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X-Offender
post Jul 31 2014, 06:36 PM
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QUOTE (Jack Sparrow @ Jul 31 2014, 02:27 PM) *
I think another point with loans is also a safety measure. These guys are talents, not proven. So even if they flop you've lost only the wages. Whereas you would have paid quite a large amount in today's inflated market for 'talent', consider Iturbe for example.


+1
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Bluesummers
post Jul 31 2014, 08:07 PM
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According to Corriere Dello Sport, Milan won't even reach 20,000 season tickets sold this year.


And that's the beginning of the end for galliani folks.

Nothing says we want change louder than that.



In other news athlet Madrid willing to offer 20m for cerci.

Milan channel says we're not interested in ayew
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X-Offender
post Jul 31 2014, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (Bluesummers @ Jul 31 2014, 08:07 PM) *
According to Corriere Dello Sport, Milan won't even reach 20,000 season tickets sold this year.


Serves them right.

QUOTE (Bluesummers @ Jul 31 2014, 08:07 PM) *
In other news athlet Madrid willing to offer 20m for cerci.


Didn't they just sign Griezmann?
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Bluesummers
post Jul 31 2014, 10:13 PM
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Yup but griezman is LW
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kurtsimonw
post Jul 31 2014, 10:31 PM
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QUOTE (X-Offender @ Jul 31 2014, 10:42 PM) *
Didn't they just sign Griezmann?

Griezmann plays on the left. They're probably gonna change system, didn't really have wingers last season.
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dst
post Aug 1 2014, 10:42 AM
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QUOTE (Bluesummers @ Jul 31 2014, 10:07 PM) *
According to Corriere Dello Sport, Milan won't even reach 20,000 season tickets sold this year.


And that's the beginning of the end for galliani folks.

Nothing says we want change louder than that.

How are there even 10,000 people who are willing to reward total mismanagement and pay in advance to watch this team?
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Rossoneri7
post Aug 1 2014, 10:53 AM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Jul 29 2014, 01:38 PM) *
Now I get your stance better, thank you very much for answering.

I think you're a bit too fatalistic and deterministic. It seems like you have a fix vision on our position and exclude any possibility of changes.

Changes can happen. Look at the Bundesliga in 1993 and in 2013. Twenty years and plenty of it changed. Granted, it was a complicated process that made this possible, but I'm sure Italy could pull it through.

Now as I see it, Galliani is one of the men blocking this change. Not only on Milan level: no, breaking news is that Galliani cast his support for Tavecchio (Footbal Italia)! And there we have everything in one story: another clash with a Milan legend (like numerous misunderstandings with Maldini, Zee, etc.) and yet another move that blocks the sole prospect of change.

Gallini is a man who's fighting against the future and against the sole facts of change. By choosing this position he's sentenced to failure and to be disliked.

Back to Milan. You're being fatalistic, I think. We are a great club, we were a respectful club when Berlusconi took over, but he made us top top. But we have history, trophies and a good name in Italy which still could, under shrewd, intelligent, planned and with fresh ideas, attract much more then we do by now. History is powerful, there are still players like Giuseppe Rossi who dream of the Shevchenko Milan, and we could capitalize on that. But, like Han said, we rather go for freebies like Essien and Muntari, all because Galliani thinks he's a genius who sings rejects for free and turns them back into stars.

Milan today is very alike the Farina Milan. When Berlusconi took over from Farina (who ended up in exile), he splashed cash, he invented new economical mechanisms, new marketing strategies, new ways of popularization. Sure, much changed now, I'm not asking for the same. I'm just asking for change, for a fresh new and hungry management who won't be obsessed with the status quo and fighting the inevitable future, but rather drawing up a plan how to become great again.

Because it's not all black and white. With a smarter management, a smarter choice in coaching staff and signings, we could still achieve something, hell win something. I don't say we could become United, but we could do considerably better.



Not looking at the numbers, I'd agree with every word you said there mate. As it is the sentiments that spur us to believe that this can not be our Milan - Milan the great club. Its not about being fatalistic nor deterministic; it is portraying what our financial capabilities are. This, not to get our hopes up nor to look too high into the sky.

Your example of the Bundesliga in the 90's (or the EPL in the 80's) is correct; those leagues took time to get where they are today. And that is what we need to keep in mind; time.

History will not help us acquire players, maybe the players have a soft spot for the 'Shevchenko Milan', but that Milan is no longer here nor is the fat contracts Berlsuconi gave out to maintain such a side. History did not help us keep Zlatan and Thiago, nor did it deter new-money Chelsea's chase for their Shevchenko. We have a RICH history, one that makes me proud having enjoyed several magical nights, but unfortunately history is only good for stories.

