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Rossoneri7
post Oct 10 2007, 01:43 PM
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Ok so I have with me documents of the trial along with wire tapings !!

It is in Italian so anyone who wants a copy PM me your email and I'll forward it to you.

If you want something in English .. I would suggest to join a facebook group (link: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=4407899177 ) ..


p.s. I have been looking at this for the past two days .. And I don't know what to think anymore.

QUOTE
sentences from the Commissione d’Appello Federale (CAF) and Corte Federale (CF). I hope you read Italian. In any case the key points are:

-          Pg 74-75 CAF claims that there was no “cupola” or “Moggi System” contrary to the Gazzetta

-          Pg 76 CAF claims no article 6 violations against Juventus and therefore introduces the structured article violation (much disputed by many legal entities)

The reason this is so scandalous is because it attempts to convince the reader that a team (Juventus) was capable of obtaining a favorable position in the standings without fixing the results of a single game. My question is how. The only way to acquire points in the standings is by winning or drawing matches. If Juve didn’t fix any matches then the standings were legit right?

-          Pg 83 CAF states that referee selections were done in accordance with the rules of the FIGC therefore all the phone calls made by Moggi to designer Bergamo were legal and altered no referee selections.

-          Pg 101 CAF I’m sure you heard of Moggi’s yellow card system to ensure key players were suspended for upcoming matches against Juve. On this page the sentence declares that the yellow cards were not organized.

-          Pg 65 CF claims that Moggi and Giraudo operated independently of Juventus and its owners. In other words the team should have been off the hook regarding relegation and only the two directors should have been on trial (that’s the little loophole that kept Milan in the CL)

-          Pg 61 CF states that Juventus was not responsible for the salvation of Fiorentina after the De Santis influenced game between Lecce and Parma that finished in a tie allowing the Viola to survive Serie A

-          Pg 66 CF states that though Moggi didn’t exercise his ability to condition games, he still possessed the ability. So since you have a car and a bottle of wine you could be tried for having the ability to drink and drive?

-          Pg 74 CF admits that no proof of match fixing (article 6) exists.

-          Pg 77 CF finally states the proof used against Juventus “Juventus’ advantage was evidenced by their position in the standings at the end of the season”. That’s right…they were guilty because they finished first. So you driving is proof of being a car thief too. Are you laughing yet?

CF Judge Piero Sandulli had an interview in “Il Giornale” on the 27th of July 2006 where he was asked what the reasoning was behind the sentence he approved. His response was “there was no illicit activity; the 2004-2005 season was not fixed. The only doubt we had was Lecce-Parma (didn’t concern Juventus or Moggi) which we looked at again and again (with no video…whatever). In any case the season was legitimate.” I’ll just add that Sandulli has a criminal record for fraudulent activity while at Rome’s City Hall and is a die hard Lazio fan.

CF Judge Mario Serio stated in an interview in “La Repubblica” on the 27th of July 2006 that “in spite of a lack of evidence regarding match fixing, Juventus were sentenced to Serie B and stripped of their titles after taking into consideration the collective interests of the parties involved in the investigation.” All of which happened to be Interista and not just from a fan point of view. See the facebook group to see who the key players in the investigation were and how they were tied to Inter.

Note that no wire taps were heard in court. That’s right. Only pieces of transcripts were used, transcripts that have been manipulated by those that provided them to the court (see facebook group because I don’t feel like re-writing the names and confessions).

Note that no video evidence was allowed to be used by the defense (see facebook videos)

Note no witnesses were allowed to be brought forth

Note that the defense had little more than 3 days to compile their arguments and that they were not presented with the evidence prior to the trial as opposed to what the law dictates…instead the press got a hold of the prosecution’s information first. Is it any wonder? Inter VP Carlo Buare owns la Gazzetta dello Sport and it is run by two major Inter Investors (Verdelli and Cannavo’) while il Corriere dello Sport is run by Bartolozzi (Inter Team Manager). There is more on this in the facebook writings.


This was the email that I received from Giuseppe Solinas a Juventus fan. He kept refering to the facebook group, because it had so much discussion on the subject. It would take you days to go through it all.
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dst
post Oct 10 2007, 04:00 PM
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I have made my conclusion on this...

First of all, what was said on those tapes (at least those that I have had translated which were supposed to be the most grave ones) is nothing really serious... I'm 110% sure that those are conversations held in every league in the whole wide world!

