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AC Milan - Milanfan.com _ Matches _ Serie A - Week 9 to 11 - Genoa to Juve vs Milan
Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2017, 08:29 AM
This will most likely be the decisive match for Montella, not getting the 3 points here will most likely cost him is job, and I have to say, that from a long-term perspective, that would be the better outcome for us
Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2017, 08:35 AM
Sky's latest on Milan's XI vs. Genoa: Gigio; Zapata, Bonucci, Rodriguez; Borini, Kessie, Biglia, Bonaventura; Suso, Çalhanoğlu; Kalinic.
Suddenly I feel like Montella wants to get fired. So he can sit his @ss down for the next 2 years while still earning a paycheck
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 22 2017, 01:45 PM
Confirmed. Why Zapata and Rodriguez in defense, though.
Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2017, 02:04 PM
An absolute travesty of a line-up, defence is just the tip of the iceberg
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 22 2017, 02:52 PM
Bonucci commemorating his brilliant season thus far.
Posted by: maldini03 Oct 22 2017, 03:05 PM
I missed the first half but caught a quick highlight of Bonucci getting sent off courtesy of the VAR. Was it a malicious elbow? I only saw it once and very quickly.
Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2017, 03:08 PM
I still can't really tell if it was malicious or just a natural reaction tbh
Posted by: maldini03 Oct 22 2017, 03:18 PM
Yeah to me it didn't seem like a malicious elbow. I think it was just in the flow of the game, that kind of thing happens all the time. At the most, it should have been a yellow.
The team is actually not playing awful down a man. I think we will end up winning and Montella will be safe for a few more weeks. Unfortunately, this is not good for the outlook of our season.
Tbh: The ref looks pretty uneven today, I didn't catch the first half but to give a red for an incidental elbow and not give a yellow for a professional foul from Bertolacci seems ridiculous. Not saying that the ref plays a big part but something like that changes the flow of a game.
Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2017, 03:29 PM
The team is actually not playing awful down a man. I think we will end up winning and Montella will be safe for a few more weeks. Unfortunately, this is not good for the outlook of our season.
Tbh: The ref looks pretty uneven today, I didn't catch the first half but to give a red for an incidental elbow and not give a yellow for a professional foul from Bertolacci seems ridiculous. Not saying that the ref plays a big part but something like that changes the flow of a game.
The ref has been frustrating, but once again, this is all on us and Montella.
Had we been playing a half decent team, we'd be losing this heavily by now
We're simply clueless out there, we simply have no idea of how to break a team down, and this with basically all of our attacking players out on the pitch
He takes off Bona to put in Calabria now, what the hell is that supposed to do/change?
Posted by: maldini03 Oct 22 2017, 03:39 PM
Oh, of course, I am not blaming the ref for the failures of the coach and the team. Actually, I wouldn't mind taking a hit on points here because I think a new coach will be better long term.
Also, that was a great ball in from Suso to Kalinic. I bet F & M are wishing they had that money back to spend on a good midfielder/ winger.
Posted by: d'Arc.LP Oct 22 2017, 03:40 PM
Had we been playing a half decent team, we'd be losing this heavily by now
We're simply clueless out there, we simply have no idea of how to break a team down, and this with basically all of our attacking players out on the pitch
He takes off Bona to put in Calabria now, what the hell is that supposed to do/change?
Bona got an injury problem.
Posted by: maldini03 Oct 22 2017, 03:44 PM
I feel like the team just realized that Suso is our most dangerous player when he is pushing down the right wing. Also, I think that RR is so underutilized going forward. He is the best crosser on the team and he probably averages 1 cross a game.
Posted by: han2503 Oct 22 2017, 03:59 PM
If Montella isn't sacked after this, I'll seriously start to question whether or not Fassone and Mirabelli are right for the job
It's perfectly obvious that Montella is not going to be able to turn things around, we're going from bad to worse, the performances are continuing to deteriorate and the longer this goes on, the deeper into the toilet our season will go
I haven't seen this team play so bad since the latter Allegri years, and that's saying something considering how we played under Pippo. We can't even get the basics right atm. We pass the ball up the pitch, Suso/Bona/Borini gets it, they run a couple meters with the ball, no one is making runs ahead of them, they pass back or shoot, and repeat.
Posted by: maldini03 Oct 22 2017, 04:59 PM
FT 0-0. Four games without a win for Montella. I think its time we part ways. He is a good coach, but he simply doesn't have the tactical wherewithal or the understanding of the team. Montella looked really well last year with the Fiat of the team but now that we have upgraded and given him a Mercedes he looks lost and has figuratively crashed it into a wall.
