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> Winter Transfers 2015

 
han2503
post Dec 27 2014, 06:25 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Dec 27 2014, 05:16 PM) *
What makes you think his price will increase in the future?

I personally believe that he'll be able to regain form and start to play well again in the near future. That's just my personal opinion on the matter though

Of course I could be totally wrong, but with that being said, what's there to lose be giving him more time with us? It's not like Pippo is playing him each week no matter what, it's not like he's on a large wage, guys like Muntari earn more than him just to put that into perspective.

Selling him now only means we'll be losing out as we'll be losing on what we initially paid for him.

Basically, we have nothing to gain by selling him now aside from a few million that won't be reinvested wisely anyway, and nothing to lose by sticking with him for another season or two and giving him a chance, (even better if it's not as a starter as the pressure would be completely off him).

If he's still not doing well by then, we can see about selling him, his price at this point won't make any drastic jumps unless he starts scoring again, it can only sky rocket (as it's already plummeted as far as it could go imo)
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Milan Are Brilli...
post Dec 27 2014, 07:37 PM
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Chelsea's official Twitter have confirmed we're getting Torres on a full-time deal, hope they've been hacked.
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han2503
post Dec 27 2014, 07:41 PM
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QUOTE (Milan Are Brilliant @ Dec 27 2014, 07:37 PM) *
Chelsea's official Twitter have confirmed we're getting Torres on a full-time deal, hope they've been hacked.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

That seems to be a common theme as of late...
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Danny
post Dec 27 2014, 09:12 PM
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QUOTE (Milan Are Brilliant @ Dec 27 2014, 06:37 PM) *
Chelsea's official Twitter have confirmed we're getting Torres on a full-time deal, hope they've been hacked.


Nope, official. We've basically turned the ludicrous wording of the original deal, a two year loan, into what it really was - a permanent free transfer.

He now goes out to Atleti and the way loans work, THEY pay the wage. I suspect this was done to avoid paying the wage while he was at Atleti - smart move really.

And we will pay Cerci's wage while he's here, however long that is.

So we've ended up with a top class winger worth £20M by using Torres as currency, who himself we got for free.

Galliani is many things, but f*cking clever in the free transfer market is one of them.
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han2503
post Dec 27 2014, 09:24 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 27 2014, 09:12 PM) *
Nope, official. We've basically turned the ludicrous wording of the original deal, a two year loan, into what it really was - a permanent free transfer.

He now goes out to Atleti and the way loans work, THEY pay the wage. I suspect this was done to avoid paying the wage while he was at Atleti - smart move really.

And we will pay Cerci's wage while he's here, however long that is.

So we've ended up with a top class winger worth £20M by using Torres as currency, who himself we got for free.

Galliani is many things, but f*cking clever in the free transfer market is one of them.

Using that phrasing VERY loosely there Danny
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Danny
post Dec 27 2014, 10:43 PM
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For me there's:

Average: SES

Good: Enner Valencia

Great: Cerci/Menez (Close to top class)

Top class: Iturbe, Gervinho

World class: Ribery, Robben

It was a loose use of the phrase top class. I know he's not incredible. Same with Menez when he's not on his game. But we'd much rather have these guys than not.
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X-Offender
post Dec 27 2014, 11:03 PM
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I'd put Cerci in the 'good' bracket. He's not great IMO.
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Forza Milan!
post Dec 27 2014, 11:08 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 27 2014, 10:12 PM) *
Nope, official. We've basically turned the ludicrous wording of the original deal, a two year loan, into what it really was - a permanent free transfer.

He now goes out to Atleti and the way loans work, THEY pay the wage. I suspect this was done to avoid paying the wage while he was at Atleti - smart move really.

And we will pay Cerci's wage while he's here, however long that is.

So we've ended up with a top class winger worth £20M by using Torres as currency, who himself we got for free.

Galliani is many things, but f*cking clever in the free transfer market is one of them.

I agree Galliani has done some rather amazing deals over the years. However, sometimes he is a little too clever for his own good, missing out on opportunities (while trying to "squeeze" the most out of a situation) or focusing on the wrong player (as he looks for "deals" rather than "quality" and "fit").

As for this one, it looks like it could be great for us, though I have some nagging concerns about Cerci (FWIW, my brother, who is a Fiorentina fan, thinks we are crazy for wanting him - not so much his playing ability but his attitude).
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Forza Milan!
post Dec 27 2014, 11:16 PM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ Dec 27 2014, 07:25 PM) *
I personally believe that he'll be able to regain form and start to play well again in the near future. That's just my personal opinion on the matter though

Of course I could be totally wrong, but with that being said, what's there to lose be giving him more time with us? It's not like Pippo is playing him each week no matter what, it's not like he's on a large wage, guys like Muntari earn more than him just to put that into perspective.

