lost his plan and then tried changing things in a panic.

Inzaghi is, I believe, under the influence of Ancelotti - more rigid. He has a vision and a plan, and he sticks to it even if it seems he's failing. Is this good? I don't know. Yes, I agree, we all expected more or hoped for more, but I'm not sure it's all about Inzaghi.

We had 3 coaches with different visions, different tactics, different backgrounds and experiences. All failed when it came to taking grasp of the team, team mentality and overall body language of the team. It's quite obvious that this is a long term problem and that Pippo doesn't have a magic wand which could erase the years under Allegri.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 30 2014, 03:36 PM

And the new poll http://www.milanfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8458&st=0

Posted by: Danny Oct 30 2014, 03:54 PM

Honda on the right wing, SES on the left, Menez as false nine, Bona as winger.



Armero hasn't started a single match, Zapata barely plays, Lopez is bizarrely benched.



In his defence he did try to change them. Pippo is swapping like for like and not changing things which aren't working.



Pippo, just sticking to the same formation and repeatedly playing the same players doesn't constitute a plan.

The tactic is the plan - how they move off the ball, how the team counter attacks, how they use the ball in possession. Right now there's zero of this.

Furthermore, off the ball there's a real lack of pressing, and on the ball a lack of urgency.



I'm sure Han and X will rant at me but to 'erase the years under Allegri' means erasing a Scudetto win and CL appearances.

For his faults, and he made many, before it went sour under him it was an acceptable level - and for me the Club's error was not investing in new players when we won the Scudetto. We had a BIG chance there to affirm our authority and improve a decent team with some really good players like Strootman, Pjannic (we were linked to both). Instead we signed the likes of Mexes - a reasonable defender in his day but never an upgrade to someone like Nesta or Silva. Then a season later we got rid of EVERYONE worth a d*mn.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 30 2014, 04:56 PM

Nah, what we did was fine. We got rid of the wasters like Ibra and Silva who added nothing to the team. Bought in proven Champions like Muntari and Bojan. I still don't understand why that didn't work 'til this day.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 30 2014, 05:48 PM

I thought it was pretty obvious that it was a cross tbh

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 30 2014, 06:45 PM

What Danny said.

Pippo plays players out of position, it's been one of our main rants so far. Honda as winger is the most obvious one, but also Bonaventura as winger and Menez as false nine.

Secondly, Inzaghi has been giving cold treatment to a few players. Mexes, Armero and Pazzini, to name a few. You know what Pazzini's wife wrote last night on Twitter? "There's no meritocracy at Milan". Indeed, when Pippo keeps playing Muntari or DS while guys like Armero and van Ginkel warm the bench without barely given a chance to prove their worth.

I think we all expected something to change with Pippo taking over. We knew we couldn't become title contenders and play amazing football overnight, but at least some form of progress and new ideas being implemented, a winning spirit and lots of enthusiasm. So far, there have been no such things. We play a horrific, horrific football without ideas, and albeit our players aren't world beaters, we can do better than this! Much better.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 30 2014, 08:50 PM

SES isn't played out of position. And if you two don't see the difference between playing Emanuelson on AM or SS and Menez being a little bit more central or a left winger, than seriously...I've no words.

The things Pippo does is what every coach does in a certain way and amount. Menez brought goals and good performances as false 9, what else should we expect? Honda? As I said, Zaccheroni mentioned he can play on the right. I still don't think it's that big of a deal.





Van Ginkel and Mexes yes. Especially Mexes. Van Ginkel I cannot judge, because his potential is unknown to me and he still hasn't played much for Milan.

But should Inzaghi really bench MDS? I don't think he was that bad. Armero was signed as a backup, he was rejected by Napoli and failed at West Ham; if Pippo doesn't think he's up to it, I can trust he has good reasons - Armero did fail in the past on few occasions.

And really X-O, you mention Pazzini? Honestly?? I mean, had Pippo been playing Pazzini more, you would have ranted on and on how Inzaghi is insisting on an old and shabby has-been. When was the last time Pazzini scored? How many goals did he score last season after his injury? 2? Perhaps 3?

Again, if you guys think that the mentioned examples are similar to Allegri's relationship with various players, Pippo, Pirlo, Dinho being few of many, what's there to say?


Yes, the club is at fault as well. Agreed here.

But the Scudetto-Allegri-Milan has been erased already. With the key players gone, there's probably only a bit more of it left then of the Maldini Milan. What however lingered on these years is his mentality, his signature, his way of creating the team's visual and mental appearance. If this is to be changed, we need a coach like Bielsa or van Gaal, someone who brings in experience, know-how, a tested and proven system and a set of new ideas. Expecting the mentioned out of Pippo - also in a short time - is very very unrealistic.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 30 2014, 09:12 PM

I agree that playing Menez as false nine or Bonaventura on the wing isn't as extreme as Emanuelson in attack, but in Allegri's defense he really had no options available other than to completely overhaul his system, which he should have done nevertheless.