Bring in someone new, at least that kind of a change will spark the team and maybe right the ship for us.
On another note, the announcer in my stream (English) had mentioned how much more comfortable Romag looks when playing in a back 4 and I definitely agree. He is our most physically gifted defender IMO and he looked good (along with Zaps!) out there today. That being said, it looks like Bonucci has definitely lost a step and he needs to regain some confidence and I am floored at how bad Biglia has been for us. I say we trot out the Christmas tree from the days of old Milan. Push Bonucci into either the Pirlo or Gattuso role which should give more freedom to Kessie and Biglia.
The former looks much better going forward but is atm being asked to be a distributor, destroyer, and offensive force. I think he can become a great player but he needs to be given the freedom to do those things. When he was playing at Atalanta he wasn't the anchor, he was a box crashing shuttler with great physicality which I think this team seriously needs based on the inability to score goals and get consistent pressure from our forwards. I think Silva should be playing most if not all of the games as the SS. Let Hakan and Bona fight it out for the other playmaker spot and switch between Cutrone and Kalinic for the prima punta. I know I have suggested this plan before but I think it would work if we tried something like this:
---------------------------------Donna-----------------------------------
----Calabria/Abate --Romag---------Mussachio----------RR-----------
---------------------------Bonucci/Biglia------Kessie/Biglia/ Loca------
-------------Suso/Kessie-------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------Jack/ Hakan----------------------
-----------------------Silva/Suso/Hakan---------------------------------
--------------------------------Cutro/Kalinic-----------------------------
Down that right side, there would be less emphasis on pushing the FB forward, because you have Suso dropping deep to play the wing and generate some steam. I think Kessie can also play down this side when we are looking for a more balanced midfield approach. Silva is good in the build-up play, and he has that instinct to create something. Him playing the 1-2 game with Suso and opening up the oppositions left wing can spring crosses or lead to some mismatches working the inside.
Down the left, the main attacking pressure would come from RR delivering early crosses, and working that left wing with Jack ideally or Hakan who both favor that side of the field.
Bonucci at this point is a better long passer than Biglia who seems to have no creativity whatsoever and has really looked like **** from that anchor spot. He doesn't kill attacks and he definitely doesn't start them. I would rather have a guy that is going to do one or the other really well than do both jobs insignificantly. Bonucci is the anti-Pirlo a defensive player who can play the long ball but he is a strong stopper. He is good in the air and he can add some steel to a dull midfield. This gives us the opportunity to add creative players around him without sacrificing defensively.
The two out- and -out strikers we have are essentially poachers. Kalinic is more dangerous with crosses whipped in, while Cutro is the better player at building up and moving in those small spaces.
In defense:
When teams try to counter, if we are pushed up the wings with RR for example, Romag shifts over to put pressure initially and Bonucci picks up the midfield runner. This leaves Kessie or Biglia, whoever is playing in that left-central mid spot to clog up the top of the box and the wingback to track back and either pressure down the wing with the pulled CB or to track a late runner.
I know that Suso doesn't help much defensively but when we counter with him coming to the edge of the box we generally look dangerous. He would be given the duty of kick-starting counter attacks by either dumping the ball inside to the playmakers or playing it long to the hold up prima punta.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 22 2017, 10:39 PM
4-2-3-1. I've been saying it from day one. Only that, right now I don't think it's just a problem of formation anymore. It's the mentality that needs to be fixed.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 23 2017, 10:52 AM
Yes. Pretty much. The formation is irrelevant. Poor from the coach. He's under a lot of pressure now. I can't agree with Filippo when he faults the management. We all thought it was amazing decision making from them this summer. Especially when all they set a target for was CL places.
I'm hoping this is just October being a **** month. Montella usually saves his worst for February, but maybe schedules have changed.
Posted by: Fishdoll Oct 23 2017, 08:17 PM
Well, the stories have been swirling around since the Samp game that there are not insignificant issues in the dressing room. Basically it's Mino's clients + Montolivo versus the New Guys (specifically Bonucci and Biglia). Sounds like it's not going too well at all (most recent article in Monday's Gazzetta).
Trying to institute a new way of playing with a bunch of new players is monumentally more difficult if the old guys are working to sabotage everything.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 23 2017, 10:11 PM
Who are the old guys? Bonaventura and?
