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Posted by: han2503 Sep 6 2014, 01:09 PM

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 6 2014, 01:32 PM

Wow, nice effort Han. Keep up the good work.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 6 2014, 02:01 PM

Thanks, trying to make these a little more interesting, especially since it's only Serie A this season

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 6 2014, 02:12 PM

Plus Coppa games

But very good work indeed.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 6 2014, 02:24 PM

Yeah, the Coppa too, maybe we can finally put in some decent displays in that competition


I think this is the game where we can finally talk about how the new players will be fitting in. I'm curious to see how Pippo will use Bonaventura, whether he'll use Van Ginkel from the start and how Torres will fit into the attacking line.

Also curious who he'll choose between Menez and Honda

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 6 2014, 02:38 PM

I'd pick Honda to be honest, and Menez as a bench sub for the last half an hour.

Lazio was a good game, but I hope we won't underestimate Parma. It must be said that Lazio isn't the same as in recent years, they've simply lost too many good players, while others are old and shabby.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 6 2014, 02:50 PM

I would always play Menez. He's the exact kind of player we need upfront.



Hm, I actually thought Lazio got stronger this season.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 6 2014, 03:06 PM

Really? How exactly?

Pioli is a bad coach IMO and I cannot see how he was selected as Lazio coach in the first place. By getting Bologna relegated?

Playing Lulić in the middle for example didn't help, on the contrary. They've lost defensive stability without Biava and Dias (who I don't rate that high, but they did a solid job) and looked too many times totally out of sync (even for the first league match). Klose and Radu seem too old and out of shape, while the team lacks a true midfielder in Hernanes. Only Mauri showed the necessary spark.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 6 2014, 03:39 PM

Well Parma did beat us twice over last season, so yeah, we should approach it with caution

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 6 2014, 05:17 PM

Well, they got Basta, De Vrij and Parolo (whom I consider a mediocre player, but for a team like Lazio he's appropriate). Plus they managed to keep Candreva. Maybe I made a mistake in saying they got stronger, but they certainly aren't as weak as you portray them compared to previous seasons.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 6 2014, 05:32 PM

I think their squad got stronger, just maybe not their first XI. I like Basta as a player, great work rate.

Is their any doubt Biabiany is going to score against us after this summers pursuit of him?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 6 2014, 05:45 PM

Basta is a good player. Undecided on de Vrij. His debut was abysmal. Yes, Parolo will find his place in the team. But without a real good coach, a solid defense and someone who can start the actions, I don't see how it's gonna work. I'd prefer all the previous Lazio selection to this one. There's just too many question marks.

Posted by: Danny Sep 7 2014, 03:08 PM

Ditto.

Or a front line of Torres, El-Sha & Niang?

PS I echo your sentiments about the match threads - excellent work Han, they're looking good.

Posted by: Danny Sep 7 2014, 03:09 PM

Me too then I watched them opening day v us and they were ghastly. Along with us being very good.

Posted by: Danny Sep 7 2014, 03:10 PM

Last season we were Milanotelli. Now we're a team.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 7 2014, 03:22 PM

Thanks

And personally I don't think Niang should be starting, or played on the wing, I'd like to see him get some minutes as a CF, both in the Coppa and as a sub

Posted by: Danny Sep 8 2014, 01:46 AM

I said that more because I'm dubious at best about Menez. I feel he carries no threat going forward. And I know, I know, everyone thought he was great V Lazio, but I didn't see that player.

So I hope he shows me how wrong I am V Parma.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 8 2014, 11:50 AM

Still I don't think the solution is Niang on the wing, he's very obviously not a winger, playing him there is a complete waste and makes him look worse than he really is

I have a feeling that Pippo will be sticking with Honda there anyway, he's in good form atm and scoring goals, even though he's obviously not going to be showing what he can really do on the wing, he's still producing there atm, so I think Pippo will stick with him for now

I'm mostly curious as to who he'll pick for the midfield 3. I'm personally hoping he'll just shove both Bonaventura and Van Ginkel in instead of Poli and Muntari who were both disappointing against Lazio (well Poli was disappointing, Muntari was his usual idiotic self)

Posted by: Danny Sep 8 2014, 12:49 PM

Half the reason for Honda's renaissance is that yes, though he is on the right, he's also being given the freedom to be more central too. So he's probably operating around 60-70% capacity rather than the 30-50% he was before.

Agree on MvG, De Jong and Bonaventura for midfield although I thought Poli had a good game v Lazio.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 8 2014, 01:41 PM

Honda renaissance? Hopefully, but we're not yet there IMO. He still has to prove he can maintain his good form.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 8 2014, 02:18 PM

Honda's in good form, but still I think he can do much better if played in midfield. Even if he's at 100%, even if he gives everything he's got, he's simply not suited for playing as winger. He has absolutely no quality whatsoever to cover that role, like speed, dribbling skills and physical strength. Menez is much more suited, and aside from what Danny thinks, he was really good against Lazio.

Posted by: Danny Sep 8 2014, 02:56 PM

Happy for him to prove me wrong, as I said.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 8 2014, 04:49 PM

I don't think it's a renaissance per se. I think he's more comfortable within the team and the group as both a player and a person. Coming in during the middle of the season while the club is in turmoil, the coach is on his last breath and then changing said coach within 2 weeks of being with the new team cannot be easy for anyone, especially someone who's going to experience such a major culture shock as Honda would have experienced.

I still think that it's as x-off said, he's totally wasted on the wing so I don't think we're even seeing the 60-70% you're mentioning. His place should either be in the midfield 3 or just behind SES and Torres.

As for Poli, I've mentioned this before but I really do think that he needs a proper passing player next to him to do well, by passing, I mean a player who can control the tempo. He's more of a quick 1-2 player. And what I saw against Lazio was a lot of running and huffing and puffing and very little in terms of match involvement and crucial passes. He works hard defensively which I like but we do have De Jong for that and Poli is mostly needed for the midfield to help provide a link with the attack, which he wasn't really doing.

I just personally don't see him as a starter in the near future, especially if Van Ginkel and Bonaventura (we should really find a shorter name for him) click into the team, and once Monto returns from his injury, it will be even more difficult for him to find space.


I think he needs to be given a proper chance in the centre to really show what he can do before we judge him on anything tbh. Even the good he's doing now is marred by the fact that he's being limited in that winger position and you know he can do a lot better than that


Agreed

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 8 2014, 09:51 PM

Which do you guys prefer?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 8 2014, 10:03 PM

The left one, minus van Ginkel. I'd play Poli.

Posted by: KillerMax Sep 9 2014, 12:56 AM

Left one!

Posted by: Danny Sep 9 2014, 03:51 PM

Neither will happen given it's 4-3-3 formation Pippo insists on.

I don't even know if I like either of them - one on the left didn't really work under Seedorf at all, and the one on the right is imbalanced.

I'd prefer:

MvG -- De Jong -- Bonaventura

Menez----Torres--------SES

Yes, I'm giving Menez a chance, ain't that good of me. That or Honda behind Torres and SES for a 1-2.

Posted by: Danny Sep 9 2014, 03:52 PM

Actually, I misread the one on the right. That's closer to my vision. Just would rather the midfield is a flatter 3 than a reverse triangle.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 9 2014, 08:49 PM

Just because it didn't work under Seedorf doesn't mean it won't work under Pippo. First of all, it had completely different players. Kaká, Robinho, Taarabt, Balotelli, all of which are gone.

The problem is that I have a slight feeling if Pippo ever used it, he would play Menez behind Torres and Honda on the wing...

Posted by: William405 Sep 9 2014, 09:08 PM

The formation is working for now, why change it? It fits our players perfectly.

Posted by: Danny Sep 9 2014, 09:14 PM

My point exactly. Adapt if things go wrong but for now we have something working. No need to alter it.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 10 2014, 01:18 PM

Well, yes, I agree. It's still too early to change. But even going with 4-3-3, I still think http://lineupbuilder.com/?sk=4vx93 is our best line-up.

Posted by: milanbuf88 Sep 10 2014, 02:46 PM

I like that line up but I'd like to see Honda actually play in the midfield three before that line up is declared our best. Bonnaventura and Van Ginkel also deserve a chance to show what they've got in that spot.

Posted by: Danny Sep 10 2014, 03:48 PM

http://lineupbuilder.com/?sk=4vy0j

That would be mine. I'm going on the assumption Menez picks up, and that Torres does well.

But the midfield picks itself.

PS you're not going with Mexes?

Posted by: milanbuf88 Sep 10 2014, 06:06 PM

I wouldn't write Poli off just yet.

Posted by: Danny Sep 10 2014, 08:02 PM

I'm not, I like him a lot. But I don't think he's as good as either MvG or Bonaventura. If we played a four he'd be my fourth selection alongside them.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 10 2014, 08:09 PM

Like I said in a previous post, both Alex and Zapata were impressive against Lazio, so I think it's appropriate to stick with them for now.



