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Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Jul 20 2014, 03:43 PM

All La Liga talk in here...

Posted by: Danny Jul 22 2014, 03:47 PM

Rodriguez to Madrid for £65M. El Clasico will be pretty extraordinary next season.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Jul 22 2014, 04:09 PM

Saw that on twitter: Ronaldo, Bale & James cost Real Madrid around €265M. Ajax have spent €232M on transfers since their founding in 1900.

Uefa can add all the restrictions in the world, the big clubs will still find a way to spend crazy sums.

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 22 2014, 05:35 PM

Ridiculous.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 22 2014, 05:42 PM

And Silvio claims we're still the most successful club and wants us to "get back to winning"

http://www.football-italia.net/52469/berlusconi-milan-most-successful

Yeah right! Madrid are spending 88m on a single player and we have to ask Rami to lower his wages so we can pay 4.5m to Valencia! At this point it's so sad that I can only laugh at the predicament we're in

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 22 2014, 06:05 PM

The mafioso!

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 22 2014, 06:40 PM

It's embarrassing.

We're the most successful club in the World! (If you count a bunch of irrelevant trophies and remove ones that actually mean something.)

Posted by: Danny Jul 22 2014, 08:02 PM

Sorry guys but Milan are not the most successful club, Rangers are. Only one European trophy, yes, but no one has more domestic silverware than Rangers.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 22 2014, 08:08 PM

I've always thought that the International vs domestic debate is a bit pointless. A European trophy for example if far more prestigious.

For example, I would never trade Juve's domestic success with our European success

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 22 2014, 08:22 PM

They don't count domestic trophies in this regard.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 22 2014, 08:35 PM

Yeah which makes it all the more ridiculous. Madrid are clearly the most successful club.

32 La Liga titles > what any other club has done domestically. Sorry Danny, but 32 La Liga titles are worth more than double that in Scottish League titles. Then 10 European Cups > everyone else.

Any club claiming to be more successful than Madrid has an awful lot of delusion, which isn't surprising when Berlusconi and Galliani are in charge.

Posted by: William405 Jul 22 2014, 09:36 PM

Well, yeah obviously..Madrid are the most successful club. We're right there at second though.So, I don't think they're that delusional.

Posted by: Danny Jul 22 2014, 09:49 PM

Are they? All I hear about La Liga is it's a two horse race. Indeed, someone on here once described it as a glorified SPL.

Wouldn't they be more valuable if the league was as competitive as the EPL?

Being reasonable, yes, your point ranks true, but you get my argument surely.

Posted by: Danny Jul 22 2014, 09:51 PM

Just as well, Milan are borderline failures in Italy given the club's history. 18 leagues is not good enough, especially given we only became a 'European team' with prioty there when Berlusconi bought us.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Jul 23 2014, 01:37 PM

Berlusconi's words are not directed to us fans, its more towards the image of the club.

Personally speaking, history has no significance on how the team plays or wins; hence Berlusconi, as usual, was portraying the club as 'intangibly' valuable. Which he rightfully can do, as that is what he invested in to begin with.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Jul 23 2014, 01:58 PM

Yes. Maybe I'm biased, but I saw this more of a "Remember who we are!" call to arms rather than the past glory sort of thing.

It's Galliani who does the past glory thing with the stay serene, bullshite.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jul 25 2014, 02:15 PM

Suarez ban ends the day before the Clasico. It's almost as if Barca are favoured.

In any case, without any training and match practice, since he's banned from football activities, he shouldnt be playing anyway.

Posted by: Danny Jul 25 2014, 10:25 PM

Really really hope this is droll sarcasm.

Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Aug 2 2014, 06:31 PM

Suarez has a hearing on the 8th August, they surely won't reduce the ban.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 2 2014, 08:04 PM

Don't be so sure

Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Aug 2 2014, 08:53 PM

Now that he's with Barca I'm honestly not.

Posted by: Danny Aug 2 2014, 09:42 PM

It was too harsh in the first place. Prepostorous, Orwellian dictatorship.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 2 2014, 10:08 PM

No it wasn't, it was pretty light considering this is the THIRD time he's done this, next time (and there WILL be a next time) he should be banned for at the least half of a season. He was even luckier this time around because most of the ban has been served through holidays

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 2 2014, 10:37 PM

There's no ban too harsh for repeat offender. Doing something wrong? You get punished. Doing it a second time? You're an idiot and deserve what you get. Do it a 3rd? Your time should be up. Suarez has proven he can basically do what he wants, now his club allegiance will probably allow him to do it with minimal ban too.

Posted by: Danny Aug 3 2014, 10:59 AM

So, if you committed an offence at your place of work, and they told you you could not engage in ANY work-related activities for 4 months except doing the job in your leisure in your spare time, you'd accept that as just?

That your work was actually telling you how to live your life for 4 months? I can accept a ban from playing but ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING FOOTBALL RELATED INCLUDING PHOTOSHOOTS?!

How utterly dare they!

F*ck off! Usual FIFA corruption, nothing more.

PS Kurt, this was a FIFA ban, the Barca paranoia is Uefa. FIFA couldn't give a sh*t about Barca. Tbh neither could Uefa.

Posted by: William405 Aug 3 2014, 11:23 AM

I'd expect to be in jail for 4 month..if I go around biting people...or in other places you know.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 3 2014, 12:02 PM

As William here rightly mentioned, if I go around biting people at my work place I'm sure I'd be arrested for ASSAULT. Do you really think I feel sorry for him not being able to pose his famous teeth around in photo-shoots after what he did THREE times now? F@ck no! He deserves worse.

Posted by: Danny Aug 3 2014, 12:18 PM

Yer *rse! What FIFA have done is outwith their jurisdiction. They're not law, they're football governance. How dare they say 'you are banned from all football-related activity including anything above kicking the ball about with your friends'.

That's Orwellian, pure and simple.

PS this 'jail' line doesn't work. See last night? When Benatia threw a missile at Pepe? Every inch as much assault as a mild bite is. See those awful 'tackles' which are more assault than challenge and get a red card? Every inch as much 'jail' material as a bite or a missile.

'if it happened on the street I'd be in jail' blah blah.

Er no, sadly on the pitch the rules are different. You get red cards, not jail.

So if you think Suarez' bite was jail material, then every malicious or violent act on the pitch, including some woeful tackles from our own Milan players, are also jail material.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 3 2014, 01:03 PM

A tackle is within the laws of the game, if it's bad you get punished for it through a red card. A bite is above and beyond, it's probably the worst form or aggression. You simply cannot excuse it, especially when it's not the first time this happened.

Fifa don't want Suarez doing anything football related, including advertisements because he's a bad example and a terrible advert for the sport, he's a diver, a cheat and a biter on top of all that. I'm not saying other players don't dive but Suarez just hits the trifecta, just like Pepe does. Players like them should not get any concessions or leeway.

And imo, for what he did, Suarez should be punished for longer, maybe not the football related activities part, I don't really care about that, but he should be banned for longer from playing official games, otherwise if he continues to simply get a slap on the wrist each time he will continue to act in this manner.

And yes the rules in football change, I don't go around tackling people at work, because it's not part of my job description, but it is part of the job description for a player, biting is not

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 3 2014, 02:20 PM

If this was the 3rd time I'd committed the offence, I really wouldn't have a leg to stand on and thats my biggest issue here.

I agree that some, but very few, tackles have intent and/or are dangerous. But you look at some horrific injuries in football, most of them are because the tackle was a split second late, which can not be helped in a game of such speed.

Biting people is completely alien, it's not a split second decision to go and do that. To do it 3 times? A 4 month ban is ridiculous, even moreso when half of that ban is when no football is even played. A tackle is at least an attempt to get to the ball. A bite on a player completely away from play really is nothing like a tackle at all.

An offender should be punished, he was. Repeat offenders need to be made a massive example out of. If FIFA don't ban him for life when he does this again, it just proves because of his name he can get away with anything.

Posted by: Danny Aug 3 2014, 02:46 PM

Then I guess Roy Keane should have been out the game for the repeat number of intentional leg-breakers he committed in his career too?

I accept the biting thing is appalling, but it's no more 'dangerous' than a leg-breaker. It just looks ridiculous and ugly.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 3 2014, 03:09 PM

The difference with tackles is that they aren't as black and white as biting. I've seen plenty of leg breaking challenges, some of them shouldn't have even been free kicks. It's just bone colliding at speed, this stuff can happen.

Posted by: Danny Aug 3 2014, 03:42 PM

No, but some are absolutely intentional. What about violent conduct? Elbows? Intentional attacks?

Are they acceptable compared with biting?

I accept the alien nature of the act, but then Gary Lineker once did a sh*t on the pitch and wasn't punished for it...

Posted by: han2503 Aug 3 2014, 03:58 PM

To be fair to the guy he had the runners

Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Aug 3 2014, 08:38 PM

He's still getting paid right? In which case this does happen for regular people in the UK with gardening leave.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 3 2014, 11:26 PM

Yep.

I think FIFA have every right to ban him from arenas they license. One of my dads former co-workers was firedfrom Royal Mail and is no longer allowed to set foot on their premises. Suarez must be laughing.

Posted by: Danny Aug 3 2014, 11:41 PM

Ah, so he's banned from posting a letter too?