But Pippo has the right men in every position, yet he sticks to very questionable decisions. Being an amateur here has nothing to do with it. We're all amateurs for that matter, yet it's simple to see that Honda on the wing doesn't function (I don't care what Zaccheroni says), or that a flat midfield gets us nowhere. Yet so far he has done little to nothing to remedy to these flaws, and that's worrying.

As for Pazzini, you are completely right, but I only brought him as an example. There are already players who are starting to feel cornered and unwanted, so Inzaghi's man management isn't as impeccable as you make it out to be.

Bottom line here is that we can and need to do better than this. The coach has to set the example, the players have to follow. But if Pippo keeps making mistake after mistake in every game without learning anything from them then don't be so surprised that we're all so critical towards him.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 30 2014, 09:49 PM

I tend to agree here with Filippo.

I'm not all that happy with Pippo and there are many bones that I can pick with him, but anything is better than the last 1 and a half years under Allegri's reign

Pippo needs to just get his head out of his @ss atm, pick the best team, stop playing Muntari in every game, and get us playing some half decent football.

The only thing that reminds me of Allegri atm is the complete lack of tactical plan or ideas. Granted, we're still scoring goals, with the only blank being drawn vs Juve, but very few of them were created through good team plays. That's my biggest problem right now, we're not playing as a team, in fact from the first 2 games to now, I feel like we've regressed in how we play and in the attitude shown by the players

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 31 2014, 12:00 AM

No sh*t, Sherlock. As if the rest of us is asking the moon from Pippo.



In other words, the most important thing.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 31 2014, 07:29 AM

Ok. I'm not getting involved in this discussion. I obviously don't see things the way you guys do and think there's a lot of nitpicking going on.

We're performing better. I'm definitely seeing a huge improvement in the team, and I think we shall be getting better come June.

I also don't agree on a Honda-centric 4-3-1-2. The whole Inzaghi philosophy is based on not giving a point of reference to the opposition defenders, and if you mark out Honda that's essentially it.

The Ancelotti version worked because the players in the hole where Rui Costa and Kaka. Not Honda.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 31 2014, 09:55 AM

Yeah Jack, but even if Ancelotti came back and brought with him CR, there would still be complainers.

Truth be told even when we were playing CWC there were those who complained, just goes to show you how difficult it is to coup when the club doesn't join in our discussions at MF.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 31 2014, 12:39 PM

Huge improvement... OK, Jack.

Posted by: Danny Oct 31 2014, 01:04 PM

I think performing better is a stretch. We're incredibly patchy and we're not getting the best out of the players. My biggest concerns are (among other things):

1: Total lack of pressing off the ball. This is one thing Seedorf did brilliantly. Made possession for opponents extremely claustrophobic.

2: Lack of urgency on it. Two matches in a row where we've needed a goal and acted like we were 8 up.

3: Pippo stating categorically MDS will always start. That's a shocking message which maybe only Ronaldo or Messi has earned. No player should always start, not even De Jong - their form has to earn it, but MDS is apparently invulnerable. I dislike that ethos. It's called 'favourites' and when managers pick their favourites and not the best players it's not for the good of the team.

But that said anyone who was told we'd be third after 9 matches would have bitten your arm off for it, and only one defeat in those 9 is excellent. 4 draws though, is very much not.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 31 2014, 01:11 PM

4 draws in the last 6 games, only 1 point from 9th place and 3 points from 10th place, 12 goals conceded in total. Don't give too much credibility to our position. There are 8 teams from 3rd to 10th place with 16, 15 and 13 points. Being 3rd or 10th makes no difference at this moment. What matters is our performances, and they've been far from good.

Posted by: Danny Oct 31 2014, 04:27 PM

I'm not, indeed if you remember my ratings post I couldn't actually believe we were third.

But the point is, factually speaking, if we'd been offered 3rd place at this stage regardless of stats, we'd have bitten someone's hand off for it.

But yeah, of course the performances have been increasingly poor these past 4 or 5 matches.

Worrying quote from Menez:

Increasing concerns Pippo is a yes man here, and is literally doing what Silvio wants.

Posted by: Danny Oct 31 2014, 04:30 PM

PS: For the Palermo thread (when it arrives)

Predicted team: Lopez, Abate, Alex, Zapata, MDS, Poli, De Jong, Van Ginkel, Honda, Menez, El-Sha (no clue on the source)

Posted by: Danny Oct 31 2014, 04:32 PM

PPS I'm not a fan of Mexes but it's all but confirmed he's out of the picture under Pippo. He's not injured, he's not suspended, he's just not in the squad. His exclusion is dismissed under 'other' - aka 'not required'.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 31 2014, 08:08 PM

Before the pre-match conference ahead of the Cagliari game, Pippo made it a point to mention that he had FOUR good CBs to rely on and also made it a point to mention them by name. Mexes wasn't included.

It's pretty obvious at this point that no matter what happens, Mexes is out. Which imo, is utter horse cr@p as imo he's still one of the best we have in that position and we're paying him 8m in total for his services this season to sit on the bench

Btw, I'll open the match thread as soon as I can

Posted by: acid911 Nov 1 2014, 02:15 AM

Quoted for the fudging, stinking truth that it is.