The Bonaventura obsession is a tad weird. He's 25, been called up only once for the NT in a friendly against San Marino. Why are we so sure he's so awesome?

Posted by: Danny Sep 10 2014, 08:58 PM

Fair enough. They're my first-choice and have been since the Trofeo.



It's more that I know what Poli's limits are. He is a Gattuso figure, a harrying worker who will run all day but doesn't offer a lot in the final third. Meanwhile Bonaventura does, while also being a fully-capable CM.

Just strikes me that De Jong as DM, MvG as CM and Bonaventura as AM is a better balance than having De Jong & Poli with MvG.

They COULD work together as a four, but not as a 3. For a 3 you need your DM, CM, and AM. Not a DM, DM and CM.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 10 2014, 09:32 PM

Gattuso? More of a Ambrosini, but I wouldn't compare him to any of the two. Flamini is the nearest I suppose.

Obsession? I wouldn't say obsession, but I've seen Bonaventura play and he's been good (also against Milan) on various occasions. He may lack consistency, but well, this is his first big step, we'll see what turns out. He gives hope, that's sure.

As for the fantasy line-ups and formations. I know it's only one match, but yesterday De Sciglio played pretty good on the left for Conte's Italy. What do you guys say of a Juventus-style 3 man defense (Alex-Mexes-Zapata/Bonera/Rami) and two wingbacks?

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 10 2014, 10:52 PM

By that logic then I would prefer Honda over Bonaventura.



I've thought of it. It's not a bad idea. We have the players.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 11 2014, 10:30 AM

I personally hate a 3-man defence system.

I think we're better off with a 4

Posted by: Danny Sep 11 2014, 10:33 AM

To paraphrase yourself, 'what's the obsession over Honda'

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 11 2014, 10:35 AM

I'm not a fan as well. But like X-O pointed out, we have the players to do it.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 11 2014, 10:38 AM

I personally think DS is better as a proper FB than a WB, same goes with Abate

Also, I think our CBs, Zapata aside have never really played in a back 3

Posted by: Danny Sep 11 2014, 11:12 AM

It's a dangerous formation to simply jump into when you've not really worked on it in competitive matches before.

I'd rather stick with our 4.

Posted by: William405 Sep 11 2014, 11:45 AM

High Five #ParmaMilan

http://youtu.be/MI6sYlfM1TE?list=UUKcx1uK38H4AOkmfv4ywlrg

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 11 2014, 11:50 AM

Very good compilation. So many memories...Pirlo's last goal for us, Maurizio Ganz and his stunner for our comeback...

And I love how they've included Dida's save into this one as well. Usually it's only goals.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 11 2014, 11:59 AM

Agreed


I think they included saves in the Lazio compilation as well. Milan channel trying to get creative

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 11 2014, 12:03 PM

And they are. Good job really.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 11 2014, 01:25 PM

I don't know, maybe because I've actually seen Honda play on a constant basis, and I know how good he can be.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 11 2014, 02:16 PM

I must be one of the few here who think he cannot play in the mid three. Our formation hasn't allowed for a pure creator in the mid three for a long time. And truth be told we can't.

Not since Rino lost his legs, did we have the freedom of playing both Seedorf and Pirlo in the midfield three. If you remember once Rino lost his legs, we immediately put in Ambrosini and pushed Zee up while taking off an additional striker.

I wonder if we're making the mistake of thinking De Jong is a Gattuso type who can do the work of two people in midfield. Because he absolutely isn't.

For me I think Honda in his current position is fine. He 'starts in position' on that right wing, but the system has allowed him a lot of freedom to make runs at will, and run in to the centre. I notice that is very different from Zee who had a very rigid implementation of the 4-2-3-1.

Probably to get his 'best' which is to say to get the best position he has played in from past record, we'd have to go to an X-Mas tree or a Pyramid/Diamond 4-3-1-2.

I don't like that personally, because to play Honda in position we often end up having to play 2 players out of their favoured position. I'm more hopeful Honda will be able to stylise his play to become more effective where he is.

Posted by: Danny Sep 11 2014, 02:40 PM

As AM, perhaps, not CM.

Posted by: Danny Sep 11 2014, 02:41 PM

I think it's X Off that's the only one who wants Honda as CM rather than the majority.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 11 2014, 03:37 PM

Well to make a tl;dr I would say that I think it would be easier for Honda to learn to play starting from the right and moving around from there, as opposed to learning how to defend a right flank in our porous midfield.

Besides, it might actually be advantageous that way, since they can't place a CDM to man mark Honda out of a game.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 11 2014, 04:17 PM

What? No way did Rino lose his legs by 2006/2007. He was in top form then. And he kept paying great until he was injured in 2008 and then kept out by Leonardo. Rino lost his legs, if we wanna put it that way, by 2010/11, the year of the scudetto.



Bonaventura has never played as CM either for that matter, always as AM/LW.



Pretty sure I'm not the only one.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 11 2014, 05:54 PM

Oh? Because I believe he has played as a LM? In the leftmost position of the 4-4-2. Most important thing with Jack Bonaventura is he gives us cover for either of our wingers.

Posted by: Danny Sep 11 2014, 07:40 PM

He could possibly adapt to that slot but I'm explicitly NOT advocating him for CM. Only as AM. CM would be MvG, and DM De Jong.

It doesn't strengthen your case for Honda as CM when I didn't propose Bona for that slot either.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 11 2014, 08:11 PM

Simply cannot disagree more Jack!

"Our formation hasn't allowed for a pure creator in the mid three for a long time." No, that's our coaches, Allegri was the one who didn't like having a pure creator in the midfield, he used f@cking Boateng as a trequartista FFS!! That's how allergic he was to playing a creator in midfield. He ousted Pirlo and mostly relied on Seedorf who I wouldn't call a pure creator like Pirlo or Kaka were under Carlo. He even used 3 DMs at times.

It is actually the complete opposite of that, our midfield is absolutely DESPERATE for a creator, someone who can actually use the ball smartly and not pass it sideways/backwards or lump it forward. This mentality was only introduced by Allegri.

Carlo reverted to using both Ambro and Rino when we sold Sheva and started using the xmas tree. He pushed Seedorf up and played Kaka as a SS behind the poacher (Pippo/Gila). And that's why we started struggling a lot in Serie A because we just couldn't break down opposing teams when they parked the bus.

With Seedorf we're talking a completely different system so he shouldn't factor in the discussion. Pippo is going to be using a 3-man midfield, just like what Carlo did and what Allegri did.

The Rino type of player is extinct these days, and no top team can afford to have someone who's just in there to break down the plays, they want all rounders, players who are great on both sides of the ball. Look at Barca, they have Busquets, every other pure DM they ever had they used in the defence, Real have Khedira, Chelsea have Matic or Ramires, etc, etc.

This obsession we have with DMs is incredibly ridiculous, we have De Jong, who's a pure anchor player, no need for any other player who does the dirty work and makes the simple pass. Ideally our midfield should be De Jong, 1 pure creative CM (Monto, Honda, Jack) and 1 two-way player who's good on both sides of the ball, that obviously MvG for me and Poli his immediate sub with Muntari being able to sub for all 3 when needed.

Any combination that involves De Jong and Muntari or Essien is just over kill, especially for Serie A, when you need your midfield to be fast and fluid to break stubborn teams down


Actually I'm all for it.

He's a relatively slow player who is pure shite at dribbling imo. He absolutely shouldn't be used on the wing. Yes in an ideal world he'd be used in the traditional AM/trequartista role, but we're not going to be playing with a system that makes use of that position this season, so imo, if we want to get the best out of him he needs to be in an area where his best attributes can be put on show, and imo, he'd be great at CM. He's capable of tracking back, probably even better than that lazy @ss Muntari. And he'd be in a position where his passing and vision can be of great use to the squad, because I do think he's probably our best passer and creative mind in the side

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 11 2014, 08:26 PM

http://www.football-italia.net/55777/milan-test-torres-trident

Posted by: han2503 Sep 11 2014, 08:43 PM

They said he could be ready for the Norway game... How come they're now saying that he's a doubt for Sunday? I seriously hope this is not going to be a Pato type situation with SES.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 11 2014, 08:59 PM

Firstly, are you certain that he has played as LM? Because for what I know he's always been used as a pure attacking player at Atalanta. Secondly, even if has played as LM, there's a difference between that role and a CM. Would you have played Nedved as CM? Or Nani? Or Ribery? Two completely different roles, Jack.



Then you're proposing a 4-2-3-1 formation, as 4-3-3 advocates for a 3-man midfield with no AM.

And Honda has played as CM at CSKA in the past, so there's that.



Agreed on everything.

Posted by: Danny Sep 11 2014, 09:38 PM

No I'm not. No it doesn't.



