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AC Milan - Milanfan.com _ Football Discussion _ [CL] Champions League 2012-13
Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Aug 11 2012, 09:38 PM
HOLDERS: Chelsea (English)
UEFA Champions League/European Cup Recent Winners (Since '92):
92/93 Marseille
93/94 AC Milan
94/95 Ajax
95/96 Juventus
96/97 Borussia Dortmund
97/98 Real Madrid
98/99 Manchester United
99/00 Real Madrid
00/01 Bayern Munich
01/02 Real Madrid
02/03 AC Milan
03/04 Porto
04/05 Liverpool
05/06 Barcelona
06/07 AC Milan
07/08 Manchester United
08/09 Barcelona
09/10 Inter Milan
10/11 Barcelona
11/12 Chelsea
Posted by: CHU-LIP Aug 12 2012, 03:34 AM
Can't wait for Luuk de Jong scoring the winner in the final. 
Posted by: Jack Bauer Aug 12 2012, 03:53 AM
Borussia will need to beat Kiev first, who bought several good player this offseason (Kranjcar, Raffael, Veloso...). Will be an interesting game.
Posted by: X-Offender Aug 12 2012, 07:47 AM
Borussia will need to beat Kiev first, who bought several good player this offseason (Kranjcar, Raffael, Veloso...). Will be an interesting game.You forgot to mention Taiwo.
Posted by: CHU-LIP Aug 12 2012, 08:09 AM
Herrmann is going to have
a good time
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 12 2012, 10:53 AM
Well, I still think Reuss will be sorely missed. And if I know Favre's teams - he won't be as successful in Europe as in the Liga.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 21 2012, 09:24 PM
Luuk de Jong 
What a poor replacement for Reus. Lazy up front, sloppy with the ball and now manages an own-goal as well. Kiev 3-1 in Germany. Game over for Gladbach I think.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Aug 21 2012, 09:26 PM
Instead he just scored an own goal
Borussia losing 1-3 at home.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Aug 21 2012, 09:27 PM
Damn you Fillipo, beat me to it 
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 21 2012, 09:36 PM
Haha, well better luck next time
I feel so sorry for Gladbach. The fans deserved more.
But they payed their prize for inexperience. Daems and Xhaka were awful as well.
Posted by: X-Offender Aug 21 2012, 10:41 PM
Did Taiwo play for Kiev?
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 21 2012, 11:39 PM
All 90. Didn't do anything remotely bad.
Posted by: Danny Aug 22 2012, 11:48 AM
My ambitions for us are just to get to the last 16. If we manage that, it'll have been a good CL season.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Aug 22 2012, 02:12 PM
His passing was bad. He has a habit to pass dangerous balls through the middle. One of them almost cause Borussia to score and the commentator said that because of his error Kiev lost their last league game.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 22 2012, 03:18 PM
Yes, but this will likely get better when he starts feeling the team. His defending all in all was okay.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Aug 22 2012, 03:30 PM
I doubt it, I just don't rate him at all. He's mediocre at best and very sloppy. We'll see how he will do in the group stage.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 28 2012, 10:10 PM
Udinese a few minutes from going to penalties against Braga.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 28 2012, 10:21 PM
Maicosuel tries a Pirlo and fucks up...
Posted by: Jack Bauer Aug 28 2012, 10:25 PM
What a douchebag. Should be sodomized by his teammates.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 28 2012, 10:26 PM
Udinese out, that was the only miss. Idiot. 
Posted by: han2503 Aug 28 2012, 10:29 PM
Typical Udine.
Only us and Juve in it now. We'll be out by the groups so it's up to Juve to put in a decent showing.
Italy could easily slip behind France at the rate things are going
Posted by: Jack Bauer Aug 28 2012, 11:10 PM
Sad days for Italian football indeed. And seems like it's gonna be like this for quite a while.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 28 2012, 11:16 PM
Serie A could drop below both France and Portugal (especially seeing as Udinese lost to a Portugese side) by next season. The big worry is that although they're currently 9 points ahead of Holland, in 2 years time they'lllose 11 co-efficient points on them. Dropping to 7th would mean yet another CL place gone.
Posted by: X-Offender Aug 28 2012, 11:19 PM
How far away seem Spain, England and Germany.
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Aug 29 2012, 11:07 AM
@Kurt that is very sad, yet predictable
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 29 2012, 11:24 AM
So typical Udinese. Fight all season long, then sell most of their squad and fail to make the CL. Now they'll play a B-squad in the Europa. This is why I prefer Lazio, Roma or Napoli finishing ahead of them.
Posted by: amancik Aug 29 2012, 01:25 PM
Milan
Manchester City
Paris Saint German
Malaga
How about that?
or
Milan
Sporting Braga
Dinamo Zagabria
FC Nords
Posted by: han2503 Aug 29 2012, 01:32 PM
Manchester City
Paris Saint German
Malaga
How about that?
or
Milan
Sporting Braga
Dinamo Zagabria
FC Nords
With our luck, we'll get the first one
Man U will get the second since they always get the easy draws
Posted by: acid911 Aug 29 2012, 01:43 PM
If we get Paris Saint German, it'll be further proof that UEFA draws are fixed. 
Not that we need any. Almost every time a big transfer takes place between European clubs, the smart alics at UEFA make sure they pitch the two related teams together. The lure of $$$ for them, and drama for fans, is too big to miss.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 29 2012, 01:58 PM
Manchester City
Paris Saint German
Malaga
How about that?
or
Milan
Sporting Braga
Dinamo Zagabria
FC Nords
YEEEESSSSSSSS!! Ever since Milan eliminated my home team some years ago in a CL qualification tie I've been longing for another chance to wear my Milan shirt in my home town with a special reason
Posted by: Jack Bauer Aug 29 2012, 02:31 PM
Real
City
Juve
Dortmund
Posted by: X-Offender Aug 29 2012, 02:51 PM
Exactly. Last season they sell Zapata, Inler and Sanchez before the play-off against Arsenal. Now they sell Isla and Asamoah. How do they expect to qualify for or even play in the CL? We keep bashing B&G for being cheap, but this Pozzo dude has made a shitload of money in recent years and has practically signed no-one worth mentioning. They just sell and sell and sell. Ridiculous.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 29 2012, 03:05 PM
I don't think they expect to. Yet despite the sales they've still done it 2 years straight.
I don't they're comparable to Milan either. They averaged 15,000 fans in a season where they finished top 3. Not many outside of Italy will have even heard of them, they have to sell to stay alive pretty much. Milan have regular CL income, a big worldwide fanbase and an average attendance over 3 times as big. Udinese fans can't really complain since they don't put much money into the club and still get to see a good team. Milan fans put lots of money in the club and get **** back.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Aug 29 2012, 03:17 PM
I don't think we put in that much money into the club to be honest. Our matchday income is incredibly tiny.
Posted by: acid911 Aug 29 2012, 03:23 PM
+1.
Love them or hate them, Udinese has one of the better youth and scouting setup. And it's there for one reason alone. Unearthing and snapping up good players with the intent to sell them to bigger clubs. Farming at it's best. Or worst. And oh, can't really say I care for them, they are free to do whatever their heart desires.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 29 2012, 03:24 PM
45k fans on average? I wasn't talking about just match day income, how many Milan shirts are sold worldwide? A lot I would imagine.
Posted by: Danny Aug 29 2012, 03:26 PM
Not read the whole thread through laziness. Can someone tell me when the draw tomorrow is BST?
