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Locke Lamora
post Apr 4 2011, 02:45 PM
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QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Apr 4 2011, 07:23 AM) *
Why would I support a ruler of a different country? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)


I have no idea, that's why I asked...
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Rossoneri7
post Apr 4 2011, 11:12 PM
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QUOTE (Locke Lamora @ Apr 4 2011, 04:45 PM) *
I have no idea, that's why I asked...


And did I ask for your opinion ?

This post has been edited by Rossoneri7: Apr 4 2011, 11:13 PM
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Locke Lamora
post Apr 4 2011, 11:16 PM
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QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Apr 5 2011, 12:12 AM) *
And did I ask for your opinion ?


Apart from the fact that I wasn't giving you my 'opinion' (incidentally, I asked you about yours)... you do realise this is a forum, right? Opnions are kinda sorta the name of the game here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/innocent.gif)
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Zed.D
post Apr 5 2011, 10:25 AM
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Take it easy dudes.
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Rossoneri7
post Apr 5 2011, 01:38 PM
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Just for the record, I have been debating you over issues involving the Arab world on many occasions, and your views are always skewed to your perceptions and your insights on THE matters for which I have been living with on a day to day basis. You have a right to your opinion, as I do my own, so to make things clear from where I stand here's my last 2 cents and you can make whatever you want of it.

I do not share allegiance with a Libyan/Egyptian leader .. Just for your reference then, the reason I dislike Mubarak/Qaddafi is the fact that they are not patriotic to their respective countries. The majority of the Arab world's modern day rulers are no different, yet the US-Allied coalition support them blindly until they expire, as what happened. This is a FACT that we in the Arab world have to endure, not necessarily something you need to agree on. There are tones of articles & statistical figures furnished on Amnesty International & the Human Rights Watch which shed light on the miss conduct of those two regimes for 30 years now. Did they just turn into bad guys over night?

There are millions in this region and they are all created from flesh & blood just like you, they all have ambitions and they all have dignity .. Yet, the mainstream media suppress this and it is easy to manipulate the masses of onlookers who do not have first hand exposure to the Arab world. Of course this was further supported by the weakness of Arab countries due to a 'divide & conquer' policy which was a direct result of our colonization.

And if you think that after the dust settles in, there will be a brighter future for Libya/Tunisia/Egypt? Then you have to understand one thing .. presidents/rulers/monarchs are appointed first by the blessings of those who have a direct/indirect interest in this region's strategic resources, this being said you have a lot of double-standards in the US-Allied coalition's foreign policy.

No? OK, why did the US-Allied coalition back a Saudi army to enter Bahrain and tame protesters, something the mainstream media seemed to miss out on, while pointing fingers and bombarding Egypt/Libya ?

My background, to better understand why I perceive matters as highlighted above:
Finally a brief background on my native Kuwait; a tiny democratic country with a parliament and whose members are elected by the people, with a constitution formally approved by the Emir of Kuwait dated Jan-1963. The same was drafted by the British, who dictated Kuwait's foreign policy from the time of signing an agreement in 1899 which pledged Kuwait's foreign affairs to be dealt strictly with British consent.

The reason for the democracy that was instilled was due to the circumstances of the time, where there were rising tensions across the Arab world, post the 'Balfour Declaration' .. At a time where the Nasserism movement against the imperialists who colonized North Africa and the Middle East. Hence democracy was drafted by the British Protectorate, under HH the Queen, in order to maintain stability in an oil producing nation (which represents 3rd largest exporter of oil under OPEC) and not to cause a revolt against the ruling family who have 'signed agreements' of commitment/safety/understanding with the British.

The success of the same was later implemented in other British protectorates within the Arabian Gulf States through semi-democratic councils, such as in Saudi Arabia's 'Consultative Assembly of Saudi Arabia' .. With the rest of the Arabian Gulf States following in a similar mold.

With that said, let it be noted that if the US-Allied coalition instructed the Arabian Gulf States rulers to stick their thumbs up their asses, rest assured that is what will happen.