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 3 2014, 11:57 PM

Why would he be banned from posting a letter? He's just not allowed on the premises. It's the same as Suarez, he can play football, just not at any FIFA sanctioned arena.

Unlike any normal person, Suarez is still being paid, can still play football with friends, family, etc. can still watch football, can still play FIFA. I wish I could be banned from work and still get to do all this stuff.

Posted by: Danny Aug 4 2014, 10:58 AM

He cannot take part in any football related activity. ANYTHING. The only thing he can do is play football privately. He can't even train at any club's private training facility. He can't take part in autograph sessions, can't spend time with his team mates while they're on club business, WHATEVER that is. That's draconian. And outwith what FIFA are really entitled to enforce on a person.



Eh, no, because it was FIFA with the ban, not his club. Like your parent company (Procter & Gamble) banning you but your employer (Pampers) still pays you.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 4 2014, 02:15 PM

Why are they? All clubs ultimately come under FIFA, they're stopping him, for a period, having him anything to do with their clubs and the clubs facilities.

I think what some people are really missing is that this is the 3rd time he's done such a crazy thing. If this was a first offence, I would be completely with you on this. But a 3rd? If he was banned from football for life, he'd have no leg to stand on. If you can't get things right on a 2nd and 3rd chance, you dont deserve a 4th. At that point you're taking a piss.

Posted by: Danny Aug 4 2014, 02:18 PM

Like I say, Roy Keane did more than 3 intentional legbreak style tackles. I see absolutely no difference. In fact he committed worse IMO.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 4 2014, 02:32 PM

and I would agree with you, but most of Keane's tackles were done to a player with the ball. If we talk about a court of law situation, it would be difficult for people to prove that Keane's intent was to harm the player, his defence would be that he was just a little late on a challenge. A number of completely fair challenges have ended with a player having a severe injury.

Suarez has no defence though. There is clear intent in all of his bites. He can't claim he was going for the ball or similar.

If bad fouls are worse than biting, then Suarez is good at that too. The first one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF4kSWnY2Z8 is one of the worst attempts to end a players career I've ever seen.

His biting is just the tip of the iceberg really.

Posted by: Danny Aug 4 2014, 02:49 PM

Oh I know he's no angel, but my point is he's being castrated for his crimes in a way others aren't for theirs.

Look at Totti at the world cup. 3 match ban for the worst thing a player can do to another.

But Suarez got 7 for the Ajax bite incident. His first crime.

Point is he gets more punished than anyone else despite his crimes not being any worse or better.

I am biased in that I do really like the guy and rate him as the world's best right now, but it doesn't alter that the punishment he receives is always harsher. Look at the Hunt knee that nearly killed Cech. The-then Reading winger didn't even receive a yellow card never mind a match ban. Many woeful tackles which break legs get off far less severe than Suarez first offence.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 4 2014, 03:10 PM

It's mostly because it's hard to be proven if there's any intent at all. Most tackles are grey, biting is clearly very black and white. With it being his 3rd time, the ban needed to be big, because quite clearly he isn't learning, is he?

Posted by: Danny Aug 4 2014, 03:40 PM

Totti? Song's blatant elbow? Both 3 match bans. Suarez' first bite offence, 7.



I agree, he needs help. And I accept the ban had to be big, but not totalitarian. It's also thoroughly inconsistent. He is banned from ALL FOOTBALL-RELATED ACTIVITY ™ (except having a medical for a team, & signing for them).

Can someone explain to me the logic behind the ban where he's banned from the world except bits of it?

Posted by: han2503 Aug 4 2014, 05:13 PM

Great video kurt, the man is indefensible and despicable on so many levels. And even worse, he dives on all those bad tackles as well to make it look like he's the victim, just like what he did after he bit Chiellini and pretended to have been hit in the mouth.

Hair pulling, kicking a player on the ground, eye poking, high leg challenges intended to hurt the opposing player, awful and nasty two footed lunges on players, tackles that could have easily ended much worse than they did and much more. And on top of that he's a diver and occasional biter

Posted by: Danny Aug 4 2014, 09:33 PM

Meanwhile serial clugger Chiellini is a saint...

Posted by: han2503 Aug 4 2014, 09:55 PM

I've always been a huge detractor of Chiellini as well, players like him, Suarez, Pepe, et al are no good for the sport

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 8 2014, 05:03 PM

What the heck happened to Bale? He looks like a wrestler.

Posted by: Danny Aug 8 2014, 10:10 PM

Real did to Bale what we tried to do to Pato. And failed horribly. Bale has the body to handle it though.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 8 2014, 11:15 PM

Yeah, plus he's much older than Pato was back then.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 9 2014, 06:16 PM

Is the whole "muscle weighs more than fat" thing a myth? Out of interest I googled his weight as I thought it must be difficult having to run with all that mass of muscle. Apparently he's 40 pounds lighter than me! I'm far from musclar, but I'm also in no way fat.

Can't get my head around that one.

Posted by: TriniKing_CE Aug 9 2014, 06:43 PM

This always confused me as well!

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Aug 9 2014, 08:58 PM

Think its the body fat as a percentage of overall weight. For example I have 8.4% body fat last time i did a checkup. That is because my food is paleo and i train 5 times a week weights/cardio/boxing (mix them up for fun).

These atheletes, each has a different motabolism level and bone structure. So one could weight more than the other but have lower body fat than other. Makes sense?

Then muscles only grow to a certain extent, after that its growth hormones. Unlike the growth hormones they give to mr olympia (ie arnold), rather controlled. Player cones to mind Messi.

Frankly speaking Bale seems normal to me. He just has become fitter.

Posted by: dst Aug 10 2014, 05:23 PM

Why do you follow a paleo diet?

Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Aug 11 2014, 12:27 PM

Low body fat%, indicates more definition. You don't have to be big to appear completely ripped to be honest. He doesn't look like he's got much bigger, just lost a bit of weight. Plus is that weight even up to date?

And obviously he's a fair bit shorter than you.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 11 2014, 01:26 PM

So Barça finally decided to sign CBs, though with the money they have they could have done better.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 11 2014, 02:09 PM

Arsenal must be laughing. £15m for a player who hasn't had a good game in years?

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Aug 11 2014, 04:03 PM

Read somewhere that Arsenal has paid around 34.6 percent of their stadium bills thanks to transfer fees obtained from Barca.

Would be interesting if they threw Man City into the mix as well.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 11 2014, 04:19 PM

That's hilarious.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 12 2014, 11:36 PM

I had no idea the UEFA Super Cup was tonight. 2-0 for Madrid.

Looks like Carlo went with 4-2-3-1 with Modric and Kroos in the double pivot. It'll be interesting to see if it'll work for the entirety of the season.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 13 2014, 04:05 AM

What options do they have for the "2"? You'd imagine any 2 from Kroos, Modric and Alonso would be a bit lightweight to go a whole season without problems.

EDIT: Just saw the highlights and wow, what a cross for the first goal. Impossible to defend.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 13 2014, 01:32 PM

There's Khedira too, who's more suited to the role than Kroos.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 13 2014, 01:56 PM

And Alonso? I dunno, Real have a lot of good players out there. Just not the right defenders.

Btw James looked completely detached from the rest of the team and on a different level. Guess we'll have to wait for him and see if he adapts.

Posted by: acid911 Aug 13 2014, 02:10 PM

Yeah, he was mentioned in the original Kurt post.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Aug 13 2014, 02:11 PM

Real have a lot of games. I don't think gametime will be a problem in any way.

I did think of the midfield pivot being too lightweight, but surprisingly they seemed to deal well with it once they settled down.

It's Carlo after all. The same dude who played 3 number 10s behind 2 strikers, and now he's gone one better.

Will be interesting to watch Madrid. I'm curious how they will deal with a team like Bayern or Chelsea though. Especially without a destroyer.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 13 2014, 02:54 PM

For some reason I thought they'd sold him.

Posted by: Danny Aug 13 2014, 03:58 PM

Verge of. With Kroos' arrival and Modric around it makes him and Di Maria expendable. If they can find a buyer for them they'll leave.

Shame for Di Maria, really world class player but seems Carlo's done with him.

Glad he's also done with Lopez

Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Aug 13 2014, 06:20 PM

Yep great cross from Bale, about the only thing he did all night. Ronaldo ran the show last night. James still getting used to things but that's to be expected, going to be hard for him to shine as much with Madrid as he did last month.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 13 2014, 07:21 PM

Yep, especially when you consider he was one of Madrid's best players last season.

Posted by: Danny Aug 13 2014, 09:40 PM

Harsh on Bale, thought he had a very good night.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 13 2014, 11:24 PM

Was pretty much the only reason they won the CL Final IMO. Nobody else really showed up for Madrid.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Aug 14 2014, 06:46 PM

So Suarez's punishment won't be shortened but he'll be allowed to train.

Posted by: X-Offender Aug 14 2014, 06:54 PM

Sounds good.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 14 2014, 07:40 PM

I think that's fair enough. There's no way his ban should've been reduced, but I can understand the training thing. Good decision.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Aug 14 2014, 08:50 PM

@dst .. Before Paleo it was almost fried food, the yummy stuff, lots of manufactured, pre-vooked, canned to last an extended period of time. Then I started training regularly, and became quite addicted to the endorphins. Except my energy levels were low. Paleo fixed that, its like what our great granddads had to eat or drink (ie no cola or fried). Its a new way of life.

