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Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 24 2014, 07:10 PM

MoM goes to Rami IMO. Very good showing, if this wasn't just a happy coincidence, we should think of combining him and Abate as our main fullbacks. IMO Mexes and MDS were good as well, Lopez especially. Zapata made a slightly less convincing appearance.

Flop was between Muntari and SES for obvious reasons. Han compared Stephans miss with Icardi's, but it wasn't quite the same. Still, my pick is Muntari.

Posted by: Danny Nov 24 2014, 09:07 PM

Rami and Torres.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 24 2014, 09:18 PM

Rami and Muntari, closely followed by Torres.

Posted by: William405 Nov 25 2014, 05:20 AM

Exactly the same.

Posted by: William405 Nov 25 2014, 05:24 AM

I don't think it's right blaming SES for the miss! He worked hard, and did contribute to the goal. It was a bad miss, yes. But, not the end of the world. I love that Inzaghi is placing his faith in him, I really think he will get his scoring boots on again.

Agreed about the other points.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 25 2014, 12:15 PM

We would have won the derby if SES hadn't missed that. You could say SES directly cost us two points.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 25 2014, 12:24 PM

He's a striker. Working hard comes as a nice bonus, but the main occupation remains scoring goals and creating chances. He looked stale on one or two occasions where he could have scored or at least strech Handanović a bit. But the miss he made was inexcusable, like X-O said, we could have won.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 25 2014, 03:29 PM

Poli missed a great chance as well at the death, and had Icardi not ruined the chance Muntari set up for him on a silver platter we would be talking about a completely different game.

These things happen, players miss chances all the time, it's clear his confidence is not 100% back after scoring against Samp

Posted by: acid911 Nov 25 2014, 04:13 PM

We could have won if the sucker had the sense to pass the ball to Honda. In the closing few minutes, when the Japanese was open on goal, but instead the Pharoah chose to take a stupid shot. Apart from a small period of a few months when Ibra left, he has done nothing.

Sure, the backtrack and hustle and bustle help, but his job is to score. Or at the very least, create.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 25 2014, 04:57 PM

Poli's chance was completely different though. Firstly, SES is a striker. Secondly, he had a one on one with Handanovič. No excuse there, while Poli was in a midst of a box jungle, it was only the deflection that saved Inter.



Sucker? A bit too harsh, but I agree, yes. We expect more.

Posted by: acid911 Nov 25 2014, 05:06 PM

We expect more, because his heart is not where it should be. I'm not doubting his dedication, but it's not matched by the needed attitude. Sure the environment at the club is barely ideal, couldn't be worse, actually, for a player like him. When he most needed an experienced coach to take him under his wings and develop.

But really, at least with a guy like Pato one knew he would give his best during a match. Stephen, to me, appears like someone that got a bit carried away by the fame. It's got to his head, I'm afraid. A striker, a forward, should know when to be selfish and when to be selfless. You know you're out of form, at least give an open pass.

I haven't seen anything apart from that purple patch for a few months. And that probably had got more to do with the fact that Ibra had left, and there was a void to fill, someone had to step up, he did. For a while. I only saw a little of the Pharoah when he was playing in Serie B, but at least there he concentrated on the game.

The only memory I have of this one is Honda stretching his hands telling him that he should have passed.

Posted by: acid911 Nov 25 2014, 05:14 PM

Still, that's not to say that I'm discount him totally. I've stood behind others till the end, as long as they had their head in the game and give it their all. Plenty of players like this at Milan. Let's just hope SES comes out good, I thought if any coach could do it, it would be Inzaghi.

Right now he's barely a 15m player, not the 45m that we were reportedly offered by City, was it? Keep on like this, and his stock could fall further. This is the phase where he has to develop his game, and he's doing zero, zilch when it comes to this. His dribbling and decision making is as week as it could be.

And what irks me is that he's doing nothing to improve these two (important) aspects.

Posted by: acid911 Nov 25 2014, 05:19 PM

By the way, I'll vote while I'm here. And saw the match in full.

Mexès top, he was making clean clearances at the back like crazy.
Muntari flop, destroyed several chances we had at attack by his back passing.

