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Posted by: han2503 Feb 24 2014, 08:34 PM

Hugely difficult game but recent performances have given me some hope, I seriously think that we could actually win this one.

Posted by: Forza Milan! Feb 24 2014, 08:51 PM

Would love to see us winning this one!

I am more optimistic than I would have been a couple of months ago, or even a couple of weeks ago. However, I think we still have a ways to go before we can challenge Juve.

Posted by: han2503 Feb 24 2014, 08:55 PM

Challenging Juve for the title is one thing, and you're right, it's completely out of our reach atm, but challenging them in a one off is another. And I think we can sneak this

Posted by: Jack Bauer Feb 24 2014, 09:01 PM

We can, especially if Juve will play as poorly as they did vs Torino.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Feb 24 2014, 11:48 PM

I would much rather have lower expectations than to boast about a performance against Samp. Samp is a team that just came back from Serie B. Yes we put in a solid performance and gave a sample of what is to come from Seedorf, but this is still the same team (bar a few tweaks). Playing Juve in a one-off wont be easy, it will be very hard. Their coach and players are on a continious winning cycle, I wouldn't put my hopes up of snatching 3 points off of them, especially not with the eggs at Clarence's disposal.

Posted by: KillerMax Feb 25 2014, 12:51 AM

Agree with r7. They are going to make it very difficult for us. Also, they do have the http://www.football-italia.net/45655/toro-players-mock-juves-12th-man too.

Posted by: Linkman Feb 25 2014, 01:23 AM

C'mooon where's the optimism. I think we can put up a fight.

Posted by: KillerMax Feb 25 2014, 01:28 AM

Of course we can put up a fight. Will we win? It's going to be very difficult.

Posted by: Linkman Feb 25 2014, 01:39 AM

I sort of phased out on the latter two Allegri seasons, but we used to be rather good at wiping the floor with the bianconeri. Let's hope!

Posted by: Ry4n Feb 25 2014, 05:01 AM

i think we can sneak a 1-0 win or a draw at the least , is buffon playing this game?

Posted by: arivanjj Feb 25 2014, 12:06 PM

We're still in CL, they're not. We will win.

Posted by: han2503 Feb 25 2014, 12:23 PM

Yep, the biggest irony of the season.

They basically stroll through the Serie A for 3 years running and they can't even get out of their CL group. We were barely a handful of points above the relegation zone just 2 months ago and yet we made it to the last 16 and are about to get a huge and I do mean ginormous pay day out of the CL thanks mainly to their inability to progress as we're going to get Italy's entire share of that cash cow.

On some level they have to be smarting big time.

I really do think we can take them on and win next Sunday. I didn't watch their game against Toro Jack but I read through FI and the post match stuff so I sort of got the gist of what happened and how they got the win.

No we're still way off before we can challenge them over the course of an entire season, we need at least one more top class CB and CM but in a one off I think we can take the 3 points. And R7 it's not just the Samp game that's given me this belief, but how we played against Atletico as well

Posted by: arivanjj Feb 25 2014, 12:37 PM

very interesting. i wasn't actually aware of this

Posted by: Suhail 3 Feb 25 2014, 02:21 PM

Hope we win so we can get higher up the league table, some decent results as of late.

Posted by: han2503 Feb 25 2014, 03:59 PM

Yep, lest year we get something like 50m for simply making it to the last 16, Juve got nearly 60m - the most out of any team in the competition, even better than Bayern, Barca, Real and Dortmund. And this was because Italy's chunk was split amongst only 2 sides.

Posted by: X-Offender Feb 25 2014, 05:59 PM

I'm pretty sure you quoted the wrong post there.

Posted by: han2503 Feb 25 2014, 08:42 PM

Heh, looks like it

Posted by: X-Offender Feb 27 2014, 03:56 PM

So, after watching Madrid annihilate Schalke last night, I noticed that Carlo continues adapting his beloved Christmas-tree formation, which becomes sort of a 4-3-3 if your support strikers have more 'winger' characteristics (e.g. Ronaldo and Bale). But what I really liked about it was its flexibility, where in the defensive phase sometimes it would turn into a typical 4-4-1-1 line-up, thus allowing you to have less brawn and more brain in midfield due to the players acting as a very compact unit. Everyone knew what they were doing and executed their responsibilities to a tee.