Granted it is a pain! Eating dry and boring food, i do have three cheat meals per week. Makes me guilty enough to go back to eating healthy, paleo.

You like that Carlo ingenuity ha Abi, yeah I'm reminiscing just typing this reply.

Bayern are a well drilled side with strong cohesion and one superstar in the team; Bayern München. Madrid are all about Galactico's'. That said, Carlo is the right coach for them, given time could iron out a blueprint to success. 16 days till the market closes, Carlo is at a club where if he asks for Obama, Madrid would sign him. Hence if this is the team he is taking into next season, its not bad considering its 10x the firepower he had in 2007

Benzema, keep an eye out on him. Zidane esque plays and movements

Posted by: Danny Aug 14 2014, 10:24 PM

Oh but he committed a crime, he should be banned from the premises? I mean if WE committed a crime we'd be barred from everywhere...

Posted by: han2503 Aug 15 2014, 08:19 AM

Don't get your point Danny. Isn't this what you wanted? You were completely against his ban from training and other football related activities, that's been lifted, but upholding the match ban is the correct decision

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Aug 15 2014, 08:53 AM

han woke up and forgot to wear his sarcasm detector. Tsk tsk. What business do you have on the internet han? Go back to the real world. Come back when you're ready.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 15 2014, 09:03 AM

I did in fact just wake up jack

And Danny's sarcasm is usually laced with other undertones so you can't always take it at face value.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Aug 19 2014, 10:34 AM

Moved to Serie A thread

Posted by: Jack Bauer Aug 24 2014, 03:00 AM

No one saw the spanish supercopa? Impressive performance by Atletico. Kept all those Real's money bags on 1 goal in 180 minutes and won the cup. Seems like they replaced players who left pretty well, especially with Mandzukic and Griezmann.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Aug 24 2014, 03:17 AM

I think a Madrid treble will happen this season.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Aug 24 2014, 03:20 AM

I don't think so, they won't win CL back to back imo. Also in Spain it looks like a 3 horse race once again where anything can happen.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 24 2014, 08:48 AM

Yeah saw it, they were impressive, but I just cannot stomach the sight of Simeone, what a disgusting character. I wonder what he tells his players to not get sent off: "Try not the get sent off before me guys"

Posted by: acid911 Aug 24 2014, 09:41 AM

+∞ Delighted!

Posted by: milanbuf88 Aug 24 2014, 10:00 AM

As much as I dislike him personally I can't help but respect the passion he instills in his players. I can only hope Pippo gets everyone playing as hard for him. I don't like Simone but god damn do his players bleed for him.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Aug 24 2014, 10:03 AM

Yeah, but Simeone's behavior was painful to watch. Zero professionalism, pure ignorance and arrogance.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 24 2014, 10:26 AM

Yes, he's a great coach but he's just disgusting to watch, and I seriously cannot stomach watching him. The sarcastic clapping, the shouting at the ref for every minor incident that goes against his side, etc. Just cannot stand it

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Aug 24 2014, 10:34 AM

Simone, against all the odds, has done a remarkable job!

Regardless of our personal opinion about him, he lead his team to a CL final and a La Liga trophy last season. Against all the odds. Think Pippo has a deep hunger to prove himself, he has the odds stacked against him, lets see if he can do-it.

Posted by: han2503 Aug 24 2014, 07:22 PM

As much as I harped about Suarez and applauded his ban, I'm also sort of sad that he can't play today as I'm VERY curious to see how he'll fit into this Barca side

Posted by: Jack Bauer Aug 31 2014, 11:22 PM

Real had a 2-0 goal lead but lost 4-2 in Sociedad

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 1 2014, 12:00 AM

Real's midfield: Kroos, Modric and Isco.

Nope, I don't think that's gonna work for Carlo. It was a bad decision selling Di Maria and Alonso. At least they should have signed a quality holding mid. Maybe Khedira can play that role, otherwise things might get nasty. Their defense is very lightweight, too.

Posted by: Danny Sep 1 2014, 12:31 AM

It's hard to support Real right now when they just go around throwing stupid £ at everyone to get whoever they want.

So it's really rather amusing to watch their moneybags get gubbed in Sociedad.

Once again the Ancelotti syndrome of having a world class squad but not getting the full amount out of it seems to be happening again.

Posted by: acid911 Sep 1 2014, 01:56 AM

Posted by: KillerMax Sep 1 2014, 02:18 AM

Am I the only one rooting for Carlo?

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 1 2014, 07:47 AM

Nope I root for him too. Actually I feel sorry for him. He's just about created a brilliant team with a fixed spine, and those crazy bosses, just basically ripped it all out and handed him a fresh team with little less than a week to go for the season. Ridiculous.

I don't even know why he stayed on. He should have walked.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 1 2014, 12:15 PM

I like Carlo, I like Madrid. But there's very little to no chance he's going to win La Liga. A combination of him (mostly) being "poor" in the league and the higher-ups at Madrid can't help but mess with things.

Khedira needs to start for them. Selling Alonso is okay since they bought in Kroos, it's not like he was a mobile ball winner anyway. But you can't start with Kroos, Isco and Modric in a 3.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 1 2014, 02:39 PM

Was Khedira fit? I must admit I was surprised by that one. But then they were really unthreatened for the first half an hour, and could have scored a couple more. I thought his talk after the game was interesting. Sounded like he's going to do something drastic.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 1 2014, 03:57 PM

Khedria needs to play there imo, they need more balance. It's funny they spend millions upon millions on flashy and marketable players but none on that terrible defence with Varane being the only one who's a top quality CB/defender.

Pepe, Marcelo, Carvahal and Ramos are all defensive liabilities.


In this case Carlo simply has nothing to do with it. You really think he didn't want to keep Di Maria and Alonso? Perez made those decisions, Carlo as always has been diplomatic and graceful throughout the summer and kept his mouth shut about how he really feels and answered media questions about how Di Maria and Alonso have basically been pushed out

The balance of the team has been destroyed, it was already in a precarious position due to all the attacking players in the same 11 that Carlo had to fit in, but he managed it, just like he did at Milan, but at Milan he had Rino and a legendary defensive 4, at Real that's just not the case, I'm sure he wanted a great CB to partner Varane and a proper FB but he got James and Kroos instead which imo were both just flashy signing that weren't really needed

I can bet good money right now that Khedira isn't being played not because Carlo doesn't want to include him but because he's under pressure to not only play all the flashy players they already had but to include the new signings as well, which doesn't leave any space for a non-flashy player

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 1 2014, 06:14 PM

They have to play James Rodriguez, and they're going to make a Robinho out of him I fear.

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 13 2014, 09:20 PM

I wonder if they will regret letting Alonso go as much as the Makalele departure years ago. Another great loss today

Posted by: acid911 Sep 13 2014, 09:27 PM

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 13 2014, 09:30 PM

I really didn't understand James' position tonight. Too lightweight midfield, much confusion upfront. Carlo should switch back to 4-3-3, play Khedira as anchor and bench James.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 13 2014, 10:32 PM

Playing without any kind of ball winner is total madness.

Posted by: Danny Sep 13 2014, 10:40 PM

James is turning into a disaster at Real, which is a Real shame (pun intended) - but quite simply they didn't need him.

They bought him to make a signing for the sake of it.

He doesn't work in this system as it's not built around him. He did best for Colombia as they relied on him solely in Falcao's absence. At club level he wasn't as good at Monaco either because Falcao was the star till the injury. Only 9 goals in 30 appearances at Stade Louis II.

He sparkled at the world cup, and has faded in a system which doesn't suit him.

Meanwhile the team that is Atletico just keeps on coping. I briefly got seduced by their loss of players into believing MAYBE they couldn't sustain it, but Simeone is just that good. They are as strong as they were last season.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 13 2014, 11:10 PM

Well they did make some smart signings to counter the losses imo. But yeah, Simeone is the perfect example of how important a coach is to the team

And agreed on Real, James is a ghost at Real so far, their system is just completely unbalanced though, it's not just him that's struggling, even Ronaldo looked a bit flat footed today

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 13 2014, 11:22 PM

9 in 30 isn't terrible for a midfielder really.

Posted by: Danny Sep 13 2014, 11:32 PM

Indeed. Pity he's a striker.

Posted by: Danny Sep 13 2014, 11:34 PM

They've strengthened an area which didn't need it, and neglected the spine. Letting Alonso go was beyond ridiculous, and the total lack of improvements in that woeful defence indicates the continuing obsession with getting the shiniest strikers and forwards and failing to make a real team of it.

They were on the right track last season, but they've gone backwards with the window they had.

Posted by: Danny Sep 13 2014, 11:36 PM

PS by 'striker' I mean that's where he played for Colombia. And was electric. He's been getting played out of position everywhere else. I don't see him as a winger/AM at all.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 13 2014, 11:42 PM

Sorry, was talking about Atletico in that first paragraph, not Real, should have been more clear on that. I totally disagree with Real's entire transfer strategy

Posted by: Danny Sep 14 2014, 12:34 AM

I know you were, my reply was to the second part hence mentioning Alonso, for example

Real's transfer strategy has been a shambles. They've taken a work in progress which had epic potential and turned it into a grotesque caricature of what they think the fans wanted.

