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> Serie A - Week 13 - 14 - Napoli to Torino - Milan, Date: 26/11/17 Time: 15:00 CET

 
Fillipo Simone
post Nov 21 2017, 06:09 PM
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No, I think Conte himself said he'd like to return to Italy. Anyway, I think this logic is pretty stupid. Unless we have a sealed agreement with one big coach like Ancelotti or Conte keeping Montella makes zero sense. Squandering this season and infesting the new players with the bad loser mentality routine is not what we need.

Giampaolo? I don't know. This is a wild guess. But I'm really tired of coaches alla Montella, Giampaolo, etc. When was the last time Milan appointed a coach with pedigree, with titles and results?
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post Nov 22 2017, 12:29 AM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 21 2017, 06:09 PM) *
Giampaolo? I don't know. This is a wild guess. But I'm really tired of coaches alla Montella, Giampaolo, etc. When was the last time Milan appointed a coach with pedigree, with titles and results?


2001.
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Fillipo Simone
post Nov 22 2017, 01:58 AM
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I really think it's time.

What makes me worrisome is the constant reports (not just tabloids, but very serious articles from news agencies) of Milan being in financial danger after the takeover. I think this is the crucial point here; either we're gonna shake off these rumors and problems and offer a viable plan to a new ambitious coach or we're gonna start spiraling downwards.
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Fillipo Simone
post Nov 26 2017, 04:16 PM
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Anyone watching?

A crucial problems lies within Montella. I'm not sure if we're holding onto him for just this season, but I'm pretty sure that had we got rid of him at the beginning Milan would have been in a much better competitive position. Now it's September and we're practically out of all chances to play the CL (unless we win the Europa League, which is quite unlikely - we're probably get run over by BVB or someone else).

Montella is missing to inspire and move our players both individually and collectively. Not able to find the best spots for certain (important) players, not able to find the right team mentality and goals. Also not able to let the team play well, organize a thought-through intelligent gameplan. IMO he has to go and we gotta find a interim coach for the rest of the season. Panucci, Brocchi or whoever. I don't care. Montella simply has lost it.

But on top of this I think other problems pop out as well. I know some of you guys will jump to the argument that this is a brand new team, 10 players, bla bla bla... But I've watched football too long now to know that there's always more then just one problem or angle. Yes, this is a new team. Yes, the coach failed in producing the necessary cohesion. But I also think our transfer campaign failed miserably.

I'm not the one to gloat or shout "I told you so", but I was for the most part right I think (and so was Danny). Bonucci is a special case, I think he'll be regaining form and will turn into a real asset for us in the future - that is if we have one. But the other buys turned out very unimpressive. Musacchio is solid, but shaky for the experience he has; should have. Rodriguez is a good option and probably by far our best catch.

Kessie whom I expected great things is rapidly turning into a "Kondogbia buy" for us. A "jack of all trades" player who IMO has little room to improve and become good in modern football. Calhanoglou is exactly how I remember him from the Leverkusen days - a typical product of Balkan mentality - talented, very gifted but lazy, moody and completely unpredictable. Biglia IMO was a fair shot and might turn out okay just yet, but I do fear that he's past his prime and not really up to it.

Andre Silva (although too soon to assess) is also raising some serious questions. Just like I warned, Silva is reproducing his Portugal form - scoring against the various Austria Wien and Rijeka teams, while at the same time not scoring a single goal in the league.

To be fair, Montella created several problems by himself (sidelining Bacca and now suffering the consequences with a roster of inferior attackers). Yet in the end our bold transfer campaign misfired: I fear that on top of Montella obviously not being the kind of coach that will make us thrive, we've not managed to hit the right mixture, the right balance of players and we still lack the same components we're lacking for years (only perhaps in smaller doses).
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Fillipo Simone
post Nov 26 2017, 04:17 PM
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Probably talking to myself here... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
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maldini03
post Nov 26 2017, 05:27 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 26 2017, 09:16 AM) *
Anyone watching?

A crucial problems lies within Montella. I'm not sure if we're holding onto him for just this season, but I'm pretty sure that had we got rid of him at the beginning Milan would have been in a much better competitive position. Now it's September and we're practically out of all chances to play the CL (unless we win the Europa League, which is quite unlikely - we're probably get run over by BVB or someone else).


This ^ we gave him all the tools. We brought in a new crop and we gave him time to build. We didn't have time to waste, but we wasted it anyway - should have pulled the trigger when things began to get rough.

QUOTE
Montella is missing to inspire and move our players both individually and collectively. Not able to find the best spots for certain (important) players, not able to find the right team mentality and goals. Also not able to let the team play well, organize a thought-through intelligent gameplan. IMO he has to go and we gotta find a interim coach for the rest of the season. Panucci, Brocchi or whoever. I don't care. Montella simply has lost it.


