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Posted by: X-Offender Sep 1 2011, 09:05 PM

He was not included in the list for the group stages. Allegri's decision relates to Inzaghi's precarious physical condition. El Shaarawy was excluded as well. Below is the list of the 25 players.

Why the hell not El Shaarawy???

Posted by: han2503 Sep 1 2011, 09:08 PM

http://www.milannews.it/?action=read&idnotizia=60400

Posted by: han2503 Sep 1 2011, 09:09 PM

I don't get this, Pippo and El Sha left out, yet Rino and De Sciglio are include. What exactly is the thought behind this? Rino alone is suspended for nearly the entire group stage

Posted by: han2503 Sep 1 2011, 09:11 PM

lol, didn't notice that you posted this here. I posted the same thing in the news thread.

And yes the decision is riduculous, especially the addition of Rino as well seeing as he'll be suspended for the majority of the group stage matches (Thank GOD!!)

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 1 2011, 09:15 PM

Delete this thread. We'll talk about it in your topic.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 1 2011, 09:17 PM

Well, I wasn't counting on Inzaghi anyway. But I'm really annoyed at El Shaarawy. He should have been included instead of De Sciglio or Gattuso.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 1 2011, 09:22 PM

Merged it with mine and moved it to the news section.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 1 2011, 09:34 PM

Shame about Pippo, but not entirely unexpected. Odd decision not to include El Shaarawy though.

I do think though, looking at our squad in a list like that, it's not all that bad at all.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 1 2011, 09:37 PM

Okay, I may have my stupid cap on, but why is Inzaghi excluded from the CL, exactly? Seeing as he is pretty much figured out in the league, and is not nearly as effective domestically than he is in Europe. And isn't adding to his continental tally one of the biggest reasons he wanted to play these extra few years?

Somebody slap me! Or at least give me the reason. Injury? Form? Fitness? Limited space? Better players available?

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 1 2011, 09:40 PM

Posted by: acid911 Sep 1 2011, 09:48 PM

Yeah, I got that, but surely he could be back for the late stages of the group matches? Or can't he? I mean, for all it's worth, our knockout adventure could again last the total of two matches if we get a tough team. Though admittedly, I am not too up-to-date on Inzaghi's injury and recovery, but surely if he's getting 100% soon, then he could have been there instead of De Sciglio.

And as for leaving Gattuso out, good luck with that! He's probably going to bring the roof of the San Siro falling if anyone tried to tinker with his name on the list. And yes, I'd much rather have El Shaarawy there than him.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 1 2011, 09:51 PM

De Sciglio is there because you need a certain amount of home grown players (4). It was either him or another youngster so that doesn't matter.

El Shaarawy should have been there instead of Rino or Bonera, but if he proves to be a useful player, he can always be added to the list after the winter transfer window.

Posted by: Dracoris Sep 1 2011, 09:59 PM

Isn't El Sha young enough that he doesn't have to be on the list? I remember Pato used to not be on the list and was playable.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 1 2011, 10:04 PM

He's 18. If I remember correctly, a player under 21 has to play at least 2 years at the club to receive a free pass.

Posted by: nuh Sep 1 2011, 10:07 PM

El shaarawy i think will still be able to play since he is young, i remember someone saying once that younger players should be able to play without being registered...dunno if i'm wrong though :s

Posted by: servbot Sep 1 2011, 10:41 PM

This is the dumbest thing I've heard today, and that's significant because it's been quite a day for me to hear of dumb things.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 1 2011, 10:47 PM

Honestly, I don't think Inzaghi can make that much of a difference. Sure, Europe has always been his favorite turf, but the guy is 38, continuously dealing with physical problems. IMO he should just hang the boots and call it a day. Not everyone can be a Maldini. And even Paolo was rather poor at that age.

Posted by: servbot Sep 1 2011, 11:07 PM

He very well might not be able to make a difference, but the same thing could have been said last year and he scored those two big goals against Madrid before getting hurt.

Plus as others have said he certainly could offer more than a guy who's suspended for 4 games, and is questionable even when he gets to play again.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 1 2011, 11:43 PM

Key phrase: before getting hurt. I said it all those months ago that a player of 38 years could never properly recover from such a grave injury. Not to mention that Inzaghi has always been injury prone during his entire career.

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Sep 2 2011, 01:01 AM

Inzaghi not being selected I do not understand at all.

El Shaarawy doesn't need to be registered as he is under the age of 21.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 2 2011, 02:21 AM

Incorrect.

In short, There is an A list - 25 players we submitted yesterday. And there is B list for under 21 players, but those under 21 players need to be at the club for at least two seasons after turning 15. So El Shaarawy is out.

Posted by: Bluesummers Sep 2 2011, 06:42 AM

El Sha's 17 guys comon. Lets not throw him into the firepit yet. Lets let him adapt to Serie A first then we can talk about europe.

Posted by: William405 Sep 2 2011, 11:15 AM

Doesn't being 17 qualify him to be registered in the under 18 list or something?

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 2 2011, 11:58 AM

Nyope. Check out the other Jack's post.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 2 2011, 12:29 PM

BTW, El Shaarawy is not 17, he'll be 19 next month.

Posted by: William405 Sep 2 2011, 12:43 PM

Ah totally missed that,thanks for the info.

Silly rules if you ask me .

Posted by: dst Sep 2 2011, 01:09 PM

we're only being fair, it would just be too easy with Inzaghi.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 2 2011, 01:16 PM

You are two years off.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 2 2011, 02:16 PM

Apparently Inzaghi is furious for being excluded from the list, and he might leave in January.

http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/mercato/mercato/articoli/11787/pillole-di-calciomercato.shtml#par4

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 2 2011, 02:25 PM

i think he only wanted to play in the UCL and maintain his goal scoring, i think Milan made a blunder by excluding him from UCL

Posted by: acid911 Sep 2 2011, 02:25 PM

Apparently, Gattuso is not the only one then who can bring down the roof of San Siro.

Posted by: Suhail 3 Sep 2 2011, 02:54 PM

The forwardline has me licking my lips, cant wait for our champions league journey to begin.

Posted by: amancik Sep 2 2011, 04:19 PM

Maybe we're counting on Inzaghi in the knockout stages?