Let go two of their best players and totally imbalanced the team.

Absurd.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 14 2014, 05:38 AM

He played the #10 at Monaco and at the WC. Telo/Martinez played as the striker for Colombia. In fact I think both of them played against Brazil and James played wide left rather than the #10.

As for Madrid's transfer policy. They've still got one of the best squads in World football. Blaming Perez for them only winning 2 out of 5 games is laughable, but Carlo is seemingly immune to blame in these parts.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 07:36 AM

Having a flashy squad with top names doesn't translate to greatness on the pitch.

I don't see Carlo as being at fault here because he has his hands tied. He has to play the new signings (Kroos and James) that's not even an option, and by doing so he's lost the entire balance of the team. Carlo lost 2 of the most crucial elements of his squad this summer, just because they didn't sell enough shirts and he had no say in it, because if he did, I'm sure he wouldn't have allowed it to happen.

He's been forced to change formation to fit all the golacticos into the team and has to play with no clear defensively inclined player in midfield. All because of the transfer policy that Perez employs.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 10:22 AM

Di Maria's sale was Perez's doing, everyone knows that. But Carlo should have been more persistent with Xabi Alonso, or at least he should have asked for a direct replacement, otherwise he should play Khedira as anchor. Instead, he's opting for this very strange line-up, which completely lacks balance among other things. Even when he was at Milan and had the various Pirlo, Seedorf, Rui Costa, Kaká etc. he still always played a ball-winning mid, be it Rino, Ambro or Brocchi.

But going back to De Maria, he should have never been sold. Yes, there were conflicts between him and the club in regards to his demands, but a compromise should have been reached for the benefit of the team. Perez just went with the easy solution and sold him. Even Kroos, regardless of how talented he is, cannot be considered an adequate replacement because he lacks work rate and speed. Don't get me even started on James...

Posted by: Danny Sep 14 2014, 11:46 AM

Transfer policy stinks though. I am with you on Carlo's previous not making the most of the resources he has, but at the same time they've gone top heavy on forwards and totally neglected the defence. It's like having the best bullets money can buy, but only a rusty knackered gun to put them in.

Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Sep 14 2014, 11:53 AM

Really can't see Cristiano there for too much longer either now to be honest.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 01:52 PM

Hmm, you really think he'll go back to United? Can't imagine him in another EPL club tbh

I personally can't wait until he's 34/35 and we sign him

Posted by: milanbuf88 Sep 14 2014, 03:03 PM

I think given time Carlo can get Real playing better. I don't know that they will be as good as last year since they had fantastic balance last year but they will certainly be playing better than now in a months time. Really he should be sitting Kroos and James until they get more practice with the team. I'm sure Perez has demanded they start from the beginning. They are both good players but not direct replacements in style for Alonso and Di Maria. The team will have to adjust and play differently.

Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Sep 14 2014, 03:19 PM

Agree, think it would be between them & PSG (due to £££) if he were to move. United would be the obvious choice if they wanted to put the money down though they have far more pressing issues.

Just seems very much similar to what went down when he wanted to leave United now. There's a fair chance imo at this stage that he will be on the move in the summer.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 14 2014, 05:54 PM

As X-Off said, Khedira should be playing. Even if he is forced to play certain players, there's still room for a DM.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 06:01 PM

If they want him to play both Kroos and James I really can't see where Khedira can fit in... I wouldn't bench Modric to play Kroos personally speaking

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 14 2014, 06:42 PM

You bench Modric to play Khedira. If he's refusing to bench Modric and has to play the others, then he's creating problems for himself.

I don't think it's true he has to play certain players anyways. In the Super Cup James was on the bench in the first game, Ronaldo on the bench the second.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 07:04 PM

Modric is the best player they have in midfield, I would never bench him.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 14 2014, 07:35 PM

If he's the only one that can be benched for Khedira, then you have to. Unless you don't want to keep your job very long. The idea he has to play certain players is false anyway, Ancelotti is stubborn and we all know this from experience.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 10:33 PM

Carlo can also become very pragmatic on his day as well, which is why I refuse to believe that he's come to the conclusion to not play any sort of ball winner in his midfield without some external pressure.

Also isn't Khedira injured atm?

Posted by: Jack Bauer Sep 14 2014, 10:36 PM

Yes, he's sidelined for six weeks.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 10:43 PM

Then they're f*cked.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 14 2014, 10:56 PM

Bench Modrić for Khedira. No way. Carlo has to find a way to play both (when available). But well, I'm sorry for him. He found the ideal mix last season and now the management decided to tamper with it and well...

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 14 2014, 11:05 PM

I prefer the second, but only if James steps up. So far he's been horrible.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 14 2014, 11:54 PM

Kroos is just so slow and slightly lazy imo, doesn't really do a lot of defensive covering. He's just not suited for a 4-2-3-1. I agree that he should only be used in a midfield 3 not a double pivot.

And no way would Carlo ever drop Modric just to accomodate either Kroos or James, he's vital for his system.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 15 2014, 03:29 AM

I'd do this personally. I've never rated Benzema that highly and Madrid fans don't seem to like him, getting whistles and boos at the derby game this weekend.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 15 2014, 06:57 AM

Guys, guys,

The problem is that Carlo has not DM at the moment. Khedira is out injured, and I think so is Illaramendi. Either that or Illaramendi is really crap.

So he has on paper, two players for one position - that of DM ,but both are out injured. We better hide De Jong in January. People are going to come calling.

Posted by: han2503 Sep 15 2014, 08:17 AM

We need to renew his contract ASAP! Shouldn't have even let it run down this long.

I hope this doesn't become another typical Galliani mistake. He just cannot let his contract linger as is until the summer. Same goes with Abate

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 15 2014, 08:21 AM

Illarramendi is more of a CM than DM, like Modric and Kroos. They need a ball winner in there. Even frigging Barça have one.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 15 2014, 09:07 AM

Yeah its probably the most crucial position in modern day football to be honest.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 20 2014, 05:58 PM

Deportivo 2-8 Real

WTF?!

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 20 2014, 07:40 PM

Primera, Primera...

Posted by: han2503 Sep 20 2014, 10:21 PM

Best league in the world!!!!

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 23 2014, 09:54 PM

Madrid have scored 18 goals in their last three games!

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Sep 23 2014, 10:06 PM

Again - Primera, Primera...

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 23 2014, 10:15 PM

Yeah, I know, but it's still very impressive.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 23 2014, 10:35 PM

9 goals in 4 games for Ronaldo. At this point there's no debate for 1st, it's just whether Messi is holding on for 2nd.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 23 2014, 10:39 PM

You're loving it, aren't you?

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 24 2014, 07:08 AM

I like Messi's new role. He's now become more of your classic #10. I still dislike Barca though. I always have. Ever since we thrashed them with Capello, I've looked down upon them and their holier than thou attitude. Football was not invented when Johann Cryuff kicked a ball you punks, get off your high horse!

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 24 2014, 10:02 AM

I don't think it's a new role. He's playing in the same position, he's just had a very bad 9 or 10 months by his standards.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 24 2014, 10:23 AM

Same position, but I'm pretty sure it's a different role. He's not that false 9 role. More of a CAM.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 24 2014, 11:08 AM

Yeah, I think so too. They're probably getting ready for Suarez's return, who will most definitely cover the CF position.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 24 2014, 03:24 PM

I can't see Barca changing from the 4-3-3 with Messi in the middle. Suarez will play on the right.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Sep 24 2014, 03:32 PM

He will be in the middle, but a bit deeper. I think the triangle now has inverted from Messi being the spear to Messi being the thrust. They probably don't have a choice. Both Xavi and Iniesta are losing their legs gradually so they will need Leo to drop deep more.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 24 2014, 03:43 PM

They should play 4-3-2-1 with Messi and Neymar having free roles, but Neymar starting on the center-left and Messi on the center-right. Iniesta-Rakitic-Busquetes is a very good and solid midfield to back that up.

Posted by: Milan Are Brilliant Sep 24 2014, 06:33 PM

For me Cristiano needs to play a lot better domestically, whilst Messi wasn't the greatest and it's still a joke he was voted player of the tournament in the World Cup he was FAR more effective than CR7.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 24 2014, 09:10 PM

I think they will play the same as last year pretty much. Neymar and Suarez playing slightly wide of centre, Messi just behind them centrally as a false 9. Messi has had too much success in the middle for them to move him anywhere else now. If he goes wide, he'll be easier to pick up defensively.

Posted by: X-Offender Sep 24 2014, 09:33 PM

I think Barça want to change. Their winning formula of the past is not working anymore, Xavi is at the end of his career and Messi has been poor for the past 12 months or so. You can't keep playing the same way forever and expect to win.

They've shown this by signing two CBs and a defensive mid like Rakitic. They want to bring stability and a change of style. Obviously they'll rely on their tiki-taka system, but not in the same mold as before. And with Suarez you just have to use him at full potential. Playing him wide would be a waste.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Sep 25 2014, 06:35 AM

Suarez didn't really play centrally for Liverpool. It was a diamond 4-4-2, but more like a 4-2-3-1 with Suarez playing a bit further right, Coutinho was wider left than a regular diamond midfield position with Henderson and Gerrard more like holding players with Sterling off the front.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 5 2014, 11:29 PM

Jeez, Madrid are like a goal machine. Five goals per game has become the new standard now.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 5 2014, 11:31 PM

Shall I say it once more?