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Aug 29 2012, 03:27 PM
45 k fans, but they pay much less in Italy than for example in England or Germany for a match day ticket. The San Siro has pretty low ticket prices.
Milan shirts are a good point. I'll go so far as to say we might even be top in Italy, but as I've been trying to explain for sometime now, top in Italy is still way off the heavy hitter range.
But yes, I understand here the context is with Udinese. No question.
Udinese's model is pretty unique in Italy.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 29 2012, 03:30 PM
Milan shirts are a good point. I'll go so far as to say we might even be top in Italy, but as I've been trying to explain for sometime now, top in Italy is still way off the heavy hitter range.
But yes, I understand here the context is with Udinese. No question.
Udinese's model is pretty unique in Italy.
Yeah, my point was as a comparison with Udinese regarding finances/player sales. Of course in comparison with similar stature sides in other leagues, Milan have a far lower income.
We really do need to look at getting our own stadium.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Aug 29 2012, 03:36 PM
Well Udinese's model is to have probably THE best South American scouting system in Europe, while making sure that moving players on for a profit keeps them going.
They run a risk of course, of being priced out. But so far it has been successful.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 29 2012, 03:57 PM
Yeah, right
Posted by: d'Arc.LP Aug 29 2012, 04:31 PM
Uefa Champions League 2012/13 - Winner coefficients
• FC Barcelona3.9
• Real Madrid4.5
• Manchester City7.5
• Manchester United11.0
• FC Bayern München12.0
• Chelsea FC14.0
• Juventus Turin15.0
• Paris Saint Germain18.0
• Borussia Dortmund22.0
• Arsenal FC22.0
• AC Milan24.0
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 29 2012, 08:37 PM
Is Juventus Turin their official club name? I never knew that if true.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 29 2012, 09:56 PM
No, Germans call them by this name. Their founding name is Sport Club Juventus, but F. C. Juventus nowadays. It has something to do with their crooked past, present and future management(s)
Poor Gladbach, almost got it right. What a waist de Jong is.
Posted by: CHU-LIP Aug 29 2012, 10:20 PM
it HUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTS
SSSS
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 29 2012, 10:26 PM
It does. Mostly because the next chance will most probably occur in about...10-15 years.
Posted by: X-Offender Aug 29 2012, 10:32 PM
SSSS
Why do you care? Gladbach fan?
Posted by: CHU-LIP Aug 29 2012, 10:44 PM
yes
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 29 2012, 10:47 PM
Well, they've really deserved it. Last season they played so good and now all the effort was virtually for nothing.
Posted by: d'Arc.LP Aug 29 2012, 11:27 PM
CL draw pots : 
Posted by: X-Offender Aug 29 2012, 11:33 PM
LOL, only 0.16 points less and we'd be in the second pot.
Posted by: han2503 Aug 29 2012, 11:33 PM
There are some huge teams in those 3 pots. Hope we'll avoid all of them because I can't see is doing even decently against the likes of PSG, City, Dortmund, even Valencia FFS
Posted by: d'Arc.LP Aug 29 2012, 11:42 PM
Milan, Dinamo, Anderlecht and Nordsjaelland would be perfect.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 30 2012, 12:28 AM
I don't know about City, but the recent form PSG shows isn't a good sign. Against Dortmund and Valencia...I think we have a fighting chance. Not that we would be the favorites, but anyway - decently we sure can do.
Posted by: CHU-LIP Aug 30 2012, 12:53 AM
avoid City, PSG, Dortmund and maybe Montpellier too (unsure now Giroud left), and Milan's draw at least aint unfortunate
pot 2: City
pot 3: PSG
pot 4: Dortmund
for every pot, 1 team we clearly should wanna avoid
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 30 2012, 12:13 PM
Montpellier? Oh we can take on them, I've watched almost every of their matches - and they've managed to lose them all.
Posted by: X-Offender Aug 30 2012, 03:37 PM
I thought the draw was tomorrow.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 30 2012, 04:00 PM
Me too. Just realized the change. It usually was on Friday?
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 30 2012, 04:37 PM
Yep, usually Friday as far as I recall.
Posted by: CHU-LIP Aug 30 2012, 04:43 PM
and way earlier on the day, no?
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 30 2012, 04:48 PM
Yeah I think you're right.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 30 2012, 05:12 PM
Milan in group C so far.
George Weah 
Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2012, 05:16 PM
Watch us get City
Posted by: servbot Aug 30 2012, 05:18 PM
We're gonna get PSG for the storylines. Book it.
(Not that UEFA is corrupt or anything...)
Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2012, 05:19 PM
Oh yeah PSG in pot 2 right. Thought that was City's pot. Got mixed up there.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 30 2012, 05:19 PM
Madrid and City.
Posted by: CHU-LIP Aug 30 2012, 05:19 PM
Real
City
half way there
Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2012, 05:19 PM
Oh so I was right. Man City with REAL
Phew
Posted by: m1ke Aug 30 2012, 05:19 PM
That was close!
Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2012, 05:20 PM
Now that will be something great to watch
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 30 2012, 05:20 PM
So Milan in group C with Zenith so far. Not bad. We avoided City in the last moment.
Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2012, 05:20 PM
Zenit....
Hmm, not too rough, but won't be easy
Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2012, 05:21 PM
Btw, what did I say about Man U always getting the easiest of draws? Already got the easiest pick of the pot
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 30 2012, 05:21 PM
After George Weah, Ruud Gullit. Milan legends night
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 30 2012, 05:21 PM
Away to Eastern teams is never easy. But better them than City.
Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2012, 05:21 PM
Come on Ruud, be kind to your former employers
Posted by: CHU-LIP Aug 30 2012, 05:22 PM
first Weah
now Gullit
Milan
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 30 2012, 05:22 PM
Hmm, not too rough, but won't be easy
Ohhh goodness gracious! It's a good pick, don't be so hard. It won't be easy, no team in pot 2 should be easy. But it's a good draw.
That's almost a fact.
Posted by: CHU-LIP Aug 30 2012, 05:23 PM
Asnl also again easy draw so far...
Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2012, 05:26 PM
Well like kurt said, it's an eastern European team and they're not too bad as well.
I just hope that we won't make a meal of it if the draw is kind to us. Getting first place in it is imperative for any hopes beyond last 16
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 30 2012, 05:27 PM
YESSS!! Thanks Ruud!
Posted by: m1ke Aug 30 2012, 05:27 PM
Could have been a lot worse there!
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 30 2012, 05:27 PM
Just to avoid Dortmund now.
Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2012, 05:27 PM
Anderlecth, good good...
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 30 2012, 05:28 PM
I just hope that we won't make a meal of it if the draw is kind to us. Getting first place in it is imperative for any hopes beyond last 16
Always the negative possibilities on sight. Spoken like a true realist
Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2012, 05:28 PM
PSG in a relatively nuetral group...
Posted by: CHU-LIP Aug 30 2012, 05:29 PM
Juventus can't be in D because Milan is in C? (both red)
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 30 2012, 05:30 PM
Chelsea have Juve.
Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2012, 05:30 PM
Ajax with Real and City. Damn! would have been fun to see Juve sweating it out in that one
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 30 2012, 05:30 PM
Juve with Chelsea and Shakhtar is a much tougher draw then ours. I hope Juve can get to the next stage, for Italian footballs sake and for the title run as well.
Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2012, 05:31 PM
You really think we'll be in the title run?
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 30 2012, 05:31 PM
No, no, no - we must support Juve on this one, like you always say we have to be for Inter in Europe
Posted by: CHU-LIP Aug 30 2012, 05:33 PM
I can't stand Cannavaro.
Watch him giving us Dortmund...
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 30 2012, 05:33 PM
Same. Italian football needs help so I wish Juve the best in Europe.
Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2012, 05:34 PM
Still it would have been fun
You always ruin my Juve mood swings 
Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2012, 05:36 PM
PSG given a golden ticket
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 30 2012, 05:37 PM
Juve should get through that.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 30 2012, 05:39 PM
Great group!
Posted by: m1ke Aug 30 2012, 05:39 PM
Happy with that group.
Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2012, 05:39 PM
Malaga...
Good draw
Posted by: han2503 Aug 30 2012, 05:40 PM
Easiest group of the night: Man U's
Posted by: CHU-LIP Aug 30 2012, 05:40 PM
Ajax went to D, because Juve cant be in red (Milan already was),so instead of the Italy champs, we got the Dutch champs with the German champs, England champs and Spanish champs....
damn
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 30 2012, 05:40 PM
Who's the hostess?
Posted by: Jack Bauer Aug 30 2012, 05:41 PM
Yeah, I noticed it too. Though last season even that didn't help them.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 30 2012, 05:42 PM
You always ruin my Juve mood swings That's my thing
Good draw, no BATE or Pilsen this year, but we should finish this one comfortably.
Poor Dortmund, a hell of a group with them, Ajax, City and Real.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Aug 30 2012, 05:43 PM
City
Juve
Dortmund
I almost guessed it
Posted by: Danny Aug 30 2012, 05:44 PM
Absolutely, well, not DELIGHTED but pretty pleased with our group. Could have been way worse.
Group of death actually nearly happened - more or less did. City, Real, Ajax and Dortmund. Some group.
As for us, qualification is an outside possibility. We'll see.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 30 2012, 05:47 PM
Love Madrid's group, not often 4 actual Champions who deserve to be in the competition get drawn together.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Aug 30 2012, 05:50 PM
Spalletti's Zenit shouldn't be underestimated though. With the way our team look now, them finishing first won't be a huge surprise. But, yeah, we dodged a big bullet with City going to Real's group.
Posted by: X-Offender Aug 30 2012, 05:53 PM
Really good draw. No excuses if we don't pass it. I'll go as far as saying that first place is within our reach.
But damn, how lucky ManU are!
Posted by: servbot Aug 30 2012, 05:55 PM
OK, money for reaching knockout stage is pretty much in the bag, so Galliani can go sign Kaka...
Posted by: Zed.D Aug 30 2012, 06:00 PM
Or you could say we won't sign anyone because our group is easy and we can reach our objective of reaching the first KO stage anyway now.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Aug 30 2012, 06:01 PM
Congrats to Iniesta. Quite a surprise.
Posted by: Danny Aug 30 2012, 06:06 PM
I hate Barcelona and I hate Messi. But I have ALWAYS rated Xavi and Iniesta and I think Iniesta's getting credit he deserves at long last.
Would have rather it had been Ronaldo but I just don't think he'll ever be favoured by journos.
Posted by: Danny Aug 30 2012, 06:07 PM
Zenit will be tough, but some of the other possibilities in Pot 2 were worse.
I'm happy with second place. Qualification is all I want. This club needs it.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Aug 30 2012, 06:14 PM
Would have rather it had been Ronaldo but I just don't think he'll ever be favoured by journos.
Well, I guess The Euros had a big impact on the decision. Xavi should have won it few years ago as well.
They picked him before in 07-08 when he really deseved it. About last season, it could have been either one of the 3.
Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Aug 30 2012, 06:25 PM
Congrats to Iniesta. Unlucky to Ronaldo, couldn't have really done much more to win it but we know how these things go.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 30 2012, 06:50 PM
+1
Posted by: X-Offender Aug 30 2012, 07:43 PM
Schedule:
18 September: Milan - Anderlecht
3 October: Zenit - Milan
24 October: Malaga - Milan
6 November: Milan - Malaga
21 November: Anderlecht - Milan
4 December: Milan - Zenit
First and last games at home, good.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 30 2012, 08:59 PM
Very good indeed. Lucky draw.
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Aug 30 2012, 09:33 PM
18 September: Milan - Anderlecht
3 October: Zenit - Milan
24 October: Malaga - Milan
6 November: Milan - Malaga
21 November: Anderlecht - Milan
4 December: Milan - Zenit
First and last games at home, good.
Malaga scare me. Zenit and Anderlecht know they stand a chance against this Milan with or without Kaka. Also, not sure about the weather in Belgium when we face them.
Yes it is an easy draw on paper, and considering the quality of opposition in comparison to what we might have been paired with, then yes there is light at the end of that tunnel ... Just depends on when Allegri can get this team to tick with a new personality.
Highly unlikely, but fingers crossed something shady is going on at via Turati.
Posted by: arivanjj Aug 30 2012, 11:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr0gQg0QVx8
come back to us wont you
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 31 2012, 12:10 AM
Gila's dive.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 31 2012, 12:49 AM
Gila>>>>Pazzini
Posted by: Ry4n Aug 31 2012, 12:54 AM
So worth it !
Posted by: arivanjj Aug 31 2012, 01:38 AM
??
just saw that dortmund is at home to man city on the last match day. im feeling an upset already
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 31 2012, 11:13 AM
Gila is and always will be better then Pazzini, even when it comes to diving.
Posted by: arivanjj Aug 31 2012, 11:36 AM
i admit i havent seen pazzini play much but i've got a scar on my heart from watching gila play for us Fillipo! a SCAR!
.. by far the most frustrating player i have ever watched.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 31 2012, 12:32 PM
Yeah, he was frustrating. But the source of this frustration was that we all knew and saw how good he could have been.
Posted by: X-Offender Aug 31 2012, 02:30 PM
+1
At least the Gila before Fiorentina fell apart.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 31 2012, 07:54 PM
Falcao 1-0 Atletico completely dominating early on.
Posted by: CHU-LIP Aug 31 2012, 08:05 PM
Make that 2.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 31 2012, 08:06 PM
Falcao is special.
Posted by: milanbuf88 Aug 31 2012, 08:08 PM
Very. I'm surprised no one broke the bank snatching him away.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 31 2012, 08:21 PM
He'd cost too much. Atletico signed him for 40m. You'd have to imagine he'd cost Kaka' money now.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 31 2012, 08:29 PM
And he makes the third as well.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 31 2012, 08:33 PM
Amazing.
I bet the Terry haters are in tears, no Terry and Chelsea get destroyed down the middle.
Posted by: han2503 Aug 31 2012, 09:01 PM
When Luiz has a stinker, he has one of epic proportions.
So undisciplined
Posted by: Zed.D Aug 31 2012, 09:24 PM
Falcao is really special...
Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 31 2012, 09:28 PM
So undisciplined
Worst signing in history? He's barely a £2m player, forget £20m+.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 31 2012, 10:34 PM
Maybe not the worst, but still...ouch.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 3 2012, 06:19 PM
Multiple reports that Hulk has been sold to Zenit for about 50m. Not confirmed yet.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 3 2012, 06:28 PM
Wouldn't be surprised...