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 2 2011, 06:11 PM

Depends on his physical condition. Allegri said that he would add him to the list if Pippo is fully healthy.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 2 2011, 06:49 PM

I wonder, when did Inzaghi become so important to us? We've got four world class strikers at disposal, and you people worry about a 38-year-old injured player? Just let it go, really.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 2 2011, 07:08 PM

Oh, you have no idea! The ultras - and should I say, right-wing supporters - are going nuts over his exclusion. I mean stuff like Inzaghi could score playing on one-leg, blindfolded, and both hands tied behind his back even if he is 89 years old. Talk about reason, man. Sense and sensibility.

Oh well, whatever floats their root beer. And here I thought Maldini was the club icon of the last two decades. And look what he got. Mr. Inzaghi here, as important as he was in the past (and still could be), threatens to leave the club, or asks not to have his #9 shirt retired (I mean, really?) when no one asked him that it will be. He is a fan favorite, and fan favorites sort of get their way by hook or crook. So does another one of our senior, Gattuso (who after giving away the worst performance from a Milan player I have seen in a derby, and getting himself sent off in the process) ups it up by headbutting an official in a CL match, with half the world watching. And then gets away with it.

Give me a Paolo, Nesta, heck even an Ambrosini over a million of these prima donnas any day of week. But I guess that's how things are run now-a-days. I still think Inzaghi can be useful if used correctly, and hopefully he gets fit as soon as he can and shows his magic. At least, he's not taking space a la Seedorf and blocking the club from nurturing a new generation #10.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 2 2011, 09:27 PM

Now, now, you're making Inzaghi sound evil, when in fact he's a very nice and sensible guy. The fact he got angry for being excluded from the competition is only natural. But then again, I say it's his own damn fault. He can't expect to play at his age in such high levels anymore. Not to mention his physical conditions get worse by the day. He should have either chosen to play for a small club or end his career straight away as a winner.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 2 2011, 09:43 PM

No, not evil. Just a bit full of himself. And not to mention, a tad selfish too (all big players are, they have to be) in the sense that for him the biggest thing is scoring a few extra goals in the CL. He's pretty much figured out in the domestic league, really. For a guy who's won everything, around 35 is a good age to either hang the boots.

Or like you said, he should have either chosen to play for a small club. Maybe his youth/favorite club.

Posted by: Zed.D Sep 3 2011, 09:40 AM

Both immensely wise decisions IMO.

Posted by: CHU-LIP Sep 3 2011, 11:19 AM

No, I think Inzaghi made a blunder by staying with Milan. He should have known that his chances to play games for Milan were very thin since Milan got many forwards better than he is nowadays. Yeah, and if he now is pissed and wanna leave in January. Well, that's his choice, a half year too late, Pippo.

And I don't get why X-Offender acts like excluding El Shaarawy is a crazy thing to do. Based on what should he have been included then? And I remember that the young dude needed a lot of months to get in the right shape (getting physical stronger) for Milan their games (obviously a difference with lower league and youth cup games).

For how many games is Gattuso suspended exactly? I thought 5? But am not sure. If so, kinda unnecessary call-up.

Could it be De Sciglio got called up because he is from own youth and (for example) he was needed to be called up to reach the necessary amount of home-grown players in the list?

Posted by: han2503 Sep 3 2011, 12:03 PM

Yeah De Sciglio got called up because of the home grown players quota which I think is 4...

The biggest blunder is calling up Gattuso, who aside from being suspended from most of the group stage matches, is just aweful and shouldn't be on the pitch for us, especially not in the Barca games (I think he'll be available for the return in the San Siro ). Allegri seemingly doesn't want to learn his lesson in regards to Rino, everywhere I go whether it's a forum or talking to people, they still can't understand why Rino get's anywhere near the pitch for Milan let alone being an automatic starter. It's just ridiculous. I don't even think that a huge mistake from Rino would dether Allegri from playing him.

And you can bet your @ss that if the suspension is over for the return leg against Barca, that Gattuso will be one of the first name on that list

As for Pippo. The only reason the man stayed on was to increase his CL tally. Yet he's just spent an entire season injured and it's looking more and more likely like another repeat this season. His body simply cannot handle it anymore, and when you have Galliani contantly complaining about money, then you have to ask, what is the thinking behing giving Pippo another contract? He's mostly going to cost us money this season by sitting on the treatment table for another season while collecing another paycheck that our club seems so happy to give to veteran who don't really deserve it.

I don't know how much Pippo, Seedorf and Ambro got in their new contract, but Rino is on 3m, so I can guess they're on something similar, which is ridiculous, especially when we're passing on players, actual good players for the their wage demands

Posted by: CHU-LIP Sep 3 2011, 12:25 PM

Pippo earns way less than that if I'm not mistaken.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 3 2011, 12:39 PM

Let's say he earns around 1.5m to 2m. It's still a lot when you think about it, especially seeing as he'll be injured 75% of the time...

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 3 2011, 03:36 PM

You pretty much answered it yourself. Why leave an eligible player like El Shaarawy at home and include someone like Gattuso instead, who won't be playing 4 of the 6 games? Irrational.



Months? Aren't you exaggerating a little bit? He only missed the pre-season games because of his specialized training. I think he's ready to play now.

Anyway, I'm not crazy about it. It's not like El Shaarawy's presence will affect our path.

Posted by: CHU-LIP Sep 3 2011, 03:50 PM

Well, that's what I read. But I really don't know how El Shaarawy is doing, nor what to expect from him. Do you? Maybe Allegri simply prefers 25, or 24 since the home-grown stuff, over him. There isn't really a reason to say El Shaarawy can't be left out.

Well,, one of those two games is vs Barça. And the two Barça games are the tough ones, the other four games not really. And if Allegri think Gattuso is an useful asset vs Barça, then it maybe is not so weird for him to call up Gattuso.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 3 2011, 04:09 PM

Rino will be an asset, yes. But to Barca, not us

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 3 2011, 04:17 PM

Why should we let it go, do you mind me commenting or?

If you ask me, this is a stupid and Milan-unlike decision that can only be traced back to the clueless Allegri. Why not include Inzaghi, when you're playing in a group with Pilsen and BATE Borisov? It's not that this is a list of 22 players; and then at the same stroke include Rino who cannot be played for 4 out of 6 matches?

I think the inclusion of Inzaghi would not mind anyone; hell he scored 2 goals against Real Madrid just last year. And yes, he had an injury, but he managed to come back from his injuries earlier in his career why wouldn't he be able to do so now? Isn't this supposed to be some kind of a big goodbye for him, for god sake, we're playing BATE and Pilsen, we're not in some kind of a death group!