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 6 2014, 12:06 AM

Primera, Primera...

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 6 2014, 12:40 AM

From the EPL, La Liga, Serie A and Bundesliga only Bayern, Chelsea, Man City, Barca and Valencia have scored more goals than Ronaldo.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 6 2014, 01:37 AM

I remember when scoring 25 goals in the league was a great success a few years back. Ever since Messi and Ronaldo took the scene, 30 goals is like the bare minimum. But then again, Barça and Madrid are so strong and La Liga is so weak, so in a way it makes some sense.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 6 2014, 09:48 AM

But you don't see those kind of numbers in any other league. So 25 in Serie A, EPL or Bundesliga is still considered a great achievement and will most likely make you the top scorer.

La Liga is just ridiculous and skews numbers by awful margins. If Ronaldo or Messi were to change leagues they wouldn't get those kind of numbers

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 6 2014, 11:35 AM

Exactly. The fact that Barça and Madrid are goals machines per se helps them even more.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 6 2014, 02:32 PM

They wouldn't get the crazy numbers in the 40s, I agree. Ronaldo did break the 30 mark in the EPL though. But it is considered such a huge accomplishment to do it like when Toni did it in Serie A. Ronaldo was probably disappointed he "only" got 31 in 30 last season.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 6 2014, 02:44 PM

Barcelona and Madrid have the biggest TV rights in Europe, one of the highest paying sponsors, have a brand that is as universal as "you speak english?", and the classico is a match world-wide audiences anticipate in most cases with more viewers than a CL final.

Let us compare apples to apples, cuz those two teams are a level above the rest of Europe, let alone in their very domicile. Anything they achieve is skewed to the reality or the actual level that La Liga is at.

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 6 2014, 02:48 PM

I think we shouldn't neglect the fact that those two are probably in the two best teams on the planet. To assume they wouldn't score 'anything near' those numbers might be being rash.

Maybe not 30, but a 25 plus return cannot be discounted. Just look at that Madrid firepower with a team being built to service Ronaldo. It's not like either Ronaldo or Messi are not cutting it in Europe where you could argue they are meeting with better opponents than in Primera. I think they are neck and neck to beat Raul's record and become joint top scores in CL.

No. I think we are in a very special period where we are probably looking at two players competing for GOAT status (though I hardly believe such a term exists in any sport which advances through technological inputs/or has rule changes).

It sucks that Milan doesn't and probably will not (for another 10 years) have a player to compete in those stakes but that's that.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 25 2014, 06:17 PM

Suarez with one of the worst performances I've ever seen. Beyond annonymous.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 25 2014, 07:22 PM

They spend that kind of money on one of the best strikers around and play him as a winger...

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 25 2014, 07:36 PM

He's playing the same role as the one he did at Liverpool though. Sturridge played centrally, Suarez was always wider to the right.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 25 2014, 07:42 PM

The blueprint to Madrid's success today was down to Don Carlo, the movement of Madrid today and how they moved the ball from defense to the attack resembled that of Carlo's Milan. Except this team is on steroids

Madrid could very well pin anyone back from a CL title. Game I would like to watch, Chelsea v Madrid and be that a final ohh boy!

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 25 2014, 07:54 PM

Madrid played okay, but ultimately they won because of Barca. Silly penalty to give away, poor marking on corner and then Iniesta giving the ball away to let Madrid break. Barca were at fault for all 3 rather than Madrid's good play IMO. Madrid were pretty wasteful mostly.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 25 2014, 08:05 PM

Didn't see the game, just saw the goals. Madrid's 3rd goal is such a perfect display of the team's skills and spirit. Quick passes and everyone being altruist.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 25 2014, 09:04 PM

It was such a beautiful goal, even Iniesta wanted to get involed.

Posted by: han2503 Oct 25 2014, 09:46 PM

Didn't Liverpool play a diamond last season with Sturridge and Suarez up top? And anyway they played a very fluid front 3 with those 2 plus Sterling, they'd constantly rotate their positions.

Suarez was literally stuck out wide on the right side for most of the game hugging the touch line, I fail to see how that's making good use of him

Still he got the assist in the game which is more than Messi did all game long

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 25 2014, 09:57 PM

On websites it would have them down as a 4-4-2 diamond, but in reality it was more like this.

---------------- Sturridge ---------------
----------------------------- Suarez-----
---------------- Sterling ----------------
------ Coutinho-------------------------
------------------------- Henderson---
--------------- Gerrard-----------------

Was a slightly lob-sided 4-2-3-1 more than it was a 4-4-2 IMO.

He did play wider tonight than he did at Liverpool, but more or less the same kind of role.


Which is why assists are often overrated. Playing a routine ball across the field, then that player cutting inside, beating a man, and scoring from 20 yards isn't really anything to do with the pass.

Posted by: Danny Oct 25 2014, 10:09 PM

Yet another shite performance from Messi in a match which matters. Last time I remember him having a significant impact in a big match was the CL final in 09.

He's the most overrated player on earth.

Not that Ron was brilliant tonight but his moments made a difference.

Best player was Carvajal.

PS: Suarez absolutely drowned.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 25 2014, 10:19 PM

Yeah but he gets 80 penalties a season and scores 40 of them so he must be the best because he scores so much!


Easily. Brilliant performances. Marcelo was good too, which is a rarity.

Posted by: Danny Oct 25 2014, 10:38 PM

Just can't fathom why the world loves Messi so much. He keeps on choking when it matters while Ronaldo doesn't.

Posted by: dst Oct 25 2014, 11:07 PM

On the other hand, I can't fathom why the world hates Messi so much.

Posted by: Danny Oct 25 2014, 11:30 PM

Possibly due to the kudos he's given without actually deserving it.

Ronaldo's done it for Man Utd, Real Madrid and Portugal. Mainly on his own.

While Messi's star has definitely faded in the past 2+ years as Xavi aged and Iniesta went past his best.

Tonight he had Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Suarez and Neymar for support yet did absolutely nothing.

Ronaldo wasn't sparkling but did things on his own, things Messi seems incapable of. Ronaldo ran absolute riot v Liverpool, while Messi did nothing in Paris v PSG or even against Apoel.

Messi has been over rated for too long, relying on a great Barca team - now that Barca has been found out he's been a hell of a lot less effective. While Ronaldo has been outstanding for 5+ years now.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 25 2014, 11:47 PM

Not this argument again!

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 26 2014, 12:40 AM

There are really very few people who even criticise him IMO. When you compare the criticism he and Ronaldo get, his is basically none existent.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 26 2014, 01:46 AM

Whoa, I just realized that Barça had not conceded any goals in eight games until tonight.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 26 2014, 03:47 AM

Records and streaks only exist for Ronaldo to break them.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 26 2014, 02:30 PM

@kurt

Obviously the two teams are massive and have proved it over recent years. Madrid were never going to get an easy win, but then again neither were Barcelona.

I was referring to Madrid's defending, haven't seen them defend and pass the ball starting from defense like that. They usually would knock it forward, rather than play it with short passes. That game plan is what I was referring too.

That said, Barcelona have a distinct style of play and can impose it on any team. Madrid played on Barca's weak points and won, let that be corner kicks or intercepting the ball from Iniesta or the likes.

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 26 2014, 03:08 PM

I haven't following Real that much this season. How does Ancelotti play Modric, Kroos and James (when Bale is also available)? Is it Modric in front of the defense with Kroos and James as CM?

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 03:51 PM

I think it's more of a 4-3-2-1, Isco was playing instead of Bale yesterday as one of the 3 behind Benzema

Posted by: X-Offender Oct 26 2014, 05:09 PM

You mean 4-2-3-1?

Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2014, 06:31 PM

Yep, slip of the finger

Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 27 2014, 08:30 AM

Well, I know I have a bad rep of being a Carlo fanboy, but looking at Madrid- Holy ****. I thought he was a genius for accomodating 3 number 10s in the lineup for Milan, but with Madrid this is insane. I love how the players move the ball forward with so much speed. I think with the exception of Ronaldo and sometimes Kroos/Modric, they rarely keep the ball for more than 1 touch.

That third goal took what? 3 passes!!

The team now attacks and defends in packs...their counter which Mourinho developed has been even more fine tuned, this team is a joy to watch.

Isco is so awesome, I wish we had him.

Just left amazed by how that team is improving. Bayern and Madrid are now carving open a new level of excellence for themselves above the Chelsea's and the PSGs and the Man Citys of the world.

This actually makes us Tier 3!!

Posted by: kurtsimonw Oct 27 2014, 12:03 PM

I keep hearing a lot of talk about the 3rd goal as if it was some wonder goal. It was a pretty easy goal. Iniesta made a huge error and they broke pretty much free inside the Barca half. The initial pass was quite a poor one by Isco I believe it was, too.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 2 2014, 12:44 PM

Barça 0-1 Celta

And now Carlo is first.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 2 2014, 01:46 PM

Only Carlo can throw this away now.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 2 2014, 01:48 PM

Calm down, he's only one point ahead with 28 games left to be played.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 2 2014, 02:16 PM

It was said in jest.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 8 2014, 06:09 PM

Thanks to 2 late goals, Suarez finally wins a game in La Liga. Took him 3 games.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 20 2014, 09:02 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yA9YYvcJYQ

This is how Atletico have achieved so much without having any champions in their team. Simeone might be a d*ck, but he knows how to train and motivate his players.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 20 2014, 09:19 PM

Problem is, such motivation-oriented coaches rarely last long.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 20 2014, 10:07 PM

Generalization is not the right answer. Simeone has all it takes to make it big.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 21 2014, 01:34 AM

Super. Can't wait to see him with Inter...