Yeah? Well plenty players get used out of position and we whine. Now you're advocating it. The guy's an AM. I don't buy him as CM at all.

His best slot, as seen at the WC and pre-season is trequartista or one of the flanks with the freedom to cut in. Which is why he doesn't really work to his full potential at Milan.

Posted by: Danny Sep 11 2014, 09:38 PM

It's what I feared. I hope I'm wrong as he's had a very productive start to the new season.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 11 2014, 10:06 PM

Care to explain?



I'm proposing him as CM only because I think he's wasted on the wing. Whether as CM or winger, he's out of position, but at least as CM his abilities are used to a better extent.

Posted by: Danny Sep 11 2014, 10:27 PM

The modern 4-3-3 is the DM/CM/AM as a flat 3 in the middle - the 'Barcelona' model, if you like, with one holding DM, one all-round CM, and one attack-minded AM. With the 3 prong attack up top. That's what Pippo's playing, not your 2-3-1 you seem to be changing my formation to.



I agree he's wasted on the wing, and I agree in principle as a CM his abilities might be better deployed but neither is him at remotely full capacity. And there's no point putting a 60-70% Honda in over a 100% van Ginkel, for example, just for the sake of getting 'more' out of Honda.

Why drop a dedicated CM for a trequartisa who is weaker in CM?

And we wouldn't sign Bonaventura for 7M if he wasn't going to start so I don't think his place is up for grabs in Honda's favour.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 11 2014, 10:43 PM

Is it? What team other than Barça have played an AM in a 3-man midfield? And how can you say that's what Pippo is playing when our 3 midfielders have been De Jong, Poli and Muntari up to this point.



The idea here is that if Bonaventura can play as CM, so can Honda. And between the two, I'd choose Honda.

Posted by: Danny Sep 11 2014, 11:38 PM

Because we didn't have the archetypal model to play the Barca midfield - that's WHY we brought in MvG & Bona. But to be pedantic De Jong was playing DM, Poli the CM and Muntari the AM. It wasn't the most ideal solution but it did seem to work.

And other teams using 4-3-3 with an AM? Brendan Rodgers' Liverpool does, with Allen or Henderson taking turns to be the Xavi or the Iniesta. Jose's Lampard Chelsea did too, Lampard being the AM.



My idea is he's the AM. MvG is the CM. Bona is the AM. And it's therefore not a choice between Honda and Bona, but Honda and MvG. And MvG is my choice.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 12 2014, 12:57 AM

How can Muntari ever be considered an AM???

Lampard has always been a CM rather than an AM. The same can be said about Allen. They aren't perfect attacking players, which what a typical AM or trequartista is about. Rui Costa, Kaká, Totti, Boban, Savicevic, these are players deemed as AM that cannot be imagined in a 3-man midfield.

Maybe you and I just have different definitions of what an AM is, but when I think of a 3-man midfield, I think of an anchor and two CMs, one being creative and one being more of a box-to-box type of player. In the context of our team, I consider Poli and MvG to be the latter, and Honda to be the former. Bonaventura, not so much. He strikes me more of the above mentioned category of Rui Costa and the others.



Wait, what? If Honda is the AM, and MvG is the CM, how can it be a choice between those two?

Posted by: Danny Sep 12 2014, 01:43 AM

Because he's explosive. He's got no creativity but he is extremely powerful in the final third, however much you dislike him. He also gets back as well, which helps the team, but the guy scores goals and he poses a threat. This is why I say him being AM is a bit crude and is why we've dipped into the market to buy a proper AM.



For a CM it's a hell of an achievement that Lampard is Chelsea's all-time top goalscorer

I'd also argue Totti is not a trequartista but a second striker. Maybe nowadays that he is slower he sits deeper in front of the midfield but when he was younger he was definitely a striker/supporting striker.



I think we do disagree on what an AM is. For me, it's the DM/CM/AM combination:

DM: Your dirty destroyer. Breaks up play and supports defence. De Jong.

CM: Contributes to this but supplies the flanks and uses vision to make the right pass forward and backward. van Ginkel. Also contributes to:

AM: Completely forward thinking - bursts forward, provides support to the CM but focuses mainly on supplying the wings and being an auxiliary forward when an attack is underway. Also responsible for the 'killer pass'. Bonaventura.



It isn't, it's a choice between Honda or Bona as AM. In my 3 De Jong and MvG are DM and CM respectively. The area we're arguably contending is AM. And Bona gets my vote.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 12 2014, 07:33 AM

I was following the convo and I was like "Huh" at this part.

We have 3 spots in midfield, one of those is locked down by De Jong, that's the centre position.

Now, we have 2 other spots, and they should be assigned as follows; one to a pure creator (that's either Honda or Bonaventura) and one to a midfield all-rounder (that's either MvG or Poli)

Monto can play either position when he returns

But the point is that what you're saying doesn't make sense because you're saying that it's a toss up between MvG and Honda for that all-rounder position, when it simply cannot be the case because we can't even have both Jack and Honda on the pitch at the same time.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 12 2014, 07:38 AM

Lampard is definitely a box-to-box CM for me. He was just brilliant at bursting into the box and scoring or shooting from range which is why he has those crazy numbers for a midfielder imo

And Totti has been used as CF/SS now, in the twilight of his career, at his peek he was a pure No. 10. I remember there was this huge issue about him and Del Piero when it came to the Azzurri, when there never really should have been. Totti is a pure creator, he's the definition of a trequartista imo. Del Piero is an SS.


I don't think you can call that position the "AM" position, you're describing the role of a CM who has the characteristics of a box-to-box player, hence Lampard

Posted by: han2503 Sep 12 2014, 08:01 AM

Probable line-up according to most sources (Milan Channel included)

I really do not want to whine and question Pippo as of yet.

But Bonera??? Muntari????

Bonera along with an equally slow Alex in the centre of defence is just asking for it imo. I seriously wonder why most coaches are so obsessed with him, that is until he completely lets them down and has a nightmarish performance, both Allegri and Seedorf had to go through this (Allegri twice over). Now Pippo is doing the same thing. I wonder when the calamity show will ensue... Hopefully not against Juve

And Muntari! Again! We have many options in midfield now, please Pippo! Do not make us suffer in watching this lazy idiot start anymore games for us unless it's a dire injury emergency he should be kept on the bench

Posted by: Danny Sep 12 2014, 11:19 AM

Then you're in slow mode



No, FFS!

I'm not saying it's a toss up between anyone, X-Off is. I'm just pointing out I'd have those 3 in midfield while X would have Honda there.

In fact if neither of you gets my point by now I'll just bow out this debate and lie in a dark room.

Posted by: Danny Sep 12 2014, 11:26 AM

Think it might be you who needs to lie down

About 1 of every 100 predicted lineups actually happens.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 12 2014, 12:31 PM

I don't think Pippo ever intended on playing Muntari as AM. In Pippo's 3-man midfield, up until now, there hasn't been an AM. Just an anchor and two muscle players. Not every 3-man midfield is built in your vision, Danny. Allegri used to play Ambro, Gattuso and Flamini together!



Yeah, I just don't see it that way. For me a 3-man midfield will always encompass a DM and two CMs. One of the CMs might be a creator or offensive-minded, but not an AM. I have another definition for that role.

And as Han said, Totti was a typical trequartista back in the day. If anything, it's now that he's being played as a striker.



OK, I perfectly get that, but what you said earlier doesn't support that view. You said "Honda is the AM. MvG is the CM. Bona is the AM. And it's therefore not a choice between Honda and Bona, but Honda and MvG. And MvG is my choice". How can it be a choice between Honda and MvG when they have different roles in your view?

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 12 2014, 12:33 PM

Mediaset has Zapata over Bonera. Remember most line-ups before the Lazio game had Bonera starting too, but then Zapata played.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 12 2014, 01:28 PM

Bonera started against Lazio as well.

I think Bonera will start on Sunday, Pippo seems to rely on him as a leader in the team

Posted by: Danny Sep 12 2014, 01:53 PM

X-Off in 'using Allegri to support his argument' shocker



I disagree.



It isn't, that's what I've been saying the past 3 or 4 posts.

I said that in rebut to your contention that Honda had to play as CM. I am NOT proposing him as CM, but YOU are, and then applying it to MY 3 man midfield he's contending with MvG, and not Bona.

Let's put this in plain English - what is your choice for 3 man mid. Mine is NDJ, MvG & Bona. DM, CM, AM. What's yours?

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 12 2014, 03:05 PM

De Jong, Poli/MvG and Honda.

And when I said I'd play Honda as CM, I obviously meant as AM in your view of things, cos like I said, in a 4-3-3 there's no AM/trequartista for me.

Posted by: Danny Sep 12 2014, 03:53 PM

Fair dues, we agree on NDJ/MvG at least. I'd choose the last one as Bona while you want Honda.

This all seems to have cleared itself up nicely!

