[Fillipo Simone]

Okay. Very bad match overall, I think everyone will agree.

We slowly got into the game better and started to have more and more posses ion, but thus created to little. All offensive options either got blocked or pressured to pass backwards.

Loosing Ambrosini (and to an extent Abbiati) was a game-changer. This is why I pick Ambro as MOM; apart from the shots (which also illustrate you how Milan's attack was in fact toothless) he made a great match. More and more he begins looking like one of these typical sport-movies characters, the old captain plagued with injuries but still able to pull out a master performance if needed.

Who was our flop? Obviously, Abate. Amelia also proved to me what I already knew - he isn't first team material, so if Abbiati will go, we should find a new keeper as No. 1.

Kevin Constant is another problem. He seems to be useless in fact. He's a winger/left midfielder turned into a fullback, but unlike Zambrotta or Serginho he simply can't make a good cross or a defense-cutting pass. He can't shoot either. Therefore he's a complete waste; either you get yourself a fullback that is strong defensively, or you take the risk and convert a more technically versatile player. Constant apparently is mediocre at best on both accounts.

Riccardo Montolivo once again proved he's not our solution. Yes, he can perform highly, and he's been one of our best players this season. But in big matches (bar the first Barcelona encounter), he seems to fall under the radar. Again, he's not Pirlo. He has much more limited creative capacity. With Pirlo you have a constant menace that makes you sweat. With Montolivo you have occasional tries, but - like most of Milan yesterday - he seemed toothless as well.

And even bigger problem is El Sharaawy. He should be played as a really SS; it's painful to watch him track back Juve's fullbacks and defending. It's a complete and utter waste, especially when you have a true prima punta in Pazzo, who wasn't exactly mobile yesterday. All the working obligations made our flanks totally inefficient yesterday. Robinho wasn't the problem - yes, he has deteriorated and is useless per se - yet our tactics simply couldn't hold ground. Krkić came in later and tried to make a more active approach - always by going deeper and deeper for the ball, leaving the wing and playing almost beside Montolivo. That tells you everything. We have a 3 striker team with only one functional prima punta and two completely inefficient wings.

[Zed.D]

I actually think Montolivo plays better in bigger games. the game vs Juve at San Siro he was great, against Barca, he was great. against Fiorentina (who are a very good team this season) he was great. the list goes on. he is by no means a big game choker. if anything the other way around, give him the armband and a big game and he raises his game for you. not that he doesn't in smaller games... last night he wasn't bad but when the whole team is terrible you can't expect a player in his position who also has to do defensive duties to stand out.

Anyway that's my opinion.

Flop without a doubt Abate. he's a player who relies more on hard work than talent so when he's not 100% fit, he's terrible. and last night was the case. other players battling it out with Abate for flop: Robinho, Muntari, Pazzini.

Top.. again we didn't have one who stood out, but I liked El Sha who surprsingly got most of his passes and moves (cutting inside, dribbling) right this time and looked sharp, especially in the first half. Ambro and our CBs did their job right too.

Constant has good technique, and is a fast combative defender which means he's qualified enough to play as LB, but he had no end product last night. how many times did he successfully run close to Juve's box but failed put in a good cross? I mean he may be more technical than DS, but I'd rather play DS in the left because he has a much better cross on him and is a reliable defender. plus that he's very young and hasn't reached his full potential yet.

[Zed.D]

We have a troll on board! Muntari MotM? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

[kurtsimonw]

We have a troll on board! Muntari MotM? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

You don't think he was!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I went Ambro.

[X-Offender]

We have a troll on board! Muntari MotM? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Yeah, that troll has been voting for Muntari as MOM in each poll for quite a while now. So, from now on, Muntari starts with -1 votes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[kurtsimonw]

Why does Abate even play in the big games? It's hard enough playing the other big teams, but when you're playing with 10 men it hardly helps.

[Zed.D]

You don't think he was!? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I went Ambro.