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 21 2014, 05:07 AM

Might be?

Posted by: han2503 Nov 21 2014, 10:20 AM

Huh, why would you say that? Mourinho is in the same mould imo and he's been around for years now

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 22 2014, 12:24 AM

Mourinho is also a tactical master. He isn't driven like Simeone; such coaches usually burn out quickly but we'll see.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 22 2014, 01:47 AM

Do you have any proof or examples to base this claim?

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 22 2014, 03:04 PM

NT coaches like the Mexican guy, long-time Croatian NT coach Blažević, Hiddink to a degree as well. Then you have people like Otto Rehhagel, Marco Tardelli, etc.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 22 2014, 03:52 PM

Bilic seemed a bit like that as well. Very much a talker. You'd know better than me on that one though.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 22 2014, 04:35 PM

Agreed. Count him in as well.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 15 2014, 09:39 AM

If Ronaldo continues to score at the rate he has been so far in La Liga, by the end of the seas he will have 67 league goals.

Posted by: Danny Dec 15 2014, 04:43 PM

I'd hate Milan to end up like Simeone's Atletico.

2012. 5th. 2013 3rd. 2014. 1st. 2014/2014 - 3rd.

Last 16 of the CL with room to spare, CL final the previous season, with a squad the best of which was sold in the summer.

Managing to challenge at the top again despite losing Costa, Courtous, Luis.

Yes, big problem, and clearly his career is on a downward spiral.

I'd cut off my nuts for Simeone at Milan. World's best coach. By a distance.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 16 2014, 10:40 AM

I think he meant sustained over a period. Finishing 5th and 3rd when you're the 3rd best team in the league isn't an almighty achievement. Winning it and making the CL final, is. So that's 1 great season and a couple of more or less expected ones.

There's also a long way to go to say he's challenging this season. Unless you consider Southampton/West Ham to be challengers in England

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Dec 16 2014, 12:30 PM

Yep, that's about it

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 16 2014, 12:47 PM

I think you guys fail to understand the fact that with those players it's very, very difficult achieving what Simeone did. Except for Courtois and Diego Costa, everyone else they've had have just been average. No world class payers, no exceptional standout individuals, just a bunch of hard-working, dedicated players who Simeone trained so well that not only they give their 100% in every game, but they're also playing better than what their skills allow them to. That's a great coach right there.

Besides, he also won the Europa League in 2012 (along with the UEFA Super Cup) and the Copa del Rey in 2013. There's the consistency you guys want.

Posted by: Danny Dec 16 2014, 04:13 PM

Harsh. When he took over Atletico they weren't the third best team in Spain. In 2010 they were 9th in the league for heavens' sake. Falcao was the difference in Europe and basically won the UEL for them. Simeone's first season he got 5th, then 3rd, then 1st. 3 years of solid progression and for Barca and Real to have spent big and him losing half his best players this summer yet STILL up there in the top 3 says everything for his skills.



Southampton and West Ham didn't win the EPL last season

I take your point but Simeone's stock is only getting bigger. And he's still sustaining his team despite losing a lot of his best players.

Posted by: Danny Dec 16 2014, 04:15 PM

Amen. Truth is his Interista connections make him very unpopular in our support, as does some of his admittedly poor behaviour. But anyone dismissing his coaching credentials is being very short-sighted.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 16 2014, 06:39 PM

That's 2 World class players. Which other clubs not named Barcelona or Madrid have more than 2 World class players in Spain? Fillipo and I have said that he did have a great season (winning the title/CL final) but finishing 3rd and 5th? That wasn't anything special, no other clubs in Spain really have that many good players. Certainly not at the Courtois/Cost/Luis/Koke level.

Posted by: X-Offender Dec 16 2014, 11:52 PM

World class? Those two? Hah, not even close. By all means, they're great, but 'world class' is an entire different category.



Why do you ignore what I said in the rest of my post?

Simeone as Atletico coach:

11/12 - Europa League
12/13 - UEFA Super Cup, Copa del Rey
13/14 - La Liga, Supercopa de España, Champions League runners-up

That, my friend, is impressive.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Dec 17 2014, 03:44 PM

It's good, sure. A much lesser Atletico won the Europa League too and Super Cup isn't a real trophy. Nobody is saying he did a bad job. But as Fillipo and I keep saying. Having a good few years and only 1 great one doesn't make you a great coach.

Posted by: Danny Jan 7 2015, 09:59 PM

Well his latest signing is having a 'mare. No idea why Atleti took Torres back, but it's the Milan Torres out there tonight.

Posted by: William405 Jan 7 2015, 11:13 PM

Sentimental reasons, perhaps. Maybe, even financial? He's selling shirts like crazy.

Posted by: Danny Jan 8 2015, 12:35 AM

Fair point. Why Honda was signed for us.

Posted by: X-Offender Jan 16 2015, 01:14 PM

Mourinho's reaction to Torres scoring two goals against Madrid:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=833008416844692&set=vb.338233632988842&type=2&theater

Posted by: X-Offender Feb 5 2015, 02:40 PM

CR7 makes 30 today. Jeez, time flies...

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Feb 6 2015, 03:45 PM

Read on goal that some Canadian university will be offering a module on CR7

Posted by: X-Offender Feb 6 2015, 04:04 PM

Module? You mean like a course?

Posted by: CrazyMilanFan Feb 6 2015, 07:00 PM

not the whole course, just one optional subject

http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain/2015/02/06/8666992/study-ronaldo-at-university?ICID=TP_HN_HP_RI_1_2

Posted by: X-Offender Feb 6 2015, 08:30 PM

Yeah, that's what I mean by course. Interesting.

Posted by: Danny Feb 7 2015, 07:52 AM

Fail the exam on that one and it'll get Messi.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 Feb 28 2015, 03:35 PM

Braida is targeting our MDS and Marco Verratti for new club Barcelona.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Feb 28 2015, 04:44 PM

He learned from Dugarry onwards, did he

Posted by: han2503 Feb 28 2015, 05:05 PM

I'd only let DS go for serious cash. He's struggled for a long time now, but that does not diminish his natural talent which is still there.

If they don't intend to pay up then we keep him

Posted by: X-Offender Feb 28 2015, 05:26 PM

Yeah, if they pay up good cash I wouldn't mind selling him. He's not a vital part of this team, especially considering how poor he's been for some time now.

Posted by: Danny Feb 28 2015, 11:34 PM

Antonelli has done more since signing than MDS has for 24 months.

It's a sale I'd love to see. Completely lost patience with MDS.

Posted by: acid911 Feb 28 2015, 11:43 PM

Nice.

Posted by: han2503 Feb 28 2015, 11:45 PM

How old is Antonelli? Because if he's in his late 20s which is what I'm assuming then it's not exactly a long term solution

But again, if Barca are willing to offer good money, then we simply have to go for it.

Posted by: X-Offender Feb 28 2015, 11:46 PM

I think he's 28.

Posted by: Danny Mar 1 2015, 12:33 AM

*takes a bow*

Posted by: Danny Mar 1 2015, 12:35 AM

Agree it's not exactly long term but then again how old was Pirlo when Juve signed him? 32?

As long as he can do the job to a good level I'd say we could get a decent 5 years out of him.

What qualifies as 'long term' these days anyway?

Posted by: acid911 Mar 1 2015, 12:52 AM

Just very occasionally sign in on the forums these days, miss so many great posts. This post was right up my alley, perfectly witty. Which, sometimes, is all you really need in busy times I find myself in. Hopefully by the end of the year, I can put some normalcy back in life.

But well done, kind sir, very well done. Tip of the hat from someone that loves a good chuckle!

Posted by: han2503 Mar 1 2015, 07:44 PM

Pirlo is a top class player who doesn't really rely on his physical strength and stamina but more on his skills.

Antonelli is a run of the mill Serie A defender. A FB at that, a position that is more physically demanding compared to what Pirlo does

I don't think the situations can be compared.

Well, DS would be long term, especially if he gets his act together. These constant injuries are not helping in that department that's for sure.

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 22 2015, 08:34 PM

Anyone watching El Classico tonight? Should be a good one.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 22 2015, 08:40 PM

I'm in. I'll be on Carletto's side naturally.

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 22 2015, 09:35 PM

Benzema's back heel, fantastic.

Posted by: Danny Mar 22 2015, 09:52 PM

Quickest 45 minutes this season.

Messi nowhere to be seen, Ronaldo running the show and Real should have more goals.

1-1 isn't that accurate so far, here's hoping Carlo's boys justify their superiority.

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 22 2015, 10:10 PM

Yeah, Barça have been completely anonymous.

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 22 2015, 10:59 PM

Well, that was a 180 turnaround.

Posted by: Danny Mar 23 2015, 12:45 AM

Real ran out of puff, while Barca dived their way to victory.