Posted by: William405 Sep 12 2014, 05:55 PM

Well, that wasn't a very fruitful discussion.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 12 2014, 06:59 PM

I'm hoping Pippo plays at least one of Van Ginkel or Jack on Sunday, really excited to see how both of them fit into the squad and what they bring to it

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 12 2014, 08:25 PM

Expect MvG to come on for one of the midfield three and Jack B to come on for one of the wingers. With El Sharaawy out, this is exactly what we got him for.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 12 2014, 08:48 PM

+1

Posted by: Danny Sep 12 2014, 10:16 PM

I'm clearly missing something here. Jack?

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 12 2014, 10:28 PM

Giacomo "Jack" Bonaventura.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 12 2014, 10:39 PM

It's Giacomo in English. Much less of a mouthful than Bonaventura.

Although we might have some issues with all the Jacks we'll be referencing now

Posted by: Danny Sep 13 2014, 11:20 AM

I just call him Bona

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 13 2014, 12:18 PM

Pippo:

"El Shaarawy is out with an injury. He is very important for us, but we will try to replace him in the best possible way. I was hoping that El Shaarawy would recover, so that he at least could sit on the bench vs. Parma, but he won't be called up."

"Alex will play from the start against Parma tomorrow. I still haven't decided who the other central defender will be."

"Rami is a very good defender. I have no problems with him. I'm counting a lot on him."

"Torres? We will see if he plays from the start tomorrow. I will decide it after today's training session."

"Bonaventura and Torres are both in great shape. One of them will play from the start and the other will be on the bench tomorrow."

"Pazzini? I hold him in high regard. He will be important for us. I will try to use the whole squad in this season."

"Van Ginkel will be on the bench tomorrow. He still has to settle in, but he can play in all the 3 roles in midfield."

"Bonaventura in midfield? Not tomorrow. But he could play there during the season. We also have Saponara for that role."

"Honda has recovered from the long trip from Japan to Italy, so I think that he will play from the start tomorrow. Honda is an exemplary player. He always arrives on time for training, and I think that he also works out at home."

Posted by: Danny Sep 13 2014, 01:37 PM

Going by all that tomorrow's team is:

--------------Lopez

Abate-----Alex---Zapata----Bonera

Poli------De Jong-------Muntari

Menez------Pazzo/Torres-----Honda

No Bona or MvG. Can't express how disappointing that midfield selection is. Or how bewildering Bonera at LB again is. Yes, that's my conjecture but I have a feeling.

PS @ X Off - Pippo talking about the 'three roles in midfield' is kinda what I've been getting at.

PPS: Could all be mind games and he's going to select all the new players.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 13 2014, 02:47 PM

Yes there are 3 roles but I don't get the AM bit you were referencing tbh. The only teams that actually do/did that were Real and Barca (Di Maria/Iniesta), every other side that uses a 3 man midfield usually has a creator, a box-to-box guy and a DM. For me personally those are the 3 roles. Honda or Jack would be the creators

Posted by: Danny Sep 13 2014, 03:17 PM

Er, creator = treq = Bona
B2B = CM = MvG
DM = De Jong

I honestly don't understand the issue you two have grasping this!

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 13 2014, 03:19 PM

There's no issue, I grasp it perfectly, I just think the terminology you use is inappropriate. Had you said creator instead of AM I would have been more than fine with.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 13 2014, 04:30 PM

A creator is not necessarily a trequartista. imo it's even more inappropriate to call him a treq because the word is derived from the position on the pitch as far as I know

A creator can be a pure CM, Pirlo, Modric, Xavi, Cesc, Alonso, etc are all CMs who create

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 13 2014, 06:58 PM

Precisely.

Posted by: Danny Sep 13 2014, 07:43 PM

Even De Jong creates and he's a flipping DM.

The point is with the three you have the different positions, DM, CM, AM. But the dynamics of a three sees all 3 of them able to cover for EVERY ONE OF THE OTHERS when need be.

Primarily Honda/Bona is an AM but he can defend on occasion, like a DM, or feed players ahead of him, like a CM.

Primarily De Jong is a DM but he can get the passes out like a CM or score a belter of a headed goal V Inter, like an AM.

Primarily Poli is a CM but he can defend AND attack as well as work in the middle.

And that is my last f*ckin' post on this drivel. Had enough!

Posted by: han2503 Sep 13 2014, 07:55 PM

We're all going to talk in circles because we're arguing about completely different things imo, so we're never going to have a consensus

One last final point, I agree with everything you said above about the players' roles and contributions.

But for me, in a midfield 3 you have a CM, DM, CM. Honda or Bonaventura would have to play the role of a CM if they were to play in the 3. That's my main point because for me, there's no AM in the midfield 3 of a 4-3-3 formation. An AM for me only exists in a 4-3-1-2/4-3-2-1/4-2-3-1, all of which he's playing behind the striker/s

Posted by: Danny Sep 13 2014, 08:12 PM

Just reply to me with this from now on old friend

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 13 2014, 09:02 PM

Danny, Bonera almost certainly won't play as LB while DS is available. If he plays tomorrow (hope he won't ), it will be as CB.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 13 2014, 09:08 PM

Bonaventura might play instead of Torres tomorrow, Mediaset reports.

Jack-Menez-Honda? Not enough striker potential in there. Since SES is injured, Torres has to play.

Also, I really hope Zapata or Rami play instead of frigging Bonera. This guy must have a special charm or something for coaches to select him so often...

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 13 2014, 09:18 PM

He must be using a private detective to find dirt on them.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 13 2014, 09:26 PM

Posted by: Danny Sep 13 2014, 11:37 PM

I'd have thought the same with a world cup quarter finalist Colombian LB by the name of Armero in our squad v Lazio, but Bonera started over him too.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 13 2014, 11:45 PM

We'll just have to swallow down the fact that coaches just like Bonera, he's probably a good influence among the other players, has been here a long time, and let's not forget was team mates with our last and current coaches. So we just have to endure it for now (until he has his usual nightmarish showing and then he's banished to the bench for the rest of the season)

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 13 2014, 11:52 PM

Not the same. There have been reports that Pippo is still not convinced by Armero so him not starting wasn't a huge surprise (even though I disagree) but DS is a completely different story. I have no doubt that DS will be a sure starter.

Posted by: Danny Sep 14 2014, 12:36 AM

Perhaps, but at R or LB?

Posted by: Danny Sep 14 2014, 12:39 AM

But isn't this an unfair post? Every player has a stinker now and then. It's just when it was, for example, Balo back in the day, it saw us fail to score. When it's a Bonera it means it can cost us a goal. But that applies to every defender, such as Mexes, who can be a total liability too. But you don't have a go at him when he has a game-costing stinker?

With Bonera it's a case of his pace letting him down. He's one of the most respected players at the Club - with him being named as one of the players the Ultras actually respected a number of months ago.

That said he absolutely should never play LB. I'm at a loss as to that one, but I am not horrified when he's in central defence, because, pace aside, he's really not that bad. He's particularly strong in the air and he's impressive like Zapata for last-ditch blocks.

My point is why does Bonera having a nightmare match bother you more than any other defender, goalie, midfielder or attacker having one?

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 01:21 AM

LB. Maybe if Abate will get injured and he'll have enough trust in Armero it will change for a while, but overall I'm pretty sure Pippo gonna play Abate and DS on flanks in most games. He won't do a Seedorf on them.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 07:27 AM

Nah, Pippo obviously sees Abate as a the starting RB so that means DS on the left.

You know, I go to other Milan forums and they want DS on the right, and I'm like; do these people actually have eyes?? Even during the same game where he starts out on the right and then shifted to the left you can see a very clear improvement in how he plays. For me, when he's on the right, he looks like the kid that he is, unsure, a bit awkward and hesitant. On the left he's just transformed into this top player that looks like he's been doing it for years.


Mexes has never had a game where he's cost us 2 or even 3 goals in a single match, neither has Zapata (although he did have many stinkers last season), nor Abbiati, that's what I mean when I say a Bonera nightmare. Remember the Udine and Sassuolo games?

I personally am completely against him starting at CB, he's too much of a liability there not to mention he's lost whatever pace he ever had which makes him even more problematic, especially when you play him next to a slow CB (Mexes/Alex). And I really don't see how he's all that good in the air, I agree about the last-ditch tackles but in the air he's a bit of a liability imo. I remember against Celtic he was getting beaten for every aerial ball by the human mop that is Samaras.

Imo, Bonera should be nothing more than a last resort at CB. We have much better players than him for that position, so unless there's a major injury problem, he shouldn't really be getting any minutes in that area.

However, I've always thought he's done well a RB and I don't have any problem with him being the direct alternative to Abate so that we don't have to displace DS from the left should Abate be injured/suspended

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 06:26 PM

Sky reports that Torres won't even be on the bench tonight as he sprained his ankle yesterday.