Selling him now only means we'll be losing out as we'll be losing on what we initially paid for him.

Basically, we have nothing to gain by selling him now aside from a few million that won't be reinvested wisely anyway, and nothing to lose by sticking with him for another season or two and giving him a chance, (even better if it's not as a starter as the pressure would be completely off him).

If he's still not doing well by then, we can see about selling him, his price at this point won't make any drastic jumps unless he starts scoring again, it can only sky rocket (as it's already plummeted as far as it could go imo)

Looks like there were some teams interested in him, so we may still get a reasonable amount if we sell him now. I agree that we should not sell him for peanuts. However, the problem with holding on to him is that his form may never improve, in which case other teams will lose interest and we will get even less when he leaves. As I see it, we have given him enough opportunities this year, and he is not getting any better. Even Pippo has kind of given up on him.
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Danny
post Dec 27 2014, 11:46 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Dec 27 2014, 10:03 PM) *
I'd put Cerci in the 'good' bracket. He's not great IMO.


We'd have said the same about Menez. But his performances this season have suggested he's capable of great/top class.

Cerci hasn't achieved a lot in his career, but his path is similar to Jeremy. Spent his whole career (Roma aside in Menez case) in his home country getting a decent chunk of caps without ever really being courted by the giants of the game.

And indeed Menez' attitude was cited as a reason he hadn't made it truly. Maybe same applies to Cerci.

After all, if we can get this much from Menez, maybe Cerci will give us similar.

It's a signing I wanted last summer, and I remain delighted with it.

We're one striker away from the best we can realistically be in our current guise.
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Danny
post Dec 27 2014, 11:49 PM
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QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Dec 27 2014, 10:08 PM) *
I agree Galliani has done some rather amazing deals over the years. However, sometimes he is a little too clever for his own good, missing out on opportunities (while trying to "squeeze" the most out of a situation) or focusing on the wrong player (as he looks for "deals" rather than "quality" and "fit").

As for this one, it looks like it could be great for us, though I have some nagging concerns about Cerci (FWIW, my brother, who is a Fiorentina fan, thinks we are crazy for wanting him - not so much his playing ability but his attitude).


Oh yeah he makes mistakes, but we all do.

But ultimately he's brought in Armero, Agazzi, Lopez, Bonaventura, Van Ginkel, Menez, Alex, Torres, and now Cerci for a combined total of £6M.

Attitude as in dedication to his profession or what...?

And every signing is a gamble. Of the list above though, only Torres has been a blatant flop. Even Armero started to improve.
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Forza Milan!
post Dec 28 2014, 04:00 AM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 28 2014, 12:49 AM) *
Oh yeah he makes mistakes, but we all do.

But ultimately he's brought in Armero, Agazzi, Lopez, Bonaventura, Van Ginkel, Menez, Alex, Torres, and now Cerci for a combined total of £6M.

Attitude as in dedication to his profession or what...?

And every signing is a gamble. Of the list above though, only Torres has been a blatant flop. Even Armero started to improve.

Yeah, (despite all of my criticism) I have to admit that this has been a very good year for Galliani. (And I am not going to blame Torres' lack of form on Galliani, it was worth a try plus he has found a way to use him to improve the squad.)
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han2503
post Dec 28 2014, 09:20 AM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 27 2014, 10:43 PM) *
For me there's:

Average: SES

Good: Enner Valencia

Great: Cerci/Menez (Close to top class)

Top class: Iturbe, Gervinho

World class: Ribery, Robben

It was a loose use of the phrase top class. I know he's not incredible. Same with Menez when he's not on his game. But we'd much rather have these guys than not.

For me, Cerci and Menez would go into good and Iturbe and Gervinho would go into great (I don't think Gervinho is all that and Iturbe hasn't gotten into the top class bracket yet imo)

As for Menez, his reasons for not being considered a great player by people in general is because he's inconsistent and his attitude doesn't help matters much. With Cerci it's different, first off, I don't think the talent is comparable, I think Menez is a much more naturally gifted player, the problem is that he never really applied himself. Cerci is a decent player but would never call him great. I think you're forgetting that he's flopped for every half decent to decent team that he was ever with. He's how old now? And only has one good season with Torino under his belt, he got the big money move he wanted and just wasn't good enough to deliver on it

For me when saying top class/world class there isn't much of a difference, those 2 levels are reserved for the best players around

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Dec 27 2014, 11:03 PM) *
I'd put Cerci in the 'good' bracket. He's not great IMO.