They disgust me.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 23 2015, 01:19 AM

Yeah, but they did actually play better.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 23 2015, 02:48 PM

Agreed

I was totally rooting for Real, but you have to admit that Barca were the better team in that second half

Posted by: kurtsimonw Mar 23 2015, 06:48 PM

Carlo should be employed by clubs as a CL manager, let someone do the domestic work, he's awful.

Posted by: Danny Mar 23 2015, 10:14 PM

Only after Suarez scored.

Pity though they spent most of the time after that on the floor feigning injury.

They're an insult to football. For all their great players, they resort to cheating at all times.

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 23 2015, 10:37 PM

Mascherano's antics were disgusting.

Posted by: Danny Mar 23 2015, 11:59 PM

One of the best 3 DM's on his day, Argentina's best player last year at Brazil along with Zabaleta, doesn't need to act like that.

And yet...does.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 24 2015, 10:57 PM

Some players are just inherently dirty. Has nothing to do with their talent. Look at Diego Costa for example, one of the dirtiest players I've seen in some time

Posted by: Danny Mar 25 2015, 12:00 PM

Oh what Mascherano did wasn't dirty, it was cheating. He feigned being struck on the face, rolled a bunch of times, then got up and started a ruckus.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 25 2015, 12:43 PM

Well, but that's the same.

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 25 2015, 01:13 PM

That's just what being at Barça does to you. It's like a bug. Nothing to do with Mascherano being a dirty player or cheater.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Mar 25 2015, 01:22 PM

I think it does. He did that kind of shenanigans at Liverpool as well.

Posted by: han2503 Mar 25 2015, 03:37 PM

Isn't it all a packaged deal?

Being dirty doesn't just end at making bad fouls, play acting, cheating, doing sh!t behind the ref's back, that's all part of what being a dirty player is imo.


Nah, it has nothing to do with being a Barca player. Like I said, it's ingrained in certain players to be this way. Like Pepe at Real isn't rotten to the core for example?

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 25 2015, 03:58 PM

I honestly don't remember Mascherano being a dirty player/cheater. Could be wrong.



Oh trust me, it does. It's not a coincidence that 90% of the time they're falling like fairies on the pitch. Only respectable senators like Xavi or Messi refrain from doing it.

As for Pepe, the guy is simply trash. One of the dirtiest players I've ever seen.

Posted by: Danny Mar 25 2015, 04:03 PM

I'd say Costa is dirty, but smart with it, while Mascherano was just plain cheating.

Costa is naughty, behaves in a way to wind his opponents up. He's plain admitted it, will happily be overly aggressive and mischievous off the ball but he doesn't outright cheat.

He won't feign injury, won't dive. Mascherano will.

Both of these players are magnificent, but that side of their game is ugly, whether it's 'cheating' or 'dirty'.

Posted by: Danny Mar 25 2015, 04:05 PM

For me dirty is Costa, which isn't cheating. It's a way of getting in opponents' heads and doing everything within the laws of the game, and nearly crossing the line, to succeed.

But it doesn't disgrace the game the way what Mascherano did.

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 25 2015, 04:13 PM

Apparently Messi earns €65 million a season. That's €1.25 million a week. How crazy is that???

Posted by: Danny Mar 25 2015, 04:52 PM

That will include his sponsorship deals etc. They are what earn him the big bucks. His 'basic' wage is around 300-400K a week.

Sports stars earn the BIG money through their commercial deals.

Posted by: X-Offender Mar 25 2015, 05:16 PM

I wasn't making a distinction, it's just a freaking crazy amount of money.

Posted by: Danny Mar 25 2015, 11:03 PM

Oh absolutely. But imagine the number of deals he has!

Both of them (he and Ron) get around 14M a year each for being sponsored by Adidas and Nike respectively.

Beckham was legendary for basically quadrupling (and more) his basic salary with sponsorship and image rights fees.

Posted by: Rossoneri7 May 1 2015, 02:35 PM

Spain to adopt new tv rights agreement, Barca and Madrid will no longer negate their own tv deals.

Posted by: han2503 May 1 2015, 03:00 PM

^^^

Finally

Posted by: X-Offender May 31 2015, 02:05 PM

Messi back to his old levels. Last night's goal was out of this world.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Jun 1 2015, 01:22 AM

The run was out of this World. The actual goal was something you or I should be ashamed to concede.

Posted by: X-Offender Jun 1 2015, 10:30 AM

When it's Messi, it's never shameful.

Posted by: han2503 Jun 1 2015, 12:42 PM

Agreed about the goal, seemed very soft to concede at the near post.

Still, doesn't take anything away from it, just brilliant. I don't think we've seen Messi perform at these levels since around 2010 maybe?

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 6 2015, 08:36 PM

Arda Turan to Barça is official for €34 million + €7 million bonuses.

Pointless signing IMO, they don't need him.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 6 2015, 08:50 PM

Question is, who do they need? Maybe fullbacks and a defender, but..

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 6 2015, 09:57 PM

They don't need anybody.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 7 2015, 02:05 PM

This is why I can't stand Barca, Bayern and Real. Their glutton knows no bounds

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 7 2015, 05:07 PM

Mixing Bayern into the Spanish bunch is a grave mistake. Yes, especially with Guardiola Bayern also started buying disproportionally big, but there's still a difference.

Posted by: han2503 Jul 7 2015, 07:37 PM

I'm sorry but I can't agree. And this is not just something that's been happening since Guardiola has been there either

Bayern have been sucking their own league dry for years. That's why they're usually the only challengers for the title aside from a couple of odd seasons here and there. They simply buy all the talent out of their own league. And this is not something that's been happening for these past 2 years. It's always been their MO

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 7 2015, 08:08 PM

I don't follow. Isn't this basically the modus operandi of every big team in the major league?

Posted by: han2503 Jul 7 2015, 10:02 PM

I think the 3 clubs that I mentioned take it to a whole other level

They literally drain the league so they're the only ones left standing.

Juve do it, but only to a certain extent, they don't go out and buy every big name prospect in Serie A just for sh!ts and giggles.

Man City were sort of making a bit of a trend of it a few years ago but not so much anymore.

And I don't think Chelsea and Man U do it a lot either.

Posted by: acid911 Jul 7 2015, 10:56 PM

Oh but they do, those drugged suckers. They do it less than Bayern, but more than Madrid and Barcelona. The two La Liga clubs at least bring in a lot of players from outside the league. Juventus, however, looks inside first, drain the league and then some.

Posted by: X-Offender Jul 7 2015, 11:19 PM

Nah, you just like hating on Juve.

Posted by: acid911 Jul 8 2015, 12:21 AM

Aye, that too, but I was pretty okay with them winning the CL final. In fact, I wanted them to win it, was pretty annoyed with how Allegri (and the team overall) approached the game after 1-1. At all other times, yeah, these guys are public enemy number one, and as far as I am concerned, our biggest rival.

I never liked them since the day I started following the league, and then their doping scandal just made it clear.

Posted by: Danny Jul 8 2015, 10:53 AM

Couldn't agree more.

All their significant signings from summer last year bar Evra & Moratta have been from Serie A clubs.

Only today we're learning about them nabbing Zaza. That's 7 of 10 players.

If that's not sucking the league dry, what is?

Posted by: han2503 Jul 8 2015, 02:32 PM

You don't see Juve buying out the best players from all of their direct competitors though, which Bayern do just for the sake of it. Like Lewandowski and Goetze, just for the latter to sit on the bench for half of the fixtures


Zaza was their player to begin with, just like Berardi is half theirs as well.

You can't fault them for making a smart investment and keeping their fingers dipped in various places, that's just smart.

Unlike us, who've had talented players like Darmian for example come out of our own system and we simply let him go for basically nothing. Now he's worth over 20m for sure in this market.

All this to keep on playing Favalli or Bonera or whoever else we had at that time that Darmian was making his way through

Posted by: Danny Jul 8 2015, 07:03 PM

So? That has to be the flimsiest argument ever. You're praising them for letting a youth player go for free then buying him back for millions?

That's good business?!

Christ, I know you want to perpetuate your Juve being fair argument with Bayern, Real and Barca being the baddies, but this case is truly feeble!

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 8 2015, 07:18 PM

Nah, Han you're completely off about all of this.

1) On Bayern

Götze played this season almost regularly; it's Guardiolas rotation system that needs such players, even if Ribery and Robben are fit. Lewandowski came in and Madžukić out, I don't see how they signed Lewa just for the sake of it? But in the big picture, Bayern always mixed plenty of homegrown talent (from Kohler to Badstuber and Lahm, Jeremies to Kroos, etc.) with buys like Lucio or Ballack. But they never raided the league just for the sake of having these players - all key buys like Lucio, Ballack, Ze Roberto, Kovač, etc. had crucial roles.

But the main thing you miss, probably because you're not into the Bundesliga; there's a key difference: Juventus-Milan, Milan-Juventus, etc. transfers are more rare because of the rivalry. Only out of commodity did the Inter-Milan and vice versa transfers start to become more regular. But to leave Milan for say Juventus was and still is a bit odd, especially for key players.

That's different in Germany. The traditional clubs like München 1860, Eintracht, Nürenberg and HSV all play minor roles in the last decade(s). The newly established stronger clubs like Wolfsburg, Leverkusen, etc. have no particular tradition of rivalry, so it+s more natural for Bayern to sing their players, even star players. Now Dortmund is an exemption. Bayern did not shop with Dortmund right until Götze and now Lewa. And like I said, with Guardiola things started to change. The Bayern prior to that was different, you need to have more insight to know this.