Posted by: acid911 Sep 3 2012, 06:39 PM
So Falcao to Chelsea, and Hulk to Zenit. Both 50m plus transfers. Sweet. Let's kill football, and quick!
Posted by: dst Sep 3 2012, 06:47 PM
Can anyone find from a reliable source how much Porto have made over the past 10 years?
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 3 2012, 07:07 PM
http://portugoal.net/index.php/more-fc-porto-news/2525-fc-porto-the-money-making-machine
The article is from 2009. If you also count Falcao (€45 million), Hulk (€50 million), Guarin and Alvaro Pereira (€23 million), amongst others, you reach an estimate of over €418 million in the last 8 years.
Posted by: Danny Sep 3 2012, 07:19 PM
Sweet. Let's kill football, and quick!Falcao is, dare I say it, worth more than 50M. He is simply stupidly good, and if he keeps up the form of the past 2 or 3 seasons he could become the greatest striker of all time.
He has made world class teams looks absolutely ordinary and scores on all occasions. 30 in 37 for AM is a quite incredible return, as good as Messi or Ronaldo in a way inferior team. His record for Porto was just as good.
He is incredible. If he was a woman I'd marry him. Hell I'll marry him anyway.
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 3 2012, 07:27 PM
Milan CL list for the group stages:
Abate, Abbiati, Acerbi, Ambrosini, Amelia, Antonini, Boateng, Bonera, Constant, De Jong, De Sciglio, Robinho, El Shaarawy, Emanuelson, Flamini, Bojan Krkic, Mesbah, Mexes, Montolivo, Nocerino, Pazzini, Pato, Gabriel, Yepes, Zapata.
B-list: Carmona, Ganz, Narduzzo.
Out Traoré and Niang.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 3 2012, 07:32 PM
Too bad Mesbah is there. I don't want to see him anywhere near playing for us again.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 3 2012, 07:37 PM
Official. They also might buy Witsel for 30m.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 3 2012, 08:07 PM
Why wasn't Niang included?
At least this year we have such a weak squad that there ain't any left outs like last year Pippo and El Shaarawy.
Posted by: CHU-LIP Sep 3 2012, 08:15 PM
wait, who had Zenit in their poule?
oh wait
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 3 2012, 08:58 PM
Abate, Abbiati, Acerbi, Ambrosini, Amelia, Antonini, Boateng, Bonera, Constant, De Jong, De Sciglio, Robinho, El Shaarawy, Emanuelson, Flamini, Bojan Krkic, Mesbah, Mexes, Montolivo, Nocerino, Pazzini, Pato, Gabriel, Yepes, Zapata.
B-list: Carmona, Ganz, Narduzzo.
Out Traoré and Niang.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 3 2012, 09:03 PM
Well...this is just for the group stages.
We have to present a new list for the elimination rounds, so this is fair enough. Niang and Traore both don't speak the language and will need time to adjust. Niang especially. As for Traore, I'd prefer Flamini to him tbh.
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 3 2012, 09:10 PM
Is Traore really that bad?
Posted by: han2503 Sep 3 2012, 09:33 PM
He really is...
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 3 2012, 09:42 PM
I'd take the old Brocchi over him, given the one match I did see him play. Brocchi was not too capable but at least had an idea of what to do , even though he failed to do it.
Traore is just without direction. So is Flamini but at least Flamini has some ability.
Posted by: han2503 Sep 3 2012, 09:51 PM
Traore is just without direction. So is Flamini but at least Flamini has some ability.
The thing that really gets me about him is that he doesn't project any form of personalty through the way he plays. At least with Flamini you know what you're getting. He's tough, he tackles a lot (not always a good thing I know), he gives energy. Same with Brocchi, even if he wasn't capable of any particular trait, he was a Jack of all traids as you like to say.
This guy just doesn't seem like he's particularly good at anything, he isn't even good at being a Jack...
Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 3 2012, 10:01 PM
Witsel official too. The updated numbers are Hulk for 60m and Witsel for 40m. 100m euros in one night
Posted by: han2503 Sep 3 2012, 10:03 PM
Are Zenit really that rich of a club?
Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 3 2012, 10:06 PM
Yes. Their owner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gazprom
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 3 2012, 10:22 PM
Haven't you heard of Gazprom? Every January they hold all Europe in their gass-game.
Posted by: han2503 Sep 3 2012, 10:29 PM
Ahh, didn't know they were owned by Gazprom...
Thought Anzhi were the only super rich club in Russia
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 3 2012, 11:03 PM
I read Hulk was signed for €45 million, not €60.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 3 2012, 11:24 PM
His agent (Teodoro Fonseca) said it's about €60m.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 3 2012, 11:32 PM
Witsel.
Posted by: dst Sep 3 2012, 11:56 PM
That much money for Witsel really is an absurd move. I mean, don't they even bother negotiating? I'm sure Benfica would have given him to them for much less. Well, hopefully Benfica will use that money well.
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 4 2012, 12:11 AM
And to think we were linked with Witsel last summer (one of the infamous Mr. X candidates) for about £9 million or something.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 4 2012, 12:25 AM
Well, he's worth a bit more, but this price is really overinflated.
Posted by: KillerMax Sep 4 2012, 12:31 AM
Price Fillipo, priCe!
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 4 2012, 12:38 AM
Thought Anzhi were the only super rich club in Russia
No, unfortunately, no
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 4 2012, 12:39 AM
Say what?
Posted by: KillerMax Sep 4 2012, 01:34 AM
Posted by: acid911 Sep 4 2012, 01:59 AM
He has made world class teams looks absolutely ordinary and scores on all occasions. 30 in 37 for AM is a quite incredible return, as good as Messi or Ronaldo in a way inferior team. His record for Porto was just as good.
He is incredible. If he was a woman I'd marry him. Hell I'll marry him anyway.
True, but we'll get to see him more (and maybe perform better) with Chelsea.
That will further cement his legend. As for the best striker of all time, for me, personally that slot is taken. Ronaldo, the Brazilian phenomenon. But I agree, Falcao along with Ibra are the two best of this current generation. Always amazing watching them play!
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 4 2012, 04:26 AM
What happened to your precious Gomez?
Posted by: acid911 Sep 4 2012, 04:47 AM
He rounds up the top 3, most definitely.
In fact, he's pretty much my favorite of the bunch, followed by Ibra at two and Falcao at three. But I can't deny that Gomez has some heavy doses of German efficiency, while the other two make up for it by possessing extra, what'd you call it, panache.But I'd happily watch matches just for these three guys, that's for sure. They really are on a level of their own!
Posted by: drucurl Sep 4 2012, 04:57 AM
That will further cement his legend. As for the best striker of all time, for me, personally that slot is taken. Ronaldo, the Brazilian phenomenon. But I agree, Falcao along with Ibra are the two best of this current generation. Always amazing watching them play!Agreed. Ronaldo did things back then that nobody does today other than Me$$i and in ANY team he played for. No "team needs to play to his strengths" BS
Posted by: acid911 Sep 4 2012, 05:02 AM
Well said.
Ronaldo was once in a lifetime striker, even with his bucket load of injuries.
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 4 2012, 09:53 PM
Fenerbahçe sign Meireles. Zenit are after Moutinho.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 11 2012, 02:04 PM
I believe the argument here was the FFP is complete BS??
Two of Europe's biggest spenders will be forced to take note after Atletico Madrid were among 23 clubs to be denied prize-money by the European governing body
Every uprising starts with a show of defiance, and this morning UEFA gave notice to Europe’s top clubs that there is more to their demands for financial sustainability than words alone.