Posted by: Fishdoll Oct 24 2017, 11:51 AM
Jack + Gigio + Montolivo . Abate, the other Mino Raiola client, isn't mentioned.
Mostly, Montolivo is pissed he's been benched in favor of Biglia, Jack doesn't like being played out of position, and Gigio is being a brat.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 24 2017, 11:53 AM
Hmh, I'm not sure what to think. Maybe this goes to far. I know Raiola is a scumbag, but this? I don't know...
Posted by: Fishdoll Oct 24 2017, 06:13 PM
I don't know if Mino's orchestrating it. Wouldn't surprise me if he weren't passively encouraging it tho.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 24 2017, 06:29 PM
Mostly, Montolivo is pissed he's been benched in favor of Biglia, Jack doesn't like being played out of position, and Gigio is being a brat.
Where are you reading all this, may I ask?
Posted by: han2503 Oct 24 2017, 08:27 PM
Let's keep all Chievo talk here
Anyway, I can't really see us winning tomorrow and I don't understand how the management could still hold onto Montella if this goes on any longer. It's just crazy, I can't understand why they're so hesitant to pull the trigger. Are they procrastinating because they can't find a suitable replacement?
I know Sousa has been mentioned a lot and he's definitely not the answer. From the names mentioned, Hiddink is the only one I can think of who can take on a caretaker role and actually turn this into a positive, the rest are probably worse than Montella, but at this point what's needed the most is a change over anything else
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 25 2017, 10:15 AM
Donnarumma; Musacchio, Romagnoli, Rodriguez; Calabria, Kessie, Biglia, Borini; Suso, Calhanoglu; Kalinic.
I don't understand why Montella continues with this formation. It's been more than a month, this 3-man defense system clearly isn't working for us. Even in the last two matches he switched to 4 in the back at some point in the game.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 25 2017, 02:10 PM
I don't understand why Montella continues with this formation. It's been more than a month, this 3-man defense system clearly isn't working for us. Even in the last two matches he switched to 4 in the back at some point in the game.
The point is switching formations again, just pegs us back to Square 0, from the Square 0.5 we're at now.
I dont' give a f@ck about the formation. Just win this.
I really don't know if Mirabelli is a good SD anymore. On hindsight this plan of 11 new players seems to have been a disaster with a relatively mid-tier coach. Shame! On paper everything seemed set to work.
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 25 2017, 03:36 PM
This has to be the game that changes our fortunes, or Montella is as good as gone.
Come on lads!
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 25 2017, 04:31 PM
I dont' give a f@ck about the formation. Just win this.
I really don't know if Mirabelli is a good SD anymore. On hindsight this plan of 11 new players seems to have been a disaster with a relatively mid-tier coach. Shame! On paper everything seemed set to work.
What makes you think we're at Square 0.5? We're still at Square 0. Only 1 point in the last 4 games FFS.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 25 2017, 06:34 PM
I'm not sure what to think. We should have already sacked Montella. Today we're most likely get a win and then lose against Juventus the coming weekend. So,...
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 25 2017, 07:33 PM
Not sure at all. Chievo are tough. I see a spirited draw or a defeat.
Posted by: han2503 Oct 25 2017, 08:23 PM
The only way we can score apparently... Through a Suso long shot
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 25 2017, 08:25 PM
Stream?
Posted by: han2503 Oct 25 2017, 08:30 PM
It's so difficult to find decent ones these days, it's why I got an IPTV link. Try rojadirecta or cricfree
2-0
Suso finally plays wide and advanced and he's effective, glad Montella finally figured out the obvious after 5 or so games
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 25 2017, 08:40 PM
They dont work for me, but good to know the team are two up
Posted by: han2503 Oct 25 2017, 08:44 PM
Try this
http://tvsportslive.stream/chievo-vs-milan.html
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 25 2017, 08:48 PM
Yup that works .. thanks
Posted by: han2503 Oct 25 2017, 09:38 PM
Decent game. I think Chievo being so bad played a big part in that, but if nothing else it will be a bit of a boost before we have to face Juve.
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 25 2017, 09:43 PM
Poor Calabria
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 25 2017, 10:40 PM
What happened?