Agree with most of the assessments above, though. Good showings from Rami, DeScig, and Lopez. And the usual mess from Essien and Torres. But on the whole, this was one of the weaker derbies I've seen, with neither team asserting itself on the pitch for a sustained period of time. Just a total no show from both Milan squads.

Posted by: William405 Nov 25 2014, 06:24 PM

What? What? Mexes top??Muntari flop?? Danny will have a stroke when he sees this.

Posted by: William405 Nov 25 2014, 06:26 PM

Well yeah, can't disagree with that. Hopefully, the best of him is yet to come.

Posted by: acid911 Nov 25 2014, 06:30 PM

Ah, no, he's a chum of mine. But really, I did not see anyone have more impact in the team than him (Rami came close, though) in how he marshaled the defense. And as for Muntari, it was a coin flip between him and Essien, in how they broke up play and ensured that the ball rarely left out midfield.

In fact, now that you mention it Essien deserved the flop tag more, on terms of performance. Muntari only edged him in how he behaved on the pitch and the fact that he's a tad bit younger. Do they have their uses? Yeah, but starting matches is not one of them, and hopefully with a full strength squad, we see less of these two gentlemen.

Posted by: acid911 Nov 25 2014, 06:31 PM

Our midfield, I meant to say.

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 25 2014, 06:54 PM

If SES was an Inter player, we'd be talking about how much of a joke he is.

Posted by: acid911 Nov 25 2014, 07:06 PM

Exactly, and in Football Manager 2015 he's listed as our most valuable asset, valued at 15m, the face of the club. Well, let's give him a month or so to find form, and then ask him to step up his game. Because right now, he adds little to the team, very little.

Posted by: William405 Nov 25 2014, 09:01 PM

Yeah, both were giving away balls in horrible places as we've accustomed to. I would resist giving Essien the flop only for his play on the goal.

I think Mexes had a really good game too. This is the first time I've felt our defense is somewhat secure. Might have to do with Inter sucking too, though.

Posted by: acid911 Nov 25 2014, 09:34 PM

True man, we've been accustomed to this style of play ever since these two showed up. At least when Seedorf was here playing he'd stick with the ball and move his butt forward. These two just seek out the nearest individual and pass the ball back. Nothing kills our game more than this. Nothing.


Exactly, and that's why he's playing I guess, regularly. I don't know, maybe he'll be shipped out soon, or opt to leave in the winter or summer window. But as long as Mexes is here, he should be starting. Unless he has a major dip in form, which I've not seen from him like ever. That's the sign of good players.

He's not great, and prone to embarrassing moments here and there. But he's the best we've got. There's a reason whey he's on 4m a season, because he has experience and the skills to start for a club like ours. Only if Silva and Nesta were still on, then he'd be warming the bench. And that's logical.

Let's hope the somewhat secure feeling about our defense is not a one off, though. We need stability!

Posted by: Danny Nov 26 2014, 12:23 AM

Acid's ok. He could compose a Mexes love song and call Muntari a retard and I'd forgive him

Posted by: Danny Nov 26 2014, 12:25 AM

PS he's spot on about SES. Talk about losing patience with him.

Almost four years we've waited for this guy to bloom into the Club's big star, and still f*ck all.

Do we want to just wait till he retires then say 'oh well'?

Posted by: acid911 Nov 26 2014, 12:41 AM

I'd never call Muntari a retard. Now about that Mexes love song, though...


Agreed. This is the season, though. If he can't get back to at least providing regular glimpses of what he was billed, and keeps up with his current shenanigans, then that's it for a lot of fans, I believe. I want him to come good, but he's slid into his comfort zone and isn't improving his game, nor asserting himself on the pitch.

Off the pitch though, he's killing it. The kid is unfocused, and worse yet, no ones guiding him. I am yet to see any sign that he is covering up and improving upon the liabilities in his game this year.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 26 2014, 09:19 AM

You said Icardi's chance was different, but how so?

He is a striker, he went clean through on goal thanks to the amazing assist from Muntari and he flubbed it by shooting at Lopez. SES at least beat the goal keeper but hit the post.


Voted the same.