He's been nothing but consistent in Europe and I think he was a nice bonus, a player that would be full of motivation against the weak teams, while players like Seedorf and some others exactly miss that kind of determination in such matches.

What makes me even angrier is that it sounds like Pippo was expecting to be included; Allegri should have made his intentions earlier clear and give Pippo a chance to leave. He surely knows how much Pippo is motivated by playing in Europe, so he could have at least told him that before season start - that would have been fair.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 3 2011, 04:25 PM

Fair enough. He could definitely have adjusted with some other CL team, even via a one-year loan agreement. I'm sure there is no malicious intent from Allegri, it's more down to his naivety and clueless decision-making. But then, he included Gattuso, who really has little business in the group stages. What with the army of DMs at our disposal.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 3 2011, 04:45 PM

Yup, just like his exclusion won't affect our plans at all.



Err, because he's 38? It's impossible to recover from gave injuries when being so old. The majority of players have retired by that age.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 3 2011, 04:50 PM

Impossible? I wouldn't say impossible, I think Pippo has recovered. Anyway, this inclusion would mean a great deal to Pippo, while at the same time also only good to us; yet he did not do it. I don't think it's immensely wise, for something to be immensely wise you need to actually achieve something positive out of it. What's positive here? I wouldn't say a word if Allegri decided to keep for example talents like Berretta or Paloschi and test them against or CL opposition.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 3 2011, 05:12 PM

Nope, Pippo suffered another injury just a couple of days ago. He was supposed to play alongside El Shaarawy against Como. It's the third injury for him only this summer.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 3 2011, 06:11 PM

Hmh, I missed that one out. Still, I don't think it's something we should be happy about; just because it was so special to Pippo and at the same time so unimportant for us this should have been done.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 3 2011, 06:31 PM

Pippo recovered from bad injuries before, but it's really really hard to comeback from 8 month injury at 38. And we seeing it this summer, when he can't get back to a normal physical condition and only played less than 45 minutes of pre season, and even that was a month and a half ago in our first game (vs Solbiatese).

Allegri hasn't talked to him beforehand because it was a difficult last minutes decision. They talked right after, and Max explained him his reasoning. Yes, Rino will be available for only 2 out of 6 group stage games, but Pippo would have probably not be seeing any playing time at all since we have 4 top forwards ahead of him and he can't stay fit at all recently. If he able to come back to a reasonable form, he'd be added to the list in the winter.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 3 2011, 07:23 PM

The only thing that bothers me from that list is Rino, and imo that is a statement from Allegri, meaning Rino is still top priority on his list and he views him as an integral part of this team.

Rino will cost us big this season if he's allowed to be a starter, whether that's a humiliation ala last season vs Tottenham or a crucial mistake. He's just not good enough anymore to be anything more then a Coppa starter

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 3 2011, 07:38 PM

Absolutely. I'm curious though, now that we signed Nocerino, will Allegri still consider Gattuso as an absolute starter?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 3 2011, 07:50 PM

I think only Ibra is an absolute starter in his eyes.

Posted by: Dracoris Sep 3 2011, 07:53 PM

I've barely seen Noverino play and I'm convinced hes a starter, at least over Gattuso. Surely Allegri feels the same? I guess we'll see on Friday.

Posted by: CHU-LIP Sep 3 2011, 08:15 PM

Thiago Silva? (Abbiati?)

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 3 2011, 09:06 PM

Yep, Silva and Abbiati as well, but I think Amelia could also have a fair shot if he was any good.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 4 2011, 10:50 AM

Don't know, aside from him being the captain and favoured over Ambro for that title, or so it seems, I'm inclined to believe that Rino will still be the starter in that position. Nocerino will, imo, have to wrestle that position from Rino and Allegri. He has to make himself a sure pick for the 11. My only question is will he be given the chance over Rino?

Posted by: CHU-LIP Sep 4 2011, 12:02 PM

Ambrosini is still our captain. What makes you think Gattuso is? Because of that one game? It was because Ambrosini got subbed in rather than started the game he didn't wear the armband.

Allegri got rid of Pirlo and didn't call up Pippo for CL. So I figure Gattuso needs to preform to remain a starter. I think both have the chance to be a starter. It depends on their preformances.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 4 2011, 03:45 PM

I think you misunderstood what I was saying.

Ambro and Rino are imo, equal on the captain front, but Rino is obviously favoured over the 2 since Ambro is usually overlooked when Rino is available. Rino is still captain or co-captain whatever you want to call it. But between him and Ambro Allegri will pick Rino every time.

As for no captains being present, I'd contest that statment, Abbiati has been at Milan for a loong time, same ges for Nesta and Seedorf. All of these guys can do the job, most probably better then the current 2 official captains. Imo neither of them has any business being on the pitch. Their current "good" performance is still shocking imo, from Rino letting everyone go by him to Ambro hacking everything down in sight. They're just not good enough to be starters anymore. The only problem is Allegri and his backwards mentality in that regards

Posted by: acid911 Sep 4 2011, 03:48 PM

And here I was thinking Ambro was a couple of years senior to Gattuso. Definitely, he is the default captain after Paolo Maldini. And he is usually the guy who lifts the trophies and cups. Gattuso is 2nd in command, just like he was 3rd in command in the Age of Maldini.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 4 2011, 03:57 PM

Yeah, Ambro is the official captain for when it comes to such things, but on the pitch, it's the same thing, if both are on, Ambro wears it, but these days Gattuso has the majority of playing time. So does it really make sense that Ambro barely saw the pitch last season yet came out to lift the trophy?

Imo, the club needs to make a solid decision. Give the captaincy to a regular starter. Ambro is certainly not that and I'm very hopeful to see Rino lose his spot this season thanks to Nocerino, who has been impressive for years now. He's definately 10 times better then the current Rino that's for sure, my only concern is that Allegri continues to be a stubborn @ss about it

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 4 2011, 10:45 PM

What is this? Allegri cutting Pippo from the CL list!?

I fail to see where he is going with this, other than pointing SuperPippo to the door

If anything, Inzaghi at 38 is only still in this game because of his desire to become top scorer in Europe .. Allegri you are not doing yourself justice. The guy is 38, this is probably his last season .. You should have given our hero the least we can ever give to him - CL fixtures, he has never failed us in them.

Maybe he wants to do a Mourinho, when he sent Raul packing

But what am I doing? Venting for a lost cause.