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Sep 14 2014, 06:42 PM

Bummer...

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Sep 14 2014, 06:43 PM

I guess we'll be seeing Bonaventura - Menez - Honda then... Interesting top 3.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 06:43 PM

Lopez; Abate, Alex, Bonera ©, De Sciglio; Poli, De Jong, Muntari; Honda, Menez, Bonaventura.

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Sep 14 2014, 06:45 PM

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Sep 14 2014, 06:45 PM

I seriously don't get starting Bonera...

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 06:48 PM

bench: Abbiati, Agazzi, Albertazzi, Rami, Zapata, Armero, Essien, Van Ginkel, Saponara, Niang, Pazzini.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 14 2014, 06:50 PM

In all honesty, we should stick to Bonaventura. These abbreviations and nicknames are very stupid.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 14 2014, 06:50 PM

I'm pretty sure he will. He'll be our captain tonight and I'm fine with it.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 07:02 PM

Bummer about Torres.

Posted by: Ry4n Sep 14 2014, 07:37 PM

boomer

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 07:42 PM

Imagine having to write "BONAVENTURA!!" if he were to score. Just too long

Bonera and Muntari... When will we be rid off these players forever?

So sad about Torres, was really excited to see him play tonight. Hopefully he'll be ready for Juve.

What's with all the ankle sprains anyway? First SES now Torres

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 07:44 PM

Let's do this!!

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 07:52 PM

Look at where Bonera was on that, very lucky not to concede

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:03 PM

Our midfield is just so sterile with these players

Bonaventura very obviously not a winger imo

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 08:06 PM

Alex should have scored there.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:06 PM

So close! If only Alex hit that cleanly!

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:08 PM

Oh!! Bonaventura should have probably scored there. Clear header

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 08:08 PM

What a poor header. Another great chance.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 08:10 PM

YES!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:10 PM

JAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKK

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:11 PM

Great move from Menez and Honda to set that up

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 08:11 PM

Good finish

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 08:11 PM

THAT'S HOW YOU START YOUR MILAN CAREER!!!

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 08:12 PM

Damn

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:13 PM

Cassano...

I knew that f@cker would score on us!

So lazy in defence. Who the f@ck was supposed to be marking him, Bonera or DS?

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 08:13 PM

Poor defence.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 08:13 PM

Terrible defending. Muntari watching.

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 08:15 PM

him and bonera making first 11 ...wonder what they do in training

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 08:16 PM

Muntari so far has been inexistent. Bring MvG!

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:22 PM

HONDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 08:22 PM

HONDA!!!!

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 08:22 PM

HONDA!!!!

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 08:22 PM

what a goal what a cross

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:23 PM

Abate! Assist No. 2!

Renew his f@cking contract!!!

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 08:24 PM

torres injured?

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:25 PM

Sprained his ankle yesterday. Hopefully he'll be ready for Juve

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 08:27 PM

Alex and Zapata played very well together last week. Don't get why Pippo changed that tonight. We need consistency there.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 08:28 PM

Guys, any streams? The one I had died.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:29 PM

http://www.wiziwig.tv/competition.php?part=sports&discipline=football

Check there x-off

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:30 PM

Penalty!!!!

Menez is an awesome diver!!

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:30 PM

Should have been a red there if he deemed a foul. Clear through on goal

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 08:30 PM

MENEZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 08:30 PM

yea but this was a pk..

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:30 PM

MENEZZZ!!!!!!

HT

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:31 PM

Well yeah he did grab him and then push him but the fall was also a bit of a dive imo

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Sep 14 2014, 08:33 PM

3-1 HT

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Sep 14 2014, 08:33 PM

+1

Still a penalty... but yes Menez made the best of it.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:34 PM

I have to say, I was impressed by Bonaventura, but the position he's playing in is very clearly not something he's used to playing. I think he'd do very well in midfield

Honda having another seriously impressive game. His work rate is just amazing to see, plus he brings in so much technical quality to the team with his passing.

Abate was awesome as well

Bonera and Muntari the only blemishes, as expected. Bonera being horribly out of position on that goal, WTF was he doing? Muntari doing his usual fruitless lazy @ss jogging

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 08:34 PM

Missed the last ten minutes cos my connection sucks!

Thanks for the link, han.

And yay, 3-1!!!

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 08:37 PM

Yeah, I agree. The thing is that Pippo plays a very conservative line-up, always giving more attention to cover and stability than attack. In a normal world, Bonaventura and Honda would be played in midfield, and we'd play three proper forwards rather than this 4-5-1 mish-mash. But hey, we're winning, so can't complain.

Posted by: William405 Sep 14 2014, 08:39 PM

Forzaa Milannn!! Abate and Honda were awesome...so was Menez. Not so bothered by Muntari today honestly. The goal was just a lapse of concentration after we scored, nothing more.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:40 PM

Too true brother!!

I'm interested to see how he plays it in the second half, would like to see MvG come in instead of Muntari, just for the sake of getting him off the pitch so I don't have to see his lazy @ss for another 45 minutes

I have to admit I was worried coming into this game, because so far we've seen a very counter attacking type of approach, so I was worried to see what would happen if we had to take the game to the opposition, but we've been fluid and quick in the final third and have been able to get in behind their defence multiple times which was great to see

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:43 PM

We shouldn't be having those lapses imo. It was such a lazy period in the half, Bonera went totally out of position. This is my biggest issue with him. so many mistakes. You just can't have that in your defence if you want to do something noteworthy in a season. I'm really hoping Pippo goes for either Zapata, Rami or Mexes against Juve. We can't afford to have Bonera in there against the likes of Tevez, etc.

Oh and totally agree about Abate and Honda, they've seemed to have formed a very solid understanding on that right wing.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 08:53 PM

****

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:53 PM

2-3...

Again Bonera losing his man

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 08:54 PM

wow defending

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Sep 14 2014, 08:54 PM

Captain Bonera... He's so good!

Posted by: KillerMax Sep 14 2014, 08:55 PM

OMG BONERA F@CK YOU GET THE F@CK OUT OF HERE F@CK F@CK F@CK YOU!!

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 08:55 PM

With Bonera there, Parma can be optimistic.

Posted by: KillerMax Sep 14 2014, 08:55 PM

The f@cking wanker is carrying on Kaladze's legacy... F@CK!

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:56 PM

This is the type of nightmarish Bonera performance I was talking about. It's practically a right of passage with him

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 08:57 PM

Abate!! So close!!!

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:00 PM

Bonera sent off! What a total idiot!

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 09:00 PM

shot bonera

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:00 PM

Bring on Rami or Zapata! And don't play this guy again this season

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Sep 14 2014, 09:01 PM

Captain Bonera... ladies & gentlemen!

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 09:01 PM

Thank you, now f*ck off!

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 09:01 PM

That was so fucking expected! It's on Pippo for playing him, never should have done it and now will learn the hard way.

**** **** ****!!!

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:02 PM

De Jong Yellow, moved out of the wall too early

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:03 PM

Every coach has to go through this it seems. None of them learn from each other's mistakes it seems

Rami coming on as well as Zapata, Alex has some sort of issue

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 09:04 PM

alex injured

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Sep 14 2014, 09:04 PM

Why the fv<k did we just waste a sub on Alex?

...is he tired or injured?

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Sep 14 2014, 09:05 PM

Ahh.. okay

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 09:05 PM

injured it seems.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:05 PM

Abate with the armband btw. I think this is his first time wearing it

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 09:10 PM

DE JONG IS THE KING!!!!!

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:10 PM

DE JONG!!!!!!


F@CK YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 09:11 PM

F@CK YOU CASSANO!!

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:11 PM

What a beast!!

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 09:11 PM

wonderful run

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Sep 14 2014, 09:11 PM

NIGEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:13 PM

Galliani needs to get on renewing Abate's and De Jong's contracts ASAP! If we lose either one of them on a free next season I'll be f@cking p!ssed off!!

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:15 PM

3-4

FFS!!!

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 09:15 PM

our defence is pathatic

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 09:15 PM

You gotta be fucking kidding me with that defence

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:15 PM

Unmarked on a corner FFS! Some inexcusable defending today!

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:16 PM

Just do what you have to do to get the 3 points and let's move on.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:17 PM

OFF THE POST! Menez

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 09:17 PM

post....

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 09:19 PM

red for parma

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Sep 14 2014, 09:19 PM

Parma down to 10.

78min.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:19 PM

Felipe off!!

Back on equal grounds

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:21 PM

MENEZZZZZZZZ

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 09:21 PM

what a goal

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 09:21 PM

WHAT A GOAL!!!

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Sep 14 2014, 09:21 PM

Que GOLASO Menez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:21 PM

Super smart on that one!

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 09:21 PM

back heel i think

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:22 PM

Yep, just clipped it with his heel

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 09:22 PM

Menez is the MVP of the game hands down.