So, I was wondering, could we somehow emulate that same system? I was thinking about it, and I thought we could very well give it a shot. I came up with http://lineupbuilder.com/?sk=2c55, which then would turn into http://lineupbuilder.com/?sk=2c50 when we're defending. As you'll notice, that's very similar to what Seedorf opted against Atletico, only the interpreters are different.

I'd really like to have Monto as holding mid, with Poli and Honda (a bit more advanced) in central midfield. In a way, Monto would emulate Xabi Alonso, Poli would emulate Di Maria and Honda would emulate Modric. And really, when you think about it, they are rather similar players in one way or another. Obviously Taarabt and Kaká would emulate Ronaldo and Bale, with Taarabt tracking back in midfield as Bale did last night during non-possession.

Sure, it's not 100% perfect, but given that Seedorf already seems to be considering it, I don't see the harm in giving it a shot, even as soon as against Juventus (which is why I posted it in this thread).

Thoughts?

Posted by: milanbuf88 Feb 27 2014, 05:51 PM

It's an interesting idea but I don't think our players have the speed to pull it off as effectively. Bale, Ronaldo, and Di Maria are all much faster than their counterparts here and their speed is part of what makes them so dangerous in transition.

Posted by: X-Offender Feb 27 2014, 06:35 PM

I don't think it's about speed, but rather physical fitness. In order to get a certain discipline on the field, you need your players to stick to the plan for the whole match. However, we've shown that we slowly start running out of gas by the 70 minute mark. That aspect needs to be addressed. But still, it's worth a shot. We have nothing to lose in this season after all.

Posted by: milanbuf88 Feb 27 2014, 08:28 PM

That's true. I wouldn't mind giving it a shot to see how it goes. It is a very attacking line up though and it would require that we defend as a unit and keep the work rate high. I think Seedorf needs a summer off season to improve the fitness of the squad. Hopefully it will improve as the season progresses but it's tough to do while dealing with a normal match schedule.

Posted by: Linkman Feb 28 2014, 05:34 PM

By the by, no Vidal for them.

Posted by: X-Offender Feb 28 2014, 06:39 PM

And no Asamoah.

Mediaset line-ups:

Abbiati; De Sciglio, Rami, Bonera, Emanuelson; De Jong, Montolivo; Poli, Kakà, Taarabt; Pazzini.
Buffon; Barzagli, Bonucci, Chiellini; Lichtsteiner, Pogba, Pirlo, Marchisio, Peluso; Tevez, Lllorente.

Posted by: han2503 Feb 28 2014, 07:32 PM

No Balo for us, and Poli on the wing isn't what I'd call ideal

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 1 2014, 02:44 PM

Well, either Poli or Honda on the wing doesn't really make a difference.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 2 2014, 02:42 PM

Bonear and Emo...

Posted by: acid911 Mar 2 2014, 03:30 PM

One of the only two matches, I just 100% want us to win every season. The other being Juventus return tie. Just hope the team is up for it and puts in a good performance.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Mar 2 2014, 08:06 PM

Milan: Abbiati; Abate, Rami, Bonera, Emanuelson; De Jong, Montolivo; Taarabt, Poli, Kakà; Pazzini

Juventus: Buffon; Barzagli, Bonucci, Caceres; Lichtsteiner, Pogba, Pirlo, Marchisio, Asamoah; Tevez, Lllorente

Posted by: Ry4n Mar 2 2014, 08:13 PM

going to be an intense game !

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 08:35 PM

Let's smash these bitches!

Posted by: Forza Milan! Mar 2 2014, 08:40 PM

They have a better team, but I am hoping the fact they played on Thursday will even things up.

Forza Milan!

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Mar 2 2014, 08:53 PM

sloppy stuff from both sides till now..

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 08:53 PM

The Bonera Llorente dual is seriously worrying

Posted by: Jack Bauer Mar 2 2014, 08:54 PM

I have two wishes for this game:

1. we win.
2. that De Jong will break Pirlo's leg.

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Mar 2 2014, 08:54 PM

any duel with bonera in is worrying... especially against top teams

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Mar 2 2014, 08:56 PM

great header by pazinni,, kaka messed it up..

Posted by: Jack Bauer Mar 2 2014, 09:06 PM

What a mess.

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Mar 2 2014, 09:07 PM

good save and then tarrabt showing some skills.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:07 PM

How are we not losing!