Now it is being reported that Atalanta and Parma are willing to take Inzaghi on-board. It is my dream to see Inzaghi hang up his boots under the Curva at San Siro. Also, a couple of goals in his last outings in CL would only spice things up further for his farewell.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 4 2011, 10:58 PM

Well at least the news section is alive again. 64 replies and 949 views. Just like the good old day!

Posted by: CHU-LIP Sep 4 2011, 11:00 PM

Meh...

Allegri didn't pick Pippo cuz he thinks it's best for the team to pick the other 24 over him + De Sciglio for that quotum.

And the team >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pippo's (or anyone's) individual record ...it's a team sport after all.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 5 2011, 12:09 AM

It is, but I'm sure the team would support Pippo's inclusion.

Posted by: CHU-LIP Sep 5 2011, 12:14 AM

The players/team would for sure, but that's not the point. It's just Allegri finds the other 21 players more valuable (not counting goalkeepers and De Sciglio) than Pippo currently.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 5 2011, 12:27 AM

Gattuso being more valuable, I see where your coming from

Posted by: CHU-LIP Sep 5 2011, 12:55 AM

?

Posted by: han2503 Sep 5 2011, 11:25 AM

What he meant that a banned Gattuso is more valuable then Pippo

Simply put he's not. Pippo being left out might have many reasons behind it, maybe he just won't be fit enough for any of the games, we don't know what kind of injury he's suffered, and it's not looking good, after a season long lay off, he comes back for a week and is injured once again. It's not looking good for Pippo. And someone on another board mentioned this and I had to agree, it's not fair to the other 4 strikers who will be working their @sses off in the league and then Pippo gets a free access card into a CL match simply for a personal record.

Either way, the only thing that p!sses me off on that list is Rino

Posted by: CHU-LIP Sep 5 2011, 02:02 PM

That Inzaghi isn't valuable at the moment is a conclusion we seem to follow. Gattuso on the other hand is match fit, and was starter last season, and so it makes sense Allegri seems him as valuable. That people like you, han, don't think so as obvious as snow being white. Even though it's for me questionable whether he still should be a starter or not, he's still valuable in my opinion and belongs to our main eight midfield options. Of course the ban makes him only valuable for two matches, but one from them is vs Barça. And vs Barça is a team you want enough defensive midfielders available so let's I follow Allegri on this. Of course I also follow when han doesn't, since he prolly wouildn't include Gattuso in the CL squad even when he could have played all six games.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 5 2011, 02:14 PM

Inzaghi is as valuable as Rino is imo. 1 will be injured, while the other suspended, what's the difference?

And yes he is still a good player to have in case of injuries as such, but we're talking 2 games here, and the Barca games might be even less important then the one we're playing in a couple of days, simply because the group will most likely be already decided by then.

And let's not kid ourselves, Rino will be far from a difference maker, if he steps onto the pitch against Barca then expect that side to get ripped apart and for Rino to get sent off at some point, simply because he couldn't handle Barca's midfield, he might be DM by name, but these days his position title should be AR - Aimless Runner.

Also, I think we established that stuffing our midfield with 1 dimensional DMs like Rino and Ambro won't help our cause one bit against Barca, simply because they'll lose posessiong more then they'll win balls.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 5 2011, 02:16 PM

What are you talking about? He's match fit, a regular team player and suspended as well. Where's there the benefit for the team? I think Allegri is only playing him because of a peculiar fixation on him, he prefers him to a much better Ambrosini, he obviously gave that spot to him as a gift, while at the same time he played hard-ball with Pippo.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 5 2011, 02:18 PM

And one more thing...Inzaghi has done for Milan more last season then Rino, and that even with his long-term injury. I think that speaks for itself.

Posted by: CHU-LIP Sep 5 2011, 02:25 PM

I'm talking about Pippo keeps struggling with injuries and therefore his fitness, unlike most players like Gattuso. And the doesn't matter who has done more in the past, and I actually disagree there also.

The benefit is having Gattuso in our 2nd Barça meeting + that other match...

Conclusion: Allegri thinks Gattuso for two games is more valuable than Pippo being available for all six games, and I cannot disagree. If Pippo isn't good/fit enough, he should simply not play... better a fit useful player for two games then

Posted by: acid911 Sep 5 2011, 02:36 PM

Or maybe he's afraid of the character that is Gattuso. Leonardo benched him and paid the price. Allegri is just running with the water, I reckon, because there is no way the coach has enough authority on the squad that has been here ten times longer than Allegri. Maybe even the management is in all this - as a background entity.

Leaving Inzaghi out when the whole world knew that he is here only for the CL goals, means the coach is either very clever or very stupid. I personally think he isn't alone in all this. Things rarely are as black and white as they seem. Having said that, I also believe that no one individual should hold a club hostage - be it a player or a coach. The institution is always - and I mean ALWAYS - bigger than any individual.

And by holding hostage I mean either throwing tantrums behind the doors, or making stupid gestures while being substituted, giving deadly statements to the media, or chanting lethal chants with fans at the end of the season. Anything and everything these players are (including Paolo Maldini, who I think is a titan) is because of the club. And the club is everything because of us fans. Still, nothing - and no one - is bigger than the club.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 5 2011, 03:22 PM

You said it, acid. Allegri plays Gattuso in order to keep an important ally inside the locker room. Gattuso is one of the senators, his word weights a lot. I very much doubt that Allegri plays him for his footballing skills, which are close to none nowadays.

Posted by: CHU-LIP Sep 5 2011, 03:35 PM

That's simply the opinion of you, han and others. Enough other people sees that different, and Allegri seems to be one of them. I know enough people who think Gattuso did well for us last season, including myself.

It's opinion vs opinion. When I read the comments on this thread, you guys act like it's all a fact that he's **** and he only plays cuz of who/how he is. Meh... imo that's bs, cuz Allegri proved with Pirlo and Pippo do be stronger than that. He does what HE thinks is best for the team (not what YOU think is best).

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 5 2011, 03:45 PM

And I shed a tear...



We'll see what's best for the team when we get our asses handed over by Barça, because of Allegri playing his precious and decrepit midfield.

Posted by: CHU-LIP Sep 5 2011, 03:47 PM

You're weird, and annoying.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 5 2011, 03:52 PM

I love you too.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 5 2011, 04:14 PM

Awww, how lovely My favorite couple

Posted by: han2503 Sep 5 2011, 07:28 PM

Agreed


Gattuso will most likely only be a benefit to another team, especially Barca

I'm already having nightmares of him coming up against Iniesta and Messi

Conclusion: Allegri is full of BS if you ask me. This season will be the true test of his credentials. Let's all hope he doesn't mess it up. But so far his decisions have not instilled any faith in me. Fact is, he botched it big time last season in the CL, and continued to let Gattuso make a mokery out of things after the stunts he pulled against Spurs.


