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> Abolition of the home nations.

 
Danny
post Aug 15 2012, 02:35 PM
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Relating to Britain, I wrote a piece on my blog which, for once, is not related to Rangers, but to a controversial notion which I am starting to feel quite strongly about.

http://bit.ly/MywAV8

I'd be interested in the views of all of you, not just the resident fellow Brits on this.
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amancik
post Aug 15 2012, 03:30 PM
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Wait Danny, is this what I think it is? Are you saying that they should scrap international football for England, Wales, Ireland etc altogether?

It's a bit radical and dramatic don't you think? I understand perfectly what you wrote but come on there are plenty of things they can do to improve their performances.

This post has been edited by amancik: Aug 15 2012, 03:30 PM
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Danny
post Aug 15 2012, 03:52 PM
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QUOTE (amancik @ Aug 15 2012, 03:30 PM) *
Wait Danny, is this what I think it is? Are you saying that they should scrap international football for England, Wales, Ireland etc altogether?

It's a bit radical and dramatic don't you think? I understand perfectly what you wrote but come on there are plenty of things they can do to improve their performances.


Well it's a bit odd our athletes can perform so well yet our footballers disappoint, decade after decade.

And you're right, there probably are ways to improve, but none will be implemented. Hence further disappointment.

I've given up. I don't care any more about Scotland (albeit it's not helped by the anti-Rangers agenda within the SFA and SPL) and England are constantly frustrating their supporters.

How can players like Terry, Cole and Lampard produce nothing for England yet win the CL for Chelsea? Similarly Hart, Lescott, Richards, Barry etc.

Club football is thriving - international football, in the British Isles, is dying, year after year.
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kurtsimonw
post Aug 15 2012, 04:28 PM
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I think the Team GB criticism was a little harsh. Let's be honest, we picked a half strength team. Giggs, Bellamy and Richards as the over-23s says as much. We were missing players like Bale, Carroll, Ox and Walcott - could you imagine if we had Rooney and 2 other real over-23 stars as well? The GB team was just a novelty that wasn't taken seriously.

As an England fan I will always have the hope that we can overacheive and win something in the future. Just look at Euro 96, we arguably weren't even in the top 20 in the World at the time - yet we were a penalty kick away from the Final. It does seem the FA is finally waking up, removing the reserve league and replacing it with an Under-23 league will help at least a little and more input at trying to bring through younger players properly.

I could be wrong, but I think some people get a little greedy. I know a few who always get pissed off with England and say they don't support them - these people happen to be fans of United and Liverpool. They are used to winning on some level and the same could be said of you and Rangers. As a Villa fan who can barely reember seeing us lift a single trophy, I don't care that England don't win. I'm happy with QFs just like I'm happy with Europa League with Villa - to me that's both acheiving at a high level.

One thing I do agree with is that club football here seems to be far bigger than International football. I think if we did stop playing Internationally, a large number wouldn't even notice or care.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Aug 15 2012, 04:29 PM
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Danny
post Aug 17 2012, 02:31 PM
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QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Aug 15 2012, 04:28 PM) *
I think the Team GB criticism was a little harsh. Let's be honest, we picked a half strength team. Giggs, Bellamy and Richards as the over-23s says as much. We were missing players like Bale, Carroll, Ox and Walcott - could you imagine if we had Rooney and 2 other real over-23 stars as well? The GB team was just a novelty that wasn't taken seriously.


Reasonable points - but it was taken seriously. It was just messed up hugely. Because Pearce was the manager. But it doesn't weaken the point that with the likes of Ramsey, Bellamy, Giggs, Richards, Sturridge and Cleverley you might have expected a bit more than what it achieved.

QUOTE
As an England fan I will always have the hope that we can overacheive and win something in the future. Just look at Euro 96, we arguably weren't even in the top 20 in the World at the time - yet we were a penalty kick away from the Final. It does seem the FA is finally waking up, removing the reserve league and replacing it with an Under-23 league will help at least a little and more input at trying to bring through younger players properly.

I could be wrong, but I think some people get a little greedy. I know a few who always get pissed off with England and say they don't support them - these people happen to be fans of United and Liverpool. They are used to winning on some level and the same could be said of you and Rangers. As a Villa fan who can barely reember seeing us lift a single trophy, I don't care that England don't win. I'm happy with QFs just like I'm happy with Europa League with Villa - to me that's both acheiving at a high level.


I think the issue with England is less what they achieve, and more what players like Lampard, Terry, Rooney, Gerrard etc should achieve. That's some pretty good players there but they looked out of their depth against the supposedly weaker-league Serie-A based Italians.