Secondly, Milan's managers were not found guilty of match-fixing! But the club and individuals related to it were penalized for another reason: When Baggio signed for Milan in 1995, the two sides also agreed on the league's management: Milan would take care of all the money-related stuff and Juventus would take care of the league organization! Everyone knew that... Milan did not allow the smaller teams to buy big and they did not give them as much money as they should...

There was no evidence for this either... but Milan were still penalized because it was a common secret. In my view, Milan were punished deservingly! But when it comes to match-fixing, Milan had no involvement and that's also proved by the fact that not team, big or small, had ever had any complains about Milan bring favored when we played against them...
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Rossoneri7
post Oct 10 2007, 04:10 PM
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@dst ..

Exactly .. The tapped conversations; Meani and Collina .. Moggi and Paparesta .. Bergamo and Carraro .. They have all not shown one bit of evidence that any of the parties were arranging anything illegal. It was just the rhetoric off the media and newspapers that gave us the assumption that there was something in there. Thus they weren't admitted into the hearings ..

Milan managers were not found guilty. Yes that is how it turned out.


I am not telling u go and review this ... I am saying, anyone who wants this evidence, I have them.

p.s. Not only the wire taps, but the documents of the trial (which r in italian, unfortunately in pdf form) ..
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Tennie
post Oct 10 2007, 04:31 PM
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Something much like the snipped quoted above is in a goal.com article ranting about how goal.com is anti-Juve. (http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=440820)

Some of the transcripts I've read (in Italian and linked off of Gazzetta's website) are somewhat incriminating; most aren't really all that bad.

Honestly, I'd rather just move on rather than rehash old news. Unless, of course, someone turns up tapes of Merda conversations that were surely happening at the same time as the rest.
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dst
post Oct 10 2007, 04:45 PM
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QUOTE (Tennie @ Oct 10 2007, 06:31 PM)
Honestly, I'd rather just move on rather than rehash old news. Unless, of course, someone turns up tapes of Merda conversations that were surely happening at the same time as the rest.
*

The Merda were certainly not left out of any economic deals but they were undoubtedly not favored by the refs and were also "killed" many times and deprived of winning two scudetti!
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Rossoneri7
post Oct 10 2007, 05:04 PM
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QUOTE (Tennie @ Oct 10 2007, 06:31 PM)
Honestly, I'd rather just move on rather than rehash old news.
*


We have all moved on Tennie ... But can we overlook such a occasion ? I mean, this is something that will be in Italian history. We all have a gutted feeling on Moratti being behind all of this .. But what can I say ..


Anyways .. This is the last part of his email to me ..

QUOTE
Lastly we at Giu Le Mani Dalla Juve have done what Juventus can no longer do for themselves. We brought the case to the European Court of Commerce and UEFA President Michel Platini is supporting us. If we win our appeal in Europe the FIGC will be forced to make financial restitution to Juventus for the 250,000,000 Euros lost thanks to FARSOPOLI. In addition we will get our titles back!

Visit us at www.giulemanidallajuve.com



Giuseppe Solinas

Juventus Special Member

Juventino DOC Toronto

Socio Giu Le Mani Dalla Juve


apparently this might turn out to be something HUGE .. But I have yet to see anything
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Tennie
post Oct 10 2007, 05:33 PM
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I really don't think the appeal is going to be effective, though it is a nice touch and good show of devotion by the Canadian Zebras.
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dst
post Oct 10 2007, 05:36 PM
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QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Oct 10 2007, 07:04 PM)
apparently this might turn out to be something HUGE .. But I have yet to see anything
*

(Most probably) nothing will happen!
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Rossoneri7
post Oct 10 2007, 10:45 PM
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QUOTE (dst @ Oct 10 2007, 07:36 PM)
(Most probably) nothing will happen!
*


Yeah,
it's Italy after all (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)
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dst
post Oct 11 2007, 07:37 AM
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QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Oct 11 2007, 12:45 AM)

What do you mean?
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Rossoneri7
post Oct 11 2007, 08:11 AM
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QUOTE (dst @ Oct 11 2007, 09:37 AM)
What do you mean?
*


corruption
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dst
post Oct 11 2007, 03:20 PM
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QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Oct 11 2007, 10:11 AM)
corruption
*

I still don't get it... (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Rossoneri7
post Oct 11 2007, 03:33 PM
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QUOTE (dst @ Oct 11 2007, 05:20 PM)


Well of course u don't .. Especially now that Tennie has gotten in contact with Galliani and he knows the address of this site (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

Ur looking out for ur future rightback career (IMG:http://cyrus.medialayer.net/~m1ke/milanfan.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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