Let me count the amount of people that thought Rino was actually good last season, wait give me a minute to think of these people, 1st there's you, then there's............................... Oh wait, that's only you.

Rino ranged from average to bad last season, he never got anywhere near good. From players making a mokery out of what Rino used to once be to him fouling and acting like a nutter on the biggest stage. Rino last season was just plain bad, and the fact that that meant that he was better then the season before that only shows how far off his best Rino has fallen. He was always a player that depended on his physicality, and now that that has abandoned him, he simply cannot keep up anymore. Allegri has ulterior motives and reasons for playing Rino. I'm pretty sure he's not blind or that stupid

Posted by: Dracoris Sep 6 2011, 02:55 PM

Inzaghi needs to suck it up or the media needs to shut up. Ever since this happened its like the only story on Milannews. I can understand why he's angry but its not THAT big of a deal.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 6 2011, 03:38 PM

Well, it probably was one of the biggest or the biggest motive in his recuperation process. I can understand his frustration. Allegri once more proved he's not a man of finesse.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 6 2011, 06:02 PM

Inzaghi is still very angry about the whole thing. He doesn't speak to anyone at Milanello.

http://www.sportmediaset.mediaset.it/calcio/milan/articoli/1841/milan-inzaghi-e-ancora-nero.shtml?refresh_cens

Posted by: acid911 Sep 6 2011, 06:03 PM

Gee. I'm speechless.

Posted by: Dracoris Sep 6 2011, 10:24 PM

The guy needs to take it like a man and prove to Allegri why (If) he was wrong on the field.

Posted by: Zed.D Sep 7 2011, 09:15 AM

You'd expect more professionalism from someone with his age and experience. he's acting like a big child.

I think Allegri did the right thing. Pippo was coming from a severe injury, and there's a bunch of great strikers already available. what did he expect? there is a limit, you can't keep on playing until late 30's and expect to always be picked as well after not having played for months.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 7 2011, 10:00 AM

Ungrateful, it disgusts me how our heros are treated on this forum.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 7 2011, 10:04 AM

And you think Allegri would/will give him the chance?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 7 2011, 10:08 AM

He's not expecting to be picked up always nor does he want first team football or something surreal. He just wanted to get a chance against teams like BATE and Pilsen, where he could score a goal even with 45. I don't think it's that much to ask - Milan always was gracious to their former stars, even Ibrahim Ba got a similar treatment at a time where he was half of the footballer Pippo is today. Why did we stopped to act the same way now?

A bunch of great strikers? Let's see...Ibra, Pato, Cassano, Robby? Can't you imagine a 5th there with them?

Posted by: acid911 Sep 7 2011, 10:10 AM

You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. And that's that.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 7 2011, 10:28 AM

If you think people only react this way on this forum think again. A LOT of Milan fans feel that our senators have over stayed their welcome, and they do voice these frustrations. Sure there are the nostalgic ones who still believe that we can actually compete while carrying Rino in the starting 11, but it's not realistic. Not in today's football. And I'm sorry, I might love a player, I'm personally still a huge Rino fan, but I love the club more, and him still being given a starting position is hurting the team.

Not saying that Pippo's situation is the same, but I think it is a bit selfish for him to expect time in the CL, especially when there are 4 other strikers who work their @sses off in the league every week. If Pippo is really behaving the way he is then I am disappointed, yes he's given a lot to Milan, but Milan has given a lot to him, never forget that. Him acting the way he is is not good for the club and the players, especially when he's supposed to be an example to his younger peers. If he's mad at Allegri, then fair enough, it's in his own right, but responding in such a petulant way is not going to hep anyone. He should put his head down and work his @ss off to get fit and prove to Allegri that he is worthy of that spot and that Allegri made a mistake by not picking him. Sulking and not talking to anyone will only put him in a worse spot.


If he's not fit then he would have likely missed the majority of the group games, and he seems to be picking one injury after another. No one knows what his physical status is, aside from the medical team and Allegri himself. And as I said above, it's selfish on Pippo's part to expect such a luxury. His record is not as important as Milan.

I agree that Allegri leaving him out is cold, especially with Rino suspended for nearly the entire group match. But we don't know what the actual circumstances are.


Agreed. Most fans are beginning to see, what were once their great idols, as a hindrance to the team. And personally I cannot fault them for feeling this way, no matter how much I used to admire and follow these players. I'm a Milan fan first and foremost.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 7 2011, 10:34 AM

Yeah man, and it's not like his record is going to stay for ever. That little creep from Barcelona is going to overrun it within a few years. Besides, strikers usually are the first to close their account, most of them as soon as they turn 30. I'm not saying Inzaghi can't cut it now, he probably still can in Europe, but surely he plans to hang his boot, does he?

If not now, then next year, or a season after that. But really, don't disturb the atmosphere of the locker room. No one's going to benefit because of this - not Inzaghi, not the players, neither the management, and definitely nor the fans.

Posted by: Zed.D Sep 7 2011, 10:54 AM

It disgusts you to see that I expect Pippo to show more professionalism and respect the decision of his coach? how typically right-wing-ish of you

And what the BEEP does it have to do with being ungrateful? I am grateful for what he's done, especially the Athens final. does it mean I accept his childish behavior like not talking to anyone in Milanello just because he wasn't included in the CL list? no.

In my opinion, no one except Maldini and Billy was/is above criticism. not even heroes like Sheva, Pippo, Rino, Kaka, Ambro, etc.


You're making a drama out it. Pippo isn't being treated badly and the fact that we keep renewing with him every season proves this. he wants a chance against Bate and Pilsen? so does any other player. so what? it's not like it gives Pippo any right or advantage over the rest. what gives Pippo the disadvantage (and to Max the right to exclude him from the list for now) however, is his age and physical condition.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 7 2011, 11:10 AM

Hey, that's my dialogue you stole! Just kidding! But yeah, really, Allegri played his card, and now it's up to Inzaghi to play his. He can behave and earn respect from the fans/media and return as warrior when he does get his chance. Or he can be the Italian incarnation of Neymar and behave like a bad boy!