The announcement that 23 clubs have had their prize-money from last season’s European competitions withheld due to their financial issues will have drawn a mixed response from all four corners of the continent.
The likes of Atletico Madrid, Malaga, Fenerbahce and Sporting Lisbon have until September 30 to either settle their debts or explain to European football’s governing body exactly why they have not paid players, other clubs or the taxman.
It is the first blow in what is likely to be a long and bitter battle in which lawyers and accountants will have more impact on our game than centre-backs or second strikers.
That Atletico, the reigning Europa League champions, were included on the list will have drawn a sharp intake of breath from all clubs.
In Spain, where the financial crisis threatens to strangle everyone bar Barcelona and Real Madrid, there will be genuine fear of what may follow from Michel Platini’s baby, the UEFA Club Finance Control Body (CFCB), who have chosen this opportunity to flex their muscles.
In the blue half of Manchester and the townhouses of Chelsea, comes the acknowledgement that spending must be curbed.
In Paris and Russia, the shining beacons for players and agents seeking a healthy pay-day, there will be a large dose of trepidation.
And for Arsene Wenger, the man who has embraced Financial Fair Play (FFP) from the very beginning, there will be a quiet smile of satisfaction.
FFP is Platini’s grand plan, one in which European clubs must reduce their debts over an audited period of time. Between 2011 and 2014, no club is allowed to lose more than £39.5m. Between 2014 and 2017 that is reduced to £26.3m and then, hopefully, all clubs will break even.
If not, the punishment is simple; clubs that fall foul of the rules will be banned from the Champions League and Europa League.
And when Platini’s ideas come to fruition, this will be seen as an important moment in this well-advertised sea-change.
Yet the actions of some clubs suggest they do not take him seriously, not yet at least.
Qatari-backed Paris Saint-Germain are a gilded club with an impressive history, but it will be interesting to see how they reduce their losses by 2014, as UEFA require, having spent around £120m on the likes of Zlatan Ibrahmovic, Thiago Silva and Ezequiel Lavezzi this summer.
Similarly, Zenit St Petersburg – whose average attendance was 3,000 less than Reading last season – have just spent between £64 and £80m (depending on who you believe) on Hulk and Axel Witsel.
These are not the actions of clubs who feel financial Armageddon is coming.
Yet Platini has never deviated, never changed from his insistence that the day of reckoning was near.
"These rules were unanimously approved by all clubs, politicians, judges and the European Union. There's no going back from here on,” he told Gazzetta dello Sport at the end of August.
“FFP is a hard rule for any team, regardless of whether we're talking about PSG, Juventus, or any other team.
"I have spoken with directors from all clubs. They have all stressed that they would follow the new rules. It seems that some worry a bit more about FFP than others, though.
"Financial Fair Play does not stop clubs from buying players. Clubs can still spend as much as they want as long as their budget accounts for it."
The question now is how PSG, Zenit and the rest can justify it. Over-inflated sponsorship deals have been discussed, as have an increase of equity for their owners in exchange for greater finance.
But the example of Malaga is one that Platini is sure to refer to time and again.
The list announced today gives the clubs named until September 30 to settle their debts or explain why they had not paid either players, other clubs or the tax authorities money that was owed.
In the case of Malaga, the answer is simple; because the billionaire owner, Sheikh Abdullah bin Nasser al-Thani of the Qatari royal family, seemingly lost interest and the funds dried up.
Santi Cazorla was then sold at a knock-down price to Wenger and Arsenal, solely so that the players could be paid. Withholding prize money will only exacerbate the situation, but Platini had to make a stand.
Clubs such as Chelsea, Manchester City, Paris Saint Germain and Malaga are all indebted to owners that they could not cope without.
The Frenchman, a football politician who is surely destined for Sepp Blatter’s chair at FIFA, will not countenance that.
And, under the leadership of former Belgian Prime Minister Jean-Luc Dehaene, CFCB have been told to crack down.
No-one has been banned from European competitions – not yet, at least.
But Atletico Madrid could lose out on up to £7.9m in prize money, an eye-watering figure for any accountant.
And the message that is coming from UEFA’s HQ this morning is loud and clear; Platini is watching, and the day of judgement is coming.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 11 2012, 02:17 PM
So let me get this: Atletico overspent, can't afford to pay whatever so UEFA's response is to deny them prize money?
Platini: Killing football since 2007.
Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Sep 11 2012, 02:20 PM
to think these guys control European football.
Posted by: han2503 Sep 11 2012, 02:25 PM
When I see PSG banned or any other club that would bring UEFA money, then we'll talk.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 11 2012, 02:56 PM
Platini: Killing football since 2007.
Yeah. Coz it's unfair to teams in Europe, who you know..actually live within their budgets that they can't compete, since teams like Atletico are essentially doping 'financially'. Could they have gotten a Falcao without unserviceable debts for e.g? And without Falcao could they have won anything. We don't know.
In any case, I think UEFA are absolutely right. If you have no methods to pay your debts you shouldn't be taking them and investing that money.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 11 2012, 03:50 PM
Did you seriously use the word 'fair'?
Is it 'fair' that clubs like Milan, United, City, Madrid, PSG, Barca, etc. have overspent for decades, won as a result and been able to market themselves because of the money they spent?
Is it 'fair' that clubs from small cities generally don't get big crowd, can't sell much merchandise all because they happen to be from a certain area?
All FFP will do is make sure the money making CL teams have more money to spend, ensuring they have a much better chance of qualifying than other teams. Over and over again to compete the cycle.
Then as your peice about Atletico suggests, any team that is sick of the cycle and tries to spend their way into the CL, guess what happens? They get denied the prize money. How do they break into the CL then Jack?
Most things are done to ensure the bigger name clubs get all the help they can. That's why group stages were introduced into the CL since it's harder for teams to **** up. That's why seeding was introduces so they all avoid each other. You can sit here as a Milan fan and cry that it's unfair. But in reality it's not, what Atletico are doing is EXACTLY the same as what 90% of other CL clubs have been doing for decades.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 11 2012, 04:50 PM
I'll believe it when I see it. I don't think Uefa have the balls to actually ban a powerhouse club from CL. Probably some of them will threaten with forming a new superleague or something and uefa will find a way to fold.
Posted by: KillerMax Sep 12 2012, 01:53 AM
Great post Kurt. I hadn't thought about that way.
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 12 2012, 06:18 AM
In any case, I think UEFA are absolutely right. If you have no methods to pay your debts you shouldn't be taking them and investing that money.
Agreed. I guess it just needs time to sink in for people to accept this shift in financial sustainability. Especially considering this shift was endorsed by most (if not all) of the major European clubs.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 12 2012, 08:37 AM
Of course it was, they're the ones who benefit.
Europa quality teams generally don't make a profit. Villa made a profit on trasnfers a few years ago, qualified for the Europa League and made a loss. CL teams are usually the only money makers so by FFP rules they're the only ones allowed to spend. As I said before, it's keeping the cycle going and ensuring the big CL clubs remain in the CL.
It makes no sense to call this 'fair play'.
That's like saying people in Africa can't afford education, so them not having food is 'fair' since they don't have the money for it. Whereas I deserve my food, house, quality of living because I can afford it. It's not 'fair' at all, I just happened to be very fortunate to live where I do (just as big clubs are fortunate to be from big cities and have that marketability).