At least someone else saw what I saw with Mexes, at one point in the second half he was keeping us in with all the clearances/interceptions/tackles he pulled off

Don't agree about Essien though, he's a mediocre player nowadays sure, but Muntari is just... Can't even think of an appropriate word here. He's not only just as terrible as Essien is in general, but he makes so many errors both huge and minor niggling ones that Essien looks like freaking Modric next to him


Are you saying what a joke Icardi is? He missed a very similar chance.

Posted by: Danny Nov 26 2014, 12:54 PM

Icardi hasn't been a joke for well over 3 and a half years.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 26 2014, 03:29 PM

As much as I can't stand him, Icardi has scored 20 goals in 39 games for Inter so far. That's hardly a joke. El Shaarawy has scored 25 goals in 87 games for us, 19 of which were scored in one season alone (12/13). Yes, that's a joke for you.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 26 2014, 05:16 PM

That has nothing to do with the isolated case though. My point was that Icardi missed a very similar chance, a chance btw that would have completely changed the complexion of the game because it was so early.

I'm not defending the fact that SES has been bad over the past year, he's in a terrible rut, no arguments there. But fact is, another player DID in fact miss an equally huge chance for the other team

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 26 2014, 06:37 PM

I don't think Kurt's comment was in relation to the miss, but his overall form.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 26 2014, 06:39 PM

I think he was, because otherwise SES had a fairly solid showing if nothing spectacular and also provided the assist (which brings him to 3 for the season so far)

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 26 2014, 06:43 PM

Solid showing? Only you see this, pal. I thought he was poor, once again, and his assist is negated by that terrible miss.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 26 2014, 09:28 PM

Solid for me doesn't mean he was particularly good, but he worked hard and when he did get the ball he used it well. The miss is what it is, of course I was just as p!ssed off when he didn't take the chance, but other then that I wouldn't call his performance either good or bad (basically just like the rest of the team, Muntari and Essien aside who were just plain bad)

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 26 2014, 10:20 PM

You said "SES had a fairly solid showing if nothing spectacular", now you're saying he wasn't neither good nor bad. Which one is it?

Posted by: han2503 Nov 27 2014, 01:37 PM

I think it's both, I'm not saying he was great, but the work he did when he was involved in plays was fairly solid imo

How does this suddenly become me praising him? Or only wanting to see the good in his performance?

It was a solid showing, i.e. used the ball well, worked hard, provided the assist.

The miss was bad but again, for me it does not define the entire 90 minute performance like it does for you

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 27 2014, 01:55 PM

He always works hard in every game, it's not like he worked harder than usual against Juve. But working hard and using the ball well doesn't equal solid performance. Honda is a hard worker, but he's been crap for most of his time here. For a striker, being incisive and not wasting opportunities is crucial, and assist aside, SES barely created anything dangerous and went on missing the most absurd of goal opportunities.

Posted by: Danny Nov 27 2014, 04:09 PM

Seems that everyone on here bar Han sees SES for what he sadly is.

Let's hope he's the one who proves us wrong, but in almost 4 years, there's little sign he will.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 27 2014, 04:22 PM

Well, I don't see him as some sort of star world beater, but I do see potential in him and I also see that he works hard, for me that's important because there's nothing I hate more than seeing someone with a world of talent and wasting it away by being lazy.

So even if SES is not the most talented kid around right now, the fact that he works hard and wants to improve himself allows me to have more patience with him than some here are willing to allow

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 27 2014, 05:05 PM

I think you're just being desperate, Han. We lack a team of true stars like we did until 5-6 years ago, so you try to delude yourself into thinking that SES can be something special, just like you did with Pato and Balotelli.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 27 2014, 05:22 PM

I disagree. I don't think Han showed any signs of delusion. Having faith in Pato, Balo or SES firstly isn't the same and secondly isn't delusional on a general level.

Balotelli and Pato all had talent - this was indisputable. They showed they are great individuals, they can make the extra goal and pull out the team with their individual strength. Both had mental problems alla Adriano and turned out badly (even thought there is still time to turn this around) - but never was this faith in them misplaced, at least IMO. The talent was there, the potential, no real limitation: just mental issues and (in Pato's case) injuries that made their boom impossible. But putting faith in such players is by no means deluded or extra optimistic. It's a viable as saying "he sucks" just so you can shout "I told you so" later.