Posted by: Zed.D Sep 7 2011, 11:41 AM

And there I thought I'd coined a new cool term

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 7 2011, 01:08 PM

Exactly what I suspected, you don't seem to get it .. I wish he would just stop playing. It wasn't worth all the pain and agony that he went through for you guys, you just turn your back on him.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 7 2011, 02:04 PM

Well, you should try to be a bit less biased. It's not only nostalgic - hey, we actually won the scudetto with Rino, Ambro, Clarence, Pippo, Sandro and the others. So saying it's not realistic to expect us winning with them is self-redundant. I'm not gonna argue weather we've won with them or, like some would say, despite them - fact stays - the all contributed to the victory.

So a modus vivendi including both the senators and the new players and youngsters is possible, and there is no reason to label fans nostalgic only because they appreciate times that only happened a moment ago. Sometimes you make me feel like I'm speaking about Gianni Rivera and Lorenzo Buffon, not Pippo or Ambro.

I think appreciation of history and records is a important part of Milan, or at least was. I think that exactly such small and unimportant steps, like paying Redondo his wages even if he was terribly injured or picking up Ibrahim Ba from a third-class team back to Serie A is what Milan makes Milan; those steps may seem comic to some, even unwise, but in the end they create and form a mentality and atmosphere that is unique.


It's easy to be wise from a sofa or chair, but I'm always trying to understand people. In the end, everyone acts childish and everyone has feelings, I don't think we're in a position to judge those people because we know to little of what actually is happening or happened.


It isn't, but his will and morale would be immensely important to Milan in those matches.


Haha, I don't think even you believe in what you said. No, he has not the advantage over anyone and yes he has a disadvantage - at the same time he has a big motivational advantage. Just remember Real Madrid. I'm convinced that he could do such things again with his motivation, and that gives him the edge over a match-tired Ibra or a inconsistent Pato or Robinho. Every of those guys has a disadvantage, and Pippo's clearly is his health, but I don't think any of the 4 strikers would mind Pippo playing 30 minutes against BATE.

Posted by: Dracoris Sep 7 2011, 03:33 PM

I mean no disrespect but quit being a drama Queen.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 7 2011, 03:47 PM

Nope, I used it in this thread itself. Take a look at this post below I made on September 2. I'd say you missed the patent by what a week or so. But that's alright, anyone can pay the royalties and use the phrases, LOL. Just like Apple has been suing smartphone makers left and right. Here:

http://www.milanfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7756&st=0&p=304651&#entry304651

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 7 2011, 03:47 PM

Isn't he free to address his opinion?

Posted by: Zed.D Sep 7 2011, 03:57 PM

So the reason Pippo is so angry at being excluded from the list and isn't talking to anyone in Milanello is because he was deprived of serving us Milan fans and he's oh so sad about it... thanks for reminding me. I thought it had more something to do with his personal ambitions (which isn't a bad thing at all).



You don't think coming back from a n-month injury has anything to do with his exclusion? fine, but I think it does. let's just move on, OK?

Surely if Pippo proves to be in a good condition again, he will be added to the list in January. there'll be potentially a few games left.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 7 2011, 03:59 PM

Yeah, potentially, if Allegri doesn't scr@w up and let Pilsen go through instead.

It certainly does have to do with it, why wouldn't it think so? I don't get what you mean?

Posted by: Zed.D Sep 7 2011, 04:04 PM

Come on now. even without a coach we should be able to beat those teams! (to the 2nd spot)

I don't get what you guys mean. he was excluded and Max had a reason or two for it. so, what's the problem?

Posted by: han2503 Sep 7 2011, 04:54 PM

The age doesn't really factor into it for me, have I ever said anything about Nesta? No, simply because he's still great, therefore he should be playing. In fact Nesta was a huge part of winning it. Rino on the other hand was not, we played with a ghost on the right side of midfield and I don't even know how you would even begin to deny this. Seedorf is a different matter, he's still a genius as long as he's not tired or bored, if either of those things occur then we have issues with him, but then again, that's always been the case with Seedorf.

You can be nostalgic for something that happened yesterday, and imo some of the senators in the team have gotten way past their expiry date, yet they continue to trudge on, whether it's for their own personal benefit or because they cannot let go, I don't know, but at some point you have to say enough. Pippo might still have a few big goals left in him, but what else? He's not fit, injury prone and we have 4 other strikers who come in ahead of him. Sure 30 minutes against the Czech team or whoever wouldn't have hurt anyone, but surely Allegri must have had a reason for keeping him out.

As for winning with them, sure we were able to carry someone like Rino in the league, but look where that got us in the CL, and we'll end up the same way this season if Allegri continues to insist on it.


Had this behaviour been carried out by anyone else on the team aside from a select few, you wouldn't have condoned it. Fact here is, Pippo should be an example, and if the reports are true then imo he should be ashamed. Like I said, he might have done a lot for Milan, but Milan has done a lot for Pippo as well. Let's not forget all the other serious injuries Pippo has gotten and Milan have always stuck by him

And no it's not a sofa, it's an office chair, it swivels, has wheels and everything

Posted by: Dracoris Sep 7 2011, 05:53 PM

I'm also free to express mine, Fillipo, even when you don't agree with it.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 7 2011, 07:03 PM

Did I said anything different? Absurd

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 7 2011, 07:08 PM

Are you sure? I think it's Allegris smallclub mentality, and nothing more: he's done it with Pirlo, to an instant also to Ambro and now to Pippo. I don't think Pippo is a saint either, but IMO this whole talk could have been avoided with him being selected instead of Gattuso. No one would be hurt, no one would complain.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 7 2011, 08:15 PM

Inzaghi, and they still don't get it .. I wonder why the San Siro exploded on the 14th of May 2011.

He has a right to be pissed at Allegri, and I don't blame him one bit! Especially after coming back from his last injury, the gaffer has his ideas, but it all boils down to Inzaghi's motivational factors being suppressed. And yes turn a blind eye on this matter, its not like his sentiments mean anything to you. Specifically after proving you wrong time and again.


But what do you care, now that you have Ibra, Pato, Robinho and Cassano

Posted by: Dracoris Sep 7 2011, 10:02 PM

DID I? I was simply saying not to act like it was the end of the world and you come in here and tell me that somehow that translated into me telling him his opinion wasn't warranted, which it is. Something tells me that if you agreed with me on this stance you would've NEVER posted that. Just because you don't like me, doesn't give you the right to act like that.



@R7: If in any way you feel like your opinion was unwanted, Sorry. That was not the intention of my post, though I have a feeling you already knew that.