I sometimes defend him because he's not as horrible as he's made out to be in "some" games, but last night he was plain shocking!

[han2503]

Why does Abate even play in the big games? It's hard enough playing the other big teams, but when you're playing with 10 men it hardly helps.

??

He was pushed in after an injury yesterday. Aside from last season's blunders against Inter I would like you to show me when he was anything but good in big matches.

Real, Barca, Arsenal, Juve, etc He put in at least 1 or 2 great performances against each of those teams in recent years.

You have this strange thing for Abate, I feel you'd rival my Muntari hate only I'm justified while you're hating on a player that has been nothing but consistantly great for 3 seasons now. No one can be 100% perfect at all times, a momentary lapse can be had by anyone, even players like Paolo had their bad moments, so it's funny how you can't allow Abate to have one considering you think he's mediocre and all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[kurtsimonw]

He's been routinely crap against the big clubs year in, year out. Against Arsenal, who I wouldn't really say are all that, he and Mesbah got destroyed. I'll never forget his girly turn on the ball for their first goal - just sums up his soft style of play.

You can defend him as much as you want, but I know what I see with my eyes and he's not that great defensively and has little input in what we do going forward.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Apr 23 2013, 03:03 AM

[han2503]

He's been routinely crap against the big clubs year in, year out. Against Arsenal, who I wouldn't really say are all that, he and Mesbah got destroyed. I'll never forget his girly turn on the ball for their first goal - just sums up his soft style of play.

You can defend him as much as you want, but I know what I see with my eyes and he's not that great defensively and has little input in what we do going forward.

Routinely cr@p? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

Mesbah was the one that was the culprit against Arsenal, I don't even remember one person mentioning Abate, he wasn't good obviously, just like the rest of the team considering we lost 3-0. When you lose with that amount you have to admit that EVERYONE was responsible not just one player, but Mesbah was the one that made the biggest mistakes.

Aside from a girly turn give me another example, because you are seriously starting to sound ridiculous on this Abate issue. He's been consistantly great for 3 seasons now, and it's not just me saying it but many journalists and Serie A followers, and he's done that by also putting in great performances against the likes of Barca, Real, Inter (he pretty much had Eto'o in his back pocket in both derbies in our Scudetto winning season).

And yeah, he was off colour on Sunday (same could be said for the rest of the team), he was coming off an injury and he was rushed to be ready.

[Fillipo Simone]

All in all, seeing that both sides tend to overemphasis on arguments, my conclusion is that Abate is solid, average and satisfying - in the sense that he's certainly more reliable then Antonini, Mesbah or Constant, but he's nowhere near Cafu, Serginho, Stam or even Kaladze (when played as fullback/LM). He's good, he's maybe even one of the best Italian fullbacks right now, but that speaks as much about the state of Italian football in general then of Abate himself.

[acid911]

All in all, seeing that both sides tend to overemphasis on arguments, my conclusion is that Abate is solid, average and satisfying - in the sense that he's certainly more reliable then Antonini, Mesbah or Constant, but he's nowhere near Cafu, Serginho, Stam or even Kaladze (when played as fullback/LM). He's good, he's maybe even one of the best Italian fullbacks right now, but that speaks as much about the state of Italian football in general then of Abate himself.

+∞ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) That practically settles it. I recall how much I was a fan of the guy 3-4 years back, when almost none here believed in him. But Abate hit a plateau a couple of years back, cosily settling in when he saw his position was secure. Now if we had a better option for the left, I'd practically start The Scig ahead of him. Yup, I said it.

Because if this was 2005, Abate would be just that - a good, solid, reliable ever-ready bench option.

[kurtsimonw]

Well I strongly disagree han on Abate. There's a reason he still hasn't reached doublt figures for International caps as well despite his age and who he's playing for.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Apr 23 2013, 01:04 PM

[han2503]

All in all, seeing that both sides tend to overemphasis on arguments, my conclusion is that Abate is solid, average and satisfying - in the sense that he's certainly more reliable then Antonini, Mesbah or Constant, but he's nowhere near Cafu, Serginho, Stam or even Kaladze (when played as fullback/LM). He's good, he's maybe even one of the best Italian fullbacks right now, but that speaks as much about the state of Italian football in general then of Abate himself.