Agreed

QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Dec 27 2014, 11:08 PM) *
I agree Galliani has done some rather amazing deals over the years. However, sometimes he is a little too clever for his own good, missing out on opportunities (while trying to "squeeze" the most out of a situation) or focusing on the wrong player (as he looks for "deals" rather than "quality" and "fit").

As for this one, it looks like it could be great for us, though I have some nagging concerns about Cerci (FWIW, my brother, who is a Fiorentina fan, thinks we are crazy for wanting him - not so much his playing ability but his attitude).

Yep, agreed, especially about the Cerci bit

QUOTE (Danny @ Dec 27 2014, 11:46 PM) *
We'd have said the same about Menez. But his performances this season have suggested he's capable of great/top class.

Cerci hasn't achieved a lot in his career, but his path is similar to Jeremy. Spent his whole career (Roma aside in Menez case) in his home country getting a decent chunk of caps without ever really being courted by the giants of the game.

And indeed Menez' attitude was cited as a reason he hadn't made it truly. Maybe same applies to Cerci.

After all, if we can get this much from Menez, maybe Cerci will give us similar.

It's a signing I wanted last summer, and I remain delighted with it.

We're one striker away from the best we can realistically be in our current guise.

As I said above, I really don't think Menez and Cerci's situations are all that similar, Cerci has never really had any problems with behaviour as far as I know, his problem is that he's a fairly limited player and has never been able to cut it for a big club, Menez has the natural talent that imo, had he applied himself when he was younger, he'd be in the top class bracket now, but that's never been him.

I think you're waaay overrating Cerci imo. By your standards he should be considered average as he's had just as many good seasons as SES ;)
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X-Offender
post Dec 28 2014, 11:32 AM
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QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Dec 27 2014, 11:16 PM) *
Looks like there were some teams interested in him, so we may still get a reasonable amount if we sell him now. I agree that we should not sell him for peanuts. However, the problem with holding on to him is that his form may never improve, in which case other teams will lose interest and we will get even less when he leaves. As I see it, we have given him enough opportunities this year, and he is not getting any better. Even Pippo has kind of given up on him.


If I were Gallaini I'd push for a permanent swap between him and Immobile. Maybe Dortmund are interested?
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Danny
post Dec 28 2014, 12:18 PM
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QUOTE (han2503 @ Dec 28 2014, 08:20 AM) *
For me, Cerci and Menez would go into good and Iturbe and Gervinho would go into great (I don't think Gervinho is all that and Iturbe hasn't gotten into the top class bracket yet imo)

As for Menez, his reasons for not being considered a great player by people in general is because he's inconsistent and his attitude doesn't help matters much. With Cerci it's different, first off, I don't think the talent is comparable, I think Menez is a much more naturally gifted player, the problem is that he never really applied himself. Cerci is a decent player but would never call him great. I think you're forgetting that he's flopped for every half decent to decent team that he was ever with. He's how old now? And only has one good season with Torino under his belt, he got the big money move he wanted and just wasn't good enough to deliver on it


Not sure I'd agree. Cerci's a winger, and Atleti don't play with them. His signing raised eyebrows this summer, no one could understand why Simeone had brought in a winger at all, never mind that particular one. He didn't start many matches as he simply didn't fit into the system.

And I wouldn't say he flopped at Fiorentina? 7 goals in 19 starts in 2012/2013 isn't a flop for a winger. Since basically 2012 he's just got better and better. A late bloomer, you could say. Many stories of that in football.

QUOTE
For me when saying top class/world class there isn't much of a difference, those 2 levels are reserved for the best players around


Yeah there's a difference. Top class is a highly regarded player who will regularly get yer 10-20M moves, but world class is reserved only for the truly, truly best. Diego Costa is world class, Vidal is world class, Iturbe top class.

QUOTE
As I said above, I really don't think Menez and Cerci's situations are all that similar, Cerci has never really had any problems with behaviour as far as I know, his problem is that he's a fairly limited player and has never been able to cut it for a big club,


Apart from Fiorentina. Roma he barely played and didn't suit them, same as Atleti.

QUOTE
Menez has the natural talent that imo, had he applied himself when he was younger, he'd be in the top class bracket now, but that's never been him.

I think you're waaay overrating Cerci imo. By your standards he should be considered average as he's had just as many good seasons as SES (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


None? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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