All started with Bonera's ridiculous pass straight down the centre.

Great chance for Pazzo

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Mar 2 2014, 09:13 PM

kaka misses double sitters....

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:13 PM

HOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????

So close!!!

Posted by: Jack Bauer Mar 2 2014, 09:14 PM

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!!! THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A GOAL

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:15 PM

Wouldn't call those misses. Terribly unlucky! First one hit with power, blocked, second placed it, blocked on the line

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:18 PM

How the f**** is that not our throw???

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Mar 2 2014, 09:18 PM

yea it was unlucky but still misses in my dictionary especially the second one as the goal is quite big with golie down should have scored..

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Mar 2 2014, 09:18 PM

+1

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:20 PM

Man Poli!! You just have to hit the target there!!

Posted by: Jack Bauer Mar 2 2014, 09:21 PM

Our finishing is facepalm worthy

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:21 PM

Monto!! Great shot!

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:22 PM

Yep, reminding me of that Atletico match right now, which is seriously worrying.

Playing so well yet can't finish

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:23 PM

Watching Pirlo giving the ball away is incredibly satisfying

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Mar 2 2014, 09:24 PM

WTF are we doing...

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:24 PM

We're getting so close it's like you can feel that goal coming... Just can't see from where atm

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:25 PM

Posted by: Zed.D Mar 2 2014, 09:25 PM

This is an unusually fast paced game for a Milan-Juve game.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:25 PM

We're playing Juve at their ow game. We're playing an incredibly physical game

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:27 PM

Monto = Beast

Totally dominating that mid

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Mar 2 2014, 09:28 PM

i meant finishing wise after some brilliant build ups...

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Mar 2 2014, 09:28 PM

along with pazzo....

Posted by: Zed.D Mar 2 2014, 09:29 PM

We sit back a few tims and we nearly conceded. I hope we maintain this level of intensity until the end. we can win it and god knows we need it.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:30 PM

NOO!!

So close again!!

What a shot Kaka!!

Poli!! Man HIT THE TARGET!!!

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Mar 2 2014, 09:30 PM

anohter save by buffon...

Posted by: Jack Bauer Mar 2 2014, 09:30 PM

unfuckingbelievable

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Mar 2 2014, 09:31 PM

this is shite....

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:31 PM

So f******* unlucky!!!

Posted by: Jack Bauer Mar 2 2014, 09:32 PM

That's what happens when you don't fucking score

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:32 PM

They attack once in the last 30 minutes and score. Un-f@cking-believable!!

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 09:32 PM

What a joke...

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Mar 2 2014, 09:34 PM

i am off.. good luck for second half...

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:34 PM

WTF where they doing there? The entire defence and midfield surrounding their 3 players and still we couldn't f@cking clear it!!

Rami with the initial mistake there, terrible flick on

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 09:35 PM

This.

Totally our fault.

Posted by: Ry4n Mar 2 2014, 09:36 PM

And this is why we are where we are and they are first we cannot finish to save our lives !

Posted by: Linkman Mar 2 2014, 09:43 PM

We looked great out there. Kudos to Pazzo, Abate, Urby, Montolivo.

Kaká: shoot. Shoot. Shoot, you dolt.

Adel: Pass more often.

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 09:47 PM

Agreed, Taarabt should pass more often.

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 09:48 PM

We had 16 shots, Juve only 5.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:53 PM

I just hope that goal didn't completely take the wind out of their sails

Posted by: Linkman Mar 2 2014, 09:55 PM

What would make this team become worthy of a championship:

- Crossing lessons for Abate and Urby.
- That's it.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:57 PM

So close again. Poli this time. Can't hit the target if his life depended on it tonight it seems

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:58 PM

Why Sapo Seedorf?? Bring on Honda!

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:58 PM

Caceras nearly taking Poli's head off. Looks serious

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 09:59 PM

Saponara??? Why not Honda FFS???

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 09:59 PM

Bringing Sapo on here just seems completely useless

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Mar 2 2014, 09:59 PM

That fella in your sig would have scored with one chance, let alone over a dozen shots. The quality of our players is telling!

This Juventus is a record breaking team. This Milan is one of the lowest quality we had in years! People on here mock Pirlo, when it is his quality in midfield that we lack, Seedorf's quality, Rui Costa, Kaka circa 2006/07, and sometimes Baresi's leadership and guidence.

