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> Summer Transfers 2019

 
X-Offender
post Sep 3 2019, 11:01 AM
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QUOTE (William405 @ Sep 3 2019, 11:00 AM) *
I think we did okay. Why should we sell Donna? Yes, it was a quite expensive transfer market, but we did improve key areas. We need to get into the Champions leauge to become attractive for the big players. Look at Inter..


Agreed. Keeping Donna and Suso was a success IMO.
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Fillipo Simone
post Sep 3 2019, 11:04 AM
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QUOTE (William405 @ Sep 3 2019, 12:56 PM) *
What do you mean? He is a red-card magnet? Or his performances are not consistent?

Honestly, in my opinion, he will be a success with us. Exactly the type of player we need. Of course, he will need to evolve with us, but I really like his pace and his general play.

He is consistently inconsistent and depends on the mood of the team. If the team plays good he's usually good, if the team is bad he's usually the worst.
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Fillipo Simone
post Sep 3 2019, 11:10 AM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 3 2019, 01:01 PM) *
Agreed. Keeping Donna and Suso was a success IMO.

I think we should have gone with selling Donnarumma. I admit, I'm not a good judge in goalkeeper talent. But let's open the Donna-Milan talk. He has a big contract with us and is our number 1 keeper for 5 seasons or so. In the last two seasons IMO he hasn't really grown or evolved. The problems that bugged him years ago are still there, his mistakes and stupid decision making is here, his poor ball handling and passing hasn't improved. Whereas his price could actually sink after yet another average season. Next year Italy will play the Euro and if he (which is more then expected IMO) makes some of his stupid errors at this stage, we'll never get that kind of money out of him that we could have got now.

All the while we have Reina who's okay for a time like ours. I think we have to be rational - we have to put our money in places we actually need extra quality. I'd sell Donna in a heartbeat for a real good organizational player or a classy striker who creates on his own.
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CrazyMilanFan
post Sep 3 2019, 11:10 AM
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QUOTE (William405 @ Sep 3 2019, 12:00 PM) *
I think we did okay. Why should we sell Donna? Yes, it was a quite expensive transfer market, but we did improve key areas. We need to get into the Champions leauge to become attractive for the big players. Look at Inter..

In the end it is good that we kept both Donna and Suso. But to me it is a bit alarming that how we cannot even sell our top players.

As for the window, it just depends how good will the new young talent be on the field.
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post Sep 3 2019, 11:35 AM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Sep 3 2019, 11:10 AM) *
I think we should have gone with selling Donnarumma. I admit, I'm not a good judge in goalkeeper talent. But let's open the Donna-Milan talk. He has a big contract with us and is our number 1 keeper for 5 seasons or so. In the last two seasons IMO he hasn't really grown or evolved. The problems that bugged him years ago are still there, his mistakes and stupid decision making is here, his poor ball handling and passing hasn't improved. Whereas his price could actually sink after yet another average season. Next year Italy will play the Euro and if he (which is more then expected IMO) makes some of his stupid errors at this stage, we'll never get that kind of money out of him that we could have got now.

All the while we have Reina who's okay for a time like ours. I think we have to be rational - we have to put our money in places we actually need extra quality. I'd sell Donna in a heartbeat for a real good organizational player or a classy striker who creates on his own.


Hmmm, yes he makes mistakes from time to time, but the guy has saved our asses in so many occasions. When it comes to world class saves, I think he is one of the best. His reflexes are extraordinary.
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post Sep 3 2019, 01:32 PM
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I see Daniel Maldini has been included in the 2018/19 roster, but he's been given the #98 shirt. I was under the impression that any Maldini kid could have chosen the #3 in case they made it to the first team.
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CrazyMilanFan
post Sep 3 2019, 04:36 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 3 2019, 02:32 PM) *
I see Daniel Maldini has been included in the 2018/19 roster, but he's been given the #98 shirt. I was under the impression that any Maldini kid could have chosen the #3 in case they made it to the first team.

May be 3 is mainly a defenders number and i believe he is an AM
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post Sep 3 2019, 05:19 PM
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QUOTE (CrazyMilanFan @ Sep 3 2019, 04:36 PM) *
May be 3 is mainly a defenders number and i believe he is an AM


Still should have taken the 3.

Anyway, looks like the Correa deal was almost done, according to AS. Atletico had lowered their demands, but then out of the blue we opted for a loan instead, and they declined (rightfully so).

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)
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Fillipo Simone
post Sep 3 2019, 07:26 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 3 2019, 07:19 PM) *
Still should have taken the 3.

Anyway, looks like the Correa deal was almost done, according to AS. Atletico had lowered their demands, but then out of the blue we opted for a loan instead, and they declined (rightfully so).