And in response to your post: Inzaghi has a right to be mad. Sure. De Sciglio over him? Yea thats crazy. But to walk around and not talk to anyone at Milanello? That's acting like a baby and he needs to man up. I don't think anyone on here doubts what Inzaghi has done for this club.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 7 2011, 10:14 PM

What are you talking about?? Honestly?? Who said I don't like you? How do you know what I'd post or not? I mean no disrespect but quit being a drama Queen - in this sentence you did. Anyway, let's move on, no hard feelings.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 7 2011, 10:28 PM

I don't think so, and I think in general, people tend to blame Allegri too much on this forum.

Fact is, Pippo is not fit and played only about 30-40 minutes of pre season, and even that was a month and a half ago. And he's coming from a difficult injury that not easy to comeback from at his age. Nobody here knows what his physical condition is at this moment, and based on set backs he's having in this preason, it's not that great. So the gamble that Rino, even with his ban, will be available for about the the same CL games as Pippo, or even more, is not that big. It's not such a wild decision, and Allegri made it clear that if Pippo will be fit and in a decent shape, he might add him to the list after the winter transfer window.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 7 2011, 11:12 PM

This.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 8 2011, 06:04 AM

I don't really think Allegri likes Pippo. He doesn't seem to like any player who cannot hustle. If you see Pippo play it can be maddening.

Except for that moment of magic when he puts the ball into the net and celebrates like a lunatic, you'll think you're playing with 10 men. On the other hand Rino has nothing but hustle. And Allegri seems to love it. So I have to put up with a man for whom after last season's antics my respect has dropped 200%.

Pippo being disrespectful for walking around without talking to people? Last season he signed an extension with the understanding that he was doing so in an attempt to break the goalscoring record. He's given enough and more to Milan, and the club isn't carrying him like they did Ba.

Disrespectful is if in a press conference you diss a coach's decision. Disrespectful is if you humiliate the colours you're wearing on the field of play. Disrespectful is if you act like a common hooligan just to trumpet your own decision.

Going by that yardstick...Rino is far more disrespectful than Pippo ever has been.

Right now you're assuming that Pippo is a d!ck for not talking to anyone...like he's been doing that for 2 days before the report came out and still is. Well, I assume I can think that Allegri acted like a jackass in letting Pippo find out only when the teamlist came out that he was not selected. This is a man who's done more for the club than Allegri ever has btw.... so...I can actually understand and forgive Pippo his moment of sulk. So I think if there had at least been the decency to talk to him beforehand this unfortunate situation could have been avoided. In fact wasn't it after the press blew it up, that Allegri said he would talk to Pippo and pick him up if he is fit yada yada yada....

Filipo is right..once again Allegri with his small club mentality is showing cluelessness in dealing with players. He is painting himself into a position where he will have to keep winning to keep the team united. The moment things get derailed he's going to lose that dressing room.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 8 2011, 09:38 AM

Its sad how things change so fast Fillipo; people telling Inzaghi to act professional and not show disrespect to the club. Pippo of all people

I don't know what Allegri's motive was, and frankly I don't care if it was a technical decision or a decision based on the player's health ... I just can not come to terms with it! Totally uncouth.



+1

Posted by: Zed.D Sep 8 2011, 11:19 AM

"We can't behave like crocodiles and cry over spilled milk and broken eggs."

Interesting quote.

-

On a side note, it's laughable to constantly accuse Allegri of having a small club mentality when he's just won a Scudetto with Milan.

I think quite the contrary, in this case small club mentality would be Allegri fearing to exclude Pippo from his list even though he thinks technically it's the right decision. and I don't for a second but the BS that he doesn't like Pippo. he must have had technical reasons for it, esp Pippo's fitness.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 8 2011, 11:44 AM

Winning a scudetto does not nullify that mentality. Zaccheroni is the best prove. Allegris way of handling things and solving things is constantly rough - he decides to cut off Pippo without even speaking to him first, he decides Pirlo isn't a priority any more, just like he decided to get rid of Ronaldinho - he solves his problems by removing them with the precision of a butcher. But that isn't even the point - the point is that he has no consistent policy, because every single decision has a counter-presedan. For example, he excludes Pippo because of physical uncertainty but at the same time includes a certainly suspended Gattuso, he let's go of Pirlo but at the same time holds onto Gattuso and Ambrosini like they would be more worth then Andrea, he practically banned Sokratis (who was awful) and at the same time plays Bonera on and on, not only as a CB, but as a left-back as well. There are more examples I can provide, but I think this will suffice.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 8 2011, 11:47 AM

Indeed. Those words my friend were used for depicting a team Trap tried to build, while this dispute we're having does not include a constructive nature.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 8 2011, 12:06 PM

Zeddie:

You're right...as a small team coach he could do much much worse.

But surely a big team coach is someone who can handle player egos. And not just trample over them. It's how you can get these players to play out of their skins when the chips are down.

Something as simple as talking to a player before announcing a decision is not too difficult?

Posted by: d'Arc.LP Sep 8 2011, 01:27 PM

"Exclusion of Pippo was a choice of coach and staff. The have their reasons. They know what they are doing." -- Gattuso.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 8 2011, 03:17 PM

Completely agree with you on all counts. However I don't buy it that he has anything against Pippo. Last season, at least, Allegri used to look to Pippo when we were backed into a corner, whether in the league or the CL, then he got injured. I don't think it's really anything personal, I do believe that his fitness is a big factor, but you make a good point when comparing it to Rino who is a definate out.


Rino should be the last to talk

Posted by: Dracoris Sep 8 2011, 03:25 PM

If Rino wasn't selected then would his suspension have been served if selected in January? That's probably why he was selected if true.

Posted by: servbot Sep 8 2011, 03:52 PM

I'm with R7 here. I've only been a fan for 2 years and haven't even seen most of Pippo's time here, but I still disagree with this decision.

There are 25 spots on the CL roster. Only a maximum of 14 players can play in any one game. It's ridiculous and a slap in the face to not have Pippo on the 25-man roster, and if when the time comes for each game, if he's not healthy/fit or good enough in comparison to our other strikers to play, leave him on the side with the other 10 guys on the roster who don't see match action.

Posted by: Zed.D Sep 8 2011, 07:03 PM

No he's not. Allegri could turn out to be another Zaccheroni or another Ancelotti (in terms of success). future will tell. but for now you can't make any assumptions about him as long as he keeps delivering.


OK, maybe it'd have been better to tell him beforehand but it wouldn't have made any difference. we'd still be arguing over his decision to exclude Pippo.