Where we can go from here? Two alternatives; (i) Silvio sells the club to a rich 'sovereign', who have the capabilities to provide us with massive sponsorship deals like Qatar or UAE. Or sell to an American/Russian with their own synergies and sponsorships alike. (ii) Take the long painful road we are on today.

I have this conviction Silvio has Milan up for sale (not publicly, but through private means). It is only a matter of receiving the right valuation for the club. I say this because if I was Silvio, I would sell - Knowing that I am not allowed to fund the players I want, nor is my club self-sustaining.

P.S. Our youth academy. That takes time, its been 6-years since the club started to invest circa 2008. Is 6 years enough for us to pass judgment? Food for thought, noting this is where we look to rebuild and not the market.

P.S.2 On the Galliani - Tavecchio vote of confidence; politics is dirty. I'd 'assume' Albertini being a Milan boy and all, he has an understanding with Milan and Galliani alike. However, assuming Tavecchio wins, Milan do not want to be on his bad side. Hence Galliani's comments. Since when do you take Galliani's words as that derived from the gospel? We all know what 99.9999% means in his language, don't we (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Danny
post Aug 1 2014, 11:39 AM
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QUOTE (dst @ Aug 1 2014, 09:42 AM) *
How are there even 10,000 people who are willing to reward total mismanagement and pay in advance to watch this team?


It's called supporting your team through thick and thin.

People forget what a season ticket is for - you're not paying Berlu/Galliani or anyone else. Not any more than you were when Sacchi was boss.

A season ticket is the right to sit in whatever Curva you like 19 times a season and watch your team. It's the right to support them, and watch them. THAT'S IT. It's not an endorsement or otherwise to anyone who runs the club - just your own ticket to watch Milan.

Yes, Milan are a total mess, but being a Rangers fan I know only too well the politics behind season tickets. In Milan's case the loss of ST holders isn't as financially damaging as it is to Rangers (althought this season without Europe it has more impact than it normally would), but it certainly is to the image of the club.

I applaud those Rossoneri who have shelled out however many Euros to watch their team, and for any fan who doesn't have a season ticket it's not really your place to judge those who do.
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Fillipo Simone
post Aug 1 2014, 11:41 AM
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QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Aug 1 2014, 12:53 PM) *
Not looking at the numbers, I'd agree with every word you said there mate. As it is the sentiments that spur us to believe that this can not be our Milan - Milan the great club. Its not about being fatalistic nor deterministic; it is portraying what our financial capabilities are. This, not to get our hopes up nor to look too high into the sky.

I think in order to be a great club you must have high hopes and look to the sky. Berlusconi would be the first person to tell you that. Because, if you assume that shy position you advocate, you lose grit, you lose face and ultimately your status. My point is: I get we're in a dire financial situation, but IMO the management can and must do a better job, i.e. with a better management we'd be in a better place.

QUOTE
History will not help us acquire players, maybe the players have a soft spot for the 'Shevchenko Milan', but that Milan is no longer here nor is the fat contracts Berlsuconi gave out to maintain such a side. History did not help us keep Zlatan and Thiago, nor did it deter new-money Chelsea's chase for their Shevchenko. We have a RICH history, one that makes me proud having enjoyed several magical nights, but unfortunately history is only good for stories.

No, I don't believe in this. History did not intervene in those examples, but as long as there are kids who once trained football and watched the likes of Thiago, Sheva, Inzaghi, Rino or Cafu play with us, there will be stories and there will be fans. Money will maybe lead them to another destination, but they'll keep the desire to play for Milan. This is why Thiago Silva plays with a Milan logo on his shield.

QUOTE
Where we can go from here? Two alternatives; (i) Silvio sells the club to a rich 'sovereign', who have the capabilities to provide us with massive sponsorship deals like Qatar or UAE. Or sell to an American/Russian with their own synergies and sponsorships alike. (ii) Take the long painful road we are on today.

I don't get the ii example. We're reaching new lows day by day? How can this be a valid option? (Btw. alternative comes from Latin, and there can be only one alternative, not two or more (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )

QUOTE
I have this conviction Silvio has Milan up for sale (not publicly, but through private means). It is only a matter of receiving the right valuation for the club. I say this because if I was Silvio, I would sell - Knowing that I am not allowed to fund the players I want, nor is my club self-sustaining.

Yes, but it has to happen soon. We've surpassed the stage of erosion and entered a new stage of rapid decline. I'm not speaking about money, not even footballing results. But on a moral level and a human level it getting harder and harder to be for Milan.