SES? He needs to prove himself. Surely. But it's delusional to whine about him of call him names at this point as well. The guy never had a real coach with Milan at the first place, nor did he encounter any help - like Ancelotti provided help to Pirlo in the crucial moment. He also faced a horrendous injury spell and only came out of it this season. The question is, what do we expect out of him? Do we really play to his strengths and build on him?

Posted by: acid911 Nov 27 2014, 05:28 PM

Effort. And nothing but.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 27 2014, 05:48 PM

See now this is something I think you're just saying just to do so, because he ALWAYS puts in effort, it's just that at times that effort, especially now when he's struggling, is not paying off

@ x-off, as Filippo said, having faith in players who clearly have talent is not delusions, and having faith in someone who's not as talented but works his @ss off isn't either.

I've had faith in Abate for years now, because I could see that he was working his @ss off week in week out and it's paying off.

I'm not deluded into thinking SES is some wonder kid Messi to be. He has talent, but imo, it's limited, especially since he's being played in a position that requires natural technical abilities that I don't think he possesses. But the fact that I see him busting a gut out there when he does play shows me that he's working on it and even if he's not the most naturally gifted player he doesn't give up on personal improvement.

If he doesn't come good within the next 2 to 3 years, sure you can do your "told you so dance" and I'll admit that he wasn't cut out for this, but as of yet, to see people judging him so harshly just does not sit well with me, especially since most of these same people give someone like Muntari their seal of approval each week no matter how horrid he truly is

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 27 2014, 05:57 PM

Really? But what does that mean actually? You think SES is a lazy kid who's not showing effort. How can we translate "effort" into something more concrete?

Also, who's now to blame? Pippo who failed motivating the players or the individuals who don't show enough effort?

Posted by: kurtsimonw Nov 27 2014, 06:08 PM

SES has, generally, been very poor for 2 years now. He's had maybe a handful of acceptable performances. His lack of ability/mistakes are obviously not as costly to the team as he's higher up the field. But people try to find the positives in his performances, when they'll look for the negatives in the same quality of performance for lesser liked players.

He's just bad.

Posted by: acid911 Nov 27 2014, 06:19 PM

Nah, man, the hustle and bustle that he puts up in every match is not effort. That's the minimum requirement, and while it is good to see the guy putting in the steps all the time, or always, as you put it, that's not what I meant. Flamini put this in every time he was here, and look where that took him.

What I need to see is effort and SES trying to develop his game, failing and then picking himself up, asserting himself on the pitch, enhancing his game reading skills and visions, as well as his dribbling, pace and finishing. Keep on improving as any young player should and he'll get there.

Not this limited showings, resting on his laurels and tracking back and forth. That won't get him anywhere. As I said, that is the minimum required, the least one expects from a young player with fresh spirits.


Han beat you to it, my friend, and I've answered part of your question above. Lazy he is not, but crazy he is a bit, in that he is wasting time developing his game. His skills repertoire. As of this writing, at least for me, his range and talent is lower than Balotelli, let alone Pato.

Does he have time? Oh plenty. But with this attitude, he is just going to end up being a pedestrian player. We've all seen guys like him that failed to do justice to the break they got by being lulled into a false sense of security. Injuries haven't helped, I know, but were SES developing his game, concretely, it would have shown.


In this case, I'm afraid both parties are to blame. The management more so, because they are the ones that hired Inzaghi as the coach. I mean, learning on the job? That doesn't cut it in most organizations, let alone high profile ones like this. Even if Inzaghi gets to grip with the coaching side of it, he'll falter.

He'll falter with man management, growth of young players, maybe even carving out a system for himself. And for the record, I don't think he's got his hands on the coaching bit, not in these first few months of the season. In terms of coaching, we get a fat F, actually, nothing has changed from the Allegri days. Nothing much.

The Leonardo and Seedorf days were different, though. The former brought in the spirit, without much tactical knowhow, and the other was at least tying for a system before he was cut short. Inzaghi has failed with both here, he's just striding along week to week.