,
We won the Scudetto comfortably without Pirlo contributing much. and please let's not get started on what caused Pirlo to go again. if you still want to blame Max, go ahead. I think it wasn't solely up to him.


Unless you're a huge Dinho fanboy you'd agree this was a good decision which worked.


You complained Leo was soft and now you complain Max is rough. gee! I guess we'll always hear complaints unless of course it's Carlo we're talking about.


Maybe there's a reason, like this:

If Rino wasn't selected then would his suspension have been served if selected in January? That's probably why he was selected if true.

Does anyone know?


No one said Max is flawless, you're just mentioning some of his questionable decisions. what do they have to do with Pippo's exclusion? no matter how much you try, you can't prove that Max was wrong in his decisions because we're doing fine, already won 2 trophies with him, etc.

Posted by: Zed.D Sep 8 2011, 07:53 PM

I don't get this insistent to make Max look like a bad guy just because he's not treating your favorite players they way you want him to. and I never said he's suddenly a big team coach. I'm just disagreeing that he's a small team coach, simply because he's doing well at a big club. 2+2=4!

-




Inzaghi? I talked to him again the day after he was left out of the team list and I repeated what I had told him over the phone.

Doesn't this mean that he'd told Pippo before announcing it?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 8 2011, 08:03 PM

You answer in your first sentence with a negative response. Then you say only time will tell. But bottom line is, he will be a next Zach, trust me. I can judge a coach after some time, and Max ain't gonna turn into Ancelotti.


What's the difference? The difference is finesse, it's the small club and Milan mentality we're talking about.


Actually it wasn't comfortable at all. A zillion times we were saved by Ibra's individual brilliance or fluke goals like Rino's. In terms of creation we actually were not that good last season, and now that the competition has become stronger, you'll soon enough see what I'm talking about.


Look, you really can't tell weather it is good or not; in the end, we managed to cover the lack of creativity that Dinho provided, but that isn't the point. The point is that Allegri did not loose any time trying to fit Dinho into his equation, he just removed him.


Funny how you try to push my buttons. Well, I complained Leo was soft? When did I do that? That's a blatant invention. I certainly did not say that; I only told Leonardo is a amateur, was and still is.

As for Ancelotti, yes, out of the three coaches mentioned he's a brilliant coach. Still not even near to Sacchi or Capello though.


It's a pattern which will eventually lead to what Captain Jack suggested.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 8 2011, 08:07 PM

Haha. Mentality stays. One can become the prime minister or president of a vast country but still remain with the same provincial mentality. Others transform. Look at Zaccheroni, don't tell me his tactics, his way of handling things and his decisions were not typical for small club mentality?

Posted by: acid911 Sep 8 2011, 08:18 PM

Ha, this I can attest to. Heck, the president of my country is a corrupt little rag-tag with provincial mentality. And he's brought that stinking little xenophobic mentality to the nation. And did I mention he's corrupt?! Anyway, I agree, quite a few outgrow it, but the majority stays the same: A goldfish in a wild blue ocean. Dead soon, in other words.

Posted by: Zed.D Sep 8 2011, 08:19 PM

I'll keep that in mind, time will tell. I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with it though.


Did you read his quote I posted above?


A zillion times?

There were a couple of tricky situations that we managed to get out of thanks to some individual brilliance or just sheer luck, but once we got into gear, we moved on comfortably. from the derby onwards to be exact.


He didn't ask for Dinho, and the player himself hadn't done enough in the previous season to convince Max to use him. you can't gamble on a player like him in your first season as the coach of a club like Milan when it's basically make or break for you. but you never want to look at things from his pov...


I used to hear that term used for Leo all the time and it WAS true IMO - he was indeed soft. but sorry if it wasn't you.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 8 2011, 08:28 PM

No harm done. But what do you mean by soft? He was amateurish, I can only stay on my initial reassessment. He treated some players, like Pippo badly, others were his favorites. Naah, he made so many errors, I don't even wanna start thinking on him and the whole season.

Posted by: milanbuf88 Sep 8 2011, 10:42 PM

Funny I seem to remember Ancelotti treating Dinho the same way. He wasn't good enough to make up for the tactical rigidity he required. At least two of the last three coaches treated him that way and the one who didn't was, in your own words, an amateur.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 8 2011, 11:20 PM

Yes, but Carletto had the luxury to do so, because he had a fresher Seedorf and Kaka. He didn't need Ronaldinho as much as Allegri or Leonardo.

Posted by: Zed.D Sep 12 2011, 05:31 PM

Too soft as in too friendly, always being the kind guy that doesn't raise his voice at his players, etc. can't quite describe it, but he was soft!

I don't think he treated anyone "badly" really. maybe couldn't keep everyone happy but that's another thing.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 12 2011, 05:39 PM

+1. He was friendly. A bit too friendly for professional football.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 12 2011, 08:37 PM

No? Then you guys didn't watch closely enough. He treated Pippo almost as Allegri, he made him warm up almost every match he was available for 15 minutes or so, and then just forgot about him or picked someone else or brought him in at 90+. It was irritating as hell, you could see it on Pippo's face.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 12 2011, 08:52 PM

Well you can say pretty much every coach (in recent memory) did this. Heck, Carlo and Allegri even brought on Ronaldinho at the 89th or 90th minute, if this isn't disrespecting a player then I don't know what is?! Sure, treating badly has a broad meaning - it could mean how Alex Ferguson physically beat up David Beckham, or it could mean when a coach holds a grudge against a certain player. It could also mean misbehaving with a player in front of the world, in the media - just like Ibra and Barcelona's Pep.

Anyway, there is a bit of a chain of command here, the coach is the man responsible, so in this respect he has a higher authority than any player in the team. Huntelaar and Inzaghi did respect him for all intent and purposes, props to them. A dirty egg named Gattuso didn't. But that's just how it is. Such things have come up since there have been football coaches, and they will keep coming up until the day we find a way to not have coaches at all.

I'm not a fan of Leonardo, never have been, but even I can't deny he can treat anyone badly. Not selecting a player is another matter entirely, and he (or anyone else for that matter) had full authority to do so, as long as he was at the helm. Sure it could be wrong or right, that's subjective. Maybe he could have selected Inzaghi regularly (I do remember him making quite a few appearances that season). Just like he could have selected Huntelaar ahead of Borriello (the Dutchman has been tearing things up at Schalke, 25 goals in 41 matches, 0.61 goal ratio). But I've seen coaches do worse. At least he didn't do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dLArw8CBk0