I think that this is part of the problem that bleeds into your next point, but I agree. At this point we need someone to galvanize these players and get them headed in the right direction mentally otherwise we wont be getting a coach with any real pedigree.

QUOTE
But on top of this I think other problems pop out as well. I know some of you guys will jump to the argument that this is a brand new team, 10 players, bla bla bla... But I've watched football too long now to know that there's always more then just one problem or angle. Yes, this is a new team. Yes, the coach failed in producing the necessary cohesion. But I also think our transfer campaign failed miserably.


This is easier to say in hindsight, but I think for the most part you are right, we started the summer looking good. Wanting X player for X amount and getting the deals done but at the end, the train came off the tracks.

QUOTE
I'm not the one to gloat or shout "I told you so", but I was for the most part right I think (and so was Danny). Bonucci is a special case, I think he'll be regaining form and will turn into a real asset for us in the future - that is if we have one. But the other buys turned out very unimpressive. Musacchio is solid, but shaky for the experience he has; should have. Rodriguez is a good option and probably by far our best catch.


The defensive signings I'm okay with. Conti getting a serious injury was unforeseeable, RR has been good, Mussachio was signed before the rest and at the time was a good signing to pair with Romag. Then we got Bonucci and his position was one he has to fight for. Bonucci will be an asset goign forward. Today he actually looked really good as did the defense as a whole.

QUOTE
Kessie whom I expected great things is rapidly turning into a "Kondogbia buy" for us. A "jack of all trades" player who IMO has little room to improve and become good in modern football. Calhanoglou is exactly how I remember him from the Leverkusen days - a typical product of Balkan mentality - talented, very gifted but lazy, moody and completely unpredictable. Biglia IMO was a fair shot and might turn out okay just yet, but I do fear that he's past his prime and not really up to it.



I disagree with the Kessie criticism I am seeing a good amount of on here. He is a very talented player and is just a kid. Look at Diawara for Napoli, he is the same kind of player but he has had a year to come off the bench with no responsibility. We have placed a world of pressure on Kessie, and although he has had lapses, for the most part, he has been solid. You can't expect him to singlehandedly be the creator, enforcer, and box to box. His is a new type of position that only a few coaches really know how to get the best from. Kondogbia has been good in Spain - with the right system and the right players around him he can become something special. Hell, look at who Pogba got to play next to. Pirlo and Vidal (a near perfect tandem). The guy had no responsibilities in that team and in that environment, he thrived.

QUOTE
Andre Silva (although too soon to assess) is also raising some serious questions. Just like I warned, Silva is reproducing his Portugal form - scoring against the various Austria Wien and Rijeka teams, while at the same time not scoring a single goal in the league.


Silva I was never sold on for the present but hopefully, he will come good in the future. I am concerned mostly about his position on the field. I can't really figure out where he is supposed to be playing and that makes me a little nervous. But, he is still young and has the potential to be a starting striker. If not, hopefully a few good appearances from him in the WC, and a few more goals this year will keep his value high.


I watched the game too Fillipo and I think you bring up some great points. Today Kessie played well along with the defense and especially Montolivo. The problems for me mostly lie with the coach. He can't figure out a way to get these guys to play cohesively. He is wasting the potential of a guy like Kessie. The formation and constant changing is stupid. A guy plays well one game and sits the next makes absolutely no sense. For me, Locatelli was our best player against Napoli. I missed the midweek game but if he is playing well he should play every game. I think Montella has gotten too worried about who the players are and has lost sight of what he was all about. Everyone should earn their start. I don't care if we dropped 20M on a guy he shouldn't play if he is playing poorly and I'd guess that is what made some of the "senators" mad about this season.

Last year Bona and Suso were our best players. This year Hakan comes in and starts over Bona. That doesn't make any sense. Ditto the Kalinic - Cutrone situation.

Kalinic, Biglia, Hakan hell even Silva seem like stupid money. For what we spent on those three we could have gotten a real do it all forward like Belotti and a real midfielder who could make us better. The rest could have been spent on picking up young hungry players to build the team for the future.

5 years ago we spent money the same way, just gap filling the perceived holes (think Honda, Menez, Adriano etc.)- then we seemed to get smarter. Romagnoli, promoting our own youth, Bonaventura, Suso these were good deals for players that would help us create something. Then money came in and they said throw it at players with a name instead of a guy who is going to grow with what we are already building.