Yes these lads have put on a fight from the first whistle, but we lacked a lot in quality of our play. Persinally speaking, this is the lowest Milan has reached a new low in quality.

Quality

Posted by: milanbuf88 Mar 2 2014, 10:01 PM

Monto has been a beast

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 10:03 PM

Your reasoning doesn't make any sense though, since we've been winning the midfield battle all game long

The finishing hurt us big time, but in terms of quality on that pitch, we've been by far the better team so far.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Mar 2 2014, 10:03 PM

Hope Poli will be o.k. That was scary.

Posted by: dst Mar 2 2014, 10:04 PM

Somewhere Lippi is watching this game and thinking "it's like I never left".

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 10:07 PM

It was painful just looking at it.

Posted by: Zed.D Mar 2 2014, 10:09 PM

Pirlo is **** tonight

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 10:10 PM

What a little b!tch Pirlo is. Could have been red

Posted by: Linkman Mar 2 2014, 10:10 PM

Say whatever you want, we've looked top notch today. All we need is the goals.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Mar 2 2014, 10:11 PM

He's always a ****.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 10:12 PM

Yep, but as I said in the first half. This game reeks of the same sh!t as against Atletico

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 10:12 PM

Bad call by Seedorf to put Saponara. He adds nothing to our game.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Mar 2 2014, 10:13 PM

So the only reasoning would be han and anyone dare say otherwise is without reason? Is this an internet forum or am I expected to pay you royalties for my 2 cents?

I said 'Yes these lads have put on a fight from the first whistle', but so fucking what? Fiorentina, Roma and even Genoa would put on a fight. Im talking quality in terms of experience, in terms of vision and in terms of fluidity of play. Kaka is not in his prime, way past it. If Monto was that great of a midfielder, he'd be in Barca, Germany or England, not Milan. Im Milan's golden days Poli would be on loan or co-owned and plays at Fiorentina.

Posted by: Linkman Mar 2 2014, 10:13 PM

They will come eventually. Maybe not this match, but we're slowly improving.

Amazing stirke by Carlitos.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 10:14 PM

Tevez... goal

Amazing

Really missing Balo tonight, only one in the team who could come up with something like that

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 10:15 PM

De Jong should have closed him down.

Posted by: Zed.D Mar 2 2014, 10:15 PM

What a frustrating game. we've owned them and we're 2 down because we lack classy players in attack.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Mar 2 2014, 10:15 PM

Sorry han, im just in a bad mood today and this game is making it worse.

Dont mean anything by it just venting ... Im off and goodluck Milan!!

Posted by: dst Mar 2 2014, 10:16 PM

wow... Saponara's defensive effort there before Tevez's goal... are you kidding me? was he thinking he could tackle him with his eyes?

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 10:16 PM

Really pissed. They have done nothing, yet they're leading with two goals. Pathetic.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 10:17 PM

Your 2 cents is usually made up of antagonising people

Monto has hands down won that midfield battle tonight, we've had the better and more dominant play throughout

Yes, there is a reason why we had a gazillion chances and couldn't score while Juve hade one and a half and managed to score twice, that's why they're about to become champions for the 3rd straight season

But watching this game it's very obvious that we're not as far away as you're making it seem. 2 more quality players and we'd be level with them, and this also especially when we have our top striker missing

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 10:17 PM

Honda for Monto.

Sorry, Clarence, but your subs make no sense tonight.

Posted by: Linkman Mar 2 2014, 10:19 PM

Monto was out of steam.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 10:19 PM

Seedorf really f@cked up his subs tonight. That introduction of Sapo really hurt us, especially in a moment when we needed to make a further push

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 10:20 PM

No, he could still play. He looked surprised he was being subbed.

Posted by: Linkman Mar 2 2014, 10:21 PM

He had been completely irrelevant in the second half, compared to his amazing first.

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 10:22 PM

Disagree.

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 10:22 PM

Mr. Useless is on.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 10:23 PM

Nope, and to now push Honda back in his position really makes absolutely zero sense

Seedorf is having a Napoli tonight

Man watching this is so disheartening and encouraging at the same time. Can't even decide how to feel about it

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 10:25 PM

Encouraging, yes, but right now I feel nothing but frustration and anger.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 10:25 PM

Pirlo should be f@cking off!

Posted by: Linkman Mar 2 2014, 10:25 PM

What else would you have changed? It's not like we had that many options.