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 12 2012, 09:30 AM
Is it 'fair' that clubs like Milan, United, City, Madrid, PSG, Barca, etc. have overspent for decades, won as a result and been able to market themselves because of the money they spent?
Is it 'fair' that clubs from small cities generally don't get big crowd, can't sell much merchandise all because they happen to be from a certain area?
Well, to put Milan in the same basket with all those clubs isn't exactly fair either.
Small cities? That's life. Life isn't fair as well.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 12 2012, 10:28 AM
Small cities? That's life. Life isn't fair as well.
Well Silvio did put an awful lot of money into the club.
That's life? As is rich people owning clubs. UEFA are in for a big shock when United/Chelsea laugh them out of the building when they start preching this FFP rubbish to them for overspending.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 12 2012, 12:48 PM
Sadly United and Chelsea are well within FFP norms. Or am I the only one who read of the mega rich sponsorships deals signed with Chevrolet and Gazprom respectively? 
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 12 2012, 01:57 PM
Europa quality teams generally don't make a profit. Villa made a profit on trasnfers a few years ago, qualified for the Europa League and made a loss. CL teams are usually the only money makers so by FFP rules they're the only ones allowed to spend. As I said before, it's keeping the cycle going and ensuring the big CL clubs remain in the CL.
It makes no sense to call this 'fair play'.
That's like saying people in Africa can't afford education, so them not having food is 'fair' since they don't have the money for it. Whereas I deserve my food, house, quality of living because I can afford it. It's not 'fair' at all, I just happened to be very fortunate to live where I do (just as big clubs are fortunate to be from big cities and have that marketability).
It depends on which side of the spectrum you look at it kurt.
For me, it seems very aggressive. Milan is the perfect example in this, take a look at our squad and do you see any correlation with our ambitions? I doubt this squad can achieve it. Then again this is for short-term objectives.
In the long-term however, the ultimate effect would be to reduce inflated transfer prices and wages, which had risen dramatically in recent years.
It will only make sense when it is fully functional and you start seeing the results. As far as your concerned, if Villa finish 7th and don't qualify for Europe, your Villa does not have to meet the FFP guidelines.
As for the CL teams being the only money makers, I think that is a bit exaggerated, as Milan is a prime example on this. Even if Milan wins the CL, it wont be able to afford a squad like Chelsea or City. Don't get me wrong, the prize money is significant, but is not classified as a steady income and polarized as such.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 12 2012, 03:14 PM
If Chelsea are within FFP then this shows that it's more definitely about keeping the rich richer. They spent £80m without selling a penny this summer. And Chelsea are probably the smallest 'big club' due to the tiny size of their stadium. So if they are fine, then this just shows it's only really going to affect the 'little clubs'.
That's the problem though. For us to push on, realistically, we're going to need to spend money. Anyone outside of the big clubs will. But as we all run a loss as it is, spending will just mean that we get denied prize money/entry to Europe.
The only way teams can qualify or stay qualified is CL money. Spurs spent a fortune and got in, then the CL money has helped them remain competitive for a little while. Now that they failed to get in again, it's likely they won't be as competitive.
As I said to Jack, it's making sure the usual suspects keep their place to me.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 18 2012, 09:38 PM
Joe Hart...
Posted by: Zed.D Sep 18 2012, 09:44 PM
Apparently he's the third best GK in the world.
In his defense he made some good saves but ruined it in the end. typical English GK, good saves most of the time and then BOOM! a costly mistake.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 18 2012, 10:29 PM
Every goalie is a typical English goalie? Who knew.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 18 2012, 11:24 PM
No, just every bad one
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 19 2012, 12:15 AM
I believe Malaga will be the team to beat in our group. They look fantastic.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 19 2012, 08:33 AM
Posted by: CHU-LIP Sep 19 2012, 10:21 AM
Zenit are quality too. I haven't seen anything from Malaga against Zenit, but I get the feeling these two may advance. Milan can easily get kicked out as long as the team doesn't preform.
But/so yeah, Malaga beating Zenit with 3-0, makes it obvious who's the team making name for first spot.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 19 2012, 02:40 PM
Just seen the highlights. Hart didn't even see it until it was too late thanks to Kompany, Casillas error for the 2nd was just as bad.
On Kompany, he was made to look like a complete ametuer last night and that's just on highlights alone. I haven't been impressed with him for a while (title decider against QPR he was really embarassing). It amazes me how they've spent so much money and have a bad defense still.
Posted by: dst Sep 19 2012, 05:11 PM
Apart from Marcelo's goal (for which I first though "Marcelo can't do that!"... while after the replay it was "ah OK now I get it"), the other four were ridiculous (CR's) or saveable (the other three). A pretty mediocre goalkeeper's night in that game overall.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 19 2012, 05:29 PM
Marcelo's right foot too!
Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Sep 19 2012, 05:56 PM
CR dominated the game again, not bad for someone who never does it in the big games.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 19 2012, 06:36 PM
Nice to see him celebrating again too.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 19 2012, 06:49 PM
And?
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 19 2012, 06:59 PM
And what? I like the celebration.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 19 2012, 07:03 PM
Irritating, disrespectful,...why would someone like it?
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 19 2012, 07:16 PM
Probably the same reason why Pippo's celebrations are liked.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 19 2012, 07:19 PM
What's there to explain? People who adore JM would like it, people who dislike him - won't.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 19 2012, 07:34 PM
That's not it for me. I like displays of passion in sport. Ronaldo was annoying me with his no celebrations, despite me liking him.
Posted by: han2503 Sep 19 2012, 07:44 PM
Juve Chelsea about to kick off.
I think Juve will win it.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 19 2012, 07:46 PM
Chelsea for me.
Posted by: Zed.D Sep 19 2012, 07:48 PM
It's hard to imagine an Italian side beating an English one these days (or should I say these years!).
Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 19 2012, 07:52 PM
I REALLY HATE Chiellini.
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 19 2012, 07:58 PM
Juve will win.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 19 2012, 08:05 PM
And han will still believe they're not good enough for Serie B.
Posted by: Zed.D Sep 19 2012, 08:10 PM
Poor game so far from Giovinco.
Posted by: han2503 Sep 19 2012, 08:14 PM
I already said that I think they'll win it
Posted by: han2503 Sep 19 2012, 08:16 PM
Vucinic should have done better!!
Finding myself rooting for them. Considering they're the only Italian side in this thing (I don't even count us at this point)
Posted by: han2503 Sep 19 2012, 08:17 PM
Chelsea score
Posted by: han2503 Sep 19 2012, 08:20 PM
Well, at least their defenders are proving that I was right all along
Run of the mill Serie A and CL levels. Completely different
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 19 2012, 08:20 PM
Or not.
Oscar's second goal was just WOW!
Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 19 2012, 08:22 PM
World Class quality goal
Another 3 or 4 Chelsea goals would be nice
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 19 2012, 08:23 PM
Vidal scores. Great game so far.
Posted by: Zed.D Sep 19 2012, 08:24 PM
2-1 Vidal. good goal despite limping!
I go out of my room to take my clothes out of the washing machine, I come back and it's 2-0
Italian football is screwed, I don't think Juve can salvage anything so let them lose badly. maybe that'll affect their league form as well.
Posted by: acid911 Sep 19 2012, 08:24 PM
Anything less than 6-0 would be bad, actually.
Let Juventus mingle with the big boys!
Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 19 2012, 08:25 PM
Let Juventus mingle with the big boys!6-1
Posted by: acid911 Sep 19 2012, 08:25 PM
Or 6-1 now that you put it this way.
Posted by: acid911 Sep 19 2012, 08:25 PM
Yup.
You beat me to it by microseconds. Expectedly, I may add, hehe!
Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 19 2012, 08:28 PM
And I was writing it while torturing some terrorist..
Posted by: Zed.D Sep 19 2012, 08:28 PM
Giovinco looks pathetic out there. I haven't seen anything special from Hazard yet.
Posted by: acid911 Sep 19 2012, 08:33 PM
I have no reason to believe you weren't.
The Juventus goal makes it all the more interesting, though!
Posted by: Zed.D Sep 19 2012, 08:37 PM
No matter how I try to pretend otherwise, deep down I still want Juve to win.
Posted by: Ry4n Sep 19 2012, 08:40 PM
He looks very experienced he either needs to build some more muscle and get more physical or stop diving everywhere like its Serie A... same goes for Vucinic but hes meant to be experienced by now..both seem below average.
Posted by: Zed.D Sep 19 2012, 09:02 PM
I don't think more muscles will help him. he's so small, he needs to be fast like Messi. otherwise he'll never become anything great.
Anyway, was Hazard really worth all that money? he looks a bit overrated.
Posted by: Zed.D Sep 19 2012, 09:05 PM
That was a clear penalty IMO on Hazard though. even though the English commentator thinks it was 50-50. Barzagli never touched the ball.
Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Sep 19 2012, 09:13 PM
Played great in the PL so far.
Posted by: Zed.D Sep 19 2012, 09:20 PM
Was it Zidane-good?
because that's what he was hyped up to be like. but tonight I didn't see anything.Maybe it's still too early to judge.
Posted by: Zed.D Sep 19 2012, 09:23 PM
2-2
Quag
-
-
Wow, I envy Juve. they return to Europe after 2 season and do so well in their first game against Chelsea no less. we'd have never lasted in this game.
And Quag hits the bar with a brilliant shot. such a good player, I always liked him.
Posted by: han2503 Sep 19 2012, 09:49 PM
Quag
-
-
Wow, I envy Juve. they return to Europe after 2 season and do so well in their first game against Chelsea no less. we'd have never lasted in this game.
And Quag hits the bar with a brilliant shot. such a good player, I always liked him.
I envy their coach, even if he's sitting in the stands
Posted by: acid911 Sep 19 2012, 09:56 PM
I envy their ... nothing. Juventus have not a singlet thing to envy, starting with their prisoner (jailbird) home kit to their European record, or their domestic shenanigans. The pits of Serie B they deserve, and that's where they belong, seeing as how almost every week the Italian referees bestow favors upon them.
They did provide some of the finest entertainment and footballing comedy two years back, I'll give them that.
Posted by: acid911 Sep 19 2012, 09:59 PM
Oh, and all this is without an iota of hate for them. I just don't agree with their thugtastic attitude, and (when things don't go their way) the hypocritical innocence they put up. One of the bigger regrets I have is how B&G squandered the opportunity to gain a hold on their domestic titles by winning 4-5 ourselves, while they were away.
We'd be pretty close with say, 23-24 had we won those years, and last season. Darn pity.
Posted by: X-Offender Sep 19 2012, 10:20 PM
Did you forget we beat Chelsea only a month ago?
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 19 2012, 10:41 PM
A player who scores is passionate. A coach must be dignified.
I'm very conservative and old fashioned, no shame in admitting
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 19 2012, 11:07 PM
And I'm very outspoken. I guess that's why we clash sometimes.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 19 2012, 11:21 PM
We clash all the time, but it's fun when you know there are no hard feelings
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 19 2012, 11:25 PM
Agreed.
Posted by: Danny Sep 19 2012, 11:40 PM
Juve, sadly, are the new jewel in the Italian crown.
They're stronger than the rest of the league by a mile, and have become what Jose's Inter were. In terms of relation with the league.
Can't see them winning CL but they should do well - do I hate them? I find them immensely dislikable but they're not the horrible Juve of old that played like a glorified Bolton Wanderers.
I guess I envy their current health while our own suffers horribly. Much rather be a Rossoneri than a Bianconeri but they are in a very better place than we are right now.
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 20 2012, 08:05 AM
They're stronger than the rest of the league by a mile, and have become what Jose's Inter were. In terms of relation with the league.
Can't see them winning CL but they should do well - do I hate them? I find them immensely dislikable but they're not the horrible Juve of old that played like a glorified Bolton Wanderers.
I guess I envy their current health while our own suffers horribly. Much rather be a Rossoneri than a Bianconeri but they are in a very better place than we are right now.
Yeah and they finished 7th for two consecutive seasons till last year where they won the Scudetto. That was a direct result of their rebuilding process post demotion to Serie B.
But to their defense, they always have been the jewel in the Italian crown, after-all they have the majority of supporters in Italy and are the most decorated in that light.
Posted by: Zed.D Sep 20 2012, 10:33 AM
Juventus have not a singlet thing to envy, starting with their prisoner (jailbird) home kit to their European record, or their domestic shenanigans. The pits of Serie B they deserve, and that's where they belong, seeing as how almost every week the Italian referees bestow favors upon them.They did provide some of the finest entertainment and footballing comedy two years back, I'll give them that.
I just don't agree with their thugtastic attitude, and (when things don't go their way) the hypocritical innocence they put up. One of the bigger regrets I have is how B&G squandered the opportunity to gain a hold on their domestic titles by winning 4-5 ourselves, while they were away.We'd be pretty close with say, 23-24 had we won those years, and last season. Darn pity.
I would never trade Milan for any team, let alone them. I just meant in "this moment in time" I envy how well things are going for them. they look nothing like the old defensive Juve we used to know, they play very good and modern football. I also envy their health (as Danny said), because that plays a big role in how they are playing, and how we are. everything right now seems to be going their way. well, except Conte being in the stands
To be honest I did. but that was a pointless pre-season friendly, this was a CL opener in the Stamford Bridge. big diff.
Posted by: acid911 Sep 20 2012, 11:24 AM
Health, I'll give you.
But my feeling is more of an intrigue, than envy. Drugs, maybe? It's not like Juventus did not take performance enhancing drugs back in the late 90s. Once a poozer, always a poozer. As for things going well for them, well they sure are. One more goal from Chelsea, and I was expecting 4-0 or 5-0.It's a darn shame they took the pedal off the metal and Juventus climbed their way through to a draw!
Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Sep 20 2012, 05:49 PM
because that's what he was hyped up to be like. but tonight I didn't see anything.God knows he's only played about 4 games!
Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 20 2012, 06:07 PM
In his first 4 games at Chelsea, they scored 8 goals. His record was something like scored 1, assisted 4, won 2 penalties or similar crazyness.
Posted by: amancik Sep 20 2012, 09:18 PM
I've always rated Vidal and Marchisio, Marchisio especially is quite underrated. Good movement off the ball, can dribble, hardworking, tough ... typical box-to-box type players.
Posted by: Zed.D Sep 20 2012, 09:45 PM
Good player but his finishing sucks a bit. lost many chances in the Euros and a good one last night as well.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 21 2012, 12:50 AM
Yeah, if only he had Nocerino's finish. But his long range shot isn't bad at all.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 21 2012, 09:13 AM
We can barely hold up against Juve's quality now. Why you wanna give them more?
