I don't usually have a problem with players leaving, if we get money for them. But when a club sticks by you like that, the very least you can do is get the club something in return. Basically we paid money for him, gave him a new deal when he didn't deserve one to give him another chance and then he Fs us over.

At least with Barry, Milner and Young they were all quality their entire stay and left when we could still make money from them. Hutton's a more comparable situation, did nothing for 3 years, we gave him another chance, he improves and signs a new deal.

My point was we got nothing for Naismith, not even a thank you. He left for free. So I've been there, trust me.

Yeah it's ****. Hitzlsperger did the same. It's even more annoying when they're irrelevant player, you make them a name and then they ditch.

Liverpool are falling into shambles.

Falling? Soon as Suarez left that was it for them.

Suarez made Rodgers look like Mourinho.

Now we're seeing he's really very average.

Liverpool were great without Suarez last season when he was banned. I don't buy that simple argument. Liverpool are just bad from back to front. players that were performing last season aren't in this one, the system that was so great and exhilarating to watch last season is gone as well, that was not dependant on Suarez.

Yes he was a hugely important player for them, but to go from how they played last season to how they're playing now is not solely dependant on Suarez not being there

I believe it is. His presence elevates Uruguay from mediocre to actually not bad.

The problem was his presence in the Liverpool team compensated for all their failings - their soft centre, ghastly defence. He raised Sterling, Gerrard and Sturridge especially and now he's gone, so has morale.

And the high pressing they did with him around is gone and that terrible defence is now totally exposed.

Suarez really is that good. Pity Barca probably isn't the right team for him to be at. He needs a Liverpool type of team - one which is mediocre and makes him the focal point.

Silvio?

PS they weren't great, they were decent. At the start. But then...so were Spurs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

After 5 matches Spurs and Liverpool were setting the pace. So I wouldn't pay too much heed to what happened at the start.

After all, if you go by opening periods to seasons we were top this season!

They were great not just based on their results, but how they played in general. They were good throughout last season, Suarez or no Suarez.

Keep in mind I'm not trying to demean how great Suarez is, the man is a machine and he really proves the argument I was making in the other thread that certain strikers (Ibra and Suarez) can do it all, while others - no matter how great they are - can't do it all.

I just think Liverpool's problems this season run far deeper than just losing Suarez

Nah, he elevated them big time.

After his return, they were managing:

4-1 V West Ham
0-5 at Spurs
3-1 over Cardiff
0-3 at Utd
3-6 at Cardiff
4-0 over Spurs
0-3 at Southampton
5-1 v Arsenal

They had some lesser results of course but with him in the team they were monstrous at times.

Prior to that big loss v Chelsea (which basically cost them the title) they went on a 12-match winning run, including over the champions elect Man City.

He was making that happen, but Rodgers' lack of a plan B cost them at Chelsea.

Let's put it this way, I think Suarez elevated them to a completely new level, I completely agree with you there

However I do not believe that they should be as bad as they are this season, even without him.

There was always going to be a drop, they lost a top class player (not just striker), but the severe meltdown we're seeing this season for me is not just Suarez related - it IS a huge part but not all of it, that's what I'm trying to say basically

Oh I would agree they shouldn't be a 12th place team without him, I'm with you on that.

They're worse than I expected them to be without him, but it emphasises how big he was. He added about 30% to each midfield/attacker's game around him (impossible 130%), so now they're about 50% without him - a drop of 80%.

And Brendan has absolutely no idea how to get them back to anything like even 70% of their normal capacity.

And those numbers hopefully add up perfectly (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

The deal hasn't worked out for both Liverpool and Barcelona and his antics cost Uruguay all hope at the World Cup. Great all round. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Uruguay aside I agree with this post.

So Man U turning it around... People said Van Gaal would pull something like this...