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Oh good God (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

Maybe we'll be able to snatch him up during January, if he would still join us by then.
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han2503
post Sep 3 2019, 07:27 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 2 2019, 08:51 PM) *
I knew someone would bring this up.

Let me ask you a question. Out of the three seasons Kessie has played in Serie A thus far, which has been his best?

A ) Atalanta 16/17
B ) Milan 17/18
C ) Milan 18/19

The obvious answer is A. And what position did Kessie occupy then? He was part of the double pivot in Gasperini's 3-4-1-2, usually alongside Freuler. What position does Kessie occupy in his NT? Still part of the double pivot in Ivory Coast's 4-2-3-1, as per the Africa Cup of Nations from a couple of months ago.

So, why do people doubt him in that role here then? If anything, playing more retracted in midfield would relieve him of most of his offensive freedom (where he makes most mistakes) that come by being played as mezz'ala, and would give him more defensive duties, where he can exert his physicality and pressure on the ball (arguably his strongest suits).

Playing Biglia alongside Bennacer would be having two players of similar characteristics, and everyone knows that a double pivot works best when you have both brains (Bennacer) and brawn (Kessie) together.

You make good points. Maybe I have this general feeling about Kessie in a holding role from one or two games he played for us under Montella as the DM (not in a double pivot though)

I really wish Giampaolo would shift to something like that, it would suit all our players so much better

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Sep 2 2019, 10:53 PM) *
Agreed, but what irks me most is that Rebić is very unstable mentality-wise. This could turn out to be a problem considering our team.

What do you mean? What kind of issues has he had?
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han2503
post Sep 3 2019, 07:28 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 3 2019, 05:19 PM) *
Still should have taken the 3.

Anyway, looks like the Correa deal was almost done, according to AS. Atletico had lowered their demands, but then out of the blue we opted for a loan instead, and they declined (rightfully so).

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

Honestly, I don't think the money was ever really there for him.

When Silva to Monaco fell through this was basically over there and then
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Fillipo Simone
post Sep 4 2019, 10:47 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 3 2019, 01:35 PM) *
Hmmm, yes he makes mistakes from time to time, but the guy has saved our asses in so many occasions. When it comes to world class saves, I think he is one of the best. His reflexes are extraordinary.

But when it comes to downsizing and building a competitive squad that can reach CL you have to be shrewd and pragmatic. IMO it would benefit us more to sell Donna sooner rather then later because his value isn't rising in the past 2 seasons. Also, a team like Milan should prioritize important position at put all available resources in two or three key positions. Right now Donna does not give us any special edge; Reina can do good as well for a considerably lesser wage while the money from Donna's transfer could be used to sign a top player or top talent willing to come to Milan.

This is what I was saying all along. Is it necessary to splash 30M on a talent leftback? Even if he is the new Maldini. Hell even if he is a Maldini per se. This team with Paolo Maldini in the roster would still struggle and stay 5th or 6th or 7th. But this team with say Weah and Albertini would have a serious shot a 4th spot. This is the difference I'm talking about; and right now we're in a position where such decisions have to be made with care.

QUOTE (X-Offender @ Sep 3 2019, 03:32 PM) *
I see Daniel Maldini has been included in the 2018/19 roster, but he's been given the #98 shirt. I was under the impression that any Maldini kid could have chosen the #3 in case they made it to the first team.

Is this your thing with disliking high numbers? If so, I agree. But fact is, Milan retired the #3 shirt. Also, perhaps Daniele (and Paolo) wanted less pressure and publicity.

QUOTE (han2503 @ Sep 3 2019, 09:28 PM) *
Honestly, I don't think the money was ever really there for him.

When Silva to Monaco fell through this was basically over there and then

But we had the money to grab Leao and Duarte? Hmh...
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post Sep 4 2019, 11:31 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Sep 4 2019, 10:47 PM) *
But when it comes to downsizing and building a competitive squad that can reach CL you have to be shrewd and pragmatic. IMO it would benefit us more to sell Donna sooner rather then later because his value isn't rising in the past 2 seasons. Also, a team like Milan should prioritize important position at put all available resources in two or three key positions. Right now Donna does not give us any special edge; Reina can do good as well for a considerably lesser wage while the money from Donna's transfer could be used to sign a top player or top talent willing to come to Milan.

This is what I was saying all along. Is it necessary to splash 30M on a talent leftback? Even if he is the new Maldini. Hell even if he is a Maldini per se. This team with Paolo Maldini in the roster would still struggle and stay 5th or 6th or 7th. But this team with say Weah and Albertini would have a serious shot a 4th spot. This is the difference I'm talking about; and right now we're in a position where such decisions have to be made with care.