As for the individuals, well, to be honest, most of our players deserve a good punch to the guts. At least one. They're just in it for the dough, and are not doing our shirt justice, or giving it the respect it deserves. But when the whole system is rotten to the core, from the very top, what can you say? Right, right?

Once again, the fix has to come from the top, SES is just a pawn. Who is not developing one bit. Pity.

Posted by: acid911 Nov 27 2014, 06:22 PM

And he likes it. In his position, someone else that was serious about improving, would have shown some signs of learning and trying something. It would be evident from his interviews, or his displays on the pitch. Not the carelessness that I see from SES, save for his backtracking and helping the team.

But for someone that is termed a key figure, a young talent, he does not bring it. Does not bring it at all.

Posted by: X-Offender Nov 27 2014, 06:47 PM

It's not the same. I had faith in Balotelli. I had faith in Pato. Heck, I loved Pato, but an eventual time came when these players simply could not offer what was initially expected of them. Pato, because his injuries destroyed him, and Balotelli because of his attitude.

I could no longer support Pato in his last couple of years with us. Between recurring injuries and shitty performances, it was plain as day that his talent had gone to waste. But I vividly remember Han defending him, even when we were about to sell him to PSG and buy Tevez in exchange (a deal I was so desperate about), he was against it, and we ended up paying the consequences of that deal not going through. Same with Balotelli. Go a few months back and you'll see Han being against his sale.

Maybe I jumped the gun there saying he's deluding himself, but first Pato, then Balotelli, now SES. It's becoming a recurring trend. Having faith and defending potential "prospects" who lack the talent to justify it.



Abate has always performed. I think we both can agree on this. Thing is, as I mentioned above, that you overrate SES beyond what he's capable of offering. I know you don't consider him the next Messi, but every time he doesn't deliver you still find excuses to defend him. Just because he busts his gut out doesn't mean he's performing. For a winger, he can't dribble. For a striker, he's not accurate. He has a decent touch to the ball, and good passing skills, but that's barely sufficient to become a good and reliable player.

Posted by: Danny Nov 28 2014, 03:02 AM

This has turned into an excellent debate.

The Pato and Balotelli example is an intriguing one. Pato showed signs of being a world beater, in a VERY STRONG MILAN TEAM, lest we forget. It all went horribly wrong down to his bad decisions both on and off the pitch, and his general lack of intelligence. However, he shone in a Milan team blessed with top-class players and that's not easy to do if you're not a great player.

Balotelli also shone briefly in a declining Milan team, with 6 months from January last year till the summer, which were basically the best of his career. However since summer 2013 he has been absolutely ghastly, and his talent horribly over rated. A declining but still reasonable Milan helped him look good, and a terrible Milan made him look as he really is - and the same has happened at Liverpool. Talent shines everywhere, even during difficult patches. He's just not very good.

And then we come to SES. We've had him for 4 years - no player in the modern game has been cut the level of slack he has, all because he's young, Italian, has a cool haircut, has a culty-esque following from fans desperate for a hero, and because of 4 excellent months in 2012 where he looked outstanding. However it's also easy to mislead people and say 'he carried Milan' during that time when in fact he came nowhere near it. He scored a few goals and we won the odd match but we were still a midtable team till that 2-2 result in Naples and we went on an excellent run as a whole unit. Had the boy 'carried' us he'd have done what Suarez did at Liverpool last season, or Ibra does for every team he plays for - put us in at least the top 3. That's 'carrying'. But he didn't - we were mediocre till that trip to Naples turned things round that season, and while he scored 2 in that match, it was also the end of his 'carrying' us as the team as a whole drastically improved.

So here we are, literally two years later - and he has been quite simply a shambles. Yet, as I say, a bizarre amount of leeway is given to him by so many supporters.

As for Han's Abate example, not hard to rate a player who has clearly been one of the world's better RB's ever since he replaced Cafu. He isn't Cafu, of course, but only truly blind individuals would ever have claimed he was anything other than good. He's been in especially good form this season, but it's also a bit wide of the mark to have 'stuck by him'. Easy to do that when a player is plainly a good player.