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 26 2017, 06:09 AM
Was very bad, i wish we had lost than watching him collide like that. He got a head/neck traumas after a nasty collision with Gobbi. Please if u havnt seen it, DONT! Nasty.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 26 2017, 08:20 AM
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 26 2017, 08:22 AM
Oh, and Han, one side note. Perhaps in the future we could rename this thread something like "Match thread - Genoa to... [Chievo]". Because simply changing the thread name is like falsifying/missrepresenting archival documents 
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 26 2017, 08:49 AM
I didn't watch the match at all. Just twitter updates. Anyone want to tell me what it is that worked in thsi 3-4-2-1 this time? Besides Suso being on the right and no Bonucci! 
I'm hoping all our bad luck is finally turning. I don't know if it's just over-optimism, but twitter fans have said that we were looking effective but the final thing was not coming together. Today it looks like it did, despite Chievo being set up defensively.
Posted by: han2503 Oct 26 2017, 08:10 PM
Noted
I'm hoping all our bad luck is finally turning. I don't know if it's just over-optimism, but twitter fans have said that we were looking effective but the final thing was not coming together. Today it looks like it did, despite Chievo being set up defensively.
Honestly, I think a major factor was how terrible Chievo were
The other important component was Suso, he was great, and it's no coincidence that this happened after he was moved wide and in a more advanced position. He's simply not effective in retreated or central areas. The defence was ok, they didn't have much to deal with, Kessie being the only player who managed to make a defence splitting pass against his own team. This guy seriously needs to learn how to concentrate, so sloppy
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 27 2017, 10:52 AM
Honestly, I think a major factor was how terrible Chievo were
The other important component was Suso, he was great, and it's no coincidence that this happened after he was moved wide and in a more advanced position. He's simply not effective in retreated or central areas. The defence was ok, they didn't have much to deal with, Kessie being the only player who managed to make a defence splitting pass against his own team. This guy seriously needs to learn how to concentrate, so sloppy
Yes, Kessie's problem is concentration. Sometimes he makes incredibly stupid mistakes. But I don't think his qualities are in question. Espcially now that he's playing less advanced I think he's performing better. Doing his job in midfield without overstepping too much in less comfortable territory for a player of his nature.
And very true about Suso. Play him wide on the left and he can be devastating at times. Play him centrally and he becomes completely ineffective.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 27 2017, 10:55 AM
As for the Juve game, the probable formation according to Mediaset is:
Donnarumma; Zapata, Musacchio, Romagnoli; Borini, Kessie, Biglia, Rodriguez; Suso, Calhanoglu; Kalinic.
Posted by: han2503 Oct 28 2017, 05:10 PM
We look good so far
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 28 2017, 05:25 PM
Wopsy
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 28 2017, 05:36 PM
Why him of all people!! He's been a joke all this season.
Posted by: han2503 Oct 28 2017, 05:39 PM
Isn't it strange that Borini has turned into one of our best players in that WB position
The refereeing is going to screw us over. Foul on Suso not given but Kessie gets a yellow for the subsequent foul. Then Lichtsteiner elbows Borini but they get the free-kick
Posted by: han2503 Oct 28 2017, 05:50 PM
So unlucky! Off the post from Kalinic then cleared when Buffon was on the ground bu Rugani
Should be level in this, we've been the better side overall imo
Posted by: han2503 Oct 28 2017, 07:03 PM
Scratch what I said above, we completely bombed in that second half, Montella not heloing things at all with his changes either.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 28 2017, 07:18 PM
He needs to go, it's that simple.
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 28 2017, 08:12 PM
Juventus are a strong side, Milan played well but lacked the finish imho.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 28 2017, 08:15 PM
And very true about Suso. Play him wide on the left and he can be devastating at times. Play him centrally and he becomes completely ineffective.
He's plain awful man. I get that you're trying to give him more time and perhaps credit. But be realistic man. His problem is concentration?
His problem is inadequacy, inexperience and lack of intelligence. It's much much more then just concentration or consistency.
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 28 2017, 08:18 PM
Naah, man. Milan lost 4 out of 4 derby matches. When did that ever happen the last time? We didn't play well, we created 1 real good chance. Other than that it was much huffing and puffing without any real danger to Juve and without a real game conception. We started strong but again we have these gigantic black wholes were the whole team just gives up collectively, starts pulling back and making lethargic mistakes.
For a squad with such big investments, we played bad.
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Oct 28 2017, 10:13 PM
For a squad with such big investments, we played bad.
But you have to take into consideration that this is a new team. These players need to gel to form a team. That said, they played rather well tonight.
Posted by: d'Arc.LP Oct 29 2017, 09:31 AM
Im with you on this debate. Let's give this team a fight. Apart from Napoli, I think we will win the most of the games left till winter.