I would have subbed Monto too. I agree with the Sapo one being silly, but Robbie and Honda seemed like the ideal subs. Perhaps Petagna for Pazzo, if only to shake things up.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 10:27 PM

I would have brought Honda on for Poli, Monto needed to stay on, no question, maybe Robinho for Kaka, but nothing else

Posted by: Linkman Mar 2 2014, 10:27 PM

What we had on the bench:

Michael Essien
Philippe Mexes
Cristian Zaccardo
Marco Amelia
Robinho
Valter Birsa
Kevin Constant
Keisuke Honda
Riccardo Saponara
Gabriel
Mattia De Sciglio
Andrea Petagna

Robinho, Honda, Sapo and Petagna are the only things worth considering if you ask me.

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 10:28 PM

When Honda tries to take players 1-on-1 is facepalm material. You can't do it sweetheart, you're not that kind of player.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 10:29 PM

We've completely lost our shape at the back, we have Honda playing as DM FFS!

Bonera's only answer to dealing with Tevez and Llorente is to kick the sh!t out of them, been lucky that so many fouls haven't been called against him

Posted by: dst Mar 2 2014, 10:29 PM

You guys are acting as if there's someone off the bench that could make a difference... FFS!

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 10:31 PM

The players have seemingly given up. Can't blame them, we've been so unlucky tonight.

Posted by: Ry4n Mar 2 2014, 10:31 PM

sad but true!

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 10:33 PM

Honda can go f*ck off! The attitude he's displayed ever since he came on is unjustifiable. It's like he's not even trying.

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 10:33 PM

How are we acting like that?

Posted by: dst Mar 2 2014, 10:36 PM

I'm not sure if it was the whining or the moaning about substitutions that made me think so.

Posted by: Linkman Mar 2 2014, 10:37 PM

If this had gone 1-1, it'd be a huge confidence boost for the team.

Posted by: Linkman Mar 2 2014, 10:37 PM

If this had gone 1-1, it'd be a huge confidence boost for the team.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 10:37 PM

I agree he's been bad, but I don't think it's about not trying.

He came on for what? 15 minutes? He's expected to do what exactly? Playing in the Monto position no less.

The team have seemingly all thrown in the towel, can't blame them, they suffered 2 huge sucker punches, it can't be easy to come onto the pitch when your team mates are already in such a defeated mind set. All of our subs have failed. Seedorf simply got it wrong

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 10:38 PM

Seeing the Juve players come off to ovations from their fans is incredibly frustrating. So not deserved

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 10:39 PM

Robinho nearly breaks the bar in 2 and we still can't score

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 10:41 PM

Going to go in a corner and pout like a 2 year old for the rest of the night...

Posted by: Linkman Mar 2 2014, 10:41 PM

Would it be different if we had Tevez and Llorente in our team?

Posted by: Ry4n Mar 2 2014, 10:44 PM

why do we go all out in the first half and then flop 2nd jesus the stamina and determination in this team is shite...

going to start calling this team the 45minute team.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 10:44 PM

Yep, they could have finished the dozen and a half chances we created

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 10:47 PM

I don't think that's the case, we still had the upper hand in the second half before Tevez's goal. Same against Atletico, we were dominant for at least 80% of the entire 90 minutes.

The goals today just came at perfect moments for Juve, which once again shows why they're champions and will be champions again, the bounce of the ball favours them, and they're so clinical when they do get that opportunity, they literally scored off of a chance and a half today, yes they had a couple of pot shots here and there, but the goals they scored off of just shows how much the bounce favours them, we hit the post and it goes out, they hit it and it helps the ball go in

It's just how things go

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 10:49 PM

We never said that we had world beaters on the bench. We just thought Seedorf's sub choices were not appropriate.



It's not about doing something, it's about not even bothering, almost as a sign of protest for not being considered as a starter. I totally got that from him tonight.

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 10:50 PM

Yep. It's the winner's luck.

Posted by: Ry4n Mar 2 2014, 10:52 PM

True , we really really need to be so much more clinical at this level we should be scoring the stats only say half of what we saw tonight and we could have been 4-1 up from the first half but i know we all would have taken just the 1-0 at half time....ok they got rather lucky and scored and but that football **** like that happens all the time i hope seedorf
tells the team something along the lines of you cannot keep missing these chances or we keep having the same conversation over and over.