Seriously Kaladze?

Kaladze was a solid FB but that was probably only a season were he managed to do anything decent.

Personally I rate a player not only on 1 mistake here or there, or one great performance every now and then. I rate how good a player is on consistancy, how much he brings to the team, effort, work rate, etc. Abate imo hits all those marks easily.

He's a very solid defender, has improved immensely on the attacking front and rarely ever makes a mistake, and not only that he's been performing at that level for 3 seasons now, ever since Allegri made him an undisputed starter he's been consistantly great and undoubtedly one of the best in the league in his position.

And I'm sorry, you're not going to find a Cafu in ANY league right now, not just Serie A. Who's the best RB that today's football has to offer anyway?

Imo, we should count ourselves lucky to have someone like Abate, and not b!tch and moan eveytime he puts a foot wrong.

+∞ (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleep.gif) That practically settles it. I recall how much I was a fan of the guy 3-4 years back, when almost none here believed in him. But Abate hit a plateau a couple of years back, cosily settling in when he saw his position was secure. Now if we had a better option for the left, I'd practically start The Scig ahead of him. Yup, I said it.

Because if this was 2005, Abate would be just that - a good, solid, reliable ever-ready bench option.

A plateau? Really?

I don't see it that way. Where in our Scudetto winning season he made a huge leap to become a very solid defensive player, he's improved his attacking game a lot over these last 2 seasons

Personally I was one that was very critical of Abate, I didn't think he had it in him, certainly not to become a starting FB considering we never used wingers before. But he's obviously proven a lot of people wrong and you seriously cannot say you'd start DS ahead of him. DS is just not that good on the right while he's great on the left. When DS starts on the right our right side is basically dead while with Abate we're constantly seeing movement from that side, and we tend to go through him a lot to get into our opponent's area.

And like I said to Filippo, you'll be hard pressed to find a RB as good as the ones we had back then, so it's pointless to bring up Cafu here.

Well I strongly disagree han on Abate. There's a reason he still hasn't reached doublt figures for International caps as well despite his age and who he's playing for.

Abate came onto the scene at a later age then most because of his position being switched around and because he was loaned when he was younger. He's only been a regular for Italy for these last 2 seasons or so. And that is because he's come into his own only during this time. That being said, now that he's there, Prandelli obviously sees what I see as he's the obvious starter when fit, Maggio is only a sure starter when Italy switch to 3 men at the back

[acid911]

A plateau? Really?

Oh yeah, really, really. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif) Abate is very good at both duties, much better than what you would call mediocre. But he rarely excels at either defending or attacking, particularly for sustained durations. His attacking game, in fact, is very lacking at times. When all you need is a simple fast low pass to an attacker, he'll flick the ball for a cross.

Dreadful. And now that he's been brought up, just go and spend 5 minutes watching a Cafu compilation. In particular, see how wisely he pases the ball on the ground most of the time to our attackers who slotted in the goals. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mellow.gif) I can even imagine his plays for the Brazil NT at will in my mind, and then see him laughing and smiling after the goal.

As for Abate, he lacks all these qualities. He may be 20 times a player Antonini ever was, but he still lacks, what you would call finesse and class. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) And this is something The Scig has oodles and oodles of, even though the kid is still raw. There is a reason why he was promoted from the youth.

Even the goal in this match was partly due to Abate, who just had his handbrake on when the opposing player was running into box. Amelia was the main culprit, yes, but Abate is just prone to these brain dead moments when as a champion you would expect him to give more than 100% on.

Don't get me wrong, I still want him to stay, play, even start. But it'll make it all the more easier for me, if I saw distinct signs of improvement. If not in defense, then attack at least.