Posted by: acid911 Nov 28 2014, 04:30 AM

Summed it up. Also totally agreed on the Pato and Balotelli bit, particularly Pato.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 28 2014, 08:08 PM

I'm not going to get into the other points you made as I completely don't agree about SES and it's pointless to get into that particular debate

But this here I just had to comment on. Maybe you're also a person who's always rated Abate, but take a general look around any Milan forum and you'll know that before this season they were hoping he would leave and we'd sign that Croatian dude that ended up at Sassuolo (IRRC his name is Vrslajko or something like that).

People wanted to punt him over to CSKA when they wanted him the summer before this one.

And I was defending him namely to kurt and Fillipo on this very same forum just a few months ago as well

Don't kid yourself, Abate has been underrated/overlooked by many Milan fans over the years and has been called average/bad for many years now. If they're not criticising his defending, they're criticising his crossing or his positioning. It's only this season where people have finally shut up about him

Posted by: Danny Nov 28 2014, 11:24 PM

I'm not kidding myself. He's never been heavily criticised by any Rossoneri I've known since he broke through. Ok, they never rated him as highly as he is now, but it was never like 'aw naw, Abate starts AGAIN?!'. He was just appreciated as a solid RB and no more, while he himself is now in sparkling form. Remember he's been more or less Italy's first-choice RB for 3 years. That's not a sudden escalation - he proved himself from 2009 then earned his place in the national side thereafter.

Ha, had giggle at your point re: SES - isn't that hypocrisy? Dare I say a word against Mexes or a word pro-Muntari and you're all over me, and you tell me off when I don't want to argue about it again. And now you're the one pre-emptying the end of any debate re: SES with my line

Posted by: Danny Nov 28 2014, 11:26 PM

You might want to quote anyone on here who did?



They're both nuts

Posted by: acid911 Nov 29 2014, 12:21 AM

Well, at least a match poll thread went past 50 posts. I'm going to name Mexès and Muntari top and flop every match from now on, regardless whether they play or not. For the sake of action!

Posted by: han2503 Nov 29 2014, 10:29 AM

Maybe on this particular forum people have been more demure in how they criticise Abate, just go the the R&B forum or xtratime when you have a chance and look at some of the comments made about him before this season, you'd think some of my Muntari criticism was mellow compared to how they talked about him

I'm not getting into the SES thing because I know how it will end with you and me, so I don't think it's worth it.

You think he's bad and won't amount to anything, I don't. In this case the argument is more subjective as we're both basing this all on what we think will happen in the future.

With Muntari it's completely different, we're not talking about someone who might finally actually be half decent in the future, we're talking about someone who repeats the same sh!t each week and people still find it in them to somehow overlook it and defend his place in the team while with SES or even DS people are jumping on their backs the minute they have dips in form.


I remember we were offered something like 10m for him and people were more than willing to see him go if we got that money. I'm not even going to try to search for these quotes as they're buried in the massive transfer thread of that particular summer

Posted by: Danny Nov 29 2014, 04:08 PM

People were willing to take £10M including me as Seedorf refused to play him, so we gave up on him ever being selected and resigned to MDS on the right and whoever on the left. And 'might as well get money for Abate while we're at it' type thing.

Re: R&B etc I've never used any of the big Milan boards - too full of trolls, so I can only go by on what I've seen here, DM, and MM.

One last thing, you know how SES will go with you and I so why do you bother with Mexes and Muntari? It's not like they're any different

Posted by: han2503 Nov 29 2014, 05:16 PM

No, this was during the summer when Seedorf wasn't even Milan coach, Allegri was and Abate has always been a starter under Allegri

Be that as it may about the boards, on these small forums you only have a very small pool of people to really get a general opinion off of. With the bigger boards, yeah you have douchey people, but you do get a much larger number of people, thus a clearer image of what the general opinion is

As for Mexes/Muntari re: SES. I do think it's a completely different situation, because as I explained above, we're mostly trying to guess at what SES could do in the future imo, he's obviously not the finished product and whether he turns into a mediocre product or a great one is all up in the air, and any opinion on that is just guess work on our parts

However, with Mexes and Muntari things are much more black and white, at least for me they are.