I'm just annoyed like all of you , we did not look like a 10th league team out there and if anyone watched the beginning of BEIN sports they showed seedorfs stats as milan manager since his arrival

pretty much had Milan in 4th spot in the league...says it all really.

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 11:03 PM

My 2 cents on the match.

We completely dominated them, hands down. At some point during the match we had 16 shots and 34 mins of possession vs 5 shots and 23 mins of possession. Once again, we create opportunities yet we don't know how to net them. We should have scored at least twice in the first half.

In the second one, Poli's injury changed everything. Up until that point he had been very important, shutting Pirlo entirely and supporting all our attacks. Once Saponara came on, not only he added nothing to our attacking game, but Pirlo had all the freedom he wanted and Juve became much more dangerous. Honda should have been picked instead.

As much pissed as I am for losing like this, this game gives great confidence, cos it shows the team is slowly but surely adapting to Seedorf's tactics and mentality, but it also shows that we lack quality in many departments. If we don't spend some cash this summer, then we'll never make that important step ahead.

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 2 2014, 11:11 PM

Just wanna say, only a couple of months ago we were being humiliated by the Sassuolo's of Serie A, now we're playing on par with teams like Juventus and Atletico Madrid, displaying some really good football. Just a reminder to those who kept saying that Allegri wasn't our main problem.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 11:29 PM

Agreed, I think what we mostly need is that one break through game where things just click completely for us, we already saw it happen against lesser teams. The Samp game clearly showed this. But so far against better teams we've had the performances but not the results. So if we keep at it and keep producing the same kind of displays I think that game will come and it will be like flipping a switch. I'm hoping it comes against Atletico


Completely agree with you, and same here about the mixed feelings. You're left feeling bitter because we deserved so much more but encouraged at the same time.

I think Seedorf, tactically got it spot on. He played Kaka and Taraabt out wide to catch out Bonucci and Caceras and Poli in the centre to neutralise Pirlo. But he failed in the subs. Which I think are usually his strongest asset as he usually makes them at the right time and changes the right personnel. The Sapo move was just an Allegri level head scratcher. Honda for Monto as a direct swap (position as well) was even more head scratching worthy. They just did not make any sense and instead of giving us the extra boost we needed they handed over the game to Juve.

And I don't think there's that much of a lack of quality. We seriously missed Balo tonight that was very obvious, and he is a player who can do what Tevez did today which is pop up with something from completely nothing. I think that's what we really missed. Pazzo is ok, but in these types of games he just does not bring that cutting edge that a top striker does.

Otherwise we did very well in midfield which is Juve's strongest area. The Bonera thing is also a huge problem, any time he came up in a dual against Tevez or Llorente he got creamed. But otherwise we showed that we're not that far off if we play to our full potential. I really do think that 2 top quality additions and a proper pre-season with Seedorf will see us do very well next season


Yep, totally right

Posted by: kurtsimonw Mar 2 2014, 11:30 PM

Scored an average of 1 a game, conceded more than we've scored. Lost as many as we've won. C'est incredible!

Posted by: han2503 Mar 2 2014, 11:34 PM

And that record is a very great reflection of what the great Allegri left us with. Since Seedorf's been here we've been the second best team in the league. Compare that to the relegation battling stats Allegri managed to accumulate for us

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 3 2014, 02:08 AM

This, Kurt, makes all your arguments invalid.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 4 2014, 01:24 PM

New poll http://www.milanfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8354&st=0

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 4 2014, 10:39 PM

Just re-watched the highlights, Saponara could have closed Tevez on their second goal yet he just stood there watching.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Mar 5 2014, 01:04 AM

Oohh, so Seedorf winning 4, losing 4, scoring 9 and conceding 10 is down to Allegri?

Posted by: Linkman Mar 5 2014, 05:37 AM

If you consider 2 losses were coppa/CL, then it sure looks a lot better.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 5 2014, 10:08 AM

Meaningless Coppa games and a CL tie against the team that was first in La Liga when we faced them who everyone thought were going to sweep us aside while barely breaking a sweat.

And the only 2 games we really deserved to lose were the ones against Udine, where no one even bothered to try and Napoli. The other 2 we were by far the better team.