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 09:24 PM

he was everwhere

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:27 PM

Niang for Menez

Standing ovation!

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 09:31 PM

WTF

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 09:31 PM

great....

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:31 PM

WTF happened there??

DS... Terrible back pass, just too relaxed...

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 09:32 PM

lot of youtube stuff going om

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 09:33 PM

6 mins

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:33 PM

Pippo about to have a coronary after that one.

Lopez injured as well it seems because of that ridiculous pass!

I just don't get why they keep doing the constant back pass! Just clear it FFS!!

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:39 PM

FT!!!

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Sep 14 2014, 09:39 PM

3 points but what drama

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 09:40 PM

7 minutes? That was way too much of ST.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:43 PM

The defending was just shocking!

Bonera was a one man wrecking ball on his own defensive wall, DS... So lazy and relaxed on that own goal, and probably has ended up injuring Lopez seriously as he seems to have pulled a muscle

Still 6 points, from the same fixtures that resulted in 1 single point last season

Pippo needs to work on that defending though, all goals could have easily been avoided. First order of business is to black list Bonera from ever playing at CB again in a Milan shirt, that should fix 50% of the issues we had tonight

Posted by: KillerMax Sep 14 2014, 09:43 PM

This game had everything. Everything.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 09:44 PM

I'm still wired after watching that, just relentless.

Posted by: William405 Sep 14 2014, 09:46 PM

THIS MATCH FUCKED UP MY HEART FOR GOOD.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 09:49 PM

Wow guys. I missed about half of the game cos my connection sucks more than Bonera, but I still caught all the goals and most important moments. How can you play like this? This wasn't a drama, this was a frigging comedy! This was "Sassuolo 4-3 Milan" level of defending. We're so lucky Parma suck themselves, cos we would have never been able to pull 5 goals against any other side.

I think this game perfectly demonstrates that we can't play an all-muscle midfield. Defense is not our forte, therefore we need possession. We need to keep the ball circulating and press their players, not sit back and let the opposition do the attacking, because this is what happens. We get clumsy and they score as they please.

Pippo, if you have learned anything from your experience as a coach so far, please don't make the same mistakes against Juventus. Enough with Muntari, enough with Bonera, enough with such a pragmatic and conservative approach. Be more aggressive. And give a good yelling to those freaking players of yours, defending worse than a Sunday league team for goodness's sake!

[/rant]

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 09:52 PM

Only two games but still an awesome sight:

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 09:53 PM

I prefer Juve and Roma's "0" in A than our grotesque "5".

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 09:55 PM

It will change next week

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 14 2014, 09:55 PM

Pretty much echo all of this, including stream issues!

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 09:59 PM

Seems like we had the same frustrating night.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 10:01 PM

If Pippo played Alex - Zapata from the start it would have been a completely different story. It's not all on Bonera but having him there fucking things up is a major difference.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 10:04 PM

Dear Lord!

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 10:06 PM

TBH, Alex doesn't convince me that much. He's too slow and clumsy. I'd rather have Zapata-Mexes or Zapata-Rami.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 14 2014, 10:09 PM

Inzaghi's Milan broke two records already:
- First time since 1968 Milan score 8 goals in any trailing two games.
- First time Milan win at Parma with 5 goals.


BIG Inzaghi!

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 10:10 PM

I think he's smart (helping the other CB a lot) and very good in the air, which is key for us. But the big thing is consistency - we gotta pick a pair (without Bonera whatsoever, of course) and run with it. You can't change CB's every game.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 10:12 PM

BTW, it was so great to see Cassono making a huge mistake and losing the ball to Ne Jong in our 4th goal. Hope he won't sleep much tonight because of it.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 10:14 PM

Posted by: KillerMax Sep 14 2014, 10:17 PM

What can I say really? Crazy game... But I was entertained as hell!

Bonaventura had a great debut. He really worked hard and that shot leading to his goal was very well placed. I really am curious if we can expect something like this from him consistently or was this guy just over-excited for his first game?

I thought Abate did great work once again. I thought Honda worked really well too. I think Nigel de Jong is the truth! And I have a nickname for Menez. Menez the Menace. The guy is a true menace to the opposing team and tonight he was without a doubt man of the match. I want Bonera gone! Get the hell out of this team you terrible terrible player!

Lopez: 5
Abate: 7.5
Alex: 7
Bonera: 2
De Sciglio: 5
De Jong: 8.5
Poli: 5.5
Muntari: 5
Bonaventura: 7.5
Honda: 7.5
Menez: 9

Inzaghi: 5

Posted by: Zed.D Sep 14 2014, 10:19 PM

What a game.

Posted by: KillerMax Sep 14 2014, 10:21 PM

BTW, can someone please tell me why was Felipe red carded? I couldn't even tell if he touched Menez in that challenge...

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 10:21 PM

http://youtu.be/owqZ-7s2m-Y

Posted by: KillerMax Sep 14 2014, 10:22 PM

Yes! But will Inzaghi change anything? I don't he will until he starts losing...

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 10:22 PM

Yeah, it was harsh but Menez knows how to sell it.

Posted by: KillerMax Sep 14 2014, 10:22 PM

This is gonna be good...

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 10:23 PM

I wasn't that impressed by Bonaventura. He wasn't bad. He's a very tidy and smart player, but he lacks that something extra that makes you a great player. Plus he's just not suited as winger, like Honda.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 10:26 PM

Agree completely with your rant, although, with regards to the defending, I'm not really as p!ssed off as you are. the mistakes were all individual ones aside from the total brain fart on the corner where no one marked Lucarelli. That was the only complete defensive failure when talking about the defence as a whole. Not marking someone on a corner is just inexcusable. That being side we did just have to change our entire CB pairing just before so it could somewhat be excused a little.

The other goals were just ridiculous individual errors. With DS it was just too relaxed and nonchalant the way he bounced the ball back to Lopez at such an awkward angle and height. I am 100% sure that he'll keep this embarrassment in mind for future reference and will learn from it.

The other 2 goals were just Bonera at his best. That Sassuolo game you're referencing was also a Bonera masterpiece. He's the common thread when we concede by such massive margins. The 4-4 against Udine also comes to mind as a typical Bonera showcase.


When was the last time we had the same point tally by week 2? 05/06?


Yeah, the 5 is just ridiculous, but this was just a freakish game. I doubt we'll see anything like it in a while. That being said, we have also scored 8 goals so far, this after having 2 of our most sterile seasons in years. So we're obviously doing something right on one end of the pitch


Agreed





I think we need Alex because of his aerial dominance, we're so much better on set-pieces and crosses with him on the pitch. All Pippo has to do is just pair him up with any of the other 3 good CBs we have and it should be okay. The Bonera inclusion is most likely for sentimental reasons but Pippo has learned the hard way that there's no room for sentiment in football.

And agree about the continuity issue. I don't get why coaches feel the need to "thinker" with the defence. Just play your best 4 players there and don't mess around with it. Allegri did it every season, Seedorf as well and now Pippo is doing it. CB is probably the most fundamental partnership you can have in football. Just don't mess about with it because it's asking for trouble, especially when you introduce such a liability as Bonera into the mix

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 10:40 PM

^ Regardless of how we conceded the goals, the defending as a whole was grotesque. We're too lenient and too spaced-out. Even with extra cover from Poli, De Jong and Muntari we still look bad. That's why we have to play another kind of game. De Jong and Poli/MvG are more than enough as ball winners. We also need a playmaker in midfield, as well as utilize the wings more properly. With SES and Torres back, I want to see them and Menez in the front trio, full stop!

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 10:52 PM

Before entering the pitch...

Abate: "Come on guys, let's go!"
Cassano: "Hey, Abate, shut up for f*ck's sake."

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=703892833036615&set=vb.637073356385230&type=2&theater

He really said it! What an ignorant.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 14 2014, 10:53 PM

As I said in the poll thread, we don't have many options there to replace the Muntatri-Poli-de Jong trio. It's easy to shout "van Ginkel" "van Ginkel" like Han when he invented "play Merkel". But we don't know a thing about the Dutchman. Who knows, maybe he isn't ready or on level with us? Yes, we need to bring him in, but I have faith in Pippo.

Other then Ginkel, there ain't many options to make a real change. Poli must do more in terms of offensive play and building.


Well, I don't get the whole Bonera thing. He brings some stability with his experience, yet he's a huge liability.


Loved it, loved it so so much


I don't buy the sentimental card one bit. This is professional football for God sake, I cannot believe both Seedorf and Inzaghi are sentimental with a player who wasn't even first team back when they played. And why not be sentimental with Abbiati as well?

No. There's got to be a logical reason why we play Bonera with Leonardo, Allegri, Seedorf and Inzaghi over other options. I think Bonera has immense knowledge and he's a typical Italian defender in Apolloni/Gamberini level - meaning he can play incredible matches, and he can make incredible mistakes. Apart from that, he's experienced and I think he is a good commander. He has it in him to be captain, but well, his mistakes ruin everything.