With SES for example, I can more than agree that he just hasn't been good this past season and a half, he's struggling this season and spent nearly the entirety of the last one out injured. It's not what we expected after he broke through the first team 2 years ago. However I don't agree with how some of you guys keep getting on his back, and this started while he was out injured last season and people started getting p!ssed off at him because of the hair cut and the endorsement work he was doing.

Posted by: Danny Nov 30 2014, 02:49 AM

Won't lie, I ain't sure I remember that one. Can't find any references to it. The only one I can remember was PSG for £10M.



Meh. I prefer a smaller sample of people whose views can be taken reasonably seriously, rather than a million trolls saying cr*p like sh*tlegri.



Not the finished product? He's 22 and by his age, and I hate to use this example, Balo knew what he was. Zlatan knew who/what he was. The great players know by very early 20s the kind of player they are and what they are. Iturbe is barely 21 and has excelled at Roma since he joined. He was great at HV and I made a huge mistake not wanting him. They've been careful not to overuse him but he's been excellent.

So don't use the age excuse which you're implying at by saying he's not the finished product. It's a cop out and you know it.



Not for me. I rate both on what I believe I see per match. If Mexes plays what I believe is a good match I say so. If Muntari stinks I say so. You don't seem able to criticise Mexes or praise Muntari.



No, I gave up on him by the end of 2012/2013. He was mince between that November and the following summer and that was enough of a flat patch to warrant skepticism. That we're sitting here November 2014 and he's still sh*t suggests he is never going to be the player you really want him to be.

Why shouldn't we get on his back? 24 months of poor displays and you expect him to be given room? Not a chance. If he shows up and plays a stormer my God I'll give him credit. But I am not going to sit here giving him chances after chances after yet more failures.

Posted by: han2503 Nov 30 2014, 10:06 AM

This was an offer CSKA made, before he switched over to Raiola, his previous agent also said that the move was close to being completed but fell through


Even if they are trolls, you can easily see who they value as players and who they don't. I'm not someone who frequents those forums either, just to be clear, but I do look into it from time to time to see what the general feel on X, Y or Z is


Zlatan at 22 was not the finished product, what do you mean he knew what he was? As in he knew he was a striker? Balo at 22 wasn't the finished product and he certainly isn't a finished product now. Heck, Cristiano wasn't a finished product by that age. Very few players reach that level at such a young age (ex: Messi, original Ronaldo)

If you're talking about the fact that SES is played as a winger, that's not really his fault, he hasn't had any proper coaching since he cam to Milan, the only stable coaching figure he had was Allegri. For me, he's not a winger, he's a striker, but the fact that he hasn't been allowed to even try playing in that position isn't his fault.


Name one game where Muntari was actually good and you could say with a straight face "great performance"

And Mexes has only played twice so far this season and both times you were sure he'd be diabolical, yet he wasn't. He was good vs Samp and was one of our best players against Inter.


This all goes back to the points I made above with regards to his age or his "identity" as a player.

Posted by: Fillipo Simone Nov 30 2014, 11:43 PM

Thing is, out of those 2 years, half and more was spent being injured or recuperating. All I wanted to say is, let's cut him some slack. He's one of the more talented and younger players we have around him, so I won't shout "he's just bad" yet. For that we have Muntari


Where? I never liked Flamini, but the guy was plagued with injuries and as soon as he managed to escape the vicious cycle he turned up for Milan and played actually good. So what's the example here? I really think we made a mistake by letting him go: he wasn't anything special and had a big salary, but he'd be surely better then both Essien and Muntari.


Yeah well, let's give him time, shall we? I don't get why you fall into these fix and petrified judgments already?



Now you see, I think people just like to construct this attitude problem. Where exactly did SES show attitude problems and where does his mentality offers especially negative examples? People don't like his hair: I agree. But what did he do other then that? Act in some commercials? Milan practically invented the thing with footballers starring.



Yes, it is a pattern. A pattern that shows patience and open-mindness. Nothing more, and certainly nothing negative there.