QUOTE
P.S. Our youth academy. That takes time, its been 6-years since the club started to invest circa 2008. Is 6 years enough for us to pass judgment? Food for thought, noting this is where we look to rebuild and not the market.

I hope so. I really do.

QUOTE
P.S.2 On the Galliani - Tavecchio vote of confidence; politics is dirty. I'd 'assume' Albertini being a Milan boy and all, he has an understanding with Milan and Galliani alike. However, assuming Tavecchio wins, Milan do not want to be on his bad side. Hence Galliani's comments. Since when do you take Galliani's words as that derived from the gospel? We all know what 99.9999% means in his language, don't we (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But this goes beyond spins and lies. This is a moral thing. You side with a blatant racist, this stigmatizes you and the whole club. If it's a Galliani spin, he only ads fuel to the fire - and opens himself to another round of critics.
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han2503
post Aug 1 2014, 12:33 PM
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QUOTE (Danny @ Aug 1 2014, 11:39 AM) *
It's called supporting your team through thick and thin.

People forget what a season ticket is for - you're not paying Berlu/Galliani or anyone else. Not any more than you were when Sacchi was boss.

A season ticket is the right to sit in whatever Curva you like 19 times a season and watch your team. It's the right to support them, and watch them. THAT'S IT. It's not an endorsement or otherwise to anyone who runs the club - just your own ticket to watch Milan.

Yes, Milan are a total mess, but being a Rangers fan I know only too well the politics behind season tickets. In Milan's case the loss of ST holders isn't as financially damaging as it is to Rangers (althought this season without Europe it has more impact than it normally would), but it certainly is to the image of the club.

I applaud those Rossoneri who have shelled out however many Euros to watch their team, and for any fan who doesn't have a season ticket it's not really your place to judge those who do.

Still, for a club like Milan, this is the only way the fans can protest against Galliani, the only way they can really show him displeasure to the way he's running the club. And in a season like this, so few season ticket sales will hit the club even worse financially, as you rightfully pointed out. And of course it hurts Galliani and Berlu, less revenues means even worse losses which is something they're desperately trying to avoid.
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han2503
post Aug 1 2014, 12:46 PM
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This mercato is probably even more depressing than last summer if that is even possible. Now we're linked to Biabiany... Kill me now!
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Rossoneri7
post Aug 1 2014, 01:08 PM
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QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Aug 1 2014, 02:41 PM) *
I think in order to be a great club you must have high hopes and look to the sky. Berlusconi would be the first person to tell you that. Because, if you assume that shy position you advocate, you lose grit, you lose face and ultimately your status. My point is: I get we're in a dire financial situation, but IMO the management can and must do a better job, i.e. with a better management we'd be in a better place.


To be a great club nowadays is no longer a mater of prestige and status, it requires only $$$, sadly. Milan, just like most Serie A teams runs at a loss. Throw FFP into the mix, and we have no right to look to the sky. Berlusconi looked to the sky and made us look up with him, when he would finance the gaps in Milan and finance the fat contracts that made up our great team. Yeah we had a right to look at the market and say we want Ronaldinho or Xavi. Nowadays, we have no business looking that far up. Not even moderately up, as now we have to sell before we buy. Now we have a wage capped at 4M, no more.

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Aug 1 2014, 02:41 PM) *
No, I don't believe in this. History did not intervene in those examples, but as long as there are kids who once trained football and watched the likes of Thiago, Sheva, Inzaghi, Rino or Cafu play with us, there will be stories and there will be fans. Money will maybe lead them to another destination, but they'll keep the desire to play for Milan. This is why Thiago Silva plays with a Milan logo on his shield.


This is the thing, money will definitely lead them elsewhere. Those kids that used to watch Cafu, Maldini, Shevchenko and the likes are already in their 25+ and are currently playing at professional (some rich) clubs. This is all sentiment based, and can only be aligned with Balotelli as a prime example of a Milanfan/player. Yet is Balotelli a prime example of players we would like to attract? Or Muntari? Or Montolivo for that matter?

Talking about the 'desire' to play for Milan is one thing, but in a materialistic world I think that desire no longer is there. Giggs played for as little as GBP 8K a week in the 90s. Fast forward today and how much is Bale making per week? Giggs is a player who lives and breaths United.

I remember when Maldini was tempted to go to Madrid. A time where Milan had a stellar side and Berlusconi's funding was on full-throttle. Maldini didn't go to Madrid. Fast-forward to today and you have Thiago going to PSG, Kaka going to Madrid, etc.