I'd play him occasionally, especially on the fullback. I think he's a solid additional defender to solidify our result once we take the lead. But I get Pippo who's trying to find a leader in him.

And that brings me to one additional question. I think we should reopen the captain-problem. With Monto out and not living up to expectations, I think it's time we find another, stable, present, performing captain.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 14 2014, 10:56 PM

New poll is http://www.milanfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8440

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 11:00 PM

Van Ginkel is good, trust me. You have every right to be dubious, but time will tell. But even so, we have Honda and Bonaventura who can play as CM. Yet Pippo decides to go for the defensive approach. That's my main issue here. We should advocate a more aggressive approach.

This is what big teams do. We're not Cagliari. Look at Inter, for example. They play both Hernanes and Kovacic in central midfield. Roma play Pjanic. Juve play Pirlo, even though all their mids are very offensive-minded. Instead, we play De Jong, Poli and Muntari in midfield, and Bonaventura and Honda in attack. Nope, just nope.



At least you recognize that he shouldn't be played.

Posted by: Danny Sep 14 2014, 11:05 PM

Holy God. Early contender for match of the season. Covering that chaos in one post would be absolutely impossible, so I won't even try.

I'll just go straight for ratings (which I'm sure at least one of them will offend someone )

Lopez: 5 Extremely poor/average. Have to say he's had a inauspicious start to his Milan career. A 'decent' save V Lazio plus the penalty stop, but that aside I am not impressed by him at all. He doesn't look any better than Abbiati at this point. He doesn't command his box, rarely comes for crosses, and hasn't yet made, penalty aside, one genuinely great save. The OG was one of the biggest tragi-comedies I've ever seen.

Abate: 8 Utterly superb. His nickname is the Locomotive and this match was easy to see why. Caused constant issues down Parma's left.

Alex: 6 Not his best night, clearly wasn't at ease with his partner.

Bonera: 4 I admit it, he sucks now. He's played a few times in pre-season and he just keeps on getting caught. His red card was harsh, because neither of them were necessarily yellows, especially the first where there was no contact, but his defensive solidity was completely absent tonight.

DS: 6 He was ok, not sensational, but had some weak moments as well as his better ones. Incredibly unfortunate OG.

Muntari: 7 Actually had a good match today - some good tackling and vital interceptions, and mostly used the ball well.

De Jong: 7 Guilty of giving the ball away more than usual but otherwise the usual rock in DM and his goal was just insane.

Poli: 6 Work work work. He gives exactly the same every match, never varies.

Honda: 6 Took his goal so very well but I thought he was otherwise quiet. His set pieces were generally weak and I can't fathom why he always takes them.

Bonaventura: 5 Thought he was poor. Lack of composure at all times, had no effect on the attack and spent most of the match deeper than he was supposed to be. Think he lacks confidence as a forward/winger. Took his goal well enough though.

Menez: 9 But for his horrendous inability to stay on his feet I'd have given him 10. I whined about his constant diving v Lazio, and tonight I whine again. He's a borderline cheat. And YET. F*ck me he was outstanding. He controlled the entire game, everything went through him, and in terms of influence he proved me well wrong. He was stellar. His goal was magical, and he took his penalty brilliantly. Pity he dived for the 80th time to get it.

Pippo: 5 Sorry Pippo, why the f*ck did you break up a brilliant defensive unit for the sake of playing Bonera again? Zaps was outstanding V Lazio - I can only think he was jetlagged from Colombian duty. In which case play Rami. I knew Bonera would start but couldn't fathom him being in the middle given the defenders we have ahead of him. Bonera being there is why the backline was frail - he was 'out of harm's way' v Lazio but tonight in the thick of it he was disruptive.

I'm done defending Bonera, too many errors. If Han can admit he has changed his mind on Niang, I can do the same on Bonera. But at least Pippo is now playing Abate RB & MDS LB.

Posted by: Danny Sep 14 2014, 11:06 PM

The lack of leaders out there is probably the reason Bonera gets played. We basically have none, and that includes Abbiati and Montolivo. There isn't a captain anywhere in this team, no one to lead the others. Hence Bonera is picked.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 11:12 PM

+1

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 11:26 PM

What a total ****!! Glad he made the mistake on De Jong's goal. What a complete tool!


We do have options though. Both Honda and Bonaventura are more than capable of taking over Muntari's spot. Van Ginkel for me is still not a sure thing, I agree, Pippo has to give him the chance to take that position off of Poli.

But atm, our midfield is just one note, it's like listening to music on a consistent annoying whine that won't change. Muntari simply cannot be in there. Also, by starting with him, Pippo is also limiting himself in terms of when it comes time to closing the match out, because he has no one in midfield to do that aside from Essien and I'd rather he just didn't go there. Instead, like today, no one could really come in to close out the midfield, Muntari could be that guy for us. While we start games taking a more offensive approach in midfield that would allow us to take the game to the opposition and control possession much better than we currently do. And by doing that it's a major form of defence as well as most of the pressure we're currently seeing on our defence would be lessened because we won't be constantly losing the ball because of clumsy passes by incapable players.

And Merkel? I don't think I was ever a huge backer of his. I think you have me confused with someone else.


I totally buy it.

There is no single fathomable reason as to why he should take the place of any one of our other CBs who didn't start today aside from Zaccardo.

Leadership? I saw no leadership skills there tonight, he's just not a leader or captain material. With Abbiati it's different. We have a top class keeper now that you simply cannot leave on the bench just to play a fading Abbiati. With the defence it's not as clear cut and you can easily excuse the choice as a technical decision.

And yes those coaches have all played him, and have regretted doing so later on. Allegri regretted that decision twice over, Seedorf also regretted that decision and now Pippo as well, although Pippo is the only one who has managed to come out of a Bonera nightmare show with all 3 points. They probably do see him as someone with experience and exemplary behaviour, which is why they rely on him at first, but it's only a matter of a few games before he lets them down. I just don't buy the fact that he does something extra special in training to "convince" them that he's the better choice over the others.

As for the captaincy issue, I'd personally just give it to Abate, a youth team product who always give his 110% on the pitch. I'd hand over the armband to him along with a brand spanking new deal for a good few more years. The guy deserves it


Agreed

However, if Honda isn't moved into the midfield, I don't know where we can fit everyone in.

Honda and Menez are just unplayable atm. You can't drop either one of them, that being said, if SES is fit he's also definitely in. While Torres would bring another major dynamic to the side that could make us even more dangerous, so I'm at a loss as to what Pippo will do. Imo all 4 need to be on the pitch and the best way to do that is to just push Honda back and accommodate the other 3 in attack

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 11:27 PM

But Bonera isn't really a leader either. I don't see any captain qualities in him at all. He's not vocal on the pitch, doesn't try to spur his team mates on and certainly isn't someone to lead a defensive line either.

Posted by: Danny Sep 14 2014, 11:40 PM

Question of seniority and always has been at Milan.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 11:51 PM

I think that excuse got thrown out of the window the moment they gave it to Monto and guys like Muntari wore the armband.

For me it's Abate and De Jong who are truly fit to be captains

Posted by: Danny Sep 15 2014, 12:49 AM

If you're critical of Bonera re: vocal and leadership then Abate isn't fit either. He can't lead any better than anyone else, and frankly I would rather not put that burden on him, likewise De Jong.

There's no one in our whole squad I'd feel at ease with the captaincy.

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Sep 15 2014, 03:44 AM

+1


Yup


It might not have been an ideal pass back, but I honestly think more of the blame falls with Lopez on this one.
Lopez had a horrible game as well. At times I wasn't sure who was in the post, Abiati or him.





Indeed it did!


Spot on...


Indeed it was


That he did.

Posted by: Danny Sep 15 2014, 06:27 AM

Can't you guys just admit Menez, for all his footballing brilliance, is a diving cheat?

There's one thing about 'taking advantage' of a foul, another to just fall when there's just no contact.

I didn't like Balotelli falling like a lead balloon, and wunder football from Menez and a win isn't going to make me like Menez for doing it either.

If that behaviour was against us, we'd be up in arms - it's exactly the cr*p we hated Barca doing for all these years.

If he could remove it from his game, I'd absolutely love him. As it is, I admire his outstanding ability and loathe his inability to avoid diving.

One guy on Twitter tonight called him Tom Daley.

Posted by: Ry4n Sep 15 2014, 07:16 AM

Football what a crazy game !

Posted by: Ry4n Sep 15 2014, 07:16 AM

he dived allot tonight.