QUOTE
One thing I do agree with is that club football here seems to be far bigger than International football. I think if we did stop playing Internationally, a large number wouldn't even notice or care.


Club football is pretty much the life of about 99% of Brits.
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post Aug 17 2012, 03:04 PM
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England underachieve to a lot of people whom believe everything they read in the press, every single tournament. To a lot though they still do about what we expect them to do to be honest, though these people will be accused of being pessimistic, as opposed to realistic.

The fact is we're no where near as gifted as other nations on an international circuit. We should be grateful for having arguably now the best league in the world and getting to see top-class football for 9 months every year. If that means dwindling around with international football tournaments every other year so be it, it's kind of a small price to pay.
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kurtsimonw
post Aug 17 2012, 03:50 PM
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I think that's a pretty good point.
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Fillipo Simone
post Aug 17 2012, 03:53 PM
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IMO a big problem is that since Robson and Ferguson, there hasn't been a single inspired British coach. A second problem I see is the lack of defensive quality. Who's the last really good keeper England had?
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kurtsimonw
post Aug 17 2012, 03:59 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Aug 17 2012, 03:53 PM) *
IMO a big problem is that since Robson and Ferguson, there hasn't been a single inspired British coach. A second problem I see is the lack of defensive quality. Who's the last really good keeper England had?

Joe Hart. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Probably Seaman was the last real standout. It's sad, we now have Butland in squads who's never even played in the top 2 divisions of football. Years ago we had genuine quality keepers like Flowers and Maryn who could barely get in an England squad.
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Danny
post Aug 17 2012, 04:12 PM
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I just want to add that Joe Hart is the best player in the England squad.

Best goalkeeper in the EPL, and one of the best 4 or 5 around, alongside Cesar, Casillas, Buffon.
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Danny
post Aug 17 2012, 04:15 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Aug 17 2012, 03:53 PM) *
IMO a big problem is that since Robson and Ferguson, there hasn't been a single inspired British coach.


You don't think, other than Bobby Robson and SAF, that in the last 22 years, there's been a single really exceptional British coach?

Walter Smith? Terry Venables? Martin O'Neill?

QUOTE
A second problem I see is the lack of defensive quality.


Don't agree on this either. Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Lescott, King, Neville - in the past decade there's been plenty world class defenders in the England team. They just never work well as a team.

QUOTE
who's the last really good keeper England had?


Out with Mr Hart, Seaman.
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Jack Sparrow
post Aug 17 2012, 04:32 PM
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You DID NOT just say Martin O Neill to kurt!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)
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kurtsimonw
post Aug 17 2012, 04:52 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Aug 17 2012, 04:15 PM) *
Don't agree on this either. Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Lescott, King, Neville - in the past decade there's been plenty world class defenders in the England team. They just never work well as a team.

Agreed.

I'd go as far as saying no team in World football had centre midfielders of the quality of Lampard and Gerrard for the past decade. Even Xavi and Iniesta have really only shone for 6/7 now, problem is that in the middle of the pitch for some reason they just didn't work.

I also don't buy into the oddly common notion that some of our stars don't care about playing for England. Right, so they waste their summers travelling the World to try and not win the World Cup? Riiight.

As for MON, he made his choice. He's Irish, not British. And a prick. Very good coach though.

This post has been edited by kurtsimonw: Aug 17 2012, 04:52 PM
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Danny
post Aug 17 2012, 05:05 PM
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QUOTE (kurtsimonw @ Aug 17 2012, 04:52 PM) *
Agreed.

I'd go as far as saying no team in World football had centre midfielders of the quality of Lampard and Gerrard for the past decade. Even Xavi and Iniesta have really only shone for 6/7 now, problem is that in the middle of the pitch for some reason they just didn't work.

I also don't buy into the oddly common notion that some of our stars don't care about playing for England. Right, so they waste their summers travelling the World to try and not win the World Cup? Riiight.

As for MON, he made his choice. He's Irish, not British. And a prick. Very good coach though.


Norn Iron's part of Britain dear sir.
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Fillipo Simone
post Aug 17 2012, 05:17 PM
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So you named 3 more + the one I mentioned = 5. Wow! 5 exemptional coaches in 22 years. That's...well, not so good. Did any of them achieve on the Continent expect Robson and Venables? And what have they done so remarkable?

Italy had 10 or more world class coaches in the past 10 years, all lined up one after another, making successful jobs both at home and away - England, Germany, France, Spain...you name it.

As for the defenders, I really think only Cole, Terry and Ferdinand go in the "world class" league. But unfortunately, injuries, bad luck, the media pressure, bad coaches and of course some hyped players made an English success very hard.
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