Who spent 30M on a left back?

I get your logic about Donnarumma. But as far I know, nobody made any considerable offers for him. I think only PSG did and they offered very little, so we didn't consider it.
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Fillipo Simone
post Sep 4 2019, 11:43 PM
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Sorry, 20M. Hernandez I meant.
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Forza Milan!
post Sep 5 2019, 07:30 AM
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QUOTE (CrazyMilanFan @ Sep 3 2019, 09:10 AM) *
So Summary as per transfermarket.com

IN:
R Leao 25 Million Euros (Forward)
T Hernandez 20 Million Euros (Full back)
I Bennacer 16 Million Euros (Midfield)
L Duarte 11 Million Euros (CB)
R Krunic 8 Million (Midfield)
Rebic 2 year loan 5 Million loan fee (Forward)
Kessie Irrelevant for this market


OUT:
P Cutrone 18 Million Euros
D Laxalt Loan with option to buy 8 Million
A silva 2 year loan

All other departures were either free or loans. So basically we failed to sell. From Donna, Suso to dead rubber like Samu, Borini etc all

We also sold Djalo (5M). And we reduced our wage bill considerably.

I understand the general frustration with AC Milan fans (here and on other forums). I am not particularly thrilled myself. That said ...

- FFP is real, B&G first and then F&M put us deep in a hole, and we have to climb out of it
- The FFP agreement with UEFA did *not* give us freedom to spend as much as we want (all it gave us is a little more time to meet FFP objectives, but we still have to be careful with spending)
- I really do not understand "FFP accounting", but it seems to me that "plusvalenze" are important and "minusvalenze" are to be avoided

If you take this into account, it can help understand some of what went on in this transfer market:

- We had to avoid selling players below book value (as that would have generated "minusvalenze"). And, unfortunately, some of our players are valued rather low based on their last couple of years (think Silva).
- As in the past, we struggled to sell marginal players with ridiculous wages (the few teams that can afford to pay a high salary do not care for them, smaller teams that may be interested are not willing to match their wage, and most players are not willing to take a pay cut by going somewhere else - think Monto).
- We did try to sell players that could generate a plusvalenza, even when that was not "popular" (think Cutrone). At the same time, we avoided "selling cheap" (for example, PSG's offer for Donna in June was unacceptable, same goes for the lowball offers we got for Suso).
- FFP driven restrictions can also explain the Correa saga. Initially we were counting on Silva's sale, we had to delay when the deal with Monaco fell apart, I guess we kept the deal alive because someone felt we needed someone with that player profile, and at the end (apparently) Atletico was willing to meet our offer but all we could afford was a loan deal (which Atletico understandably refused)

On the positive side:

- For the most part we got players that fit Giampaolo's system
- For the most part we got players with potential to increase in value (which will hopefully result in plusvalenze in the future)
- We did not dump / undersell players that we count on (I am ok with Cutrone leaving, as I do not think he is that good, I am not convinced we could have gotten much more, and his value was not going to increase by riding the bench)
- We did not pay excessively for players (for example, it would have been nice to get Sensi but not at that price)
- We did not get players that have "baggage" (think Icardi or some other "fan favorites" I have seen mentioned)
- Next year the book value of some of our crappy players will be lower (which will make our life a tad easier)
- Not only we reduced our wage bill, but new players were signed at reasonable wages
- For the most part, we did not go for loans (especially loans without a by option). Now, this last point is debatable, as one or two "quality" players may have been beneficial in the short run, possibly the difference between making CL or not. So it is not clear what makes most sense from a long term perspective.

Bottom line:

- Don't be too hard on Elliott and Gazidiz, what we are experiencing is clearly unpleasant, but I do not think there is much of a choice (we simply cannot get back to the top without meeting FFP rules). FWIW, Inter had to go through a similar "cure", though Suning did a great job with increasing revenues (let's see how our management fares in this area).
- Don't be too hard on Maldini and Boban, what they were asked to do was not easy (regardless of experience level)
- Stop lamenting Leo, he contributed in part to our problems by getting a couple of marginal players with ridiculous wages. He is good (possibly very good) for a team like PSG (which has a large budget and more room for errors), but not for present-day Milan.

As for Giampaolo, I share some of the concerns I have seen on this and other forums, but I think he is more "flexible" than he gets credit for, and his system is a tad more complex than what we have been used to in recent years (so he needs more time to get going). I *really* would like to watch Milan games and feel good about the team. Obviously I like "winning" but AFAIAC "winning ugly" is rather painful to watch, and even when winning we have been far from consistent. In other words, I am willing to give Giampaolo a little more time before I turn negative.

This post has been edited by Forza Milan!: Sep 5 2019, 07:33 AM
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