And as I said we're sill the second best team in the league since Seedorf took over so whatever you say is null and void

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 5 2014, 10:27 AM

I think this whole discussion is invalid. To an extent, you're doing what Kurt showed is possible and done with Allegri: turning statistics in your favor. But the truth for me is that it's still early to tell weather Seedorf is the right man or not. We must be patient and try not to jump the gun and scream out our opinion.

And I'm not trying to make this argument or the whole thing relative. I do see signs that make me believe we're heading in a considerably better direction. I've seen some general things improve, some details still not completely addressed. Will it be enough? It's hard to tell, Seedorf is a complete shot in the dark. If it was some established coach, we'd at least have a historical pattern to compare with.

Posted by: acid911 Mar 5 2014, 11:10 AM

This! Totally spot on!

Posted by: han2503 Mar 5 2014, 04:24 PM

But unlike with kurt the performances have also backed up the stats, however this could never be said under Allegri as the performances were always terrible, even when we were winning on a consistent basis

And it's these performances that bring me the most hope for the future, not the stats themselves.

But facts are facts, in the league, since Seedorf took over we've been better than pretty much every other team bar Juve who have been on this crazy run themselves. Yes, we've lost a couple of games, but 2 of which were totally undeserved losses as we were the better team by far, and one of these games were against kurt's beloved Juve themselves.

So to come in here and talk smack when we're finally doing so well, especially when you're someone who consistently defended the previous coach and blamed it on the lack of quality of the players is pretty low

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 5 2014, 04:59 PM

He's probably just butthurt, which is understandable considering he was Allegri's fiercest advocate.

Posted by: Forza Milan! Mar 5 2014, 06:02 PM

Agree that Seedorf was a gamble, and I have yet to be convinced that he can make us successful.

However:
- AFAIAC, we are playing much better than we did under Allegri. We are playing more as a team, we are playing with more energy and conviction, and we are more pleasant to watch. I had stopped watching games, I have started watching them again.
- Our results (particularly in Serie A) are much better than they were under Allegri. Prior to the game against Juve, we were the second best team in Serie A since Seedorf took over (<http://www.goal.com/it/news/2/serie-a/2014/02/24/4643075/con-seedorf-%C3%A8-unaltra-musica-solo-la-juventus-ha-fatto?ICID=AR_RS_1>: 13 points in 6 games, Juve got 14). The loss to Juve has not changed matters substantially.

This is less than two months after Seedorf took over, and without the benefit of a pre-season.

Yet our record under Allegri was even worse, and building an argument on the fact that we are only having gradual improvements rather than an instant turn-around feels somewhat unreasonable to me.

Bottom line, I don't see how anyone can still claim that sacking Allegri did not make a difference.

Posted by: drucurl Mar 5 2014, 09:35 PM

indeed.
BTW is Kaka hated on this forum like he is over at Red and Black?
(I'm a total kaka groupie btw)

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 5 2014, 09:39 PM

Not that I know of.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Mar 6 2014, 05:01 AM

Nah dru. I think people are a little realistic.

Red and Black sounds like a lot of people who got onto the Milan wagon during the golden years and now think their shite should smell of roses or something.

Posted by: drucurl Mar 6 2014, 02:21 PM

Glad to hear......R&B is filled of "Y U NO DO Kaka' 2007?" type posts

The thing is Kaka (back then) WAS the attack. What we need of him now is to be a leader and be a CAM...all of which I think he's doing quite well. Sure it would be nice if he had his old pace and stamina....but there's no point crying over spilled milk. He brings a LOT to the table and hopefully with SES back, we'll have the kids do the leg work for our offense to be awesome.

I personally think that Balo has calmed down a lot since his arrival and that alone is worth something.

If he doesn't score a wonder goal....everybody over at R&B goes Kaka = Worst Player Evarrr

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 6 2014, 05:39 PM

Here's an interesting question: with El Shaa back, do you think we need to sign anyone at all in attack? We'd have Kaká, Honda, Taarabt, El Shaa, Balo and Pazzini for four roles (attacking mids + striker). Do you think this starting line-up is good enough for next season?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 6 2014, 05:41 PM

Hmh, interesting question. I think it is. I'd bring back Paloschi and concentrate on different areas, midfielders and defenders.

Posted by: KillerMax Mar 6 2014, 05:55 PM

I don't have much hope for Honda to be honest...