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 21 2012, 05:11 PM
True
Posted by: han2503 Sep 21 2012, 06:17 PM
Well techinically Nocerino is a product of their system
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 2 2012, 07:58 PM
Juve being owned by Shakhtar big time so far.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 2 2012, 09:36 PM
So close.. Shakhtar almost scored a last second winner. FT 1-1.
BATE beat Bayern 3-1 and with 6 points already.
Posted by: William405 Oct 2 2012, 10:03 PM
Wow, isn't Bate the team we played last year?
Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 2 2012, 10:08 PM
yep.
Shakhtar are a very good team BTW, played absolutely without fear in Turin and were more dangerous than Juve.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 2 2012, 10:27 PM
Shakhtar are a very good team BTW, played absolutely without fear in Turin and were more dangerous than Juve.
They owned Juve is the right phrasing.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 3 2012, 12:45 AM
By the way, I was very impressed by Henrikh Mkhitaryan. His dribbling and runs reminded me of Kaká in so many ways. I'd never heard of him before. The guy's 23, Armenian, and plays as attacking midfielder. He's scored 15 goals in 13 appearances for Shakhtar so far. Definitely someone to follow closely.
Posted by: han2503 Oct 3 2012, 10:55 AM
Shakhtar are a very good team BTW, played absolutely without fear in Turin and were more dangerous than Juve.
The problem is most teams in the league don't do that...
Last season Juve battered you with their energy, they played like it would be the last games of their lives in every single game they played. I think this season there's that over-confidence aspect to their games. Which could be a problem for them down the road
Posted by: KillerMax Oct 3 2012, 08:04 PM
Anyone watching any other games today? Checking out Porto - PSG right now...
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 3 2012, 08:09 PM
Currently watching City-Dortmund.
Posted by: KillerMax Oct 3 2012, 08:11 PM
How's that one?
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 3 2012, 08:21 PM
Decent.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 3 2012, 08:21 PM
Completely forgot other games were on.
Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 3 2012, 08:32 PM
Joe Hart is saving City's @ss.
Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Oct 3 2012, 08:58 PM
Hart proving again how good of a shot stopper he is. If he learns how to come for crosses we have some keeper.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 3 2012, 09:01 PM
I think he needs to improve a little on pushing shots away that he can't save too. A few times he'll make a good save, but put it on a plate for someone else. Think sometimes he tries to hard not to conceed a corner and ends up giving up a good chance/goal.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 3 2012, 09:02 PM
Benzema scored a fantastic goal earlier.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 3 2012, 09:04 PM
Goal Dortmund.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 3 2012, 09:06 PM
Brilliant!
Reus nearly scored again, good save from Hart.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 3 2012, 09:08 PM
Dortmund are really good.
In other news, Malaga are destroying Anderlecht with another 3-0, so far. It's gonna be tough against them.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 3 2012, 09:10 PM
Hart MVP, regardless of the result.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 3 2012, 09:14 PM
All Aguero had to do was play it accross goal for a simple tap in for Dzeko and he passed it to the defender.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 3 2012, 09:19 PM
Gungodan. Wow. That's brilliant, truly brilliant. Amazing hustle to win the ball back, great touch to beat Clichy then a superb ball in for Lewandowski, should've scored.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 3 2012, 09:31 PM
That's disgusting. Dortmund made a sub and didn't even let Kehl get into the box before the ref let them take the corner.
Then City score the resulting penalty. Nice job ref.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 3 2012, 09:50 PM
Ronaldo's career record with Madrid: 154 games, 158 goals. Just stupid.
Posted by: KillerMax Oct 3 2012, 10:06 PM
Thought was only possible in PES master league records... Not in real life... And in such a big team too. I am sure he would not score that many in Italy though. Just two different philosophies of the game.
Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Oct 4 2012, 12:03 PM
Yeah, people said the same about him 'not performing to that level outside of the English league' too
Posted by: KillerMax Oct 4 2012, 07:21 PM
I think English football is harder for a forward than a Spanish one. I think he can succeed anywhere. Just wouldn't score as many goals as he did in Spain in Italy.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 4 2012, 07:35 PM
Yeah, he's a 25 or so league goals a season player in any league. Just in Spain he's a 35/40+.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 4 2012, 09:05 PM
For me generally, if a forward performs in the English league, he is good enough for almost all places. But defenders are a different matter. I still rate the Italian philosophy of coaching defence to be the best. Unfortunately due to the oft repeated 'troubles' of football, the quality of the players putting that philosophy into practise is not good enough.
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 4 2012, 09:09 PM
Efficiency:
Messi has 338 professional games for Barcelona with 263 goals to date. That translates to 0.78 goals per game.
Cristiano Ronaldo has 477 professional games for all of Sporting, United, and Madrid with 281 goals. That translates to 0.59 goals per game.
Major Honors:
Messi - 5 League titles - 3 Champions League titles - 1 Club World Cup - 2 Local Cups -
Cristiano Ronaldo - 4 League titles - 1 Champions League title - 1 Club World Cup - 4 Local cups
Conclusion, Messi is more efficient. Yet both spectacular, and major entertainment for neutrals.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 4 2012, 09:16 PM
We'd have to slightly redo the math. For one, I would remove the Sporting matches from his record. That hardly seems fair, since Messi had an advantage to start with Barca.
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 4 2012, 09:23 PM
446 professional games with 276 goals. translates to 0.62 goals per game. Without Sporting, specially for you
thats 0.78 vs 0.62. Giving Ronaldo a helping hand here are we
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 4 2012, 10:02 PM
*Waiting for Kurt's usual "Messi has Xavi and Iniesta" argument*
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 4 2012, 10:46 PM
Well, I don't see why it would be fair to remove the Sporting matches either. Yes, Messi had an advantage, but in terms of statistic this advantage does not matter.
The same logic would mean Kluivert's ratio for example should tell us more, because he played for a inferior Barcelona, etc.
Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 5 2012, 12:43 AM
Do you really believe that logic? I could just as easy follow it and say.
Ronaldo has been far better for Madrid than Messi has for Barca
Ronaldo @ Madrid - 154 games - 158 goals. (103%)
Messi @ Barca - 339 games - 263 goals. (78%)
Yes, Ronaldo had an advantage, but in terms of statistics this advantage does not matter.
The above is clearly not true, the fact he has an advantage does matter.
Posted by: KillerMax Oct 5 2012, 01:50 AM
Messi @ Barca - 339 games - 263 goals. (78%)
I think this comparison is more suited for this argument. Had Messi played in England or another league, then we could use the one r7 posted.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 5 2012, 02:08 AM
Does anyone take into account that Messi is two years younger than Ronaldo here?
Posted by: Jack Bauer Oct 5 2012, 03:19 AM
Not really. If you want to compare Messi in Spain vs Ronaldo in Spain, you need to compare from the time Ronaldo arrived there (3 years with change) when they both on top. Kurt's comparison taking all the Messi Barca years including when he was a teenager while only taking Ronaldo last years.
So it's more like:
Messi: 178 games - 183 gaals
Ronaldo: 154 games - 158 goals
Which is pretty much the same, though Messi has more assists and scored less on penalties.
Though don't know why start all this all over again, nobody's gonna change his mind about who he's prefer and we have this argument every few month.
Posted by: acid911 Oct 5 2012, 06:22 AM
I might change my mind if the price is good.
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