Penalty and the red card was the most funny ones the ref was pretty **** to not see it as a dive.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 15 2014, 07:55 AM

Actually with Abate I think he can more than do it. Leading the defensive line is something he can't do but he can be a leader figure in the team. It's all about leading by example and no one does that better than either Abate or De Jong in our squad. I'd give it to Abate before De Jong because Abate is a product of the Milan system, if we're going by seniority, Abate has been part of the Milan set-up far longer than Bonera has, a couple years on loan does not change that

And if not these 2 then who? You seriously want Bonera on the pitch just so that he can wear the armband? I'd rather just mount a stick near the goal post and hang the armband off it than watch him start another game at CB this season.

The best thing out of this game aside from the points is the fact that he's suspended for the Juve game, because something tells me that Pippo would have gone for him again, even after the mistakes.


Yes, he's a diver. But you have to admit he knows how to sell it.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 15 2014, 08:07 AM

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 15 2014, 08:19 AM

Hah. I don't know about diving, but if you think he dived on the penalty, you clearly weren't paying much attention. It was foul, end of. Every report after the game said so, too.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 15 2014, 10:36 AM

Indeed.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 15 2014, 10:38 AM

Well, like I said some months ago, I'd try MDS to be honest. I know it's extra pressure on a young player, but we need someone who both represents Milan and has years to come with us.

Posted by: Danny Sep 15 2014, 10:57 AM

It was a foul. You're right. Problem is he dived after the foul finished. He fell on his own. That's called diving, X.

If you try to trip someone up, but they run for 2 strides then fall, that's a dive.

If you believe otherwise then you're just seeing what you want to see.

Posted by: Danny Sep 15 2014, 10:59 AM

When I said no one I meant it. No one in the entire squad is a captain. Any armband given is by default because we don't have a leader. So, if not these two, who? No one, sadly.



Oh, that's o-f*ckin'-k then! Guess Barca were just selling it well all this time. And it wasn't being whined about on here AT ALL!

PS: just because he's clever at it makes it no less dishonest. Cannot believe ANYONE is standing up for him, what the hell happened to the dignified honest Milan supporter?!

Posted by: Danny Sep 15 2014, 11:00 AM

Nah, apparently we weren't watching clearly enough because every report said it was a foul EL OH EL!

Posted by: acid911 Sep 15 2014, 11:51 AM

First place for one whole month, suckers. Galliani style!

Posted by: acid911 Sep 15 2014, 11:51 AM

My sentiments exactly. Who know, the extra responsibility might motivate him to elevate his game to another level. Giving it to The Scig will at least solve this whole captaincy problem, where the armband is rotated every other match. Not sure the management would be up for it, though.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 15 2014, 12:06 PM

Maybe he tripped because he was fouled earlier. It does happen. Your balance is affected. But yeah, he does look like he's diving there. Still, it was a just penalty.

Posted by: Ry4n Sep 15 2014, 12:18 PM

Anyone have the highlights

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/15/jeremy-menez-goal-ac-milan-parma_n_5820596.html Love this goal keep on watching and watching it , the celebrations too haha

Posted by: Ry4n Sep 15 2014, 12:23 PM

haha

Posted by: Danny Sep 15 2014, 12:29 PM

MDS is a future captain. Do it now and you'll ruin him. This season is critical in his development. He had a poor one last year which dented his confidence, and now he's finally getting a run on the left - imperative he builds up confidence, his body, grows both physically and psychologically then maybe in 5 years he's ready to lead us.

Right now I couldn't pick anyone I'd rather have the armband less than he. For his own good.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 15 2014, 12:29 PM

Posted by: Danny Sep 15 2014, 12:32 PM

If you look at the laws of the game, I never said it wasn't a penalty. But he definitely dived, and good on you for admitting that now.

It's the horrible fine line between honesty and justice. An honest player would have stayed on his feet and gone for goal - he decided to go down having been fouled, a delayed reaction where he could have stayed up and scored anyway. His actions achieved justice, but but those actions were not just.

Ultimately you could argue that won us the two points.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 15 2014, 01:40 PM

I understand, and I am taking into account his vulnerable position right now. Sadly, we haven't any other option, someone that can take the armband and make it his. But my personal hopes aside (that DS will improve after wearing the armband), I'm fairly certain the Milan management will not make him the captain.

Not for another 5 years, if he stays that long, that is. Other options, none are worthy.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 15 2014, 01:41 PM

Not many like these around now, mate. They only made these guys in bulk until the 90s.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 15 2014, 02:51 PM

Agreed. I respect your opinion, Acid, but personally I feel giving the armband to MDS right now would be madness. In all honesty, I see no better candidate than De Jong. The guy has personality, gives his 101% in every game, is not a dirty player and has the respect of all his teammates and fans.



Diving is part of the game. You got players who dive whenever they feel an inch of a contact, or those who dive without any contact at all. Jeremy was fouled enough to make him lose balance. In such cases the consequent dive becomes irrelevant in my opinion.

I didn't see him dive that much for the rest of the game TBH, but I only watched around 60% of the game, so maybe he was diving during those moments I wasn't watching.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 15 2014, 03:11 PM

Hey, I knew full well that was the romantic in me speaking. Never in a million years can I see DS getting the armband right now, and well, if Milan were that sort of a gambling club, we'd not actually be in a much better state to begin with. A stable team, a stable coach, a more improved DS, a gelled squad. A few more wins, too.

And as for De Jong, yeah, he deserves it on the merit alone that the guy gives 100% in each game. Or 101%, like you said. Even though I still haven't forgiven him for that karate kick that he hit Alonso with in the world cup. Other than that, the guy has earned it all in his time here.

Will have to think really hard to name a better DM these days.

Posted by: Danny Sep 15 2014, 03:39 PM

I would reluctantly settle on De Jong if I had a gun to my head. But I feel like he thrives as part of the team and not as the leader of it. He's respected by all, but I'm not sure he'd feel the burden of captaincy to be a good thing. Look how it absolutely wrecked Montolivo - he couldn't cope with being captain of Milan and he'd already had experience of the role at Viola. De Jong hasn't even had THAT experience.

Nah, I just feel like there's no one stand out, just some weak candidates each of whom has a major flaw or two regarding the idea of being captain.

Posted by: Danny Sep 15 2014, 03:41 PM

He's definitely top 5 on earth. Alonso is arguably up there, if you wish to class him as one, and I probably would. Busquets too. But De Jong is definitely the best in that slot in Serie A by quite a margin.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 15 2014, 04:13 PM

Exactly, only a few contenders, all very close to each other up top. De Jong wins the battle for playing like a champion every time, and playing in the toughest league in the world. My only concern is how long will be able to keep him in the Milan shirt.

If he stays another year or two, then he'll retire here. Or leave for one final stint in some rich league.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 15 2014, 04:30 PM

Yep. He cares if he knows how to sell it, a dive is a dive and the guy is a cheat. I wonder if we'll find no problems with it when it happens to us?

Posted by: han2503 Sep 15 2014, 05:29 PM

I think Monto was just off form last season, nothing to do with the armband imo. At first I thought it effected him negatively as well. But now looking back I just think he wasn't in the kind of condition that he was in during his first season with us. Some might call it a classic second season dip.

We'll see how he does when he returns, although I can't really see him holding down a regular spot this season since it takes major time to completely recover from a break and we have a lot more options in midfield this season as well

I'd still give it to Abate at this point


We'd whine and get over it. Simply because everyone is a bit of a cheat in football, everyone dives and play acts. If we can gain from it, who cares, if we get burned by it, we complain and move on. Not like the first time it would have happened

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 16 2014, 04:59 AM

I cant relate to the new players, let alone identify a good DM.

But DJ is a solid player, he has impressed me since the first day in our shirt. Whatever he did in the past is history, what matters is today and today he is a mature, experienced and model professional. Someone who deserves to be singled out. But the captain's arm band should be sacred in these parts, Bonera and Abbiati are the rightful heirs of the arm band if you ask me.

But of course the coach makes his own assessments.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 16 2014, 08:33 AM

It's sacred but you want to give it to Bonera or Abbiati? Bonera has been a perennial bench warmer in this team for as long as he's been with us, plus he's just one huge liability on the pitch, good behaviour doesn't or at least shouldn't automatically mean you get the armband, you need to have leadership qualities, you need to be an example for your team mates both on and off the pitch and you need to be able to be that voice on the pitch that either spurs your team mates on or calm things down when needed. Bonera is none of those things.

Abbiati on the other hand is far from an exemplary person, a self proclaimed fascist for me isn't an ideal captain.

For me atm, looking at our squad it has to be; Abate, De Jong and DS in that order

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Sep 16 2014, 09:51 PM

Yes and it is called my opinion

You don't rate them, I find that they are the few that I can relate to.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 16 2014, 10:07 PM

You only feel that way because they've been here the longest and were (sort of) part of our more successful yesteryears. But aside from that, they've never been symbols of Milan or a definition of what we stand for.

I agree there's few players on our roster that I can relate to or really like as well, Abate and DS are surely that for me, same as De Jong.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 16 2014, 10:25 PM

+1, especially the bolded part.