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 6 2014, 07:36 PM

It all depends on how Seedorf (for a moment I typed Allegri there ) handles him. If he plays him regularly in his best suited role, then I can see Honda doing great things for us. Yesterday he was great for Japan, giving two assists, one of them being a fantastic back-heel pass. After the match, even Zaccheroni said that Honda gives his best centrally.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 6 2014, 08:59 PM

I personally think we need a top class midfielder capable of playing the double pivot better than De Jong, to make this thing really work

Ideally next summer we need to look for 3 quality players, Keeper, CB and CM. Everything else is good enough to go into next season with, especially if we don't have any European commitments


I think for someone who just came into this completely new league and culture he's done well so far when he's played, but I agree with x-off, for Honda to be utilised correctly and to his full potential he needs to be positioned in the centre, not on the wing where his lack of pace is exposed

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 7 2014, 01:10 AM

Yeah, Honda is not fast, why the f*ck play him on the wing???

Posted by: drucurl Mar 7 2014, 03:01 AM

My biggest concern about Honda is that he can't get past one marker
Even slow as f**k P!rlo

Posted by: milanbuf88 Mar 7 2014, 07:31 AM

Assuming no departures I would be ok with those guys as our starters. Kaka would be the first sub in and Pazzini would still be important. I'd really like to see us grab a solid keeper and at least one good CB. I wouldn't say no to a great CM like han wants but I'd say that would be third priority and we all know how little gets done some of our transfer windows.

Posted by: milanbuf88 Mar 7 2014, 07:34 AM

I don't think we need more than three strikers so it would be either Paloschi or Petgna. I'd be ok with bringing Palo back and loaning out Petgna if they want to get him more game time elsewhere.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Mar 7 2014, 10:30 AM

Centre backs, goal keeper, depth in mid-field. Then we can look at options up front imo.

4-2-3-1 alone is a risky formation to play. Eventually as it happens in modern leagues these days, you get found out. Might be good to have other options of play.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 7 2014, 10:38 AM

I don't think a plan B is realistic. Not a serious one at least. But maybe Seedorf surprises us.

A important thing will be the fullback position. If Abate leaves, we need a serious replacement.

As for Petagna, I'd rather send him out on loan and call back Paloschi.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 7 2014, 12:08 PM

I think Seedorf has shown us a sort of plan B for his 4-2-3-1. When he wants to take a mort cautious approach he switches it to a 4-4-1-1. We saw this at the beginning against Atletico when we were under pressure, but then reverted to the 4-2-3-1 while we were attacking, same thing against Juve.

Also with the players we have who play on the wing, it's something we can easily revert to, SES and Taraabt are the obvious choices as they seemingly don't mind doing the dirty work and tracking back, Poli also seems to be ok with carrying out the task on the wing or in the centre when necessary as he played a more defensive role on the wing against Atletico and then did a more defensive job in the centre on Pirlo against Juve while Kaka switched to the wing.


If Abate is sold that creates a big problem for us as DS is our only viable option for RB when in reality he should be starting on the left. What FB aside from an average one will be willing to come in and be a sub for DS though since Seedorf seems to want him on the right...

I think the only smart option aside from the obvious one of keeping Abate and switching DS to the left (which Seedorf seems very reluctant to do) is to bring in someone like Santon who can also play either side, but that means dropping Urby as well (which Seedorf also seems reluctant to do) as I can't see Santon wanting to play a bench role, not to mention the hefty price Newcastle would ask for him, basically we'd spend all the profit we'd make off of Abate on Santon

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 7 2014, 12:23 PM

I think we need someone who provides the necessary assist quota. Santon is one of my favorite players, but he isn't that good in this department as well. But Seedorf's Holland style system depends on this: Ajax had Reiziger, Bayern have Lahm, Barcelona Alves and van Bronckhorst. It's one important component we'll have to improve/think of. This is why I think Zee will keep Urby in the end.

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 7 2014, 12:38 PM

Udinese-Milan thread, anyone? It's tomorrow.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 7 2014, 02:09 PM

Urby has the same assist haul as Abate this season. He's not really someone you'd count on making assists either. I don't think that's why Seedorf favours him


I'll open it

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 7 2014, 02:12 PM

Abate has 1, Urby 2 - not the same, but marginal difference. I think it is - Urby (in theory) offers more for the offensive build-up and linking. Problem is, Emanuelson is simply not good enough.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 7 2014, 02:20 PM

2? Are you sure? I only remember one cross which Monto scored off...