Posted by: X-Offender Oct 29 2017, 01:05 PM
How is it possible that Montella hasn’t been sacked yet?
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 29 2017, 03:28 PM
New team or old team. It's near Christmas and this excuse is getting old. I mean the management clearly set a goal: reaching a CL place. Now, this is looking further and further. How long should we wait for the new team to gel?
IMO if everything is right and good a new team can start playing really well and gel in 1-2 months. But Milan clearly has burning issues that go beyond that.
How can you say this? What makes you think we're gonna win? The 4 matches in a row we haven't scored in a home match? The way Montella shifts back and forth with tactics and players? Naah, man. It's much more plausible that by the time the new year comes in, we'll be even further apart from our initial goal.
I think our management once again didn't prepare. The simply don't have the alternative coach in sight.
Posted by: han2503 Oct 29 2017, 05:11 PM
Yes, they obviously never had a plan B should Montella fail, but to be completely fair with them, there weren't any good coaches available during the summer to pick from, and the only one available now said he won't coach any other side this season. And I also have a feeling that Carlo is waiting out Ventura to fall even flatter on his @ss than he's already doing so he can take that Azzurri job (which he's always been very clear about wanting)
Posted by: milanbuf88 Oct 29 2017, 05:55 PM
The team isn't playing well but this is hyperbolic. It's not even November let alone Christmas.
Posted by: Jack Sparrow Oct 30 2017, 01:15 PM
I think we've been playing better the past few matches. The two goals Juve scored were sheer individual quality. While our goals didn't go in because of a 'lack of individual quality'.
I think we should wait till the end of November before pulling the trigger on Montella. There are no coaches available who I want anyway and one month is enough time for a new coach to take a look at things and plan a market.
Suddenly not landing a winger and striker seems to have hurt us hard
I hope we can land 12 out of the next 15 points though.
Posted by: d'Arc.LP Oct 30 2017, 02:13 PM
I think we should wait till the end of November before pulling the trigger on Montella. There are no coaches available who I want anyway and one month is enough time for a new coach to take a look at things and plan a market.
Suddenly not landing a winger and striker seems to have hurt us hard
I hope we can land 12 out of the next 15 points though.
+1
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Oct 30 2017, 05:30 PM
I think we should wait till the end of November before pulling the trigger on Montella. There are no coaches available who I want anyway and one month is enough time for a new coach to take a look at things and plan a market.
Suddenly not landing a winger and striker seems to have hurt us hard
I hope we can land 12 out of the next 15 points though.
Yes? Well, if by better you mean not scoring a single goal in the past 4 home matches, sure, we've been playing swell.
And no, I really don't think it's that simple. What goals actually didn't go in? The one chance Kalinić had? Oh, it's too little.
Can honestly nobody see our team for what it actually is? I'm sorry if I am too pessimistic after years of piling up defeats. But I don't see much progress. At this rate the team will "get to know each other" and "gel" in November 2018, when some of the players will already be sold.
Montella had plenty of time figuring out which tactics to use and which positions best suit the players. Yes, our unwise transfer campaign really ended up in our face and this is perhaps why the board is reluctant to fire Montella, but I really don't see us improving and catching up at this rate.
Posted by: X-Offender Nov 1 2017, 07:35 PM
And no, I really don't think it's that simple. What goals actually didn't go in? The one chance Kalinić had? Oh, it's too little.
Can honestly nobody see our team for what it actually is? I'm sorry if I am too pessimistic after years of piling up defeats. But I don't see much progress. At this rate the team will "get to know each other" and "gel" in November 2018, when some of the players will already be sold.
Montella had plenty of time figuring out which tactics to use and which positions best suit the players. Yes, our unwise transfer campaign really ended up in our face and this is perhaps why the board is reluctant to fire Montella, but I really don't see us improving and catching up at this rate.
+1
Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 3 2017, 09:20 AM
Another pathetic performance against a much weaker opponent (AEK), with only one real chance created. Yes, we're definitively getting better.
Posted by: han2503 Nov 4 2017, 08:03 AM
Gazzetta saying Sassuolo is do or die for Montella. Gattuso being prime candidate to replace him...
Another season completely down the drain
Posted by: Rossoneri7 Nov 4 2017, 11:11 AM
In 2006-2007 season, when Milan lost to AEK in the group stages Don Carlo stated to the press; Athene was only to take the measurements of the pitch that we are going to play the final on.
But this time around we drew and didn't lose so ..
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