[Fillipo Simone]

Flop? Hard to say. So many of them. Ambrosini wasn't working today, he simply couldn't present the usual strong performance. Maybe he was pushed in too early after his injury? At least Mexès got justified with the same excuse. Same goes to Muntari who was slightly better.

Niang with yet another bad performance. Much fuss, no gain. And it's not just his fault, playing him and especially SES on the wings is an unbelievable waste. SES was non-existant for most of the time.

But the obvious flop goes to Zapata. He got played and outplayed by Ibrabo who scored a staggering 1 goal in 20 appearances so far. Sorry, he was good for the past few weeks, and he remains our best CB, but today was a horrible day for him.

MOM? Flamini. Incredible work rate, good movements up in attack, omnipresent in defense.

Allegri...don't wanna wast words on him.

[X-Offender]

Choosing just one flop makes no sense, since 90% of the team sucked balls today. But my votes goes to Ambrosini, he was the worst of the bunch. I agree about Flamini, and I don't wanna waste words either on Allegri.

[han2503]

Who voted Flamini as the flop and Ambro top? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[X-Offender]

Who voted Flamini as the flop and Ambro top? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

LOL (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Danny]

Actually thought Abate had a pretty solid game on the flank. I'd give my top to him.

Worst was Ambro - not even able to cope with basic Serie A now.

Allegri screwed up yesterday but still a stay for me.

[han2503]

Actually thought Abate had a pretty solid game on the flank. I'd give my top to him.

Worst was Ambro - not even able to cope with basic Serie A now.

Allegri screwed up yesterday but still a stay for me.

My question for you Danny is, do you want him to stay beyond this season? And let's also say we make third, would you want him to stay on then, seeing what you have this season?

Same with Abate and Ambro for me to.

Allegri obviously should go.

[Danny]

My question for you Danny is, do you want him to stay beyond this season? And let's also say we make third, would you want him to stay on then, seeing what you have this season?

Same with Abate and Ambro for me to.

Allegri obviously should go.

Look at the first half V Udi. And the overall recovery despite matches like yesterday.

This Milan is not a bad team and as much as Allegri takes criticism a LOT he also deserves praise when it goes right.

Do I wish him to stay for next season? It's truly a moot point given he will, but truth is; unless we get a Hollywood name to replace him I don't want some crap like Benitez or suchlike. I'd rather Allegri than sub-par under-achieving nonsense.

[han2503]

Look at the first half V Udi. And the overall recovery despite matches like yesterday.

This Milan is not a bad team and as much as Allegri takes criticism a LOT he also deserves praise when it goes right.

Do I wish him to stay for next season? It's truly a moot point given he will, but truth is; unless we get a Hollywood name to replace him I don't want some crap like Benitez or suchlike. I'd rather Allegri than sub-par under-achieving nonsense.

45 minutes against Udinese who are no where near what they have been in recent years is simply not enough for me. Having to rely on a ref to make a none existant penalty call to win us a game is even worse. It's just painful to watch as a Milan fan.

I never said the squad is bad. I've always maintained that even after the loss of Ibra and Silva in the smmer that we still have a strong group of talented players that in reality should have been comfortably in 3rd by now considering what Inter and the like have been up to this season.

There is no reason why we should have started the season so badly, even after losing 2 players, who were important but not the difference between 2nd place holder for nearly all of last season to relegation candidates. I still remember you worrying about us actually getting relegated at one point this season. Things were THAT bad.

I personally don't see it as a foregone conclusion that he'll stay. From Silvio's words, it seems far from being the case actually. Galliani is his only backer, but at the end of the day Silvio could never be happy with the state of this team and the talk of confirming Allegri for next season is just smoke and mirrors.

[kurtsimonw]

considering what Inter and the like have been up to this season.

Inters squad > our squad. You even said it yourself. Not the first time you've decided to change your mind to fit your arguement though.

[Danny]

45 minutes against Udinese who are no where near what they have been in recent years

Still a strong team and they're in 7th. We recently got humbled by the side above them.

As I say, you and others discredit every achievement in Serie A. Whether it's by opponents or ourselves.

is simply not enough for me. Having to rely on a ref to make a none existant penalty call to win us a game is even worse. It's just painful to watch as a Milan fan.

I wasn't pained in the slightest. You noticed we smacked the bar in that match too, right?

I never said the squad is bad. I've always maintained that even after the loss of Ibra and Silva in the smmer that we still have a strong group of talented players that in reality should have been comfortably in 3rd by now considering what Inter and the like have been up to this season.

As Kurt says, you seem to have shifted your position, and you keep doing it. It's why I find debate with you tough - PS that secret code I speak in is called English (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

There is no reason why we should have started the season so badly, even after losing 2 players, who were important but not the difference between 2nd place holder for nearly all of last season to relegation candidates. I still remember you worrying about us actually getting relegated at one point this season. Things were THAT bad.

I don't agree. I even posted a thread in this very forum in October which was inspired by Franco Baresi:

http://www.milanfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8127

I personally don't see it as a foregone conclusion that he'll stay. From Silvio's words, it seems far from being the case actually. Galliani is his only backer, but at the end of the day Silvio could never be happy with the state of this team and the talk of confirming Allegri for next season is just smoke and mirrors.

If Berlu was that gutted he'd already have fired Allegri. He'd have brought someone else in.

He had no issue firing Leo. They call it a mutual departure but that's a way of politely being fired. Same would happen here with Allegri.

It hasn't.

[han2503]

Inters squad > our squad. You even said it yourself. Not the first time you've decided to change your mind to fit your arguement though.

And I STILL say that Inter have a better squad then us.

Still a strong team and they're in 7th. We recently got humbled by the side above them.