2) On Milan

I'd like nothing more then find another bad aspect of our recent affairs but, in all honesty, let's revise your statement.

You say this like Darmian is a good example, but in all honesty it's a fluke. One good out of many bad. Look at the various players like Verdi, Grimi, Marzorati, etc. etc. Darmian, who Tennie called from day one as I recall a big potential, never impressed me with his various ventures, for example at Palermo. Only recently he's been rediscovered and I'm still not sure if it's just a good season or two or if he's really reached the highest level. But you cannot base your theory on one player, and that's what you have here. Maybe one and a half with Paloschi considered

Posted by: han2503 Jul 8 2015, 09:40 PM

I actually said that wrong. Berardi was the one on a co-ownership not Zaza, which is what I meant, however, Juve paid 12m for Zaza (with the deal involving the second half of Berardi going to Sassuolo). They had previously sold him to Sassuolo for 7.5m. That deal is cheaper than most co-own resolutions are. So yes, Juve let him go and bought him back, but they still had a strong hold on him, thanks to the other deal with regards to Berardi. Everyone knows both players were always Juve bound, just a matter of when not if. Also, they included a buy back option for Berardi as well, so when they want him, they'll bring him back.

Most importantly, these players were always Juve's and they made it so that they can bring them back when they want them, sure for a little cash, but 12m for a club that's doing so well is a good deal to have these players out and getting quality play time in the league that they wouldn't have gotten had they kept them or just loaned them.

Point is, Juve made smart investments, for players when they were young and still not really established. This is not like Barca buying Turan, or Real buying Isco. They bought a prospect from a Serie A and Serie B side. It was an investment which could have gone either way


1) No I'm no expert on the Bundesliga, but this has nothing to do with rivalries or what not. You think if Juve came in with a mega offer for one of our or Inter's players we wouldn't jump on it? Because that's what Bayern do. My point does not go into that technicality, just that Bayern simply buys the best talents out of its own league which usually leaves them the only option for that title. Barca and Real both do this as well. Simple as that really.

Goetze was just an example, I really don't think they needed him all that much. And Mandzukic was sold because they saw an opportunity to get Lewandowski. Juve's best players and backbone are players that came from teams in other leagues

Vidal, Barzagli, Pogba, Tevez, Morata, Chiellini and Marchisio coming through their own system. Others who are very important and they bought from teams within the league are Buffon, Bonucci and Licthsteiner, and none came from a direct rival for the title


2) Yes, Darmian is just one example. How about Boriello then? Sent him out on loan after loan after loan, and co-owned him here and there, only to pay 10m for just half of his contract after that co-own. How is that smart? Has Boriello ever been worth 20m FFS?

I get why certain things happen, sometimes the patience to wait out a player isn't there, but at least if he shows any sign of being potentially decent enough to be a starter for any Serie A side (from a bottom to a top side), handle him smartly. Look at Abate for example. We sent him here and there many times, but we brought him back because we still owned him and he was doing well at Toro.

Granted and just to be fair, the co-ownership system did tie the hands of the big clubs in this respect and I'm glad it's been abolished

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 9 2015, 07:05 AM

You're basically building your case around Götze and Lewandowski, because other then that you've got nothing, han. But you're again wrong. Bayern do not make mega offers, they buy the strongest Bundesliga players, almost never breaking the bank:

The Kovač brothers came in for only circa €14 Million, Pizzaro for €8.2 Million back in 2001; Ballack costed them €6 Million and Ze Roberto €9 Million, Lucio and Klose about €12M each. All the while players like Lahm or Kroos came out of their youth system and were loaned and brought back at a certain age, just like your precious and noble Juventus

My main point is this: English clubs and Italian clubs don't trade players with such ease between them because of the traditional rivalries (but things like the RvP deal happen). But all league champions do raid their own league in order to strengthen themselves and at the same time weaken the oppositions to a degree. Juventus nowadays isn't particularly signing players from Serie A because in all honesty they ain't that good and overpriced. Why did you forget to mention Pirlo, a key signing for their first breakthrough? It also happened withing the league. Just like they signed Chiellini as well (not like you said from their "own system", whatever that means). Then you have the various players of Emerson (Roma), Salas (Lazio), Nedved (Lazio), Thuram (Parma), Cannavaro (Inter), Melo (Fiorentina), Vučinić (Roma), etc.

What makes Barcelona and Real different from all the other examples is that they actually buy the competitors best players off and then rarely play them. They virtually buy just for the sake of buying them. Bayern just up until recently never did that.


Well, you see, mentioning Borriello shows how deep (or in fact the opposite) this goes. Borriello is nothing special, we lost some money on him, but all in all it's a deal Juventus usually makes for their players, which you still consider okay.

Bottom line remains the same: I don't think we played extremely stupid with our youth products because pretty much all of them turned out bad, starting with Donati and Donadel and moving on to several others.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 9 2015, 09:35 AM

Oh, and han, you'll be thrilled about this one. I read at Milannews after a lengthily interview with Mauro Tassotti that his new role will be to follow Milan loan players and evaluate their progress, so that future Darmians don't happen. Happy?

Posted by: han2503 Jul 9 2015, 11:36 AM

I think you just answered your own question when you listed al those players. Also taking into account that in the early 00s transfer sums hadn't exploded to the kind of numbers we're seeing nowadays.

And yes, Goetze is just one example that I'm familiar with, like I already admitted, I'm no expert on the Bundersliga, I just know that Bayern have been buying out the leagues best players for years now.

From the list of players you mentioned that Juve bought over the years, only Canna was from a direct rival and competitor for the title.

I'm not saying that Juve don't do it, or that Chelsea Man City and United don't either, just not to the extend that the Spanish duo and Bayern do.

As for Pirlo, he was a free agent when Juve signed him, he had nothing to do with us by that point we had already done more than enough to burn those bridges on our own


Yes, the number of examples one can provide is very limited, but at the end of the day we did end up losing a youth product of our own who's now worth a lot of money, same with Boriello no matter how terrible he is we did stupidly pay 10m to buy out half his contract.


Ecstatic

Yes, I seriously am. Situations like this shouldn't happen imo

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 9 2015, 01:19 PM

Man, you're stubborn. Okay, let's say we solved that youth discussion.

The prizes Bayern paid for Ballack for example who lead Germany to the final or WC champs like Roberto and Lucio are very meager compared to the prizes Real spent that very summer. How can you still put Bayern in the same basket?

Your argument about Juventus is not solid, in fact, you should know: to be objective means to apply the same rules to all compared elements. Now, you say you don't know much about the Bundesliga but you claim Bayern sings more players right from the opposition, more then Juventus, United or Chelsea.

About Juventus in particularly...man do you know what you're saying? Only Canna was signed off from a direct opponent? Be honest man. Juventus signed Buffon from Parma when they were 4th, competing for the title. Same happened with Nedved and Salas for Lazio who ended up 3rd in the season prior the transfers. That's not direct rivals to you? Nah man, you lost me here.

Posted by: Danny Jul 9 2015, 01:30 PM

Posted by: han2503 Jul 9 2015, 02:06 PM

what does it matter how much they paid? The point is they pretty much signed all their important players from within the league, thus continually strengthening their own team while weakening the rest of the league. If you don't see that as problematic and similar to what Barca and Real do than we should stop here. Because I don't know what else we can say.

And I said from the start that I'm no Bundesliga expert, but you don't have to be one to see the pattern here. I don't really care all that much about the history of the rivalries between the German clubs, I don't really care for German clubs in general tbh. But just because I don't watch the football, doesn't mean that I can't read or have general knowledge about the transfer history of the German league or Bayern more specifically

And I shall repeat. I never said that Juve don't do it. From the very first post, I said Juve also do it to an extent. And players from Parma and Lazio? It's not like they came in and bought Sheva off us just because it stroke their fancy back in the day when money in Serie A was abundant. Actually we did that with Pippo off them during those times, not the other way around.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Jul 10 2015, 11:21 AM

I think it matters if they signed someone for free, for a reasonable sum or like Barcelona did with Arda Turan. He clearly isn't worth the money, yet they did it - so to say just for the sake of it. That's why Real and Barcelona go IMO in a slightly different group, because they sign opposition players and they don't need.

I see a pattern, but I repeat, it's a patter all league contenders and champions follow. You seem to have a reason why you separate Bayern, Barcelona and Real, but from the arguments you've shown so far your reasoning isn't either quantifiable nor does it contain facts.


Fair enough. But let's turn the other side then. I think it is the medias and the rivalries that prevent such transfers to happen in England that often. But in other countries? Take any good team with a continuity of winning the domestic league. Now, if that league is very good and competition like Serie A in the 90's and 00's, or the Bundesliga around 00's, it's only natural for teams to do so.


Don't you think they would have taken off Sheva if they could? What prevented them is 1) Sheva's loyalty and happiness at Milan, 2) our rivalry with Juventus and the fact that we didn't have to sell him

But why do you discard Parma and Lazio? Shevchenko has nothing to do with it.

Oh and now that you mention Inzaghi. Yes, Milan also did that. Inzaghi, Baggio and a few others pop instantly in my mind.