In closing .. History is the mother of all teachers, a little research from unbiased sources can portray a better picture of the time-line of events since the establishment of the Ottoman Empire to-date; depicting the history of this region, its people and the geo-political changes that have occurred. As an onlooker, it is easy to be manipulated to think; Muslims=Barbarians=Arabs=Terrorists=Justified Extermination. Which will indefinitely add credibility to any form of foreign-intervention into the region.


P.S. My intention is not to point fingers, but to portray the actual consensus from the heart of the Arab world. And to each his own opinion thereof.
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Fillipo Simone
post Apr 5 2011, 05:14 PM
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Great post R7, nothing to add really from my perspective.
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Jack Sparrow
post Apr 5 2011, 07:14 PM
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That guy R7...some dude huh?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif) I taught him everything he knows. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)
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Locke Lamora
post Apr 5 2011, 07:25 PM
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QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Apr 5 2011, 02:38 PM) *
Just for the record, I have been debating you over issues involving the Arab world on many occasions, and your views are always skewed to your perceptions and your insights on THE matters for which I have been living with on a day to day basis. You have a right to your opinion, as I do my own, so to make things clear from where I stand here's my last 2 cents and you can make whatever you want of it.

I do not share allegiance with a Libyan/Egyptian leader .. Just for your reference then, the reason I dislike Mubarak/Qaddafi is the fact that they are not patriotic to their respective countries. The majority of the Arab world's modern day rulers are no different, yet the US-Allied coalition support them blindly until they expire, as what happened. This is a FACT that we in the Arab world have to endure, not necessarily something you need to agree on. There are tones of articles & statistical figures furnished on Amnesty International & the Human Rights Watch which shed light on the miss conduct of those two regimes for 30 years now. Did they just turn into bad guys over night?

There are millions in this region and they are all created from flesh & blood just like you, they all have ambitions and they all have dignity .. Yet, the mainstream media suppress this and it is easy to manipulate the masses of onlookers who do not have first hand exposure to the Arab world. Of course this was further supported by the weakness of Arab countries due to a 'divide & conquer' policy which was a direct result of our colonization.

And if you think that after the dust settles in, there will be a brighter future for Libya/Tunisia/Egypt? Then you have to understand one thing .. presidents/rulers/monarchs are appointed first by the blessings of those who have a direct/indirect interest in this region's strategic resources, this being said you have a lot of double-standards in the US-Allied coalition's foreign policy.

No? OK, why did the US-Allied coalition back a Saudi army to enter Bahrain and tame protesters, something the mainstream media seemed to miss out on, while pointing fingers and bombarding Egypt/Libya ?

My background, to better understand why I perceive matters as highlighted above:
Finally a brief background on my native Kuwait; a tiny democratic country with a parliament and whose members are elected by the people, with a constitution formally approved by the Emir of Kuwait dated Jan-1963. The same was drafted by the British, who dictated Kuwait's foreign policy from the time of signing an agreement in 1899 which pledged Kuwait's foreign affairs to be dealt strictly with British consent.

The reason for the democracy that was instilled was due to the circumstances of the time, where there were rising tensions across the Arab world, post the 'Balfour Declaration' .. At a time where the Nasserism movement against the imperialists who colonized North Africa and the Middle East. Hence democracy was drafted by the British Protectorate, under HH the Queen, in order to maintain stability in an oil producing nation (which represents 3rd largest exporter of oil under OPEC) and not to cause a revolt against the ruling family who have 'signed agreements' of commitment/safety/understanding with the British.

The success of the same was later implemented in other British protectorates within the Arabian Gulf States through semi-democratic councils, such as in Saudi Arabia's 'Consultative Assembly of Saudi Arabia' .. With the rest of the Arabian Gulf States following in a similar mold.

With that said, let it be noted that if the US-Allied coalition instructed the Arabian Gulf States rulers to stick their thumbs up their asses, rest assured that is what will happen.