I didn't say they are a bad team, but considering what a pain they have been to us for the last few seasons and the calibre of players they lose every summer, then we shouldn't be jumping for joy simply because we play a decent 45 minutes against them. Doesn't just this very low expectation ring enough bells for you?

Don't even remind me about the Roma game now.

As I say, you and others discredit every achievement in Serie A. Whether it's by opponents or ourselves.

What achievements do we discredit?

Stealing a point from under Udine? I'm not discrediting them, I'm simply saying that they're not as strong as they have been in the past and yet we could barely show a decent display for 45 minutes.

I wasn't pained in the slightest. You noticed we smacked the bar in that match too, right?

Is hitting the bar a goal?

And that's your view on things. Winning points off a team because of a very clear wrong call by the ref just does not sit right with me, and this is the game you're using as your example for a "good" performance from us.

As Kurt says, you seem to have shifted your position, and you keep doing it. It's why I find debate with you tough - PS that secret code I speak in is called English (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

When did I shift my position?

I've had countless arguments with you concerning the quality of our squad. From the day the season started I've always maintained that with the squad we have 3rd should be the minimum expectation.

I've ALWAYS maintained that stance.

I just HATE how a very few bunch always underrate the quality of the squad in the "poor Allegri" argument. As if he's been given the Pescara squad and asked to take them to 3rd. Just laughable.

I think you pointed out a couple of weeks ago that you find it hard to debate with me because I'm too hard headed and never give in on my oppinions and therefore my position on subjects (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) YOU should decide YOUR position (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

If Berlu was that gutted he'd already have fired Allegri. He'd have brought someone else in.

He had no issue firing Leo. They call it a mutual departure but that's a way of politely being fired. Same would happen here with Allegri.

It hasn't.

If we sack him during the middle of the season then we have to pay him a decent sum of money because he still has a bit to go on his contract.

Letting him go in the summer would mean not having to pay such a big sum and having the time to replace him better. and it's not like Leo was fired during the season either (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I think the final straw could be these CL games coming up. Silvio holds Barca as THE ideal in football. Losing to them heavily on such a big stage could be a huge ego crushing moment for him. He might not care about the Serie A showings much these days, but getting humiliated on such a grand scale could never sit well with him. Just like the coffin was closed on Leo with that loss against Man U

[kurtsimonw]

I just HATE how a very few bunch always underrate the quality of the squad in the "poor Allegri" argument.

You should read your post in the other thread.

You complained that we built our team around Ibra and that players aren't performing as well without him. Nocerino and Boateng had never been that good in their careers. Suddenly playing off Ibra they have great a great season and without Ibra they revert back to just being decent players. Do you not even consider that playing off Ibra is why they improved?

[han2503]

You should read your post in the other thread.

You complained that we built our team around Ibra and that players aren't performing as well without him. Nocerino and Boateng had never been that good in their careers. Suddenly playing off Ibra they have great a great season and without Ibra they revert back to just being decent players. Do you not even consider that playing off Ibra is why they improved?

And I replied to your post.

YES Ibra made them look better then they are. Who wouldn't look good having a player like Ibra ahead of them? He made everything easy for the rest. Nocerino and Boateng looked world class last season. I never said that they are world class though. I said they're both good players

But you saying they're the Portsmouth/Palermo players that were just tagging along for the ride is an insult. Nocerino is no 10 goal for the season man, that's Ibra's work by feeding him balls for his runs into the box. But his work in midfield? Are we saying that he's a bad player now simply because he's not scored 10 goals this season as well?

Prince? Of course he cannot function as an AM without Ibra taking the heat away from him. But to say he's an average player is another insult.

They're both good players. and if used correctly would offer great contributions to thist team. I'm certain that playing Muntari and Ambro is NOT the answer.

Once again, underrating every player to make the "poor Allegri" argument. If "poor Allegri" used them correctly in his midfield 3 then "poor Allegri" would get the best out of them, thus helping in making the team play better with the assets he has.

[kurtsimonw]

Once again, underrating every player to make the "poor Allegri" argument.

Once again you're overrated them to make the "Allegri sucks" arguement.

As for the "every" comment, how ridiculous. I've defended many players this season, including Pazzini and Niang who you don't rate.

If "poor Allegri" used them correctly in his midfield 3 then "poor Allegri" would get the best out of them

Just like he did the past 2 seasons and nobody gave him credit for them far exceding their own true ability.

As for Boateng, I maintain he's just not that good a player. You can disagree all you like, I just don't rate him highly. Nowhere near good enough for this club, even now.

[han2503]

Once again you're overrated them to make the "Allegri sucks" arguement.

As for the "every" comment, how ridiculous. I've defended many players this season, including Pazzini and Niang who you don't rate.


Just like he did the past 2 seasons and nobody gave him credit for them far exceding their own true ability.

As for Boateng, I maintain he's just not that good a player. You can disagree all you like, I just don't rate him highly. Nowhere near good enough for this club, even now.

Saying they're "good" players is overrating them now?

And actually haven't we just finished an entire discussion based on how Ibra made them look better than they are? Allegri was the one actually playing Boateng in the AM position all along, something that he couldn't pull off without Ibra as this season has clearly shown us. So no, it wasn't Allegri that was smart enough to play him there, he was just lucky that it worked out becase of Ibra.

Pazzini because you've always liked him. Fair enough. Niang? You've only defended his positioning and not the player himself.

I don't see it as me overrating our players to make Allegri look bad. There's a core group of good players in this team which I personally like. I don't think I overrate them at all as they have shown that they are basically the best of the bunch throughout this season

I never said that Allegri didn't have cr@p to deal with because Galliani just upped and sold his 2 best players, OF COURSE that's a huge hit to take. But I still maintain that losing those 2 players shouldn't have meant the huge downward spiral we fell into this season