This post has been edited by maldini03: Nov 26 2017, 05:32 PM
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CrazyMilanFan
post Nov 27 2017, 12:11 PM
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Coach sacked.
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d'Arc.LP
post Nov 27 2017, 01:16 PM
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Montella off, now we can start commentary again. I'm glad. Nothing has been lost yet.
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Jack Sparrow
post Nov 27 2017, 02:17 PM
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QUOTE (d'Arc.LP @ Nov 27 2017, 07:46 PM) *
Montella off, now we can start commentary again. I'm glad. Nothing has been lost yet.


Montella fired has less to do with Montella and everything to do with kicking the players out of their complacency. I saw the last game. I don't know if you can blame Montella when players miss sitters. Let's face it their GK was MotM. The players are the ones missing that extra 10% and firing the coach will send a message to the players I hope.

That said Gattuso was probably the worst hire we could have done. No experience. No winning experience. Seems a simple fan pleasing initiative and even worse apparently we didn't even have the class to tell Montella face to face. Sending a collaborator instead.

I hate to say it but considering the players we have brought in, the lack of tactical identity and considering we were not so clueless last season should it have been Mirabelli out and not Montella out? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)
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d'Arc.LP
post Nov 27 2017, 02:43 PM
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QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Nov 27 2017, 04:17 PM) *
Montella fired has less to do with Montella and everything to do with kicking the players out of their complacency. I saw the last game. I don't know if you can blame Montella when players miss sitters. Let's face it their GK was MotM. The players are the ones missing that extra 10% and firing the coach will send a message to the players I hope.

That said Gattuso was probably the worst hire we could have done. No experience. No winning experience. Seems a simple fan pleasing initiative and even worse apparently we didn't even have the class to tell Montella face to face. Sending a collaborator instead.

I hate to say it but considering the players we have brought in, the lack of tactical identity and considering we were not so clueless last season should it have been Mirabelli out and not Montella out? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)


23th different formation in the last 23 games tells everything about Montella.

I agree that the players are underperforming and hopefully a new coach will bring the better in them. Personally I like Conte or Ancelotti, but I dont mind Gattusso till the end of the season.

Our problem is not quality IMO, it's mentality.

And lets see if Gattuso can solve this mess.
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Jack Sparrow
post Nov 27 2017, 03:16 PM
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QUOTE (d'Arc.LP @ Nov 27 2017, 09:13 PM) *
23th different formation in the last 23 games tells everything about Montella.

I agree that the players are underperforming and hopefully a new coach will bring the better in them. Personally I like Conte or Ancelotti, but I dont mind Gattusso till the end of the season.

Our problem is not quality IMO, it's mentality.

And lets see if Gattuso can solve this mess.


What's the point of mentality if they have no game intelligence. Gattuso has been terrible with all the teams he has ever coached. I don't even know if he is tactically astute. I have to assume he learnt something in Coverciano. I'd rather have Nesta or even Seedorf than Rino. Let him do our youth team, then move to a lower Serie A side and keep going.
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Fillipo Simone
post Nov 27 2017, 03:46 PM
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I think Gattuso is just for the remainder of this season. Hopefully, yes?
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post Nov 27 2017, 04:19 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Nov 27 2017, 03:46 PM) *
I think Gattuso is just for the remainder of this season. Hopefully, yes?


Depends how well he'll perform.

Oh, and delighted for Montella's sacking. Too bad it was too late. The maximum we can achieve at this point is Europa League.
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post Nov 27 2017, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE (d'Arc.LP @ Nov 27 2017, 02:43 PM) *
23th different formation in the last 23 games tells everything about Montella.

I agree that the players are underperforming and hopefully a new coach will bring the better in them. Personally I like Conte or Ancelotti, but I dont mind Gattusso till the end of the season.

Our problem is not quality IMO, it's mentality.

And lets see if Gattuso can solve this mess.


Weren't you positive that we would get better with time? That we'd have to be patient with Montella? Changed your mind at last?
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Jack Sparrow
post Nov 27 2017, 04:42 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Nov 27 2017, 10:50 PM) *
Weren't you positive that we would get better with time? That we'd have to be patient with Montella? Changed your mind at last?


Well, I disagree with d'Arc's comment that it was the 23rd different formation. It was mostly the 23rd different lineup. To be fair it's been difficult with injuries. Conti and RR are our starting fullbacks. Biglia is meant to be our main regista etc etc.

Just to re-state, firing Montella was not just because our tactics were pathetically stagnant - but more to do with the fact that the players seemed to be not responding. At least some of the blame needs to go on the players and they needed this kind of ***-kicking. A new coach automatically means no one can assume themselves to be safe selections of the coach's favourites. Everyone starts from scratch and earns their place. Players performing poorly because they lost faith in the coach now try and step up their game etc. etc.


I'd have taken Bielsa though to be honest. But he's such a hipster, I wouldn't be surprised if he benched Bonucci, started Verghara and played Antonio Donarumma as a left winger.
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