In closing .. History is the mother of all teachers, a little research from unbiased sources can portray a better picture of the time-line of events since the establishment of the Ottoman Empire to-date; depicting the history of this region, its people and the geo-political changes that have occurred. As an onlooker, it is easy to be manipulated to think; Muslims=Barbarians=Arabs=Terrorists=Justified Extermination. Which will indefinitely add credibility to any form of foreign-intervention into the region.


P.S. My intention is not to point fingers, but to portray the actual consensus from the heart of the Arab world. And to each his own opinion thereof.


Funny thing is, I actually agree with most of what you're saying. But you've obviously made up your mind about how I think about everything already, so I see no point trying to respond. Let's just say I'm not a big fan of holier-than-thou attitudes and the sort of caricatured, nonsensical smears like the "equation" at the end of your post (bolded).
If you are seriously saying that's what "we" think, then the discussion ends right there.

But I do applaud you on managing, in a post about the Middle East spanning 41 lines, not to even mention the fact that your own country would be a part of Iraq right now if it wasn't for the cynical, opportunist, oppressive double moralists that is the USA.
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Jack Sparrow
post Apr 5 2011, 07:33 PM
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QUOTE (Locke Lamora @ Apr 5 2011, 11:55 PM) *
Funny thing is, I actually agree with most of what you're saying. But you've obviously made up your mind about how I think about everything already, so I see no point trying to respond. Let's just say I'm not a big fan of holier-than-thou attitudes and the sort of caricatured, nonsensical smears like the "equation" at the end of your post (bolded).
If you are seriously saying that's what "we" think, then the discussion ends right there.

But I do applaud you on managing, in a post about the Middle East spanning 41 lines, not to even mention the fact that your own country would be a part of Iraq right now if it wasn't for the cynical, opportunist, oppressive double moralists that is the USA.


Hmm.... you actually believe that the US was just looking out for the forces of liberty etc etc.? Really?
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servbot
post Apr 5 2011, 07:36 PM
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QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Apr 5 2011, 07:38 AM) *
History is the mother of all teachers


Well said.
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Locke Lamora
post Apr 5 2011, 07:43 PM
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No, of course they were looking to expand their evil empire (all orchestrated by the vile Zionists, of course) and steal all their oil, just as they did in East Timor and the Balkans... makes perfect sense doesn't it? Except that you still have all your work still ahead of you in actually proving any of this, let alone make it sound convincing to those of us who don't subscribe to Michael Moore for how to view the world.

All this seemingly stems from the notion that America, or any other NATO country, can never be a moral agent, ever. I take it you would have seen 'ulterior motives' if they had intervened to stop the massacres in Sudan and Rwanda as well?
Anyways, do you think Kuwait and people like Rossoneri7 would have been better off under the Hussein regime? Do tell.
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Jack Sparrow
post Apr 5 2011, 07:55 PM
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If you're propounding the lesser of two evils viewpoint, I agree with you. But that's enough. This is the Serie A thread. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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dst
post Apr 6 2011, 02:16 AM
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Relax Jack, R7 is obviously on topic...

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Apr 5 2011, 03:38 PM) *
The same was drafted by the British, who dictated Kuwait's foreign policy from the time of signing an agreement in 1899 which pledged Kuwait's foreign affairs to be dealt strictly with British consent.

See? 1899... R7 is obviously talking about Milan's founding and how it's a Muslim team... and what Locke says is that everyone related to Milan must die.

Saved you some reading, you're welcome.
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KillerMax
post Apr 6 2011, 03:54 AM
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QUOTE (dst @ Apr 5 2011, 08:16 PM) *
Relax Jack, R7 is obviously on topic...


See? 1899... R7 is obviously talking about Milan's founding and how it's a Muslim team... and what Locke says is that everyone related to Milan must die.

Saved you some reading, you're welcome.


This post makes your @ss look fat.

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dst
post Apr 6 2011, 03:56 AM
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QUOTE (KillerMax @ Apr 6 2011, 05:54 AM) *
This post makes your @ss look fat.

You like it that way?
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