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Aug 1 2014, 02:41 PM) *
I don't get the ii example. We're reaching new lows day by day? How can this be a valid option? (Btw. alternative comes from Latin, and there can be only one alternative, not two or more (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )


This is the thing, I shall reiterate again ‘time’. Either we sit here, like we do, everyday complaining and pointing fingers at ‘obvious’ figures at the club. Or we sit down and understand that a restructuring actually takes this long because it depends on (i) our youth taking the next step up (ii) the market opening up options for us (ie Balotelli). Two components that we, unfortunately, do not have control over.

Unfortunately, it seems we react to day to day lows. We take action by assaulting the 'obvious' figures at the club for the lows and take refuge in the 'Grande Milan'. We ignore all the figures that depict us as a club heavily under financial pressures.

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Aug 1 2014, 02:41 PM) *
Yes, but it has to happen soon. We've surpassed the stage of erosion and entered a new stage of rapid decline. I'm not speaking about money, not even footballing results. But on a moral level and a human level it getting harder and harder to be for Milan.


In the mean time, a new low everyday is what has been happening to us since 2008. Nothing new here, and it is expected to get worse considering attendances have been going down since 2008, our income is significantly projected downwards because of no Europe, and that can only put a further squeeze to what we can do on the market or within the squad’s wage cap. This, considering we wish to go back to playing in Europe again.

It got harder to be a Milan fan, that I think every Milanfan in this world can relate to! And I do too! To sell the club is the ONLY fast-track solution for us. But when that solution is realized, will the new owner continue along the restructuring lines or will he bring in the much needed multimillion sponsorships that will take us back to the top? Because he surely can not finance Milan's operations spontaneously.

QUOTE (Fillipo Simone @ Aug 1 2014, 02:41 PM) *
But this goes beyond spins and lies. This is a moral thing. You side with a blatant racist, this stigmatizes you and the whole club. If it's a Galliani spin, he only ads fuel to the fire - and opens himself to another round of critics.


I think Galliani is wise enough to know what his comments or stance is. Plus, he is not authorized to say anything unless he is authorized to do so by the club. Remember, what he says to the press is just the ‘mouth-piece’ of the club talking, nothing more nothing less.
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Danny
post Aug 1 2014, 01:50 PM
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Latest figures claim only 8000 sold.

Even for Sassuolo that would be dire.
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Forza Milan!
post Aug 1 2014, 03:12 PM
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QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Aug 1 2014, 02:08 PM) *
This is the thing, I shall reiterate again ‘time’. Either we sit here, like we do, everyday complaining and pointing fingers at ‘obvious’ figures at the club. Or we sit down and understand that a restructuring actually takes this long because it depends on (i) our youth taking the next step up (ii) the market opening up options for us (ie Balotelli). Two components that we, unfortunately, do not have control over.

Unfortunately, it seems we react to day to day lows. We take action by assaulting the 'obvious' figures at the club for the lows and take refuge in the 'Grande Milan'. We ignore all the figures that depict us as a club heavily under financial pressures.

In the mean time, a new low everyday is what has been happening to us since 2008. Nothing new here, and it is expected to get worse considering attendances have been going down since 2008, our income is significantly projected downwards because of no Europe, and that can only put a further squeeze to what we can do on the market or within the squad’s wage cap. This, considering we wish to go back to playing in Europe again.

I think (most) everyone understands the financial situation and what that implies. What people do not understand is the many bad choices that have made our financial situation even worse. What people do not understand is how clubs that are even more financially constrained than we are have managed to improve their squads, while we sink lower and lower.

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Aug 1 2014, 02:08 PM) *
the market opening up options for us (ie Balotelli)

There have been plenty of opportunities that we have ignored. Just looking at Roma, think Lamela (bought for 12M sold the next year for 26M), think Strootman (bought for 17M last year with ManU now offering much more). And these are just two examples, there are plenty more. But, of course, these were not provided to Galliani by Raiola, so I can see why he did not take them into consideration.

Yes, there are some positive signs (Casa Milan, maybe the youth program) but the many setbacks and bad decision make it hard for me to believe that we are following anything that vaguely resembles a winning strategy (or even a consistent strategy). More like fumbling around under a leadership that is stuck in the last century.

QUOTE (Rossoneri7 @ Aug 1 2014, 02:08 PM) *
It got harder to be a Milan fan, that I think every Milanfan in this world can relate to!

That does not apply to me. I have lived through much, much worse and stayed a loyal Milan fan.
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Danny
post Aug 1 2014, 03:22 PM
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QUOTE (Forza Milan! @ Aug 1 2014, 02:12 PM) *
That does not apply to me. I have lived through much, much worse and stayed a loyal Milan fan.


Ditto. Rangers got illegally turfed out the top league in Scotland and my support never wavered. If Milan got relegated or worse, I'm going nowhere.
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